Topics

How do you assess the overall performance (i.e. stealth, solidity) of the '92 batsuit? In particular, what are its main strenghts and flaws?

A little poll to see if this is actually the general feeling about Batman Returns.

Do you think that in "Returns" Batman's persona is challenged more seriously by his antagonists compared to the first movie?

... inspired by the previous post :-)

What is the most dangerous / insidious / effective assault Catwoman launches against Batman?

Batman found himself in many difficult situations in BR: when was he on the brink of totally losing control and/or being severely harmed?

You decide! :-)

"Maybe you should retire..."

It recently occured to me how much Catwoman's ambition to substitute Batman as Gotham's vigilante resonate with Lady Macbeth's self-empowering tactics. In a way, both charachters tried to reach major power at the expense of their male counterparts, Lady Macbeth by pushing her husband into assasination, Catwoman by playing a crucial role in framing Batman for the same crime.
Also, the bad influence they both had on their partners has similar effects: while Lady Macbeth was essentially an evil counsellor incidentally corrupting the king's morality, Catwoman uses her sexuality not only to weaken Batman's fighting skills, but also to undermine the very core of his vigilantism in order to eventually "force" him into retirement and possibly take his place.

In addition, it's interesting to notice that both women severely chastize their partners' lack of initiative or failures to underscore their inability to properly do their job. However, while Lady Macbeth saw her rebukes to her husband as a means to spur him into action, Catwoman ridicules Batman in order to demoralize him and convince him that his crusade is futile. Thier last exchange on the rooftop is particularly significant. Catwoman blamed Batman for having killed her the previous night when he reacted to her seduction/stabbing, although she was perfectly aware that she had viciously deceived him with the promise of sex. When he clumsily tried to apologize for that, she immediately derided him by shifting the topic on his general inability to save women. Therefore, Batman's "failure" to deal with her seduction got immediately linked to his insuccess to rescue the Ice Princess, and allowed Catwoman to again use her sarcasm about the retirement option and eventually punish Batman with another stabbing.

Therefore, although Catwoman's ways are much more direct, they probably serve the same agenda as Lady Macbeth's in terms of power play (Freud could also have something to say on the gender war sourrounding their confrontations).

Hi, it may be interesting to see what you think of Catwoman's fighting skills compared to Batman's so... enjoy!

Feel free to support your choice with every explanation you want, just please don't argue like it happened in the last thread I started: although this community is very nice and creative, in all honesty it was really sad and quite discouraging to witness that... 

Have a nice day! 

I know the question sounds provoking to most supporters of the Dark Knight, but I got this idea after probably the 10th time I watched Batman Returns. The thought is just based on what I believe are some (probably avoidable)  bad decisions he made that had painful consequences for him: a brief summary for you to question!

1)   Non-existent cooperation with Gotham Police.
Batman singlehandedly defeats the Circus Gang during their first assault in Gotham Plaza, which is great. However, he doesn't even attempt to cooperate with the Police to prevent further attacks, he doesn't share information, nor he tries to help them with the investigations. As a result, policemen don't really trust him and are ready to shoot him on sight when there's a slight possibility that he had actually pushed the Ice Princess off the ledge. He might have been framed by the Penguin and Catwoman for that murder, but he first put himself in a very ambiguous position by refusing every contact with law enforcement authorities.

2)   Poor investigation on the relationship between Max Shreck  and the Penguin.
A little more detective work could have given evidence that they were conspiring against the city. Bruce knew that Max's plan for the "power plant" was at least very suspicious, so when he publicly endorsed Oswald's run for major, it should have been obvious that, in order to stop them, he just needed to expose their connections. It should be noted that Selina, who apparently had no technical background on that field, was able to understand the inherent dangers of the power plant (Bruce also had access to the plans and blueprints). Similarly, Batman should have noted the strange "coincidence" of the Penguin's saving of the major's son.
 
3)   The batrang.
This is possibly Batman's worst mistake. Since he couldn't stop the Poodle Lady from stealing his   batrang, he could have at least told Commissioner Gordon (again point number one) that one of his devices had been stolen by a criminal gang and that it could potentially be used against civilians. Thanks to this advantage, the Penguin was able to frame him and turn the entire Police against him.

4)   Catwoman.
Batman gives Catwoman a dangerous upper hand because he doesn't deal with her properly, with extremely painful consequences. First, he fell for the "How could you? I'm a woman!" trick just when he had finally managed to stop her. Second, by allowing her to explore his rubber suit with her clawed hand, he helped her find the weak spot of the armor she then punctured. I can understand he was confused by her seduction (which at one point bordered on fetishistic sex), but she had already proven to be a very deceitful foe and he should have neutralized her "weapons" first (i.e. when she caressed his face, she came very close to scratch him!). Finally, Batman hesitated too much during the "kiss under the mistletoe", especially when Catwoman began to openly ridicule him – instead, he clumsily tried to apologize and gave her one more opportunity to stab him.

5)   The Ice Princess
I concede that rescuing her was very difficult, but he should have acted faster when he saw her tied up on the ledge.

Enjoy!   

It goes without saying that The Penguin and Catwoman's "rational" criminal agendas make them clash with Batman, but is there something more psychological and obscure that motivates them?

I came to the conclusion that they both somehow try to vent their frustrations on him, as if they unconsciously recognized that Batman had, to a certain extent, the same behavioural problems and that they could redeem/cure themselves by making him experience the same complexes.

The Penguin has an intense desire to be accepted by Gothamites (thus his attempt at becoming the mayor) despite his deformity. He then tries to challenge and then frame Batman (who is mildly accepted as the city protector) to substitute him and receive a little gratitude from the people. He also draws a parallel between his own monstrous features and Batman's intimidating disguise, mocking him a couple of times because he "wears a mask" (while the Penguin has no choice, his natural face is his mask, a circumstance he obviously regrets).

Catwoman instead tries to replace Batman by introducing her own brand of vigilantism, that takes to the extremes her aggressive feminist stance (vengeance against men and degradation of weak women). In that respect, she sarcastically tells Batman to retire after he failed to rescue the Ice Princess. Catwoman also unleashes on him the disappointments of Selina's unlucky affairs by turning them into sexual frustrations for Batman. A notable example is her eroticizing the batsuit towards the end of their first fight, a tactic she uses to puncture Batman with her claws and deny him any form of physical pleasure.

What do you think?

Have you ever had the impression that, while fighting Batman, Catwoman wages a wicked psychological warfare on him?
She uses a wide range of verbal mockery (including double entendres) to ridicule his role of vigilante, coupled with an ambiguous approach towards his costumed persona that seems conceived to undermine his values and his effectiveness as Gotham's protector...

Hi everybody!
Catwoman gave Batman a vicious beating during their first confrontation, but toward the end of the fight she seemed to change her mind and suddenly began to seduce him.

The scene when she runs her clawed hand down Batman's torso is very ambiguous, but, judging from his reaction, it's clear that there's something sexual going on... More precisely, we don't actually see how Catwoman used her hand on the batsuit so... let's try to guess! 

Hi there,
Batman sometimes makes mistakes - not many, but there are times in which the consequences of those mistakes can be painful for him...
I've selected some circumstances where his judgment or readiness to intervene are not perfect - to be honest with him, this time also because he faces three enemies simultaneously...

Have fun and let me know your opinions!

Hi everybody,
I guess we can all agree that Batman Returns definitely has a stronger sexual undercurrent than its predecessor – and it's probably the adventure in which Batman more often finds himself in situations where he actually enjoys sensual pleasures.

Essentially, after many exchanges with other fans, I deduced that the general feeling was that eroticism surrounded the whole movie and was even perceived in apparently non sex-related scenes.

So I thought it could be interesting to find out which in your opinion are the sexiest scenes of the movie and why – just as a starting point for the poll, here's a list of sequences that emerged more frequently as "hot" in chronological order (max three choices available)

Hope you enjoy the idea and let me know your thoughts on the subject – have a nice day!

Hi!
I'm new here and I frankly don't know if this issue has already been discussed in the past, but I thought it would be interesting to know who in your opinion is Batman's most dangerous enemy in Burton's universe...

The idea came from the fact that the foes Batman has to deal with have a variety of tactics and fighting skills that sometimes give him a really bad time... so who's the one that proves to be a real physical threat to him and why? Is there a fighting sequence that in your opinion better shows that?

Have a nice day!