The Controversy

[Bobthegoon89]

Looking back anyone else feel all that backlash was a bit harsh?

I find it interesting that there were several controversial movies released that summer that were not to everybody's taste. Over 20 years however an audience has come back to them. Aside from Returns there was also Alien3 and even Bram Stoker's Dracula, all celebrating 20 years and all favourites of mine. But all were ahead of their time in terms of bleakness and doing things in a sequel the public did not expect nor want perhaps.

Are any videos available on youtube from around the time discussing the backlash with those irritating parent groups? lol They must be hilarious to see. I still to this day remember passing my local cinema, seeing Returns on the marquee and being turned down in seeing it by my mum lol Luckily I got it on VHS for that Christmas. It was like finding the Holy Grail. A new Batman film I hadn't yet seen! Just remember staring at the cover all that morning (that great 3 character poster). 

[riddler]

I was 9 years old at the time so likely one of these 'kids' being affected. I guess it mildly spooked me but not in the sense to make me wet my pants or have nightmares. I can't recall a single kid I knew being forbidden from seeing it and I had some classmates with very controlling and constrictive parents (ie ones which did not allow the simpsons) but alas it was the age of protest, look how parent groups ruined the Ninja turtle movies; first they got rid of the weapons, then they werent allowed to fight.

[Bobthegoon89]

Hahaha absolutely! And wasn't that first Ninja Turtles movie quite dark and violent? Cool stuff when you see it today to think we had that kind of edginess back then compared to today's kids. I feel things are so watered down these days. Look at all the new Batman cartoons kids get now. To me they all are such a step backwards after the sophistication of Bruce Timm and Paul Dini back in the early 90's. I remember my dad, who was just a casual Batman fan not steeped in the history as I am, loving that series because he couldn't believe what they could get away with.

In short we "90's guys" were quite lucky.

I was actually just 4 at the time far younger than yourself and I loved the movie lol I do think the rating the film got in the states was a little nuts in hindsight, just PG-13. Whereas here in the UK it was slated as a 15. I remember being a bit stunned a Batman film had achieved that serious looking rating symbol lol

I think it's a shame Mcdonalds had to cancel their tie ins. Have you seen their old stuff here on the net? They spared no expense putting the Bat logo everywhere. Wish I collected those cool collector cups they put out with scenes from the movie. Very cool artwork.

[riddler]

Hahaha absolutely! And wasn't that first Ninja Turtles movie quite dark and violent? Cool stuff when you see it today to think we had that kind of edginess back then compared to today's kids. I feel things are so watered down these days. Look at all the new Batman cartoons kids get now. To me they all are such a step backwards after the sophistication of Bruce Timm and Paul Dini back in the early 90's. I remember my dad, who was just a casual Batman fan not steeped in the history as I am, loving that series because he couldn't believe what they could get away with.

In short we "90's guys" were quite lucky.

I was actually just 4 at the time far younger than yourself and I loved the movie lol I do think the rating the film got in the states was a little nuts in hindsight, just PG-13. Whereas here in the UK it was slated as a 15. I remember being a bit stunned a Batman film had achieved that serious looking rating symbol lol

I think it's a shame Mcdonalds had to cancel their tie ins. Have you seen their old stuff here on the net? They spared no expense putting the Bat logo everywhere. Wish I collected those cool collector cups they put out with scenes from the movie. Very cool artwork.

Ninja turtles i can some what understand; they had a cartoon on the go, plenty of toys, kids were clearly the target market. And that first film was dark and violent; think about the weapons they had; nunchuks, swords, a bo stick, and sais. It was a reasonable scenario to see  kids get their hands on one of those objects to dangerous results. THey also loved karate and so i can remember fighting being cool in school As mentioned the second film removed the weapons completely (they were there but never used), the third film removed the fighting completely. And i think as a kid i liked the sequels more than the first.  In the cartoon the villains were generally portrayed as stupid and incompetent.

Batman though had a wider following and given that the murder of his parents and corruption and dangerous villains were part of the mystique, it needed an element of darkness. Also with catwoman you have to have some sort of sexual tension, even the adam west show had it, just to a lesser degree.

[thecolorsblend]

Looking back anyone else feel all that backlash was a bit harsh?

It's best to try and contextualize these things. To the civilians in 1992, "Batman" still meant "Adam West". Leading off a Batman news story with "POW BIFF WHAM" was still considered clever (even though then as now I wish the hacks who do that would all catch athlete's foot and have to undergo amputation). So a Batman movie with all those S&M suggestions, Penguin's ribald comments, an overall darker Batman, all that stuff hit people right between the eyes. My dad, for one, was creeped the fvck out by some parts of it because he remembered Batman as he was circa the mid 60's.

In that context, I can kind of understand why some people revolted. They may well have thought there'd been some kind of bait and switch. I remember a few people complaining that Burton had changed Batman, had made him "all dark and stuff when he's supposed to be bright and wholesome". We all know better but you can't fault someone for having preconceived notions about these things.

Make no mistake though, if TDK had premiered in a similar social/cultural context as BR, there would've been a REAL crapstorm. People can revise history however they want when it comes to the Burton films but nobody can credibly argue that Burton isn't absolutely pivotal in changing the public's perceptions of what Batman can be. Without him, I truly believe the Nolan movies would've been DOA (if they'd been released at all). Thanks to him, Nolan was able to get away scott free with a level of darkness and grittiness that Burton would've been burned in effigy for.

[GBglide]

Wish I collected those cool collector cups they put out with scenes from the movie. Very cool artwork.

Let me tell you a tale of woe.

In '92 I worked fairly hard to get all those cups, I succeeded. I even got the Batman cup with the black lid. After drinking the pop, I washed the cups and put them away. I even made sure not to puncture the straw hole on the lids.

Jump ahead a few years, my mom is telling me about how she cleaned out the cabinets. "Are the Batman Returns cups still there?" I ask.  "Of course", she says "but I threw out those little frisbee things". My mom who never throws out anything tossed the lids because she didn't know what they were.

And yes, I'm still bitter about it. 

[Catwoman]

my parents hated it. i still finagled my way into going as catwoman for halloween but they were pissed about it lol.

[Bobthegoon89]

Looking back anyone else feel all that backlash was a bit harsh?

It's best to try and contextualize these things. To the civilians in 1992, "Batman" still meant "Adam West". Leading off a Batman news story with "POW BIFF WHAM" was still considered clever (even though then as now I wish the hacks who do that would all catch athlete's foot and have to undergo amputation). So a Batman movie with all those S&M suggestions, Penguin's ribald comments, an overall darker Batman, all that stuff hit people right between the eyes. My dad, for one, was creeped the fvck out by some parts of it because he remembered Batman as he was circa the mid 60's.

In that context, I can kind of understand why some people revolted. They may well have thought there'd been some kind of bait and switch. I remember a few people complaining that Burton had changed Batman, had made him "all dark and stuff when he's supposed to be bright and wholesome". We all know better but you can't fault someone for having preconceived notions about these things.

Make no mistake though, if TDK had premiered in a similar social/cultural context as BR, there would've been a REAL crapstorm. People can revise history however they want when it comes to the Burton films but nobody can credibly argue that Burton isn't absolutely pivotal in changing the public's perceptions of what Batman can be. Without him, I truly believe the Nolan movies would've been DOA (if they'd been released at all). Thanks to him, Nolan was able to get away scott free with a level of darkness and grittiness that Burton would've been burned in effigy for.

If you love the Burton films as much as I do I advise you to stay away from discussing them on imdb. Seriously there are some very strange "fans" on there who will stop at nothing to destroy all trace of them. I'll try and have a friendly discussion about them and recieve a great swathe of abuse at liking them at all. It's amazing, upsetting, annoying and ultimately hilarious after a while. I cannot wait for the next Batman film to redress the balance so to speak so all the Nolan buffs have their own competition lol

My own dad loved Adam West and I confess so do I! lol Obviously I prefer the darker type Batman but have no problem diving over both sides of the fence as it were. In fact I saw Adam West's Batman movie around the same time as Keaton's debut. To me I loved them both. My dad never had a problem with the darkness of Returns. I remember him loving the fact Penguin had a monocle and cigarrette holder (however briefly) that flashbacked to Burgess Meredith.

[Bobthegoon89]

Wish I collected those cool collector cups they put out with scenes from the movie. Very cool artwork.

Let me tell you a tale of woe.

In '92 I worked fairly hard to get all those cups, I succeeded. I even got the Batman cup with the black lid. After drinking the pop, I washed the cups and put them away. I even made sure not to puncture the straw hole on the lids.

Jump ahead a few years, my mom is telling me about how she cleaned out the cabinets. "Are the Batman Returns cups still there?" I ask.  "Of course", she says "but I threw out those little frisbee things". My mom who never throws out anything tossed the lids because she didn't know what they were.

And yes, I'm still bitter about it. 

Oh man! That's too bad. I had one from Jurassic Park that after years in the cupboard it's artwork slowly withered away. They were obviously done by the same people those cups. Had the T-Rex attacking the electrified car.

I'm fortunate in that my parents knew how much this stuff meant to me. They never tossed anything out without consulting me first. And they got a kick out of finding stuff for me that was hard to find. I have the Wayne Manor/Batcave playset from Returns Kenner line which I hear is in such hot demand on ebay now. Given the rarity of it now I'm glad as hell I got the thing back then.

I know my dad would simply have gone into Mcdonalds and asked them what cups they still had in stock. He would never settle for having copies lol

[thecolorsblend]

If you love the Burton films as much as I do I advise you to stay away from discussing them on imdb. Seriously there are some very strange "fans" on there who will stop at nothing to destroy all trace of them. I'll try and have a friendly discussion about them and recieve a great swathe of abuse at liking them at all. It's amazing, upsetting, annoying and ultimately hilarious after a while. I cannot wait for the next Batman film to redress the balance so to speak so all the Nolan buffs have their own competition lol

The more, shall we say, devoted of those people really do come off like some kind of religious cult. A YouTube videocast guy received death threats just for saying he hadn't seen TDK yet (about a month after it came out). He wasn't being mean spirited, he just said he hadn't seen it yet and so they went off on him.

My own dad loved Adam West and I confess so do I! lol Obviously I prefer the darker type Batman but have no problem diving over both sides of the fence as it were. In fact I saw Adam West's Batman movie around the same time as Keaton's debut. To me I loved them both. My dad never had a problem with the darkness of Returns. I remember him loving the fact Penguin had a monocle and cigarrette holder (however briefly) that flashbacked to Burgess Meredith.

I like the West show but I freaking DESPISE the legacy it has left behind.