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I'm with you though. I caught on to her putting the pieces together once she discovers his parents were murdered. I'm not sure why this has since been turned into a big deal. I think Vicki figuring that out on her own is much more in line with the character.

As far back as I can remember, I never thought Alfred just let her in, I always thought she figured it out on her own. I guess the opponents of that point of view would then argue, okay but why does Bruce chastise Alfred for "letting Vicki Vale into the Batcave" in Batman Returns? 

With Robin I think they must've decided it was just one too many characters. And Burton I think may have implied or agreed to use Robin in the next picture.

Well, it's one thing for Vale to come over insisting that Wayne is Batman... it's another to let her into his secret headquarters and confirm it. Obviously Alfred was trying to tempt Bruce with Vale as opposed to the cowl, so I don't blame Alfred for making a desperate play there.

And in the novelization (and earlier script drafts) their talk does happen in the Wayne Manor study (presumably where Bruce was sitting while looking through Napier's file).

Apparently, the game story isn't complete--"chapter" expansions later this year continue it, and data miners have noted that the JL are still in the portions yet to come, including Bruce.

It's apparently a fakeout death. A hallucination, clones or whatever. Everybody getting worked up based on hearsay.

So, this is a showing of the complete movie then? Rather than a concert with selected scenes being live scored?

Either way, this sounds very interesting.

Yeah, the entirety of the movie, the only difference (basically) is that the score is performed live as the movie plays.

I attended, there is indeed a no filming policy, at least while things are going

There were additional flourishes in the score, presumably stuff Danny wrote that didn't make it to the final cut. There was a short reprise of Danny's love theme (Not "Scandalous") when Vicki said goodbye to Alfred the morning after ("Back, Miss Vale?") and another brief cue played alongside Alicia seeing Jack again ("You'll never believe what happened to me today").

There was an intermission, right after the Batmobile stops at Bruce's feet, and in that moment, the orchestra did a little wrap-up music, reprising the moment when Batman jumps off the roof at the beginning of the movie.

The orchestra performed the classical piece at the museum (which makes sense, but I hadn't thought about it), and they also performed "Theme From a Summer Place," along with the Hill Bowen version of "Beautiful Dreamer," which is the one tracked-in for the real movie (Burton didn't end up using the versions recorded for Elfman's score). Speaking of the apartment scene, they put back-in Danny's piece for the sequence (before the Joker arrives), which runs from just before the scene transition and ends when Bruce pushes Vicki to sit down.

For my performance, sadly, the orchestra got out-of-sync during "Waltz to the Death," and it totally broke my brain for a moment , but thankfully they righted themselves for the rest.

For the end credits, where "Scandalous" normally plays, the orchestra continued on and first played something I couldn't quite make out (I was in the second row and between the cheers and my poor acoustic position, I had trouble identifying it), but it segued into a reprise of "Decent into Mystery" to finish up. It was quite nice.

Warners obviously provided a custom sound mix, without music and with boosted dialogue, reduced (or removed) sound effects and some additional ADR added, for whatever reason. Some voices could be buried in the normal sound mixes that I'd never heard, but others I'm sure were newly dubbed in, for cops/background characters. You could hear Knox's questions to the crime lords at City Hall pretty clearly (along with too much vocal noise drowning out the orchestra, for some reason), and the black reporter who talks before Knox was a different voice!

Alfred also announced Vicki coming into the cave ("Miss Vale, sir!") in a voice that was too enthusiastic, and he also calls to her at the end when she turns around to see him and the car ("Miss Vale!") Both were clearly Michael Gough's voice, so I assume they were pulled from the archives and put back in.

I gotta say though, while I wish the dialogue was quieter or nonexistent (but I guess the movie being only visual with no sound would have bored normal folks), it was an experience unlike any other, and I was in heaven. From the Wayne flashback on, it was a damn-near spiritual experience for me. If you have a chance to go, GO!

https://www.dcfilmsinconcert.com/

But at the same time, this is the Batgirl thread, and since the movie never came out, I guess that's all there is to talk about?

Sure, but there's only so many times people can repeat the same talking points before it gets ridiculous. Especially when no new ground is being covered. In my opinion, discussion on Warner Bros.' ineptitude (real or imagined) should be localized to a thread where that is the entire topic, instead of constantly being brought up in other topics. Every DCEU topic here has simply become one person posting minor new tidbits, segueing into the same tired complaints. Nobody else cares.

Yeah, the Telltale games are good, although, I think S1 is way better than S2. They totally rewrote the mythos, so everything feels fresh. It's a must for Batman fans.

But reading the rest of your post, I had no idea there was a Brave and the Bold game. I'm gonna have to find a way to play that. 

Wii Emulation is pretty solid--Dolphin runs Brave and the Bold like a champ, should you be willing. It's a great game, too (of course, anything made by WayForward tend to be great).

I couldn't agree more about Arkham Origins--it's a must-play. The best story in the series, mostly because Bruce is young and more emotional. I love Kevin (obviously) but in the Arkham series he was mostly stuck playing the atypical iconoclastic Batman who stays frozen as a character, but in Origins he's quite brusque and has to go on a character arc. These days, any recent computer should be able to run it with few problems, but when it comes to playing it on a console, that's tougher. It IS backwards compatible on modern Xboxes, but you have to run it from a disc, and playing it there allows a more stable framerate than playing it on the PS3.

But when I got an upgraded PC, I decided I was never going back to Arkham games at 30 fps, and besides that, now people are able to add in new, fully modeled Batsuits now, so the sky's the limit on the cool stuff we can have now.

The Telltale games are a perfect counterbalance to the Arkham series, since they focus more on Bruce Wayne, making them a rather perfect companion series to the action-heavy Arkham saga.

What's become clear is that people are tired of drama relating to the DCEU--a product line which is now dead. Studio politics on the part of Warner Brothers were not new in the case of the DCEU, and it's just what happens in the industry, it always has and always will. It's the nature of business.

David Ayer and Zack Snyder were not treated especially poorly compared to others, and people who insist on beating that dead horse are looked at with annoyance, whether it's openly stated here or not. The conspiracies, the posturing, the whining--it's time to move on from it. The fact that only one person here is still talking about it (and prettymuch never gets replied to anymore) is the proof.

[really]

To my knowledge, Hodson's Beyond script was very early on retrofitted into the first draft of the Batgirl script. And I think the proof's in the pudding--Bruce being a mentor figure makes that evident. I don't think her BB script got very far before its ideas became Batgirl.

The failure of The Flash is pretty clear to me, and it is a variety of factors--DC as a brand being poison is one of them. Outside of Momoa's Aquaman movie (not necessarily the character, I think) and Gadot as WW, the general audience hasn't enjoyed any of it. The MCU effect was bolstering interest in superheroes in-general for a long while there, so Man of Steel and Batman v Superman got big boosts off of that, though the general audience didn't really care for them at all. MoS wasn't part of a "cursed" brand yet, there was some interest in Superman, and Nolan's name helped too. Despite the money BvS made, it barely turned a profit, in one sense owing to an inflated budget. Just like The Amazing Spider-Man 2, where the film made decent money, but was a failure due to its expense.

But in a post-pandemic world, where many people seem more hesitant to go out as much as before (and with massive inflation)? People have become much more picky. They're not going to go out to the movies unless the word of mouth is ridiculous, or there's plenty of existing good will.

The DCEU had no good will left, and each successive movie has been making less and less. Don't forget that Doctor Strange's second movie made more money than The Batman at the box office. That carries certain factors on its own, but I cannot doubt that the overall attitude toward DC by the general audience was at least a part of it.

Regular folks have easily heard that Miller was in some trouble, but let's face it, the biggest and juiciest details were not widely reported. It had little effect on the box office. Rather, nobody cares about DC as a brand and especially nobody cared or noticed Miller's version of the character. Ezra themselves are not a big name that would have attracted people on its own, and sadly I am indeed now convinced that Keaton's name doesn't carry enough weight as Batman, either. Although I'm sure without Keaton, the box office would have been even lower, as he was the only thing that garnered any authentic (non WB fabricated) buzz.

WB also screwed the pooch by showing the thing to half of the damn population of the planet and pushing the narrative that it was so good. I believe ViewerAnon when he reports how well it tested, as VA has very rarely been wrong (and cops to it when he is), so WB's test audiences may have skewed too geeky to be a real barometer, or earlier cuts were just better. Also, wonky special effects don't count against a film when it's testing, as viewers are informed that it's a work in progress.

WB set the expectation so high, that when it wasn't even close to being that good, the film became a laughing stock. Had there been much more subdued buzz, people might have been pleasantly surprised and the word of mouth might have been better.

But the honeymoon period for superhero movies seem to be over. Audiences don't hate them, but the "rising tide lifts all ships" effect of the MCU has ended--the general audience isn't even as in love with Marvel as they were (I think Endgame feeling like such a complete ending allowed a lot of people to feel like they were able to jump off), so superhero flicks can't be mediocre anymore, nor can they (I think) afford to be as heady or as serious as The Batman--you've got to try to hit all four quadrants. Have a reasonable runtime and budget and have a sense of fun without being a flat-out comedy.

The billion dollar days are over--for a while there, superhero movies and blockbusters were tripping over that threshold, but I don't think they can anymore. Only the ones the general audience really like are going to make it there, now. Just like the old days.

I don't think that's supposed to be Gotham Cathedral... the design is too different. I think it's a different bell tower or perhaps Barbara's clock tower.

There are few things I want to leak more than this, dammit. Maybe the assembly cut of Forever that Kevin Smith is showing off.

I ping pong when it comes to this film.

I can't decide if I like it a fair amount, or if I find it mediocre.

It has a fair set of issues--not the kind that make a movie unwatchable to me, but flaws all the same. After how WB foolishly tried to overhype this flick, I can say that it didn't live up to that hype. For me, the worst thing a film can be is boring or lifeless, and The Flash was not.

It had a lot of things going for it--a genuinely decent through-line and heart. But it's in service to a Barry Allen I've never liked. Regardless of Miller's real life escapades, their Barry Allen has never been "Barry Allen" to me, and that impacts everything. They continued to make Barry an obtuse, fidgety neophyte--and it's not like I didn't know that was possible, going in. They were certainly better than before (and the younger Barry was there for greater contrast), but still, it isn't an ideal portrayal of The Flash... and it adapts a storyline I don't care for. The Barry Allen I knew and loved (Pre-Crisis) was wise and seasoned enough to know not to mess with time. This isn't the film's fault--that's just a case of Geoff Johns changing Barry's character to make such a stupid mistake.

The film's execution leaves much to be desired--it's routinely fine, most of the time... but the fact remains that the comedy should have been dialed back by at least 20%. They didn't interject comedy into the middle of important scenes and that's commendable given the comedic sensibilities on display--I thought for sure we were going to head that way based on the type of jokes they were doing. In spite of all this, the film somehow managed to never irritate me. Perhaps because outside of one aspect (we know which one), I wasn't expecting real greatness.

But you know what? It's all water under the bridge at the end of the day--because this film gave me back my hero, and in full force.

As prettymuch everyone unanimously agrees, Michael Keaton rocked this sh*t, and he rocked it hard. Some of the best Batman stuff put to film--an older, trustworthy hero who, in spite of the amateurs he had to look after, never once lost his cool or failed. Calculating, quick thinking and the bravest man on the planet. Prettymuch single-handedly rescued Supergirl (The Barrys were no help and despite Kara, I think he could have managed to take the guards on the surface), and while any Batman whooping Kryptonians is a tall order without them magic green space rocks, Keaton gave everything he had. Fought until his body could do no more. THAT's how a hero goes out.

The fact that he basically was a main character for the last hour and a half of the film just blows my socks off. It's fair that he not have more screen time than the main character, but in today's world, he could have easily been in the film much less--they gave me enough that I was satisfied, despite the fact we know there was the chance for more. With the plans for Keaton to stick around, they might easily have only had him in this for a measly fifteen or twenty minutes.

His heart-to-heart with Barry at the Batcomputer was a wonderful thing--his movies before were made in a time where too much dialogue from Batman would be demystifying, but in a world that fully embraces superheroes, Keaton finally gets to exposit a bit on Wayne's state of mind and it kind of brings a wonderful cap on his time in the cape and cowl. This is a man who has had time to reflect on his life and see it for what it is. No excuses and no regrets. After all, he succeeded in his task.

But when the world needed him, Batman returned.

His death scene was lovely--very meaningful to me and very reverently performed by Keaton. There was a great sense of acceptance on Bruce's part--again, no regrets. He knew the sacrifice he made had been worth it, even if it was doomed. After all, what more could he do? I think the only thing that could have brought him regret was a refusal to try.

What an experience. I'd probably give the film a 4/10, but Keaton makes it a 7.