Justice League Part 1 starts filming in less than two months

[The Laughing Fish]

I'll ignore the unnecessary and unsolicited attack by the poster below you, and simply say that irrespective of my opinion, I am giving an objective assessment of the situation taking into account the reaction, both critical and commercial and the underwhelming BO.  My own personal feelings about the film, good, bad or indifferent, are immaterial to this assessment.

I spoke about a 'flop' (some of my favourite films were flops) not about a turkey (industry speak for a film that is an artistic failure rather than simply a commercial one).

Nonetheless, I still think you need to watch the film. Forget about the critics and other people's opinions. What's important is what you think, and find out you think it's good, bad or okay, and whether this reaction is justified or not. You never know, you might learn the good stuff outweighs the bad...or it could be the opposite. But you won't know until you judge it for yourself.

I still think it's too premature to declare it a box office flop. Then again, I'm finding the film's box office situation very confusing.

[johnnygobbs]

I still think it's too premature to declare it a box office flop. Then again, I'm finding the film's box office situation very confusing.

'Flop' was admittedly too harsh a word.  Then again, when the first live-action movie to feature Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman together manages to make less money on its third weekend than The Boss (an R-rated Melissa McCarthy comedy) it's surely not good news...

[Wayne49]

You know there's a difference between offering a industry opinion on a film and just stating that the movie is awful without seeing it. I had enormous reserves about this film because of Zack Snyder. But as a Batman fan I paid for my ticket and let my own opinion be formed in this mess. The reserves I had were well founded based on how I walked out after seeing it. The casting is fine, but ( in my opinion) Snyder is just not a good director for telling stories. Especially those with multiple subplots running. Motivations are paper thin and he seems more bothered by the story as opposed to just getting to his next spectacle.

Now with that said, I can swing with a thin story if I can have a relatively good time in the world the director creates. I like many of the visuals Snyder creates. THAT is his strong suit. But because he went on a tear to make everyone so somber, it's nearly impossible for me to get UP for a movie this long with this many characters having so many issues. I'm a VERY forgiving person when it comes to most of these movies. Give me a taste of a comic book and I can roll with the vast majority of them. But this one was painfully begging for more story structure and felt edited in a very odd way. Perhaps a director's cut will fix these issues and I can champion this later. That's my hope because I LOVE Batman. So for me the jury is out on this film until I see everything Snyder put together. Perhaps those gaps will be filled in a longer version rumored to come out on DVD and we can find more agreement on the totality of what he envisioned.

But regarding the box office run, there is nothing to defend here. It's absolutely front-loaded and performing just as bad as the Fantastic Four or even a Twilight film in terms of drops. Add in the iconic nature of these heroes and the fact it's already given up first place to a movie with a worst critical score than it has for it's third weekend is horrid. Long pause... Did I say anywhere in that statement the actual movie sucks? No I didn't. But it's collapse IS terrible. In fact it's historical. Let's forget whether we all loved this film or have mixed opinions. This movie broke all known tracking records for advance ticket sales. It beat even Star Wars. By every account that matters, it was critic proof opening weekend. And while it didn't break any all time records domestically for that weekend (except for the March/Spring/Easter category where big films never get released) it was certainly off to a incredible start. If we factor in foreign markets it actually DID break all-time records in some regions. So after THREE DAYS and Thursday night shows this film had already grossed over $400 million worldwide. A little over three days folks.

Two full weeks and a third weekend out, it hasn't reproduced that tally again the world over. Star Wars, which BVS beat with advance ticket sales, was already at $1.09 billion in it's first 12 days. BVS at 18 days is losing screens and is still over $16 million from even hitting the $800 million mark worldwide. It's already fallen out of first place by a film with a worse critical score and it loses it's 3D and IMAX screens next weekend to the Disney juggernaut Jungle Book which is currently sporting high critical review and big demand. It's decline is both sad and breathtaking. Once again, this is the business perspective which the entire industry is talking about.  Yes, it's made descent money, but that money was mostly made on it's first weekend thanks to WB releasing it worldwide simultaneously...The smartest thing they have done through this whole ordeal. Right now it looks like it will have to crawl to make $850 worldwide and even that figure is in doubt. Not a bad number if we're talking about a film that has been out for a couple of months and had good legs. But the fact that more than half it's total gross was achieved in three days is historically bad.

A flop? Hardly. A profit maker? Of course! Add in the toys and DVD sales WB will make some descent bank. But a historical collapse? Absolutely. The critics didn't ruin this film. Scores of people around the world ignored the critics and went opening weekend. Thank God they did! Because they're not coming back and WOM is toxic. That's the asterisk this film will have to bare. It had worse drops than B&R. And that movie was released during the summer with competition around it and no 3D and IMAX screens to help prop it up. So whether you loved it or had mixed feelings about it, the brand has taken a hit. The average person is not worried about the box office. But the average person will remember what they saw from this series. So WB has allot to consider since Justice League is due to start filming tomorrow. And none of that has a thing to do with whether I or anyone here liked the movie. That is the general public speaking. And from what reported sources around the studio have been saying, WB is listening. Let's see what happens and hope for the best. After all, this is Batman and majority of us want him to succeed. I certainly do!

[riddler]

I think it's a valid point JG and for the record I don't see anywhere where you've offered an unqualified opinion. The film is underperforming and so far is a critical failure. You don't need to have seen the film to be able to decipher those two things. Whether people liked it or not is secondary, I liked the Green Lantern film but can easily tell I'm in the minority and the powers that be were right to scrap it and start over. WB and DC's primary goals were making money, pleasing fans came later.

Okay enough about JG's opinions, time to give some of my own.  The box office is currently at 680 million, it seemed 800 mil was the realistic goal for it to be considered profitable. It probably will fall just short at it which means it is underwhelming but not to the extent to consider it a flop. So JLA should be going ahead with the realization that improvements must be made. Another positive is a high expectation for video sales; there's an extended version and some people will buy it twice. Also assuming they DO go ahead and continue the series some people will want to see this film to prepare for the others (hence why I'm rushing to see Ant man before civil war gets here). It would severely hurt suicide squad and wonder woman if it were announced the remainder of the series is nixed. Don't cancel, just do it better next time around!

[The Laughing Fish]

The box office is currently at 680 million, it seemed 800 mil was the realistic goal for it to be considered profitable.

It's actually sitting at more than $783 million at this point in time, according to Box Office Mojo.

Source: http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=superman2015.htm

[johnnygobbs]

So JLA should be going ahead with the realization that improvements must be made. Another positive is a high expectation for video sales; there's an extended version and some people will buy it twice. Also assuming they DO go ahead and continue the series some people will want to see this film to prepare for the others (hence why I'm rushing to see Ant man before civil war gets here). It would severely hurt suicide squad and wonder woman if it were announced the remainder of the series is nixed. Don't cancel, just do it better next time around!

From a purely financial perspective (particularly in terms of their share price), WB has to plough ahead with the films currently on their DCEU slate (not to mention the fact that SS and WW are already practically complete).  However, I wonder if they will now scrap JL: Part Two and focus on more or less wrapping up the DCEU once production has completed on JL: Part One, and then look towards initiating a soft reboot (perhaps explained as a different 'Earth') that incorporates all the elements people like about the current franchise, including Affleck's Batman, and most of the associated Batman elements, and possibly Gadot's Wonder Woman and Suicide Squad, whilst 'modifying' those elements that do not seem to be as popular, the Superman-related elements and Snyder's overall tone, in particular.

I'm just speculating of course, but it's a suggestion of a scenario that might be able to please practically everyone including those who like MOS and BvS and want to see a satisfactory resolution to Snyder's franchise, and everyone else who would ideally like to see some significant changes to the current DCEU if not a whole-scale reboot.

[riddler]

So JLA should be going ahead with the realization that improvements must be made. Another positive is a high expectation for video sales; there's an extended version and some people will buy it twice. Also assuming they DO go ahead and continue the series some people will want to see this film to prepare for the others (hence why I'm rushing to see Ant man before civil war gets here). It would severely hurt suicide squad and wonder woman if it were announced the remainder of the series is nixed. Don't cancel, just do it better next time around!

From a purely financial perspective (particularly in terms of their share price), WB has to plough ahead with the films currently on their DCEU slate (not to mention the fact that SS and WW are already practically complete).  However, I wonder if they will now scrap JL: Part Two and focus on more or less wrapping up the DCEU once production has completed on JL: Part One, and then look towards initiating a soft reboot (perhaps explained as a different 'Earth') that incorporates all the elements people like about the current franchise, including Affleck's Batman, and most of the associated Batman elements, and possibly Gadot's Wonder Woman and Suicide Squad, whilst 'modifying' those elements that do not seem to be as popular, the Superman-related elements and Snyder's overall tone, in particular.

I'm just speculating of course, but it's a suggestion of a scenario that might be able to please practically everyone including those who like MOS and BvS and want to see a satisfactory resolution to Snyder's franchise, and everyone else who would ideally like to see some significant changes to the current DCEU if not a whole-scale reboot.

If we're looking at it purely from a story standpoint (ignoring finances), everything is salvagable. The criticisms of the film are not pertaining to plot points or the actors themselves so I don't see why they can't salvage a great film the next time around.

[johnnygobbs]

If we're looking at it purely from a story standpoint (ignoring finances), everything is salvagable. The criticisms of the film are not pertaining to plot points or the actors themselves so I don't see why they can't salvage a great film the next time around.

Then what do they pertain to?

Because I've seen a lot of criticism directed at the portrayal and casting of Lex, as well as confusion over the character's motivations and plans.

Surely the logical thing to do now would be to let Zack Snyder complete his trilogy with Justice League.  It makes perfect sense, allowing the series to build up film-by-film from Superman, to Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman, to finally the entire JLA team.

If it's possible I'd try to incorporate Superman into the film as a third act saviour who comes to the rest of the team's support, after literally rising from the dead, thus giving Cavill and his version of Superman a rousing, dignified send-off.

The Warner Bros can proceed with a 'soft' reboot of the franchise that ignores Snyder's separate trilogy.  Alternatively, they could do the smart thing and have multiple separate franchises running at the same time (i.e. Wonder Woman, Batman, Green Lantern, Suicide Squad etc) without feeling the need to tie them altogether in some potentially contrived shared universe.  The added bonus of such a strategy is that it would differentiate WB's comic-book movie slate from the MCU, as well as allowing filmmakers to do their own thing, and potentially fail, without feeling beholden to anyone else's vision, which is surely a strategy that critics, with their admiration for the 'auteur theory', could and should endorse.

[Silver Nemesis]

Birthmoviesdeath.com is claiming the mysterious figure in the deleted 'Communion' scene is the main antagonist in Justice League: Part One. They're also reporting the identity of this character as Steppenwolf: http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2016/05/11/we-know-the-villain-of-justice-league

Steppenwolf was one of the two characters we speculated it might be in our site feature: 'Comic Influences on Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016)'.

Mother Boxes also appear during a deleted scene involving Lex and a mysterious figure that appears before him aboard the wreckage of the Kryptonian scout ship. It's not entirely clear which character this apparition is meant to represent, but it's most likely a figure from Jack Kirby's Fourth World mythology. Two possible candidates include: 

• Yuga Khan, former ruler of Apokolips and father of Uxas (aka Darkseid)
• Steppenwolf, brother-in-law of Yuga Khan and uncle to Uxas/Darkseid

- See more at: http://www.batman-online.com/features/2016/4/9/comic-influences-on-batman-v-superman-dawn-of-justice-2016/4#sthash.6bHqWfj5.dpuf

[The Dark Knight]

Makes sense. I could see them defeating this guy, only for Darkseid himself to appear in JL2.