Wonder Woman (2017)

[The Dark Knight]

There are ways of casting this role right.



I'd be the very last person to defend Adrianne Palicki on ALMOST anything. Because if you've spent any time in Austin at all, you're probably familiar with the gossip factor and you've heard many a story about Palicki. Put it this way, hypothetically if Johnny Depp ever somehow ended up married to Palicki, you'd have to wonder what he ever had against Amber Heard. Because Palicki makes Heard look like a choirgirl.

But I'll defend the decision to cast her as Wonder Woman on a superficial basis. I mean, say whatever you want about Palicki's personal stability (or her apparent inability to avoid bar fights) (with men), she was pretty smokin' hot when this picture was taken. And while that particular Wonder Woman uniform might not be the best choice for the character, (1) it's still recognizably Wonder Woman (2) it doesn't take much imagination to see how things could've been a lot worse and (3) Palicki LOOKS the part and those heels put her well over six feet tall.

The concern that I think many of us have is that the eventual Wonder Woman actress will, to be politic about it, not resemble Palicki AT ALL.

The bare minimum we should expect is for the characters to actually look like the characters. But that's no longer guaranteed. The fact of the matter is that Wonder Woman is an attractive white female and she should be portrayed by someone with those attributes. Period. Superficiality matters in visual media and it can't be dismissed just as shallow thoughts from sexist pigs. That's how she drawn, and if it's good enough for the comics it should be good enough for the films. If the spirit of the page can't be translated in any adaption my level of immersion is automatically reduced.

As for Gunn, do I like him? I can't say I do. I believe those tweets are indeed who he is deep down. But thinking strictly about business matters I can't fault his logic in doing a reboot. If I'm given the job of creating a blueprint I'm starting again as well rather than adding to a patchwork. That way it's truly your vision. It looks like you're doing damage when the system that has been established is in the process of being torn down. But the timeline since Whedon's cut has not been ideal and a lot of damage was already been done before we got to this point.

The only thing giving reluctance to a full reboot was removing the Snyder trinity. However their presence after Whedon's cut was greatly reduced to the point we had basically already lost them. They were spoken about but never properly seen. In the reboot I'd like a greater focus on the League members working together and a lot more often. Again, played by actors that resemble their comic counterparts.

[The Joker]

The concern that I think many of us have is that the eventual Wonder Woman actress will, to be politic about it, not resemble Palicki AT ALL.

[The Laughing Fish]

Yeah, I'm fine with the idea of it. I'm just hoping it turns out good. That's all you can do.

If we're getting more garbage like this from that creep James Gunn, don't get your hopes up.

It's just too early to be that upset. Sure, the Cavill news sucks, but we saw the writing on the wall years ago. This was inevitable. At least we got the Snyder Cut, so you can't be that upset. It is what it is.

If that were the case, then why the hell did WBD give Cavill assurance he had a future as Superman? This achieved nothing other than making him look like a fool, he quit the Witcher show for this.

Why spend so much money on reshoots for actors like Cavill and Affleck, only to just scrap everything again? That's money flushed down the toilet. And that's critical for a studio that's curently in huge debt.

Seriously, even if you put all bias aside - whether you're pro-Snyderverse or pro-reboot, this sh*t only hurts the DC brand. It only goes to show if WBD can't stick with a plan for one movie, then what hope is there for a ten-year plan? There's only so much loyalty and patience that fans can have until it reaches a breaking point.

I say this dispassionately, I've never seen a brand like DC mismanaged in my entire life.

[thecolorsblend]

I say this dispassionately, I've never seen a brand like DC mismanaged in my entire life.

Normally, I would've been content to let a post like this slide on by. But this part intrigues me.

You could argue that it's splitting hairs. But I would submit to you that Star Wars is the most mismanaged IP in recent memory. There was a good head of steam going into The Force Awakens, fans and general moviegoers were happy to have Star Wars back, there was an overriding sense of excitement to see what was coming and... thud. TFA was well received. But pretty much everything since then was a misfire, miscalculation, overcorrection, unnecessary overovercorrection, an intentional act of spite to the fans, more overcorrection, etc.

Star Wars was one of the strongest, most loyal, most dependable and most profitable brands/IP's in history. If I ever taught a brand management course, I would do an entire section on how Lucas flawlessly managed Star Wars from 1991 through 2012. The odd clunker idea aside ('The Courtship Of Princess Leia' novel, the Star Wars/Transformer crossover toy line, etc.), what Lucas was able to achieve with a mostly inactive movie franchise merits genuine study from academia, business students, etc. Nobody ever does it. But believe me when I say there's gold in them thar hills.

For example, Lucas sold the (mostly) exact same trilogy of movies to the (mostly) exact same public four times in seven years on VHS (1993, 1995, 1998, 2000). You can only get to that level with genuine business acumen.

And Disney shot ALL of that straight to hell. Star Wars has never recovered and I doubt it ever will.

Meanwhile, there have been successes with DC. Yes, there have. Some of the live action movies have been legit and for quite a while there (and somewhat now), the animated features are pretty solid as well. Mostly underrated. The most creatively and financially successful Marvel animated feature is undoubtedly Into The Spiderverse. Nobody questions that. But with animated DC features, you can have one hell of a big (and long) debate as to which animated feature is the best, most successful, most entertaining, etc. The answers will vary wildly from one respondent to the next.

DC on television is a whole other can of worms. But there are some quality shows to choose from there as well. I'm a Smallville fanboy from way back. But with not very much effort, you can find hardcore DC fans who will love to explain why Gotham is the greatest DC adaptation of all time. Such a claim, of course, will be answered (with vigor) by Arrowverse stans. And this isn't even touching DC animated TV shows, which ought to be a category unto itself in any fair and sane universe.

Such debate does not exist with Star Wars. The Disney era has very few ardent, sincere defenders.

All of this is to say, no, I disagree. For as bad DC media might be in the current year, it's pretty obvious that Star Wars is the biggest mess in the entire media world. Or if there's a bigger train wreck than Star Wars, then I guess I can't think of it off-hand.

[The Laughing Fish]

All of this is to say, no, I disagree. For as bad DC media might be in the current year, it's pretty obvious that Star Wars is the biggest mess in the entire media world. Or if there's a bigger train wreck than Star Wars, then I guess I can't think of it off-hand.

Let's not forget that it wasn't so long ago that George Lucas was blamed for "ruining" Star Wars by many people, some of them taking it too far by claiming he "raped our childhood". Those dickheads played a huge part in his decision to sell the rights to Disney. The prequels might be looked at fondly today, but that was not always the case.

No matter how badly Disney f***ed it up with the sequels, they still have a fanbase for stuff like The Mandalorian, Andor, and even Obi-Wan Kenobi. They may not necessarily be my thing (actually, I like Andor for what it is), but depending on who you ask, they are the saving grace for Disney's franchise. The same goes for video games like Jedi Fallen Order and a lot of animated shows. Dismiss that sentiment all you want, but it exists.

Show me Star Wars having the equivalent of a Josstice L/ZSJL situation, or even the way Warners handled the Batgirl cancellation situation.

Show me the Star Wars equivalent of being associated with a Whedon-type PR disaster.

Show me the equivalent of the latest Cavill fiasco. Can you imagine Star Wars actors announcing their return, only to be dumped like naive buffoons?

Show me the equivalent of rebooting a universe while the last remaining films are still on their way.

Or how about the repetitive history of Warners hitting the panic button in the worst possible way, as soon as expectations don't go their way?

In the context of a shared universe, DC IS a massive train wreck. No amount of successful out-of-continuity films, TV shows or animated series makes up for the fact DC's ambition to be this single franchise like the MCU is a shambles. And it definitely won't improve under Gunn.

[Travesty]

You could argue that it's splitting hairs. But I would submit to you that Star Wars is the most mismanaged IP in recent memory. There was a good head of steam going into The Force Awakens, fans and general moviegoers were happy to have Star Wars back, there was an overriding sense of excitement to see what was coming and... thud. TFA was well received. But pretty much everything since then was a misfire, miscalculation, overcorrection, unnecessary overovercorrection, an intentional act of spite to the fans, more overcorrection, etc.

Oh, I agree, and something I've been saying since the Disney acquisition. I constantly showed my hesitation on the property. One of the biggest flubs was the fact that they were making everything canonical, something even the MCU wasn't doing. The second they said that, I had strong doubts. And I always used Snyder as a comparison. People hate on Snyder, and he has a very vocal and strong base of detractors(way more than the pro "Snyderbro" side). I always said: you can hate Snyder all you want, but when his movies are done, they're done. They'll reboot, and we'll get new versions of these characters. Nothing he did affected the comics, videogames, animation, past movies, etc. You can't say the same about Star Wars. You have someone like Rian Johnsons come in, and when he starts messing with his movies, he single handedly screwed up the ENTIRE canon of SW forever. That includes the original trilogy, all of the books, comics, vidoegmaes, etc. That ripple is felt across all mediums FOREVER, unless they decide to reboot the franchise.....which I don't see them doing anytime soon. All that work leading up to that is tarnished, all because of one terrible movie, because the director wanted to subvert expectations.

Sure, you can hate on some aspects of DC, and I think there's merit to some claims, but things can change for the better. None of this is canonical, so these characters can adapt and change over time. BUT, I will say, I didn't like hearing Gunn claim that this new reboot will be integrating the movies with the videogames, animation, etc. That is heading towards SW territory of blunders, but we'll have to see how this shakes up. Nothing is set in stone yet, but again, it isn't nearly as bad as what Disney did with SW.

[The Dark Knight]

You and colors are right. I don't even know how much the general public even knows, or indeed cares about Cavill being dropped as Superman and going for a reboot. Their emotional investment isn't the same as ours, and with the DCEU it probably wasn't really there to begin with. Star Wars was more universal. It continues being milked but The Last Jedi really felt like a full stop conclusion to the story and how a lot of people feel about it. The magic and excitement is gone, and as you say, that's set in stone due to Disney's big tent continuity. Reboots are part and parcel of comics and comic based movies. It's what people are accustomed to, and as such the characters are more resilient and malleable. Superman and Batman stretch out across various timelines. If you didn't like something you wait a while. The same can't be said with Luke Skywalker and friends.

[The Joker]

I can see both sides of the debate, with the underlining factor being that both IP's have been incredibly mismanaged. It's perfectly understandable that Star Wars comes across as, I guess, much more outstandingly egregious under the circumstances since that IP enjoyed a rather steady hand thanks to George Lucas for decades, and the sky was the limit following the good will prior, and even after, "The Force Awakens". Rather than having just even a decent strategy for the most anticipated sequel trilogy since, well, forever, the powers that be over at Disney decided to just wing it and give carte blanche to roundhead Johnson with "The Last Jedi", and the rest is unfortunate history.

Over with Warners and DCEU, the appalling mismanagement is readily apparent due to the DCEU never really getting it's footing right, and constantly being in a state of flux with Warner Bros continually being intrusive to a incredulous degree. Not only creative wise, but also interfering with the editing/tone/original intent of the films themselves. All thanks to that over reactionary mindset to pretty much anything MCU was doing. This frequent panic inclination on the part of Warners, of course, bleeds over into the public's perception of the DCEU IP. Where nothing really matters cause it can, and often does change, just five minutes later. Making the entire DCEU IP a total unpredictable crap shoot at the box office. Which, if it wasn't understood before (and I honestly don't know why it wouldn't have been), should have been easily discernible directly following James Gunn's name being ponderously used in advertising "The Suicide Squad" (along with having creative carte blanche on what he wanted to do thanks to his Guardians success and his association with Disney's MCU), and it literally didn't move the box office revenue dial, or confidence with the DCEU, whatsoever.

[The Laughing Fish]

I found out WW2017 had shot an original post-credit scene that would've tied to ZSJL.





https://twitter.com/RTSnyderCut/status/1616901547442507779

The shot of the Mother Box in Themyscira - the same one we saw at the beginning of ZSJL - would've increased the hype for the team-up if it weren't for the internal sabotage going on.

Instead, this alternative scene got released, but never appeared in the final cut anyway. Just as well, the canon was already butchered enough once Josstice L came out.

[Travesty]

So they're apparently keeping Gal Gadot as WW and making a WW3. lol

Look, I like Gal and all, but this "reboot" stuff is starting to look really messy. If we're getting a new Superman and Batman, why keep Gal around? This just makes no sense.

"I love portraying Wonder Woman," Gadot said when asked about the third movie. "It's so close to and dear to my heart. From what I heard from James and from Peter is that we're gonna develop a 'Wonder Woman 3' together."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/gal-gadot-on-wonder-woman-3-what-i-heard-from-james-gunn-and-peter-safran-is-that-we-re-gonna-develop-it-together/ar-AA1eGJVn