Seems this terrific 60's pop art retro series of West and Ward madness is set to end this December.
And I am quite furious about it >:( lol
It has had a good run. Much longer than I personally expected it would get (almost two full years). Still I swear I haven't been buying a single other Batman comic for all that time span. It's been a breath of exciting fresh air that made comics fun again. A much needed resurrection from the sea of endless Frank Miller inspired Bat Books. I really don't see why the single best and most creative Batman comic on shelves has to be thrown away like a used condom at the expense of some of those blander books. I think we know comic publishers are often pathetic fools but this turn of events is truly the most upsetting by far in some time. Not exactly a great move for the shows upcoming 50th anniversary either.
I haven't read any of the 66 comics yet, but that's disappointing to hear. Oh well, at least we have Frank Miller's Batman likely beating the crap out of Superman in DKIII to look forward to. ::)
With that animated movie coming next year (or was that another one of Ral's freaking April Fools jokes?) maybe we haven't seen the last of it. Maybe there will be something new yet old launched in January? Just a thought?
DC Digital First. Where great concepts go to die. But not before teasing fans with their awesomeness.
DC Digital First. Because DC needs a dumping ground for stuff it has no faith in.
DC Digital First. Everything DC doesn't have the balls to print.
DC Digital First. Because movies and TV shows are all DC thinks most "comic fans" really care about anyway.
DC Digital First. If at first you don't succeed, just cancel it.
DC Digital First. Hey, somebody's rookie cousin was promised his own book to pencil.
DC Digital First. Because DC needs to be sure the trade paperbacks will sell.
DC Digital First. Less overhead for DC, more profit for DC and more heartache for the fans.
DC Digital First. The cheapest market research money can buy.
DC Digital First. Because DC just wants another Batman title to suck dry.
DC Digital First can piss off as far as I'm concerned.
Seriously though, nobody has said so (that I know about) but is there any doubt this is being done as part of DC's branding?
Batman v Superman isn't all that far away. This is the kind of decision you make when you want to have "synergy". WB is prepping for BvS's release. It looks to be a very dark, very driven, very vengeful, very Frank Miller Batman.
A comic book starring Adam West would tend to conflict with that.
I might be wrong but this looks like corporate politics. It just doesn't pass the sniff test.
I enjoyed the B66 comic. It more or less captured the spirit of the TV show, even though the larger scale plots wouldn't have ever been filmed due to budget constraints. But that's a moot point. 49 years after cameras stopped rolling, that's all it's about now - capturing the spirit. The writers were working within a different medium and played up to that.
Is the comic being shelved to make way for the dark and gritty tone of BvS? Probably. But to be completely honest, I'm not that upset it's being cancelled. It had a good run and I feel like my B66 appetite has been sated. I've watched the Blu-ray episodes over and over, and feel like the comic gave all I wanted from it.
I liked that they unearthed this series right around the time it turned 50 with the special edition releases, comics, and it being a huge part of the last lego batman 3 with Adam West voicing his character. That being said DC does need to be careful about how much they parade this within the mythology. I know most of us are open minded enough to appreciate all interpretations of the character but the interpretation of the character in the 60's is not widely the best remembered. That isn't to say that it doesn't have it's place because it certainly does, if I were introducing a child to Batman I would start with the Adam West series. But we have to realize that there's a reason why the only attempt to make Batman campy again failed miserably 20 years ago. Batman and Superman are supposed to be polar opposites and yet the argument could be made that Adam West was playing Clark Kent more than Bruce Wayne and such is a legitimate complaint levied by Superman towards this series; Turning Batman and Gotham City into Superman and Metropolis may have stolen thunder rightfully belonging to the real Superman character.
With it being on two nights a week for most of its run, the 3 seasons got us over 100 episodes, a movie, a follow up cartoon, and a modern comic in addition to heavily influencing the comics at the time and likely George Clooney's interpretation. It certainly has it's place in the character's mythology but be careful what you wish for when it comes to more from anything Batman which came from the 60's.
Quote from: riddler on Mon, 8 May 2017, 21:49
I liked that they unearthed this series right around the time it turned 50 with the special edition releases, comics, and it being a huge part of the last lego batman 3 with Adam West voicing his character.
Definitely. It would've been a true shame if the series wasn't released while Adam West and Burt Ward were alive.
Quote from: riddler on Mon, 8 May 2017, 21:49
That being said DC does need to be careful about how much they parade this within the mythology. I know most of us are open minded enough to appreciate all interpretations of the character but the interpretation of the character in the 60's is not widely the best remembered.
There's no doubt the show still has a stigma surrounding it, but I don't think it's as negative as you think. I've seen a fair share of praise for it. I think Adam West's Batman brings a sense of joy to the Batman community these days. It's a friendly form of escapism.
Quote from: riddler on Mon, 8 May 2017, 21:49
But we have to realize that there's a reason why the only attempt to make Batman campy again failed miserably 20 years ago.
The 66 show was lightning in a bottle. It's very hard to replicate a moment in time and the Clooney film is just one example. Repeating the general formula doesn't make something an automatic hit. I think The Brave and the Bold animated show managed to present the lighter interpretation of Batman perfectly. There's an audience for this type of Batman. It just has to click with the audience. For various reasons, Clooney's Batman didn't do that. In terms of legacy wars, I think the 66 show is mostly remembered with affection these days and Clooney is not. It seems people laugh along
with Adam West and people laugh
at George Clooney.
Quote from: riddler on Mon, 8 May 2017, 21:49
Batman and Superman are supposed to be polar opposites and yet the argument could be made that Adam West was playing Clark Kent more than Bruce Wayne and such is a legitimate complaint levied by Superman towards this series; Turning Batman and Gotham City into Superman and Metropolis may have stolen thunder rightfully belonging to the real Superman character.
That's a really interesting comment and I see where you are coming from. From my point of view, it makes
more sense for the City which created Batman to be dark and seedy. But ultimately, changing that tone doesn't really alter that much in terms of Batman himself. West's Batman still had all the trapping of comic Batman - it's just that he lived in in brighter world. West's Bruce was an investigator but he wasn't a reporter. The fact his Batman was more scientific tips the scales in his favor in terms of being more like Batman and less like Clark Kent. He was a well known billionaire living in a mansion attending public events. He had the bat cave, all his vehicles, gadgets, Alfred and Robin. We have to suspend our disbelief in terms of his costume inspiring dread, but nonetheless, there are moments where Batman holds up his cape and creates a silhouette to inspire fear.
QuoteIt seems people laugh along with Adam West and people laugh at George Clooney.
For Clooney, Batman is an early misstep in a successful and varied career. For West, Batman
is his career. This is unfortunate, he deserved better luck as an actor, but this is how it is.
Quote from: riddler on Mon, 8 May 2017, 21:49But we have to realize that there's a reason why the only attempt to make Batman campy again failed miserably 20 years ago.
I'm not sure what "campy" means in this context but Batman Forever was quite successful. B&R was derided as star-studded toy commercial and money-grab. While the core Batman fan audience groused about certain issues related specifically to the movie, wide audiences were turned off by issues surrounding the movie.
Lego Batman handily demonstrates that a dark, gritty Batman isn't the only game in town as far as wide audiences are concerned.
Quote from: riddler on Mon, 8 May 2017, 21:49Batman and Superman are supposed to be polar opposites
Says who? I believe Batman and Superman should be different from each other in many cases. But this idea that they must be as different as night and day to one another isn't an absolute.
One of my favorite episodes of the Bold & the Brave is the Superman episode. And while there are certainly differences between Superman and Batman in that episode, they're not totally different from one another.
Batman and Superman share common values. Superman doesn't have exclusivity on caring for the little guy. Batman doesn't have exclusivity on being aggressive to his enemies. There's crossover between the two because they're both crime fighters on the same team. But generally speaking, this exchange in Superman #20 captures the characters rather succinctly:
Batman: Out in the world, the darkness is real and growing.
Superman: Then we need to shine brighter.
Pretty much.
I suppose if someone wanted to really analyze the differences between the two characters, to me the biggest one is success. The day will come when Superman's mission is accomplished. The day will never come when Batman succeeds though.
Superman's entire mission statement fits on a bumper sticker. "Never-ending battle for truth, justice and the American Way". He doesn't have a specific outcome in mind. He simply wants to make the world a better place. Depending on your standards, he achieved his mission the first time he saved someone's life. One life saved will, in theory, bring us one step closer to a cure for cancer. One step closer to space colonization. One step closer to world peace. Etc. Everything Superman achieves after saving that first life is cream cheese.
Batman's mission is harder to quantify and even harder to achieve. To whatever degree he has a mission statement, it's something like "I made a promise on the grave of my parents that I would rid this city of the evil that took their lives." That's a defined goal. Batman will either attain that goal or else he will not attain that goal. There is no middle ground and there is no degree of victory. If he's not completely successful in his mission then by his own definition he's a complete failure.
All I can say is "Yeah, good luck with that."
Batman's thinking is either too small or too big. It's a matter of perspective, I suppose. But Superman's agenda is a never-ending battle for truth, justice and the American way. Sooner or later, that will be achieved. It doesn't have to happen in Superman's lifetime. It doesn't have to be Superman who achieves it. And really, it's a set of ideals anyway. It's not a defined goal. It's an aspiration.
The never-ending battle for truth, justice and the American way can only "end" (if there even is an end) in success. Batman's mission is doomed to failure because he's not addressing the root cause (eg, human nature) while Superman IS.
Batman will fail in his mission. Superman's mission isn't even necessarily his own, or at least not exclusively so and that's why it will inevitably succeed.
"They will race behind you. They will stumble. They will fall. But in time, they will join you in the sun. In time, you will help them accomplish wonders."
There's a moment in Batman Rebirth's I AM SUICIDE arc which deals with these themes. Bruce has an internal monologue in which he admits the concept of a grown man dressing up every night to fight crime *is* laughable. He admits punching criminals in the face every night isn't really going to do anything in the long term. Bruce reasons that Batman is the vow of a young boy who chose to die. The comic says that Bruce couldn't bring himself to commit suicide, so he became Batman. Instead of mourning his parents properly he made that highly ambitious vow. And because he didn't want to betray their memory, he still adheres to that vow. Batman is someone who can't let go of the past. He refuses to.
Regarding the comparisons between West and Clooney, I think there's one massive difference that needs to be emphasised: West's Batman didn't realise he was funny.
Obviously the actor Adam West did, but the character he was playing saw himself as a deadly serious crime fighter. He and Robin had no idea how absurd they were. That's what made them so hilarious. By contrast, Clooney's Batman was constantly winking to the audience and actually trying to be funny. And he failed miserably.
Take for example his line about Batgirl's name not being awfully PC. It's delivered in a very glib, self-aware manner. If West's Batman had said something like that, it would have been delivered in an earnest and heartfelt tone. As if he were genuinely afraid the name Batgirl might offend someone.
So I don't acknowledge the Schumacher Batman as the spiritual successor to the sixties TV series. If anything, I think Batman: The Brave and the Bold was a far more suitable heir to West's legacy.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Fri, 12 May 2017, 20:47
Take for example his line about Batgirl's name not being awfully PC. It's delivered in a very glib, self-aware manner. If West's Batman had said something like that, it would have been delivered in an earnest and heartfelt tone. As if he were genuinely afraid the name Batgirl might offend someone.
Good comparison.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Fri, 12 May 2017, 20:47
So I don't acknowledge the Schumacher Batman as the spiritual successor to the sixties TV series. If anything, I think Batman: The Brave and the Bold was a far more suitable heir to West's legacy.
Definitely agree. The Brave and the Bold's Batman is serious about his work and has the same wisdom as Adam West's version.