The Lethal Weapon Thread

[Silver Nemesis]

Mel Gibson has confirmed he's directing Lethal Weapon 5. Speaking at a recent event in London, he said:

"The man who directed all the Lethal films, Richard Donner, he was a big guy. He was developing the screenplay and he got pretty far along with it. And he said to me one day, 'Listen kid, if I kick the bucket you will do it.' And I said: 'Shut up.' But he did indeed pass away. But he did ask me to do it and at the time I didn't say anything. He said it to his wife and to the studio and the producer. So I will be directing the fifth one."

https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/bizarre/16729949/mel-gibson-direct-lethal-weapon-5/

I assumed this franchise had died with Donner. But with Mel taking the reins, LW5 stands a credible chance of being decent. I know I'm always arguing that old film and TV franchises should be allowed to rest in peace, but this is one of those rare exceptions where I'm open to the possibility of a continuation. This isn't some young Hollywood hack reviving an IP he/she didn't create just so they can churn out an unimaginative nostalgia-porn retread or appropriate it as a platform for their political views. This is Mel and Danny following Donner's original plan for the final chapter (one rumoured title is Lethal Finale), and with Gibson directing there's no chance of it being woke. This is the old guard wanting to finish what they started on a dignified note. In that sense, it has less in common with The Force Awakens or Indiana Jones 5 than it does with Rocky Balboa (2006) and Rambo (2008). If they get Russo and Pesci back, it might just work.

What does everyone else think?

[thecolorsblend]

If it was literally any other director, I'd already be tuned out.

But you said it about Gibson. It probably won't be too woke.

One of the things the original franchise did amazingly well was keeping the same basic cast for the Murtaugh family. As a result, you watched them grow up, graduate, get married, have children, etc. If there's to be another one of these movies, I want that to continue. Maybe show Rianne's child from LW4 having a baby or something. Whatever. But the Murtaughs are a major through line in those movies and I want all of them to come back and carry on the tradition, if possible.

Russo is another big part of those movies. Riggs was still pretty nuts in LW2 but she had softened a lot of his rough edges by LW4. That also needs to continue. She was always the only character who could put Riggs in his place and I'd miss Russo dearly if she wasn't in the next movie.

As to Riggs and Murtaugh themselves, that's a bit harder. Roger was verging on retirement all through those movies. So, maybe he has retired and Riggs, God help us all, has become the new captain? Maybe Butters is his lieutenant?

[The Laughing Fish]

If it was literally any other director, I'd already be tuned out.

But you said it about Gibson. It probably won't be too woke.

I thought Lethal Weapon 4 ended perfectly as it did, right to the sentimental end credits. It was a great signing off for Riggs and Murtaugh, as well as for the cast and crew that worked on the entire franchise. Even if Donner were still alive today, I just don't see the need to do a fifth installment.

But if you think otherwise, I'm more than happy to read your perspective.

[The Dark Knight]

What does everyone else think?

First and foremost I'm happy for Mr Gibson. He's too much of a talent to be wasted in the industry. He's no joke as a director, as Apocalypo and The Passion of The Christ demonstrate. What's also pleasing is that Mr Gibson is starring in a John Wick spinoff, which I'll also go and see. People can what they want about the guy, but he has a lot of passion for whatever material he's tackling and on screen charisma. It's laughable how his critics attack him as a disgrace of a human being when he's nowhere near being the worst of Hollyweird.

[thecolorsblend]

As a general thing, one concern I have is fight scenes.

The LW series has usually had some pretty good fight choreography for Gibson. The showdown between Riggs and Mr. Joshua in the first LW remains one of my favorite onscreen fight scenes.

But Gibson is no spring chicken. And I have to wonder how the fight choreography stuff will work in this movie.

[Silver Nemesis]

As a general thing, one concern I have is fight scenes.

The LW series has usually had some pretty good fight choreography for Gibson. The showdown between Riggs and Mr. Joshua in the first LW remains one of my favorite onscreen fight scenes.

But Gibson is no spring chicken. And I have to wonder how the fight choreography stuff will work in this movie.

The age factor is probably the biggest hurdle this movie's facing, but I assume it's not something they'll shy away from addressing in the script. The age of the characters was always a running gag in the old movies anyway. "I'm getting too old for this s---." I've read various rumours about the plot, and some suggest it will take place after Riggs and Murtaugh are retired. That would be a departure from the earlier films, but it would also allow them to move things forward and avoid a simple retread.

As for Gibson's physical state, I'm not too worried about that. I mentioned in another thread that Mel had begun training in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu with Rorion Gracie back in 1987. Rorion also appeared in LW3.

Here's a cool behind-the-scenes picture showing Gibson rehearsing his LW1 fight scene with Busey.

Gibson's still training in BJJ today, only now he's studying with the Machado Family. 

He moved pretty well during his fight scene against Stallone in The Expendables III (2014).

He's also gotten seriously jacked in recent years.

Here's a more recent picture taken last year with his personal trainer. He's in amazing shape for a guy in his mid sixties.

I suppose the age issue varies from one person to the next. Some guys are physically burnt out by time they reach 30, while others stay in great shape well into their old age. If an actor falls into the latter category, and still presents a believable physical threat when he's in his fifties or sixties, then audiences will usually still accept him as an action hero. For example, a 65-year-old Sean Connery in The Rock (1996). Even then though, there are limits.

Take Harrison Ford. He's in very good shape for a man who's pushing 80, but he's still far too old to be playing Indiana Jones at this point. As someone who loves the classic IJ trilogy, it pains me to see him being hauled out for Kathleen Kennedy's latest misfire just so they can kill him off and 'pass the torch' to his female successor. He was already 64 during the filming of Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, and that was almost fifteen years ago! Most fans would prefer to remember Indy as a young adventurer rather than a septuagenarian victim of cynical feminist deconstruction. There's something very appealing about seeing aging heroes back in action (e.g. The Dark Knight Returns), but this is just embarrassing.

I'm not saying all this to make fun of Ford. I just don't want to see him and the character degraded in such a way that will leave a permanent stain on their legacies.

Anyway, I digress. The point I was getting at is that middle age occurs at different times for different people. For guys who smoke and drink too much and don't take care of themselves, middle age can begin in their thirties and end by time they turn 50. In Gibson's case, I'd say he's managed to protract his middle age into his mid sixties. Provided they shoot the movie fairly soon, and don't drag the preproduction out for another decade, then I think he should be ok to handle the action scenes.

Regarding the fight choreography, I expect there'll be fewer flashy kicks and a stronger emphasis on grappling. We'll see plenty of brutal head butts mixed with armbars, chokeholds and other clinch fighting techniques. Riggs was already slowing down in LW4, and that aging process will be even more apparent in LW5. He'll still have his strength, skill and experience, but he'll be compromised in terms of speed, stamina and durability. The responsibilities of being a husband and father will also mean he's less likely to take crazy risks that his younger self would have indulged.

In terms of what we can expect from Mel as a director, I predict the following:

•   LW5 won't be watered down for a PG-13 rating like some of the Die Hard and Terminator sequels – it'll be R-rated.
•   It'll be apolitical and non-woke, which means everyone should be able to enjoy it.
•   There won't be an overabundance of CGI, and the action will rely on real stunts and practical effects.

Maybe it'll turn out to be another unnecessary sequel. But for now I'm cautiously optimistic to see how it develops.

[The Dark Knight]

Take Harrison Ford. He's in very good shape for a man who's pushing 80, but he's still far too old to be playing Indiana Jones at this point. As someone who loves the classic IJ trilogy, it pains me to see him being hauled out for Kathleen Kennedy's latest misfire just so they can kill him off and 'pass the torch' to his female successor. He was already 64 during the filming of Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, and that was almost fifteen years ago! Most fans would prefer to remember Indy as a young adventurer rather than a septuagenarian victim of cynical feminist deconstruction. There's something very appealing about seeing aging heroes back in action (e.g. The Dark Knight Returns), but this is just embarrassing.

The first three Indiana Jones films are perfect escapist entertainment, in the spirit of 1885's King Solomon's Mines. What I find alarming is the possibility Kingdom of the Crystal Skull may actually end up looking respectable against what's coming with the fifth movie. It's bad enough if he 'passes the torch' to a female successor, but if they actually kill him that's an even bigger barstardizarion of the franchise. At least Kingdom of the Crystal Skull had a decent ending - picking up the hat and keeping the younger upstart in their place. Reversing that spirit would be very disappointing. The Kennedy era isn't the true continuation of these iconic franchises. They're just movies that have the branding, and the actors, but lack the heart and soul.

[Silver Nemesis]

I ought to clarify that the plot points about Indy dying and Phoebe Waller-Bridge's character taking over have not been confirmed. A while ago there were some plot leaks detailing a storyline involving time travel that would end with Indy's death and his female sidekick figuratively assuming his mantle. Recent set pics seem to have confirmed the inclusion of the time travel element (unless the scenes featuring Roman soldiers are just flashbacks), and that – combined with Kathleen Kennedy's penchant for killing off beloved heroes for cheap emotional effect – would indicate that the leaks might be accurate. Of course it's possible Lucasfilm may alter the ending in response to the negative reaction those leaks elicited, and it's also possible that the plot point about Indy dying was false to begin with. I don't really care either way at this point, since I have no interest in seeing the film. But a part of me hopes all the worst rumours are true just so the fans can enjoy watching the new movie crash and burn.

Spielberg and Lucas walked away from Indiana Jones 5. The character was birthed from their creative union back when they were both still in their prime, and neither of them wants anything to do with this latest film. As far as I'm aware, neither of them has given it their blessing either. That tells us a lot.

The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles portrayed old Indy as being still alive in the 1990s.

If the new film kills him off before then, then it'll create a contradiction in the timeline. Ultimately all I need from Indiana Jones in the classic trilogy. But if I had to choose a continuation, I'd go with The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles. I actually quite like that series and have fond memories of watching it when it first aired. A lot of the episodes were dull and forgettable, but there were some really good ones too. I'll say more about that if we ever have an Indiana Jones thread (which is long overdue). The only thing Indy 5 has going for it in terms of legitimising its canonicity is Ford's involvement. But Ford also appeared in the Young Indy series.

Young Indy also had Lucas's involvement, and the events of the episode 'Spring Break Adventure' were directly referenced by Indy in Kingdom of the Crystal Skull when he recounts meeting Pancho Villa. That gives The Young Indy Chronicles a higher degree of canonicity in my book. So I'll just regard Indy 5 as corporate fan fiction like the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy.