Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 2 (2017)

[Catwoman]

THERE IS NO f***ING CONTEXT IN WHICH JOKES ABOUT SEXUAL ACTS WITH CHILDREN ARE OKAY

Congratulations, you're the most morally outraged person here. We're all highly impressed with your ability to lose all control of yourself. Personally, I'm not really all that interested in joining in with your signalling and self-righteousness though. If he broke the law, he should be arrested. It's no more than he deserves.

Hilarious. Because feeling like tweets about sex acts with kids are deplorable is moral grandstanding and self righteous. Right. Got it.

And I'm plenty in control, thank you. The capital letters were for emphasis of a point that I thought was common sense, but it apparently isn't. The funny part is I specifically pointed out in my post that I hoped it was behind him even though I wasn't too concerned with him losing his job at this moment. My response is to an idiot saying they might have been taken out of context. Ok, since you want to pull out the "You're morally outraged and self righteous blah blah blah" card, educate me. Explain to me what context those are okay to make. Meanwhile I'm going to go morally grandstand some more and pray that you don't have any immediate dealings with children if you think sh*t like that can be okay.

[The Dark Knight]

I wonder if Gunn still holds this belief while discussing that other idiot Roseanne?

I didn't watch one episode of the Roseanne reboot. I'm a conservative guy but it just didn't interest me. Simply 'being conservative' doesn't automatically mean I'm going to watch something religiously. In fact, I don't watch a lot of TV anyway. But did I support the aims of the show 'in spirit'? Yeah.

And lots of other people did too, judging by the ratings. But here's the rub.

I don't think Roseanne is that smart in a streetwise sense. In fact, the aftermath has shown she's pretty dumb. She made a mistake in the eyes of the network, but then kept digger the hole even deeper. Careers die so they have no choice but to embrace their crass reputation. That goes for people on the left and right.

I like John Goodman and feel sorry for him. I guess he took a risk to come back and star in this show, given how polarizing this all seems to be now. And then Roseanne blows up needlessly, getting the show axed and laughing stock? I'd be pissed.

Roseanne got ahead of herself. Some play this game better than others.

Do I think the network should've axed the show? Well, I think they're neglecting a large viewership. But that's the network's call. Same goes for Disney. This is the environment we are in now.

I'm trying to be impartial here – I hope people can respect that.

[thecolorsblend]

Hilarious. Because feeling like tweets about sex acts with kids are deplorable is moral grandstanding and self righteous. Right. Got it.

Going insane over it is moral grandstanding. And self-righteous.

And not lady-like at all, sadly.

Meanwhile I'm going to go morally grandstand some more

So I see.

and pray that you don't have any immediate dealings with children if you think sh*t like that can be okay.

Thankfully the only child I have had to deal with lately is you.

[thecolorsblend]

I didn't watch one episode of the Roseanne reboot. I'm a conservative guy but it just didn't interest me. Simply 'being conservative' doesn't automatically mean I'm going to watch something religiously. In fact, I don't watch a lot of TV anyway. But did I support the aims of the show 'in spirit'? Yeah.

And lots of other people did too, judging by the ratings. But here's the rub.

I don't think Roseanne is that smart in a streetwise sense. In fact, the aftermath has shown she's pretty dumb. She made a mistake in the eyes of the network, but then kept digger the hole even deeper. Careers die so they have no choice but to embrace their crass reputation. That goes for people on the left and right.

I like John Goodman and feel sorry for him. I guess he took a risk to come back and star in this show, given how polarizing this all seems to be now. And then Roseanne blows up needlessly, getting the show axed and laughing stock? I'd be pissed.

Roseanne got ahead of herself. Some play this game better than others.

Do I think the network should've axed the show? Well, I think they're neglecting a large viewership. But that's the network's call. Same goes for Disney. This is the environment we are in now.

I'm trying to be impartial here – I hope people can respect that.

My sense of the show is that it's satire about conservatives. I get that people enjoyed it. But satire is satire. When King Of The Hill was big on TV, I knew people who loved it... which I found exasperating. "This show is about Texans. You're a Texan. They're making fun of you. You do realize that, right?"

Still, the Roseanne cancellation feels different. Viewers of that show didn't interpret the cancellation as Roseanne's punishment. Rather, they viewed it as silencing one of the few nominally conservative shows on TV. It doesn't matter if they're right or if they're wrong. That's how they saw the situation.

Honestly, I love all of this. Hollywood is so full of SJW's or even full-on communists that when they start eating each other, they're thinning their own ranks. I have no pity for them and I hope the unearthed tweets keep coming and more careers get ruined. It's better entertainment than most of what's on TV these days anyway.

[The Laughing Fish]

Moving away from the emotionally unstable wing of this discussion, it sounds like TDK has read more of the guy's tweets than I have. If there's a trend there, maybe the guy has issues. And, again, if he's breaking the law, he needs to get arrested.

As said, like you, I don't have a horse in this race. It's funny though. The feral left (who make taking offence an artform) don't like it when their own standards are used against them. People are hounded over historical incidents all the time, even words and not actions. The year of these tweets shouldn't matter by those standards. A tweet made in 2009 means he was 41 years old. 10,000 of these pedophile flavored posts were made. If he said sorry he also should have gone back and deleted them, or more simply, deleted his account to start fresh. But he didn't. Disney has a policy and that policy was enforced. Simple.

Gunn was known for making making homophobic, sexist jokes on his blog, which he later apologised for doing so shortly after he got the GOTG gig (how convenient). So obviously, Disney were aware that he had been capable of some form of misconduct. Whether or not they knew about his more obscene comments on social media is another matter. But then again, it wouldn't surprise me if they were, and happily looked the other way as long as it didn't draw them negative attention. This is Hollywood, after all. Now it appears they're desperately trying to save face from this PR debacle.

Anyway, in one of Gunn's Twitter exchanges, he shared a very crude joke with somebody by the name of Huston Huddleston, who only a month ago pleaded guilty for possessing child pornography.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/james-gunns-firing-from-guardians-of-the-galaxy-vol-3-is-a-disastrous-win-for-right-wing-mobs
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/06/man-who-saved-ncc-1701-d-touring-bridge-pleads-guilty-to-child-porn-charge/

Now, I don't think getting in touch with somebody who is about to be a registered child sex offender makes Gunn a pedophile without a shred of doubt. But he has brought that suspicion upon himself because of his pathetic taste for "comedy". Besides, if you're dumb enough to write your worst posts in the public sphere, let alone making yourself open to scrutiny, you only have yourself to blame.

Finally, it's absolutely pitiful there are people trying defend him like Dave Bautista and Selma Blair, as well as those getting together a petition demanding him to get rehired. That includes the pathetic bloggers, like this deadbeat called Linsday Ellis, who I found on Twitter. Her excuses for Gunn's conduct are pathetic, as is the desperate hashtag #RehireJamesGunn. But considering she accuses Zack Snyder of being a "sexist" and "hating his mother" because she hated the way women are apparently mistreated in his films makes me believe her perception is all screwed up. I thought the way Mantis was depicted in the sequel - not only as a character but even the way she was treated by Drax - was far worse than anything Snyder had done to a female. "But Gunn has grown as a person over a decade in the last decade, we all have!" she says. Right, even though he didn't bother to delete his tweets until the sh*t had hit the fan. And frankly, Ellis should take a good hard look at herself in the mirror, because when fans mentioned that Snyder's mother had passed away years ago, all she could say was "How was I meant to know?!". Sounds like she has a lot of growing up to do. To be fair though, I guess I should go easy on her, she did get arrested last year for her violent public drunkenness, so she's battling a lot of demons. Or maybe she's just a horrible person...

I got a little carried away there, but I'll leave it at that.

[johnnygobbs]

When Selma Blair was battling with whether to out and shame the filmmaker, James Toback, who sexually assaulted her some years ago, it was her friend, James Gunn, that helped her and gave her the strength to speak out about Toback, a genuine sexual predator and abuser (as opposed to someone who merely makes foolish jokes on Twitter).  Of course she is going to stand by her friend.

And good on her for initiating this Change petition.  What is so silly about standing by a friend who spoke out against a sexual predator, and is moreover a great filmmaker who many fans of the Guardians of the Galaxy films would like to see finish his franchise.  Unlike many other comic-book movie directors, Gunn brings genuine warmth and colour to his films, something we haven't really seen in CBMs since the days of Tim Burton's Batman films.

Also, if a woman tells you that a film is misogynist, you damn well listen to her.  It's not for men to decide what characters are and aren't sexist.  And so far the only people I've seen complain about Mantis and Gamora in the Guardians of the Galaxy films are men.  Well, to be quite honest, they know where to shove their opinions about 'sexism'.

[johnnygobbs]

What I will say is that this nonsense (the firing of James Gunn over Tweets he apologised for several years ago) wouldn't have happened at Warner Bros/DC.

Disney is notorious for going overboard in protecting its 'family friendly' image, and for keeping its filmmakers on a tight-leash.

For all the criticism levelled at the DCEU, from myself included, one has to credit WB/DC for treating its filmmakers and actors, including those like Jason Momoa who have made unfortunate comments in the past (during a "Game of Thrones" Comic Con panel a few years back Momoa joked about how he enjoyed playing Drogo because it gave him the chance to 'rape beautiful women'), like adults.  It's also interesting to note that filmmakers, like Patty Jenkins and Ava DuVernay, who fell out with Disney over creative issues and chose not to be a part of the MCU, are now making films for the DCEU, confirming a suspicion that for all its faults the DCEU is a lot more filmmaker-orientated and supportive of creative freedom than Disney.

You're allowed to make mistakes at Warner Bros/DC which is ultimately a good thing for creativity.  By contrast, Disney's overly-PC, family-conscious image means it won't accept any slight transgression or mistake on the part of its talent, unless it can be hypocritically brushed under the carpet.

[Catwoman]

What I will say is that this nonsense (the firing of James Gunn over Tweets he apologised for several years ago) wouldn't have happened at Warner Bros/DC.

Disney is notorious for going overboard in protecting its 'family friendly' image, and for keeping its filmmakers on a tight-leash.

For all the criticism levelled at the DCEU, from myself included, one has to credit WB/DC for treating its filmmakers and actors, including those like Jason Momoa who have made unfortunate comments in the past (during a "Game of Thrones" Comic Con panel a few years back Momoa joked about how he enjoyed playing Drogo because it gave him the chance to 'rape beautiful women'), like adults.  It's also interesting to note that filmmakers, like Patty Jenkins and Ava DuVernay, who fell out with Disney over creative issues and chose not to be a part of the MCU, are now making films for the DCEU, confirming a suspicion that for all its faults the DCEU is a lot more filmmaker-orientated and supportive of creative freedom than Disney.

You're allowed to make mistakes at Warner Bros/DC which is ultimately a good thing for creativity.  By contrast, Disney's overly-PC, family-conscious image means it won't accept any slight transgression or mistake on the part of its talent, unless it can be hypocritically brushed under the carpet.

I fail to see how Disney choosing to maintain a certain standard of conduct that falls in line with the "Disney image" is a bad thing. If other people (using your example, WB) want to have a longer leash, fine, but Disney has had this image since the 1930s. If they want to keep that going at the cost of personnel who threaten it in some way, that's their prerogative. I can appreciate forgiving mistakes (Lord knows I've made mine and been fortunate to have many of them forgiven) but I can also appreciate sticking to your way of doing things even if it means cutting ties with someone who's made some big contributions to the company. A far bigger example than Gunn would be John Lassater, who was "the guy" at PIxar but was shown the door for workplace misconduct. 

Hilarious. Because feeling like tweets about sex acts with kids are deplorable is moral grandstanding and self righteous. Right. Got it.

Going insane over it is moral grandstanding. And self-righteous.

And not lady-like at all, sadly.

Meanwhile I'm going to go morally grandstand some more

So I see.

and pray that you don't have any immediate dealings with children if you think sh*t like that can be okay.

Thankfully the only child I have had to deal with lately is you.

Nice misdirect. If you want to continue to harp on one use of all caps as though the entirety of my comments have been like that, have at it. I can only assume that means you're incapable of answering my question as to what context makes those kinds of jokes okay (which actually may be better for you than if you could). And if the "not lady-like at all, sadly" comment was meant to offend me, try a little harder next time. I haven't worried about being "lady-like" since I was 14 years old.

[The Laughing Fish]

I've never thought I'd reply back to johnnygobbs ever again, but I need to get this off my chest.

Gunn apologised for his Tweets years ago.  He realised they were a mistake.

When did that happen? The only time I'm aware of Gunn apologising for anything was writing an official statement to GLAAD in 2012, because he came under fire for making sexist and homophobic jokes the year before. He didn't mention anything about the rape and pedophilia comments during this time.

Source: https://hollywoodreporter.com/news/guardians-galaxy-director-james-gunn-395796

When Selma Blair was battling with whether to out and shame the filmmaker, James Toback, who sexually assaulted her some years ago, it was her friend, James Gunn, that helped her and gave her the strength to speak out about Toback

Then this makes it even worse, because the fact of the matter is he didn't even delete those awful tweets. If he had done so, I could've bought into the fans' defense that he had matured over time, and he'd definitely still be working at Marvel Studios right now. The whole world would most likely never have learned of what he had said. As I said many times before, he only has himself to blame. There is a reason why careers councilors warn people to be responsible with their social media profile nowadays, because it can hurt your job prospects. Gunn clearly doesn't understand this, the moron.

One has to wonder if his apology over his 2011 comments and helping Selma Blair was sincere, or it was a cynical ploy to protect his career. After all, there have been many people who fooled an entire community into being generous and upstanding citizens, but turned out to be complete monsters. For an extreme example, look up John Wayne Gacy. And as I've already said, Hollywood has its favourites when it comes to celebrities with dark histories, like Woody Allen and Roman Polanski. Nobody should look up to anybody in that industry as a source for moral guidance.

By the way, people who live in glasshouses shouldn't throw stones. A couple of months ago, Gunn was one of several people to accuse Jared Leto of preying on underage girls:

https://www.screengeek.net/2018/05/17/james-gunn-implies-jared-leto-is-a-pedophile/

I don't give a damn about Leto, and for all I know, the accusations could be true. But I wonder how does Gunn like it now people assume he's a pedophile, not only because of what he once wrote but because of his association with this Huston Huddleston?

(as opposed to someone who merely makes foolish jokes on Twitter).

Give me a break. This isn't like making tasteless jokes in the name of satire i.e. South Park. There was absolutely nothing funny about his f***ed up comments, especially if he implicates himself in wanting to molest children. Even by black comedy standards, the sh*t he wrote was utterly demented. To call what he wrote jokes is an insult to comedy.

Unlike many other comic-book movie directors, Gunn brings genuine warmth and colour to his films, something we haven't really seen in CBMs since the days of Tim Burton's Batman films.

Gunn isn't a visionary. The first GOTG was a good movie and definitely had heart, but the sequel, in my opinion, was overrated garbage. Making Drax into a complete and utter idiot who utters jokes about big turds wasn't funny. A backwards step from his stoic and tragic persona in the first film. His stupid quips at Mantis's expense was just dumb as making Peter Griffin abusing his daughter Meg for no reason other than to make him look like a mean-spirited jackass. It was a parody of the characters from the first film, and the jokes were much weaker and drawn out longer than necessary e.g. everything involving that Baby Groot and Rocket. Don't me get started on the forced surrogate father crap. Nothing in that film comes close to matching the genuinely emotional moments of Peter's sad backstory or Groot's heroic sacrifice.

Besides, given the questionable success of Spider-Man: Homecoming, Thor Ragnarok (which I've never seen the whole thing, but saw enough scenes to be unimpressed by) and Infinity War, the standards of making a successful MCU film are pretty low nowadays. I think the franchise will do just fine without Gunn.

Also, if a woman tells you that a film is misogynist, you damn well listen to her.  It's not for men to decide what characters are and aren't sexist.  And so far the only people I've seen complain about Mantis and Gamora in the Guardians of the Galaxy films are men.  Well, to be quite honest, they know where to shove their opinions about 'sexism'.

What a load of sanctimonious garbage. A couple of things.

First of all, you need to look for more female critics, whether they're feminist or otherwise, who found the sequel having sexist undertones. I don't care too much for identity politics, but try telling what you said to this Asian female comic book fan who wrote a critique about the movie's adaptation of Mantis compared to the comics' source material.

Source: https://womenwriteaboutcomics.com/2017/08/need-talk-mantis-abuse-guardians-galaxy-2/

Second, if more women suddenly justify their hatred for Batman Returns because its supposed sexist treatment of women, are you going to simply agree with her? Do you think there is any basis for the supposed sexism of Lois Lane, Wonder Woman and the Amazons in Batman v Superman and Justice League?

Finally, I find your statement about men to be quite sexist itself, and terribly presumptuous. I, for one, grew up in a family household where I saw my mother getting emotionally abused by my father on a frequent basis. So excuse me if I take issue when a woman gets blatantly insulted and abused for the sake of cheap laughs.

For all the criticism levelled at the DCEU, from myself included, one has to credit WB/DC for treating its filmmakers and actors, including those like Jason Momoa who have made unfortunate comments in the past (during a "Game of Thrones" Comic Con panel a few years back Momoa joked about how he enjoyed playing Drogo because it gave him the chance to 'rape beautiful women'), like adults.

Momoa was an idiot. But one isolated moment isn't comparable to making a habit of of inappropriate behaviour, like Gunn did.

the DCEU is a lot more filmmaker-orientated and supportive of creative freedom than Disney.

Try telling that to Zack Snyder.

[The Laughing Fish]

Despite a show of support from the whole cast on social media, and an idiotic campaign by fans titled #RehireJamesGunn, Disney has stood firm in its decision. Much to the anger and dismay of Dave Bautista, who went tweeted "Thanks @Disney for Making America Great Again". 

Like many apologists, Bautista believes Gunn's firing was a smear campaign by "cybernazis" like this Mike Cernovich. Cernovich does seem to be a piece of sh*t as well judging by the tweets I saw of his, but I question the wisdom over claims he's a Neo-Nazi if he's married to an Iranian woman, and they have a child together. Nonetheless, it amuses me the fans refuse to see the fact Gunn is responsible for his own conduct that lead to his sacking.

Meanwhile, the third Guardians film is has been put on hold until further notice, with production crews told to look elsewhere for work for the time being.

Source: https://deadline.com/2018/08/guardians-of-the-galaxy-vol-3-pre-production-crew-dismissed-as-project-goes-on-hold-1202452104/