For better or for worse, the DCEU is a train wreck. We can assign blame for that however we want but the fact remains. Worse, and for reasons which I sincerely don't believe are entirely WB's fault, Marvel has a virtual monopoly on continuity-laden, shared universe type stuff.
The damage is done. So at this point, I say that WB should go their own way now. Specifically, why bother having interconnected movies at all? Why not let all the DC characters go in their own direction(s)? Why not allow each movie (or franchise) be its own thing?
What if WB made a live action adaptation of The Laughing Fish? Do it up right as a period piece set in the 70's in the style of New Hollywood/American New Wave. Put that comic book on film (or digital video, anyway), more or less. Reimagine is as more of a stand alone piece where Batman finds out the Joker is on the loose, poisoning fish, etc. It's been a long time since wide audiences have seen Bruce choose between his calling as Batman and a normal life with the woman he loves. Silver represents a completely valid choice Bruce can make while the Joker represents the life path which will eventually be Bruce's undoing. Explore why somebody would choose something as insane as being Batman when a viable alternative (ie, Silver St. Cloud) is on the table.
Do a Superman movie set in the 1930's. You can use that It's Superman novel as inspiration if you want. Sort of a Tom-DeHaven-meets-Max-Fleischer-in-live-action type of thing. Part period piece/Capra film, part screwball comedy, part vintage early or mid-1930's sci-fi piece. This could be interesting. The Kents are dead so Clark heads out for the big city to make a difference in the only ways he knows how. But how can even his amazing abilities overcome mankind's darkest tendencies?
A John Stewart Green Lantern movie set in the 80's could be amazing. Set it up that Stewart is still recovering from his traumatic experiences in Vietnam when he's selected to be a Green Lantern. But all is not as it seems and before he knows it, John finds himself in a Watergate-in-outer-space type of thing with the Guardians, who are being subverted from within by persons unknown and it becomes Stewart's job to get to the bottom of it. But is he stable enough for the job?
How about Martian Manhunter in the 1950's as a throwback film noir thing? Venetian blinds, deep shadows, voice-over narration, a femme fatale, the whole program. J'onn is every bit as much an outsider to that world as us and he serves sort of as our guide to Hell as he investigates a murder mystery in this strange new world he finds himself in. J'onn has more or less survived the apocalypse on his own planet and he's absolutely befuddled by the concept of murder. Explore that. How does someone who's lucky to even be alive cope with having to live with people who have no idea how good they have it?
A Barry Allen Flash movie set in the 60's could be tons of fun. It might be kind of neat for The Flash to gain his powers and get pulled in to some sort of hare-brained government scheme to use his speed to spy on the Soviets or something. Barry always struck me as a joiner. If pressed, he would work with the government. But when he zooms over to Smolensk or Moscow or wherever he's going, maybe he discovers the mission he accepted is not exactly what he signed up for? Before too long, he finds himself torn between duty to his country vs. what he KNOWS is the right thing to do. Idk, something like that.
And hey, imagine Pre-Crisis Power Girl and The Huntress on Earth-2 in a kinda sorta Buddy Cop movie. This might a good entry point for wide audiences for those two characters. And none of this Helena Bertinelli stuff either. We're talking about good old Helena Wayne, daughter of Bruce Wayne here. Go for an over-the-top science-fantasy, EARTH-2 type of tone for the movie.
Ages ago, Vertigo published Sandman Mystery Theatre starring Wesley Dodds in gritty, neo-noir types of stories. Why not do a Sandman movie along those lines? Set it in the modern day as doddering old Wesley operates as a sort of PI type of superhero. Gas mask, the gas gun, the long coat, the whole thing. He's too old for this type of work even though he can't give it up. He's an old man playing a young man's game. What is the price paid for trying to live up to ideals his body is simply too frail to uphold anymore?
Most of these movies could probably be done on a sub-$150 million budget, they won't compete directly with Marvel and they can existing independently of each other. And who knows, they could burnish a few DC properties in dire need of re-invigoration.
But even all of the above fail, so what? At least they're original.
It should come to no surprise that I'd definitely be in favour of that Laughing Fish adaptation idea. More so than that pointless movie Joaquin Phoenix is doing. But it's a pipe dream.
The only adaptations I'm interested in are the Marvel Netflix shows, and even then, the track record hasn't been that great lately. But Jessica Jones S2 is making me happy so far, only six episodes in.
Movie wise? I've lost interest at the moment, for both Marvel and DC.
Joker: looks like ass.
Captain Marvel: not interested.
Avengers 4: after being hugely disappointed by the overrated mess that was Infinity War, forget it.
Wonder Woman 1984: not really interested anymore.
Shazam: not for me.
Aquaman: Out of curiosity, I'd consider watching it only when it hits home video. I don't have the urge to pay for it at the cinema, not after learning more details over how WB screwed Snyder's real vision of Justice League.
At this stage, even if Affleck were to come back, or somebody like Jon Hamm were to be suitable replacement, the next Batman movie will likely be screwed over by hypocritical biases, rather than being judged by objective merit.
I don't know if my mood will change some time in the future, but right now, I just don't care.
Judging by the announcement of the castings of Black Canary and Huntress in Birds of Prey with Margot Robbie expected to return as Harley Quinn, it doesn't appear that the DCEU is dead yet. But one thing is for sure, Snyder's original five movie plan is definitely gone.
My attachment to the DCEU is dead. Cavill as Superman and Affleck as Batman is what I wanted. If we're not getting that (and it's 50/50 at this point, I'd say) then the enterprise is dead for me. The movies they make might be interesting in their own ways or whatever. But what I want is those two in those roles. Anything else just won't do it for me.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 30 Sep 2018, 16:37
My attachment to the DCEU is dead. Cavill as Superman and Affleck as Batman is what I wanted. If we're not getting that (and it's 50/50 at this point, I'd say) then the enterprise is dead for me. The movies they make might be interesting in their own ways or whatever. But what I want is those two in those roles. Anything else just won't do it for me.
Ditto.
Ugh. James Gunn is apparently writing Suicide Squad 2.
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.smh.com.au/entertainment/movies/james-gunn-fired-from-guardians-to-write-new-suicide-squad-20181010-p508qb.html
f*** you Wb. >:(
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon, 24 Sep 2018, 03:26
for reasons which I sincerely don't believe are entirely WB's fault, Marvel has a virtual monopoly on continuity-laden, shared universe type stuff.
Following the news over Daredevil's cancellation, I can't help but feel Marvel/Disney has had a negative influence in Hollywood's current copycat mentality. The results have been disastrous:
- Cancelling The Amazing-Spider-Man series with Andrew Garfield in favour of the MCU's teeny-bopper nonsense starring Tom Holland.
- Inspiring Warner Butchers to meddle in Suicide Squad AND Justice League's productions with reshoots that had drastically changed the original vision of each film with attempts to make them lighter, even replacing Snyder with Whedon, which resulted in diminishing returns. Not to mention scrapping what Snyder originally envisioned for the future of the DCEU.
- The destruction of the Marvel Netflix brand, thanks to politics behind the scenes, as I've read.
- Dumbing down the MCU films with cheap comedy and characters either becoming a copy of Tony Stark or a just complete parody. Only a couple of films stood above from the much in Phase Three, in my opinion. Sadly, it seems every time people think of a Marvel movie nowadays, they don't think of films like the never-compromising bravery or coming of age like in the Phase One films. Instead, it's only about how quippy and "funny" everything is. Because apparently that's how you make a shared universe.
It's so frustrating.
EDIT: I'm not an X-Men fan, but special mention should out go to the Fox X-Men fans agitated about the Disney takeover.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Fri, 30 Nov 2018, 11:55
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon, 24 Sep 2018, 03:26
for reasons which I sincerely don't believe are entirely WB's fault, Marvel has a virtual monopoly on continuity-laden, shared universe type stuff.
Following the news over Daredevil's cancellation, I can't help but feel Marvel/Disney has had a negative influence in Hollywood's current copycat mentality. The results have been disastrous:
- Cancelling The Amazing-Spider-Man series with Andrew Garfield in favour of the MCU's teeny-bopper nonsense starring Tom Holland.
- Inspiring Warner Butchers to meddle in Suicide Squad AND Justice League's productions with reshoots that had drastically changed the original vision of each film with attempts to make them lighter, even replacing Snyder with Whedon, which resulted in diminishing returns. Not to mention scrapping what Snyder originally envisioned for the future of the DCEU.
- The destruction of the Marvel Netflix brand, thanks to politics behind the scenes, as I've read.
- Dumbing down the MCU films with cheap comedy and characters either becoming a copy of Tony Stark or a just complete parody. Only a couple of films stood above from the much in Phase Three, in my opinion. Sadly, it seems every time people think of a Marvel movie nowadays, they don't think of films like the never-compromising bravery or coming of age like in the Phase One films. Instead, it's only about how quippy and "funny" everything is. Because apparently that's how you make a shared universe.
It's so frustrating.
EDIT: I'm not an X-Men fan, but special mention should out go to the Fox X-Men fans agitated about the Disney takeover.
I've wanted an adaptation of Daredevil worthy of my respect for quite some time now. Netflix finally gave it to me.
I've also wanted Marvel as a multimedia property to suffer some type of setback. I might have preferred that the setback affect something that isn't Daredevil. But Marvel is finally experiencing a setback now.
The death of the Netflixverse (which is what we're basically looking at here) may have had BTS causes but it's still a public setback for Marvel. A lot of fans and even a bunch of normies are ticked off about these cancellations. It's a bit of a black eye for Marvel as a brand.
As to X-Men, I enjoy some of the movies and some of the comics. Does that make me an X-Men fan? I don't know. What I do know is that I resent the Disney buyout precisely because of how it will affect the X-Men. I liked things just fine the way they were. X-Men was the only comic book movie series that I had any real investment in anymore. And now it looks like it'll become just another MCU shlockfest property. No thanks.
The more news I read about Snyder's cut of Justice League, the more disgust I feel for what Warner Butchers have done.
If the current circumstances were similar to Burton and Keaton leaving the Batman franchise back in the 90s, okay, I might've tolerated things better. While it was still a shame we didn't get a third Batman movie with those two, at least they can peacefully say they left because of creative differences. Say what you will about Warner Butchers back then, but at least they were upfront with the new direction they wanted to take the franchise, for better or worse. Nobody was deceived, it is what it is.
Twenty years later, however, their PR expertise has gone to sh*t. It's bad enough that fans were lied to regarding the circumstances surrounding JL when it was coming out, but the new revelations over the last couple of months have made the situation even MORE unbearable.
Making actors sign NDAs to keep quiet over their roles in the movie getting cut, as it was revealed Ray Porter was cast as Darkseid? The director himself confirming that his real cut of the movie is complete? And is still not released despite the fact he obeyed the studio's request to compromise his two-part saga - and five movie story arc overall - following the overreaction over BvS? That's what boggles my mind - he was allowed to make the movie and complete it, but then they STILL decided to reshoot it - with his name on it!
No. None of that is acceptable. What's next? Actors not getting paid for their work in the movie? Judging by this pathetic excuse for a corporation's conduct recently, I wouldn't put it past them. If they really didn't want Snyder directing JL, they should've just delayed production and remove him. Normally sacking somebody would be a humiliating experience, but under the circumstances, it would've been a lot more dignifying than this whole ordeal everybody has been put through.
Some of you will say we need to move on and look forward to other movies the studio is putting out, but frankly, I think it's a terrible idea. It shows that what they did is okay, it tells them undermining creative integrity is justified as long as they think they can make more money. And you know what? They'll do it again. The next movie coming out that doesn't make the money they want and get the reviews they want will result in mismanagement of the sequel, with more meddling and more reshoots just to satisfy a fickle audience that will still criticise it, and wreck the director's actual vision. And once again, we'll be left with an inferior product than what was promised.
Yes, I know I'm repeating myself for what feels like the hundredth time already, but because of this corporation's attitude, I don't ever want to see a new DC movie - or ANY new movie - that studio produces ever again. Once again, it's going to take enormous goodwill to repair this PR damage for me to ever trust them again. Maybe releasing the Snyder cut is a good place to start. Maybe. But until then, that corporation can go to hell.
(https://i.imgur.com/IB0LgeN.gif)
WB still has no plan in place. Despite recent reshuffles over the past couple of years I see no clear vision. The only plan seems to be lets throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks - which is all fine and well, but we could end up staring at a wall with incoherent mess all over it.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Wed, 15 May 2019, 13:18
What's next? Actors not getting paid for their work in the movie? Judging by this pathetic excuse for a corporation's conduct recently, I wouldn't put it past them.
And so, that guess of mine appears to be spot on. Nick McKinless, who played the younger Ares in JL, not only didn't get credit for his work - it's claimed he didn't get
paid either.
https://screenrant.com/justice-leagues-real-ares-actor-wasnt-credited-heres-happened/
So, Warner announced nobody for their upcoming movies will be making an appearance at Hall H for this year's SDCC, on the the same day that god awful teaser poster for the WW sequel. The cynic in me suspects this was done to distract people from the news over DC's lack of presence at Comic Con.
Meanwhile, the Swamp Thing show has already been cancelled after just debuting its debut season on the DC Universe app.
https://deadline.com/2019/06/swamp-thing-canceled-dc-universe-1-season-1202628103/
Now just like the #ReleaseTheSnyderCut tag erupted after JL's theatrical cut was released, the #SaveSwampThing tag has erupted following that news.
https://boundingintocomics.com/2019/06/06/fans-campaign-to-saveswampthing-after-reports-warner-bros-cancelled-the-dc-universe-show-after-one-episode/
Oh, I've been hearing rumours of a Supergirl movie in development - even suggesting production could get started next year. So, we have no new Superman movieis on the horizon, but there's a better chance his cousin will hit the big screen? The way Hollywood has been going recently, I expect if Supergirl goes get made, it will consist of heavy-handed feminist propaganda that will alienate male audiences.
Warner Butchers, and perhaps their parent company AT&T need a f***ing good kick up the ass. Just stop making DC content, you incompetent deceitful hacks.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Fri, 7 Jun 2019, 04:04
So, Warner announced nobody for their upcoming movies will be making an appearance at Hall H for this year's SDCC, on the the same day that god awful teaser poster for the WW sequel. The cynic in me suspects this was done to distract people from the news over DC's lack of presence at Comic Con.
Meanwhile, the Swamp Thing show has already been cancelled after just debuting its debut season on the DC Universe app.
https://deadline.com/2019/06/swamp-thing-canceled-dc-universe-1-season-1202628103/
Now just like the #ReleaseTheSnyderCut tag erupted after JL's theatrical cut was released, the #SaveSwampThing tag has erupted following that news.
https://boundingintocomics.com/2019/06/06/fans-campaign-to-saveswampthing-after-reports-warner-bros-cancelled-the-dc-universe-show-after-one-episode/
Oh, I've been hearing rumours of a Supergirl movie in development - even suggesting production could get started next year. So, we have no new Superman movieis on the horizon, but there's a better chance his cousin will hit the big screen? The way Hollywood has been going recently, I expect if Supergirl goes get made, it will consist of heavy-handed feminist propaganda that will alienate male audiences.
Warner Butchers, and perhaps their parent company AT&T need a f***ing good kick up the ass. Just stop making DC content, you incompetent deceitful hacks.
I'm still annoyed by the TV show. Fans of it don't seem to realize that like 90% of the characters, storylines, subplots, concepts and so forth are jacked straight out of various Superman comics. She'll probably get killed by Doomsday at some point.
A cisgender, sexist, alt-right Doomsday, of course.
I've only seen three episodes of Supergirl: the pilot, the first crossover with the Flash and Superman's first appearance. which was nothing more but an over-the-top Donner love letter. The show never appealed to me, but I'm disappointed to hear it has jumped on the SJW bandwagon. But then again, I stopped watching the Arrowverse midway the Invasion crossover because of time and lack of motivation, so maybe all the shows have gotten worse.
At this stage, Superman's last movie appearance was that dumb headless cameo scene in Shazam, and it looks unlikely he'll return any time soon. (https://www.batman-online.com/forum/Themes/batmanonlinecom_default/images/post/thumbdown.gif)
I've been championing WB allowing the DCEU to extend outside of a MCU-like cinematic continuity for awhile now, so yeah, I would be on board for that. It's clear that WB has absolutely ZERO faith in their properties, and then you throw in WB's ZERO patience program, and the recipe for disaster was clearly unavoidable.
DC's animated movies, that's been going since, what, 2007? Have instituted this approach with little to no confusion. I think the general audiences that attend theater showings could easily accept this approach as well. If anything, the continuous state of reboots/remakes/revivials ect over the years have, if anything, trained movie goers to accept different continuities/approaches in franchises. Let the MCU keep it's shared universe, WB should allow DC to exploit their Extended universe.
But this is WB we are talking about. Having the backs of people they put in charge isn't, and hasn't been in their character historically.
Now I hear, JJ Abrams is going to either direct a DC movie, and/or WB wants him to oversee the DCEU now?
Haha! Think real hard about that one, JJ. You better have a plan, and even if you do, your role as director/overseer better do MCU numbers right off the bat, or you're getting kicked to the curb. We already know what the online critic communities inclination is.
An angry mob needs to form, gather some torches and pitch forks, and run JJ Abrams out of town.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 19 Jun 2019, 03:30
An angry mob needs to form, gather some torches and pitch forks, and run JJ Abrams out of town.
An angry mob needs to form and burn Warner to the ground. Mission Impossible director Christopher McQuarrie revealed he delivered a proposal for a Green Lantern movie AND a pitch for a MOS sequel together with Henry Cavill two years ago, but Warner turned both ideas down. Not only did he suggest both proposed movies were to be connected (obviously set in the DCEU), but he gave a rather damning description of Warner's attitude: "The studios have never cared for my original ideas. They prefer that I fix their broken ones."
Source: https://screenrant.com/superman-green-lantern-movie-christopher-mcquarrie/
I saw these comments on his Twitter account, but he deleted them soon after. My only guess why he decided to remove them was maybe he regretted doing so after he got caught up in the heat of the moment, and didn't want to face any conflict with Warner behind closed doors. Well, too late. He shared what he experienced with the world, and I for one am glad he did. It reaffirms my lack of confidence in that company once again.
I heard a fan suggesting Warner had rejected McQuarrie's proposals because they wanted to get payback over Cavill's mustache clause while filming MI: Fallout, and were forced to try to CGI it out in those damn reshoots. Well then maybe they should've delayed the film's release and wait for Cavill to finish filming Fallout before undergoing those reshoots. Or better yet, they shouldn't have tried to tamper with JL in the first place and release what Snyder was making.
Instead, the Snyder cut is still locked away from the public and Superman and Green Lantern's future cinematic prospects are dim. Way to go, Warner Butchers!
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 19 Jun 2019, 03:30
An angry mob needs to form, gather some torches and pitch forks, and run JJ Abrams out of town.
I hate to break it to you, but Abrams signed a multi million dollar deal with WarnerMedia the other day. He's not going anywhere.
https://www.newsarama.com/46911-jj-abrams-consolidates-projects-under-warnermedia-agreement.html
According to that ditz Grace Randolph, she heard a rumour that Abrams is in talks with the hacks over making a Superman movie:
Quote
I'm hearing that #JJAbrams and #WarnerBros are having a "conversation" about him doing a #Superman movie...
It might be #DCEU movie, it might be a stand alone "Elseworlds" style movie - basically whatever will get him to do it.
Seems #WB refuses to learn from their mistakes...
https://twitter.com/GraceRandolph/status/1174819397858447361
I got a better idea, how about stop making DC movies altogether?
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Fri, 20 Sep 2019, 11:52
According to that ditz Grace Randolph, she heard a rumour that Abrams is in talks with the hacks over making a Superman movie:
Quote
I'm hearing that #JJAbrams and #WarnerBros are having a "conversation" about him doing a #Superman movie...
It might be #DCEU movie, it might be a stand alone "Elseworlds" style movie - basically whatever will get him to do it.
Seems #WB refuses to learn from their mistakes...
If true, WB also refuses to learn Paramount's mistakes. And Disney's mistakes too.
I haven't trusted JJ since Trek '09.
I'm not sharing a link that gives that clickbait trash ComicBook.com any traffic, but I saw this quote by Jeffrey Dean Morgan saying he'd still be keen for a Flashpoint movie.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EFU07qwX4AQVsYv.jpg)
If Warner Butchers had any sense, they would've allowed the original plans for the DCEU to come to fruition i.e. the JL five part story arc, the Affleck solo etc, and then use the Flashpoint movie starring Morgan as Batman to reboot the whole franchise. But oh no no no no no, they had to ruin everything with their greed, impatience and boardroom politics.
While tweeting about Zack Snyder's recent BvS commentary last week, video game legend Ed Boon mentioned that Injustice would make a great film.
I wouldn't mind seeing an Injustice adaptation on the big screen, but let's get real. After all the fuss and over-exaggeration surrounding MOS and BvS, there's NO way Warner Butchers would invest any money into an adaptation that has Superman - parallel universe or not - killing the Joker, Lex, or even heroes such as Green Arrow and Shazam.
And that's not even taking into account how Superman becomes a tyrannical dictator. BvS's Knightmare scene was influenced by some aspects of Injustice: Gods Among Us with an evil Superman and stormtrooper army and that was met with hysteria, to the point that all explorations of that subplot was cut during the JL reshoots. So what hope is there that the video game could ever be adapted onto the big screen? Maybe if you "Marvelise" it with lousy comedy, but such a concept still requires an enormous budget to execute satisfactorily. Again, forget it. Big budgets is something those cheapskates at Warner Butchers aren't willing to do nowadays.
I feel like Snyder was already influenced pretty heavily on Injustice. It seemed like Injustice and TDKR were his biggest influences.
I agree. Speaking of TDKR, Snyder said in his recent commentary that he reckons making a live action adaptation is still doable and BvS doesn't negate the possibility.
But under the current circumstances with this studio? Forget it. Besides, the two-part animated feature is as good as it gets.
Should've posted this sooner. Didn't know where else to post this here anyway. But yeah, looks like Razorfist has joined the chorus of those predicting the end of the superhero fad.
I'm not trying to fan my own balls here. But I've been saying this same thing for a few years now. First is uncertainty with an unfamiliar genre, second comes the golden years, third comes the deconstruction and fourth comes the outright and undeniable decline. Obviously, there's overlap between those different phase. But that's basically what we're seeing in superhero cinema these days.
Anyway, he's Razorfist. Godf***ingspeed!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlk3-NtOFkk
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 10 Sep 2021, 15:15
I'm not trying to fan my own balls here. But I've been saying this same thing for a few years now. First is uncertainty with an unfamiliar genre, second comes the golden years, third comes the deconstruction and fourth comes the outright and undeniable decline. Obviously, there's overlap between those different phase. But that's basically what we're seeing in superhero cinema these days.
I'll see it when I believe it. But at the moment, Disney has thirty one MCU projects in development.
https://geekositymag.com/disney-has-31-mcu-projects-in-development/
Disregarding the Marvel Comics lawsuit for a moment, I reckon the comic book movie days will be numbered as soon as an MCU movie flops. Flops, as in, audiences completely reject it. Love it or hate it, the MCU has dominated the marketplace, and as soon as audiences stop tuning in and turning out in droves, that's when decline will really begin. Until that day comes, DC will try and compete.
Speaking of which, it's alleged by some scoopers that Discovery chief David Zaslav wants DC films to be closely connected as a shared universe, and is eager to throw big bucks to increase the budgets, whereas Walter Hamada wants to produce them as cheap as possible. It's rumoured that Zaslav is also concerned DC's supposed multiverse approach. One reason is he doesn't understand it, and the other reason is he feels DC is already too far behind compared to Marvel, as they not only will beat DC to the punch with No Way Home, but have established characters in their shared universe to fall back on. I don't trust Warner will do the whole multiverse concept properly, and the cynic in me suspects this is only a buzzword to make standalone movies that aren't connected, with the exception of a couple.
Meanwhile, as I mentioned in the Snyder cut HBO Max thread, the European promotional launch took the opportunity to highlight ZSJL as a "global phenomenon" while highlighting that and BvS as some of the most iconic movies in DC's library. It might not mean much in the grand scheme of things, other than it's the first time that HBO Max have publically recognised ZSJL as a success. How about that? The Hollywood pretends it doesn't exist, but it's a hit everywhere else. f***ing Emmerich.
The future of DC is uncertain at this point in time. But what is certain is as long as the likes of Emmerich and Hamada are there, they will continue to try and mimic the damn MCU formula. For example, that degenerate James Gunn has confirmed he's working on another DC project, which is currently a secret. So if you were hoping Warner would learn their lesson and stop hiring Marvel mercenaries, prepare to be disappointed, and get ready to enjoy more of Gunn's sh*tty toilet humour. f*** me.
https://ew.com/books/inside-dcs-plan-to-kill-the-justice-league/
First they announce the new video game Suicide Squad: Kill the Justice League.
Now they're announcing the new comic storyline Death of the Justice League.
This, in addition to the new Flashpoint Beyond comics written by DCEU saboteur Geoff Johns, fuels speculation Warner Butchers are really trying to get people into the idea of a DC universe without a proper Justice League. Assuming if The Flash movie is rebooting things, that is. (https://www.batman-online.com/forum/Themes/default/images/post/thumbdown.gif)
I found this amusing clip from a recent video by Grace Randolph, about her true thoughts on the state of the so-called "DCEU".
https://twitter.com/JugovicDario/status/1491200362627616768/video/1
Ten days ago, Variety reported that WBD is looking to overhaul DC Entertainment and wants to find their own Kevin Feige. Reading between the lines, it seems they want more of a cohesive universe, with some Elseworlds exceptions. The report also mentioned WBD felt Superman has been left languishing for far too long. Without wanting to jump to any conclusions, we have to wait and see what WBD has in mind.
https://twitter.com/JamesGunn/status/1585005421487882240
How the f*** do you go from getting Cavill back as Superman to this disgraceful news, in a day?! WBD just shot its credibility by choosing this degenerate as the co-leader of its DC division.
An absolute disgrace. They might as well reinstate the Batgirl film. >:(
I dunno, I don't hate James Gunn, but I'm not a huge fan either. I just hope the DCU doesn't turn into a big joke machine, similar to the MCU.
This is a very "wait and see" for me.
Quote from: Travesty on Wed, 26 Oct 2022, 13:49
I dunno, I don't hate James Gunn, but I'm not a huge fan either. I just hope the DCU doesn't turn into a big joke machine, similar to the MCU.
This is a very "wait and see" for me.
If there was "like" button on this site. I'd use it for Travesty's post.
Quote from: GBglide on Fri, 28 Oct 2022, 03:54
Quote from: Travesty on Wed, 26 Oct 2022, 13:49
I dunno, I don't hate James Gunn, but I'm not a huge fan either. I just hope the DCU doesn't turn into a big joke machine, similar to the MCU.
This is a very "wait and see" for me.
If there was "like" button on this site. I'd use it for Travesty's post.
I'll be interested to see what happens with the Ayer cut given Gunn previously tweeted that he'd "be okay with whatever @DavidAyerMovies & Warners wanted to release with that no problem."
QuoteAnd at that time, he was not incorrect. Warner Bros. was indeed developing a sequel for 2013's Man of Steel and actively meeting with writers. Andy Muschietti, who directed Flash, even expressed interest in sitting behind the camera for something that would have brought a tone similar to the hopeful and heroic colors of the 1978 movie directed by Richard Donner, considered a benchmark in comic book movies. In fact, the current leadership team at Warner Bros Pictures — Michael De Luca and Pamela Abdy — did desire one more go-around of the Snyderverse heroes, possibly even having another Justice League movie with those actors.
But that was before Gunn and Safran began formulating their new (and still in flux) plan.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-features/wonder-woman-3-not-moving-forward-dc-movies-1235276804/
May Gunn and Safran get cursed for the rest of their days.
BTW, Gal Gadot seemed uninformed that WW3 got cancelled, judging by this tweet the day before.
https://twitter.com/GalGadot/status/1600181707826946050
Yeah, good luck getting excited over anything DC going forward if this reboot goes through. A disastrous state of affairs.
Regardless of the movies as a whole, the stars have pretty much been widely embraced by audiences. Cavill, Gadot, Affleck, Mamoa, Levi, Robbie, and Johnson have all been accepted in their interpretations of the iconic heroes. The only outright flops have been Miller and Heard (though that's mostly been after the fact). The point is that they already sold the audience on the casting; they just need some stellar films to get the series back on track. Recasting the roles for reboots is a huge unnecessary risk.
https://twitter.com/JamesGunn/status/1601635899925676032
Gunn is such an unprofessional jackass. I don't care if somebody is trolling and doubling down on gossip and lies, resorting to childish insults as an executive is not a good look at all. But then again, what do you expect from this man judging by his past tweets, if you know what I mean?
Quote from: Slash Man on Sat, 10 Dec 2022, 02:23
Regardless of the movies as a whole, the stars have pretty much been widely embraced by audiences. Cavill, Gadot, Affleck, Mamoa, Levi, Robbie, and Johnson have all been accepted in their interpretations of the iconic heroes. The only outright flops have been Miller and Heard (though that's mostly been after the fact). The point is that they already sold the audience on the casting; they just need some stellar films to get the series back on track. Recasting the roles for reboots is a huge unnecessary risk.
As I posted on the Flash thread, all this talk of recasting roles for reboots is causing people to freak out in Hollywood.
Quote
Wednesday's DC chaos about the unplugging of Patty Jenkins' version of Wonder Woman 3 coupled with rampant rumors of the studio's new co-heads James Gunn and Peter Safran turning the comic book label upside down sans a Henry Cavill Man of Steel 2 and possible re-casting of many current big superhero roles has left the town with a bad case of PTSD.
The lack of communication to talent reps and content creators by the studio about what's next in the DC empire, as Gunn and Safran map it out, has brought back bad flashbacks of when former WarnerMedia CEO Jason Kilar surprised and alienated Hollywood with his "Project Popcorn" theatrical day-and-date plan, and even Disney CEO Bob Chapek's war with Scarlett Johansson over Black Widow.
"This is creating a riot," says one content maker connected to DC fare about the level of silence they've received on the fate of their DC projects going forward. "And it's a horrible optic. This business is based on relationships."
When it comes to the rumors out there that core DC superhero castmembers Gal Gadot (Wonder Woman), Jason Momoa (Aquaman) and Henry Cavill (Superman) might be recast as the Gunn-Safran administration creates a synergistic plan for the DC brand across all mediums, our source says: "These franchises which already make a lot of money — why stop them? How can a studio that's bearing so much debt afford to start from scratch? There are scripts and actors' schedules to be figured out."
https://deadline.com/2022/12/dc-wonder-woman-james-gunn-man-of-steel-1235193778/
Cavill, in particular, reportedly filmed a scene in The Flash, but that's now on hold until a decision with the whole franchise is made. As I have been repeatedly asking, why the hell is WBD spending more money on additional photography and reshoots on movies that aren't part of their long-term agenda? Nothing about this makes any sense.
The way I see it, so many people are going to be paid with compensation if their contracts are declared null and void before a reboot can be fast-tracked. I just don't know if WBD, with all their financial woes, can even afford to do it, when they've already added further investment to the movies they've inherited after the merger. It's mind-boggling.
Rereading my original post, I find I still like most of those ideas. Esp the Barry Allen and John Stewart ideas.
I'm also struck by the passage of time. It was pretty obvious that the DCEU was DOA when Josstice League came out. Five years ago.
We're pretty much in the exact same position now as November 2017. Absolutely nothing's changed. Nothing significant anyway.
So true. It limped on after the original foundations were blown apart with Snyder's absence. Affleck and Cavill did return, but only for cameos at death knell of the universe. Apart from the opening gambit (MoS, BvS, WW, ZSJL and SS's original vision) nothing that followed excited me in the same way. Hand on heart...nothing. The only films that reached those heights were Joker and The Batman. That's the template that should be followed: less rapid release schedules and a more mature tone. Snyder definitely had the latter, and also the right idea by playing up DC's mythology rather than trying to imitate the Marvel gag routine. Snyder can still hold his head up high - the real villain here is gutlessness and indecision. That continued long after he vacated the scene.
It sucks, but relieving at the same time. Interesting times ahead. I guess a new Superman movie is what's going to jump start it. Gunn said he'll share his entire plan in about 2 weeks, so I'll see what he has in store for us. I just hope they're ditching the Ta-Nehisi Coates script/idea, cause that dude is just aggressively racist, in a very Progressive sense. So we'll see....
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 15 Dec 2022, 13:37
Rereading my original post, I find I still like most of those ideas. Esp the Barry Allen and John Stewart ideas.
I'm also struck by the passage of time. It was pretty obvious that the DCEU was DOA when Josstice League came out. Five years ago.
We're pretty much in the exact same position now as November 2017. Absolutely nothing's changed. Nothing significant anyway.
There were times the DCEU could've been brought back on track, the latest when Pam Abdy and Michael De Luca were reportedly willing to work with the Snyderverse actors again before Gunn and Safran f***ed everything up. It's quite telling how Whedon and Gunn, both Marvel personnel, played a huge part in sabotaging DC. It makes you wonder, doesn't it?
This video sums up the whole situation surrounding DC Studios quite well.
***WARNING: NSFW due to strong language.***https://youtu.be/fVC2BuHoZA0
So what do you think about the new James Gunn announcement for the new DCU? I'm excited about the new DCU Batman, more Matt Reeves Batman, this new Superman, the Lanterns TV show, and Swamp Thing. Overall, it looks like a good roadmap. Hopefully it all pans out and everything is quality. So we'll have to see.
If you haven't seen it yet, here's a link:
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-features/james-gunn-unveils-dc-slate-batman-superman-1235314176/
QuoteThe Authority: A movie based on a team of superheroes with rather extreme methods of protecting the planet that first originated in the late 1990s under an influential imprint known as Wildstorm, run by artist and now head of DC publishing Jim Lee. "One of the things of the DCU is that it's not just a story of heroes and villains," said Gunn. "Not every film and TV show is going to be about good guy versus bad guy, giant things from the sky come and good guy wins. There are white hats, black hats and gray hats." Added Safran: "They are kinda like Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men. They know that you want them on the wall. Or at least they believe that."
Booster Gold: An HBO Max series based on a unique, lesser-known hero created in 1986. Safran said of the series, "It's about a loser from the future who uses basic future technology to come back to today and pretend to be a superhero." Gunn described it as "imposter syndrome as superhero."
Swamp Thing: A horror film that promises to close out the first part of the first chapter.
These sound interesting. The rest... eh.
A few months ago, I decided to finally start reading Alan Moore's Swamp Thing stuff. A film along those lines sounds awesome.
Quote from: Travesty on Tue, 31 Jan 2023, 23:20
So what do you think about the new James Gunn announcement for the new DCU? I'm excited about the new DCU Batman, more Matt Reeves Batman, this new Superman, the Lanterns TV show, and Swamp Thing. Overall, it looks like a good roadmap. Hopefully it all pans out and everything is quality. So we'll have to see.
If you haven't seen it yet, here's a link:
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-features/james-gunn-unveils-dc-slate-batman-superman-1235314176/
I think Booster Gold has a solid concept. I can't really comment on the Superman movie because there's nothing much to go on. It's been said a million times already but a lot will come down to the casting. I'm glad Pattinson is confirmed to be seperate, and think the Brave and the Bold has potential. Especially if it's in the vein of T-Rex, giant coin, less tank and more style.
Oof. A mixed bag.
----
The Authority
No interest. I expect "The Suicide Squad" numbers with this one.
Creature Commandos
Surprise. Surprise. More quirky material that Gunn gravitates towards. Only in animated form.
Amanda Waller
I like Viola Davis in the part just fine, but this wholeheartedly confirms Gunn's prior work remains safe, as does his wife's job.
Green Lantern
Could do good numbers on HBO Max.
Swamp Thing
Peculiar choice. Especially given the DCEU string of flops with more A list properties even. Cautiously optimistic.
The Brave and the Bold
So, kinda like Ben Affleck where we have another established Batman, only with probably some Bat-Family members, and the bastard son? Eh, ok. As "The Batman" showed, Batman can be counted on pulling a certain amount of numbers at the box office. I wonder if Batman will be having some sort of sub-plot, given this is apparently an ensemble movie, where he has to learn to warm to others and trust his allies easier, especially 'when' the brat inevitably finds himself entrapped by the big bad?
I see Grant Morrison and Tom King are exceptional influencers on this. Tom King. Out of all the creators in 80+ years to pull from? Christ.
Superman: Legacy
I'm "whatever" on this. Though to see Twitter's autistic reaction towards Safran referring to Superman as the embodiment of 'Truth, Justice, and the American Way' has been pretty amusing I have to admit.
Supergirl: Woman of Tomorrow
Edgy Supergirl? Yay.
Paradise Lost
A show about Paradise Island/Themyscira before the birth of Diana? Which is very unlike the story line in the comics by the same name. Sounds like Syfy's "Krypton" show to me, but with probably more or a budget and a "All female" cast too. I'm sure the RT critic score will be pretty good towards this. For whatever that's worth.
Booster Gold
I like the character, but Dan Jurgens really needs to be apart of the show's writing, and not just as a 'creative consultant' for PR purposes only.
----
The over/under on all this actually playing out should be interesting at least.
Don't be fooled by the fancy title of "Chapter One: Gods & Monsters", this pitiful excuse for a slate has absolutely no direction whatsoever. It's the same old stuff by Warners - throwing crap on the wall to see what sticks.
People criticise the original Snyderverse plan for rushing things to quick, but at least you got to see the Justice League. In contrast, this random nonsense doesn't have any JL plans in sight. Instead of building anything up, we get more redundant Superman and Batman reboots and nonsensical spin-offs of Amanda Waller. The fact that Viola Davis is reprising her role goes to show what I thought from the beginning: this reboot is already a farce. This is nothing more than Gunn keeping his favourites. Ignore audiences asking and wanting to see more of Cavill, Affleck, the DC Trinity or Keaton's Batman in a proper continuation, let's go and satisfy creepy Gunn's ego-stroking instead. How pathetic.
Given that WBD is currently $50 billion in debt, don't be surprised if most of these announcements won't ever get off the ground anyway. If they do get filmed, I can't see WBD financing all of this independently. Besides, all it takes is for one film to flop and Warner will repeat the reactionary tradition of cancelling stuff.
Ha, when you have cartoons on Netflix taking the piss ouf of Warners' incompetence, you know the company is in terrible shape. Failing upwards indeed.
NSFW, BTW.
https://mobile.twitter.com/kayivar/status/1604221236934225920
Quote from: The Joker on Wed, 1 Feb 2023, 05:02
I see Grant Morrison and Tom King are exceptional influencers on this. Tom King. Out of all the creators in 80+ years to pull from? Christ.
Yeah, I'm not a fan of seeing Tom King's name thrown around, either. Granted, I haven't read everything by him, but all of his Batman stuff has been really bad. But it looks like as far as Batman goes for this new DCU, they're taking more influence from Grant Morrison, which I'm fine with. Tom King's influences seem to be more towards Supergirl, which, I haven't read his Supergirl stuff. I'm not much a fan of that character to begin with.
I agree. I'm fine with the Morrison elements but I've found King to be atrocious in the quality of his work and his very being. I'm hopeful the Batman reboot goes in the Clayface, Man-Bat type direction, which would also fit with the statement of giving other characters their time to shine on the big screen. Joker, Riddler and Two-Face are important, but there's more going on than just those types. Filling out the world with established monsters that usually appear in animation would be a big point of difference from anything we've seen before.
Quote from: Travesty on Wed, 1 Feb 2023, 15:32
Yeah, I'm not a fan of seeing Tom King's name thrown around, either. Granted, I haven't read everything by him, but all of his Batman stuff has been really bad. But it looks like as far as Batman goes for this new DCU, they're taking more influence from Grant Morrison, which I'm fine with. Tom King's influences seem to be more towards Supergirl, which, I haven't read his Supergirl stuff. I'm not much a fan of that character to begin with.
Morrison is kinda hit and miss with me. I didn't hate his run on the Bat-books, but definitely wasn't in love with it either. I'm aware that
a lot of people seem to think Morrison's take on Batman is definitive for them, so it is what it is. Though, admittedly, Morrison's a damn sight better than Tom King as a storyteller. The fact that a douche like King is being given the opportunity to stink up yet another medium, and another cinematic Supergirl as well, that's also going to be seen by many more people, is just
really unfortunate.
Some people just fail upwards. That's pretty clear with Warners.
But... Tom f'n King? Didn't Peter David have a pretty long run on Supergirl? I know this was during the Post-Crisis era, and thus wasn't featuring the usual Kara Zor-El for the most part, but it would seem like there would be plenty of material to draw from with David's run that rather than literally scraping the bottom of the barrel!
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 1 Feb 2023, 21:06
I agree. I'm fine with the Morrison elements but I've found King to be atrocious in the quality of his work and his very being. I'm hopeful the Batman reboot goes in the Clayface, Man-Bat type direction, which would also fit with the statement of giving other characters their time to shine on the big screen. Joker, Riddler and Two-Face are important, but there's more going on than just those types. Filling out the world with established monsters that usually appear in animation would be a big point of difference from anything we've seen before.
If having two separate live action Batman franchises going is unavoidable (and it looks like that's where things are going), then it only makes sense to make them as different from each other as possible. Your approach for the DCU version seems the most logical to me. Just do the opposite of what Reeves is doing. I would even go so far as to use a batsuit with blue and grey elements, yellow oval, yellow belt, etc. Make something colorful and fantastical.
The real test will when the new films start premiering and if they underperform, much like Gunn's The Suicide Squad. Telling everyone you have a ten year plan is okay at the moment because you're apparently communicating transparency and competency. There isn't any serious heat right now as they have breathing room and everything is conceptual. But if things aren't a raging fire of success, that extensive plan quickly becomes a burden. Do you persevere no matter what? If the initial films don't bring enthusiasm, and people don't like the casting, it will be a battle very early on, and one that would be hard to build from.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 2 Feb 2023, 21:29The real test will when the new films start premiering and if they underperform, much like Gunn's The Suicide Squad. Telling everyone you have a ten year plan is okay at the moment because you're apparently communicating transparency and competency. There isn't any serious heat right now as they have breathing room and everything is conceptual. But if things aren't a raging fire of success, that extensive plan quickly becomes a burden. Do you persevere no matter what? If the initial films don't bring enthusiasm, and people don't like the casting, it will be a battle very early on, and one that would be hard to build from.
Indeed.
I wouldn't want this job. But if I had the job and if people didn't embrace my direction overnight, I'd remind everyone that most of Marvel's Phase One technically underperformed. The Incredible Hulk, Thor and Cap weren't exactly box office bonanzas. They did well enough. But they didn't break any records. The first Iron Man films and the Avengers were the big successes. And yet, nobody thought about scrapping the MCU at that point.
That would be my answer. If I had the job. Which I don't. And never will. But that's what I would say.
I read that Gunn and Safran want the DCU actors to reprise their roles in video games and animation. A character artist called Del, who works for the studio that made the game The Last of Us, explains why this is such a stupid and unrealistic idea.
Quote
James Gunn just stated that DC want the film, games, and animation characters to be consistent and played by the same actors. I'll never work on a DC title ever again if that's upheld. You've lost your mind if you think Hollywood can outdo @tarastrong's Harley or any VA actor.
These writers and voice actors do 100 versions of everything. They are in the booth doing 600 lines of dialogue just to end up with 20 of the best in the game. You think you're going to get Robert Pattinson to outwork a VA actor? And for a budget that makes sense?
Good luck.
Games & Cartoons are not 2 hour Pixar films. These mediums have thousands of lines. Hours of dialogue.
The only 2 movie actors that I've seen keep up are Mark Hamill's, Joker and Haley Joel Osment's, Sora. And they became full VA actors. They cleared their schedule for years.
https://twitter.com/TheCartelDel/status/1620513280711360519
Proper video games - not cheap mobile games - are not something that can be mass-produced so easily. Some of these games take many years to develop. Jedi Fallen Order, for example, took five years to get made. Yes, the sequel is taking much less development time, but that's because the experience and the work put into the first game allowed it for a much easier process.
This is simply Gunn's ego of wanting to dictate all areas of the DC brand, not having a clue whether or not it's even logistically possible. As if writing Superman and Creature Commandos when he's already the co-CEO isn't already bad enough.
In other news, WBD is under fire by the Writers' Guild for going back on promises for more opportunities for content creators. There is also speculation that a writers' strike is highly possible, which might be a big setback for the planned DCU TV announcements.
https://deadline.com/2023/01/wga-west-blasts-warner-bros-discovery-writers-strike-1235244477/
https://deadline.com/2023/01/as-writers-strike-looms-reality-producers-optimistic-unscripted-boom-1235241575/
While We Got This Covered is hardly the most reliable news source for the vast majority of the time, they claim a source in the industry is saying David Zaslav's decision-making is causing a lot of unrest.
Quote
Despite studios being able to cancel shows they see fit, it is still causing a ripple effect that could lead to another Hollywood writer's strike. One of the biggest perpetrators of canceling shows has been the CEO of Warner Bros. Discovery, David Zaslav. An unnamed TV agent stated, "It's more about him [Zaslav] in particular since he's taken over and what the hell's going on over there."
Everyone has certainly been questioning Zaslav's moves since he took over WBD, especially when it came to canceling Batgirl even though it was completed. Despite the current DC Films CEO Peter Safran backing the move to cancel the film, it made the company look as though they were willing to cancel anything at a moment's notice. That has certainly been the case with the myriad of cancelations that followed, which could lead to another Hollywood writer's strike.
We would imagine that Warner Bros. Discovery's moves made it harder for networks like AMC, Netflix, and Peacock to have casually trimmed the programs that weren't keeping up with the success of others. Now, a Hollywood writer's strike could be imminent, as many jobs have been lost in the past few months alone. The strike could then lead to many more shows being canceled.
A Hollywood writer's strike right now would cause many more issues, as more shows could be canceled if that were to happen. There cannot be scripted TV shows without the writers needed to keep said programs going. Should a strike occur, it would put a standstill on many media companies' release slates.
The biggest issue is that many of these media companies can cancel shows to turn them into tax write-offs, which is something that WBD has enacted more than others. Should a show not be performing to the highest caliber, that show could just be done away with so the studio behind it wouldn't have to shell out more money. It could then be turned into a write-off to ensure the studio receives some sort of profit back for the show's underperforming, but this fact could lead to the next Hollywood strike.
https://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/ent/hollywood-strike-tv-cancelations.html
Chuck Dixon is very skeptical about Gunn being chosen as the shepherd for DCU, going so far to say "I don't think he knows what the audience wants."
https://boundingintocomics.com/2023/02/09/legendary-dc-comics-writer-chuck-dixon-reacts-to-james-gunns-dcu-slate-i-dont-think-he-knows-what-the-audience-wants/
I'd say it's not so much that Gunn doesn't know, it's that he doesn't care.
Quote
Dixon then pivoted to wondering why James Gunn was picked to be the DC Studios CEO, "The choice of Gunn to basically be the basket they put all their eggs in, I don't understand it given his track record."
"Yes, he had enormous success with Guardians of the Galaxy, but if you look over the rest of the films he's been involved with it's okay. I mean they earned money. They weren't blockbusters. They weren't huge. Really, the only big thing he was involved with was the Guardians of the Galaxy franchise."
Dixon then opined, "While I find a lot of his stuff entertaining, over time you kind of see the notes coming. I'm kind of familiar with his repertoire. I don't see how it's going to translate to DC, and I don't understand why in an industry like entertainment where everything is about conservation of risk you would hand over everything to one guy."
"Now, I understand there's other films that in production that he won't be involved with, but the idea is, as I see it, is that once all of those films are finished and released everything coming out of DC in movies and television is going to be Gunn. All Gunn all the time. I just don't see how you can take a slate like that and have any hits. There's no diversity of thought or approach. Everything is going to be seen through the lens of one guy," he stated.
The only reason Gunn and Safran got these jobs is because nobody in Hollywood wanted the job. Now they're hired, they're just hijacking the stuff they want, not what most people want. Such as the angry reaction over Cavill's humiliation.
Sorry state of affairs.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 11 Feb 2023, 03:01
Chuck Dixon is very skeptical about Gunn being chosen as the shepherd for DCU, going so far to say "I don't think he knows what the audience wants."
https://boundingintocomics.com/2023/02/09/legendary-dc-comics-writer-chuck-dixon-reacts-to-james-gunns-dcu-slate-i-dont-think-he-knows-what-the-audience-wants/
I'd say it's not so much that Gunn doesn't know, it's that he doesn't care.
Quote
Dixon then pivoted to wondering why James Gunn was picked to be the DC Studios CEO, "The choice of Gunn to basically be the basket they put all their eggs in, I don't understand it given his track record."
"Yes, he had enormous success with Guardians of the Galaxy, but if you look over the rest of the films he's been involved with it's okay. I mean they earned money. They weren't blockbusters. They weren't huge. Really, the only big thing he was involved with was the Guardians of the Galaxy franchise."
Dixon then opined, "While I find a lot of his stuff entertaining, over time you kind of see the notes coming. I'm kind of familiar with his repertoire. I don't see how it's going to translate to DC, and I don't understand why in an industry like entertainment where everything is about conservation of risk you would hand over everything to one guy."
"Now, I understand there's other films that in production that he won't be involved with, but the idea is, as I see it, is that once all of those films are finished and released everything coming out of DC in movies and television is going to be Gunn. All Gunn all the time. I just don't see how you can take a slate like that and have any hits. There's no diversity of thought or approach. Everything is going to be seen through the lens of one guy," he stated.
The only reason Gunn and Safran got these jobs is because nobody in Hollywood wanted the job. Now they're hired, they're just hijacking the stuff they want, not what most people want. Such as the angry reaction over Cavill's humiliation.
Sorry state of affairs.
As per usual, there's a lot of credibility and syllogistic reasoning in what Mr. Dixon is saying.
I'm not at all surprised if this rumour is true: according to an insider, WBD and Gunn are bluffing on most of their recent DCU announcements and they're actually holding out for the biggest bidder in yet another planned merger, in order to fund other projects they haven't announced.
Here are some of the highlights that caught my eye.
Quote
He states, "Warner Bros. Discovery with both DC and Harry Potter is to soft reboot the franchises in order to make them seem more viable and healthy. However, rebooting them with projects that are highly interconnected and/or episodic in chronological consistency is not desired at this time."
"The reason might surprise," he asserts. "Warner Bros. Discovery allegedly expects to be purchased within the next three to five years. Therefore it is not in Warner Bros. Discovery's interest to craft huge franchise worlds like seen in the MCU because such a thing would make a potential buyer beholden to this new roadmap/story narrative."
"Instead, Warner Bros. Discovery allegedly feels the more lucrative option is to rejuvenate the franchises with non-connected properties while still unloading bad inventory so that when a company like Apple or Amazon when they purchase them potentially they get the benefits of a refreshed franchise plus the ability to craft their new cinematic universe in whatever way they choose," WDW Pro explains.
Quote
"Furthermore, Gunn may have been brought into the fold with this as the plan all along," he relayed. "Have fun with scrappy, passion projects in the short term then go crazy with huge movies once an Apple or Amazon budget comes spraying cash everywhere."
He then notes, "According to these sources of Warner Bros. Discovery, the later projects in this recent phase one reveal of DC may not even happen and that might be okay as part of the bigger picture."
Quote
Next, he reveals his source informed him that the plan James Gunn revealed for his DCU slate is merely Plan A and that there could be other plans in the works.
"I'm told that Gunn, Zaslov, Safran, they have a Plan A DC roadmap — everybody remember that terminology: Plan A DC roadmap — that only goes into effect if Apple or Amazon buy and approve, though it could be used in negotiations to show it's primed, it's unaffordable for Warner Bros. with its current situation, but an Apple or Amazon could fund it."
"By the way, all of this is the real reason I'm told Cavill was let go," he concluded. "They're in a hold until the big guns bring big money to the table."
When Chato questioned, "If they get the money they'd bring Cavill back in?"
WDW Pro further explained what he believes his source was communicating to him about Plan A, "I don't think so. I think that's too far off. I think what they're saying right now is there's no need for him to sit there waiting. They need to go ahead and rip that Band-aid off because this is going to be a years-long process."
He elaborated, "But that there is a huge — like James Gunn if he can get the budget he's already got it planned out, he and Safron, and Zaslav, what this would look like. And it seems to me like that Plan A that, 'Hey, if we had the ability to do $300 million budgets or whatever per movie this is what it would look like.' It sounds like that's in place and ready once they begin to have attempts to purchase Warner."
https://boundingintocomics.com/2023/02/10/james-gunns-dcu-slate-rumored-to-be-bait-for-potential-buyer-allegedly-has-secret-plan-in-case-apple-amazon-or-universal-gobble-up-warner-bros/
Figures, all this stuff like this animated Creature Commandos project appears to be nothing more but cheap content, approved by a debt-ridden company.
I question the wisdom how Zaslav and other exec could look at Gunn as a proven director when his latest film lost $100 million at the box office. As Chuck Dixon already pointed out, Gunn isn't much of an attraction without the MCU.
Previously Gunn said this:
(https://boundingintocomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/2023.03.16-02.40-boundingintocomics-64132a6fdbf77.png)
Now Affleck has said this:
QuoteI would not direct something for the [James] Gunn DC. Absolutely not. I have nothing against James Gunn. Nice guy, sure he's going to do a great job. I just wouldn't want to go in and direct in the way they're doing that. I'm not interested in that.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-features/ben-affleck-air-production-company-grammys-memes-justice-league-1235353301/
The "the way they're doing that" part sounds ominous. Ben knows the plan and wants nothing to do with it.
Completely understandable on Ben's part. What happened during the JL reshoots would be seared into your brain and you'd tell yourself never to forgot the agony of that moment. Imagine signing up for a new comic based film and having all that flood back, leaving you thinking why on Earth you came back for more. Staying away is the safe option. Especially when the new DCU will be even more interconnected than the DCEU ever was. Writing a script is one thing, but directing is another. Gunn has put a huge target on his back by doing both with Superman Legacy. I can't stress how much I wouldn't want that job. Superman fans aren't the easiest to please, and you have a vocal Cavill supporter base offside. If he doesn't bank big money and justify a reboot there will be nowhere to hide.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 16 Mar 2023, 21:01
Superman fans aren't the easiest to please
They're the pickiest fanbase I've ever seen. I can't tell you how many times I've seen Superman fans say they've never liked a single live-action Superman movie. They get upset if the costume isn't the right shade of blue, and they all want a different shade of blue. And yet, they try to tell you how simple it is to "get right".
Yeah, good luck Gunn. lol
Quote from: Travesty on Fri, 17 Mar 2023, 02:35
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 16 Mar 2023, 21:01
Superman fans aren't the easiest to please
They're the pickiest fanbase I've ever seen. I can't tell you how many times I've seen Superman fans say they've never liked a single live-action Superman movie. They get upset if the costume isn't the right shade of blue, and they all want a different shade of blue. And yet, they try to tell you how simple it is to "get right".
Yeah, good luck Gunn. lol
The problem is that Superman fans are a bit spoiled for choice. Donner, Singer, Lois & Clark, Smallville, STAS, George Reeves, Superman & Lois, Snyder, the list just goes on. And that's just external media.
With comics, you've got the Golden Age, late Golden Age, Silver Age, Bronze Age, Post-Crisis, New Earth/Secret Origin, Birthright, All-Star Superman, Earth One, New 52, the Miller/Romita Superman- Year One etc.
All that stuff works together to form divisions in the Superman fanbase. "I am of Byrne's MOS", "I am of Snyder's MOS", "I am of the Silver Age", "I am of Christopher Reeve", etc. There's no unifying force to hold everything together.
Mind you, the other way of looking at it is that there are hardcore Fantastic Four fans who would probably LOVE to have the Superman fanbase's problems of having too many choices.
Look at how spoilt for choice Batman fans are with different divisions of preference. I think it really comes down to the power of the 78 film. That's the unifying force for a lot of people, and then you have others who push back against it, which creates a wrestle. We saw it plain as day during the Snyder era. The fanbase has a war between old and new, light and dark - but the dark wasn't as pitch black as it was purported to be.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 17 Mar 2023, 04:27
Mind you, the other way of looking at it is that there are hardcore Fantastic Four fans who would probably LOVE to have the Superman fanbase's problems of having too many choices.
Tell me about it. At this point the unreleased 1994 FF movie is the best we have, in my opinion. It has a nice "B-movie" charm.
Not that 2005, 2007 and 2015 were much worse, they weren't.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 17 Mar 2023, 04:27
All that stuff works together to form divisions in the Superman fanbase. "I am of Byrne's MOS", "I am of Snyder's MOS", "I am of the Silver Age", "I am of Christopher Reeve", etc. There's no unifying force to hold everything together.
Well, if there's one thing that unites them, it's this one single panel they love to drop over and over again, like it's the basis for the character, lol. Granted, I don't hate the panel, but it's just so hackey seeing this exact panel constantly, with them claiming, "see, this is what we need in live-action. It's so easy".
(https://townsquare.media/site/622/files/2010/06/432supermanallstar10.jpg)
Quote from: Travesty on Fri, 17 Mar 2023, 14:57
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 17 Mar 2023, 04:27
All that stuff works together to form divisions in the Superman fanbase. "I am of Byrne's MOS", "I am of Snyder's MOS", "I am of the Silver Age", "I am of Christopher Reeve", etc. There's no unifying force to hold everything together.
Well, if there's one thing that unites them, it's this one single panel they love to drop over and over again, like it's the basis for the character, lol. Granted, I don't hate the panel, but it's just so hackey seeing this exact panel constantly, with them claiming, "see, this is what we need in live-action. It's so easy".
(https://townsquare.media/site/622/files/2010/06/432supermanallstar10.jpg)
It's a good page and I love it. Esp since that one action has gigantic ramifications later in the issue. I adore the Silver Age On Steroids approach of All-Star Superman.
But that's very much Superman As Mythical God. And I think there's plenty of room in the marketplace for Superman As A Vulnerable Man. But not everyone else in the fanbase agrees with that.
Sometimes I don't think the Superman fanbase is all that unique. It may be a more extreme example of division and stuff. But I think the more likely explanation for why Batman fans tend to be befuddled by Superman fans is because the Batman fanbase is a lot more unified and cohesive. Batman fans have their favorite incarnations, of course. But the fact that other incarnations of the character exist doesn't seem to cause anyone fatal offense.
The Batman fanbase is unique in that respect. Because other fanbases (such as Spider-Man) can get very contentious with each other. Superman is the worst (or best?) example of that. But they're not the only fanbase with that problem. In fact, I might say that Batman is the only fanbase that DOESN'T have that problem.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu, 16 Mar 2023, 16:40
Previously Gunn said this:
(https://boundingintocomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/2023.03.16-02.40-boundingintocomics-64132a6fdbf77.png)
Now Affleck has said this:
QuoteI would not direct something for the [James] Gunn DC. Absolutely not. I have nothing against James Gunn. Nice guy, sure he's going to do a great job. I just wouldn't want to go in and direct in the way they're doing that. I'm not interested in that.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-features/ben-affleck-air-production-company-grammys-memes-justice-league-1235353301/
The "the way they're doing that" part sounds ominous. Ben knows the plan and wants nothing to do with it.
Yeah, this comes across as shades of Keaton's departure from "Batman Forever".
Thanks, but at the same time, no thanks.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 17 Mar 2023, 15:22
Sometimes I don't think the Superman fanbase is all that unique. It may be a more extreme example of division and stuff. But I think the more likely explanation for why Batman fans tend to be befuddled by Superman fans is because the Batman fanbase is a lot more unified and cohesive. Batman fans have their favorite incarnations, of course. But the fact that other incarnations of the character exist doesn't seem to cause anyone fatal offense.
The Batman fanbase is unique in that respect. Because other fanbases (such as Spider-Man) can get very contentious with each other. Superman is the worst (or best?) example of that. But they're not the only fanbase with that problem. In fact, I might say that Batman is the only fanbase that DOESN'T have that problem.
Batman films have had two big heavyweights in my opinion, Burton and Nolan. That's why we saw a lot of the tension around 2005-2012. A newcomer came in to challenge the mantle and others found themselves preferring the new take. But that has largely dissipated, and in the long run these two sets of films existing has been good for the franchise. We now get to see a mixture of these influences, fantasy and militaristic 'realism' - Snyder's Batmobile is a good example of that blend, that doesn't put all the praise on just one interpretation, which is the case with live action Superman.
Even Man of Steel, with its points of aesthetic difference, relies on the structures of the first two Reeve films. Superman has content but a lot of it is now historical. The Reeve films, STAS, Dean Cain, Smallville and even Superman Returns aren't exactly current and the desire is always for something new. If Gunn wants a lighter Superman I'd rather he mimic STAS. But I can't see this journey being smooth sailing.
The briefs being removed with Batman happened without much fanfare, but with Superman it's a dogfight. There are fans who legitimately behave as if Superman shouldn't raise his fists and always be smiling. The extremes in the Superman fanbase are very hard to reconcile. With the passage of time Snyder is just going to look better in my eyes by pulling off the Band-Aid.
From yesterday. It looks like we may get to see ZSJL in theatres?
https://twitter.com/ZackSnyder/status/1639064549109424128?s=20
Zack Snyder
@ZackSnyder
Super excited for this incredible 3-day event to benefit AFSP. Look for the link to purchase your tickets tomorrow at 8am PDT. Thank you Warner Bros. for all your support helping to make this happen. #AFSP #FullCircle #Snyderverse #ArtCenter #WarnerBros #DC #AMCTheaters
They're trying to make Blue Beetle the potential first film of the new DCU - and I hope it's another flop. The trailer did nothing for me. It's just another Shazam formula film that feels so tired and predictable now. The director hasn't done himself any favors either. I'm suspecting the movie will make some money but I'm hoping it is reduced. People like this director don't like me, and I don't like him.
https://www.breitbart.com/entertainment/2023/04/05/dcs-blue-beetle-director-tweets-then-deletes-post-wishing-for-donald-trump-assassination/
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 5 Apr 2023, 21:18
They're trying to make Blue Beetle the potential first film of the new DCU - and I hope it's another flop. The trailer did nothing for me. It's just another Shazam formula film that feels so tired and predictable now. The director hasn't done himself any favors either. I'm suspecting the movie will make some money but I'm hoping it is reduced. People like this director don't like me, and I don't like him.
https://www.breitbart.com/entertainment/2023/04/05/dcs-blue-beetle-director-tweets-then-deletes-post-wishing-for-donald-trump-assassination/
At this point, Ted Kord may as well have never existed. Weird how Reyes is the only Blue Beetle who ever seems to get adapted.
As to Ángel Manuel Soto's tweet, I mean, what do you expect from a pig but a grunt? It's a stupid thing to tweet out to the whole world. But let's face it, Soto is in a community where saying stupid things like that costs him nothing.
Blue Beetle will bomb.
The writing's on the wall for the superhero genre. It's had its day. Joker and No Way Home are the only superhero movies released post-Endgame to cross the billion dollar mark. Most of DC's recent movies have all either tanked or barely broken even, and even the MCU is seeing diminishing box office returns and declining viewership for its increasingly poor TV content. The bubble has well and truly burst and general audiences want something different. There will always be a market for icons like Batman and Spider-Man, and a select few will continue making a profit, but the time has passed when you could churn out movies based on any C-list Marvel/DC properties and expect a gross north of $600 million.
I predict Joker 2 and The Flash might do all right, but the rest of DC's upcoming slate, including Aquaman 2 and James Gunn's Superman movie, will struggle and likely underperform.
The fact the director of Blue Beetle openly called for murder against a politician he doesn't like won't help matters. If someone from the other side of the aisle had written something similar, you can bet he'd have been given the Gina Carano treatment. Evidently the industry's moral outrage only flows in one direction.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu, 6 Apr 2023, 11:41
Blue Beetle will bomb.
The writing's on the wall for the superhero genre. It's had its day. Joker and No Way Home are the only superhero movies released post-Endgame to cross the billion dollar mark. Most of DC's recent movies have all either tanked or barely broken even, and even the MCU is seeing diminishing box office returns and declining viewership for its increasingly poor TV content. The bubble has well and truly burst and general audiences want something different. There will always be a market for icons like Batman and Spider-Man, and a select few will continue making a profit, but the time has passed when you could churn out movies based on any C-list Marvel/DC properties and expect a gross north of $600 million.
I predict Joker 2 and The Flash might do all right, but the rest of DC's upcoming slate, including Aquaman 2 and James Gunn's Superman movie, will struggle and likely underperform.
The fact the director of Blue Beetle openly called for murder against a politician he doesn't like won't help matters. If someone from the other side of the aisle had written something similar, you can bet he'd have been given the Gina Carano treatment. Evidently the industry's moral outrage only flows in one direction.
Well said. The icons will endure as they always have but superfluous side characters won't have the same staying power. We've already seen the drop off. I think it goes to show how strong The Batman's final box office total was when you consider what has been happening recently with all these flops. It was a respectable and solid showing that did enough to justify a sequel despite the overall sense of fatigue, and the movie itself was above most in the genre. People are generally going to show up for Batman because it's a bigger part of the culture. It's like SAS selection - only a select few actually pass. The rest are eventually culled. We're especially going to be less tolerant to the product if it's being made by the likes of Gunn and Soto.
Epic post, SN. And very true.
I predict Joker: Folie à Deux will do great. Lady Gaga's fans are not to be underestimated. They'll follow her to hell and back. Twice. They will show up for JFAD. You can take that to the bank. So, I'm not too worried about that movie's box office prospects. Plus, I think we can add Iron Man and Cap to franchises that will probably always have life at the box office like Batman and Spider-Man.
But otherwise... yeah, things aren't looking good.
I really hated the "Batman is a fascist" line at the end of the Blue Bettle trailer. Once I heard that, I already made up my mind. It's a big skip from me.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 6 Apr 2023, 14:17
I predict Joker: Folie à Deux will do great. Lady Gaga's fans are not to be underestimated. They'll follow her to hell and back. Twice. They will show up for JFAD. You can take that to the bank. So, I'm not too worried about that movie's box office prospects.
I agree. If the sequel needs a bump to help it up the box office and approach anything remotely similar to the original it's the Gaga factor. It's the projects that get labelled Black Label or Elseworlds that contain the real excitement. It's been that way for a while now, even in comics. The main line is woefully average but projects like White Knight or Earth One have kept things going.
Quote from: Travesty on Thu, 6 Apr 2023, 19:34
I really hated the "Batman is a fascist" line at the end of the Blue Bettle trailer. Once I heard that, I already made up my mind. It's a big skip from me.
Me too, and others feel the same way. Don't underestimate the impact of that one line. Creators communicate their own thoughts and feelings through the characters. The line doesn't just belong to that one character, it belongs to the whole movie: the human beings who wrote it and left it there.
Quote from: Travesty on Thu, 6 Apr 2023, 19:34
I really hated the "Batman is a fascist" line at the end of the Blue Bettle trailer. Once I heard that, I already made up my mind. It's a big skip from me.
Yeah. That's the trailer's parting line.
I have no idea what this movie's opening weekend would've been. But if someone claims that one line took $50 million off the opening weekend, I could convince myself of that.
I find it curious that the trailer's YouTube page only has positive, effusive
bots comments. There's been a pretty big negative reaction to the "fascist" line and I find it odd that literally nobody is mentioning that in the comments (except in a positive way).
I wouldn't be surprised if they're deleting negative (truthful) comments from the page. Nothing gets universal praise like that in the real world. They can only suppress reality for so long as the real test will be at the box office. Shazam 2 is already available on digital platforms, less than a month after its theatrical release. That's the true definition of a flop. I won't be seeing Blu Beetle, but I'll be all over the aftermath.
I read a news headline of Gunn claiming that DC Studios has talked to Marvel Studios about a potential universe crossover at some point later on in the future. He must've swindled Zaslav into this idea about giving him total control to do whatever he wants, thinking this gimmicky circus act is what general audiences really want.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 6 Apr 2023, 22:44
Quote from: Travesty on Thu, 6 Apr 2023, 19:34
I really hated the "Batman is a fascist" line at the end of the Blue Bettle trailer. Once I heard that, I already made up my mind. It's a big skip from me.
Yeah. That's the trailer's parting line.
I didn't bother watching the Blue Beetle trailer, but I assume that line was meant to be some dumb joke? Whether it was or not, this is a common train of thought that idiotic pseudo-intellectuals say about Batman on Twitter.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 6 Apr 2023, 22:44
I find it curious that the trailer's YouTube page only has positive, effusive bots comments. There's been a pretty big negative reaction to the "fascist" line and I find it odd that literally nobody is mentioning that in the comments (except in a positive way).
YouTube doesn't show the thumbs-down ratio for videos anymore. Their excuse is to "protect creators", but this is really about protecting the egos of those in charge of mega companies like Disney and Warners who don't like getting negative feedback. So yes, it's not unreasonable to suspect these companies are manipulating the comments section to make something more appealing than it really is.
Apropos of nothing, I guess. But if a Blue Beetle movie MUST exist, am I the only one who would find it kind of amusing if Patrick Wilson starred as Ted Kord in a fun, lighthearted Beetle movie? Sort of the opposite style of Watchmen.
Maybe I'm all alone on that one.
With George Lopez calling Batman a "fascist", can we at least have Batman throw a coffee mug at his head?
(https://media.tenor.com/GsAsbszLHpUAAAAC/big-lebowski-the-dude.gif)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtIcUzVaQAAStUd?format=jpg)
This is yet another reminder that James Gunn is a dickhead. Enough said.
Super Mario Bros. opened to $377.6 million.
If you ask me, that means this thread is officially obsolete. Between Sonic and Mario (and honestly, I don't think we should count Mortal Kombat out yet), I think it's clear that the way forward from here is shared cinematic universes based on video game properties.
All of those video game franchises have been developed by their parent companies for decades and have virtually endless sources of inspiration to draw from.
I'm not guaranteeing that video game franchise movies are the future. But right now, they're showing life and vitality that comic book franchise movies are not.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 9 Apr 2023, 22:07
Super Mario Bros. opened to $377.6 million.
If you ask me, that means this thread is officially obsolete. Between Sonic and Mario (and honestly, I don't think we should count Mortal Kombat out yet), I think it's clear that the way forward from here is shared cinematic universes based on video game properties.
I'm very interested in seeing what Legendary does with "Street Fighter", myself.
Overall, with the partnership with Nintendo, and all the other franchises already in-house (Fast/Furious, Jurassic, Minions, ect) Universal is sitting very pretty right now.
You know, I think Colors might be onto something about video game franchises becoming the next big thing. Last year, a Streets of Rage movie project was announced by Sega and Lionsgate, and it's planned to be written by John Wick creator Derek Kolstad. That could be something pretty f***ing cool. The Sega fanboy in me would love to see SOR crossover with Shinobi as a mini-shared universe just for the thrills.
If Legendary can get Street Fighter right then they should consider doing a Final Fight spinoff.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 9 Apr 2023, 22:07
Super Mario Bros. opened to $377.6 million.
If you ask me, that means this thread is officially obsolete. Between Sonic and Mario (and honestly, I don't think we should count Mortal Kombat out yet), I think it's clear that the way forward from here is shared cinematic universes based on video game properties.
All of those video game franchises have been developed by their parent companies for decades and have virtually endless sources of inspiration to draw from.
I'm not guaranteeing that video game franchise movies are the future. But right now, they're showing life and vitality that comic book franchise movies are not.
Some commentators are framing the success of the Mario movie as a devastating blow to Disney, and I can see why.
Disney's last two big animated movies, shaped according to the company's "not-at-all-secret agenda", crashed and burnt at the box office. Lightyear grossed just $226.4 million on a $200 million budget, while Strange World made just $73.6 million on an estimated budget of $135-180 million. The company's net loss from these movies is estimated to be in the hundreds of millions. Disney apologists have offered endless excuses for why they failed, citing everything from sluggish box office to COVID-19.
But if animated movies are struggling, then why did Minions: The Rise of Gru make $940.5 million on an $80 million budget? Why has the Mario Bros. movie made more in its opening weekend than Lightyear and Strange World
combined made in their entire runs? While Mario's success is clearly a big win for Nintendo, it also illustrates just how badly Disney is faring in the animated feature market.
But at least The Mouse still has Star Wars, right? Kathleen Kennedy recently brought out the big guns by announcing that Rey Skywalker, the most beloved character in modern fandom, is returning in a new movie. The plot will depict Rey fixing Luke's mistakes by founding a new Jedi Order in the wake of the Empire's collapse. So basically they're taking Luke's storyline from the Expanded Universe, which should have been the basis for the Sequel Trilogy, and giving it to Rey. I'm sure that will go down extremely well with fans. And if Rey's return wasn't exciting enough, the new movie is being directed by political activist Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy, whose previous credits include Climate Change (2018) and Fundamental: Gender Justice No Exceptions (2020). What could possibly go wrong?
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/3o7qDK5J5Uerg3atJ6/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47m0avrhxat4qeid5u3oyos7w6nbqx7k9k47paz8ut&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
Getting back to Mario, the new film's success is being hailed as a victory in the culture wars. Supposedly the Hollywood writers originally wanted to pull off a bait-and-switch by depicting Mario as incompetent and making Princess Peach the real hero, but Nintendo sent the script back ordering them to change it so that Mario was the heroic focus. As long as Japanese companies like Nintendo and Sega are calling the shots, movie adaptations of their games have potential.
It's my eldest nephew's birthday this week and he's a huge Mario fan, so my brother's taking him to see the movie. I might go too. Our mum took us to see the Bob Hoskins Mario film back in 1993. I can't believe that was thirty years ago. The critical reception for the new movie has been mixed (bad modern film criticism goes hand in hand with bad modern cinema, and is thus completely useless for gauging a movie's quality – the fact audiences are ignoring the 'rotten' RT score is a good sign), but viewers seem to dig it. I've been a Nintendo fan since I was little, so I'm pleased to see the movie doing well.
Nintendo owns many other great gaming properties that are ripe for adaptation:
• The Legend of Zelda
• Metroid
• Fire Emblem
• Star Fox
• Donkey Kong
• F-Zero
• Eternal Darkness
• Kirby
• Pokémon
• Kid Icarus
• Xenoblade Chronicles
• Pikmin
• Advance Wars
Sega's got:
• Sonic
• Streets of Rage
• Shinobi
• Phantasy Star
• Golden Axe
• Ecco the Dolphin
• Altered Beast
• Shenmue
I gather The Last of Us TV adaptation has been very popular. Christophe Gans is currently filming a new Silent Hill movie based on Silent Hill 2, which is one of the greatest horror games ever made and the best instalment in Konami's SH franchise. John Carpenter has said he'd like to adapt Dead Space into a film. Isn't it about time we had a Metal Gear Solid movie? How about Devil May Cry, The Elder Scrolls, Splinter Cell, Fatal Frame/Project Zero, Grand Theft Auto or Soul Calibre?
Videogames are a comparatively untapped source material for filmmakers. Just keep Uwe Boll and Paul W. S. Anderson away from them and make sure the original Japanese companies retain creative oversight. It'll be interesting to see if and how this trend develops.
It doesn't take much imagination to see how Kirby could succeed as a cutesy kid movie, Metroid could fit into a sci-fi milieu (a very toned down version of Scott's first Alien) and The Legend Of Zelda could fill the void that The Rings Of Power is clearly not interested in filling. The list just goes on from there.
Honestly tho, any of those games getting adapted sounds fine by me if Nintendo is taking an active hand in their development. If anything, the message Nintendo probably received from Mario's success is they need to take on more of a leadership role with these films. Their way works; Hollywood's way doesn't. I don't think that message was lost on anybody from Nintendo. Going forward, I would expect Nintendo to be MORE involved in the films. There's absolutely no reason for them to become less involved at this point.
For Mario specifically, there's a zillion games to use for inspiration. A ten minute animated short based on Luigi's Castle or a feature length version of Mario Is Missing could be great vehicles to develop Luigi a little more. Again, the possibilities just go on and on for continuing the Mario franchise. And who says we can't get a Princess Peach solo film? I bet the little girl audience would love that.
I have mixed feelings about Nintendo. I owned several consoles and handhelds as a kid, but eventually moved towards Sony. I thought the Switch was a great concept, and I bought one soon after release. But modern Nintendo is a joke. The momentum of launch died away and was left to wither on the vine. Way too many remasters of old games. I wish they were focusing on their software a lot more instead of branching out to films. Because after coming back into the fold a couple of years ago they quickly lost me again.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Mon, 10 Apr 2023, 10:06
You know, I think Colors might be onto something about video game franchises becoming the next big thing. Last year, a Streets of Rage movie project was announced by Sega and Lionsgate, and it's planned to be written by John Wick creator Derek Kolstad. That could be something pretty f***ing cool. The Sega fanboy in me would love to see SOR crossover with Shinobi as a mini-shared universe just for the thrills.
If Legendary can get Street Fighter right then they should consider doing a Final Fight spinoff.
Yeah, there's some possibilities for sure. Seeing the
would be Street Fighter '89 "Final Fight" become a cinematic extension of SF would be a pretty cool way in broadening out the SF universe without having to make a direct sequel right away. Honestly, if Legendary's "Street Fighter" is a success, "Final Fight" could be a venue to formally introduce (or acknowledge by cameo) some key fighters prior to the 2nd 'World Warrior' tournament. Sodom was in Final Fight and in the SF Alpha series, so that's a easy one. I could easily envision Balrog having a cameo in a "Final Fight" movie and being evoked as a serious threat, but also one with his own personal ambitions that extend outside of the 'final fight' itself. I don't believe Thunderhawk would feel out of place either in Final Fight. Perhaps saving either Guy, Cody, or Haggar but choosing to remain a mysterious figure....
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Mon, 10 Apr 2023, 15:16
Videogames are a comparatively untapped source material for filmmakers. Just keep Uwe Boll and Paul W. S. Anderson away from them and make sure the original Japanese companies retain creative oversight. It'll be interesting to see if and how this trend develops.
True. It will be interesting to see how this plays out
this go around. As with the early 2000's, following the success of the "Resident Evil" films, and "Tomb Raider" with Angelina Jolie, Hollywood attempted to adapt several video game properties to the big screen with variable success. Properties such as "Mario", "Sonic" Mortal Kombat", "Street Fighter", "Grand Theft Auto", "Legend of Zelda", ect are rather strong and are likely to get a lot of attention due to the brand, while other's would be more of a wild card at the box office. Something like F-Zero, and others, would fall into this category. For instance, even if a cinematic F-Zero is visually stunning, the brand isn't no where near or even close to that of Mario, and could easily tank. The Wachowskis' "Speed Racer" movie is indicative of this. A toon brand sure, but one with name recognition. Especially by late-night early-mid '90's MTV viewers where SR was a staple for awhile there.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Mon, 10 Apr 2023, 15:16Videogames are a comparatively untapped source material for filmmakers. Just keep Uwe Boll and Paul W. S. Anderson away from them
By my count, 2.5 generations of kids have been coming of age playing video games. The last time comic books were a relevant medium for kids was 1993. You could argue even that, honestly. But at no time after 1993 did kids give much of a toss about comics.
But video games are different. The personal investment that Gen X, Millennials and the Zoomers have in video games is not to be underestimated. If I'm right that video game-based movie franchises are next on the docket for Hollywood, my prediction is that it won't take very long for at least one of these video game films to blow the doors off Endgame's box office numbers. If people flocked to Endgame even though they only had a relatively shallow seven year investment in the Avengers, what will happen when a beloved video game movie comes along that ALL of those generations have fond memories of?
I don't think anybody is qualified to say.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Mon, 10 Apr 2023, 15:16make sure the original Japanese companies retain creative oversight.
I will try to put this delicately. But the Japanese are notoriously protective of their markets, their companies and their IP's. And Nintendo just got the message that their approach works while Hollywood's approach doesn't. They have no reason to let Hollywood movie studios have too much freedom in adapting these games into movies. If anything, Nintendo might be even more hands-on going forward.
I think everything will be okay on this.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 9 Apr 2023, 22:07
Super Mario Bros. opened to $377.6 million.
If you ask me, that means this thread is officially obsolete. Between Sonic and Mario (and honestly, I don't think we should count Mortal Kombat out yet), I think it's clear that the way forward from here is shared cinematic universes based on video game properties.
All of those video game franchises have been developed by their parent companies for decades and have virtually endless sources of inspiration to draw from.
I'm not guaranteeing that video game franchise movies are the future. But right now, they're showing life and vitality that comic book franchise movies are not.
Mario looks poised to cross $1 billion. Which solidifies my not-as-clever-as-I-thought notion that video game franchises are the future.
Still, there could be room to navigate these new waters. New challenges mean new opportunities.
I'm not a video game guy. At all. I'm an old curmudgeonly comic book guy. But the DC brand has two -- arguably three -- strong video game properties. The Batman: Arkham stuff as well as Injustice: Gods Among Us.
Now, I've about had my fill of Evil Superman. But if the show must go on, well, there's an idea right there with Injustice.
As to Arkham... it seems like that could be organic to what Reeves is already doing. Maybe. I defer to anyone who has actually played the Arkham games when it comes to that. In all media, Batman is a survivor. So, he's the character I'm least concerned about. This is a viable direction for the character tho. I think TDK mentioned this at some point long ago. I thought he was right then and nothing much has changed there.
The arguable third item on the menu is Mortal Kombat Vs. DC Universe. I have to be honest and say that as a DC fan, I would find it highly undignified if the only way a profitable DC movie can be made is a crossover with something else. The fact that the something else is a video game franchise adds insult to injury. But, again, if this is the only way forward, then I guess this is what has to be done.
Years from now, film buffs and historians will look back at how WB (and its heirs) mismanaged and bungled their way through a once-in-history opportunity to capitalize on their most famous characters. I don't want to sound too much like another member around here. But there is mojo to the idea that the DC universe's story in cinema for the past twenty years is one poor management decision after another.
The fact that I'm reduced to suggesting that video games based on DC properties be adapted into feature film should say everything you need to know about how badly these characters have been marketed for decades.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 18 Apr 2023, 22:53
As to Arkham... it seems like that could be organic to what Reeves is already doing. Maybe. I defer to anyone who has actually played the Arkham games when it comes to that. In all media, Batman is a survivor. So, he's the character I'm least concerned about. This is a viable direction for the character tho. I think TDK mentioned this at some point long ago. I thought he was right then and nothing much has changed there.
There are aspects of the Arkhamverse in The Batman, but I wouldn't say it holds a major influence. I think it's still too real world oriented to have that label. I think characters like full blown Clayface and Killer Croc would feel out of place and would still have to be altered ala the Nolan trilogy. After Reeves they could take that next step, which is less gritty crime drama and more of a heightened BTAS ambience that presents the characters in all their glory, straight off the page. I'm not interested right now (but probably will be when it comes closer) but the Brave and the Bold film could perhaps be that vehicle. Retain Batfleck's fighting style (the warehouse scene) and we're good to go.
As for Nintendo, they'll probably make another movie after this box office result. Perhaps the Legend of Zelda? But again, I'm feeling annoyed by the focus on films when they're a software company. Where's my Super Mario Odyssey 2? Where's my new Metroid game? And so on. It's been years now. They need to up their game (ha) and make me feel excited about them again. Because right now, it feels like they're living off past glories and aren't as hungry as they should be in the realm of their current console.
My brother took his three kids to see the Mario movie last week, and the children loved it. My bro said the film's plot is incredibly simple and straightforward, but that there's something pleasantly old fashioned about that. It's now racing towards a billion dollar worldwide, with its success being hailed as a blow to Disney, critics and the entertainment-media complex in general.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9m42kW8IAA
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 19 Apr 2023, 10:06As for Nintendo, they'll probably make another movie after this box office result. Perhaps the Legend of Zelda? But again, I'm feeling annoyed by the focus on films when they're a software company. Where's my Super Mario Odyssey 2? Where's my new Metroid game? And so on. It's been years now. They need to up their game (ha) and make me feel excited about them again. Because right now, it feels like they're living off past glories and aren't as hungry as they should be in the realm of their current console.
In fairness to Nintendo, their release schedule was hit hard by Covid delays. For example, Fire Emblem: Engage was meant to come out in 2020 for the franchise's 30th anniversary, but instead ended up being released in January 2023. The new Zelda game was meant to be out last year, but instead it's coming out next month. Everything's been pushed back a bit, which is why there's been a drought of good triple-A games over the past few years. I know some people will cite popular games like Animal Crossing, Pokémon or Splatoon, but personally I'm not bothered about them. I'm sure they're good games, they're just not my cup of tea.
In general, Nintendo has suffered from weak third-party support since the days of the N64. Things have definitely picked up in the Switch era, but many third-party developers still favour Sony and Microsoft as their primary platforms. Sony and Microsoft's incursion into the gaming market drove smaller companies like Sega and Atari out of the console race. Nintendo was the only game developer that managed to compete against the tech giants thanks to its first-party line-up (which is easily the best of any console developer) and skill at innovation (the Wii, 3DS, etc).
Typically it takes Nintendo about three to six years to develop a triple-A title. They have several first and second-party development teams working concurrently on different projects, so I don't think their movies will affect game development.
The wait for good games can be frustrating though, particularly with something like Metroid Prime 4, which was announced way back in 2017 only to have development scrapped and restarted in 2019. It's crazy to think it's been almost sixteen years since the last Prime game. Still, Metroid Dread was good. And the recent remaster of the original Prime – which was already a 10/10 and one of the greatest games ever – is excellent. The upgraded visuals and addition of dual analog control make it feel more like a remake than a straight port. Hopefully we'll get similar remasters of Echoes and Corruption soon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9OQOJC1QII
When Prime 4 does eventually come out, which I expect will be sometime in the next two years, it should be game-of-the-year material. I think the wait will be worth it. In recent years, Nintendo's adopted a policy of not announcing games until roughly six months before their release window. There are exceptions, like Metroid Prime 4, but in most cases they'll keep development under wraps until the game's nearly finished. That way fans have less of a wait. This means they're probably developing a number of big titles right now that they haven't announced. I agree that it's time we got Mario Odyssey 2. The first game was great, but it came out six years ago. The sequel's overdue.
There are a number of franchises that Nintendo is not, as far as I'm aware, currently developing games for. Those franchises are criminally neglected. There are two in particular.
One is F-Zero. 2023 marks the 20th anniversary of F-Zero GX, the last proper entry in the franchise. There's no excuse for that. It's high time a new F-Zero game came out. Fans have waited two decades.
The other franchise they've neglected is Eternal Darkness. The original Game Cube title, Sanity's Requiem, is quite possibly the greatest horror game ever (Silent Hill 2 on PS2 and the Resident Evil remake on Game Cube are also contenders). It's a masterpiece, combing a deep magic system with a layered mythology, creative sanity effects and eminently playable combat mechanics. This epic horror-adventure hybrid should have been the start of an ongoing series. A sequel would be ideal, but I'd even be happy with a remake or remastered port. Instead Nintendo has done nothing with the IP for over twenty years.
I've got mixed feelings about Nintendo's film projects. I do think the VG movie trend is happening, but I'm not all that enthusiastic about it. Zelda is my favourite gaming series, but I don't particularly want to see a movie based on it. I just don't think it'll work. Not unless they did it as a cel shaded film based on Wind Waker. But really I think Zelda should remain an interactive experience. Fire Emblem would lend itself better to cinematic adaptation, simply because those games are more plot driven and already contain hours of cut scenes and dialogue. Metroid is tricky. The games are kind of dark, and the emphasis on solitude is a big part of their appeal. That mightn't translate well into a film. I'd also hate to see someone like Brie Larson cast as Samus.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu, 20 Apr 2023, 10:55I'd also hate to see someone like Brie Larson cast as Samus.
Understandable. But if I were a betting man, I'd say that Samus is Anya Taylor-Joy's to lose.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 20 Apr 2023, 13:34
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu, 20 Apr 2023, 10:55I'd also hate to see someone like Brie Larson cast as Samus.
Understandable. But if I were a betting man, I'd say that Samus is Anya Taylor-Joy's to lose.
That's probably true. She'd be a better pick than Larson. Ideally, I'd prefer an unknown stuntwoman to play the part. Samus works best when she's mysterious and doesn't speak much, similar to Boba Fett or the Man with No Name. There was a game called Metroid: Other M for the Wii that delved into her back story, showing her out of the Power Suit, talking and interacting with other humans, revealing her inner thoughts and feelings. It didn't go down well with fans and is now widely considered one of the weaker entries in the series. It's actually not a bad game, but it's definitely inferior to the Prime series.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eG_terAuBBg
If there is a Metroid movie, I'd prefer it if Samus was the only human character and everyone else she encountered was some kind of alien. I don't mind a few Federation Marine red shirts getting thrown in the mix...
(https://cdn.wikimg.net/en/metroidwiki/images/5/5d/Galactic_Federation_Marine_mp2_Artwork.png)
...but only so they can be killed by Space Pirates or Metroids. The cinematic Samus should preserve her mystique by keeping her Power Suit on at all times, similar to how Judge Dredd keeps his helmet on. They could have her take the helmet off once during a post-credit scene, but aside from that her features should remain hidden. I'd skip her origin story altogether, or summarise it in a brief prologue, and have the film begin when she's already established as a bounty hunter.
The trickiest part IMO would be capturing the exotic alien ambience that makes the games so immersive. The distinctive music plays a big part in creating that atmosphere, and any film adaptation would need to source its soundtrack directly from the games.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1EhSWr3LoQ
I'd keep the movie short – maybe ninety minutes – focusing on a simple plot with minimal dialogue and maximum ambience. Tell the story cinematically through the visuals and music, using practical effects and real sets as much as possible. Samus's Power Suit needs to be a real costume, not CGI armour like Iron Man's suit. If cosplayers can do it, a major studio has no excuse not to.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/18/5e/2e/185e2eb60ea728e3512bd995e4af862b.jpg)
(https://metroiddatabase.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/ZM_Samus.jpeg)
(https://external-preview.redd.it/-9covhK3hm3Km2mfO9vNRnAocn-n8sAcYngUW56KrBE.jpg?auto=webp&s=e92b7a42a970fc5fd37537e43a46993d2e7133aa)
In the right hands, a Metroid movie could be amazing. I'm just sceptical that the right hands will get the job.
Contextually, it sounds like you're envisioning a live action movie. This whole time, I sort of took it for granted that it would be CG animated. I figured that for the sake of stylistic (if not tonal) consistency, a Metroid movie would be animated. That approach would allow Nintendo to keep their options open with a Super Smash Bros movie later on down the line. As far as I know, no Smash Bros movie (or anything else) has been announced. But people are already talking.
Still, the prospect of live action does open up some interesting possibilities. One of them is the first movie can be a fun shoot 'em up and then the sequel can delve into the backstory of Samus and how all that ever came about. A fun intro film followed by a sequel that packs an emotional punch seems to be a successful combination.
The only reason I ever suggested ATJ in the first place is because Nintendo already has a relationship with her from the Mario movie, re: Princess Peach. But now that I think about it, that very fact could actually be what works against her landing the role of Samus. In any case, live action or animated, it seems like sort of a long shot that Larson would get the part.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 21 Apr 2023, 00:42Contextually, it sounds like you're envisioning a live action movie. This whole time, I sort of took it for granted that it would be CG animated. I figured that for the sake of stylistic (if not tonal) consistency, a Metroid movie would be animated. That approach would allow Nintendo to keep their options open with a Super Smash Bros movie later on down the line. As far as I know, no Smash Bros movie (or anything else) has been announced. But people are already talking.
That's a good point. Making all the films with computer animation would offer some visual consistency while allowing each franchise to retain its own unique aesthetic. I imagine it would also be easier for Nintendo to maintain creative control over animated projects than live action films.
Suddenly I'm reminded of that old Captain N: The Game Master cartoon, which used animation to blend characters and locations from different styles of games. Unfortunately they didn't do a very good job of adapting many of those characters. For example, here's what Mother Brain looks like in the Metroid games.
(https://i.postimg.cc/zXpLvHTC/mother-brain.png)
And here's Mother Brain in Captain N.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Ghb8bxT3/cap-n-brain.jpg)
Nintendo needs to avoid the Marvel pitfall of trying to make every character fit the same goofy tone. Obviously characters like Donkey Kong, Kirby and Yoshi should be light and funny like Mario, but other franchises like Zelda, Metroid and Fire Emblem need to be more mature and dramatic. Let's not forget that the original inspiration for Metroid was Alien (1979). I'm not saying Nintendo's films should go
that dark, because that would be inappropriate, but they do need to tailor a suitable tone for each story and avoid the one-size-fits-all approach that's proven so detrimental to the MCU.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 21 Apr 2023, 00:42In any case, live action or animated, it seems like sort of a long shot that Larson would get the part.
I hope you're right. But Larson's expressed interest in the role on a number of occasions. She even dressed as Zero Suit Samus for Halloween and posted pictures on social media.
(https://gonintendo.com/uploads/file_upload/upload/76530/medium_brie.png)
I'm confident The Marvels will bomb, but if Fast X is a hit Nintendo might think Larson is a sound investment. Of course if Fast X is a hit it'll be in spite of Larson, not because of her.
The Super Mario Bros. Movie has now made a billion dollars worldwide. Mario and Zelda creator Shigeru Miyamoto has credited the negative reviews from western critics for making people want to see the movie:
Quote"Moreover, overseas critics gave the film quite low marks. I think that was part of the reason for the buzz," Miyamoto theorizes. "I would be happy if they said that it changed the definition of cinema. That's how lucky I was."
https://boundingintocomics.com/2023/05/01/super-mario-bros-creator-shigeru-miyamoto-the-super-mario-bros-movie-success-thanks-in-part-to-overseas-critics-giving-quite-low-marks/
He's right. Mainstream film critics have lost their credibility and audiences know it.
Zack Snyder used his social media accounts to plug Blue Beetle today. Unless he has an agreement with WB to finish off the rest of his Justice League/Superman arc (which I strongly doubt, particularly when the entire industry has been halted by the labour strikes), I would've told the studio to go to hell after all the sh*t they put him through. But if he wants to keep this good PR image by turning the other cheek and preventing that rotten studio do a hit piece on him, I can sorta understand why he did them this favour. I still don't like it.
In the absence of a Blue Beetle thread I'm posting this here. Blue Beetle director Angel Manuel Soto originally wanted to make a Bane movie because he sees Bane as a misunderstood hero. In the following clip he argues that Bane's origin story is really about the evils of US interventionism in Latin America and the Caribbean.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjnR5nUmip0
I can't wait to hear Chuck Dixon's response to this.
Meanwhile Blue Beetle, which has a budget of $120 million, is currently tracking for a $12-17 million opening weekend at the US box office. Analysts are predicting its total domestic haul could be as low as $27 million.
I'm not excited about a Blue Beetle movie. I don't know anyone who's excited about a Blue Beetle movie.
I don't know anyone who knows anyone who's excited about a Blue Beetle movie.
As to Bane as a metaphor for US interventionism in Latin America, it's a hacky interpretation but what do you expect from a hack?
The excuse that the film will suffer because it can't be openly marketed by the cast and crew because of the strike is a poor one. Blue Bomb had no interest at any point and the final outcome was always going to be the same. I think it'll be the type of flop that empties every single drop from inside the pool.
These types of filmmakers need to stay away from Bane. He's not their plaything. He's a top tier villain and his rehabilitation needs to continue, not be set back. Apart from Joaquin Phoenix's Joker, recent villain movies have been rubbish, namely Venom 2, Morbius and soon Kraven.
Here's Graham Nolan's response:
(https://boundingintocomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/2023.08.08-12.41-boundingintocomics-64d23800cbeca.png)
(https://boundingintocomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/2023.08.08-12.41-boundingintocomics-64d23803b2757.png)
So why is Angel Manuel Soto allowed to promote Blue Beetle? I thought they were on strike.
And his comment on Bane....wow.
Soto is only credited as director of the movie. DGA is not on strike. If he had writing credit, that could be more dicey. But as it stands, I would imagine that he's in the clear since he's working in his capacity as director of the film.
Dixon/Nolan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Soto/fanfic
Too much personal projection is exactly it, and well done to Nolan for saying so. As he also says, that stuff was never considered at the time of Bane's creation. All modern media has to be infected with all that activist muck for some reason and it's always for the worse. The line about Batman being a fascist had already rubbed people the wrong way. To me, Bane represents a man who could have remained a victim but instead chose to empower himself. He rises above it through education and sheer determination, which is something a lot of people should seek to emulate.
https://youtu.be/ZLWJ68p-nsk
The Critical Drinker has some remarkably positive things to say about Blue Beetle. No, it's not the greatest thing anybody has ever seen. But he was impressed by how good it actually was.
I get the idea that ten years from now, we might see articles along the lines of "Revisiting The Last Stages Of The DCEU" that basically argue that The Flash, Black Adam, Shazam 2 and Blue Beetle are all better than anybody remembers.
But I guess that's the entire problem. Those movies might be decent. I've only seen TF (and wasn't impressed). But they didn't debut in a vacuum. They come on the heels of fans getting jerked around in every possible direction, unnecessary reboots/warm reboots/retcons/whatever else not to mention a lot of deliberately squandered good will.
It's a shame.
No, I still don't plan on watching Blue Beetle. But I do like that the movie was apparently underestimated by everyone.
Speaking of things that could've worked, film adaptations of the Vertigo magic characters could've been interesting.
If films about Tim Hunter, the Phantom Stranger, John Constantine, etc. had been made around 2012 or 2013, they probably could've picked up more or less where the Harry Potter franchise left off. Plus, a cinematic universe featuring the Justice League Dark characters could've been viable counter-programming to the MCU.
I suppose you could throw Sandman and The Endless characters in there too for good measure.
I'm convinced that it could've been a contender. But obviously, we'll never know for sure.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 22 Aug 2023, 02:54No, I still don't plan on watching Blue Beetle. But I do like that the movie was apparently underestimated by everyone.
Not everyone is impressed.
https://youtu.be/3oZqmAcEl5g
Meanwhile, I read that The Flash debuted on MAX with fewer streaming views than Black Adam. The brand is severely damaged, and yet, shill trades like THR writing articles asking "where have the DC fans gone?", while trying to play down the damage these incompetent and corrupt regimes at WB have done to the brand for years, and instead blame the fans for expressing their distaste online.
Gunn has posted this explanation about his DCU "plans" on social media:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F7DLMBtWcAAfWJR?format=jpg&name=large)
Gunn even went on record saying he plans to keep Xolo Madriduena as Blue Beetle, despite his movie being a third consecutive DC flop. The other actors he wants are John Cena's Peacemaker, the guy who plays Vigilante and Viola Davis as Amanda Waller.
In case some of you still haven't figured it out right now, this supposed reboot is a sham. As I said elsewhere, it's not too different than what Walter Hamada had in mind when he wanted to use The Flash to change the timeline to keep the characters he wanted and remove the rest. The only big difference in Gunn's agenda is Michael Keaton is not involved and Supergirl isn't outright replacing Superman. And now we know how much Gunn hates B89, Keaton's performance and how he hijacked Superman from Cavill, this DC shake-up of his is more about ego than merit.
Even if you ignore his lies about Cavill was never hired back, Affleck wanting to direct a film and yet to address Gadot's claims she was guaranteed back as Wonder Woman, the track record surrounding Gunn's dishonesty continues to grow. He said The Flash was going to reset the timeline for his DCU, but it turned out that wasn't the case:
https://thedirect.com/article/james-gunn-the-flash-dceu-reset#:~:text=DC%20Studios%20co%2DCEO%20James,would%20stay%20after%20the%20reboot.
And then he stated Blue Beetle is the first DCU character, despite he said Creature Commandos and/or his Superman project is meant to be the beginning of his planned franchise:
https://www.comingsoon.net/movies/news/1297282-james-gunn-blue-beetle-is-the-first-dc-universe-character#:~:text=DC%20Studios%20Co%2DCEO%20James,is%20the%20first%20DCU%20character.
The only consistent thing he says he intends the Blue Beetle guy to continue. Otherwise, his explanations are confusing and make no sense whatsoever. He's just hijacking the brand to put money into his own pocket. If he's keeping Xolo Madriduena then he might as well keep Zachary Levi and Ezra Miller. Why not? As I already pointed out, Gunn's appointment has proven it's not about merit. It's about who you're friends with. And he's chummy with Levi and Miller, so why should he be swayed by box office failure or bad publicity? It's not like his TSS failure and red flags surrounding pedophilia had an effect on WBD to hire the creep or anything.
Before I finish this post, if you need another reminder how incompetent WBD is, they blamed Blue Beetle's low opening weekend at the domestic BO on bad weather:
https://www.gamereactor.eu/warner-blame-the-weather-for-terrible-blue-beetle-opening-1298583/
This didn't take into account that the film failed to outgross Shazam 2 internationally. With excuses like that, it's no wonder why they continue to be a badly run company.
I mean...if the Cavill debacle and dooming the 2023 slate with a farcical "reboot" announcement wasn't already enough to make people realise DC as a brand is damaged, then everything that Gunn said today should convince you. If you're still somehow convinced there is hope for DC, God help you.
A few weeks ago, David Goyer looked back at the time when WB were putting everyone under pressure to create a cinematic universe, shortly after MOS came out:
Quote"I know the pressure we were getting from Warner Bros., which was, 'We need our MCU! We need our MCU!' And I was like let's not run before we walk," Goyer said. "The other thing that was difficult at the time was there was this revolving door of executives at Warner Bros. and DC. Every 18 months someone new would come in. We were just getting whiplash. Every new person was like, 'We're going to go bigger!'"
"I remember at one point the person running Warner Bros. at the time had this release that pitched the next 20 movies over the next 10 years. But none of them had been written yet!" Goyer continued in amazement. "It was crazy how much architecture was being built on air... This is not how you build a house."
https://variety.com/2023/film/news/david-fincher-blade-meeting-man-of-steel-2-david-s-goyer-1235731062/
I'm not exactly the biggest Goyer fan, and while I don't agree with everything he says, he does make a great point with that last comment I quoted. And yet, WB has shown time and time again that they haven't learned their lesson, because that comment easily applies to this ridiculous DCU slate.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
To be fair, the MCU as we first knew it was conceptualized during the production of the first Iron Man. This idea that Marvel Studios went in with a big epic blueprint about where things would go is revisionism and wishful thinking. Phase One was very much Marvel flying by the seat of their pants and getting VERY lucky at times.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 14 Oct 2023, 20:40To be fair, the MCU as we first knew it was conceptualized during the production of the first Iron Man. This idea that Marvel Studios went in with a big epic blueprint about where things would go is revisionism and wishful thinking. Phase One was very much Marvel flying by the seat of their pants and getting VERY lucky at times.
Now there is talk that the MCU is desperate to get the original Avengers cast back. The Marvels is speculated to be the worst-performing film in the franchise to date, and now Feige and co are allegedly hitting the panic button. There is even a rumour that Hugh Jackman's Wolverine and Tobey Maguire's Spider-Man will be in the next Avengers production. To me, this reads Marvel AND superhero fatigue in general is finally settling in.
Meanwhile, HBO boss Casey Bloys has confessed to using bots to attack critics that dared to criticise the network's programming.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/digital/hbo-chief-casey-bloys-fake-twitter-accounts-1235634912/
The irony is Rolling Stone ran a hit piece against Zack Snyder by accusing him of using bots to generate hype and interest in his cut of JL only a year ago, and now, they actually exposed an executive from HBO/WBD of using bots to scare of critics. An executive who, by his own admission, is very thin-skinned. That would explain the overzealous praise of Peacemaker and the attempts to hype up this DCU agenda on social media. If a subsidiary like HBO is using bots, who is to say WBD themselves aren't doing either?
WBD must be bleeding a lot of money if they can't bribe RS to not expose their subsidiary in bad light.
The trades are now saying that Gunn has hired his brother Sean to play Maxwell Lord in planned projects. So much for Gunn's promise that actors won't play multiple roles in his desired DC universe: Sean's existing DC credits already include Weasel from TSS and another character in Creature Commandos. Yes, I'm aware that nepotism happens a lot in Hollywood, but it still doesn't look good that Gunn lied yet again.
While we're on the subject, word's going around that Supergirl is planned to be cast for that Superman Leprosy project. The project is already overstuffed with so many other characters to the point they're rushing an entire universe in one film that's supposed to be a new Superman debut. Yet people still say BvS was rushed and overstuffed.
Let's if the investors are really THAT stupid in going along with any of this nonsense.
Gunn supposedly lashed out at a fan by denying he broke his promise about not casting multiple actors for DC roles, and this video points out a statement he made to Variety to prove he's bending the truth.
https://youtu.be/Mix9YcoUmfE
The reason why I say "supposedly" is because the comment has now been deleted, and there's a screenshot of the same fan who called him out was also mocking Snyder fans. Strangely that account has been deactivated, which only had one or two posts anyway.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GBAN1gJX0AAAUCp?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GBAPFjXWIAAYqV5?format=jpg&name=medium)
It's possible that this person was just a guy who hated both Snyder and Gunn. It's also possible that Gunn may have used a bot to respond to make him look like he was putting a disgruntled hater in his place just to make himself feel good by telling a lie. I mean, with Gunn's history of using social media against Nicole Perlman over the GOTG writing credits and Max exec Casey Bloys admitting to using fake accounts to attack critics for giving his shows bad reviews, anything is possible when it comes to questioning Gunn's conduct on social media.
Meanwhile, Zachary Levi had this to say about Sean Gunn's role as Maxwell Lord:
QuoteWhen asked the question, the actor seemed skeptical that jumping into a new DC character would even be possible. Reminded that Sean Gunn, the actor (and brother of DC Studios co-CEO James Gunn) who played Weasel and Calendar Man in 2021's The Suicide Squad has been cast as villain Maxwell Lord in the new DC Universe, Levi quipped, "Listen, when you're the brother of the guy who runs DC, I guess you get to play who you want."
https://au.lifestyle.yahoo.com/shazam-star-zachary-levi-takes-221014384.html
I guess Levi's sucking up to Gunn at the start of the year was all for nothing.
I saw this report acknowledging the abject failure that was DC Studios this year, albeit still trying to put a positive spin on WBD despite their financial problems and deflecting the responsibility from Gunn and Safran.
https://au.lifestyle.yahoo.com/lifestyle/box-office-report-card-grading-165638561.html
QuoteWarner Bros. spent over $660 million (not including marketing) to bring those superhero films to the big screen — only to collectively earn less than 2016's "Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice" ($874 million) at the global box office.
To think people declared BvS a "bomb". It was hilarious to me that somebody here was having a go at me last year about WB wanting to get away from anything Snyderverse-related and the excuse was the studio "wanted to make money". Well, that didn't age very well, all of these films flopped badly, and trust in the DC brand has progressively eroded with every horrible decision made by the studio. Shazam 2, The Flash and Blue Beetle failed to reach Black Adam's box office revenue, and that movie was a flop too. It's still early to tell where Aquaman 2 ends up, but it's looking like yet another failure as well.
If Gunn and Zaslav never declared how great The Flash was in public and how it was one of the best movies they had seen, I would've suspected their handling of these films was an act of sabotage. But Gunn did go out of his way to state Flash was one of the best he had seen, and even gave Muschietti the job to direct a Batman reboot project. This must've been some sort of power move by Gunn to show he had confidence in The Flash and thought his influence would've ensured success. He was
DEAD WRONG.
Unless you're a Gunn fanboy, anyone who is paying attention would realise that the man has no credibility.
QuoteDC's new bosses, James Gunn and Peter Safran, already announced plans to reset the sprawling superhero universe. If only they could enter the Speed Force to travel back in time and prevent the release of those comic book duds.
I've come to realise that in Hollyweird, it's all about controlling the narrative. This paragraph I've quoted ignores that Gunn and Safran should be held accountable for these failures.
We talked about how moronic it was to announce any sort of reboot before this year's movies were coming out, but Safran in particular should be fired. The fact that he'd go along with this despite producing the Shazam and Aquaman sequels is mindboggling. Aside from the first Aquaman and first Shazam movies, the other DC films he had a hand in producing were bombs (TSS, Shazam 2, his production company financed Blue Beetle). The only reason he's in this position is because Zaslav reportedly couldn't find anyone who wanted to take the DC job. And the only reason Safran is working with Gunn is because the two have a history together; Safran produced some of Gunn's shows back in the 2000s: James Gunn's PG Porn and Humanzee.
I know Hollyweird is nepotistic and it's all about who you know - not what you know - but you can see the pattern here and these two are unfit for DC Studios.
I'll just cap off by saying if anyone is doubting Gunn had a creative influence on any of this year's films, think again:
(https://preview.redd.it/james-gunn-says-he-gave-notes-to-the-dcu-films-releasing-in-v0-vpti4gsmbt3a1.jpg?width=1122&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c2f662ef8f7b0858e581060170d2ea530a400c68)
It was brought to my attention that before the news of the Matt Reeves Batman sequel was getting delayed for another two and a half years, the Arkham TV show project he wanted to produce for his Batman universe is instead going to be set in Gunn's DCU.
https://youtu.be/NKVAql_yVYI?si=w-sEOuqJJPie2rvm
DC insiders stated the dual strikes last year had impacted on fast-tracking the sequel - yet Gunn is writing and filming his stupid Superman AND Peacemaker at the same time. I suspect Gunn's a scab and wrote these projects during the strikes, but I still find the excuse rather dubious.
Either the following things are true:
1) Reeves is slowly getting pushed out, and WBD wants to incorporate his Batman in their DCU and turn the sequel into Brave and the Bold. At the moment, they still say Andy Muschietti is attached to direct it;
2) The Reeves franchise is getting scrapped because creepy Gunn wants to cast his own Batman, and Arkham is being hijacked and twisted to fit into his vision. After all, Superman and Lois got cancelled because the studio didn't want another Superman project to compete with the DCU version. Besides, why would Reeves go from playing studio politics to say Affleck is staying on when he wasn't, then the film becomes his own property...only to then produce another TV show for a competing vision of the character?;
3) There's no big deal, the film will get made and come out in 2026.
I don't have a stake in any of this, and I couldn't give a damn about these Batman reboots. But the fact that Gunn is writing Superman, Creature Commandos and another season of Peacemaker (despite he stupidly said the first season isn't even canon to his planned DCU continuity at all), goes to show everything not written by Gunn is getting shoved aside.
The sooner people realise Gunn is poison to the DC brand, the better.