Batman-Online.com

If you're a fan of Burton's Bat, do yourself a favor and look up Dave Lea:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Dave-Lea/1495820833966187?fref=ts
Be sure to give his page a 'like', there's a lot more rarities left to be shared.

Basically, Lea was Keaton's most common stunt double for the Burton films, performing most of the fight scenes. It's almost impossible to tell them apart in costume due to similar facial features. Anyways, Dave's still in great shape as a stunt instructor, and now, he's created his own social media page. He's great about answering fans' questions and sharing stories and pictures from the legacy he was a part of.

Here's one that I certainly didn't know:

QuoteBat 2. Ok clowns, I have 25 moves and then the unexpected moves. 4 Camera's. We are going to shoot the MASTER SHOT (the whole fight) You guys are going to be coming at me from everywhere. If I am not where I should be in the Choreography, or you are not, don't matter, Just hit me or I hit you. Don't stop. If any one gets whacked, we give hugs and cheers after. Don't stop! keep fighting. Half way through the fight, I remembered to Duck! Last second!. The clown with the long pole with spike on the end just clipped my Bat ears. I spun round just in time, there is a clown in front of me, no time to think. I head butted him. not sure if that was in the routine or not?! Fight ended, claps and cheers from everyone, we did a great fight. The next day, am walking to lunch on the set WB. Tim is walking towards me with a rather curious look! Hi Tim, how was the Play back? Time went to the Theatre to watch the stuff we shot the day before. Great Dave, Really good. I walk on, Tim walks on. Then I heard 'Dave! I turn around, Yeah Tim. He walks towards me with this question look. Soft voice. Did you really head butt that guy, it looked really real! I replied. 'Tim, would I do such a thing?' He smiled the way only Tim Burton can. Shook his head, smiled, Muttered something Like ' I thought so' There you are fans...Inside scoop. Go watch the scene again. Photos on set of me and Tim will be shown soon.

Apparently, Dave is pretty great with improv
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uL6nuZUONQE
At 1:01, he ducks so close that the pole barely clips his bat ears. Even better, at 1:03, that head-butting wasn't a part of the routine. And that actor actually got head-butted. Tim Burton just kinda laughed it off.

During the alley fight with the ninja in B89, there are many shots of Batman in action where you can tell it's NOT Michael Keaton in costume but Dave Lea, particularly the shot where he poses in the top left picture in these screenshots.

(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.davelea.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F08%2FLea_Batman.jpg&hash=64b9e4829b9a562d5a86a2f85007a450998e19f0)

In any case, it doesn't bother me at all. I'm glad that Burton had a stunt actor and co-ordinator who performed, in my opinion, the best Batman fight sequences to date.

You hadn't heard the story of the Batman Returns head-butt? Haven't you read my interview?  ;) (It's on page 6)

http://www.batman-online.com/features/2009/12/19/michael-keaton-stunt-double-dave-lea-interview

You'll have to forgive me, I think I last read that was in 2009. Though now that you brought that up, now sounds like a great time to re-read it.

Speaking of stunt men that got a little too close to the action, Philip Tan apparently had bruises from when Dave thrusted that metal glove extension into where the sun don't shine.

He is so freaking awesome.

I found three videos worth sharing from Dave Lea's very own YouTube channel.

The first video is this amusing little skit of Lea reprising his Batman stunt role, and swapping with other actors in costume.  ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8UICzWSoVo

The second video is this short little chat with B89 second unit director Peter MacDonald. I love the montage of these rare behind the scenes photos from B89 and Tango & Cash, which both MacDonald and Lea worked together on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsHOdQQ4KQo

Finally, the third video is a stunt compilation from the Burton era, together with more rare BTS photos.

I never knew he made a cameo appearance as a bystander looking on as the Batmobile unlocks its shields, as you can see on the one minute mark.

You gotta love his Catwoman buckethead mask on the 7:17 mark.  ;D

https://youtu.be/4aDxetuY09k

He's quite the character, that Dave Lea. (https://www.batman-online.com/forum/Themes/default/images/post/thumbup.gif)

Absolutely shocked and saddened to hear of the death of Dave Lea.

He was a great friend of our site and I had the privilege to speak with him on the phone on several occasions over the years.

Our condolences to his family and friends. He died on August 6th.

You can read my extensive interview with Dave from Dec 2009

https://www.batman-online.com/features/2009/12/19/michael-keaton-stunt-double-dave-lea-interview


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

RIP Dave.

So sorry to hear this. Many of us on this site are connoisseurs of eighties and nineties action movies, and Lea was one of the great stunt performers of that era. He more than anyone was responsible for making the Burton Batman believably tough on screen, and his legacy extends to countless other action movies too. He trained Keaton and Pfeiffer for the Batman movies and he trained Ben Affleck for Daredevil. Here are some of his fight scenes.

Tango & Cash (1989). He doubles for Kurt Russell in the first fight scene in this clip, then plays the villain fighting Stallone in the second scene.


Versus Vam Damme in Double Impact (1991). From the 1:00 mark.


Versus Stallone again, this time in Demolition Man (1993). From the 1:22 mark.


Versus Will Smith in Wild Wild West (1999).


And versus Stallone once more in Get Carter (2000).


And here he is in a sketch with Tom Cruise and Ben Stiller.


Rest in peace, Dark Knight.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun,  7 Aug  2022, 15:48
So sorry to hear this. Many of us on this site are connoisseurs of eighties and nineties action movies, and Lea was one of the great stunt performers of that era. He more than anyone was responsible for making the Burton Batman believably tough on screen

His contributions to Batman onscreen are sufficient that I unofficially number him among "actors who have played Batman".

It's a slippery slope, I realize. If you include Lea, how can you exclude other stunt performers? Notwithstanding, and as you say, Lea deserves a special place of recognition in big screen action cinema in general and with Batman in particular.

This is an exasperating loss.

Fans of Burton's Batman have heavy hearts today. One can't help but feel a large and valuable piece of their soul has been lost with the passing of Dave Lea. He was just as much Batman as Keaton in many respects, and by all accounts a genuinely nice man. He certainly was a friend of this place and gave Paul an interview, which remains one of the best additions to the site. He's gone, but at the same time he's not. Whenever I watch the early Batman films, and that's fairly often, his contribution will always be there, immortalized in time for many future generations to enjoy. Rest In Peace, Mr Lea.

Quote from: Paul (ral) on Sun,  7 Aug  2022, 14:36
Absolutely shocked and saddened to hear of the death of Dave Lea.

He was a great friend of our site and I had the privilege to speak with him on the phone on several occasions over the years.

Our condolences to his family and friends. He died on August 6th.

You can read my extensive interview with Dave from Dec 2009

https://www.batman-online.com/features/2009/12/19/michael-keaton-stunt-double-dave-lea-interview


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Terrible news to wake up to. His contributions were immense. RIP Dave Lea.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun,  7 Aug  2022, 16:47His contributions to Batman onscreen are sufficient that I unofficially number him among "actors who have played Batman".

It's a slippery slope, I realize. If you include Lea, how can you exclude other stunt performers?

I've read some things over the past couple of years that have opened my eyes to just how little Keaton did in the suit. I knew doubles and stand-ins had been used, but I didn't realise quite how extensively until fairly recently. Take the opening rooftop fight scene from Batman '89. The first shot of Batman that's actually Keaton is the one where he kicks the mugger through the door.


After that there's a close-up of Keaton's face, which is actually taken from the Axis Chemical sequence later in the movie, and then Keaton did the bit where Batman's talking to the other mugger as he dangles him over the roof. Every other shot of Batman in that scene is either Carl Newman or Sean McCabe. I always assumed that the first clear shot of Batman spreading his cape was Keaton, but it's actually Newman.


Newman has a Twitter account called 'Balletbat' where he posts pictures and reminiscences about the making of the movie: https://twitter.com/1989balletbat?lang=en


In one of his posts Newman confirmed that some of the publicity shots attributed to Keaton actually depict him in the costume. A similar thing happened with some of the Batman Returns posters, only there the PR department put Keaton's head on Lea's body.

Incidentally, the shot of Batman kicking the mugger through the door in B89 is the only kick that Keaton himself performed in either Burton Batman movie. I'm pretty sure all the other kicks were performed by Lea, with the exception of the shot where Batman kicks the gun out of Napier's hand. That was done by Sean McCabe.


During the cathedral fight scene, there are about three or four close-up shots of Keaton, including the one where he opens the trapdoor. But every other shot of Batman in that scene, prior to the bit where he says "Excuse me" to the Joker, was performed by Lea, Newman or McCabe. Even the shots of Batman just climbing out through the trapdoor, walking and turning were all handled by Newman (with the exception of that one famous bat-turn shot that's clearly Keaton). McCabe handled all the falls and Lea did the actual fighting. Once Batman confronts the Joker, then it's mostly Keaton. But almost everything before that was handled by doubles.

In Batman Returns, for most of the non-close-up shots of Batman it's actually Mike Cassidy in the suit. Practically every shot of Batman walking where you can't clearly see his face is Cassidy. Most shots of Batman from behind are Cassidy. Every shot of Batman getting in or out of the Batmobile is Cassidy. Cassidy did all the falls and handled most, if not all, of the wirework. The scene where Batman drives the Batmobile into Gotham, gets out, activates the shields and walks away in search of the Ice Princess, is all Cassidy. There's no Keaton in that scene. It's also Cassidy in this publicity shot, even though some sites incorrectly list it as Keaton.


I think I'm right in saying that Cassidy handled all the bat-glider stunts too, including the scene of Batman landing, rolling to his feet and getting back in the Batmobile before being pursued by the police. Cassidy also did a small amount of the fighting. Most of the combat in BR was handled by Lea and Keaton (Keaton did more fighting himself in BR than B89). But Cassidy did some of it, as illustrated by this pic.


So these guys definitely deserve a lot of credit. It might be interesting to have a thread where we go through every Batman scene shot by shot and try to determine who is wearing the suit at each moment. I'm sure Keaton would still have the most screen time in the suit, simply because the close-up shots of him driving and speaking last longer than the action shots. But in the case of B89, I'd wager a very high percentage of the shots of Batman – perhaps even the majority of them – are not actually Keaton.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sun,  7 Aug  2022, 21:20He was just as much Batman as Keaton in many respects,

This is why I can't take people seriously who dismiss the Burton Batman's fighting abilities and call him wimpy. If someone wants to make the argument that Keaton is a wimp, then that's one thing. But to call the Burton Batman a wimp is to call Dave Lea a wimp. And Lea was no wimp. He was a hard-as-nails street fighter from the East End of London with firsthand experience of brawling and football hooliganism. Before getting into the film business he'd worked as a bodyguard, and supposedly he was feared and respected by several underworld figures who knew to steer clear of any female celebrity under his protection. Lea travelled Asia studying martial arts, and amongst the notable masters who trained him was Bruce Lee's friend and student Dan Inosanto.

According to his IMDb page, Lea had trained in Shotokan Karate, Kali, Shaolin Kung Fu, Wing Chun Kung Fu, Fu Jow Pai, White Crane Kung Fu, Leopard Kung Fu, Snake Kung Fu, Southern Dragon Kung Fu, Silat, Hapkune Do, Judo, Aikido, Jiujitsu, Tai Chi, Taekwondo, Muay Thai, Jeet Kune Do and Kickboxing. From what I gather, it sounds as though he didn't master these different fighting styles, but rather studied each of them just long enough to cultivate a functional proficiency and then incorporate their strongest aspects into his own unique hybrid style. The Batman in the comics did something similar, and like the comic book Batman Lea kept himself in peak physical condition.


Judging by the following demonstration, his pain threshold must have been borderline superhuman.


This is the guy you're fighting when you face the Burton Batman.

Very nice tribute to Mr. Dave Lea, Silver.

Rest in Peace.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Mon,  8 Aug  2022, 14:35
I've read some things over the past couple of years that have opened my eyes to just how little Keaton did in the suit. I knew doubles and stand-ins had been used, but I didn't realise quite how extensively until fairly recently. Take the opening rooftop fight scene from Batman '89. The first shot of Batman that's actually Keaton is the one where he kicks the mugger through the door.

I've just found out about Newman recently now that he's taken full advantage of social media. It's been super helpful of him to point out all shots where he's in the suit (his face looks even closer than Lea's). His presence in all the promotional pics is pretty mind-blowing, I wonder what the story is behind Keaton's absence? Either way, when it comes to autographs, Newman has no shortage of iconic pictures in the batsuit.

While it is eye-opening how little Keaton was in the suit, it doesn't really lower my opinion of him; by all accounts he's still an absolute gentleman, and never claimed to be the one doing all the stunts. Now I wonder what the timeline was for bringing in the different stuntmen. Keaton initially performed some fight scenes, like the alley fight with Bob, but Lea says it was a late term pickup shot when they deemed the scene unsatisfactory. I wonder how much Keaton struggled in the suit for the first film.

Going back to Lea, what an absolute loss. He was like a real life Batman, traveling the world and mastering multiple martial arts. I was speechless to hear about the death of one of the most fit 67 year olds out there. His talent is certainly always something he'll be remembered for, but to plenty of fans he was a friendly and insightful look into all the blockbusters he participated in.

Quote from: Slash Man on Thu, 25 Aug  2022, 23:51
While it is eye-opening how little Keaton was in the suit, it doesn't really lower my opinion of him; by all accounts he's still an absolute gentleman, and never claimed to be the one doing all the stunts.

I think it goes to show the skill in which these stunt doubles were filmed by Burton in pretty much a seamless manner and thus presenting Batman in the best way possible for the time in which the movie was made. Keaton wasn't ripped, so they gave the suit muscles. Keaton couldn't punch swords, so they hired someone who would. Modern audiences wouldn't tolerate such a heavy approach these days, but I think it shows the character really is a seperate entity, an avatar of mystery of iconicism that elevates him above any one person. Even the man who is meant to be playing him in the film. It helped that he was depicted in the shadows for most of the time even when Keaton was in the suit himself.

There's a lot to be said for actors stepping aside and allowing the fight doubles to do their job. TDK and TDKRises probably would've been improved at least a little bit if Bale had been a little more hands-off with the fight sequences.

I quite enjoy TDK Trilogy these days, but there's no denying the step up in fight choreography with the Batfleck era. What we've seen from Battinson has been good so far, but BvS/ZSJL remains at the top for me. And of course, realizing Batman goes beyond stuntmen, as digital versions are used at times throughout the movies. Nothing is completely pure in terms of an actor's performance in the cowl. Expectations have increased with bodybuilding and stunt work, but their main task remains dialogue and chemistry with other performers.

I recently stumbled across this picture that I'd never seen before. Judging by how thick Batman's left arm looks, I'm guessing this might be another instance where Keaton's head has been placed on someone else's body. Or maybe it is Keaton's body and it's just a trick of the light.

Quote from: Slash Man on Thu, 25 Aug  2022, 23:51Now I wonder what the timeline was for bringing in the different stuntmen. Keaton initially performed some fight scenes, like the alley fight with Bob, but Lea says it was a late term pickup shot when they deemed the scene unsatisfactory. I wonder how much Keaton struggled in the suit for the first film.

That right. Lea said he was brought in when filming was already underway and that the first scene he worked on was the alley fight. I get the impression they originally intended to have Keaton perform more of the fight scenes, but then decided his moves didn't look convincing enough on camera and so brought in Lea to pick up the slack.

Keaton also pulled a muscle shooting multiple takes of the scene where he kicks the mugger through the door. In one interview he even stated that he's been unable to elevate that leg above a certain height ever since. So his injury was also probably a factor in him stepping back and allowing his doubles to handle the action.

In our site interview, Lea confirmed he wasn't on set the day Keaton shot the fight scene against Tracey Walter:

Quote Paul: Towards the end of the Alley scene there is a shot with Tracey Walter - was another scene shot? I have seen some behind the scenes footage with Tracey Walter's character, Bob, using a knife.
Dave: Wasn't me. I didn't hear about it. It could have been a pick up shot with Tracey and Michael - although Michael definitely wasn't doing any action.

So there was definitely a time when they were filming that scene without Lea. Some pictures survive from the Batman vs. Bob scene, but most of them depict Sean McCabe in the suit rather than Keaton.


However, Keaton did film the parts of this scene where Batman was photographed from the front.


If you look at this shot towards the end of the alley fight, note where the unconscious goons are lying. Mac McDonald's goon is lying on the rubbish heap where Batman kicked him, but the positions of the other two goons don't correspond with where they fell in the finished fight scene.


This suggests to me that an entirely different version of the fight scene might have been shot with Keaton, McCabe and Newman, climaxing in the one-on-one duel between Batman and Bob, before the sequence was scrapped and reshot with Lea. Either that or the positions of the fallen goons are just a continuity error.

Lea also doesn't seem to have been present throughout the shooting of the Axis Chemicals sequence. That was all Keaton, McCabe and Newman. As for the deleted scene where Batman raises his hands and pretends to surrender before dropping smoke bombs, that was all Newman. McCabe performed the stunt where Batman escapes from the police by ascending on the wire, and Newman did the shot of Batman standing in front of the neon Axis sign.

To sum up, I don't think Lea was involved with the filming of the opening rooftop fight or the Axis Chemicals sequence. They must have been shot before he was hired. But he was very involved in the shooting of the alley fight and the cathedral showdown.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 26 Aug  2022, 11:35
I think it goes to show the skill in which these stunt doubles were filmed by Burton in pretty much a seamless manner and thus presenting Batman in the best way possible for the time in which the movie was made. Keaton wasn't ripped, so they gave the suit muscles. Keaton couldn't punch swords, so they hired someone who would. Modern audiences wouldn't tolerate such a heavy approach these days, but I think it shows the character really is a seperate entity, an avatar of mystery of iconicism that elevates him above any one person. Even the man who is meant to be playing him in the film. It helped that he was depicted in the shadows for most of the time even when Keaton was in the suit himself.

Absolutely. It's nice if the actor is believably tough in the role, but what matters most is what it looks like on screen in the finished film. I suspect a similar actor/double balance was struck with Kilmer, Clooney and Affleck in their Batman films. Keaton certainly did a more respectable percentage of his own fight scenes than Clooney did, especially in Batman Returns. The following fight clips all show Keaton in action.


Admittedly the choreography here isn't terribly demanding or complex, but considering the limitations of the suit I'm still glad that he did some of it himself. Burton and Lea both confirmed that Keaton did more in the costume in BR. This would explain why Batman's fighting style changes between films – in B89 he uses more kicks, while in BR he relies more on punches, headbutts and throws.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 26 Aug  2022, 12:58
There's a lot to be said for actors stepping aside and allowing the fight doubles to do their job. TDK and TDKRises probably would've been improved at least a little bit if Bale had been a little more hands-off with the fight sequences.

Agreed. I respect Bale's commitment to the role, but the fight scenes remain a weak point in the otherwise excellent Nolan trilogy. They're ok, but they could have been so much better if Nolan had let a second unit director handle them and if Bale had let his stunt double do the fighting. It's especially frustrating when you consider that Bale's stunt double was elite martial artist Buster Reeves.


Before getting into films, Reeves competed for the middleweight, light heavyweight and heavyweight world jiu-jitsu titles. He became world champion in all three weight divisions and retired with an undefeated fight record. He also set a Guinness World Record for 'most kicks to the head in a minute' (256). In real life, he's probably the toughest man to ever don the batsuit.


Reeves was Bale's main double in BB and TDK. In BB he got to perform some of Batman's flashier moves in the suit, most memorably during the fight against the League of Shadows warriors towards the end of the film. When it came to TDK, Bale insisted on doing all of the fighting himself. I remember people making a big deal about this when the movie first came out in order to hype Bale's physicality. In reality though, Reeves still did a small amount of the fighting in TDK. For example, the following shot depicts Reeves in the suit. I remember reading an interview with the stunt coordinator where he confirmed this.


I'm not sure if Reeves doubled for Bale in TDKR, but he definitely doubled for Tom Hardy in that film. If they'd let him do more of the fighting in TDK, I expect Batman's skills would have looked a lot more impressive.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun, 28 Aug  2022, 18:50
Admittedly the choreography here isn't terribly demanding or complex, but considering the limitations of the suit I'm still glad that he did some of it himself. Burton and Lea both confirmed that Keaton did more in the costume in BR. This would explain why Batman's fighting style changes between films – in B89 he uses more kicks, while in BR he relies more on punches, headbutts and throws.

I like that these movements are still in line with the spirit of B89 in the sense Batman puts goons down instantly to end an encounter, like using the gauntlet in the cathedral or kicking down the sword swinging goon. The simplicity lends this Batman a high degree of power and competency. I'm hoping we get something similar to these takedowns in The Flash.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun, 28 Aug  2022, 18:50

(https://i.postimg.cc/JzsqP6ZQ/Reeves-TDK.gif)

This GIF is an example of exactly the type of excitement Batman films should be delivering. I'd rate Hing Kong as the best Nolan era action scene in terms of concept and execution.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun, 28 Aug  2022, 18:50
If you look at this shot towards the end of the alley fight, note where the unconscious goons are lying. Mac McDonald's goon is lying on the rubbish heap where Batman kicked him, but the positions of the other two goons don't correspond with where they fell in the finished fight scene.

(https://i.postimg.cc/NfpJN2VQ/5.png)

This suggests to me that an entirely different version of the fight scene might have been shot with Keaton, McCabe and Newman, climaxing in the one-on-one duel between Batman and Bob, before the sequence was scrapped and reshot with Lea. Either that or the positions of the fallen goons are just a continuity error.

I think you're on to something there. The fact that one goon's position lines up, but the others don't would seem to suggest that the rest was redone. It's fascinating how little we know about deleted scenes from these movies, some were only revealed by 1989batman's still images.

Quote from: Slash Man on Wed, 21 Sep  2022, 03:12

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun, 28 Aug  2022, 18:50
If you look at this shot towards the end of the alley fight, note where the unconscious goons are lying. Mac McDonald's goon is lying on the rubbish heap where Batman kicked him, but the positions of the other two goons don't correspond with where they fell in the finished fight scene.

(https://i.postimg.cc/NfpJN2VQ/5.png)

This suggests to me that an entirely different version of the fight scene might have been shot with Keaton, McCabe and Newman, climaxing in the one-on-one duel between Batman and Bob, before the sequence was scrapped and reshot with Lea. Either that or the positions of the fallen goons are just a continuity error.

I think you're on to something there. The fact that one goon's position lines up, but the others don't would seem to suggest that the rest was redone. It's fascinating how little we know about deleted scenes from these movies, some were only revealed by 1989batman's still images.

Jon Peters recently spoke about this scene in an interview with Joe Rogan.

https://youtu.be/J17H6X5tBwQ