Nolan wanted to show that anyone can be Batman, that he is more like a symbol.But I say NO. Batman is Bruce Wayne and not anyone can be Batman. Not without experiencing what Bruce had experienced first. That's one of the core points of being Batman for me, Bruce Wayne's story. Without a real reasoning to be Batman, you cannot claim to be Batman. Only Bruce Wayne could do it. Just doing it because you can like Blake did, that does not make a person Batman in my eyes.
i agree. anyone can be a hero, they can be a soldier or a police officer or a firefighter or a doctor or teacher or whatever. those are all occupations. batman is a single person. he is bruce wayne, not the other way around.
And there's only one Catwoman and it's Selina Kyle. We all know what happened almost 10 years ago when they tried something else... ;D
Quote from: Edd Grayson on Mon, 8 Jul 2013, 06:13
And there's only one Catwoman and it's Selina Kyle. We all know what happened almost 10 years ago when they tried something else... ;D
*hiss*
Oh and, Michelle Pfeiffer and Michael Keaton 4ever!!
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/p480x480/71780_267828616682217_431975702_n.jpg)
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.porhomme.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2009%2F01%2Fbatman-returns.jpg&hash=a91e1515b48865e0c59815571d3c34b22d0a66a8)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/1044301_328519657279779_251793693_n.jpg)
Quote from: Edd Grayson on Mon, 8 Jul 2013, 05:59
Nolan wanted to show that anyone can be Batman, that he is more like a symbol.But I say NO. Batman is Bruce Wayne and not anyone can be Batman. Not without experiencing what Bruce had experienced first. That's one of the core points of being Batman for me, Bruce Wayne's story. Without a real reasoning to be Batman, you cannot claim to be Batman. Only Bruce Wayne could do it. Just doing it because you can like Blake did, that does not make a person Batman in my eyes.
It totally contradicts the Batman wannabes asking "What's the difference between you and me?" in the second film now, doesn't it?
That's all they were, wannabes.
If I paint half of my face and walk around with a big silver coin does that make Two-Face? NO!! I was not scarred by acid, I was not tortured from the inside like Harvey was.
Quote from: Edd Grayson on Mon, 8 Jul 2013, 06:21
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/p480x480/71780_267828616682217_431975702_n.jpg)
that is the greatest pic in the history of history
It might as well be, I could look at it all day and still feel good.
i tried to make it my avatar and it didnt work. f***.
try to resize it, maybe, I'm not sure.
I don't know what Nolan was trying to accomplish with his "anyone can be Batman" theme. In what way exactly? Did he mean by having Batman doing something about crime that it would shake people's apathy and encourage them to make a change? Because if that's the case then it didn't work - we're not really shown what sort of impact Batman has on the city in the first movie, and then in the second movie people seem to have doubts about him. In fact, I'd say this whole symbolism would be better suited for a Superman movie, since Superman is normally the character that people are inspired by. Trying to make this symbolism out of Batman actually contradicts the whole idea that he is just as insane as the villains he fights. And it certainly doesn't make sense if Blake takes the mantle, because like how everybody else said, while he may have lost a loved one as well, he doesn't even have the money, the resources nor the training that Bruce had. And not Bruce himself could do an adequate job when he was Batman.
Is it confirmed that John Blake became Batman at the end of TDKR? Also my take on TDKR was that by the end of the film Bruce finally realised that the key to effecting positive change in Gotham was through philanthropy (i.e. by donating Wayne Manor to the orphaned children), much like his father once had, rather than through vigilantism.
Also, Edd makes the point that only those who have experienced what Wayne went through could possibly be Batman but arguably John Blake (who like I state is not clearly shown to become Batman in any case) has suffered what Bruce went through by losing his parents at a young age, his father in a particularly traumatic manner, and far worse since he wasn't born to the manor with a silver spoon.
Quote from: johnnygobbs on Mon, 8 Jul 2013, 08:12
Is it confirmed that John Blake became Batman at the end of TDKR? Also my take on TDKR was that by the end of the film Bruce finally realised that the key to effecting positive change in Gotham was through philanthropy (i.e. by donating Wayne Manor to the orphaned children), much like his father once had, rather than through vigilantism.
Judging how Blake was given coordinates to find the Batcave, and since it was confirmed that his real name was "Robin", I thought it was clearly implied that he was about to take over the mantle as Batman or whatever name he would be going by as the Gotham's new hero.
I'm not a big fan of "derivational characters" that have come up over the years...unless they are written well of course.
For me, each hero is only there because of a unique set of characteristics/events.
Superman - last survivor of Krypton sent to earth. Our atmosphere and yellow sun are a unique combination that give him physical strength. He is found by the Kents who provide him with good solid morals...giving him mental strength.
Batman - a rich man with very high intelligence, and unwavering obsession who witnesses his parents killed at a young impressional age. His intelligence/rage leads him to study/train for the years leading up to his adulthood. A bat smashes through a window at a time when he is looking for a medium to strike fear into criminals.
Spider-man - an intelligent science obsessed teenager is bitten by a spider that happened to become radioactive via a freak experiment. His uncle is killed due to his inaction which gives him a moral focus and motivation.
All great origin stories and all creating unique characters via unrepeatable events.
Lovely post Ral.
The image of Batman. Looking at the outline of his mask, it could be anyone under there. Yeah, if that's what Nolan means he's making an obvious point.
But if he means anyone can literally be Batman, he's dead wrong. As Ral posts, only a perfect storm of events that are personal to Clark Kent, Bruce Wayne, etc equal Superman or Batman.
You don't put on a cape and become a crime-fighter just because you look like one.
I could post about the Blake thing - but it made me roll my eyes so much I won't bother.
Quote from: Edd Grayson on Mon, 8 Jul 2013, 07:02
try to resize it, maybe, I'm not sure.
how would i do it?
Just open it in MS Paint and click on Resize. It should work.
Bruce contradicts himself throughout the second and third films; as mentioned he is hypocritical only allowing himself to be a vigilante despite the fact that people ARE standing up to the mob and crime which should be a good thing.
Also he entrust Selina Kyle despite her being a thief and a burgalar. Cool character but THAT is who he picks?
Quote from: riddler on Wed, 4 Jun 2014, 17:10
Bruce contradicts himself throughout the second and third films; as mentioned he is hypocritical only allowing himself to be a vigilante despite the fact that people ARE standing up to the mob and crime which should be a good thing.
Also he entrust Selina Kyle despite her being a thief and a burgalar. Cool character but THAT is who he picks?
Very true. Let's not forget that Bruce was set up by Selina so Bane could beat him up. And yet, Bruce still puts his faith in Selina even though she had betrayed him. Let's face it, he has no logical reason to trust her after that ordeal with Bane. Then again, what do you expect in a Nolan film? This is the guy who thought Harvey Dent allowing himself to be manipulated by the man who killed his girlfriend was a good idea. ::)
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Thu, 5 Jun 2014, 05:03
Quote from: riddler on Wed, 4 Jun 2014, 17:10
Bruce contradicts himself throughout the second and third films; as mentioned he is hypocritical only allowing himself to be a vigilante despite the fact that people ARE standing up to the mob and crime which should be a good thing.
Also he entrust Selina Kyle despite her being a thief and a burgalar. Cool character but THAT is who he picks?
Very true. Let's not forget that Bruce was set up by Selina so Bane could beat him up. And yet, Bruce still puts his faith in Selina even though she had betrayed him. Let's face it, he has no logical reason to trust her after that ordeal with Bane. Then again, what do you expect in a Nolan film? This is the guy who thought Harvey Dent allowing himself to be manipulated by the man who killed his girlfriend was a good idea. ::)
You're right, she's an expert at betrayal, especially from how she stole Martha's diamonds. He also chooses Talia Al Ghul. I mean this is a guy who doesn't get close to anyone, who chooses to segregate himself for 8 years and then yet he entrusts people he barely knows or even worse that he knows to be deceptive?
Quote from: riddler on Thu, 5 Jun 2014, 18:20
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Thu, 5 Jun 2014, 05:03
Quote from: riddler on Wed, 4 Jun 2014, 17:10
Bruce contradicts himself throughout the second and third films; as mentioned he is hypocritical only allowing himself to be a vigilante despite the fact that people ARE standing up to the mob and crime which should be a good thing.
Also he entrust Selina Kyle despite her being a thief and a burgalar. Cool character but THAT is who he picks?
Very true. Let's not forget that Bruce was set up by Selina so Bane could beat him up. And yet, Bruce still puts his faith in Selina even though she had betrayed him. Let's face it, he has no logical reason to trust her after that ordeal with Bane. Then again, what do you expect in a Nolan film? This is the guy who thought Harvey Dent allowing himself to be manipulated by the man who killed his girlfriend was a good idea. ::)
You're right, she's an expert at betrayal, especially from how she stole Martha's diamonds. He also chooses Talia Al Ghul. I mean this is a guy who doesn't get close to anyone, who chooses to segregate himself for 8 years and then yet he entrusts people he barely knows or even worse that he knows to be deceptive?
I know, it doesn't make any sense. All of this reaffirms what I've thought about Batman in this trilogy - that he is the dumbest character in all three movies. And because he is so stupid and dimwitted, it makes him the worst character in the entire trilogy. That's a massive problem for any movie, especially a superhero movie. We can thank the Nolan brothers and Goyer for that.
Also mystery is vital for Batman. Otherwise he just becomes a member of SWAT. That's what happened in the Nolan series too much for my liking. The Arkham games have been my go-to in this generation of Bat media. They get it.
They show Batman is an almost supernatural, superhuman force. When he's around, you pay attention. You can have Batman be the focus for the whole runtime if you want - ala Arkham - but it's how people respond to his presence. Maroni doesn't give a damn about Baleman's growling. After freeing the cops from the sewers in TDK Rises, people walk past and don't pay him any attention. For me, there's not the same presence.
Mixed in to this - elements of the trilogy fighting choreography were simply unacceptable. Nameless goons falling over with nobody near them. Running up and pointing guns and being taken down when they should've just aimed and fired from a distance. It goes on, and the TDK suit adds to the SWAT vibe. Burton copped a grilling in the action department, but in hindsight, he has nothing to worry about.