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On the subject of SII, I slightly prefer Donner's Cut (which technically is just an approximation of what a Donner Cut might have been, but not really), but I think both those cuts are very flawed. Mostly, I like the opening better and I love how Lois tricked him later in the film. I also love Brando's scenes. There's some weird placement in terms of editing in the Donner Cut. The Theatrical Cut feels more triumphant when Superman tricks Zod at the end and the theme begins to play. And, of course, it had the flag scene. And both cuts have my least favorite scenes, with the over the top hillbillies.

The only Superman film in that series that I truly love is the original. I would love to have seen what SII would have been like had Donner returned to finish it.

I didn't blame Snyder for it. 

A score doesn't have to copy Elfman's style, but the score for BvS is awful. Wonder Woman's theme sounds like it belongs in a Battletoads movie. Batman's theme is not a theme at all. Zimmer's theme for Superman is barely present at all, save for a few somber notes here and there. It's phoned in. It's bland. It's just music for the sake of having music. That's not what a good film score is.

Zack Snyder is not a terrible director. He's just not a good one. It's not that he's "All style, no substance," but his style gets in the way of substance. I don't think I have ever cared about a character in a Snyder film or found any to be relatable. I came close to liking Rorschach in Watchman. The scores (and tone) for his films tend to be bland and atonal. Not to say that I don't get what he's trying to do with his films. I just don't like it. I like connecting a film, its story, its characters, its tone, etc. I am unable to do so with Snyder's films and I think he is holding back the DCUE's potential. Right now, the DCEU doesn't feel definitive. It feels like yet another version of these characters in line to be rebooted yet again. It feels sedated too.

I think Superman has had the disservice of having films directed/produced by people who either want to try people who want to turn the character into a farce (Richard Lester, the Salkinds, Cannon Group), try too hard to emulate Richard Donner (Bryan Singer), or force the religious symbolism down your throat (Zack Snyder). Donner had such a reverent, humble way of approaching the character, which was perfect. Their Superman felt like a human being  and that's often something that is lost in translation. Yeah, he's an alien, but he's also alien that was raised to be human.

Unfortunately, the deleted footage on the DVD/Blu Ray releases isn't complete. In fact, not even "The Bat" sequence is complete as it doesn't include the bits with Bruce losing his memory.

I've always wanted to see a Batman Beyond film with Keaton, Burton, and Elfman back. It's more like wishful thinking, but I can dream!

Lithgow would have been an interesting choice. He is a great actor and can act a number of personalities, but he does crazy very well.

For those that saw this back in '89(I wasn't born yet), do any of you remember anyone having a problem with Batman killing back then?

Now I'm not justifying or condemning Burton's decision to have Batman kill in his films, but it's something I've been wondering since with today's Batman fans, many of them don't consider this to be the "true" Batman since he's a murderer, but it didn't seem to be a problem with folks back then, and I'm assuming Batman hasn't killed in decades in the comics by that point(haven't read them, sorry). It does puzzle me how people seemed to dislike the inclusion of Joker being the murderer of the Waynes from day one, but they are fine with him going Charles Bronson Death Wish style on the bad guys he faces.

Discuss...

I don't mind his killings in Burton's films. In the first film, in a lot of scenes he's trying to stay alive. The scene that comes to mind if the fight on top the cathedral. One guy just flat out misses him. Another guy is definitely fighting to kill him, so I do consider a lot of that scene, in loose terms, self-defense. He does murder the Joker, but I've always kind of liked that moment. "You know, sometimes I just kill myself!"

I was a kid at the time, so I don't remember much of the controversies about the killing, the Joker killing his parents, and the Vicki Vale thing. But I can say that out of the three, the one that bothers me the most is the Vicki Vale scene. Not really because Alfred wouldn't let her in the cave, but because it's the worst scene in the movie and feels so tacked on and soap opera-ish.

I have never actually thought of it before. I saw this film at the drive in when I was like 4. It has been apart of my life so long that I have never thought about the Joker's name. I always just figured that they wanted us to experience Batman first from a thug's point of view and make his origins more mysterious for the audience, which at the time might've included a lot of people who had only a vague sense of Batman ("he's a guy who dresses like a bat!") and some memories of watching the Adam West show. And that left a lot of space at the forefront of the film where maybe they felt we needed to see an origin story for the villain and make it personal and dramatic, therefore giving the Joker a name, having Batman be a figurehead at the Joker's birth, and making the Joker the killer of Batman's parents. I just thought Jack Napier was something that popped in their heads with little to no meaning.