Batman-Online.com

Despite all the hoopla over Dawn of Justice and the DCCU as a whole, WB is going ahead and will bring us a slew of superhero movies over the next few years.

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/02/21/justice-league-starts-April-11

...and we're pleased.  ;D

I'm confident that the Justice League movie will have so many endorsements for merchandise and toys that the majority of that film will likely get made for free before it's all said and done. I think it's smart to go ahead and allude to that announcement before BVS opens to help rain in the excitement to give that project the best numbers it can get opening weekend. But when it comes to financing, I'm completely sold that Warner Bros has all the backing it needs to glide soundly into this project. The promotional tie ins will just be massive, not to mention those segments of the market wanting exclusivity rights for movie related product. The licensing is just monstrous.

A couple of weeks ago, Zack Snyder released this picture of him together with Jason Momoa behind the scenes. You can see the Flash's mask and a more traditional looking Aquaman costume on the left hand side.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cb2xyv5VIAEosno.jpg:large)

Only 2 days to go before filming begins. I wonder how long before we see some set pics.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sat,  9 Apr  2016, 15:06
Only 2 days to go before filming begins. I wonder how long before we see some set pics.

Are they still doing this?  Surely it would make more sense to put the film on hold and assess the post-BvS reaction.  I realise that might knock a few points off WB's current share-price but can they risk making a potential flop (seeing how audiences are increasingly turning against the DCEU)?

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sat,  9 Apr  2016, 15:06
Only 2 days to go before filming begins. I wonder how long before we see some set pics.

Based of the Suicide Squad leaks, 2 days. lol.

Quote from: johnnygobbs on Sat,  9 Apr  2016, 15:10

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sat,  9 Apr  2016, 15:06
Only 2 days to go before filming begins. I wonder how long before we see some set pics.

Are they still doing this?  Surely it would make more sense to put the film on hold and assess the post-BvS reaction.  I realise that might knock a few points off WB's current share-price but can they risk making a potential flop (seeing how audiences are increasingly turning against the DCEU)?

I guess we'll find out on Monday.

The DCEU is certainly off to a rough start, but I think it can be salvaged. There are lots of diehard DC fans who love MoS and BvS. It's just a case of winning over the other half of the fan base and extending that appeal to a wider audience. Both MoS and BvS got a mixed response from critics and fans, but neither is universally hated the way something like Fantastic Four (2015) is. And neither film flopped at the box office. BvS looks like it's going to finish with a WW gross in excess of $800 million. That's a lot lower than Warner Bros would've liked, but with additional revenue from streaming services, DVD sales, promotional tie-ins and other merchandise, they'll still make a profit.

A problem lies in the fact they're already committed to several other films that will likely reflect a similar creative trajectory as BvS. Suicide Squad is complete, filming wraps on Wonder Woman later this month, and they're about to roll cameras on Justice League the day after tomorrow. They're also pretty far along with preproduction on Aquaman. So they can't just scrap the whole thing this late in the day. And I don't think the majority of fans would really want them to anyway.

James Wan has assured us Aquaman will have a different tone from MoS and BvS, and Snyder's wife has made a similar promise regarding the tone of Justice League. However Gal Gadot has said that Wonder Woman has quite a dark, grim tone, and Suicide Squad looks like it's going to be dark too, albeit with some black humour thrown in. Basically, WW and SS will be mostly unaffected by the response to BvS. I suppose WB might add a bit more humour, but they'll more or less stick to the original plan. I don't think we'll see any significant change in direction for the DCEU until Justice League Part 1 and Aquaman, by which point the tone will start to become more balanced and Snyder's creative influence will lessen. Perhaps MoS, BvS, SS and WW will be grouped together as DCEU Phase 1: The Dark Age. Then Justice League Part 1 will denote the beginning of a new era for the franchise.

Ideally it might be better to delay JL while they rethink their approach. But I expect they'll plough ahead with the shooting schedule as planned. Delays will prove costly and they'll want to save face and project a show of confidence. Man of Steel and Batman v Superman represent Snyder's undiluted vision, but we probably won't see any more films like that in the future. From now on, WB will be reining him in and shooting for a more balanced tone. Assuming they do proceed with the filming of Justice League as planned, here are a few steps I think WB needs to take with the future of the DCEU:

•   Rein in their budgets. The average MCU solo film costs around $150-170 million. Both DCEU releases so far have cost well over $200 million. They need to start making these films more economically and reserve the $200+ million budgets for when they've already established an audience for themselves. That'll put less pressure on their films to bring in the big bucks.

•   Keep Zack Snyder in check. Generally I'd say the studio should get out of the way and let a director indulge their artistic vision. But in Snyder's case, his vision is a big part of the problem for many people. So while I don't think they should flat out silence his creative voice, I do think they should exert some pressure on him to show restraint. They need to try and strike a creative middle ground that satisfies both comic fans and newcomers. 

•   Don't assume the audience knows the mythology. By racing to the Justice League, WB runs the risk of cramming too many new elements into each film. I saw BvS with two people who knew nothing about the mythology beyond what they'd seen in previous movies and TV shows, and both of them were thoroughly confused by certain parts of the film (the 'Knightmare' sequence, the Flash's warning to Batman, references to metahumans, Mother Boxes, etc). While these scenes make sense to fans of the comics, there's nothing self-explanatory about them for newcomers. WB needs to carefully introduce one element at a time, gradually easing the audience into the mythology before finally connecting the dots when they reach the Justice League. Throwing all their eggs into one basket is simply too alienating for the casual cinemagoer. Which brings me to my next point.

•   Focus on solo films. Start with characters that already have some foothold in the public awareness. Suicide Squad has the Joker, and Wonder Woman has the eponymous heroine. So both of those should do ok. But how are newcomers going to react to characters like Cyborg and Shazam that they've likely never heard of? Fast track the Batman solo film. Maybe move one of the other films to a later release date and give its original slot to Batman. Also focus on the Flash. He's popular right now thanks to the CW show, and many other people know him from pop culture references on programmes like The Big Bang Theory. Batman and the Flash are both solid investments for solo movies, as are the Joker and Wonder Woman. Once WB has built up audience trust using familiar characters, then they can start bringing in the more obscure heroes.

•   Listen to constructive criticism and try to take it on board. Not all the criticism is coming from haters. Much of it is coming from DC fans who want these films to be good and to succeed. It's fine having confidence in your creative vision, but don't be so arrogant as to completely ignore what the fans themselves want out of these movies.

Anyway, those are a few of my thoughts on the subject. Failure is one of the great freedoms - when you've struck out, there's nowhere else left to go but up. And I think things are going to improve for the DCEU from now on. In four months, Suicide Squad comes out. It's the fourth live action movie to pit Batman against the Joker, the last one being TDK back in 2008. It's got a talented director at the helm, a good cast and a budget that's rumoured to be much lower than Snyder's films. Expectations are going to be lower for this after MoS and BvS, but that might work in its favour.

I know DC fans are feeling a bit dejected right now, but I think we should try and stay optimistic. We've only got a few more months before Batfleck returns. This could be where the tide turns. Right now there's an air of defeat hanging over the DC fan base, but by the end of August that might have transformed into an air of triumph.

Quote from: johnnygobbs on Sat,  9 Apr  2016, 15:10
Are they still doing this?  Surely it would make more sense to put the film on hold and assess the post-BvS reaction.  I realise that might knock a few points off WB's current share-price but can they risk making a potential flop (seeing how audiences are increasingly turning against the DCEU)?

Have you actually seen BvS yet? I have, and while I personally don't think it's as great as I hoped it to be, it's not the big pile of garbage that some people are making it out to be either. If you haven't seen it yet, I suggest you give it a chance and then form your own opinion about it.

Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sun, 10 Apr  2016, 04:49

Quote from: johnnygobbs on Sat,  9 Apr  2016, 15:10
Are they still doing this?  Surely it would make more sense to put the film on hold and assess the post-BvS reaction.  I realise that might knock a few points off WB's current share-price but can they risk making a potential flop (seeing how audiences are increasingly turning against the DCEU)?

Have you actually seen BvS yet? I have, and while I personally don't think it's as great as I hoped it to be, it's not the big pile of garbage that some people are making it out to be either. If you haven't seen it yet, I suggest you give it a chance and then form your own opinion about it.

He'd rather run his ignorant mouth and use others' paid opinions as though they're his own instead of shedding the blithering sheep act and actually forming his own opinion.

I can fully respect and understand the opinions of people who saw it and just didn't like it but if someone hasn't seen/isn't gonna see it and proceeds to use other's opinions ad nauseam to tell us how awful it is when they're incapable of forming their own opinion, don't waste our time cause you're not going it add anything remotely worthwhile to the conversation. Just shut up and move on.

Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sun, 10 Apr  2016, 04:49

Quote from: johnnygobbs on Sat,  9 Apr  2016, 15:10
Are they still doing this?  Surely it would make more sense to put the film on hold and assess the post-BvS reaction.  I realise that might knock a few points off WB's current share-price but can they risk making a potential flop (seeing how audiences are increasingly turning against the DCEU)?

Have you actually seen BvS yet? I have, and while I personally don't think it's as great as I hoped it to be, it's not the big pile of garbage that some people are making it out to be either. If you haven't seen it yet, I suggest you give it a chance and then form your own opinion about it.

I'll ignore the unnecessary and unsolicited attack by the poster below you, and simply say that irrespective of my opinion, I am giving an objective assessment of the situation taking into account the reaction, both critical and commercial and the underwhelming BO.  My own personal feelings about the film, good, bad or indifferent, are immaterial to this assessment.

I spoke about a 'flop' (some of my favourite films were flops) not about a turkey (industry speak for a film that is an artistic failure rather than simply a commercial one).

Quote from: johnnygobbs on Sun, 10 Apr  2016, 07:14
I'll ignore the unnecessary and unsolicited attack by the poster below you, and simply say that irrespective of my opinion, I am giving an objective assessment of the situation taking into account the reaction, both critical and commercial and the underwhelming BO.  My own personal feelings about the film, good, bad or indifferent, are immaterial to this assessment.

I spoke about a 'flop' (some of my favourite films were flops) not about a turkey (industry speak for a film that is an artistic failure rather than simply a commercial one).

Nonetheless, I still think you need to watch the film. Forget about the critics and other people's opinions. What's important is what you think, and find out you think it's good, bad or okay, and whether this reaction is justified or not. You never know, you might learn the good stuff outweighs the bad...or it could be the opposite. But you won't know until you judge it for yourself.

I still think it's too premature to declare it a box office flop. Then again, I'm finding the film's box office situation very confusing.

Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sun, 10 Apr  2016, 07:26I still think it's too premature to declare it a box office flop. Then again, I'm finding the film's box office situation very confusing.

'Flop' was admittedly too harsh a word.  Then again, when the first live-action movie to feature Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman together manages to make less money on its third weekend than The Boss (an R-rated Melissa McCarthy comedy) it's surely not good news... :-\

You know there's a difference between offering a industry opinion on a film and just stating that the movie is awful without seeing it. I had enormous reserves about this film because of Zack Snyder. But as a Batman fan I paid for my ticket and let my own opinion be formed in this mess. The reserves I had were well founded based on how I walked out after seeing it. The casting is fine, but ( in my opinion) Snyder is just not a good director for telling stories. Especially those with multiple subplots running. Motivations are paper thin and he seems more bothered by the story as opposed to just getting to his next spectacle.

Now with that said, I can swing with a thin story if I can have a relatively good time in the world the director creates. I like many of the visuals Snyder creates. THAT is his strong suit. But because he went on a tear to make everyone so somber, it's nearly impossible for me to get UP for a movie this long with this many characters having so many issues. I'm a VERY forgiving person when it comes to most of these movies. Give me a taste of a comic book and I can roll with the vast majority of them. But this one was painfully begging for more story structure and felt edited in a very odd way. Perhaps a director's cut will fix these issues and I can champion this later. That's my hope because I LOVE Batman. So for me the jury is out on this film until I see everything Snyder put together. Perhaps those gaps will be filled in a longer version rumored to come out on DVD and we can find more agreement on the totality of what he envisioned.

But regarding the box office run, there is nothing to defend here. It's absolutely front-loaded and performing just as bad as the Fantastic Four or even a Twilight film in terms of drops. Add in the iconic nature of these heroes and the fact it's already given up first place to a movie with a worst critical score than it has for it's third weekend is horrid. Long pause... Did I say anywhere in that statement the actual movie sucks? No I didn't. But it's collapse IS terrible. In fact it's historical. Let's forget whether we all loved this film or have mixed opinions. This movie broke all known tracking records for advance ticket sales. It beat even Star Wars. By every account that matters, it was critic proof opening weekend. And while it didn't break any all time records domestically for that weekend (except for the March/Spring/Easter category where big films never get released) it was certainly off to a incredible start. If we factor in foreign markets it actually DID break all-time records in some regions. So after THREE DAYS and Thursday night shows this film had already grossed over $400 million worldwide. A little over three days folks.

Two full weeks and a third weekend out, it hasn't reproduced that tally again the world over. Star Wars, which BVS beat with advance ticket sales, was already at $1.09 billion in it's first 12 days. BVS at 18 days is losing screens and is still over $16 million from even hitting the $800 million mark worldwide. It's already fallen out of first place by a film with a worse critical score and it loses it's 3D and IMAX screens next weekend to the Disney juggernaut Jungle Book which is currently sporting high critical review and big demand. It's decline is both sad and breathtaking. Once again, this is the business perspective which the entire industry is talking about.  Yes, it's made descent money, but that money was mostly made on it's first weekend thanks to WB releasing it worldwide simultaneously...The smartest thing they have done through this whole ordeal. Right now it looks like it will have to crawl to make $850 worldwide and even that figure is in doubt. Not a bad number if we're talking about a film that has been out for a couple of months and had good legs. But the fact that more than half it's total gross was achieved in three days is historically bad.

A flop? Hardly. A profit maker? Of course! Add in the toys and DVD sales WB will make some descent bank. But a historical collapse? Absolutely. The critics didn't ruin this film. Scores of people around the world ignored the critics and went opening weekend. Thank God they did! Because they're not coming back and WOM is toxic. That's the asterisk this film will have to bare. It had worse drops than B&R. And that movie was released during the summer with competition around it and no 3D and IMAX screens to help prop it up. So whether you loved it or had mixed feelings about it, the brand has taken a hit. The average person is not worried about the box office. But the average person will remember what they saw from this series. So WB has allot to consider since Justice League is due to start filming tomorrow. And none of that has a thing to do with whether I or anyone here liked the movie. That is the general public speaking. And from what reported sources around the studio have been saying, WB is listening. Let's see what happens and hope for the best. After all, this is Batman and majority of us want him to succeed. I certainly do!

I think it's a valid point JG and for the record I don't see anywhere where you've offered an unqualified opinion. The film is underperforming and so far is a critical failure. You don't need to have seen the film to be able to decipher those two things. Whether people liked it or not is secondary, I liked the Green Lantern film but can easily tell I'm in the minority and the powers that be were right to scrap it and start over. WB and DC's primary goals were making money, pleasing fans came later.

Okay enough about JG's opinions, time to give some of my own.  :) The box office is currently at 680 million, it seemed 800 mil was the realistic goal for it to be considered profitable. It probably will fall just short at it which means it is underwhelming but not to the extent to consider it a flop. So JLA should be going ahead with the realization that improvements must be made. Another positive is a high expectation for video sales; there's an extended version and some people will buy it twice. Also assuming they DO go ahead and continue the series some people will want to see this film to prepare for the others (hence why I'm rushing to see Ant man before civil war gets here). It would severely hurt suicide squad and wonder woman if it were announced the remainder of the series is nixed. Don't cancel, just do it better next time around!

Quote from: riddler on Mon, 11 Apr  2016, 13:32
The box office is currently at 680 million, it seemed 800 mil was the realistic goal for it to be considered profitable.

It's actually sitting at more than $783 million at this point in time, according to Box Office Mojo.

Source: http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=superman2015.htm

Quote from: riddler on Mon, 11 Apr  2016, 13:32So JLA should be going ahead with the realization that improvements must be made. Another positive is a high expectation for video sales; there's an extended version and some people will buy it twice. Also assuming they DO go ahead and continue the series some people will want to see this film to prepare for the others (hence why I'm rushing to see Ant man before civil war gets here). It would severely hurt suicide squad and wonder woman if it were announced the remainder of the series is nixed. Don't cancel, just do it better next time around!

From a purely financial perspective (particularly in terms of their share price), WB has to plough ahead with the films currently on their DCEU slate (not to mention the fact that SS and WW are already practically complete).  However, I wonder if they will now scrap JL: Part Two and focus on more or less wrapping up the DCEU once production has completed on JL: Part One, and then look towards initiating a soft reboot (perhaps explained as a different 'Earth') that incorporates all the elements people like about the current franchise, including Affleck's Batman, and most of the associated Batman elements, and possibly Gadot's Wonder Woman and Suicide Squad, whilst 'modifying' those elements that do not seem to be as popular, the Superman-related elements and Snyder's overall tone, in particular.

I'm just speculating of course, but it's a suggestion of a scenario that might be able to please practically everyone including those who like MOS and BvS and want to see a satisfactory resolution to Snyder's franchise, and everyone else who would ideally like to see some significant changes to the current DCEU if not a whole-scale reboot.

Quote from: johnnygobbs on Mon, 11 Apr  2016, 13:46

Quote from: riddler on Mon, 11 Apr  2016, 13:32So JLA should be going ahead with the realization that improvements must be made. Another positive is a high expectation for video sales; there's an extended version and some people will buy it twice. Also assuming they DO go ahead and continue the series some people will want to see this film to prepare for the others (hence why I'm rushing to see Ant man before civil war gets here). It would severely hurt suicide squad and wonder woman if it were announced the remainder of the series is nixed. Don't cancel, just do it better next time around!

From a purely financial perspective (particularly in terms of their share price), WB has to plough ahead with the films currently on their DCEU slate (not to mention the fact that SS and WW are already practically complete).  However, I wonder if they will now scrap JL: Part Two and focus on more or less wrapping up the DCEU once production has completed on JL: Part One, and then look towards initiating a soft reboot (perhaps explained as a different 'Earth') that incorporates all the elements people like about the current franchise, including Affleck's Batman, and most of the associated Batman elements, and possibly Gadot's Wonder Woman and Suicide Squad, whilst 'modifying' those elements that do not seem to be as popular, the Superman-related elements and Snyder's overall tone, in particular.

I'm just speculating of course, but it's a suggestion of a scenario that might be able to please practically everyone including those who like MOS and BvS and want to see a satisfactory resolution to Snyder's franchise, and everyone else who would ideally like to see some significant changes to the current DCEU if not a whole-scale reboot.

If we're looking at it purely from a story standpoint (ignoring finances), everything is salvagable. The criticisms of the film are not pertaining to plot points or the actors themselves so I don't see why they can't salvage a great film the next time around.

Quote from: riddler on Mon, 11 Apr  2016, 13:54If we're looking at it purely from a story standpoint (ignoring finances), everything is salvagable. The criticisms of the film are not pertaining to plot points or the actors themselves so I don't see why they can't salvage a great film the next time around.

Then what do they pertain to?

Because I've seen a lot of criticism directed at the portrayal and casting of Lex, as well as confusion over the character's motivations and plans.

Surely the logical thing to do now would be to let Zack Snyder complete his trilogy with Justice League.  It makes perfect sense, allowing the series to build up film-by-film from Superman, to Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman, to finally the entire JLA team.

If it's possible I'd try to incorporate Superman into the film as a third act saviour who comes to the rest of the team's support, after literally rising from the dead, thus giving Cavill and his version of Superman a rousing, dignified send-off.

The Warner Bros can proceed with a 'soft' reboot of the franchise that ignores Snyder's separate trilogy.  Alternatively, they could do the smart thing and have multiple separate franchises running at the same time (i.e. Wonder Woman, Batman, Green Lantern, Suicide Squad etc) without feeling the need to tie them altogether in some potentially contrived shared universe.  The added bonus of such a strategy is that it would differentiate WB's comic-book movie slate from the MCU, as well as allowing filmmakers to do their own thing, and potentially fail, without feeling beholden to anyone else's vision, which is surely a strategy that critics, with their admiration for the 'auteur theory', could and should endorse.

Birthmoviesdeath.com is claiming the mysterious figure in the deleted 'Communion' scene is the main antagonist in Justice League: Part One. They're also reporting the identity of this character as Steppenwolf: http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2016/05/11/we-know-the-villain-of-justice-league

Steppenwolf was one of the two characters we speculated it might be in our site feature: 'Comic Influences on Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016)'.

QuoteMother Boxes also appear during a deleted scene involving Lex and a mysterious figure that appears before him aboard the wreckage of the Kryptonian scout ship. It's not entirely clear which character this apparition is meant to represent, but it's most likely a figure from Jack Kirby's Fourth World mythology. Two possible candidates include: 

• Yuga Khan, former ruler of Apokolips and father of Uxas (aka Darkseid)
• Steppenwolf, brother-in-law of Yuga Khan and uncle to Uxas/Darkseid

(https://www.batman-online.com/features/1460124568_new-god.jpg)

- See more at: http://www.batman-online.com/features/2016/4/9/comic-influences-on-batman-v-superman-dawn-of-justice-2016/4#sthash.6bHqWfj5.dpuf

Makes sense. I could see them defeating this guy, only for Darkseid himself to appear in JL2.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 12 May  2016, 00:56
Makes sense. I could see them defeating this guy, only for Darkseid himself to appear in JL2.

He should appear (accompanyed by his Omega beams) at the very end of Part 1. Maybe after reducing a key player to apparent soot like Dan Turpin in STAS.

Quote from: Catwoman on Thu, 12 May  2016, 03:11
He should appear (accompanyed by his Omega beams) at the very end of Part 1. Maybe after reducing a key player to apparent soot like Dan Turpin in STAS.

Yep. Keep the momentum going.

And based on what we've heard about JL - Batman seeking out Aquaman and others, this panel from Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman: Trinity gives you an idea how it could look.

(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nowisnottherhyme.net%2Fimages%2Freviews%2Fbatmansupermanwonderwomantrinity%2Fbatmansupermanwonderwomantrinity5.jpg&hash=bbe0be248d006c9dfc2120e5431b6b67009f2222)

I have to admit Batsy going "YAAA!" and Aquaman's "I haven't pòoped in a week" tough face made me giggle a little.

Jason Momoa's tough face suddenly appearing like that would be pretty badass though.

Quote from: Catwoman on Thu, 12 May  2016, 03:11

He should appear (accompanyed by his Omega beams) at the very end of Part 1. Maybe after reducing a key player to apparent soot like Dan Turpin in STAS.

I'm afraid this would only give some people the excuse to over-exaggerate and criticise the movie because the heroes didn't get to save him.

This is the thing that's becoming frustrating to me about BvS. I thought the movie definitely had its flaws and I don't think it's perfect by any means, but reading some of the complaints against the movie is getting overblown. You'd have to be extremely bloody stupid to believe Martha Kent was suggesting to Clark the human race can get f***ed, instead of comprehending that she was suggesting to do the right thing without feeling burdened by guilt. But sadly, this misunderstanding is becoming quite common. How dumb can one possibly get? The movie is not complicated to understand.

Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Thu, 12 May  2016, 11:23

Quote from: Catwoman on Thu, 12 May  2016, 03:11

He should appear (accompanyed by his Omega beams) at the very end of Part 1. Maybe after reducing a key player to apparent soot like Dan Turpin in STAS.

I'm afraid this would only give some people the excuse to over-exaggerate and criticise the movie because the heroes didn't get to save him.

Ignorant f***sticks are going to have that complaint regardless, same as the fools who bitch about Batman not saving the Ice Princess or Clark not saving Jonathan. Pick up a comic, morons (them, not you TLF), not everyone gets saved. If that happened there would be no peril whatsoever and these stories would be so boring.

It doesn't matter what movie we get, people have already convinced themselves it's gonna suck (either cause of the properties, the director, or any other number of stupid preconceptions) so you can't worry about what they complain about because they would have no matter what.

You're right, but it's incredibly annoying.

Another idiotic complaint I saw from that awful Superhero Hype forum (I really should stop lurking there, the majority of posters on that site are Rotten Tomatoes fans and like to perve on celebrity pics) was it's apparently "bad writing and bad editing" that the ending cuts to Lex locked up in prison, without seeing him getting arrested after Superman died to stop Doomsday. According to this "expert", Lex could've been arrested for anything other than setting Doomsday loose on the world. But more so, he argues that it's bad directing that we didn't see Lex's reaction upon getting caught for his crimes.

I'm not kidding, that's what this schmuck said. Well in that case, he might as well condemn TDK for not showing Joker's reaction to Batman framing himself for Two-Face's murders. Actually, the criticism against that ending is legitimate because we're left asking questions about what happened to him. After all, no way would the Joker sit by and let Batman ruin his plan to devastate Gotham by covering up Two-Face's crimes. But no no no, you can't dare criticise that movie because "Chris Nolan is a genius, and RT gave it a 94%, the critics say so".

God I can't stand these people.

P.S. I'm expressing my distaste towards people who have double standards and over-exaggerate their dislike for BvS. Not everyone else who simply didn't like the movie.

Firstly, what's wrong with Rotten Tomatoes?

Secondly, I visit SuperheroHype a lot.  It's a great source for comic-book movie and TV show news.  I have never encountered anyone who 'likes to perv over celebrity pics', whatever that means.

Thirdly, there is a pervading nastiness starting to emerge on this site, with various posters using profane and rude language to express their distaste towards anyone who expresses a different opinion to them.  Why can't we all accept that people have different views and tastes without getting hostile?

If this nastiness and abuse continues I hope Ral is reading, and cracks down on it.  >:(

Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Thu, 12 May  2016, 13:51
You're right, but it's incredibly annoying.

Another idiotic complaint I saw from that awful Superhero Hype forum (I really should stop lurking there, the majority of posters on that site are Rotten Tomatoes fans and like to perve on celebrity pics) was it's apparently "bad writing and bad editing" that the ending cuts to Lex locked up in prison, without seeing him getting arrested after Superman died to stop Doomsday. According to this "expert", Lex could've been arrested for anything other than setting Doomsday loose on the world. But more so, he argues that it's bad directing that we didn't see Lex's reaction upon getting caught for his crimes.

I'm not kidding, that's what this schmuck said. Well in that case, he might as well condemn TDK for not showing Joker's reaction to Batman framing himself for Two-Face's murders. Actually, the criticism against that ending is legitimate because we're left asking questions about what happened to him. After all, no way would the Joker sit by and let Batman ruin his plan to devastate Gotham by covering up Two-Face's crimes. But no no no, you can't dare criticise that movie because "Chris Nolan is a genius, and RT gave it a 94%, the critics say so".

God I can't stand these people.

P.S. I'm expressing my distaste towards people who have double standards and over-exaggerate their dislike for BvS. Not everyone else who simply didn't like the movie.

Idiots like that suck the life and fun out of enjoying this stuff. I second your comment that you shouldn't bother with it at all if it is that widespread. Ignoring one or two morons among an intelligent, fun conversation is easy but if moronic is all you get, yea. Lose that sh*t, bro.

Quote from: Catwoman on Thu, 12 May  2016, 15:18Idiots like that suck the life and fun out of enjoying this stuff. I second your comment that you shouldn't bother with it at all if it is that widespread. Ignoring one or two morons among an intelligent, fun conversation is easy but if moronic is all you get, yea. Lose that sh*t, bro.

Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Thu, 12 May  2016, 11:23I'm afraid this would only give some people the excuse to over-exaggerate and criticise the movie because the heroes didn't get to save him.

This is the thing that's becoming frustrating to me about BvS. I thought the movie definitely had its flaws and I don't think it's perfect by any means, but reading some of the complaints against the movie is getting overblown. You'd have to be extremely bloody stupid to believe Martha Kent was suggesting to Clark the human race can get f***ed, instead of comprehending that she was suggesting to do the right thing without feeling burdened by guilt. But sadly, this misunderstanding is becoming quite common. How dumb can one possibly get? The movie is not complicated to understand.

Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Thu, 12 May  2016, 13:51You're right, but it's incredibly annoying.

Another idiotic complaint I saw from that awful Superhero Hype forum (I really should stop lurking there, the majority of posters on that site are Rotten Tomatoes fans and like to perve on celebrity pics) was it's apparently "bad writing and bad editing" that the ending cuts to Lex locked up in prison, without seeing him getting arrested after Superman died to stop Doomsday. According to this "expert", Lex could've been arrested for anything other than setting Doomsday loose on the world. But more so, he argues that it's bad directing that we didn't see Lex's reaction upon getting caught for his crimes.

I'm not kidding, that's what this schmuck said. Well in that case, he might as well condemn TDK for not showing Joker's reaction to Batman framing himself for Two-Face's murders. Actually, the criticism against that ending is legitimate because we're left asking questions about what happened to him. After all, no way would the Joker sit by and let Batman ruin his plan to devastate Gotham by covering up Two-Face's crimes. But no no no, you can't dare criticise that movie because "Chris Nolan is a genius, and RT gave it a 94%, the critics say so".

I can say very much that while that's a lame criticism, there's a difference between seeing someone elses reaction to someone doing something and someone's reaction to something happening to them. The two situations aren't the same.

QuoteP.S. I'm expressing my distaste towards people who have double standards and over-exaggerate their dislike for BvS. Not everyone else who simply didn't like the movie.

You've done the same. None of this though, particularly the insults, is justified over a movie. Have a very great both of you!

God bless you both! God bless everyone!

Rumours abound that Colin Farrell's landed an unspecified role:
http://movieweb.com/justice-league-movie-cast-colin-farrell-michiel-huisman/

I wonder if Batfleck will throw him out of a church window.

Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Thu, 12 May  2016, 13:51Another idiotic complaint I saw from that awful Superhero Hype forum (I really should stop lurking there, the majority of posters on that site are Rotten Tomatoes fans and like to perve on celebrity pics) was it's apparently "bad writing and bad editing" that the ending cuts to Lex locked up in prison, without seeing him getting arrested after Superman died to stop Doomsday. According to this "expert", Lex could've been arrested for anything other than setting Doomsday loose on the world. But more so, he argues that it's bad directing that we didn't see Lex's reaction upon getting caught for his crimes.

Golly, that SHH guy was really scraping the barrel for criticisms. There's kidnapping (Lois and Martha), conspiracy to commit kidnapping, misusing government facilities (the scout ship), reckless endangerment (Doomsday tore a lot of stuff up), miscellaneous and sundry laws related to genetic experimentation, miscellaneous and sundry anti-terrorism laws (and Lois has evidence tying Lex to the senate bombing), so on and so forth. It's a pretty target-rich environment. Any decent police department could dig up plenty of evidence for that stuff... but when you figure Lex has the firepower of the entire United States federal government raging against him, he doesn't stand a chance.

Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Thu, 12 May  2016, 13:51P.S. I'm expressing my distaste towards people who have double standards and over-exaggerate their dislike for BvS. Not everyone else who simply didn't like the movie.

Welcome to my world, pal! I've been putting up with double-standards regarding Superman: The Movie for ages now.

If ANY other version of Superman interrupted his big public debut with a jive-talking pimp complimenting him on his clothes, the people who made it would have to go into the Witness Protection Program. But if you have Reeve on the screen and the Williams score blasting loud enough, these types will forgive anything.

Anything.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue,  5 Jul  2016, 20:16
Welcome to my world, pal! I've been putting up with double-standards regarding Superman: The Movie for ages now.

I feel a similar way with Nolan. Put is this way: if other directors had Batman framing himself to protect a murderer's reputation, or Two-Face going on a killing spree by listening to the guy who ruined his life, or Bruce burning down an entire temple right after he claimed he wouldn't be an executioner, they would've had their balls in a vice. Could you imagine if Zack Snyder did that? The internet would have a meltdown. Would Nolan have faced ridicule if he had a scene of Batman realising he went too far when he was about execute Superman? I think he'd be praised for it.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue,  5 Jul  2016, 20:16
If ANY other version of Superman interrupted his big public debut with a jive-talking pimp complimenting him on his clothes, the people who made it would have to go into the Witness Protection Program. But if you have Reeve on the screen and the Williams score blasting loud enough, these types will forgive anything.
Anything.

I always thought the pimp was serious when he meant "now that's a bad outfit!". As in "that suit sucks"!

Now that you mention it, I hadn't given much thought to that scene until Perry White saying "This isn't 1938 any more!". If you remember, it was during the scene where Clark was arguing about principles over his desire to cover the Batman controversy instead of football. Apparently, some people took it as Snyder saying "Superman sucks", as the rest of the film had people doubting and hating him. If Snyder really thought that, he wouldn't have Superman save the day by sacrificing himself and Metropolis paying tribute in the end, and Batman and Wonder Woman looking to start the Justice League to honour his memory.

Sorry to say, as much as I like Christopher Reeve's Superman, I thought the BvS plot line here is a lot better than Clark suddenly relinquishing his powers in Superman II because he wanted be with Lois. Yes, he redeemed himself in the end, but I still have a hard time he would make such an out of character decision in the first place.

Anyway, here are new casting news:

http://variety.com/2016/film/news/justice-league-cast-julian-lewis-jones-1201808847/

I wish you guys would see the UC, because there's goodness to discuss. Superman's side of things is much improved. Clark goes over to Gotham twice to pursue the Batman story. You see him in action asking questions. Perry is frustrated because Clark doesn't cover any of his assigned stories. That's all that's about. In the UC you see Perry assigning Clark the football story, which he doesn't do. Then he's invited to the library gala, strongly implied by Lex, which makes the "I love bringing people together line" even better, because Bruce was invited as well. Clark doesn't write the library story either. He believes in truth and justice, and would rather write about Batman.

Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Wed,  6 Jul  2016, 11:36I feel a similar way with Nolan. Put is this way: if other directors had Batman framing himself to protect a murderer's reputation, or Two-Face going on a killing spree by listening to the guy who ruined his life, or Bruce burning down an entire temple right after he claimed he wouldn't be an executioner, they would've had their balls in a vice. Could you imagine if Zack Snyder did that? The internet would have a meltdown. Would Nolan have faced ridicule if he had a scene of Batman realising he went too far when he was about execute Superman? I think he'd be praised for it.

Batman already knew he was going to execute Superman. The "why" he was going to do it and the "why" he realized he shouldn't I think are the problems some people have. I can't imagine anyone would have a problem with Batman accidentally causing deaths or Two-Face, a character who is a villain by comic lore, being psychologically manipulated into being a villain. Nor do I think they'd take a very strong issue with Batman taking the fall for crimes he didn't commit. There are many people that like both Nolan and Burton and don't take an issue with Burton's Batman's destruction of axis chemicals with, seemingly, people still in there. I'll use my perception as an example. Batman there is an early new vengeful Batman. He doesn't have a no kill rule and he never did. This Batman in BvS is what certain fans were expecting to be definitive and have it all. But, based on outside content, he had a no kill rule, abandoned it with extreme prejudice and then will pretend it matters again after he's proven he doesn't care about it at all like him giving a false speech about how men are still good implies. But your claims aren't exactly justified, considering your tendency to use not true information to try and back up your dislike of the Nolan movies.

QuoteNow that you mention it, I hadn't given much thought to that scene until Perry White saying "This isn't 1938 any more!". If you remember, it was during the scene where Clark was arguing about principles over his desire to cover the Batman controversy instead of football. Apparently, some people took it as Snyder saying "Superman sucks", as the rest of the film had people doubting and hating him. If Snyder really thought that, he wouldn't have Superman save the day by sacrificing himself and Metropolis paying tribute in the end, and Batman and Wonder Woman looking to start the Justice League to honour his memory.

That's actually a pretty great way to show your hate for the Superman character while pretending you didn't. Just like the Arrow writers are going to pretend they don't hate Black Canary by giving her a statue it seems and had Oliver make big speeches about how important she was to him when he treated her like garbage, had her fridged for the manpain of 3 male characters by killing her with Oliver's arrow while she was helpless to fight back and had her dying words be that of a moony eyed lovestruck teen about how Oliver would never love her and he should go be with Felicity. They can say and pretend all they want that it was because they didn't have any more story for her and all that nonsense, but we all know the Arrow writers hate Dinah Laurel Lance/Black Canary. They've shown that. Same here. They pointlessly killed his character off and cut him out of the organization of the JL. They had his character act childishly when Batman wouldn't listen to him about his mom being kidnapped and made him waste time by pointlessly fighting with Batman and presented the idea that this version of him could become evil. Nothing says dislike of a character like that.

Dagenspear, everybody is entitled to their own viewpoint. But if Snyder hates Superman, he's got a funny way of showing it. WB, I could believe they dislike Superman. Or, less seriously, they at least don't get Superman. But I would believe that Snyder and all or most of the casts and crews behind MOS and BVS like Superman.

As to Laurel, I don't really keep up with online scuttlebutt for Arrow but what you say has a ring of truth to it. Which is too bad because I liked her, especially in that Black Canary outfit, mmm...

Snyder is a professional, I can't see any director taking on a title character they hate.

If we want to talk about horrendous editing and directing, how the dark knight scene in which the Joker and his goons attack the Wayne penthouse? The scene cuts away after Batman saves Rachel meanwhile the Joker and the goons are in the penthouse with Alfred there and Harvey Dent locked up. Why does Nolan rarely get called out for that?

It's already been well pointed out in this forum how Nolan and Sam Raimi basically did the same thing with critical villains in the dark knight/spidey 3; brought in the alter ego for most of the film, had them turn into the super villain late in the film for one confrontation and then get killed off. Yet Raimi got criticized while Nolan got praised.

Quote from: riddler on Wed,  6 Jul  2016, 19:52
Snyder is a professional, I can't see any director taking on a title character they hate.

If we want to talk about horrendous editing and directing, how the dark knight scene in which the Joker and his goons attack the Wayne penthouse? The scene cuts away after Batman saves Rachel meanwhile the Joker and the goons are in the penthouse with Alfred there and Harvey Dent locked up. Why does Nolan rarely get called out for that?

I don't know if I'd call that a directing/editing problem. More like a writing one. Which Nolan has a hand in too. It's an problem no doubt. Not that I think a scene of Batman going after the Joker and not catching him would be necessary, but it does make a disconnect.

QuoteIt's already been well pointed out in this forum how Nolan and Sam Raimi basically did the same thing with critical villains in the dark knight/spidey 3; brought in the alter ego for most of the film, had them turn into the super villain late in the film for one confrontation and then get killed off. Yet Raimi got criticized while Nolan got praised.

I think it probably has to do with expectations. People have a thing for Venom, where his character is overvalued. But Raimi used his character as a way to fulfill the theme and while I would like to see the character explored more in another version more like the comics, I'm fine with it. Same with TF. Though I've noticed more of a liking for SM 3 recently.

Quote from: riddler on Wed,  6 Jul  2016, 19:52It's already been well pointed out in this forum how Nolan and Sam Raimi basically did the same thing with critical villains in the dark knight/spidey 3; brought in the alter ego for most of the film, had them turn into the super villain late in the film for one confrontation and then get killed off. Yet Raimi got criticized while Nolan got praised.

To be fair, Raimi did it to two villains: Venom and Harry as the Green Goblin. :D

Guys, I may write an Ultimate Edition BvS review, to coincide with the home video release. It deserves all the praise it gets. I'll probably call the piece 'Snyder's true vision' or something similar. Explaining the new scenes and what they add to the film.

Quote from: riddler on Wed,  6 Jul  2016, 19:52
Snyder is a professional, I can't see any director taking on a title character they hate.

If we want to talk about horrendous editing and directing, how the dark knight scene in which the Joker and his goons attack the Wayne penthouse? The scene cuts away after Batman saves Rachel meanwhile the Joker and the goons are in the penthouse with Alfred there and Harvey Dent locked up. Why does Nolan rarely get called out for that?

The script had Joker making his escape. My guess is there was a scene filmed but it was cut. Why you may ask? I bet they didn't know how to end the scene. On one hand, the Joker murdering all the penthouse guests would've been way too dark and probably ruin the PG-13 rating. But on the other hand, it might've been uncharacteristic of the psychotic Joker to make a run for it without taking lives for fun. So they might have decided to take the easy way out and cut it to the next scene.

Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Thu,  7 Jul  2016, 13:39

Quote from: riddler on Wed,  6 Jul  2016, 19:52
Snyder is a professional, I can't see any director taking on a title character they hate.

If we want to talk about horrendous editing and directing, how the dark knight scene in which the Joker and his goons attack the Wayne penthouse? The scene cuts away after Batman saves Rachel meanwhile the Joker and the goons are in the penthouse with Alfred there and Harvey Dent locked up. Why does Nolan rarely get called out for that?

The script had Joker making his escape. My guess is there was a scene filmed but it was cut. Why you may ask? I bet they didn't know how to end the scene. On one hand, the Joker murdering all the penthouse guests would've been way too dark and probably ruin the PG-13 rating. But on the other hand, it might've been uncharacteristic of the psychotic Joker to make a run for it without taking lives for fun. So they might have decided to take the easy way out and cut it to the next scene.

It's still bad film making as the plot of the scene clearly wasn't over. If Burton had a scene like that, Nolanites would have been all over it.

In my mind, Joker leaves the way he came in, via the elevator. And rushes to a waiting getaway car. I don't think he had any reason to linger at the party any longer.

Quote from: riddler on Thu,  7 Jul  2016, 14:10It's still bad film making as the plot of the scene clearly wasn't over. If Burton had a scene like that, Nolanites would have been all over it.

I don't think they'd care either way. Why would they?

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu,  7 Jul  2016, 12:01
Guys, I may write an Ultimate Edition BvS review, to coincide with the home video release. It deserves all the praise it gets. I'll probably call the piece 'Snyder's true vision' or something similar. Explaining the new scenes and what they add to the film.

(https://cdn.meme.am/instances/400x400/68076815.jpg)

That may have to be put on hold. I forgot about my Leto Joker article, which I'll start this week based on the details released. The main meat will obviously be added after actually seeing the film.

Well, holy sh*t, Zach Snyder just tweeted out the trailer to JL, and it looks AMAZING. I will say, the tone looks much lighter, but goddamn, does it look good. Love it!

https://twitter.com/ZackSnyder/status/756934912532373505

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gglkYMGRYlE

And here's the new WW trailer. Also looks great:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lGoQhFb4NM

Oh hell yes, those were EPIC.

The Batsuit looks leaner this time with a slimmer cowl. Take note, Nolan, THIS is how you make Batman look leaner without turning him into a bobblehead.

I like all the costumes but wish they went into a better direction with Flash. I think the metallic look from Injustice is unnecessary along with incorporating the black. Also, Miller's Flash just seems more like Wally than Barry to me. Maybe I'm just biased towards the CW Flash (though to be fair, Miller's Barry is a way better Wally in personality than that show's Wally so far).

Wish there was some Superman footage with this too.

Quote from: BatmAngelus on Sat, 23 Jul  2016, 21:54
I like all the costumes but wish they went into a better direction with Flash. I think the metallic look from Injustice is unnecessary along with incorporating the black. Also, Miller's Flash just seems more like Wally than Barry to me. Maybe I'm just biased towards the CW Flash (though to be fair, Miller's Barry is a way better Wally in personality than that show's Wally so far).

The Flash is probably the JL character I'm most interested in, what with this being his first cinematic outing. But I share your concerns. He definitely comes across as more Wally West than Barry Allen in this footage. The scene between him and Bruce reminds me of Tony Stark's first scene with Peter Parker in Civil War. If they're going to make him the younger comic relief member of the JLA, why not just use Wally West? They could make Barry's absence an unanswered mystery, similar to Robin's fate in BvS. That would leave the door open for Barry to appear in a later film.

Of course it's too early to judge at this stage, but I do hope they get across the more mature, scientific, analytical side of Barry's character. As far as his appearance goes, I wish he was blonde. But other than that, I think he looks all right. The Injustice influence is very apparent.

Quote from: BatmAngelus on Sat, 23 Jul  2016, 21:54Wish there was some Superman footage with this too.

No footage, but there's this:

So much for the long hair. I was looking forward to that. Sigh.

Liked both trailers. It does feel like the DC universe is well underway now. Lots to discuss and I'm not sure where to start.

Dug the trailer. I've seen some news outlets embracing the footage for its lighter tone. I got to say I'm surprised, I thought they'd call it a Marvel ripoff. I think Henry Cavill will benefit from the change of tone. If you've seen him interviews, he's quite an amusing fella, albeit smug.

It makes sense for Bruce to be this way. We're seeing this businessman who has to make deals. That means convincing people with charm and a solid argument. I am sure the film will have its moments of darkness, and the visuals still look solid.

People have said the Justice League of America movie has been altered on some level because of the criticisms about BVS. The jokes and lightness of the trailer tend to reinforce that.

There's a bit of that, I agree, but still maintain this was more or less the same end point.

What did you think of the preview?

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sun, 24 Jul  2016, 05:47There's a bit of that, I agree, but still maintain this was more or less the same end point.

What did you think of the preview?

I enjoyed it but I'm not so vain as to think it'll change the haters' minds. "WB bad, Marvel good". That's about the level of sophistication they deal in and it's kind of hopeless to think they'll come around.

What I want is more Batfleck. Suicide Squad will give a tiny bit but obviously there will be a ton in Justice League. Fine by me.

The only real reservation I have is somebody playing the "Aquaman talks to fish" card. I mean, guys, that wasn't clever anymore 20 years ago. "Durrrrr, look how sophisticated I am, I make fun of Aquaman because I'm so clever!" That may not be the message they wanted to send. But it is the message they're sending. And it's retarded!

How'd you like it, cuz?

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 24 Jul  2016, 06:52
I enjoyed it but I'm not so vain as to think it'll change the haters' minds. "WB bad, Marvel good". That's about the level of sophistication they deal in and it's kind of hopeless to think they'll come around.

I wouldn't be surprised if some will cry out "Oh look, they're copying Marvel's comedy"...even though that's what others were asking for. As much as I don't care for siding movie studios over the other, I feel the DCEU is in a no-win situation here. If they make a team-up movie, good or bad, they'll be accused of copying Marvel. If they make a dark, serious movie, they'll face backlash over it by people who otherwise never had a problem with the dark tone in the Christopher Nolan ones.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 24 Jul  2016, 06:52
What I want is more Batfleck. Suicide Squad will give a tiny bit but obviously there will be a ton in Justice League. Fine by me.

My only one complaint from the new footage is Batfleck looks much slender here than he was in BvS and SS. I understand that it's hard for him to maintain that bulky shape at his age, but it made him an imposing figure. I guess you can rationalise that building his body into such a big stature was indicative to his messed up state of mind in the events leading to and during BvS.

Solid trailer, though I'm beginning to get a bit more concerned about the amount of comedy DC/WB wants to incorporate now in light of the reaction to BvS. From a business standpoint, I get it. You go with what works. Marvel's formula clearly appears to be what is deemed less controversial and more acceptable by crying plebians "Waah Batman kills! OMG! I think I'ma gunna faint!" But from a artistic standpoint, I really would have preferred for DC/WB films to remain steadfast in their tone, or at the very least, not degrade it to the point where we're wondering who's going to get the better one liner. I like the different flavors. Variety is good! ect

Maybe much of the comedic aspects were purposely highlighted in the trailer to dispel all the crying, and the film itself will be, atleast in tone, more akin to MOS/BvS? I'd like to think that, but yeah .. not getting my idealistic hopes up on that one.

Quote from: The Joker on Sun, 24 Jul  2016, 08:45
Solid trailer, though I'm beginning to get a bit more concerned about the amount of comedy DC/WB wants to incorporate now in light of the reaction to BvS. From a business standpoint, I get it. You go with what works. Marvel's formula clearly appears to be what is deemed less controversial and more acceptable by crying plebians "Waah Batman kills! OMG! I think I'ma gunna faint!"

As I said in the WW thread, you wait till people make a big deal over Diana Prince killing people (from what I can tell in that trailer), like they did to Superman and Batman. Seriously, it's not only annoying that people won't apply the same complaints when previous versions of Superman and Batman killed, I'm beginning to wonder why are the Avengers allowed to kill without scrutiny.

The fuss over Batfleck's body count was pathetic. The only WB screen version who hasn't killed was George Clooney, people. Get a grip.  ::)

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 24 Jul  2016, 06:52

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sun, 24 Jul  2016, 05:47There's a bit of that, I agree, but still maintain this was more or less the same end point.

What did you think of the preview?

I enjoyed it but I'm not so vain as to think it'll change the haters' minds. "WB bad, Marvel good". That's about the level of sophistication they deal in and it's kind of hopeless to think they'll come around.

What I want is more Batfleck. Suicide Squad will give a tiny bit but obviously there will be a ton in Justice League. Fine by me.

The only real reservation I have is somebody playing the "Aquaman talks to fish" card. I mean, guys, that wasn't clever anymore 20 years ago. "Durrrrr, look how sophisticated I am, I make fun of Aquaman because I'm so clever!" That may not be the message they wanted to send. But it is the message they're sending. And it's retarded!

How'd you like it, cuz?

I liked it, and more so on the second watch through. I dig Affleck's Bruce too, so getting more of him, and in spades, is excellent. As for the "I hear you talk to fish" line at the end, Aquaman isn't being singled out.

Affleckman is an equal opportunity mocker. Every single time he meets a Justice League member it's a little rocky. Superman? We know the deal here. They clashed and Bruce nearly had him killed. Wonder Woman? Bruce ambushes her at a party, says he won't fall for her good looks, and effectively says he won't let her get away with anything. Flash? Bruce breaks into his lab, sits in the dark and initially gets criticism for doing so.

So Bruce clashing with Aquaman works for me. He doesn't take a backward step to anyone, even a gigantic God of the ocean who pinned him against a wall within seconds. I'm now eager to see how he initially deals with Cyborg.

I liked the "talk to fish" line.  :D

Somebody say fish? I haven't been fed all.....oh. Oops.

Definitely seems lighter. Would it be too cheezy to proclaim it's always darkest before the dawn?

It's a bit like the recruitment montage from X-Men: First Class.

Quote from: riddler on Mon, 25 Jul  2016, 15:38
Definitely seems lighter. Would it be too cheezy to proclaim it's always darkest before the dawn?

No but it'd be a bit inaccurate since we already had the dawn and it was pretty damn dark...

Quote from: Catwoman on Tue, 26 Jul  2016, 10:54

Quote from: riddler on Mon, 25 Jul  2016, 15:38
Definitely seems lighter. Would it be too cheezy to proclaim it's always darkest before the dawn?

No but it'd be a bit inaccurate since we already had the dawn and it was pretty damn dark...

So not inaccurate at all then?

Quote from: riddler on Tue, 26 Jul  2016, 13:44

Quote from: Catwoman on Tue, 26 Jul  2016, 10:54

Quote from: riddler on Mon, 25 Jul  2016, 15:38
Definitely seems lighter. Would it be too cheezy to proclaim it's always darkest before the dawn?

No but it'd be a bit inaccurate since we already had the dawn and it was pretty damn dark...

So not inaccurate at all then?

Yes, cause the dawn was darker than what came before lol.

Dawn of Justice does not mean the film is sunshine and rainbows. It refers to the first glimmers of the Justice League. Batman and Superman, well....Batman, lays down his guns and stops being so reckless.

This sure is dark.

(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi2.wp.com%2Fbatman-news.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F07%2FJustice-League-HD.jpg&hash=ad27da6c339891d42225d74a519025395f734bb5)

So what do you guys think of The Flash suit? It could be better, but I don't hate it. It's a bit busy, but I think it works for someone like The Flash.

Quote from: Travesty on Wed, 27 Jul  2016, 17:40So what do you guys think of The Flash suit? It could be better, but I don't hate it. It's a bit busy, but I think it works for someone like The Flash.

Apparently Barry patched it together himself. Supposedly Batman will make a better one for him later on.

I don't really care, tbh. It looks okay to me. If Barry keeps it, fine by me.

Quote from: Travesty on Wed, 27 Jul  2016, 17:40
So what do you guys think of The Flash suit? It could be better, but I don't hate it. It's a bit busy, but I think it works for someone like The Flash.

After looking over some higher quality images, I can't say I'm enamoured. The other Justice League costumes, while bulky and armoured, still retain an organic anatomical design. In contrast, the Flash's looks far too busy and mechanical. It's particularly obvious when you see all the rivets in the close-up shots.


If it's only a prototype he wears early in the film - perhaps because his civilian clothes disintegrate under super speed - then fine. But I'm hoping his final costume will look more streamlined. As far as comparing it to earlier Flash costumes, I'd say Shipp and Gustin's are still the ones to beat: Shipp's is the best classic pre-Flashpoint suit, while Gustin's is the best representation of the modern 'New 52' design.


It's starting to look as if Bruce will be the Tony Stark figure to Flash's Spider-Man. The scene where he recruits him looks very similar to Peter Parker's first scene in Civil War, and if the rumours are true about Bruce supplying him with his final costume then that's another parallel.

I prefer the TV Flash suit but the JLA one isn't terrible. It'll be odd seeing two versions of the character.