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Recently Gremlins director Joe Dante confirmed that he was considering directing the Tom Mankiewicz draft and mentions here that he was thinking of casting John Lithgow as The Joker:

Tom Mankiewicz's Batman sceenplay is one of the greatest unmade superhero movies of all time. The man who gave Superman: The Movie's legendarily difficult early drafts the polish that helped make it the timeless classic that it is (and who also wrote, co-wrote, or re-wrote the screenplays for James Bond adventures like Live and Let Die, Diamonds are Forever, and The Spy Who Loved Me) took a pass at Batman in the early 1980s, and one of the possibilities to direct it was Joe Dante (The Howling, Gremlins, Innerspace...oh, you know who he is!).

Dante passed on the movie, and it took several more years to actually get Batman to the big screen, by which point the project had changed hands so many times that Tom Mankiewicz's script was a thing of the distant past. Sam Hamm's script for Tim Burton's 1989 Batman movie bore no resemblance to Mankiewicz's, which was an extended origin story with similar pacing to the opening hour of Superman: The Movie (complete with a "first night on the job" sequence for Batman), multiple villains (both Joker and Penguin are present), and absurd, Bond-esque set pieces for the climax.

So imagine what that movie would look like had it been directed by Joe Dante. Dante was approached for the director's job, and he was initially interested, but ultimately turned the job down. "It was very outlandish," Dante says of Mankiewicz's Batman script, which he correctly describes as "not Chris Nolan-dark" but "darker than the [1960s Adam West] TV version."

But he did give it a little thought, particularly who he would have wanted to play The Joker. "I wanted to hire John Lithgow for that part because I had met him on The Twilight Zone movie," Dante said. "And for whatever reason, I started to gravitate more towards The Joker than towards Batman. And I actually woke up one night and I said to myself, 'I can't do this movie—I'm more interested in The Joker than I am in Batman, and that's not the way it should be.'" Dante turned the job down shortly after, admitting, "I think I was not the right guy to do the movie."

His John Lithgow comments put the timeline on this right around 1984, perhaps when he was at the peak of his powers with Gremlins, Explorers, Innerspace, and the wonderful The 'Burbs. For your "Lithgow as The Joker" image, keep in mind that he turned in a gloriously bonkers performance as Dr. Emilio Lizardo in The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension in 1984.

Dante has no regrets about it, though. "I don't regret not doing Batman, in the sense that I'm not sure what it would have ended up being like. But I certainly can't say it was a major career-booster, my decision not to make it."

Since I'm more familiar with Batman comics than Suicide Squad comics, I'm mainly going to comment on the Batman related characters.

Brian Azzarello and Lee Bermejo's Joker comic seems to be the biggest influence. Ironically, while the character design was similar to what Nolan and Ledger did with The Dark Knight, the Suicide Squad Joker seems to be closer to that version than the Dark Knight was. That comic featured:
- Jonny Frost, a henchman who carried over into the film
- Harley dancing at a strip club
- Killer Croc, who was more overtly portrayed as a cannibal
- Overall, a more melancholy gangster version of Joker

The film also clearly attempts to recreate the famous Alex Ross image of Joker and Harley, with Joker in the black and white tuxedo and Harley in the jester outfit (which was a big surprise to me).

Zoe Lawton is a relatively new addition to the DC universe, created in 2005. Much like in the comics, the movie uses Zoe as a way to get her father, Floyd Lawton aka Deadshot, to search for redemption.

Lastly, the tatooed Joker may have been inspired by the All Star Batman and Robin Joker, who had a dragon tattoo on his back. While Joker merchandise featured this tattoo, I don't believe we ever saw it in the film.

Based on the set visit articles around, one can already glean some of the potential comic book influences here...

- Superman is obviously set to return with some saying that he'll be back with longer hair. This is true to the Return of Superman comic
- The reported scene with Commissioner Gordon indicates that the Parademons are kidnapping people. This is similar to Justice League Origin, though in here, they are kidnapping scientists.
- The villain is Steppenwolf, who recently was the main villain of the New 52's Earth Two storyline, where he actually did succeed in taking out the Justice League.
- Batman's aircraft (think the helicarrier in the Avengers films) is called the Flying Fox. In the comics, the Flying Fox was the costumed persona that young Bruce Wayne took on when he lived in Smallville and helped Superboy fight crime.
- Barry Allen/Flash refers to himself as Jewish. This is actually true to the comic Christmas With the Superheroes where Green Lantern wishes Barry a Happy Hannukah
http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/06/21/justice-league-9-things-we-learned-about-the-dc-film

It looks like we'll be getting an extended African sequence as well as Clark investigating Batman in Gotham. Jena Malone's character appears to have a scene with Lois Lane.

[Poison. Ivy.]

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/margot-robbies-harley-quinn-movie-894486

DC and WB are already planning a spin off of Suicide Squad, with Margot Robbie reprising her role. And she won't be alone.

But in an interesting twist, the project is not a Quinn solo movie. Rather, it would focus on several of DC's female heroes and villains.

Details are being closely guarded but names such as Batgirl and Birds of Prey have surfaced, although in what capacity, it's not clear. Warner Bros. isn't commenting.

There is also a scribe penning the script but those details, too, are being kept secret, although it is known that the writer is female.

I have one name of someone who HAS to be in this and hasn't been in the DC Cinematic Universe yet: Poison. Ivy.

This was a beautiful haunting piece on the soundtrack and people have been editing it over past versions of the Wayne murders.

I'd be curious to see a cut with the Burton take on the murders cut with Bruce running from the funeral in Batman Forever, though there is a bit of a continuity issue with Bruce looking much older in BF.

Saw this song discussed but not posted anywhere and in light of Prince's death, here it is:

Should've been on the album.

Now that the former Daredevil is Batman and the former JJJ is Gordon, it looks like yet another actor from a no-longer-in-continuity Marvel movie is joining the DC Universe...Willem Dafoe!

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/justice-league-adds-willem-dafoe-880889

Unfortunately, all that's known about his character is that he's a good guy. Which is a shame 'cause if Leto wasn't already in Suicide Squad, I'd have loved Dafoe as Joker.

Speculation:

- An older JSA-type superhero. Maybe he's Jay Garrick, mentoring Miller's Barry Allen.

- If the JL is facing off Darkseid...maybe Dafoe is Highfather.

- A supporting character to one of the other JL members, much like Simmons as Gordon or Fishburne as Perry White.

He could be the cinematic universe version of Maxwell Lord and helps out with the JL in this one, but becomes a villain in the future, like in the comics.

Maybe he's Aquaman's dad, Thomas Curry, who gets taken hostage. When Batman and Aquaman fight and Batman nearly kills him by dehydrating him, Aquaman will cry out to save Thomas, prompting another Wayne murder flashback...

Found this video while browsing online:

Nice to see that he loved the role enough to do an improvised reprisal, sans makeup...

Following Gary Oldman, the next Commissioner Gordon is...J. Jonah Jameson?!! And he'll be appearing in the Justice League films first!

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/justice-league-adds-jk-simmons-873227

This is certainly a surprise. Hoping they give him his own hairpiece and mustache like they did with JJJ in the Spider-Man movies.

The Affleck line feels three years out of date...

Many of us have read Batman's first meeting with Superman in Byrne's Man of Steel, where they team up against Magpie. Or we've seen the DCAU version in the three-parter World's Finest.

However, there's multiple versions of Batman and Superman meeting each other. Some tidbits:
- Their first time drawn together was in the same panel as The Flash (Jay Garrick) in representing the Justice Society of America
- Their first full adventure together was done on radio
- Their first comic adventure together had Bruce and Clark forced to room together on the same cruise ship
- This was retconned in having Superboy know Bruce before the death of the Waynes, where Bruce took on the costume of "The Flying Fox." After the death of the Waynes, Superboy tried to dissuade a teenage Bruce from a life of vengeance when he donned the costume of...The Executioner. These two instances plus Bruce dressing up as the first Robin to learn from Harvey Harris mean that Bruce Wayne had three costumed personas before becoming Batman.

Read more here:
https://graemesliterarytimemachine.wordpress.com/2015/10/18/batman-v-superman-the-complete-story-of-how-they-met-1945-1952-1958-1970-1972-1986-2003-2004-2008-2011-2013/

The second actor who played Dick Grayson, Johnny Duncan, has died at age 92.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/johnny-duncan-dead-robin-batman-865317

Duncan was 26 at the time, making him the first of the "adult" live action Robins (Burt Ward and Chris O'Donnell were also in their twenties). I realize I haven't posted anything about the serials but what I appreciated most of the Batman and Robin serial was that Robin was pretty much played straight. He was the opposite of the Burt Ward "whiny" Robin that would become famous decades later. He was shown to be a capable partner to the Dark Knight.

Rest in peace, Mr. Duncan.

This guy went through all of the comics and media where Batman and Superman have fought and had a relatively fair criteria of determining who won and when.

For my film score enthusiasts- ever heard a score from a completely unrelated movie and thought that it would've made a good Batman theme?

A few of mine. I guess you could say I like my Batman themes to be loud, dark, and heroic:

The theme in the first 35 seconds of Alan Silvestri's track for Van Helsing

The theme from 0:40-1:17 of Junkie XL's Mad Max Fury Road score. Was honestly hoping his Batman theme for BvS would be something similar.

And of course Jerry Goldsmith's theme for The Shadow. Zimmer's Molossus theme for Batman Begins feels like a similar, more generic version of it.

Feel free to include themes from other movies that you think would fit other characters (i.e. Joker, Robin, etc.).

The serials were excluded, but this makes George Clooney as the only Batman who succeeded in never killing anyone.

http://deadline.com/2015/07/ben-affleck-geoff-johns-batman-dc-entertainment-warner-bros-comic-con-1201472921/

Confirmed, with Batman Earth One's Geoff Johns as cowriter.

Writer Will Brooker spoofs The Dark Knight Rises by rewriting it as a two-part Batman 1966 story, with Orson Welles as Bane (miscasting, in my opinion. I like one comment suggesting Ricardo Montalban instead) and Eartha Kitt as Catwoman.
www.io9.com/an-inside-look-at-the-lost-batman-66-episode-featuri-1716319939

A recent article seems to confirm and debunk certain rumors over the years on what Schumacher's third Batman film could've been:
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/batman-movie-series-list-unmade-802032

While most people say it was called Batman Triumphant, screenwriter Mark Protosevich says it was actually called Batman Unchained.

While Scarecrow (Schumacher's choice was Nicholas Cage) and Harley Quinn were definitely in his draft, it turns out that they were considering Courtney Love for the role. Madonna is often mentioned in conjunction with the role and I'm wondering if she was considered too or if it was always Courtney Love and someone along the way got her mixed up with the other blonde rocker:

. The brilliant (and satanic) Prof. Jonathan Crane/Scarecrow had a personal vendetta against Bruce Wayne, while Harley Quinn despised Bruce's alter ego.

Harley, a toymaker whom Protosevich describes as "sadistic in a mischievous, fun sense," learns that her true father was The Joker. This sets her on a path of vengeance against Batman for taking him away in the 1989 film. Eventually, Crane learns Batman's secret identity and teams up with Harley to drive him insane and have him sent to Arkham Asylum.

The standout character of the film would have been Harley Quinn, who in the end finds redemption for her villainous ways. She was to be complex, conflicted and ultimately a good person underneath. While the casting process never got off the ground, Protosevich's agents at CAA set him up for lunch with Courtney Love, who was also repped by the agency and was interested in getting an acting career going.

"I think she had heard about the possibility of Harley Quinn being in the new Batman and was thinking she would be good for it," says Protosevich. "But we didn't really talk about that. We talked about a lot of other things. It was certainly one of the better lunches I've ever had in my career in show business."

Rumors that Nicholson's Joker would return in hallucinations were true but it turns out that he wasn't the only villain they were thinking of bringing back:

The script culminates with an ambitious, all-star sequence that would have seen a hallucinating Batman face the demons of his past, where he is put on trial by the franchise's previous villains.

The studio wanted to enlist cameos from Danny DeVito (The Penguin), Michelle Pfeiffer (Catwoman), Tommy Lee Jones (Two-Face) and Jim Carrey (The Riddler), all leading up to a final confrontation with the man himself: Jack Nicholson's Joker.

"Joel wanted to tie up all of the films. The Tim Burton films and his films, building up to this moment," says Protosevich.

Notice how none of the B&R villains were mentioned.

Lastly, the story would've been about Batman confronting his own demons:

During the movie, a rift forms between Batman and Robin, who comes back during the final battle to help his mentor. After defeating his demons, Bruce travels to Bali, where Protosevich read in real life monks enter a cave full of bats to show they have conquered fear. In the script, Bruce enters the cave as bats swarm around him.

Credits roll.

"There's a similar image in Batman Begins, where he discovers what will be the bat cave and it's filled with bats and they are flying around him," says Protosevich. "Not that this scene was inspired by mine, but it was a similar idea. It was a powerful image."

This could have potentially kept the Burton-Schumacher series going and given Clooney a chance to play a darker Batman. While making Harley the Joker's daughter would've been controversial, it would've made sense with the movie continuity since she didn't exist in the Burton film.

What do you guys think?

[the Joker's had an origin for over 60 years.]

Due to recent events on the TV show Gotham, I see more and more people objecting to the idea of giving Joker a backstory.

And while I understand how that's become a preferred interpretation...it's not exactly true to the character's history, is it?

The Joker debuted in 1940. He didn't have an origin story, but then again, Batman, Catwoman, and Penguin didn't have origin stories in their first appearances either.

Joker's origin story The Man Behind the Red Hood (written by Bill Finger himself) came out 11 years after his debut, in 1951. Which means that the Joker's had an origin for over 60 years.

It wasn't just an obscure one-off comic, either. There have been tons of references to his Red Hood origin over the years. The most notable have been:
- The Killing Joke, which gives more insight into the man who was wearing the helmet. Granted, Joker later gives the "multiple choice" line, but the story is still a variation on the Red Hood origin and is always one of the top recommended reads about the Joker.
- Under the Hood/Under the Red Hood when Jason Todd returned and took on the Red Hood persona to refer to the Joker's origin as Batman's previous failure.
- Even in the New 52, in Batman Zero Year, which has the Red Hood Gang as full blown villains against a rookie Batman.

Hell, eliminating the Red Hood aspect from the Joker would actually invalidate a lot of the current comic stories, from either Zero Year to the significance of Jason adopting the Red Hood persona.

Other interpretations include the gangster origin, brought to us by the 1989 movie with the Jack Napier backstory. Batman: The Animated Series featured a similar take, along with Batman: Confidential's Lovers and Madmen story and a Black and White story by Paul Dini and Alex Ross.

In virtually all the takes, whether he dons a Red Hood or not, the Joker almost always starts out as a criminal who fell into a vat of chemicals during an encounter with Batman. Granted, that's not a ton and he's never had an official in-comics "real name," but it is STILL an origin.

The biggest exception has been the recent take by Scott Snyder that the Joker is an immortal who is older than Gotham itself. But this is still, in a way, a backstory since it gives us information about how old he is and how he's been able to escape death so many times.

If anything, the only version of the character that asked the question of "where did he come from?" and deliberately left it unanswered with no clues whatsoever...was the Nolan/Ledger Joker.

This makes the "Joker has no origin" take an exception rather than the rule in the history of the character.

What do you guys think, then? Is this insistence that "we shouldn't know anything about how the Joker came to be" a symptom of The Dark Knight's influence?
I certainly don't think the 1989 film got any flack, at the time, for showing us the man before he became the Clown Prince of Crime.