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Apparently Michael Keaton is in early talks to reprise his role as Batman in The Flash movie and several other upcoming DC films. Several sources are backing this up, including The Hollywood Reporter:

Quote Micheal Keaton in Talks to Return as Batman for 'Flash' Movie

Keaton last played the character in 1992's "Batman Returns" and skewered the idea of a faded superhero actor in 2014's Oscar-winning "Birdman."

There may be new Batman in town. And he's the same as the old Batman.

Michael Keaton, who famously starred as the Caped Crusader in the Tim Burton-directed early 1990s Batman movies, is in talks to reprise the character for Warner Bros.'s DC movie, The Flash.

Ezra Miller is on board to star as Barry Allen, AKA, the Flash, in the feature that will be directed by It filmmaker Andy Muschietti.

But wait, there's more. If a deal makes, Keaton wouldn't just return for Flash but possibly for several other DC-oriented film projects. Sources tell THR that the role being envisioned for the veteran actor is akin to the role played by Samuel Jackson as Nick Fury in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, something of a mentor or guide or even string puller. Batgirl is one the projects in development that could fall under that win.

Warners had no comment.

Keaton was a comedic actor who was nabbed the plum role of Batman for 1989's Batman, something on which he initially took heat from fans who didn't see him as imposing or chiseled. But the movie became a sensation and the actor reprised the character for the 1992 sequel, Batman Returns. For the longest time, Keaton tried to distance himself from the part and even skewered it in 2014's Birdman, where played a faded actor who once starred in superhero movies. The part earned him an Oscar nomination for best actor.

Pattinson's The Batman is currently being looked as separate from Flash or other DC movies but the Flash feature project is offering an intriguing escape hatch to such ideas: the story is said to involve not just time travel but inter-dimensional travel. This posits the idea that those movies existed in their own timeline and, more tantalizing with the Keaton development, the idea that you can cross over from one "movie universe" to another.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/micheal-keaton-talks-return-as-batman-flash-movie-1299668

Several other sites, as well as some entertainment journalists on Twitter, are reporting the same thing. I've generally been opposed to the idea of the Flash's first solo film being a Flashpoint adaptation. But if this pans out, and we get Keaton back in the cowl, then count me in. ;D

What a weird day.  My head is all over the place right now.

I saw this news first, and welcomed it with cautious excitement.  I still have some apprehension about any canonical follow-up to Batman '89 and Batman Returns that isn't directed by Tim Burton (even if I do regard Batman Forever, Batman & Robin, and even Catwoman, as loose sequels), particularly in view of the different aesthetics and mindsets that dominate today's superhero milieu.  I would not, for instance, have been happy to see Keaton appear in CW's Crisis on Infinite Earths, as I utterly despise the CW.  But the solo Flash movie is reportedly being directed by Andy Muschetti, who helmed one of my favourite genre films of the last ten years (2017's It, the sequel of which is also pretty good if not quite up to the same quality - incidentally, the first It is set during the summer of 1989, and you can even spot a theater marquee displaying 'Batman').  So, like I say, I'm cautiously excited.

I also saw the sad news, in very quick succession, of Joel Schumacher's death at the age of 80, and so, like I also say, my head is a bit all over the place at the moment, speaking as an aficionado of the Burton/Schumacher era of Batman films.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Mon, 22 Jun  2020, 19:07
Apparently Michael Keaton is in early talks to reprise his role as Batman in The Flash movie and several other upcoming DC films. Several sources are backing this up, including The Hollywood Reporter:

Quote Micheal Keaton in Talks to Return as Batman for 'Flash' Movie

Keaton last played the character in 1992's "Batman Returns" and skewered the idea of a faded superhero actor in 2014's Oscar-winning "Birdman."

There may be new Batman in town. And he's the same as the old Batman.

Michael Keaton, who famously starred as the Caped Crusader in the Tim Burton-directed early 1990s Batman movies, is in talks to reprise the character for Warner Bros.'s DC movie, The Flash.

Ezra Miller is on board to star as Barry Allen, AKA, the Flash, in the feature that will be directed by It filmmaker Andy Muschietti.

But wait, there's more. If a deal makes, Keaton wouldn't just return for Flash but possibly for several other DC-oriented film projects. Sources tell THR that the role being envisioned for the veteran actor is akin to the role played by Samuel Jackson as Nick Fury in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, something of a mentor or guide or even string puller. Batgirl is one the projects in development that could fall under that win.

Warners had no comment.

Keaton was a comedic actor who was nabbed the plum role of Batman for 1989's Batman, something on which he initially took heat from fans who didn't see him as imposing or chiseled. But the movie became a sensation and the actor reprised the character for the 1992 sequel, Batman Returns. For the longest time, Keaton tried to distance himself from the part and even skewered it in 2014's Birdman, where played a faded actor who once starred in superhero movies. The part earned him an Oscar nomination for best actor.

Pattinson's The Batman is currently being looked as separate from Flash or other DC movies but the Flash feature project is offering an intriguing escape hatch to such ideas: the story is said to involve not just time travel but inter-dimensional travel. This posits the idea that those movies existed in their own timeline and, more tantalizing with the Keaton development, the idea that you can cross over from one "movie universe" to another.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/micheal-keaton-talks-return-as-batman-flash-movie-1299668

Several other sites, as well as some entertainment journalists on Twitter, are reporting the same thing. I've generally been opposed to the idea of the Flash's first solo film being a Flashpoint adaptation. But if this pans out, and we get Keaton back in the cowl, then count me in. ;D

This seems a little too good to be true. If it was anything besides the Hollywood Reporter, I'd probably reject the entire idea as absurd. As it stands, it still seems too good to be true. But I'm willing to kick back and let things happen however they need to happen. Anything that brings Keaton back to Batman in any capacity whatsoever is automatically good in my book.

It does sound far too good to be true, but I can't help getting my hopes up. West and Keaton are my two favourite live action Batmen, and I still maintain Keaton was the best of the Warner Bros actors. The other Batmen were physically closer to the Bruce Wayne in the comics, but Keaton's performance was magic. As Steve Englehart said:

QuoteFor my money, Christian Bale looked like Batman on the outside but Keaton looked like Batman on the inside, which is where Batman lives.

https://13thdimension.com/batman-89-an-appreciation-by-steve-englehart/

I've been wanting Keaton back as Batman since I was a child. I remember discussing the idea with friends on the school playground after Batman & Robin came out. And now, 23 years later, it might just happen.

I have a dream of a Keaton Batman movie trilogy:

•   Batman
•   Batman Returns
•   Batman Beyond

This news brings that dream one step closer to fruition. Now I just need Marvel to announce Charlie Cox is returning as Daredevil.

The Wrap has posted some alleged plot details explaining how Bat-Keaton will cross over with the DCEU. If this is true, then Schumacher's movies will no longer be canonical sequels to the Burton films.

QuoteKeaton last played Batman in 1992's "Batman Returns," but quit the role during development of a third film after Burton was pushed out as director and replaced with Joel Schumacher, who took the series in a campier direction with 1995's "Batman Forever" and its much-reviled 1997 follow up "Batman & Robin."

But "The Flash" will disregard the latter two entries entirely, and explore what Keaton's version of Batman has been up since we last saw him. Loosely based on the 2011 DC Comics crossover event "Flashpoint" — previously announced as the film's title at Comic-Con 2017 — the story sees Ezra Miller's Barry Allen travel back in time to prevent the death of his mother. The result? Allen inadvertently creates another universe protected by Michael Keaton's Batman, now 30 years older.

https://www.thewrap.com/batman-returns-michael-keaton-bruce-wayne-the-flash-movie/

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Mon, 22 Jun  2020, 20:37
The Wrap has posted some alleged plot details explaining how Bat-Keaton will cross over with the DCEU. If this is true, then Schumacher's movies will no longer be canonical sequels to the Burton films.

Shame about the timing...

Honestly, I consider Forever and B&R to be canon to the Burton films, but ideally we'd be getting a genuine sequel to Returns, or a Pfeiffer Catwoman spin-off.

"Oh, what a day."  :o 

Keaton back in a new Flash movie? Yes, sign me up. Let's do this.

Hopefully this pans out, because this sounds awesome. And it doesn't hurt Affleck's Batman, JP's Joker or Robert Pattinson's Batman, in fact, it just makes it that much more badass that the multiverse could be an actual thing for the DCEU.

I like this rumor a lot!

Dreams are becoming realities.

I don't consider BF or B&R pure canon to the Burronverse, so ignoring them is exactly what I would want. At Keaton's current age, if he's ever going to return the time is now. We've waited around long enough, and for something that had a slim to none chance or happening in the first place.

Anything that gives us more Keaton Batman IN THE FLESH has my total support. Even if that means he's mentoring a Burtonverse version of Batgirl rather than Terry - which would still give us the same mentor role we want to see. The fact we're even debating this as a live option is insane.

Late last year this was raised:

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Mon, 21 Oct  2019, 06:05
I'd usually dismiss this, and while doubt levels are still high, I'm not so sure I can.

Keaton is set to appear at a comic convention and he has also written the foreword to the new Batman hardcover book. His role as the Vulture in Homecoming is more proof he's more open to this stuff. This is my own indulgence, but with the passing of Adam West, perhaps he has loosened up further about his place in the franchise? He always says he IS Batman.

JOKER's legacy being standalone films unconnected to other continuity would be fantastic. Do we really need to wait for an era to end before we can do something else? I don't think so. We are all intelligent enough to know if something is separate from the Pattinson or Affleck timelines.

Keaton's return would be the biggest Batman event in...well...ever.

It'll probably go nowhere. But if the thought bubble is out there, that's a start.

I can see Keaton agreeing to this, much for the reasons I posted above in the quoted post.

Apparently Jeffrey Dean Morgan is in talks for Flashpoint Batman, too. So add in ZSJL, The Batman, WBGM's game and now this Keaton news....the fandom is entering a special place despite prior frustrations.

If Keaton were to come back on a more regular basis, then I guess the chances of a Batman Beyond adaptation is greater than ever.

If this happens then it goes to show that DC are really embracing that multiverse concept for live action, as they already started with Ezra Miller's Flash cameo in Crisis on Infinite Earths.

I wonder if there is any truth to the rumours of Jeffrey Dean Morgan reprising his role as Thomas Wayne, but as Flashpoint Batman?

He could be substituting Affleck's DCEU role, meaning Beyond's mentor concept but applied to the entire League. It's a funny world we live in - imagine if Keaton ends up with more filmic content than Bale. I'm now seeing talk that the Jeffrey Dean Morgan Flashpoint Batman won't happen, and they'll instead go with Keaton and not have both. If we have to choose between the two it's a no brainer who I'd pick.

But wow. Just wow. This site has its origins in worshiping B89/BR, so this is the ultimate red meat for us. Details about his crimefighting career after BR, and relics and trophies in the cave...it's all on the table now if the story is true and Keaton signs up. I've said it before, but Bruce sitting in a black room brooding would be enough to send the fans wild.

If Keaton's Bruce is plucked out of his universe and placed into the DCEU, another new Gotham aesthetic (or even if they seek to replicate B89 or BR's Gotham), would have to get its most airtime in the Flashpoint movie. With Alfred, Gordon and others dead, he may be okay making that universe jump, and permanently. 

Wow.  I'm gobsmacked.  This is fantastic news!

Quote from: KeatonisBatman on Tue, 23 Jun  2020, 09:46
Wow.  I'm gobsmacked.  This is fantastic news!

Keaton not suiting up (or minimally) would contrast against Pattinson who will be.

I think that's a point of difference of why this would be allowed. It would be interesting to know, if Keaton signs up, how much creative input he'd have. In the Burton films he cut down dialogue. Mark Hamill had his reign as Luke Skywalker tarnished. I'd imagine Michael would want to be confident he's signing up to something worthwhile.

If a Beyond film gets made, it makes you wonder who directs it. Burton? Even if he doesn't, the project has to go ahead, because this opportunity is too good to pass up.

Same goes for Elfman - but his theme has to be there if he's not.

Meanwhile, if we're lead to believe this screenshot and article is legitimate, then Flash producer Barbara Muschietti has all but confirmed that Ray Fisher will reprise his Cyborg role.

Source: https://fullcirclecinema.com/2020/06/19/the-flash-confirms-ray-fisher-cyborg/

(https://preview.redd.it/pb9mda2oos551.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=301a2987315eeb19cb87bf1ab2da02a9cae60976)

Assuming if Keaton and Fisher do get cast for real, I wonder how this film would shape up? Would it still be using the same Cyborg from ZSJL, or would it be another multiverse version of the character e.g. Flashpoint, where he is the greatest superhero in a doomed planet? If Keaton were to suit up, will it really take place 27 years after BR? If so, let's hope he fares a little better than John Wesley Shipp's Flash in the Arrowverse. Whether it's cameo or otherwise. :-\

As exciting as this rumour sounds, I prefer to wait and see if Keaton returning is really happening. If so, it would be another great coup for the DC brand. Not just Batman.

RE: Jeffrey Dean Morgan, if he's not reprising Thomas Wayne and has nothing to do with The Flash then I suppose the "masked comeback" remark was simply a New Year's Day joke.

Quote from: Jeffrey Dean Morgan
Gus found the comedian mask. Still fits like a glove. And looks extra extra with my badass bifocals. Here's to a masked comeback in 2020.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ENI347YXYAAoTkL?format=jpg&name=900x900)

(https://twitter.com/JDMorgan/status/1212092717699866624)

https://twitter.com/JDMorgan/status/1212092717699866624

Warner Bros is shamelessly pandering to a small subset of the Batman fanbase that are obsessed with seeing Keaton return. However, since we happen to be that small subset, it's an epic win for us. ;D I've seen a lot of positive buzz about this across the internet, but I'd imagine it means more to our community here on Batman-Online than to any other section of the fandom.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Tue, 23 Jun  2020, 02:21I'm now seeing talk that the Jeffrey Dean Morgan Flashpoint Batman won't happen, and they'll instead go with Keaton and not have both. If we have to choose between the two it's a no brainer who I'd pick.

If the plot description posted on The Wrap is accurate, then it sounds like that's what's happening. Miller's Flash will cross into the Burtonverse, and then that universe will somehow merge with the DCEU so that Bat-Keaton replaces Batfleck. This means not only will we get to see Burton's Batman return, but we should get to revisit his Gotham too. They're scheduled to begin filming in London early next year. Is it possible they might dredge up some of the old 1989 sets? Perhaps return to the same forest road where the Descent into Mystery scene was filmed?

If there's one other actor from the Burtonverse they should bring back, my vote goes to Pfeiffer. I'd love to catch up with what's been happening between Bruce and Selina over the past 28 years. Perhaps Billy Dee Williams could also put in an appearance as Two-Face. Maybe we'll even get to see a Burtonverse Arkham populated by Burtonised versions of Scarecrow and Riddler. Perhaps Bat-Keaton will get to meet Cavill's Superman and Gadot's Wonder Woman further down the line. There's so much potential here.

If Bat-Keaton is taking Thomas Wayne's place in the Flashpoint storyline – and it sounds like that's what they're planning – then we might get to see him take down Reverse Flash like in the original comic. Though in light of what Bruce said to Selina at the end of Batman Returns, I'd prefer it if Bat-Keaton didn't kill from now on.


I know many people don't want Miller returning as the Flash after the recent choking incident. Personally, I've always thoughts he was badly miscast as Barry Allen anyway, so I'd be happy to see him replaced by someone else (Gosling would be perfect). But if Miller is in the film, at least we'll get to see him tortured at the hands of Bat-Keaton.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Tue, 23 Jun  2020, 02:21It's a funny world we live in - imagine if Keaton ends up with more filmic content than Bale.

I still remember back in the days when Keaton fans used to cite the fact he'd starred in more Batman movies than any other actor as an argument for the superiority of his interpretation. Then Bale tied his record with TDK before breaking it with TDKR. But if this goes ahead, Keaton will reclaim the record from Bale and Affleck and (hopefully) set a new one. West will retain the record for the most amount of live action screen time in the role, but Keaton will be the Batman actor who starred in the most live action movies.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Tue, 23 Jun  2020, 10:26Mark Hamill had his reign as Luke Skywalker tarnished. I'd imagine Michael would want to be confident he's signing up to something worthwhile.

The Luke precedent has me slightly worried.

I don't want to see Harrison Ford return as Indiana Jones. I love the original trilogy and I'm happy to leave it at that. The Last Crusade was the perfect ending. Let's not ruin it by making another. I'm also apprehensive about the new Ghostbusters. There was a time when I would have killed to see GB3, and I waited decades for it to happen. But now they've made us wait too long and the ship has sailed. I'll still go and see Afterlife, and I'm trying to be optimistic about it, but I can't honestly say I'm excited anymore. There were two childhood heroes I always wanted to see return to the big screen: Mark Hamill as Luke Skywalker and Michael Keaton as Batman. One of those already happened, and it was a disaster.

What if they do something similar with Bat-Keaton? What if they pull the same post-modernist shtick to "subvert our expectations" and have Bruce portrayed as a broken down wimp who refuses to train his successor or help the people of Gotham? What if they follow the recent trend of bringing back old heroes just to kill them off? I hope none of these things happen, but if they do we might end up wishing Keaton hadn't returned. Just like I wish Luke hadn't. That's a sobering thought.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Tue, 23 Jun  2020, 10:26Keaton not suiting up (or minimally) would contrast against Pattinson who will be.

I'm expecting he will suit up at some point. It might just be flashback scenes, where they have a young stunt double performing the action and digitally map Keaton's face onto his body, like they did with his stand-in on the set of Birdman. Close-up shots could be the real Keaton, but digitally de-aged using the same technology employed for the MCU flashback scenes (think Michael Douglas in Ant-Man, or Samuel L. Jackson in Captain Marvel). If they are using the Burton Batman as the Flashpoint incarnation, then I'm assuming he'll at least suit up for that film. But we'll see. I'm guessing he'll be out of costume and playing a mentor role throughout most of these films, but I'd be very surprised if there weren't at least a few scenes where we see him don the cowl once more.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Tue, 23 Jun  2020, 10:26If a Beyond film gets made, it makes you wonder who directs it. Burton? Even if he doesn't, the project has to go ahead, because this opportunity is too good to pass up.

Depending on how Top Gun Maverick turns out, Joseph Kosinski might be a good choice. He has a very strong visual sensibility (Oblivion) and prior experience directing cyberpunk material (Tron: Legacy). He can also handle drama well, as he demonstrated with Only the Brave.

You can say I'm reading too much into this, but I've checked all the GIFs promoting the upcoming DC FanDome event on DC Comics' Twitter page. Interestingly, B89 is the only old film highlighted for this event.

https://twitter.com/DCComics/status/1273014308306182144

Film journalist Umberto Gonzalez, who first broke this story, has confirmed that Jeffrey Dean Morgan will not be playing the Thomas Wayne Batman in Flashpoint. Instead Keaton will take his place, only MK will be playing an older version of the same Batman from the Burton films rather than Thomas Wayne.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Tue, 23 Jun  2020, 12:06If there's one other actor from the Burtonverse they should bring back, my vote goes to Pfeiffer. I'd love to catch up with what's been happening between Bruce and Selina over the past 28 years. Perhaps Billy Dee Williams could also put in an appearance as Two-Face. Maybe we'll even get to see a Burtonverse Arkham populated by Burtonised versions of Scarecrow and Riddler. Perhaps Bat-Keaton will get to meet Cavill's Superman and Gadot's Wonder Woman further down the line. There's so much potential here.

I don't know.  Would it be too much to ask for a cameo from Nicholas Cage as the Burtonverse Superman?  Or what about Marlon Wayans as Robin?  He's been getting paid for the part since 1992 after all.  He might as well do something to earn that keep.

As for Billy Dee Williams.  It's a shame his opportunity to play an active Two-Face went by, but I kind of like the idea that his is the one version of Harvey Dent that remained a good guy.  I'd welcome a BDW cameo but as Harvey Dent not as a 'Two-Face' simply languishing in Arkham Asylum.  BDW and his version of Harvey Dent deserve better than that.

But a Michelle Pfeiffer cameo would be the icing on the cake.

Also, in view of how sophisticated modern CGI is, I wonder if there would be an opportunity for The Flash to reserve-flash into Batman's past and help him correct some of his regrets/mistakes/tragedies, which might potentially offer room for more cameos.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Tue, 23 Jun  2020, 12:06
Warner Bros is shamelessly pandering to a small subset of the Batman fanbase that are obsessed with seeing Keaton return. However, since we happen to be that small subset, it's an epic win for us. ;D I've seen a lot of positive buzz about this across the internet, but I'd imagine it means more to our community here on Batman-Online than to any other section of the fandom.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Tue, 23 Jun  2020, 12:06The Luke precedent has me slightly worried.

I don't want to see Harrison Ford return as Indiana Jones. I love the original trilogy and I'm happy to leave it at that. The Last Crusade was the perfect ending. Let's not ruin it by making another. I'm also apprehensive about the new Ghostbusters. There was a time when I would have killed to see GB3, and I waited decades for it to happen. But now they've made us wait too long and the ship has sailed. I'll still go and see Afterlife, and I'm trying to be optimistic about it, but I can't honestly say I'm excited anymore. There were two childhood heroes I always wanted to see return to the big screen: Mark Hamill as Luke Skywalker and Michael Keaton as Batman. One of those already happened, and it was a disaster.

What if they do something similar with Bat-Keaton? What if they pull the same post-modernist shtick to "subvert our expectations" and have Bruce portrayed as a broken down wimp who refuses to train his successor or help the people of Gotham? What if they follow the recent trend of bringing back old heroes just to kill them off? I hope none of these things happen, but if they do we might end up wishing Keaton hadn't returned. Just like I wish Luke hadn't. That's a sobering thought.

What I specifically don't want is for Keaton to be brought back as Batman in some capacity and then killed off in the same movie. Keaton is no spring chicken, of course. But for me, it's not worth opening Pandora's box if they shoot for something cheap like killing Keaton's version of the character off in the movie.

I hasten to remind everybody that we're talking about Flashpoint here. That's a Flash story. All other characters (especially "alternate universe" characters like Keaton's Batman) might be considered expendable in a Flash movie.

I can already see the nitwit director or producer saying something dumb like "We thought it'd be great to up the stakes of the movie by killing off the alternate universe Batman. And hey, we cast Keaton as the alternate universe version so that's a good thing for fans, right?"

Remember, they don't think like we do.

I have minimal needs for this movie. And if this Keaton thing happens, my ONLY request is that the character not be killed off in any capacity whatsoever. I don't need Keaton to actually suit up as Batman and I don't need Keaton to come back for multiple films or anything like that. I wouldn't say no to that stuff, don't get me wrong. But I don't need it either.

I just need the character to not get killed off. And people, considering how things played out with Arrowverse's COIE, this is something we should all be mindful of.

The deal seems to be for multiple films or more, so it seems less likely Keaton gets killed in the Flash movie. That seems to be the re-introduction to the character so the mentor role can be served long term. Ultimately, I think the disappointment of DisneyWars and chiefly it's handling of Luke will be beneficial to a lot of other legacy franchises, much like the darker direction the Batman franchise took after B&R. It will be the template of what NOT to do. Lana Wachowski recently said The Matrix 4 will deliver what the fans want, and they're aware of what the fans want. That is exactly the type of thing I want to hear, and it gives me a lot of confidence. Lots more for me to say on this topic, but "he's out there right now, and I've got to go to work."

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 23 Jun  2020, 12:36
I just need the character to not get killed off. And people, considering how things played out with Arrowverse's COIE, this is something we should all be mindful of.

Damn straight.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Tue, 23 Jun  2020, 12:06Depending on how Top Gun Maverick turns out, Joseph Kosinski might be a good choice. He has a very strong visual sensibility (Oblivion) and prior experience directing cyberpunk material (Tron: Legacy). He can also handle drama well, as he demonstrated with Only the Brave.

On reflection, I'd rather have Burton direct this so we can formally connect BB with B89 and BR. Burton is an extremely mediocre director these days, and he hasn't made a film I truly loved since Sleepy Hollow. But he was one of my favourite directors when I was a kid, and this might be the project to reawaken some of his former glory.

Here's what I would ideally like to see in the next five years.


If they start filming this early next year, as intended, then Keaton will be 69. But he could probably pass for his early sixties with some good makeup, stunt doubles and a convincing muscle suit. Have it so that Bruce is still actively fighting crime in his winter years. Unlike the Nolan Batman, who retired after just two years (which is fair enough, considering the more realistic take they were going for), make it so that Burton's Batman has been fighting crime nonstop for over thirty years, but is now nearing the point of retirement.


The Golden Age Earth-Two Batman continued fighting crime well into his sixties, so why not Burton's? This would be his last hurrah in the cowl, containing lots of hints about the villains he's defeated during the intervening decades since Batman Returns (trophies relating to Bane, Ra's al Ghul, Hush, etc, could be seen in the Batcave). Also have him drive the Furstmobile one last time. This will be the last Batman film Keaton stars in before he turns 70, so let's make the most of it. Basically have him do everything the Thomas Wayne Batman did in Flashpoint, minus the killing.


If there is a Batman Beyond movie – and there should be, since it's easily a billion+ dollar concept – then it should begin with Keaton hanging up the cowl. By now he'll be in his seventies and should only serve in a mentor capacity as Bruce Wayne. Flashpoint should be his final costumed outing, but Batman Beyond should be his final solo film. I say solo, but of course it would co-star whoever's playing Terry McGinnis.


I would like Burton to be involved for the reasons I previously stated. Get a good cinematographer and have Elfman return to write the score. I don't mind the idea of Keaton's Bruce mentoring Batgirl as well, but I'd like that and Batman Beyond to be two separate movies. Batman Beyond should be a dark gothic cyberpunk film that serves as the concluding chapter of the Burton trilogy.


It would be fun to see Keaton's Batman meet Superman and the other DC heroes in a Justice League film. I'd have it so Bruce assists the JL from the Watchtower as a strategic advisor. I wouldn't have him wear the suit again at this point, unless its for a single scene during the finale where he dons the Kingdom Come armour. I don't care too much about him appearing in other films like the Batgirl movie, but I would like to see him in at least one JLA film. Even if it's only a cameo

Interestingly, Kevin Smith floated the idea of a Justice League movie centred around an older Bat-Keaton way back in the noughties. Now it might finally happen.


For years we've been lobbying for a comic book series set in the Burtonverse. Now is the perfect time to do it. Let's have an ongoing title that fills in the gaps about what happened between BR and Flashpoint. Let's see the adventures of a young Bat-Keaton as he faces off against villains like the Riddler and Two-Face, or perhaps even a Year One-style prequel set before B89.

If we get something close to what I've described, I'll be beyond content.

Midnight's Edge is reporting a Batman Beyond production is also in the pipeline, possibly for HBO Max.

I've heard some things from the inside. Tidbits. Take from it what you will. Everything is in flux at this point.

1. Keaton does not want to wear the suit. Claustrophobia

2. The original pitch to Keaton was to cameo at the end as twist on the Flashpoint story IE the Thomas Wayne letter is not deliverable because Batfleck is Keaton now. The intent was and still is to replace Batffleck entirely by making Batman (89)/ Batman Returns canon retroactively and turning Keaton into a Nick Fury style character.

3. Keaton responded by poo pooing Flashpoint Thomas altogether, is said not to understand it at all, and wants to co star as the alternate universe Batman, saying that his Batman is similar enough to the Flashpoint Batman to just omit him and take his place.

4. Keaton is vying for a single go. Warner Brothers wants multiple movies. Once again, they want him to replace Batffleck because after whatever he shoots for Zack Snyder, Ben Affleck is done. This whole Keaton idea came about because they pursued Ben Affleck and he won't budge.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Tue, 23 Jun  2020, 10:26

Quote from: KeatonisBatman on Tue, 23 Jun  2020, 09:46
Wow.  I'm gobsmacked.  This is fantastic news!

Keaton not suiting up (or minimally) would contrast against Pattinson who will be.

I think that's a point of difference of why this would be allowed. It would be interesting to know, if Keaton signs up, how much creative input he'd have. In the Burton films he cut down dialogue. Mark Hamill had his reign as Luke Skywalker tarnished. I'd imagine Michael would want to be confident he's signing up to something worthwhile.

If a Beyond film gets made, it makes you wonder who directs it. Burton? Even if he doesn't, the project has to go ahead, because this opportunity is too good to pass up.

Same goes for Elfman - but his theme has to be there if he's not.

I agree with you on all points.  I'd rather Keaton not do it if he thinks it "sucks"... and boy, don't get even me started on what they did to Luke Skywalker...

Ugh, I read that Umberto Gonzalez is the original source behind this rumour. If that's true then now I'm skeptical that Keaton's return is possible. Gonzalez never believed in the Snyder cut's existence for years and his scoops aren't very accurate.

We'll see, but the wild rumours surrounding Keaton replacing Affleck aren't surprising if it's coming from Gonzalez. I can't see Keaton doing that at his age. Let's not forget he still has contractual obligations to play the Vulture in the MCU and Sony franchises. If the tease at the end of the Morbius trailer is anything to go by, it could be possible that he'll return in another MCU Spider-Man film. Maybe even Sinister Six is back on the cards.

The more I think about it, the more I think he will likely make a simple cameo appearance in The Flash, plus a Batman Beyond adaptation somewhere down the pipeline, and that's it. IF the rumours are true

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Tue, 23 Jun  2020, 20:19
Midnight's Edge is reporting a Batman Beyond production is also in the pipeline, possibly for HBO Max.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpFaP-FqMZs

"Standalone movies are out and connectivity is king"

*sigh*

But honestly, AT&T's acquisition of Time-Warner has thrown everything up into the air. Maybe standalone productions aren't the magic bullet in this new context that they would've been without the buyout. Plus, this could open the door for an Arrowverse-style adoption of previous live action incarnations of various characters: Lois & Clark, Shipp's Flash, etc. At this point, Smallville is probably better off forgotten, considering the events of COIE and Welling being such a gd prima donna.

I maintain that my fanboy muse would prefer standalone, disconnected films tho.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Tue, 23 Jun  2020, 14:43
On reflection, I'd rather have Burton direct this so we can formally connect BB with B89 and BR. Burton is an extremely mediocre director these days, and he hasn't made a film I truly loved since Sleepy Hollow. But he was one of my favourite directors when I was a kid, and this might be the project to reawaken some of his former glory.

I agree. Ideally, this would be the most preferred direction to take. As it would give us a complete Burton trilogy, and being that Keaton and Burton enjoy working together, I'm sure it would be of their preference as well. Unfortunately, as you stated, Burton is very iffy as a director these days. So the overall notion that we would get something of top quality isn't necessarily guaranteed, as it might have been in decades past. Which is unfortunate.

QuoteIf they start filming this early next year, as intended, then Keaton will be 69. But he could probably pass for his early sixties with some good makeup, stunt doubles and a convincing muscle suit. Have it so that Bruce is still actively fighting crime in his winter years. Unlike the Nolan Batman, who retired after just two years (which is fair enough, considering the more realistic take they were going for), make it so that Burton's Batman has been fighting crime nonstop for over thirty years, but is now nearing the point of retirement.

The Golden Age Earth-Two Batman continued fighting crime well into his sixties, so why not Burton's? This would be his last hurrah in the cowl, containing lots of hints about the villains he's defeated during the intervening decades since Batman Returns (trophies relating to Bane, Ra's al Ghul, Hush, etc, could be seen in the Batcave). Also have him drive the Furstmobile one last time. This will be the last Batman film Keaton stars in before he turns 70, so let's make the most of it.

Yeah, I've compared Keaton's Batman with the Golden Age Earth-Two Batman on more than one occasion, and I like your ideas on this. Essentially it would give Keaton's Bats a proper send off much in the same vein as Hugh Jackman's Wolverine with LOGAN. Or to make another comparison, Clint Eastwood with the western genre with Unforgiven. There's a lot of dramatic meat there in terms of story that could be had with a older, beloved version of Batman, which undoubtedly Keaton's Batman is, struggling with his own human limitations, as he takes up the cowl one last time to face a seemingly insurmountable adversary.

Quote

Comics

For years we've been lobbying for a comic book series set in the Burtonverse. Now is the perfect time to do it. Let's have an ongoing title that fills in the gaps about what happened between BR and Flashpoint. Let's see the adventures of a young Bat-Keaton as he faces off against villains like the Riddler and Two-Face, or perhaps even a Year One-style prequel set before B89.

If we get something close to what I've described, I'll be beyond content.

That would be great!

As far as a Batman Beyond scenario goes, I am kinda cool on that, but not exactly dismissive of the idea either. Being someone who is much less of a fan of Batman Beyond compared to that of the Animated Series, it would not be my preferred route to take Keaton's Batman, but I am not completely against it either. There could be an interesting take on the Jokerz gang to explore, as they would have been influenced by Jack Nicholson's Joker with this being in the Burtonverse. The aforementioned idea of a comic book series taking place post-Batman Returns could easily implement this as well if they so choose to.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Tue, 23 Jun  2020, 14:43
On reflection, I'd rather have Burton direct this so we can formally connect BB with B89 and BR. Burton is an extremely mediocre director these days, and he hasn't made a film I truly loved since Sleepy Hollow. But he was one of my favourite directors when I was a kid, and this might be the project to reawaken some of his former glory.

That would be the dream scenario, no doubt about it. But even if it didn't happen, I'd still be mightily pumped to have Keaton back.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Tue, 23 Jun  2020, 14:43
If they start filming this early next year, as intended, then Keaton will be 69. But he could probably pass for his early sixties with some good makeup, stunt doubles and a convincing muscle suit. Have it so that Bruce is still actively fighting crime in his winter years. Unlike the Nolan Batman, who retired after just two years (which is fair enough, considering the more realistic take they were going for), make it so that Burton's Batman has been fighting crime nonstop for over thirty years, but is now nearing the point of retirement.

Oh YES. This would be another dream scenario, further building on what Batfleck portrayed by adding another 10 years to the mileage. An grizzled beast of a man who has seen and done do much, who only stops because his body screams he must stop. But the absolute hunger to be Batman means he continues the war on crime in other ways.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Tue, 23 Jun  2020, 14:43
(https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/f2d914851429d2856bd0dbcf425a44b221d81917bd4ce5d1e7ee1046f0b5e4a7.jpg)

This manip communicates a lot as to why Keaton IS Batman. His body mass is irrelevant because his spirit embodies the DNA of what the character is all about - especially the prep time aspect. It's all in the facial expression. He's aloof, analytical and means business - this is my City. Even if he never wore the cape and cowl again he can bring the energy we all know and love.

It really depends on how much screentime they would devote to him in the Flash film. And exactly what their future plans are, as Gotham Knight claims Keaton wants a single appearance. So much speculation is flying around right now, and it's fun, but it's hard to know what to believe. Right now, I trust Keaton has been approached and it's a real prospect. I'll streamline the hype to focus on that. Fandome will hopefully elaborate further.

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Tue, 23 Jun  2020, 20:49
Keaton responded by poo pooing Flashpoint Thomas altogether, is said not to understand it at all, and wants to co star as the alternate universe Batman, saying that his Batman is similar enough to the Flashpoint Batman to just omit him and take his place.

If so I agree with him. We'd want to see TIM BURTON'S BATMAN, not Keaton as Thomas Wayne or any watered down compromise.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 23 Jun  2020, 22:36
"Standalone movies are out and connectivity is king"

*sigh*

Which is a reason why I'm anticipating the Pattinson film which may become a trilogy. 

I'm starting to feel Affleck in 100% done and won't return in any capacity, and it's still in the enticement stage. I suspect if he ever is enticed it'll be for HBO, and only if Snyder is behind the lens. 

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 24 Jun  2020, 03:34
This manip communicates a lot as to why Keaton IS Batman. His body mass is irrelevant because his spirit embodies the DNA of what the character is all about - especially the prep time aspect. It's all in the facial expression. He's aloof, analytical and means business - this is my City. Even if he never wore the cape and cowl again he can bring the energy we all know and love.

I assume that if he comes back, he won't wear the suit. So it raises the question of if he'll be the sort of scatterbrained Bruce or if he'll play the part like he's Batman but out of costume. Because there was quite a range in his performance, esp in BR.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 24 Jun  2020, 03:34
It really depends on how much screentime they would devote to him in the Flash film. And exactly what their future plans are, as Gotham Knight claims Keaton wants a single appearance. So much speculation is flying around right now, and it's fun, but it's hard to know what to believe. Right now, I trust Keaton has been approached and it's a real prospect. I'll streamline the hype to focus on that. Fandome will hopefully elaborate further.

The sense I've always gotten is that while Keaton didn't want to be involved in BF, he still had more to say about the character and perhaps wasn't ready to leave. Certainly he was willing to return to the character for Superman Lives under Tim Burton.

Obviously, I'm not the talent agent who has to negotiate this sucker. But it's reasonable to think that Keaton wants to come back for something more than a glorified cameo. Presumably, he wants a certain amount of screen time as a non-negotiable condition. And why would the studio object to that? I imagine they're only too happy to grant that request.

Between this Keaton business and ZSJL, I haven't been this Up For The Game with DC films in almost three years.

For the sake of argument, if Michael Keaton just wants to do a one-off returning as Burton's Batman, then it would be imperative to get him to sign on for a starring role, rather than just a cameo appearance, that properly concludes his Batman's journey that started 31 years ago. I would imagine if AT&T/Warners can get Tim Burton himself to participate in the project, perhaps as a collaborator and/or on-hand consultant, it might sweeten the deal for Keaton to sign an agreement. I am, quite frankly, on the fence about Burton directing a third Batman film starring Keaton at this stage in his career, but there's always the possibility that a director can step in and remain respectful to Burton's vision, and visual aesthetics, but at the same time being mindful in presenting a Batman and Gotham that's 30 years removed from where we last left off.

Essentially, a "Batman Continues" with Keaton. Not all that dissimilar to what was proposed with MGM's "Robocop Returns".

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 24 Jun  2020, 03:55
I assume that if he comes back, he won't wear the suit. So it raises the question of if he'll be the sort of scatterbrained Bruce or if he'll play the part like he's Batman but out of costume.

I could foresee the latter. Possibly to the point he evokes Kingdom Come Batman in the sense he views himself as Batman full time, and Bruce Wayne is largely irrelevant. If any live action Batman could be that intense it's Keaton, especially when you consider his role with the company seems less hands on. And if he did have a relationship with Selina, but it fell apart and caused heartache, I can absolutely see the king of brooding embracing the darkness and further shunning any social life he may have reluctantly embraced due to that pairing. The psychology of the Batman world interests me more than the action, even though I do love a big dukeroo.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 24 Jun  2020, 03:55
Between this Keaton business and ZSJL, I haven't been this Up For The Game with DC films in almost three years.

Batman is never really lacking in terms of content. But it's probably the most excitement at one time we've ever had. And that is magnified by the potential of HBO/AT&T. Anything seems possible now.

I'm always rallying against the Hollywood trend for reviving old film franchises to exploit fan nostalgia, but in this one instance – and literally only this one instance – I'm 100% in favour of it. For years, we've congregated on this site to celebrate our shared love of the Keaton Batman era. It was always something we spoke of in the past tense, something we fondly remembered from our childhoods. A shared nostalgia. But now a new Keaton era could be about to begin and it's as though our particular corner of the fandom has finally been validated. That's assuming the whole thing doesn't fall through, of course...

Jett over at Batman-On-Film is saying he knew about this for some time but remained silent for the sake of El Mayimbe and the parties involved in the negotiations. Some details, according to Jett:

---

•   Despite reports that negotiations are ongoing, Jett is saying the deal is done. It's happening. If this is true, I imagine they'll hold off on the official announcement until the DC FanDome event in August. Just think, later this summer Michael Keaton could be the official movie Batman for the first time since his departure was announced in 1994. :)

---

•   As Gotham Knight has already said, they initially wanted Keaton for a cameo but he negotiated a larger role to the point that he's now the co-star of the film. It sounds like it's going to be less of a Flash solo film and more of a Justice League buddy movie starring Batman and the Flash. Jett says he thinks Keaton will wear the suit at some point during the Flashpoint film, but will be playing Bruce Wayne rather than Batman in any subsequent movies. He won't be starring in any solo Batman films.

---

•   Some kind of mentor film is being planned as a follow-up. It might be Batman Beyond, but Jett is saying it could also be more of a TDKR type thing where he mentors Carrie Kelley, or possibly Batgirl or Nightwing, instead of Terry McGinnis. It sounds like they're focusing on Flashpoint at the moment, but something else is in the pipeline. Jett also mentions Kingdom Come as a possibility.

---

•   Keaton is indeed replacing Affleck as the DCEU Batman.

---

Regarding the costume, I'm still confident he'll suit up. Maybe not in the later films, but certainly in the Flashpoint movie. I'm not saying Gotham Knight's source is wrong, because that sounds like something Keaton would say. But if Bat-Keats is indeed co-starring in Flashpoint, then we're going to have to see him in costume for at least some of it. If it's true he's reluctant to wear the suit, then I see three possible ways around the problem:

1)   Keaton wears a lighter and more comfortable suit, possibly enhanced by a post production CG polish. Costume design has evolved over the past three decades and the suit he'd be wearing in 2021 needn't be as heavy or claustrophobic as those he wore in the past. I'm sure they could whip up a lighter and more comfortable costume that still resembles the classic Batsuits on the outside. This would be my first choice, as I want to see Keaton himself playing Batman, not just a stand-in.



2)   They go full motion capture, like Robert Downey Jr's Iron Man suit. I believe they did this for certain shots of Affleck's mech suit in BvS, so there is a precedent. This would be an acceptable alternative that would still allow Keaton to physically play the costumed Batman in most of the scenes that don't entail stunt work. If he really is skittish about donning the suit, then this is probably the most likely solution. If they go this route, I'd expect more of a hi-tech armoured Batsuit compared to what he wore in the earlier films.


3)   They just use stand-ins and digitally map Keaton's face onto their bodies. This would be the worst case scenario for me, as it would mean someone else was actually playing Batman for the entire film, with Keaton only appearing as Bruce Wayne. I've no problem with stunt doubles handling the action, but I want to see Keaton himself in the cowl at some point.

Quote from: The Joker on Wed, 24 Jun  2020, 01:15Yeah, I've compared Keaton's Batman with the Golden Age Earth-Two Batman on more than one occasion, and I like your ideas on this. Essentially it would give Keaton's Bats a proper send off much in the same vein as Hugh Jackman's Wolverine with LOGAN. Or to make another comparison, Clint Eastwood with the western genre with Unforgiven. There's a lot of dramatic meat there in terms of story that could be had with a older, beloved version of Batman, which undoubtedly Keaton's Batman is, struggling with his own human limitations, as he takes up the cowl one last time to face a seemingly insurmountable adversary.

This is exactly what I want to see. Keaton's Batman was basically a fusion of the Earth-Two and Steve Englehart versions, and now it sounds as if he'll be adopting some characteristics of the Flashpoint Batman as well. His version was never limited by realism. He's a superhuman Batman who's so strong he can punch a hole through the floor of the Batmobile or wrench a chunk out of a stone wall with his grapple gun. His kicks and punches send goons flying through the air and he can withstand an insane amount of physical punishment. Even if he has slowed down, this guy would still be fighting crime in his sixties. The Earth-Two Batman was about 64 when he died in the comics, and he was still wearing his costume during his final moments. Keaton could easily pass for 64 in the Flashpoint movie, and he should still be actively protecting Gotham.

I don't mind him ditching the suit and taking a backseat mentor role in later films. But if the reports are true, and he is co-starring in Flashpoint, then this is effectively Keaton's long-awaited third Batman movie. In which case I want him back in the suit and cracking skulls like he did in his prime.

Quote from: The Joker on Wed, 24 Jun  2020, 05:14

For the sake of argument, if Michael Keaton just wants to do a one-off returning as Burton's Batman, then it would be imperative to get him to sign on for a starring role, rather than just a cameo appearance, that properly concludes his Batman's journey that started 31 years ago. I would imagine if AT&T/Warners can get Tim Burton himself to participate in the project, perhaps as a collaborator and/or on-hand consultant, it might sweeten the deal for Keaton to sign an agreement. I am, quite frankly, on the fence about Burton directing a third Batman film starring Keaton at this stage in his career, but there's always the possibility that a director can step in and remain respectful to Burton's vision, and visual aesthetics, but at the same time being mindful in presenting a Batman and Gotham that's 30 years removed from where we last left off.

Essentially, a "Batman Continues" with Keaton. Not all that dissimilar to what was proposed with MGM's "Robocop Returns".

It's starting to sound like Flashpoint will basically be the third Burton Batman movie, except without Burton's involvement. Maybe they could give him a perfunctory producer's credit like they did on Batman Forever, just to tie the new film more closely to the old ones?

The thought of recreating Burton's Gotham, mixing elements from B89 and BR, is almost as tantalising as the prospect of Keaton's return. Just imagine seeing an aging Bat-Keats, dressed in full costume, standing on a gargoyle overlooking the city streets as a dagger-shaped cloud slides ominously across the moon.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 24 Jun  2020, 12:35Batman is never really lacking in terms of content. But it's probably the most excitement at one time we've ever had. And that is magnified by the potential of HBO/AT&T. Anything seems possible now.

I honestly haven't been this excited about the future of DC adaptations since... probably since the Nolan era. I've been pretty burned out on the whole superhero cinematic genre in recent years, but now things are starting to get interesting again. Keaton could be returning as Batman, Raimi's directing Doctor Strange 2, and there are rumours that Charlie Cox might be returning as Daredevil. All we need now is a Lois & Clark revival, RoboCop Returns starring Peter Weller, and a new Superman solo movie starring Henry Cavill. And maybe throw in a live action Into the Spider-Verse film featuring Tobey Maguire.

Jett is an antagonistic, gatekeeping bullsh*t artist who shouldn't even be mentioned on this forum. He thinks he has authority on all things Batman, when in reality he has just some manchild who fanboys over certain interpretations while trashing the whole Batman brand. He knows nothing.

I'll still wait and see whether or not this is happening before I get excited. I don't trust the source of the news.

Who else is rereading Flashpoint right now?

People seem pretty sure that Keaton is coming back as Batman.

It's Ezra Miller coming back as the Flash that it's all of a sudden in question. Turns out choking pregnant women has some downsides, who knew?

I was also thinking of a CG suit. He did wear the Birdman suit for a small period (It appears it was just for a photo op) but I wonder if he'd be ok wearing one for around the same period of time. If they mix Thomas Wayne with Dark Knight Returns, that could be kind of interesting and could also kind of skirt around the suit issues and could maybe spark a Beyond type storyline.
(https://i.postimg.cc/ZYWkH3gN/Untitled-1.png)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OA-W5qtH49E

For CGing over another actor, it's also quite possible and looked good in Birdman. Even Hugh Jackman's finally Wolverine rampage wasn't even him but his face over a stunt double...which still kills me. Hugh is in much better shape than Keaton.
(https://i.postimg.cc/8cXP2SGb/wol.png)

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 24 Jun  2020, 18:40
People seem pretty sure that Keaton is coming back as Batman.

It's Ezra Miller coming back as the Flash that it's all of a sudden in question. Turns out choking pregnant women has some downsides, who knew?

I wouldn't shed a tear if they recast Miller. If this movie goes ahead, I reckon it has an extremely high chance of topping TDKR at the box office to become the highest grossing Batman film ever. As long as it's not a total disaster, it should breeze past the one billion mark. The only other thing that might prevent that from happening is Miller's involvement. I've said this before, but he was horribly miscast as Barry Allen to begin with. I can tolerate his presence if it means getting Keaton back, but it might be smarter to ditch him and cast someone else in the role.

Would anyone really miss him?

Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Wed, 24 Jun  2020, 20:25Hugh is in much better shape than Keaton.

This raises an interesting point. The single biggest criticism of Keaton's Batman, other than his use of lethal force (which is down to the writer and director rather than the actor), is his average height and build. Subsequent Batmen have put more effort into their physical preparation to an extent that reflects poorly on Keaton. I always gave him a pass in this regard, because the novelty of the costume more or less circumvented the problem. But muscle suits are no longer a novelty, and it would be awesome if he could get really jacked for this one film, if only to silence the naysayers.

In light of his age, genetics and past history of physical preparation, I don't see how this would be possible. But it would mean a lot to his fans if he could shape up. I know he's not going to gain any significant muscle mass at his age (unless he gives Sly's HGH dealer a ring...), but he should at least tone up what he's already got and lower his body fat percentage to get rid of any excess flab around his belly. At the absolute minimum, he should have ripped abs. Ideally, it would be great if his trainer could focus on building up his lats, as that can make a huge difference to a man's overall shape. Build up your lats and it makes your chest and shoulders look broader, your waist narrower, and it pushes out your triceps to make your arms look thicker. If Keaton could gain some muscle, then that's the area to focus on. He's got quite a few months to prepare, so let's see what he can do.

Regarding height, I think he's closer to 5'8 than 5'9 these days. That's half a foot shorter than the comic book Batman and about three inches shorter than Ezra Miller. Robert Downey Jr is also about 5'8 but his lifts in The Avengers made him look almost as tall as a 6'0 Chris Evans.


Keaton needs to get a pair of those same lifts. Even if they only boost his height to 5'10 or 5'11, that would be acceptable and would place him at a similar stature to Kilmer and Clooney. I'm not too bothered about whether or not he wears a hairpiece. He wore them in B89 and BR, but since he's meant to be older now it really doesn't matter too much. But it might be good to see him in a non-curly hairpiece that resembles the comic book Bruce's hairstyle.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 24 Jun  2020, 18:40
It's Ezra Miller coming back as the Flash that it's all of a sudden in question. Turns out choking pregnant women has some downsides, who knew?

The best way is to embrace my philosophy of NO LIVES MATTER: you are all equally worthless.

I do recall during the 2005-2012 era, it was 'if you prefer the Burton Batman go and watch those movies, but they're in the past and Nolan is the current business model'. As I said earlier, it's a funny world we live in. It could soon be the opposite situation, with Burton's Batman the current business model, with Bale stuck in the past stuck on three films. And given the self contained nature of that trilogy, it would remain to be seen how a resurrection would take place, and if that creative team would be open to it.

If a Burton Gotham is to be replicated, I'd take either one, but B89 would be the top pick. I have no idea how closely they could evoke what they did in B89, but any differences could be explained with the 30 year time jump.

As for Keaton having to pump iron...I'm honestly not that bothered about that. I'd be totally fine with him resembling the physique he had for the original two films. A modern precedent shouldn't have to dictate he does the same. A new, Kingdom Come type design (opposed to another TDK Returns mech suit) would explain enough, if anything needs explaining in the first place. I've always felt it's the suit that made Keaton a beast, and gave him the ability to do the job. He's on the record saying something similar in the past.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 24 Jun  2020, 22:26

I do recall during the 2005-2012 era, it was 'if you prefer the Burton Batman go and watch those movies, but they're in the past and Nolan is the current business model'.

That's also something I've been thinking. Nolan's films have such a high degree of regard. Unless the tried to get Bale and he declined. They decided to (as we know of right now) is to merge the Burtonverse and not the Nolan one. I think that's kind of interesting (especially if he is replacing Batfleck)

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 24 Jun  2020, 22:02

Regarding height, I think he's closer to 5'8 than 5'9 these days. That's half a foot shorter than the comic book Batman and about three inches shorter than Ezra Miller. Robert Downey Jr is also about 5'8 but his lifts in The Avengers made him look almost as tall as a 6'0 Chris Evans.

I'm about 5'9 and for sure, the only two people who made me feel small when I saw them were Chris Evans and Jason Mamoa (who at some point *arguably* Keaton will be plating up against. But I think the one thing Keaton has that makes up for his size is that crazy spark. I mean, his Batman hadn't shied away from taller/bigger people before.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4jhbs1kHXw
While this scene is controversial, it has to be in my top 5 Batman moments. He can handle himself in the DCEU

Edit: I just had remembered something I said a long time ago. I know Bruce Timm was shedding the Burton connection before Justice League. But I felt that in the New Adventures-Beyond, Batman actually became more "Keaton like" in his approach to things compared to TAS (outside the table stomp in Phantasm).

Edit 2: Isn't it ironic that Ben Affleck's final outing as batman *minus the snider cut* included the resurrection of Keaton's Batman theme.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 24 Jun  2020, 22:02Would anyone really miss him?

Eh. I understand the dynamic that he brings to JL. Batman is the grim avenger with a mission, Wonder Woman is the warrior princess with intel (and a vision!), Cyborg is the tech who sees how the pieces fit together, Aquaman is the boy who would be king who wants to be just another guy so Miller's Flash as an awkward nerd adds a needed dynamic to the mix. It's logical and I get it.

But a whole movie of that? Either Miller would have to play the character a different way or else he'd annoy the entire audience fifteen minutes in.

I'm not as down on Miller on some people are. But if, aside from ZSJL, the Snyderverse is getting abandoned then I don't see any real point in keeping Miller around. Especially when he's already attracted acid bath media coverage. At this point, it might be better to part ways with him and find somebody else.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 24 Jun  2020, 22:02
This raises an interesting point. The single biggest criticism of Keaton's Batman, other than his use of lethal force (which is down to the writer and director rather than the actor), is his average height and build. Subsequent Batmen have put more effort into their physical preparation to an extent that reflects poorly on Keaton. I always gave him a pass in this regard, because the novelty of the costume more or less circumvented the problem. But muscle suits are no longer a novelty, and it would be awesome if he could get really jacked for this one film, if only to silence the naysayers.

In light of his age, genetics and past history of physical preparation, I don't see how this would be possible. But it would mean a lot to his fans if he could shape up. I know he's not going to gain any significant muscle mass at his age (unless he gives Sly's HGH dealer a ring...), but he should at least tone up what he's already got and lower his body fat percentage to get rid of any excess flab around his belly. At the absolute minimum, he should have ripped abs. Ideally, it would be great if his trainer could focus on building up his lats, as that can make a huge difference to a man's overall shape. Build up your lats and it makes your chest and shoulders look broader, your waist narrower, and it pushes out your triceps to make your arms look thicker. If Keaton could gain some muscle, then that's the area to focus on. He's got quite a few months to prepare, so let's see what he can do.

Regarding height, I think he's closer to 5'8 than 5'9 these days. That's half a foot shorter than the comic book Batman and about three inches shorter than Ezra Miller. Robert Downey Jr is also about 5'8 but his lifts in The Avengers made him look almost as tall as a 6'0 Chris Evans.

(https://i0.wp.com/www.4ye.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Marvel-CapTony-e1440787386983.jpg?resize=640%2C426)

Keaton needs to get a pair of those same lifts. Even if they only boost his height to 5'10 or 5'11, that would be acceptable and would place him at a similar stature to Kilmer and Clooney. I'm not too bothered about whether or not he wears a hairpiece. He wore them in B89 and BR, but since he's meant to be older now it really doesn't matter too much. But it might be good to see him in a non-curly hairpiece that resembles the comic book Bruce's hairstyle.

I understand all that. I'll even say it makes sense. But Keaton as Batman is one of those cases where I have no objectivity. Him returning to the role is all I need. I don't need him to be shredded or do a lot of toning or whatever. He nailed the character back in 1989 and I know he'll deliver the goods this time too.

Keaton can say what he likes about only wanting one appearance as Batman. But take a look around, the good will and excitement that this announcement has generated is insane. This level of buzz is surely enough to get all parties involved a little more motivated to make a deal.

Michael Keaton's physical build is of little concern to me.

The guy looked physically fit in Birdman, and if his build is anywhere similar to that for his return as Batman, that is more than sufficient. At this stage, Keaton's Batman would have been coping with growing physical limitations for some time now, and it's a detail that, ideally, should be highlighted. Course this was addressed with Bale's Batman needing a mechanical knee brace in DKR, and I believe Batfleck also made a remark about his own body breaking down being of some concern in Josstice League.

Rather than focusing on Keaton's physical build, I would rather see his return as Batman emphasize his valorous internal drive in remaining vigilant as Gotham's guardian. That in spite of his physical set backs, Bruce's undying commitment to the mission that he thrust upon himself decades ago, burns as bright as ever.

Just to clarify my previous post, I wasn't suggesting Keaton should be obligated to get jacked. If he shows up and plays the role exactly as he did before, I'll be perfectly content. I'm supporting him 100% either way. I'm just saying that the option's there to build on what he did in 1989 and 1992 and address some of the criticisms that certain quarters have directed towards his Batman. Speaking as someone who spent an unhealthy amount of time debating 'Baleheads' between 2005 and 2012, one of the biggest criticisms that kept cropping up was Keaton's lack of physical commitment to a character that's meant to be in peak physical condition. Actors generally like to challenge themselves, and judging from his more recent work Keaton's no exception. He's demonstrated a willingness to get in shape in the past – for example, Desperate Measures – and doing so now might help him re-engage with the physical side of the character.


Nowadays superhero actors are expected to resemble the characters they're portraying, and this has led to the custom of the so-called 'validation scene'. Audiences won't necessarily expect Keaton to comply with this tradition on account of his advancing years. But if he did, it might help lay to rest some of the more persistent criticisms of his interpretation. How many Affleck sceptics changed their tune when they saw the training scene in BvS? In Batman 89 Knox describes Batman as being six feet tall. This time he could actually look six feet tall. He could resemble the Bruce Wayne from the comics more closely than he did in his youth. It all depends how committed Keaton is to the physical side of the role. No one expects him to go as far as Bale or Affleck did. However if he did get in shape – and his physique in Birdman would be fine – then it would help sell his incarnation to the younger fans that have been reared on the Nolan and Snyder Batmen. They won't share our loyalty towards Keaton's iteration, and this might help win them over.

Again, I'm not saying Keaton should feel obligated to do this or that I'll be disappointed if he doesn't. I'm just saying he has a unique opportunity to build on his earlier performances and perfect his version of Batman. He only had about two months to train for Batman 89, but he's got well over six months to prepare for Flashpoint before filming is scheduled to commence. It's up to him how he uses that time. I want to see the mental and intellectual aspects of the character represented as much as everyone else, but Bruce Wayne is meant to have trained his mind and his body to peak condition. The cerebral and physical aspects of the character are not mutually exclusive. We can have both. We already know Keaton can be psychologically credible in the role. Given the choice between a Bruce who's in shape and one who isn't, I'd prefer one who is. But it's not a deal breaker. I'll be thrilled to see Keaton return, no matter what shape he's in.

Quote from: The Joker on Thu, 25 Jun  2020, 00:56
Rather than focusing on Keaton's physical build, I would rather see his return as Batman emphasize his valorous internal drive in remaining vigilant as Gotham's guardian. That in spite of his physical set backs, Bruce's undying commitment to the mission that he thrust upon himself decades ago, burns as bright as ever.

Indeed. Never underestimate the power of the brooding man. The suspicious man who has cameras behind windows (Knox and Vale), records conversations ("anonymous tip, Napier's cleaning out Axis Chemicals" or jams signals (BR's Penguin army). It would be right up Keaton's alley to control drones and the like from the cave, if that route was ever taken.   

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 24 Jun  2020, 23:35Keaton can say what he likes about only wanting one appearance as Batman. But take a look around, the good will and excitement that this announcement has generated is insane. This level of buzz is surely enough to get all parties involved a little more motivated to make a deal.

I think it would be best to go all out with Keaton for the Flash film, regardless of future plans. He's thought of as a legend already, but it's incalculable just how high his standing would rise if this deal was made.

Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Wed, 24 Jun  2020, 22:44
Edit 2: Isn't it ironic that Ben Affleck's final outing as batman *minus the snider cut* included the resurrection of Keaton's Batman theme.

Imagine if Elfman does return and also uses his Josstice League Flash theme.

I saw this manip of how Keaton's face would like now if he were to don the cowl again, using this screenshot from BR.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbObo70WAAASd68?format=jpg&name=large)

Sure, it might be a cheap edit that lacks shadows and contrast, but regardless, I'm convinced he still looks youthful enough in the Batsuit. Even if he wouldn't wear the costume for real, I suppose it's hypothetically possible to digitally add his face without de-aging him too much.

But whether this rumour of him returning under any capacity is true remains to be seen.

Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Thu, 25 Jun  2020, 03:57
I saw this manip of how Keaton's face would like now if he were to don the cowl again, using this screenshot from BR.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbObo70WAAASd68?format=jpg&name=large)

Sure, it might be a cheap edit that lacks shadows and contrast, but regardless, I'm convinced he still looks youthful enough in the Batsuit. Even if he wouldn't wear the costume for real, I suppose it's hypothetically possible to digitally add his face without de-aging him too much.

But whether this rumour of him returning under any capacity is true remains to be seen.

Literally putting on the outfit could be asking for trouble these days, esp when mo-cap isn't as probably safer for someone Keaton's age and also it isn't as ridiculously expensive as it was even just ten years ago. I can't make any predictions but I'd imagine at least some of the suit (if he wears it) (which I'm secretly hoping he won't) would require CG substitutions of some kind. The chest plate, the cape and the cowl, especially. And if you're mo-capping/CG'ing that much of the suit, why not go the full nine with it and digitally create the entire thing?

It still kills me that most of the capes are CG in these new films. I get why but...

edit: I'm watching the animated Dark Knight returns film and I think there is a lot that they can use that could work with this Batman. Using the smoke to have the shadows show the fight
https://youtu.be/p33btd7czKo?t=221
and I'd also love to see this with Keaton
https://youtu.be/RtTLpPIlaao?t=43

It's not too far off how he was in Axis chemicals, which is why I probably love this so much. But artistic liberty to have Keaton do stuff (He did more in Returns than 89 so there is also that to consider) and not have it all be stunt doubles and CG.

Someone else has made the point that WB will want Keaton in the suit for at least one scene, if only for merchandising reasons. They'll want to sell action figures and other toys based on his Batman. If it was a CW show, then I'd expect him to spend the entire film in civilian clothes. But with this being a big budget movie, I'm almost certain he'll don the cowl at least once. Even if it's just mo-cap.

Here are some images courtesy of Instagram user that_flash_guy: https://www.instagram.com/that_flash_guy/?utm_source=ig_embed


For what it's worth, I've seen another person online with an inside source – one that's been correct in the past – claiming that the deal is done and that Keaton's on board. This person is also claiming that one of Keaton's terms was that Tim Burton be hired to direct the Batman Beyond project.

There's a lot of speculation that the BB film will focus on Bruce mentoring Batgirl rather than McGinnis. If this is so, then which Batgirl should it be? Obviously it won't be Barbara Wilson, as she'll no longer be part of the Burtonverse (to be honest, that actually makes me a little sad). Some fans are saying it should be Bruce and Selina's daughter or granddaughter. In keeping with the Earth-Two comparisons, they could draw inspiration from the Pre-Crisis Helena Wayne. Or should they just base her on Barbara Gordon and make her the granddaughter of the late Commissioner Gordon?

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu, 25 Jun  2020, 11:18
For what it's worth, I've seen another person online with an inside source – one that's been correct in the past – claiming that the deal is done and that Keaton's on board. This person is also claiming that one of Keaton's terms was that Tim Burton be hired to direct the Batman Beyond project.

Man. If this actually happened my head would spin.

Keaton, Bale and Affleck are men who are very loyal to their respective directors. I could see Burton's possible return at least being raised by Keaton if he was genuinely interested in making The Big Comeback. His modern work hasn't set my world on fire, but I feel that Burton would rise to the occasion if he indeed made another Batman movie. Throw in Danny Elfman and the band would be back together. And to be absolutely clear, I was critical of Elfman IN THE CONTEXT OF AFFLECK'S BATMAN. For Keaton? Go all out with that classic theme. That's where it belongs.

Gotta keep a lid on expectation, but it's hard not to get carried away with excitement. Adam West is John Wayne, and Michael Keaton is Clint Eastwood.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu, 25 Jun  2020, 11:18
There's a lot of speculation that the BB film will focus on Bruce mentoring Batgirl rather than McGinnis. If this is so, then which Batgirl should it be? Obviously it won't be Barbara Wilson, as she'll no longer be part of the Burtonverse (to be honest, that actually makes me a little sad). Some fans are saying it should be Bruce and Selina's daughter or granddaughter. In keeping with the Earth-Two comparisons, they could draw inspiration from the Pre-Crisis Helena Wayne. Or should they just base her on Barbara Gordon and make her the granddaughter of the late Commissioner Gordon?

Hmm. I'd have to give more thought as to who exactly it should be, but as said, I'd be okay with Batgirl serving this function.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 25 Jun  2020, 11:45

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu, 25 Jun  2020, 11:18
For what it's worth, I've seen another person online with an inside source – one that's been correct in the past – claiming that the deal is done and that Keaton's on board. This person is also claiming that one of Keaton's terms was that Tim Burton be hired to direct the Batman Beyond project.

Man. If this actually happened my head would spin.

Keaton, Bale and Affleck are men who are very loyal to their respective directors. I could see Burton's possible return at least being raised by Keaton if he was genuinely interested in making The Big Comeback. His modern work hasn't set my world on fire, but I feel that Burton would rise to the occasion if he indeed made another Batman movie. Throw in Danny Elfman and the band would be back together. And to be absolutely clear, I was critical of Elfman IN THE CONTEXT OF AFFLECK'S BATMAN. For Keaton? Go all out with that classic theme. That's where it belongs.

Gotta keep a lid on expectation, but it's hard not to get carried away with excitement. Adam West is John Wayne, and Michael Keaton is Clint Eastwood.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu, 25 Jun  2020, 11:18
There's a lot of speculation that the BB film will focus on Bruce mentoring Batgirl rather than McGinnis. If this is so, then which Batgirl should it be? Obviously it won't be Barbara Wilson, as she'll no longer be part of the Burtonverse (to be honest, that actually makes me a little sad). Some fans are saying it should be Bruce and Selina's daughter or granddaughter. In keeping with the Earth-Two comparisons, they could draw inspiration from the Pre-Crisis Helena Wayne. Or should they just base her on Barbara Gordon and make her the granddaughter of the late Commissioner Gordon?

Hmm. I'd have to give more thought as to who exactly it should be, but as said, I'd be okay with Batgirl serving this function.

I heard that rumor about Keaton preferring Burton's return. Originally, I was prepared to put that down to fanboy wishful thinking.

But the more I think about it, the more the notion of Batman mentoring McGinnis or Batgirl might actually play strongly to Burton's preferences these days. If what we were talking about was yet another outing with Keaton as a driven avenger of the night in a nightmare fairy tale world, idk if Burton is that guy anymore. But Batman as a sorta mentor figure to a young person would be a good bridge between Burton's two worlds.

Interesting idea, I must say.

Generally speaking, I'm guessing being a mentor would be the hook that appeals to Keaton, offering him the point of difference to what he's already done with B89/BR. Some actors need that type of mental justification before committing to roles, especially after so much time has passed. What's new? Why is this interesting? I can see Keaton asking those types of questions. His Batman never had a Robin under his wing, despite plans for that to happen. He doesn't NEED this movie, but if the option is there, being a mentor represents 'unfinished business'.

Why are the BOF guys acting like they're at a funeral?

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu, 25 Jun  2020, 11:18For what it's worth, I've seen another person online with an inside source – one that's been correct in the past – claiming that the deal is done and that Keaton's on board. This person is also claiming that one of Keaton's terms was that Tim Burton be hired to direct the Batman Beyond project.

Midnight's Edge's source, Mikey Sutton, is backing this up. He also claims the long-term plan is for the Batman Beyond movie to be a live action remake of Return of the Joker, with Tim Burton directing and Johnny Depp replacing Nicholson as the resurrected Joker.


Burton and Depp are not presently a lock, but numerous inside sources are claiming Keaton is. It sounds like AT&T want Keaton to lure in Burton, then Burton to bring in Depp.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 25 Jun  2020, 12:24And to be absolutely clear, I was critical of Elfman IN THE CONTEXT OF AFFLECK'S BATMAN. For Keaton? Go all out with that classic theme. That's where it belongs.

This is perfectly understandable. I regard Elfman's Batman theme as definitive, but I also appreciate that they'd already established a different theme for Affleck's Batman in BvS. That theme should have been used in Justice League. It would be like hiring Elliot Goldenthal to score Flashpoint and having him use the Schumacher theme instead of Elfman's.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 25 Jun  2020, 12:24But the more I think about it, the more the notion of Batman mentoring McGinnis or Batgirl might actually play strongly to Burton's preferences these days. If what we were talking about was yet another outing with Keaton as a driven avenger of the night in a nightmare fairy tale world, idk if Burton is that guy anymore. But Batman as a sorta mentor figure to a young person would be a good bridge between Burton's two worlds.

Interesting idea, I must say.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 25 Jun  2020, 12:37
Generally speaking, I'm guessing being a mentor would be the hook that appeals to Keaton, offering him the point of difference to what he's already done with B89/BR. Some actors need that type of mental justification before committing to roles, especially after so much time has passed. What's new? Why is this interesting? I can see Keaton asking those types of questions. His Batman never had a Robin under his wing, despite plans for that to happen. He doesn't NEED this movie, but if the option is there, being a mentor represents 'unfinished business'.

Parent-child relationships are a common theme in much of Burton's 21st century output. His best film from the past two decades, Big Fish, was all about that subject. Ever since he became a father, an increasing number of his movies have also featured child or teen actors in lead roles. Batman Beyond might play to his strengths in this regard. Who knows? Maybe 2020 could mark the beginning of a new era for Burton. He was great in the first two decades of his career before declining in the second two. We're now at the beginning of a brand new decade. Perhaps he'll finally get his second wind.

Having Bruce mentor a young hero would also allow them to revisit Batman's own back story in flashbacks and fill in the gaps. Keaton praised Nolan for doing this in Batman Begins and said he wanted to do something similar in Batman III. Now they can. As Bruce is training his protégé, they could include flashbacks to his own training. They could show how he came to terms with his parents' deaths and decided to become Batman, interweaving parallel narratives from past and present to highlight the similarities between Bruce and his successor. I suspect this is what Keaton really wants to do.

He already played a similar badass mentor role in American Assassin (2017). I happened to watch this at the start of the year, and while it's a pretty average action movie, it's still worth seeing if you're a Keaton fan.

Interesting about Depp. TCould Flashpoint possibly be a days of future past thing where, like Logan, Bruce's whole timeline changes a bit but he's aware of the changes or maybe like in Justice League Unlimted
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PETk8eBbfN0

Brining in Depp as Joker (if true) is kind of interesting but I feel like some changes to the Burton Universe would have to happen (maybe a melding of Burton DCEU Batman into one new timeline?) Or Keaton playing an alternate Universe to his 89 counterpart? It will take some getting use too if they get Joker back and it not being Jack Nicolson (which I am ok with since he's retired) tho I kinda wanna see Leonardo Decaprio fill in for Jack

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu, 25 Jun  2020, 11:18
For what it's worth, I've seen another person online with an inside source – one that's been correct in the past – claiming that the deal is done and that Keaton's on board. This person is also claiming that one of Keaton's terms was that Tim Burton be hired to direct the Batman Beyond project.

  :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

QuoteThere's a lot of speculation that the BB film will focus on Bruce mentoring Batgirl rather than McGinnis. If this is so, then which Batgirl should it be? Obviously it won't be Barbara Wilson, as she'll no longer be part of the Burtonverse (to be honest, that actually makes me a little sad). Some fans are saying it should be Bruce and Selina's daughter or granddaughter. In keeping with the Earth-Two comparisons, they could draw inspiration from the Pre-Crisis Helena Wayne. Or should they just base her on Barbara Gordon and make her the granddaughter of the late Commissioner Gordon?

I've had some thoughts about this, and man oh man, there's some potential story telling with that one. If they go with a Burtonized Helena Wayne (which I would generally prefer since I like that Earth-Two stuff and never really liked the Post-Crisis Bertinelli Huntress all that much), there could be some interesting drama there in terms of Helena's upbringing. Perhaps she's estranged from both her parents? The possibility that both Bruce and Selina had a very rocky, on-off again relationship certainly isn't out of the realm of possibility. People are not perfect, mistakes were made, and dysfunction was, unfortunately, always present. You could also have it where Helena considers Michael Gough's Alfred her "family" due to him being much more attentive to her as a child. Giving her a figure of stability before his eventual passing (which would be a call back to 1989 with Alfred being established as a warm fatherly figure thru dialogue.). Then there's the Batman Beyond scenario focusing upon Keaton's Batman (and maybe even Selina herself as well) addressing the mistakes they made in her upbringing and righting those wrongs....   

I'm typing this out pretty fast right now, but man, the potential is ripe with that one.

Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Thu, 25 Jun  2020, 21:43
Brining in Depp as Joker (if true) is kind of interesting but I feel like some changes to the Burton Universe would have to happen (maybe a melding of Burton DCEU Batman into one new timeline?) Or Keaton playing an alternate Universe to his 89 counterpart? It will take some getting use too if they get Joker back and it not being Jack Nicolson (which I am ok with since he's retired) tho I kinda wanna see Leonardo Decaprio fill in for Jack

I'm pretty much in the same boat. I recall reading some press interview that Jack Nicholson, Matt Damon, Leo Dicaprio, and Martin Scorsese did for The Departed, and Jack came across like he had a lot of affinity for Leo. If I recall correctly, Leo was a bit late for the interview, and upon arriving, Jack welcomed him by exclaiming, "Leo, my boy!".

Nothing against Depp, and we all know one of Burton's favorite actors to work with is Johnny Depp, but right now I feel that Leo might be able to capture Jack's mannerisms, and quirks a bit better overall.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu, 25 Jun  2020, 15:08
Midnight's Edge's source, Mikey Sutton, is backing this up. He also claims the long-term plan is for the Batman Beyond movie to be a live action remake of Return of the Joker, with Tim Burton directing and Johnny Depp replacing Nicholson as the resurrected Joker.

I don't follow YouTubers, so can you say how credible these people are? What's their track record like?

This was last time:

QuoteNeither Tim Burton nor Michael Keaton had been signed up in advance for a sequel. Burton came on-board only after the script met all of his demands (he hadn't been entirely happy with Batman (1989)'s screenplay), while Keaton only agreed to do the second film after a serious hike in salary, and Burton's assurance that it would be mostly a stand-alone movie rather than a direct sequel.

You never know...

It's weird because I had seen Johnny Depp as the Joker talk on the net months back. I completely dismissed it.

Here's one article from March 5, 2020 after a quick search:
https://www.gq.com.au/entertainment/film-tv/johnny-depp-is-apparently-lined-up-as-the-next-joker-and-just-why/news-story/68e2f29ab2d516f3f86611b824009930

Kevin Smith spoke about Depp earlier this year, too:
https://screenrant.com/batman-movie-johnny-depp-joker-cast-kevin-smith/

It's logical they assumed the talk was about Pattinson's trilogy. I mean, who of a sane mind would ever think Tim Burton and Michael Keaton would be plotting a comeback? Say what you want about Depp, but he's a Burton regular, and IF he appeared it would undoubtedly be a Tim Burton film. Imagine if the Joker came back in zombie spirit transferral or something of that nature. I'm totally up for these ideas.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu, 25 Jun  2020, 15:08
Having Bruce mentor a young hero would also allow them to revisit Batman's own back story in flashbacks and fill in the gaps. Keaton praised Nolan for doing this in Batman Begins and said he wanted to do something similar in Batman III. Now they can. As Bruce is training his protégé, they could include flashbacks to his own training. They could show how he came to terms with his parents' deaths and decided to become Batman, interweaving parallel narratives from past and present to highlight the similarities between Bruce and his successor. I suspect this is what Keaton really wants to do.

So true.

A Return of the Joker adaption could also touch upon unused concepts from Batman Returns, such as villains invading the Batcave. That happening against an older BatKeaton would be more palatable and believable.

Since we're talking about Batman Beyond rumours, some scooper reckons AT&T wants to get it made and release it on HBO Max to take advantage of "90s nostalgia".

https://www.google.com/amp/s/boundingintocomics.com/2020/06/24/rumor-michael-keatons-talks-include-more-than-one-dc-movie-batman-beyond-could-be-one/amp/

Interestingly, Marlon Wayans has signed a contract with HBO Max for multiple projects. Imagine if he got the chance to finally play Robin. He may be pushing 50, but if IIRC, the Crisis on Infinite Earths comics had an older Earth 2 Robin.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/deadline.com/2020/06/hbo-max-signs-overall-deal-with-marlon-wayans-sets-pilot-order-for-comedy-book-of-marlon-greenlights-stand-up-specials-1202969990/amp/

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Thu, 25 Jun  2020, 14:40
Why are the BOF guys acting like they're at a funeral?

It's kind of their thing. Jett defined the culture of that page a long time ago. Regarding Batman Returns, Jett said (paraphrased) "That just ain't Batman". Because anything that falls outside his narrow, shallow experience with the character is obviously "wrong" or something. The guy exemplified the NPC meme before there ever was an NPC meme.

Every fandom has a completely unbearable contingent. Jett leads that contingent of Batman fans. As is his right, he has staffed his website and forum accordingly. I have as much bad history with that guy as anybody. And, might I say, more bad history than most. So I don't pretend to be objective here. But I've gotten more peeks behind the BOF curtain than I ever wanted and it's not a pretty picture.

If this is a DCEU project I think it makes more sense to be on the big screen.

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Thu, 25 Jun  2020, 14:40
Why are the BOF guys acting like they're at a funeral?

Ha. I know what you mean. Some people went so hard all in with Nolan. Everyone here knows the competitive juice between the two camps, especially in those days. I think it died down in recent years, but what happens now? It's just so mind warping that the game seems to have flipped completely the other way. I like lots of Batman interpretations, but if true, this is now OUR time.

TDK Returns and B89 changed Batman forever. I now have the Definitive History of the Dark Knight book (which Keaton provides the foreword to) and thankfully it really stresses that point. Without that era the brand wouldn't be what it is now - period. It was a golden era. Burton inspired BTAS – it would be fitting in a full circle way if Return of the Joker inspires a new Keaton Batman movie.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 25 Jun  2020, 22:34
I don't follow YouTubers, so can you say how credible these people are? What's their track record like?

Midnight's Edge has been pretty solid. I think they made their bones with Trank's Fant4stic but they aired more reports and spoilers about TROS than just about anybody else. The culture of that channel is mostly fact-based reporting where rumors are blatantly labeled as rumors. It tends to attract disenfranchised fans who resent being shown the door in whatever their fandom of choice was. All in all, Midnight's Edge is one of the best fan-focused YouTube channels going these days.

As to Sutton, he reported that Snyder was coming back to JL last year. And nobody believed him. Needless to say, his stock has risen considerably since the ZSJL announcement. So far, I don't have much experience with him but every report I've seen attributed to him has come true.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 26 Jun  2020, 01:52

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Thu, 25 Jun  2020, 14:40
Why are the BOF guys acting like they're at a funeral?

It's kind of their thing. Jett defined the culture of that page a long time ago. Regarding Batman Returns, Jett said (paraphrased) "That just ain't Batman". Because anything that falls outside his narrow, shallow experience with the character is obviously "wrong" or something. The guy exemplified the NPC meme before there ever was an NPC meme.

Every fandom has a completely unbearable contingent. Jett leads that contingent of Batman fans. As is his right, he has staffed his website and forum accordingly. I have as much bad history with that guy as anybody. And, might I say, more bad history than most. So I don't pretend to be objective here. But I've gotten more peeks behind the BOF curtain than I ever wanted and it's not a pretty picture.

That's right! It's funny that I didn't remember that, but now that you mention it I do recall when I was more active on the site that BOF had a serious myopia problem, but then again so did I. I'm much more kumbaya, there is room for all my lord! these days. Reading the Bat comics books seriously from the start without an agenda facilitated a better understanding of the material and how fluid it truly is. One stops coveting the character. I guess BOF never got over it.

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Fri, 26 Jun  2020, 13:41

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 26 Jun  2020, 01:52

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Thu, 25 Jun  2020, 14:40
Why are the BOF guys acting like they're at a funeral?

It's kind of their thing. Jett defined the culture of that page a long time ago. Regarding Batman Returns, Jett said (paraphrased) "That just ain't Batman". Because anything that falls outside his narrow, shallow experience with the character is obviously "wrong" or something. The guy exemplified the NPC meme before there ever was an NPC meme.

Every fandom has a completely unbearable contingent. Jett leads that contingent of Batman fans. As is his right, he has staffed his website and forum accordingly. I have as much bad history with that guy as anybody. And, might I say, more bad history than most. So I don't pretend to be objective here. But I've gotten more peeks behind the BOF curtain than I ever wanted and it's not a pretty picture.

That's right! It's funny that I didn't remember that, but now that you mention it I do recall when I was more active on the site that BOF had a serious myopia problem, but then again so did I. I'm much more kumbaya, there is room for all my lord! these days. Reading the Bat comics books seriously from the start without an agenda facilitated a better understanding of the material and how fluid it truly is. One stops coveting the character. I guess BOF never got over it.

One other thing is that Jett was the original "Nolanite". At their worst, the Nolan contingent of fans basically rejected any other incarnation of Batman. They could be pretty obnoxious about it and they believed at the time (with some justification) that Nolan's version or something comparable to it would define all of Batman's live action incarnations from that point forward. Finally, the thinking seemed to go, we can stick with realism and put this fantasy nonsense to bed for good.

Then came Batfleck. Nolan wrapped up his story and Bale wasn't even talked to about coming to the DCEU. And now Keaton looks all but sure to return?

Yeah, I can see where events of recent years must've really shat in their cornflakes.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 25 Jun  2020, 22:34
I don't follow YouTubers, so can you say how credible these people are? What's their track record like?

Midnight's Edge is one of the best channels on YouTube for accurate reporting on controversial movie and TV-related matters. For example, during the Ghostbusters debacle of 2016 they regularly uploaded videos chronicling Sony's every misstep and presented evidence to disprove the media narrative that was painting the fans in a negative light. They've provided similar coverage of the problems plaguing the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy and other contentious pop culture events. They tend to highlight perspectives that the mainstream press routinely overlook.

Quote from: The Joker on Thu, 25 Jun  2020, 22:15I've had some thoughts about this, and man oh man, there's some potential story telling with that one. If they go with a Burtonized Helena Wayne (which I would generally prefer since I like that Earth-Two stuff and never really liked the Post-Crisis Bertinelli Huntress all that much), there could be some interesting drama there in terms of Helena's upbringing. Perhaps she's estranged from both her parents? The possibility that both Bruce and Selina had a very rocky, on-off again relationship certainly isn't out of the realm of possibility. People are not perfect, mistakes were made, and dysfunction was, unfortunately, always present. You could also have it where Helena considers Michael Gough's Alfred her "family" due to him being much more attentive to her as a child. Giving her a figure of stability before his eventual passing (which would be a call back to 1989 with Alfred being established as a warm fatherly figure thru dialogue.). Then there's the Batman Beyond scenario focusing upon Keaton's Batman (and maybe even Selina herself as well) addressing the mistakes they made in her upbringing and righting those wrongs....   

I'm typing this out pretty fast right now, but man, the potential is ripe with that one.

I'm digging all of these ideas. I also prefer the Pre-Crisis Helena over the Post-Crisis version. I'm a huge fan of the Earth-Two canon in general, including the Bronze Age stories surrounding Bruce and Selina's marriage, Batman's death and the origins of the Huntress. If you look back over all of our features and discussions concerning the similarities between Burton's Batman and the comics, you'll see the Earth-Two stories get brought up time and time again. The similarities might be coincidental, but they exist all the same.


And yes, Bruce is unmasking to reveal his secret identity to Selina in that last panel, just like he does in the film.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 26 Jun  2020, 01:52Jett defined the culture of that page a long time ago. Regarding Batman Returns, Jett said (paraphrased) "That just ain't Batman".

In fairness to Jett, I think he stopped saying that not long after I posted the comic-to-screen comparisons with Catwoman: Her Sister's Keeper back in 2008. This could be my ego talking, but I'm pretty sure I was the first fan to dredge up that otherwise long-forgotten comic and make a big deal about the similarities. After the scans I uploaded started circulating, Jett did acknowledge the similarities in one of his articles or podcasts. I forget which it was now, but I recall him specifically namedropping HSK very soon after we posted one of the comic-to-screen features. It was either the Batman Returns one (https://www.batman-online.com/features/2009/1/2/possible-influences-of-comics-on-tim-burtons-batman-returns) or the Pfeiffer's Cat article (https://www.batman-online.com/features/2012/5/29/comic-analysis-michelle-pfeiffer-catwoman). I forget which. But I remember he stopped saying "Batman Returns is not Batman" and started saying "I still hate the movie, but I acknowledge it takes elements from the comics and is a legitimate interpretation". Which is a slight improvement.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 26 Jun  2020, 02:34Ha. I know what you mean. Some people went so hard all in with Nolan. Everyone here knows the competitive juice between the two camps, especially in those days. I think it died down in recent years, but what happens now? It's just so mind warping that the game seems to have flipped completely the other way. I like lots of Batman interpretations, but if true, this is now OUR time.

Nolan fans circa 2005: "I get it. The Burton films were part of your childhood and you love Keaton's Batman for nostalgic reasons. But you've got to let go of the past and accept that Bale is the new Batman."

Burton fans circa 2021: "I get it. The Nolan films were part of your childhood and you love Bale's Batman for nostalgic reasons. But you've got to let go of the past and accept that Keaton is the new Batman."

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 26 Jun  2020, 02:43As to Sutton, he reported that Snyder was coming back to JL last year. And nobody believed him. Needless to say, his stock has risen considerably since the ZSJL announcement. So far, I don't have much experience with him but every report I've seen attributed to him has come true.

Some others things Sutton announced early which later turned out to be true:

•   Doomsday in BvS.
•   Deathlok in Agents of SHIELD.
•   The Inhumans in Agents of SHIELD.
•   Benedict Cumberbatch playing Doctor Strange.
•   The Sony/Marvel deal.
•   He predicted Disney's acquisition of 20th Century Fox three and a half years before it was finalised.

That doesn't mean he's right about this, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was.

Here are some random thoughts about Flashpoint and Batman Beyond.

They're planning to film Flashpoint in England early next year, so they may as well return to Knebworth House for the stately Wayne Manor exteriors and Hatfield House for the interiors. There's no reason why stately Wayne Manor can't look exactly the same as it did in Batman 89. Or would fans prefer something closer to what we saw in Batman Returns? Or how about a new stately Wayne Manor entirely?

Burton was still living in the US when he shot the first two Batman films, but he's been based in England for a long time now. Presumably, if he does return, he'll be shooting Batman Beyond at the Warner Bros Studios in Leavesden, where they also filmed Wonder Woman and Justice League. Leavesden is in Hertfordshire, the same county in which both Knebworth House and Hatfield House are located. The proximity of these sites is another reason they should return to the Batman 89 locations.

If Burton is directing Batman Beyond, and if it is intended to be the final entry in his Batman trilogy, then I think Neo-Gotham should have a more gothic appearance than it did in the original animated series. It should still be futuristic, while retaining many of the architectural characteristics that defined Burton's earlier Gotham. It would also be cool if they recreated some specific locations from the old movies, like Crime Alley or the cathedral. Fritz Lang's Metropolis (1927) influenced Burton's cityscapes in the old films, and it would make a good reference for Neo-Gotham too. I'm thinking of the way Lang had a number of old gothic structures tucked away between the futuristic skyscrapers, such as Rotwang's peculiar house or the cathedral (which influenced the B89 cathedral sequence).


If Depp is going to be the new DCEU Joker, then does that mean Leto's out? Will Depp be playing a resurrected Jack Napier or a fusion of Nicholson and Leto's Jokers? The fusion angle seems plausible, since the Batman Beyond film will take place after the Burtonverse has merged with the DCEU in Flashpoint. Since the plot of Return of the Joker involves Tim Drake being possessed by the Joker's DNA, does that mean Depp will also be playing Drake or some other ally of Bruce's? I can imagine Depp being retroactively made the Robin of the Burtonverse, with flashbacks showing him and Keaton, digitally de-aged, working together after the events of Batman Returns. They could ditch the science fiction explanation from the original film and make it more supernatural; have it so that Depp is now the retired Dick Grayson/Nightwing who becomes possessed by the ghost of Nicholson's Joker. The idea of Dick becoming the new Joker would also reference The Dark Knight Strikes Again.

For the cinematography on Batman Beyond, how about Polish DP Dariusz Wolski? He served as director of photography on The Crow (1994), Dark City (1998), the Pirates of the Caribbean films and Prometheus (2012). He also previously worked with Tim Burton on Sweeney Todd (2007) and Alice in Wonderland (2010). He'd be perfect for Batman Beyond. Here are some examples of his work.


Emmanuel Lubezki would also be a good choice. He previously worked with Burton on Sleepy Hollow and has since acted as DP on Gravity (2013), Birdman (2014) and The Revenant (2015).

I'm assuming Benjamin Wallfisch will score Flashpoint, since he collaborated with Andy Muschietti on the director's previous two films. I'm perfectly happy with this, as I loved Wallfisch's work on Blade Runner 2049. However he should definitely reference Elfman's Batman theme. And obviously Elfman himself should score Batman Beyond if Burton returns as planned.

I'm always advocating for the classic grey and blue/black costume to appear in the movies, but in this case I want Keaton's costume to resemble his older suits. Stick with the armoured Neal Adams look, including the long ears and scalloped cape. All black, except for the belt and chest emblem.

Speaking of the chest emblem, the teaser poster for Batman Beyond should correspond with those of B89 and BR. I'm thinking of a red and black Bat emblem with red light or flames splashing across it.

Quote from: The Joker on Thu, 25 Jun  2020, 22:15
I've had some thoughts about this, and man oh man, there's some potential story telling with that one. If they go with a Burtonized Helena Wayne (which I would generally prefer since I like that Earth-Two stuff and never really liked the Post-Crisis Bertinelli Huntress all that much), there could be some interesting drama there in terms of Helena's upbringing. Perhaps she's estranged from both her parents? The possibility that both Bruce and Selina had a very rocky, on-off again relationship certainly isn't out of the realm of possibility.

I'm siding with the Helena Wayne at the moment, and with your idea of a rocky relationship between Bruce and Selina. That seems more likely between these two, and would contrast against the happily ever after that Nolan went with. Beyond made Bruce a father, so mirroring that here wouldn't hurt. It would make Batgirl's training more meaningful. Perhaps Selina doesn't agree with the training, but comes to accept it. Something along those lines would be interesting to explore. Michelle would accept an invitation to return, I'm sure.

The Jokerz would be fitting for a Burton film given B89 and BR both feature clown gangs. I recall there was a planned headline of some sort stating JOKER'S BODY MISSING. I'm not sure how supernatural Burton would be willing to go, but I feel that's a possible option to open the door for Depp, or whoever plays the role. Burton's original sketch for the character could also be used.

Maybe they could get Paul Dini on board since he did pen a script for a Beyond film (granted it doesn't seem it got far)

Just googling Blade Runner 2049 fanart (haven't seen it) and it looks like an awesome mix of Returns Gotham, TAS, and Beyond (granted at least beyond was arguably inspired by Blade Runner and most definitely Akira!
(https://c4.wallpaperflare.com/wallpaper/69/458/538/blade-runner-futuristic-city-futuristic-city-cityscape-hd-wallpaper-preview.jpg)
(https://cdna.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/017/928/126/large/rodrigo-avila-render2.jpg?1557877464)

It's also interesting how Keaton started doing Comic conventions so I wonder sorta inspired him to get back into comic book movies

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Fri, 26 Jun  2020, 15:10The similarities might be coincidental, but they exist all the same.

When people say that things like that are a coincidence, I can't help thinking that they don't understand what they've just admitted to.

If the similarities are intentional references to the comics then credit must be given to Burton for taking more inspiration from the source material than he usually gets credit for.

But if the similarities are a total coincidence (as some people say) then what does it say about Burton that he knew nothing about the comics but still reached similar conclusions as those Golden Age creators? How locked into the source material must he have been to have gotten basically the same ideas from the same basic starting point as Kane and Finger?

Intentional or not, the similarities are real and I think it says a lot about Burton that they exist at all.

The Hollywood Reporter is stating that Keaton will wear the costume:

Quote► Michael Keaton is in talks to return as Batman. (And by Batman, we also mean Bruce Wayne. Despite pesky rumors from certain corners, there is no Thomas Wayne in the script, sources tell us. Also: Keaton would appear in costume.)

https://link.hollywoodreporter.com/view/5d72bf807e55540ee8500a04ccj4v.bbg/50b114d8

Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Fri, 26 Jun  2020, 17:40Just googling Blade Runner 2049 fanart (haven't seen it) and it looks like an awesome mix of Returns Gotham, TAS, and Beyond (granted at least beyond was arguably inspired by Blade Runner and most definitely Akira!
(https://c4.wallpaperflare.com/wallpaper/69/458/538/blade-runner-futuristic-city-futuristic-city-cityscape-hd-wallpaper-preview.jpg)
(https://cdna.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/017/928/126/large/rodrigo-avila-render2.jpg?1557877464)

Those are great. This is exactly the sort of thing I'd like to see. If the production designers are seeking to reconcile the anime cyberpunk look of the original TV series with the gothic art deco sensibility of the Burtonverse, then one compromise might be to go for a steampunk aesthetic. Something like this:


I know these designs seem pretty extreme compared to the more recent depictions of Gotham, but let's not forget that Burton's Gotham has always been a fantasy setting. And Batman Beyond is meant to take place in the future. I reckon a steampunk Gotham might be just what this film needs to give it a distinct visual identity, while at the same time making it feel consistent with the acclaimed production design showcased in Burton's earlier Batman films. I'd have no trouble believing the Gotham of B89 and BR might have evolved into something like this over the past thirty years.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 26 Jun  2020, 18:50

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Fri, 26 Jun  2020, 15:10The similarities might be coincidental, but they exist all the same.

When people say that things like that are a coincidence, I can't help thinking that they don't understand what they've just admitted to.

If the similarities are intentional references to the comics then credit must be given to Burton for taking more inspiration from the source material than he usually gets credit for.

But if the similarities are a total coincidence (as some people say) then what does it say about Burton that he knew nothing about the comics but still reached similar conclusions as those Golden Age creators? How locked into the source material must he have been to have gotten basically the same ideas from the same basic starting point as Kane and Finger?

Intentional or not, the similarities are real and I think it says a lot about Burton that they exist at all.

Well said. :)

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 26 Jun  2020, 18:50
If the similarities are intentional references to the comics then credit must be given to Burton for taking more inspiration from the source material than he usually gets credit for.

But if the similarities are a total coincidence (as some people say) then what does it say about Burton that he knew nothing about the comics but still reached similar conclusions as those Golden Age creators? How locked into the source material must he have been to have gotten basically the same ideas from the same basic starting point as Kane and Finger?

Intentional or not, the similarities are real and I think it says a lot about Burton that they exist at all.

That's the best way of explaining it.

Both of his films understand the importance of film as a medium, meaning the power of sound and image eliciting an emotional response in an audience. The descent into mystery, the Penguin carriage through the sewer and various other sequences prove my point. You don't require a complex plot for such movies to be burned into your consciousness, it's more about how they make you feel, and what you actually remember after watching them. I believe that's much harder to achieve.

I've seen some people rubbish the idea of Burton coming back, but I think they're crazy.

No Thomas Wayne? Good. More screen time for Keaton, who can also be 100% Burtonverse Bruce.
Keaton will wear the costume? I'm hoping so. I fully expect that to be minimal, but I'll take what I can get.

If there was only one sequence with Keaton in costume, I'd go with his 'last night out'. Picking up a gun wouldn't be the reason. I think having heart problems and struggling in combat, but but still managing to overcoming his enemies, would be sufficient. The remote control Batmobile coming in to save him would work well. How about it driving him back to the cave ala TDK Returns?

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Fri, 26 Jun  2020, 15:10
I'm digging all of these ideas. I also prefer the Pre-Crisis Helena over the Post-Crisis version. I'm a huge fan of the Earth-Two canon in general, including the Bronze Age stories surrounding Bruce and Selina's marriage, Batman's death and the origins of the Huntress. If you look back over all of our features and discussions concerning the similarities between Burton's Batman and the comics, you'll see the Earth-Two stories get brought up time and time again. The similarities might be coincidental, but they exist all the same.

(https://www.batman-online.com/features/1344636699_02-batman01.jpg)(https://www.batman-online.com/features/1344636699_02-batman02.jpg)

(https://www.batman-online.com/features/1344636699_Batman390015.jpg)(https://www.batman-online.com/features/1344636699_0870.jpg)

(https://www.batman-online.com/features/1346116021_b49b.jpg)

(https://www.batman-online.com/features/1346116021_b49c.jpg)

(https://www.batman-online.com/features/1344636699_NewPicture10.jpg)

(https://www.batman-online.com/features/1348091705_dc58a.jpg)

(https://www.batman-online.com/features/1348092525_dc58c.jpg)

(https://www.batman-online.com/features/1348092706_dc58d.jpg)

(https://www.batman-online.com/features/1338207366_catwoman-batman-15.jpg)

(https://www.batman-online.com/features/1338243715_batman-15-catwoman.jpg)

(https://www.batman-online.com/features/1338247464_mistletoe.jpg)

(https://www.batman-online.com/features/1348318044_bab197.jpg)

And yes, Bruce is unmasking to reveal his secret identity to Selina in that last panel, just like he does in the film.

Truly awesome stuff! Yeah, I am another big fan of the Pre-Crisis Earth-Two continuity, and wish DC would release more stuff focusing on that history in trade collections. Specifically Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman 1970's/1980's adventures of Earth-Two. I would purchase those in a heart beat.

I remember hoping, following Infinite Crisis, that we would get more of Earth-Two since it was basically brought back into having existed in the DC Universe, but other than the Superman/Batman #27 issue featuring a untold flashback tale, and JSA #85 (featuring a brief appearance of Earth-Two Batman), I don't recall DC Comics immediately following up on anything with Earth-Two characters for awhile.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/S/cmx-images-prod/Item/2165/APR060191._SX1600_QL80_TTD_.jpg)

(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/d/dc/JSA_Vol_1_85.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20090107203855)

If anything, I think anything related to Earth-Two was regulated to Power Girl. As I recall the story line where Kingdom Come Superman entered the main DC universe, she told him that he was literally a spitting image of her cousin, Kal-L. And speaking of Kal-L, there was that Blackest Night Superman 3-parter, but I don't recall that going over very well.

One of these days, I'll get around and purchase Brave and the Bold #200. As that comic featured the final appearance of the Joker from Earth-Two. I've never seen any scans of this appearance, but he's said to appear much more elderly than his appearances in the Huntress backup stories that originally were published in the Wonder Woman volume 1 title (if anyone ever finds a scan of this, shoot it my way). Thankfully, there's a trade released years ago that covers those early Helena Wayne adventures.

(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-kxKc3s3lW7k/Va2kslVhzGI/AAAAAAAACuc/to3Eu0dRioc/s1600/Huntress%2BTPB%2BPage%2B000.jpg)

QuoteIf Depp is going to be the new DCEU Joker, then does that mean Leto's out? Will Depp be playing a resurrected Jack Napier or a fusion of Nicholson and Leto's Jokers? The fusion angle seems plausible, since the Batman Beyond film will take place after the Burtonverse has merged with the DCEU in Flashpoint. Since the plot of Return of the Joker involves Tim Drake being possessed by the Joker's DNA, does that mean Depp will also be playing Drake or some other ally of Bruce's? I can imagine Depp being retroactively made the Robin of the Burtonverse, with flashbacks showing him and Keaton, digitally de-aged, working together after the events of Batman Returns. They could ditch the science fiction explanation from the original film and make it more supernatural; have it so that Depp is now the retired Dick Grayson/Nightwing who becomes possessed by the ghost of Nicholson's Joker. The idea of Dick becoming the new Joker would also reference The Dark Knight Strikes Again.

That's some very astute observations, and which make a ton of sense. If it were up to me, and when it comes right down to it, I would just go with the idea of a Napier/Grayson/Depp possession fusion, and forget about Leto's Joker. As there's only his appearance in Suicide Squad to consider, and even Birds of Prey seemed like an attempt, with the very little we actually see of Joker, to back away from the aesthetic appearance of Leto's Joker. As there were only got very quick shots of the back of his head during flashbacks, and both the Joker/Harley toon at the beginning of BOP, as well as the Joker drawing in Harley's apartment, honestly looked more like a classic comic book Joker than Ayer/Leto's interpretation.

I am not really sure where this leaves the Joker/Harley relationship with Flashpoint. If Burton's continuity is THE Batman continuity within the DCEU, with Nicholson's Joker (having been deceased for some time now) established as THE Joker in the DCEU, then the notion of a Joker/Harley relationship, as we've seen it within the DCEU, is now null and void.

  Considering the age gap, and time frame, it wouldn't make any sense. The whole psychiatrist backstory wouldn't be present, as Nicholson's Joker was never institutionalized. Thus, they never developed a twisted relationship, as depicted in Suicide Squad. They never broke up, as depicted in Birds, cause Joker had been deceased for decades.

I suppose one way to reconcile Harley's mere existence in the DCEU is to retcon her as a once-obsessive fan girl. As I am sure Nicholson's Joker would have had numerous books written about him, documentaries, movies, ect due to being a prolific and terrifying mob boss in Gotham during his reign, but that obviously changes the Joker/Harley dynamic quite a bit. A dramatic change for sure, akin to how the cancelled "Batman Unchained" was going to depict Harley Quinn as Napier's daughter.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 26 Jun  2020, 15:24
I'm siding with the Helena Wayne at the moment, and with your idea of a rocky relationship between Bruce and Selina. That seems more likely between these two, and would contrast against the happily ever after that Nolan went with. Beyond made Bruce a father, so mirroring that here wouldn't hurt. It would make Batgirl's training more meaningful. Perhaps Selina doesn't agree with the training, but comes to accept it. Something along those lines would be interesting to explore. Michelle would accept an invitation to return, I'm sure.

Thanks, TDK. Honestly, I think you previously stated in this thread the idea of a version of Batgirl appearing, but not necessarily Barbara, that got the wheels spinning on the possibility of getting a worthwhile cinematic version of the Helena Wayne. In keeping with that, theoretically, a Helena Wayne Batgirl would keep Batman's presence within the DCEU long after a future exit from keaton. Especially on a deep personal level, as it was depicted that Helena truly loved and honored her father (and even thought of the Pre-Crisis Batman of Earth-1 as an Uncle).

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dgo0zqFX0AA1ahV.jpg)

QuoteThe Jokerz would be fitting for a Burton film given B89 and BR both feature clown gangs. I recall there was a planned headline of some sort stating JOKER'S BODY MISSING. I'm not sure how supernatural Burton would be willing to go, but I feel that's a possible option to open the door for Depp, or whoever plays the role. Burton's original sketch for the character could also be used.

Very true. If Burton and Depp come on board, I would personally love it if Burton would politely ask Depp to have a conversation with Jack Nicholson, and pick his brain about the Joker's character. Course, Johnny Depp needs to bring his own qualities to the part, and not just be a carbon copy, but I would like to see some call backs in terms of dress style, personality and such. Actually, I think I would loose my s**t if there's a couple of scenes, or at the very least, one scene where Nicholson's voice literally comes out of Depp's Joker ("Ever Dance with the Devil by the Pale Moonlight?" being the most obvious choice). To further illustrate the angle of supernatural possession, and/or possibly to really wreck Bruce, in addition to further amusing himself, if the Batcave attack is adapted from BBROTJ.

Based on what colors and SN have said, I've concluded the words of these YouTubers have merit. With such a film, I don't think all of our desires can be fulfilled. Knox could be a real possibility, given Wahul's recent appearance. But even if people like Billy Dee Williams don't appear in the flesh, it would be great to have some kind of reference or background visual cameo to them. The past 30 years could be filled in with tie-in comics.

If the B89 Wayne Manor is used, it would be great to see that version's secret batcave entrance, opposed to the iron maiden. Which would also retroactively apply to B89 as well - we just didn't see it then. I think using the B89 world would make a lot of sense if the Joker's return is a key part of that. Imagine a Depp Joker walking through the Cathedral, tracing old steps and encountering Batgirl, or whoever the mentee is.

Ideally Keaton's suit would more or less resemble what he wore in the original two films. There can be modifications of course, but that's what the fans identity with. I'm open to a Kingdom Come type design, though - I'd just like to see those classic suits somewhere, even if just in storage.

Quote from: The Joker on Sat, 27 Jun  2020, 01:35
Very true. If Burton and Depp come on board, I would personally love it if Burton would politely ask Depp to have a conversation with Jack Nicholson, and pick his brain about the Joker's character. Course, Johnny Depp needs to bring his own qualities to the part, and not just be a carbon copy, but I would like to see some call backs in terms of dress style, personality and such. Actually, I think I would loose my s**t if there's a couple of scenes, or at the very least, one scene where Nicholson's voice literally comes out of Depp's Joker ("Ever Dance with the Devil by the Pale Moonlight?" being the most obvious choice). To further illustrate the angle of supernatural possession, and/or possibly to really wreck Bruce, in addition to further amusing himself, if the Batcave attack is adapted from BBROTJ.

Great minds think alike - a Nicholson voice cameo would be perfect. Even if it's not pure reality, but Bruce's own perception of the moment, or simple audience misdirection. Much like Christopher Lee's Saruman voice appearing at the beginning of Gandalf the White's return in The Two Towers.

I drew a cosplay Beyond idea that incorporated some Burton elements some years back did throw in some Schumacher sonar fins as I think those give a good beyond equivalent and a nice homage
(https://i.postimg.cc/kgDbQxJj/bby.png)

I have to say, it's nice to see so many old site members returning over the past few days. It almost feels like the old band is getting back together. Then again, it's been an exciting week for Burton Batman fans. This thread was only created on Monday, and it's already got over 70 posts! If the news about Keaton returning pans out, then these boards will be more active than ever in the months and years to come.

Returning to what colors was saying about the filmmakers possibly killing off Bat-Keats, I'm wondering if they might have him die at the end of Flashpoint only to be resurrected when the two universes subsequently merge. I say this because the Flashpoint Batman was killed by Enchantress during the final battle in the original comic (later retconned).


They might have Bat-Keats sacrifice himself in the movie, then follow this with a touching scene where Barry discovers he's still alive in the rebooted timeline. I'd prefer it if they didn't do this, as it would mean the Bruce Wayne in the Batman Beyond film was technically a different version than the one in B89, BR and Flashpoint. But if they are following the recent trend of bringing back old heroes only to kill them off for cheap dramatic effect, then this would be a way of doing it while still allowing Keaton to return in later films.

Here's some concept art for what an updated Bat-Keats suit might look like. This first one is by digital artist Tiago Ribeiro.


These are by John Regan.


The more I think about how Bruce should look in these films, the more I think a hairpiece is unnecessary. The aging Earth-Two Batman was often drawn with a receding hairline, as was the Kingdom Come version.


I don't mind if he does wear a hairpiece, but I think his natural look is perfectly consistent with a Bruce Wayne of advancing years. Keaton's age is actually quite appropriate for the Flashpoint Batman. Even if they'd gone with the Jeffrey Dean Morgan Thomas Wayne – who was meant to be 35 when he was shot in 1981 – then he'd have been in his mid-seventies by the time of Flashpoint. So the Keaton Batman will actually be younger than Jeffrey Dean Morgan's version would have been.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 26 Jun  2020, 23:55If there was only one sequence with Keaton in costume, I'd go with his 'last night out'. Picking up a gun wouldn't be the reason. I think having heart problems and struggling in combat, but but still managing to overcoming his enemies, would be sufficient. The remote control Batmobile coming in to save him would work well. How about it driving him back to the cave ala TDK Returns?

This would be an important scene in setting up Batman Beyond, but I'm wondering if perhaps it would be better placed at the end of Flashpoint. If the reports are true, it sounds like Bruce will be in costume in Flashpoint but retired in Batman Beyond. Maybe he should experience his moment of physical weakness during the final battle against Reverse Flash. It's then that he realises he's getting too old for this job and calls it quits. The scene where he confronts his limitations would be a powerful dramatic moment in Flashpoint's finale, paving the way for Burton to hit the ground running with a retired Bruce at the beginning of Batman Beyond. Or should Bruce's sobering moment of realisation be saved for the start of Batman Beyond, similar to the first episode of the animated series?

Quote from: The Joker on Sat, 27 Jun  2020, 01:35Truly awesome stuff! Yeah, I am another big fan of the Pre-Crisis Earth-Two continuity, and wish DC would release more stuff focusing on that history in trade collections. Specifically Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman 1970's/1980's adventures of Earth-Two. I would purchase those in a heart beat.

I don't know why they haven't done this already. It's an ongoing ambition of mine to collect every single issue of Daredevil ever published, and Marvel's Epic Collections are a huge help in achieving this goal. They each comprise about 450-500 pages and collect every appearance by a particular character between roughly a two-year span. You could probably collect all of the Silver and Bronze Age Earth-Two Batman stories in just one or two volumes that size. It would be a great way of introducing new readers to these classic and sadly forgotten stories, while giving old-timers like us some nice new editions to fit neatly in our collections.

Quote from: The Joker on Sat, 27 Jun  2020, 01:35One of these days, I'll get around and purchase Brave and the Bold #200. As that comic featured the final appearance of the Joker from Earth-Two. I've never seen any scans of this appearance, but he's said to appear much more elderly than his appearances in the Huntress backup stories that originally were published in the Wonder Woman volume 1 title (if anyone ever finds a scan of this, shoot it my way).

It's been over a decade since I last read that story, but here's the Earth-Two Joker's final appearance in The Brave and the Bold Vol 1 #200 (July 1983). He literally only appears on this one page, and I'm not quite sure why his hair is greying considering it was permanently dyed green. But here it is.


His hair was still entirely green during his previous appearance, when he was captured by Huntress and the Dick Grayson Batman in 'Last Laugh!' (Wonder Woman Vol 1 #283, September 1981). Perhaps he stopped colouring it green after Batman died?

Quote from: The Joker on Sat, 27 Jun  2020, 01:35I am not really sure where this leaves the Joker/Harley relationship with Flashpoint. If Burton's continuity is THE Batman continuity within the DCEU, with Nicholson's Joker (having been deceased for some time now) established as THE Joker in the DCEU, then the notion of a Joker/Harley relationship, as we've seen it within the DCEU, is now null and void.

  Considering the age gap, and time frame, it wouldn't make any sense. The whole psychiatrist backstory wouldn't be present, as Nicholson's Joker was never institutionalized. Thus, they never developed a twisted relationship, as depicted in Suicide Squad. They never broke up, as depicted in Birds, cause Joker had been deceased for decades.

I hadn't even considered this problem, but now that you mention it I'm struggling to see how they could reconcile the two characters. Warner Bros will obviously want to keep Harley around due to her popularity, but if the characterisation of Depp's Joker follows that of Nicholson's then he'd probably just kill her like he did Alicia. He might keep her around for a short time until she stopped amusing him, but I can't see Nicholson's Joker maintaining a long-term sidekick. Not after what he did to poor Bob.

I suppose they could have it so that Robbie's Harley somehow remembers Leto's Joker after the two universes merge and resents Nicholson/Depp's Joker for usurping his place. Honestly though, I'd rather they just kept Harley separate from the Burton side of the DC universe. I don't particularly want to see her interact with Bat-Keaton, and I don't think she'd be very compatible with the Burton Joker. I'd rather Burton just did his own take on the Harley concept in the form of the Dee Dee twins in Batman Beyond, and let Robbie's Harley remain in her own corner of the DCEU.

Quote from: The Joker on Sat, 27 Jun  2020, 01:35I suppose one way to reconcile Harley's mere existence in the DCEU is to retcon her as a once-obsessive fan girl. As I am sure Nicholson's Joker would have had numerous books written about him, documentaries, movies, ect due to being a prolific and terrifying mob boss in Gotham during his reign, but that obviously changes the Joker/Harley dynamic quite a bit. A dramatic change for sure, akin to how the cancelled "Batman Unchained" was going to depict Harley Quinn as Napier's daughter.

Something like this might be a good way of tying together Harley, the Red Triangle Gang and the Jokerz and contextualising all three as copycats in the wake of the Nicholson Joker's death.

Quote from: The Joker on Sat, 27 Jun  2020, 01:35Actually, I think I would loose my s**t if there's a couple of scenes, or at the very least, one scene where Nicholson's voice literally comes out of Depp's Joker ("Ever Dance with the Devil by the Pale Moonlight?" being the most obvious choice). To further illustrate the angle of supernatural possession, and/or possibly to really wreck Bruce, in addition to further amusing himself, if the Batcave attack is adapted from BBROTJ.

Just thinking about that sends a shiver down my spine. Imagine Depp's Joker delivering the Devil-line instead of the "Your old eyes do not deceive you, Brucie" line in the original film. It's his way of signalling that he's the real Joker, the guy who killed Bruce's family, and now he's back to finish the job.

Depp's got a lankier physique than Nicholson had, which offers some interesting possibilities in terms of his costume and makeup. Burton might be able to make the new Joker more closely resemble his original design. I don't have a problem with the way Nicholson's Joker looked, but I've always thought Burton could have done something more idiosyncratic with his appearance, like he did for Catwoman and Penguin. Just look at Beetlejuice.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 27 Jun  2020, 11:29Ideally Keaton's suit would more or less resemble what he wore in the original two films. There can be modifications of course, but that's what the fans identity with. I'm open to a Kingdom Come type design, though - I'd just like to see those classic suits somewhere, even if just in storage.

I'd rather he wore a more classic Batsuit in Flashpoint before hanging up the cowl at the end of the film. Then, during the finale of one of the later films when he's already settled into his retired/mentor role, he could surprise the audience by donning the Kingdom Come armour to fight alongside the younger heroes one last time. Here's what the KC armour might look like on Keaton.

Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Sat, 27 Jun  2020, 14:42
I drew a cosplay Beyond idea that incorporated some Burton elements some years back did throw in some Schumacher sonar fins as I think those give a good beyond equivalent and a nice homage
(https://i.postimg.cc/kgDbQxJj/bby.png)

I'd like Keaton himself to wear a more traditional Batsuit in Flashpoint, but something like this would be perfect if they went the Terry McGinnis route in Batman Beyond.

As a more general statement, I have said time and again that AT&T is a real company. They're in business, not Hollywood politics and weirdness. They've got a one-two punch going right now with ZSJL and now Keaton likely coming back as Batman.

And the reason I'm saying all this is to point out that NOTHING is happening right now that couldn't have been been done by WB years ago. AT&T is definitely behind ZSJL and I bet they're behind Keaton and Batman Beyond too. They've probably done their homework on what would excite fans and they're trying to give that to us.

When these things get run like a business, it's amazing what can happen, yes?

Looking at Napier's profile paints an interesting history.

In (at least 1986) Jack was 38 years old, making him 41 in 89. He stands 5'11" Birthday appears to be 12/8/1948 

1963 - At age 15, probably his first run in, a warrant was issued on him for assault (it looks like he was he wasn't the only one involved) and the warrant went thru the  F.B.Is Gothams Office. So I'd assume this was mob-related even then.

5/29/75 - Charged with Assualt
2/16/78 - Charged with Kidnapping
11/6/80 - Homicide (Not proved)
9/14/86 - Jack went under a phycological profile lasting seven hours (Could have been this universes' Harleen Quinzel). It was concluded that he was intelligent but highly unstable. Educational Aptitudes: Science, Chemistry, and Art. It was concluded that Jack was "Highly Dangerous" and gave a recommendation, however, that part is cut off, but I'd assume it would have been to seek treatment at a facility (possibly Arkham).
12/4/86 - Extortion (it's a mear months after his evaluation so one can assume he either spent little time at Arkham or got off entirely)

(https://i.postimg.cc/wMRXdhmw/vlcsnap-2020-06-27-15h18m59s803.png)

These are ultimately prop fillers, but it is rather detailed and it would be awesome to work these into ROTJ/reworked to fit the new timeline/merge

And take this as you may, https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/warner-bros-reportedly-jack-nicholsons-joker-flash/
If true, this could most definitely set up Depp being Robin/Future Joker. AND if true, I couldn't be more excited but I'll wait for an official announcement on really anything.

Like others, I haven't been this excited since...probably Batman Forever lol

Edit: As someone on youtube mentioned
https://youtu.be/UucKD0pYdac?t=52
"Batman Captures Joker"

Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Sat, 27 Jun  2020, 19:52
Looking at Napier's profile paints an interesting history.

In (at least 1986) Jack was 38 years old, making him 41 in 89. He stands 5'11" Birthday appears to be 12/8/1948 

1963 - At age 15, probably his first run in, a warrant was issued on him for assault (it looks like he was he wasn't the only one involved) and the warrant went thru the  F.B.Is Gothams Office. So I'd assume this was mob-related even then.

That does introduce some discontinuity with Bruce's age. If we take Keaton's age literally, Bruce was 38 in B89. He appears to be about ten years old while Jack is 16 at the youngest when the Waynes are murdered. If Bruce was ten then his parents were shot in 1961 which, according to your screen shot, puts Jack at the age of 13. Even though he looks at least 16.

Interesting.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 27 Jun  2020, 11:29
Based on what colors and SN have said, I've concluded the words of these YouTubers have merit. With such a film, I don't think all of our desires can be fulfilled. Knox could be a real possibility, given Wahul's recent appearance. But even if people like Billy Dee Williams don't appear in the flesh, it would be great to have some kind of reference or background visual cameo to them. The past 30 years could be filled in with tie-in comics.

Yes. That's something I've thought about as well. Similar to the comic book Batcave, it's definitely not out of the question that Keaton's Batcave may have several trophies at this stage in his career. Perhaps a framed picture plaque  of Billy Dee's Harvey Dent from B89, with a scarred coin beside it (a promotional image of Billy Dee's Harvey could do the trick here)? A life size replica of a Penguin commando? Since there wasn't a giant Joker card used in B89, I guess there are other options. Unless they want to go with something like the giant Joker card being one of those things where we are to conclude existed, but not seen in B89. Possibly discovered in a secret Joker hideout at some point after the events of '89.  Other adventures could be alluded to as well, just by the presence of trophies in the background (Riddler, Mad Hatter, Scarecrow, ect). Possibilities are endless.

QuoteGreat minds think alike - a Nicholson voice cameo would be perfect. Even if it's not pure reality, but Bruce's own perception of the moment, or simple audience misdirection. Much like Christopher Lee's Saruman voice appearing at the beginning of Gandalf the White's return in The Two Towers.

Good point!

Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Sat, 27 Jun  2020, 14:42
I drew a cosplay Beyond idea that incorporated some Burton elements some years back did throw in some Schumacher sonar fins as I think those give a good beyond equivalent and a nice homage

(https://i.postimg.cc/kgDbQxJj/bby.png)

Cool.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sat, 27 Jun  2020, 16:06
I have to say, it's nice to see so many old site members returning over the past few days. It almost feels like the old band is getting back together. Then again, it's been an exciting week for Burton Batman fans. This thread was only created on Monday, and it's already got over 70 posts! If the news about Keaton returning pans out, then these boards will be more active than ever in the months and years to come.

As another poster stated in this thread, this news is like read meat for Burton Batman fans like us. This thread makes that abundantly clear.  ;)

QuoteI don't know why they haven't done this already. It's an ongoing ambition of mine to collect every single issue of Daredevil ever published, and Marvel's Epic Collections are a huge help in achieving this goal. They each comprise about 450-500 pages and collect every appearance by a particular character between roughly a two-year span. You could probably collect all of the Silver and Bronze Age Earth-Two Batman stories in just one or two volumes that size. It would be a great way of introducing new readers to these classic and sadly forgotten stories, while giving old-timers like us some nice new editions to fit neatly in our collections.

Yes indeed. Those Marvel Epics are pretty sweet, and are about the only thing I continually collect from Marvel these days. It would be nice, especially to coincide with Keaton's Batman, if DC would publish some Epic size volumes of the Earth-Two material. Probably not, but a fella can dream.

Quote from: The Joker on Sat, 27 Jun  2020, 01:35
It's been over a decade since I last read that story, but here's the Earth-Two Joker's final appearance in The Brave and the Bold Vol 1 #200 (July 1983). He literally only appears on this one page, and I'm not quite sure why his hair is greying considering it was permanently dyed green. But here it is.

(https://i.postimg.cc/RhzsspmZ/batb200.png)

His hair was still entirely green during his previous appearance, when he was captured by Huntress and the Dick Grayson Batman in 'Last Laugh!' (Wonder Woman Vol 1 #283, September 1981). Perhaps he stopped colouring it green after Batman died?

THANK YOU FOR POSTING THAT! I've never seen that image before, and didn't realize his appearance was on just one page as you stated. From the summaries I've read, I could conclude it was a brief appearance, but I really didn't have any idea what he stated in the comic itself. Yeah, Earth-Two Joker looks quite a bit older than he did in the Huntress story (that's collected in the Huntress Dark Knight Daughter tpb). Looks like he aged pretty rapidly following his defeat by Huntress and Earth-Two Robin for sure.

Quote from: The Joker on Sat, 27 Jun  2020, 01:35
I hadn't even considered this problem, but now that you mention it I'm struggling to see how they could reconcile the two characters. Warner Bros will obviously want to keep Harley around due to her popularity, but if the characterisation of Depp's Joker follows that of Nicholson's then he'd probably just kill her like he did Alicia. He might keep her around for a short time until she stopped amusing him, but I can't see Nicholson's Joker maintaining a long-term sidekick. Not after what he did to poor Bob.

True. Nicholson's Joker seemed infatuated with Vicki Vale, right up until the scene he offered to "lend her a hand" as a gag. However, it's not like the Joker hasn't attempted to kill Harley before, but she continually would come back to him. Harley would be a different breed of infatuation or mad love for the Joker. Not being constantly drugged out like Alicia appeared to be, or just plain terrified of him like Vicki.

QuoteI suppose they could have it so that Robbie's Harley somehow remembers Leto's Joker after the two universes merge and resents Nicholson/Depp's Joker for usurping his place. Honestly though, I'd rather they just kept Harley separate from the Burton side of the DC universe. I don't particularly want to see her interact with Bat-Keaton, and I don't think she'd be very compatible with the Burton Joker. I'd rather Burton just did his own take on the Harley concept in the form of the Dee Dee twins in Batman Beyond, and let Robbie's Harley remain in her own corner of the DCEU.

I agree. I don't know, perhaps the DCEU can go with the 3 Jokers idea that's been floating around for years now. If/When it's considered a successful story and explanation or not ...

QuoteJust thinking about that sends a shiver down my spine. Imagine Depp's Joker delivering the Devil-line instead of the "Your old eyes do not deceive you, Brucie" line in the original film. It's his way of signalling that he's the real Joker, the guy who killed Bruce's family, and now he's back to finish the job.

Yes! Exactly my thoughts. I could even envision Depp's Joker paraphrasing Jack's Joker by telling Bruce something like, "I've been dead once already, well ... what is it now, twice? They are both equally liberating!" I don't know, something like that.

QuoteDepp's got a lankier physique than Nicholson had, which offers some interesting possibilities in terms of his costume and makeup. Burton might be able to make the new Joker more closely resemble his original design. I don't have a problem with the way Nicholson's Joker looked, but I've always thought Burton could have done something more idiosyncratic with his appearance, like he did for Catwoman and Penguin. Just look at Beetlejuice.

(https://i.postimg.cc/Wz5N6HFQ/burton-s-joker.png)

Yes, TDK mentioned this in a previous post as well.

Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Sat, 27 Jun  2020, 19:52
Looking at Napier's profile paints an interesting history.

In (at least 1986) Jack was 38 years old, making him 41 in 89. He stands 5'11" Birthday appears to be 12/8/1948

Ok. So he's a Sagittarius too? I had no idea.   

Quote1963 - At age 15, probably his first run in, a warrant was issued on him for assault (it looks like he was he wasn't the only one involved) and the warrant went thru the  F.B.Is Gothams Office. So I'd assume this was mob-related even then.

5/29/75 - Charged with Assualt
2/16/78 - Charged with Kidnapping
11/6/80 - Homicide (Not proved)
9/14/86 - Jack went under a phycological profile lasting seven hours (Could have been this universes' Harleen Quinzel). It was concluded that he was intelligent but highly unstable. Educational Aptitudes: Science, Chemistry, and Art. It was concluded that Jack was "Highly Dangerous" and gave a recommendation, however, that part is cut off, but I'd assume it would have been to seek treatment at a facility (possibly Arkham).
12/4/86 - Extortion (it's a mear months after his evaluation so one can assume he either spent little time at Arkham or got off entirely)

(https://i.postimg.cc/wMRXdhmw/vlcsnap-2020-06-27-15h18m59s803.png)

These are ultimately prop fillers, but it is rather detailed and it would be awesome to work these into ROTJ/reworked to fit the new timeline/merge

And take this as you may, https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/warner-bros-reportedly-jack-nicholsons-joker-flash/
If true, this could most definitely set up Depp being Robin/Future Joker. AND if true, I couldn't be more excited but I'll wait for an official announcement on really anything.

Like others, I haven't been this excited since...probably Batman Forever lol

Edit: As someone on youtube mentioned
https://youtu.be/UucKD0pYdac?t=52
"Batman Captures Joker"

Appreciate you posting this.  8)

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 27 Jun  2020, 16:56
As a more general statement, I have said time and again that AT&T is a real company. They're in business, not Hollywood politics and weirdness. They've got a one-two punch going right now with ZSJL and now Keaton likely coming back as Batman.

It's hard for anything else to compete with 30 years of nostalgia. I see a Keaton return being the biggest thing in the franchise since he first appeared on the scene in 1989. Dream are becoming realities, and I'm glad to be alive to see all this happen, and not just for Batman. Look at how much has come together in such a short space of time. Stuff I never seriously thought would happen, ZSJL included:

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 24 Oct  2019, 02:50
I literally got back into the series again about four months before the M4 announcement, so the timing couldn't have been any better. To understand my point of view, this is on equal footing with a hypothetical Michael Keaton return.

Anything with the Burton Batman cast will be given heightened attention from now on.

I saw Michelle post this recently of her training and took a screenshot.

(https://i.imgur.com/fEEdEnh.jpg)

Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Sat, 27 Jun  2020, 19:52
Edit: As someone on youtube mentioned
https://youtu.be/UucKD0pYdac?t=52
"Batman Captures Joker"

Which suggests a Nicholson Joker resurrection has already happened.

Quote from: The Joker on Sat, 27 Jun  2020, 22:17
Yes! Exactly my thoughts. I could even envision Depp's Joker paraphrasing Jack's Joker by telling Bruce something like, "I've been dead once already, well ... what is it now, twice? They are both equally liberating!" I don't know, something like that.

Perfect. Or even the Depp Joker saying, "wait til they get a load of me".

I'd like to know if Keaton's potential return is a part of long-term planning for the Flash film, or is it a result of major rewrites?

All I know is The Flash was supposed to undergo preliminary stunt work before production would begin later this year, but then COVID-19 screwed everything up.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cinemablend.com/news/2493015/wait-was-the-flash-movie-finally-going-to-start-filming-before-coronavirus-shut-downs

The rumours say its nowhere near a done deal and could go either way. So, if Keaton wasn't initially meant to be in The Flash, could the pandemic have given Muschietti and the studio the chance to consider making changes to the script? If COVID-19 never happened, would we be getting this story?

This is where it gets confusing. On the other hand, CinemaBlend's Sean O'Connell may have hinted Keaton's Batman had been planned all along:

Quote from: Sean O'Connell
We were in London for @birdsofpreywb, and randomly ran into [Flash director] Andy Muschietti outside our hotel. We chatted, and he mentioned working on #Flashpoint.

I asked him is Jeffrey Dean would return.

He smiled and said, "We actually have a different idea."

https://www.twitter.com/sean_oconnell/status/1275134977261416448

And then there is this little nugget I already mentioned in this thread a week ago:

Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Tue, 23 Jun  2020, 12:16
You can say I'm reading too much into this, but I've checked all the GIFs promoting the upcoming DC FanDome event on DC Comics' Twitter page. Interestingly, B89 is the only old film highlighted for this event.

https://twitter.com/DCComics/status/1273014308306182144

I have mixed emotions about all of this. First of all, I still don't trust the source of this news, and second of all, I strongly doubt Keaton, at his age, will retroactively become the new DCEU Batman. If anything, and assuming that this does come to fruition, The Flash will explore the multiverse, as Miller already did in CW's Crisis on Infinite Earths.

https://youtu.be/q_Zv95waK7c

Plus, Miller did confirm that the film will explore the multiverse during an interview back in November 2018. Of course, a lot may have changed since then, but it would make sense given his recent cameo on the CW.

https://youtu.be/VxD7cqDrlGc

We shall see.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Fri, 26 Jun  2020, 15:10And yes, Bruce is unmasking to reveal his secret identity to Selina in that last panel, just like he does in the film.

The Autobiography Of Bruce Wayne is one of the greatest Batman tales of all time. I first read it totally ignorant of Earth-2 so I didn't understand the stuff about Bruce and Selina dying and the poignancy that was meant to have for readers more familiar with Earth-2. And I think that's one reason why the final page works so well. Selina's death happens off-panel in the story and Bruce's own death is implied at the end and I really dug the ambiguous note of it. There's finality but not much that's specific. And, with a better understanding of Earth-2 now, I think the ambiguous ending that I originally took from that story is better than Earth-2 Batman's actual death.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Fri, 26 Jun  2020, 15:10

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 26 Jun  2020, 01:52Jett defined the culture of that page a long time ago. Regarding Batman Returns, Jett said (paraphrased) "That just ain't Batman".

In fairness to Jett, I think he stopped saying that not long after I posted the comic-to-screen comparisons with Catwoman: Her Sister's Keeper back in 2008. This could be my ego talking, but I'm pretty sure I was the first fan to dredge up that otherwise long-forgotten comic and make a big deal about the similarities. After the scans I uploaded started circulating, Jett did acknowledge the similarities in one of his articles or podcasts. I forget which it was now, but I recall him specifically namedropping HSK very soon after we posted one of the comic-to-screen features. It was either the Batman Returns one (https://www.batman-online.com/features/2009/1/2/possible-influences-of-comics-on-tim-burtons-batman-returns) or the Pfeiffer's Cat article (https://www.batman-online.com/features/2012/5/29/comic-analysis-michelle-pfeiffer-catwoman). I forget which. But I remember he stopped saying "Batman Returns is not Batman" and started saying "I still hate the movie, but I acknowledge it takes elements from the comics and is a legitimate interpretation". Which is a slight improvement.

I am (or I was) credited as a contributor to this site. In part, that's because I threw in a few additions to your B89/comics thread. Maybe BR too? Tough to remember. Anyway, all or most of that stuff had been posted earlier to BOFF circa 2005? 2006? Something like that, you're on the right track. We're talking about message board posts from like 15 years ago so who knows but my recollection of it is that several members, including Jett, mostly rejected those images because reasons.

Bale and Nolan were pretty much the zeitgeist of Batman at that time, as you know. And I couldn't escape the suspicion that a big proportion of those nay-sayers were nay-saying on almost ideological grounds. I thought the similarities between the films in question and those comic panels were so stark as to be undeniable. But the BOFF cohort didn't necessarily agree with that.

So imagine my surprise at what you wrote above about CWHSK. Perhaps facts matter after all?

I must say, I wasn't aware of Jett's softening position. You must understand that I haven't traded messages with him in at least 10'ish years. And I wouldn't say our final series of communications with each other were enjoyable events. As I recall, my ouster at BOFF coincided with the dismissal of certain other members as well. And at least one mod who had a well-deserved rep for even-handed moderation. One of the unfortunate casualties in the purge was a member called JazzFan2014 (2814? 2184? Something like that). He was an erudite and well-read member who frequently contributed thoughtful posts and meaningful insights. I think his posts were a little more rare but they tended to have greater authority for that same reason. He got purged a long with a bunch of us and I haven't seen him pop up anyplace else since. A shame.

I suppose a lot of growth can happen during ten years. If you played any role in softening Jett's position on these matters then congratulations are in order for you. And for him as well, I guess.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 26 Jun  2020, 02:34Ha. I know what you mean. Some people went so hard all in with Nolan. Everyone here knows the competitive juice between the two camps, especially in those days. I think it died down in recent years, but what happens now? It's just so mind warping that the game seems to have flipped completely the other way. I like lots of Batman interpretations, but if true, this is now OUR time.

An ironclad rule of fandom, especially these days, is Be Careful Who You Laugh At. Because things can change at the drop of a hat. A fan might be triumphant today and mournful tomorrow. So we should think twice about laughing at other fans' tears. Because justice is coming for all of us sooner or later so you better watch tf out.

I think certain Nolan fans are learning this lesson right now. Painfully. And publicly.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Fri, 26 Jun  2020, 15:10
Nolan fans circa 2005: "I get it. The Burton films were part of your childhood and you love Keaton's Batman for nostalgic reasons. But you've got to let go of the past and accept that Bale is the new Batman."

Burton fans circa 2021: "I get it. The Nolan films were part of your childhood and you love Bale's Batman for nostalgic reasons. But you've got to let go of the past and accept that Keaton is the new Batman."

I'm often told that I'm one of the most sarcastic, cold-hearted man that some people have ever met. That's not always said with disapproval either, btw.

But even I think the sentiment above twists the knife.

Keep it coming, this is good stuff. :D

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 28 Jun  2020, 04:38
I'm often told that I'm one of the most sarcastic, cold-hearted man that some people have ever met. That's not always said with disapproval either, btw.

But even I think the sentiment above twists the knife.

Keep it coming, this is good stuff. :D

If I say that's a huge compliment, then you're gonna think of me as a Norman Bates, Ted Bundy type...
...and then you might not let me kiss you.

(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Freplygif.net%2Fi%2F1210.gif&hash=451ddd60255bbbbc71004bb495dd44be06fcef6b)

I'm just thinking the Joker breaking into the Batcave and it mirroring the buzzer scene but with laughing gas

"I'm really glad you'll be dead. hahHAHAHAHH"
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.grouchoreviews.com%2Fcontent%2Ffilms%2F2132%2F1.jpg&hash=f13dad37b6e3184c25d3bf3b32e5851908efca89)

My minds been going crazy this past week, Watching 89 now and the feeling that it could be coming back...MAN

Edit: Woke up with this on the first thing on my mind lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtWP94WWaL0

There have been rumours on Twitter over the past 24 hours that Warner Bros might be considering Bale as a possible backup in case the Keaton negotiations fall through. I'm also hearing that this is unlikely to happen and is merely a contingency that's being contemplated, while many are saying Bale probably wouldn't do it anyway. He turned down an insane amount of money for BvS and would be unlikely to return without Nolan, plus he's about to join the MCU in the next Thor film. It sounds like Keaton is still the studio's first choice.

It's interesting to think of all the things that have happened in movies, comics, TV and videogames, since Burton and Keaton last made a Batman film. I think many of the people who criticise their work fail to take into account the context of when they were made. Batman 89 began filming in autumn 1988, by which point the Post-Crisis canon basically consisted of Year One,Year Two, The Killing Joke and a few standalone stories. A Death in the Family had not yet been published, and Arkham Asylum and Gotham by Gaslight weren't released until 1989. Even when Batman Returns came out, so many of the classic Batman stories we now take for granted had yet to be given life.

There was no Knightfall, no Batman: The Animated Series or DCAU in general. There was no Contagion, No Man's Land, The Long Halloween, Hush, Court of Owls, Zero Year, or many of the other stories that frequently crop up on greatest comics lists. There was no Arkham videogame series, no Lego Batman, no Nolan trilogy, no bat-nipples, no Damian Wayne, no Batman Beyond, no Flashpoint, no New 52, and no Oscar-winning Joker performances.

So much has happened since 1992, it'll be fascinating to see how some of these things might influence Burton and Keaton in the future. If they return, that is.

It's going to be a long wait until the FanDome event in August.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 27 Jun  2020, 20:59That does introduce some discontinuity with Bruce's age. If we take Keaton's age literally, Bruce was 38 in B89. He appears to be about ten years old while Jack is 16 at the youngest when the Waynes are murdered. If Bruce was ten then his parents were shot in 1961 which, according to your screen shot, puts Jack at the age of 13. Even though he looks at least 16.

Interesting.

I think the characters are meant to be younger than the actors. That's certainly true in DeVito's case, but I imagine it also applies to Bruce and Jack.

Sam Hamm's original script describes Bruce as being 35 in Batman 89, but in real life Keaton had just turned 37 one month before filming commenced. I always assumed that 35 was his in-universe age when the Burton Batman began his crime fighting career. Kilmer and Clooney were both around their mid thirties when they shot their respective films, though of course they're no longer canon if the latest reports are to be believed. Keaton was 40 when he shot Batman Returns, but it isn't clear how old Bruce is meant to be when those events take place. Late thirties/early forties, I guess. I expect he's meant to be in his mid sixties in Flashpoint.

Napier definitely looked older than 13 in the Batman 89 flashback. I would have pegged his age at around 20 there, which would put him in his mid to late forties when he becomes the Joker. Again, slightly younger than Jack was in real life.

Quote from: The Joker on Sat, 27 Jun  2020, 22:17True. Nicholson's Joker seemed infatuated with Vicki Vale, right up until the scene he offered to "lend her a hand" as a gag. However, it's not like the Joker hasn't attempted to kill Harley before, but she continually would come back to him. Harley would be a different breed of infatuation or mad love for the Joker. Not being constantly drugged out like Alicia appeared to be, or just plain terrified of him like Vicki.

That's a good point. Harley would be more likely to take the Joker's abuse and keep coming back for more. It would be interesting to see Harley and the Joker fighting against Batman as allies, but I'd still rather Robbie's version and the Burton Joker remained separate.

The three Jokers concept is interesting and would allow them to have Leto's Joker exist in the Harley films, Burton's Joker to exist in the Keaton films, and then Phoenix's Joker to exist wherever he ends up (Reeves' films?).

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 28 Jun  2020, 04:38The Autobiography Of Bruce Wayne is one of the greatest Batman tales of all time. I first read it totally ignorant of Earth-2 so I didn't understand the stuff about Bruce and Selina dying and the poignancy that was meant to have for readers more familiar with Earth-2. And I think that's one reason why the final page works so well. Selina's death happens off-panel in the story and Bruce's own death is implied at the end and I really dug the ambiguous note of it. There's finality but not much that's specific. And, with a better understanding of Earth-2 now, I think the ambiguous ending that I originally took from that story is better than Earth-2 Batman's actual death.

The Autobiography of Bruce Wayne ranks amongst my top ten favourite Batman comics of all time. It's the best of the Bronze Age Earth-Two stories, it's my favourite Scarecrow comic, and it's my favourite Bruce-Selina story as well (along with Batman Returns). I love Joe Staton and George Freeman's artwork, which blends the more detailed organic style of the Bronze Age with the clear lines and angular character designs of the Golden Age.


I also love how this story openly acknowledges the Earth-Two Batman's early use of guns and lethal force, whereas some other stories from that era tried to erase that aspect of the character's history. A fantastic comic all round. The unmasking scene already has strong parallels with the ending of Batman Returns, but I'd be thrilled if they referenced this story further in the upcoming films. Perhaps with regards to Selina reforming, assisting Batman and eventually marrying Bruce.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 28 Jun  2020, 04:38
I suppose a lot of growth can happen during ten years. If you played any role in softening Jett's position on these matters then congratulations are in order for you. And for him as well, I guess.

Like I say, it could just be my ego making me think I helped tame the dragon. If Jett saw even half of the examples highlighted in our features, then he must have been in denial about the film's validity for quite some time. The HSK panels likely just tipped him over the edge into admitting that the movie was closer to the comics than he'd previously conceded. I've tried looking for the article where he mentioned the HSK comparisons, but I can't find it now. He might have deleted it.

It was my understanding that some of the other things we posted in our features, such as the similarities between Burton's Selina and the Golden Age Catwoman's original Elva Barr alter ego, had not been highlighted before. But maybe they had been. I wouldn't know, as I was never a member of the BOF message boards. The horror stories I heard about the moderators put me off joining. At any rate, here's a quote from the video Jett posted last week:

Quote"I've said before that I don't like Batman Returns. I think it's more of a Tim Burton movie. But it's still a valid interpretation of Batman, because every writer, director, puts his own spin on Batman [...] and while I don't like Batman Returns, while I don't like BvS, I still would defend those directors, Tim Burton and Zack Snyder respectively, their right to make those films and let the audience judge."

There's some progress there. Or maybe he's just modifying his position because he knows a second Keaton/Burton era will bring renewed appreciation for their earlier work, and he doesn't want to be stuck on the losing side of a new fan war.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 28 Jun  2020, 04:38I'm often told that I'm one of the most sarcastic, cold-hearted man that some people have ever met. That's not always said with disapproval either, btw.

But even I think the sentiment above twists the knife.

Keep it coming, this is good stuff.

I try to rise above the fanboy wars, and yet I have such vivid memories of Bale fans trolling the IMDb back in the day. I remember this one guy who kept editing the B89 and BR FAQs to insert comments saying that the movies had nothing to do with the comics, and that Bruce Wayne should look like Christian Bale and not Michael Keaton. If Keaton and Burton do successfully return, it's going to be awfully tempting to turn the tables on those fans...

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun, 28 Jun  2020, 17:32
I try to rise above the fanboy wars, and yet I have such vivid memories of Bale fans trolling the IMDb back in the day. I remember this one guy who kept editing the B89 and BR FAQs to insert comments saying that the movies had nothing to do with the comics, and that Bruce Wayne should look like Christian Bale and not Michael Keaton. If Keaton and Burton do successfully return, it's going to be awfully tempting to turn the tables on those fans...

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/13253a8c3a4d1436d2db50faa97a6b3d/tenor.gif?itemid=12562540)

Oh, how I remember the 89 board on IMDB... I never understood the need to go in a thread/forum of something you hate just to talk about how much you hate it.

I also wonder how much of bringing Keaton back is because 89 merchandise still must sell pretty well (considering the uptick we've been getting the last 10 or even 5 years). Batmania lives on!

Edit: Also, the last year or so Dave Lea has been pretty vocal for doing one more Keaton/Burton film so here's hoping!

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun, 28 Jun  2020, 17:32
There have been rumours on Twitter over the past 24 hours that Warner Bros might be considering Bale as a possible backup in case the Keaton negotiations fall through. I'm also hearing that this is unlikely to happen and is merely a contingency that's being contemplated, while many are saying Bale probably wouldn't do it anyway. He turned down an insane amount of money for BvS and would be unlikely to return without Nolan, plus he's about to join the MCU in the next Thor film. It sounds like Keaton is still the studio's first choice.

Really? Weird. I heard the total opposite, that once Snyder came aboard, nobody even so much as mentioned Batman to him again.

But for me, Bale's portrayal of the character is inextricably linked to Nolan. Frankly, I don't think I care to see him play the character unless Nolan's directing. And somehow, I don't think Nolan's coming back.

Although hell, these days never say never...

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun, 28 Jun  2020, 17:32
It's interesting to think of all the things that have happened in movies, comics, TV and videogames, since Burton and Keaton last made a Batman film. I think many of the people who criticise their work fail to take into account the context of when they were made. Batman 89 began filming in autumn 1988, by which point the Post-Crisis canon basically consisted of Year One,Year Two, The Killing Joke and a few standalone stories. A Death in the Family had not yet been published, and Arkham Asylum and Gotham by Gaslight weren't released until 1989. Even when Batman Returns came out, so many of the classic Batman stories we now take for granted had yet to be given life.

True. I was thinking the same thing a few months ago, especially with BR. Knightfall, Contagion, No Man's Land, Hush, so much of what I consider to be MY era of the character was still to come. Even BTAS hadn't aired yet.

If it was possible to somehow return to myself circa 1992 Days Of Future Past-style, I wonder how odd it would be to get into the character as he was at that time. Back then, the Joker still committed crimes. He hadn't become the psychotic clown-themed mass murderer that he is now. So that would be a welcome change. But other stuff would be missing, like Bane, a more credible and modern Penguin, Batman and Nightwing being on relatively better speaking terms, Batman treating Tim like more of a legit partner, etc. Even Batman's relationship with Gordon was overall healthier in 1992 than it would become by, say, 1994. They buried the hatchet in NML but things were never completely the same.

Anyway.

Keaton!

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 28 Jun  2020, 19:33Really? Weird. I heard the total opposite, that once Snyder came aboard, nobody even so much as mentioned Batman to him again.

Actually, you're probably right. I'm likely misremembering the various conflicting stories from 2012-2013. I think Bale was made some sort of informal offer to stay on after TDKR, but told the studio he wouldn't return without Nolan. Something like that. By time Snyder was on board, and the BvS concept came up, Bale was probably already gone.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 28 Jun  2020, 19:33
But for me, Bale's portrayal of the character is inextricably linked to Nolan. Frankly, I don't think I care to see him play the character unless Nolan's directing. And somehow, I don't think Nolan's coming back.

Although hell, these days never say never...

It might happen a long, long, long time from now, if Nolan has a fresh idea on how to approach the character and needs to pay off the mortgage on his latest mansion, but I'm doubtful. The difference between Burton and Nolan is that Nolan and Bale got to conclude their Batman series the way they wanted to. Burton and Keaton didn't. Keaton in particular has often spoken of wanting to delve deeper into the character's head and explore his back story, but he never got the chance. Until now.

If Burton does conclude his trilogy with Batman Beyond, then both he and Nolan will have made two Batman films set reasonably close together, followed by a third which takes place in the future. TDKR took place 8 years after TDK, while BB will take place roughly 30 years after BR. But if things go according to plan, then Bat-Keats will not be limited to Burton's trilogy the way Baleman was to Nolan's. At the very least, Keaton will also co-star in Flashpoint. Which means A) the number of Bat-Keaton films that currently exist will have doubled in the next four or five years, and B) Keaton will have starred in the same number of Batman films as Chris Reeve did as Superman. And that's assuming he doesn't appear in any further DC movies after BB, which he might very well do. Then there's the possibility of a tie-in comic taking place between BR and BB, or perhaps even an animated anthology in the style of Batman: Gotham Knight (2008).

Exciting times indeed. ;D

Here's a question to everyone on the site – if you could pick five classic Batman villains to appear in a Burtonverse comic, each re-imagined in a Burtonesque style, which would you choose?

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun, 28 Jun  2020, 17:32
I try to rise above the fanboy wars, and yet I have such vivid memories of Bale fans trolling the IMDb back in the day. I remember this one guy who kept editing the B89 and BR FAQs to insert comments saying that the movies had nothing to do with the comics, and that Bruce Wayne should look like Christian Bale and not Michael Keaton. If Keaton and Burton do successfully return, it's going to be awfully tempting to turn the tables on those fans...

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/13253a8c3a4d1436d2db50faa97a6b3d/tenor.gif?itemid=12562540)

I'm going to ramble here but I'm feeling this right now, so here we go:

I don't believe any Gods exist, but I do think there's something there with karma, irony, or whatever you want to call it. Recent months have woken me up again in that regard. I like to be a realist, but for whatever reason things can turn around on you, so it's best not to rule anything out. It's best to say "I don't think so, but you never know." Forever is a long time – moods change, things go in and out of style. A big thing is the energy you bring and the momentum that creates – which then becomes a trend and can very hard to turn around - whether that be positive or negative. I hate complacency and the huge trouble that brings. As a rule, I go into something expecting to lose so I can plan to win. That's the best way to be.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun, 28 Jun  2020, 21:34
Here's a question to everyone on the site – if you could pick five classic Batman villains to appear in a Burtonverse comic, each re-imagined in a Burtonesque style, which would you choose?

In no order: Mad Hatter, Clayface, Killer Croc, Two-Face, Man-Bat.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun, 28 Jun  2020, 21:34
Here's a question to everyone on the site – if you could pick five classic Batman villains to appear in a Burtonverse comic, each re-imagined in a Burtonesque style, which would you choose?

Two-Face for sure. Also, Killer Croc, Man-Bat, Poison Ivy and The Monk.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun, 28 Jun  2020, 17:32
It's interesting to think of all the things that have happened in movies, comics, TV and videogames, since Burton and Keaton last made a Batman film. I think many of the people who criticise their work fail to take into account the context of when they were made. Batman 89 began filming in autumn 1988, by which point the Post-Crisis canon basically consisted of Year One,Year Two, The Killing Joke and a few standalone stories. A Death in the Family had not yet been published, and Arkham Asylum and Gotham by Gaslight weren't released until 1989. Even when Batman Returns came out, so many of the classic Batman stories we now take for granted had yet to be given life.

There was no Knightfall, no Batman: The Animated Series or DCAU in general. There was no Contagion, No Man's Land, The Long Halloween, Hush, Court of Owls, Zero Year, or many of the other stories that frequently crop up on greatest comics lists. There was no Arkham videogame series, no Lego Batman, no Nolan trilogy, no bat-nipples, no Damian Wayne, no Batman Beyond, no Flashpoint, no New 52, and no Oscar-winning Joker performances.

So much has happened since 1992, it'll be fascinating to see how some of these things might influence Burton and Keaton in the future. If they return, that is.

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/13253a8c3a4d1436d2db50faa97a6b3d/tenor.gif?itemid=12562540)

This is exactly my problem with a lot of the criticisms towards the 89 film. It feels like people are looking at it through the lense of the 80 years of Batman content that we have now rather than the 50 years that were around at the time.

That's also why I don't really care about the whole Batman killing thing in the 89 film. If you look at the 50 years of content Batman as a character is all over the place. So who's to say what the definitive Batman was at the time? I know people look at Dennis O'Neil's Batman as the template for the character but I think it's unfair to say that Burton should've used something that again within the context of 50 years was somewhat new albeit by 15 years. Also, if the whole one rule thing was the only way to adapt the character why didn't the number of people that Burton consulted inform him of this? Why didn't Sam Hamm, or Michael Uslan (Both big Batman fans) say something? Why didn't Bob Kane, or Alan Moore say something about it?

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun, 28 Jun  2020, 21:34
If Burton does conclude his trilogy with Batman Beyond, then both he and Nolan will have made two Batman films set reasonably close together, followed by a third which takes place in the future. TDKR took place 8 years after TDK, while BB will take place roughly 30 years after BR.

Just like Equinox seeks to create balance in the universe, observations like these make me FEEL like Keaton's return is likely. BR also has a time jump of 33 years following the Penguin's origin story flashback.

There's not been much in the way of major developments over the past few days, but here are some small things to keep the thread bumped.

Firstly, producer Michael Uslan has neither confirmed nor denied the reports of Keaton's return. However, he did post a link to a site reporting the story last week.


He made another post asking fans which comic book DC heroes they think Batman could mentor.


And he posted some fan art relating to the return of Keaton's Batman.


He's also been posting quite a bit about Batman 89 recently. I don't know if we should read anything into this or not, but since we're documenting all the speculation in this thread I figured it was worth mentioning.

It's been confirmed that Flashpoint director Andy Muschietti will be attending the FanDome event in August. We should get confirmation by then, if we haven't already.


I'm growing more and more sceptical about Depp playing the Joker. It may well be the case that AT&T/WB are planning to remake Return of the Joker, but in light of the controversy surrounding his ongoing court case I just don't see Depp being a bankable star right now. The DCEU already has enough baggage on its hands with Amber Heard and Ezra Miller.

One way around the Miller problem might be to recast the role and have the new Flash debut as soon as he wakes up in the Burtonverse/Flashpoint universe. His appearance could change right at the start of the film, thereby removing the need to use Miller at all.

I could see the Depp thing going either way. Yeah, he's got some stink on him because of all that Amber Heard BS. But he's also been pretty well vindicated on that. As much as anybody can be anyway.

Speaking of her, who's to say that one of Depp's conditions won't be her getting fired? If he's vindictive (and who wouldn't be in his position?), he might take the role because they fire her and for no other reason. Never underestimate the power of spite. That same spite along with his career decline could mean that WB can get Depp for the Joker for relatively cheap too.

As to Miller, and speaking of firing, I know I'm an outsider here but is it really that big a problem to just can the guy? He's a weirdo from way back, beating up on pregnant women does the publicity department no favors and in the main it doesn't look like he'd be missed by very many people. Why not just recast and get it over with?

None of these casting issues are Gordian Knots. They each have rather elegant solutions on the table. That doesn't mean I'm right when I suggest firing everybody but that's the shortest distance between two points, esp for a legit company like AT&T that just wants to make some money and skip the politics and bad press. Depp is a potential minefield but the truth is on his side, apparently. The other two actors are easy enough to deal with.

A number of sites have been reporting the Johnny Depp/Batman Beyond rumour over the past few hours. Unlike the reports of Keaton's return, which were covered by major outlets such as Forbes, Variety and The Hollywood Reporter, the Depp rumour has so far been confined to smaller sites. Still, it's interesting to see the reactions it's provoking.

I've seen quite a few people online suggesting Australian filmmaker Leigh Whannell would be a good pick to direct Batman Beyond. Whannell co-created the Saw and Insidious franchises, and in more recent years he directed the critically-acclaimed films Upgrade (2018) and The Invisible Man (2020). He's a long time collaborator and old friend of James Wan's, and he even made a cameo in Aquaman. Seeing as Wan is heavily involved in the DCEU, the prospect of Whannell signing up seems very plausible. Coincidentally (or not...), he just tweeted the following about Batman 89 earlier this week.


You can see his original tweet and the responses it got here: https://twitter.com/LWhannell/status/1278184962303258624

How about Burton and Wan producing Batman Beyond with Whannell writing and directing?

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun, 28 Jun  2020, 21:34
Here's a question to everyone on the site – if you could pick five classic Batman villains to appear in a Burtonverse comic, each re-imagined in a Burtonesque style, which would you choose?

Riddler, Two-Face, Scarecrow, Clayface, Harley Quinn.

QuoteI've seen quite a few people online suggesting Australian filmmaker Leigh Whannell would be a good pick to direct Batman Beyond.

Being that I liked "The Invisible Man" quite a bit, I can't say I am totally against this notion. However, there would have to be, on Whannell's part, a high degree of care and consideration, as this would be a long-awaited return to the Burtonverse. A substantial undertaking indeed.

I am sure Tim Burton himself could guide him, as a co-collaborator/producer/consultant, but if Burton is campaigning to be more than, and actually wants to direct Batman Beyond, then my loyalties lie with him. Especially so if getting Burton as director, is THE key component that induces Keats to officially sign on. I am assuredly not against another director coming on, especially one that which will honor and expand upon Burton's take/vision, as that scenario was my initial thought. However, Burton/Keaton teaming up once again on Batman for a 3rd time, is something we've fantasized about for decades. It just depends on Burton's direct involvement is a persuasion that's ideally needed for Keaton, and if Burton himself is even interested in taking on a "Batman Beyond" project. We'll see.

I wonder if Dini or Timm could be consultant(s) for Beyond? Has Dini's script ever been leaked?

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun, 28 Jun  2020, 17:32
I try to rise above the fanboy wars, and yet I have such vivid memories of Bale fans trolling the IMDb back in the day. I remember this one guy who kept editing the B89 and BR FAQs to insert comments saying that the movies had nothing to do with the comics, and that Bruce Wayne should look like Christian Bale and not Michael Keaton. If Keaton and Burton do successfully return, it's going to be awfully tempting to turn the tables on those fans...

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/13253a8c3a4d1436d2db50faa97a6b3d/tenor.gif?itemid=12562540)

Ha. Could've fooled me, considering you lamented and chastised those who didn't like both Keaton and Bale.

Well, I for one, couldn't care less about one-sided fans. They don't matter. Particularly if they can't even admit that Ben Affleck was the closest resemblance to the comic character we've had to date. With the exception of Adam West, albeit from a bygone era.

Anyway, I read a claim that Batman Beyond is in "active development", but because of a lack of further details I won't bother sharing the article. One theory I read, however, assumed was that if Tim Burton were to get back in some capacity, he would likely be an Executive Producer. Which does make some sense because Burton's work tends to follow on Gothic and quirky 1950s-esque aesthetics as opposed to futuristic sci-fi. I remember his 2001 Planet of the Apes remake, which was rather forgettable, and wasn't really his kind of film anyway. A more goofy comedy like Mars Attacks! matches his sensibilities, but a hypothetical Batman Beyond adaptation won't resemble that.

A childhood hero returning to his iconic role is not a cure for suicidal depression but, given the total unexpectedness of this (I had completely written off Keaton's name being associated with Batman, ever, again), it's the next best thing. It almost (almost) classifies as a good sign. Balance.

This, plus the whole AT&T/ Snyder Cut news a few weeks ago. And (not Bat-related) the (still unconfirmed) rumors of Disney possibly retconning the ST.

Let there be some Justice, even if it's only in pop culture.

One of the favourite discussion threads in this site.

Quote from: Azrael on Fri, 10 Jul  2020, 19:28
A childhood hero returning to his iconic role is not a cure for suicidal depression but, given the total unexpectedness of this (I had completely written off Keaton's name being associated with Batman, ever, again), it's the next best thing. It almost (almost) classifies as a good sign. Balance.

Great to see you back on the site, and hopefully long term. I've been to dark places and I'm regularly fighting those demons. I'm only a PM away if you ever need to talk about anything that's troubling you.

Fingers and toes crossed something does happen with Keaton - and if so, something substantial.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 11 Jul  2020, 11:21
Great to see you back on the site, and hopefully long term. I've been to dark places and I'm regularly fighting those demons. I'm only a PM away if you ever need to talk about anything that's troubling you.

Thanks, man, I really appreciate your words and your welcome. All-time low, all fronts, trying to pick up pieces, rebuild, that "Emergency Exit" still in the back of the mind and, yes, fighting "demons". I understand perfectly well what you mean about dark places and demons.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 11 Jul  2020, 11:21
Fingers and toes crossed something does happen with Keaton - and if so, something substantial.

This.

The thread is full of great ideas, if just a few of them are a bit close to how it turns out (if it does happen), it will make every Keaton fan happy.

Quote from: Azrael on Fri, 10 Jul  2020, 19:28
A childhood hero returning to his iconic role is not a cure for suicidal depression but, given the total unexpectedness of this (I had completely written off Keaton's name being associated with Batman, ever, again), it's the next best thing. It almost (almost) classifies as a good sign. Balance.

This, plus the whole AT&T/ Snyder Cut news a few weeks ago. And (not Bat-related) the (still unconfirmed) rumors of Disney possibly retconning the ST.

Let there be some Justice, even if it's only in pop culture.

One of the favourite discussion threads in this site.

Hang in there, Az.

Quote from: The Joker on Sun, 12 Jul  2020, 02:57
Hang in there, Az.

Thanks, Joker.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyMNhijANLE

Pretty neat fan trailer.

The rumor mill has it that Wonder Woman and Aquaman will not be appearing in the Flash movie, further poo pooing the notion that this will be a strict Flashpoint adaptation. While it is far too early to speculate, considering that everything, including Michael Keaton's involvement, is a rumor at this point, I thought I might take a stab at the likely (most desired) scenario that will unfold in the picture.

The exclusion of Wonder Woman and Aquaman might signal that this will be a much tighter affair than DCs attempts of the past to hastily throw connectivity into its universe driven films. In fact, to error on the side of taught storytelling despite the scale a multiverse story seemingly necessitates might just be the ticket. And I'm trying not to be too biased here, but the inclusion of a previously established DC universe (especially the 'Keaton corner' of it) and doing it on the silver screen is, frankly, enough to establish that, yes, there is a multiverse, yes we (DC) are committed to doing this kind of thing, and still also allow the film to be an 'epic' 'event' on its own. There is no need to overstuff the movie with fan service and references when you're playing your biggest hand by literally having (quite possibly) the bulk of the film's narrative take place in Keatonland. To hint is one thing, but do we need to skip the foreplay and just climax for 2 hours? Do we need multiple appearances by other big DC names?

So, it might be possible that they take a steady approach to this. For instance, I see them taking a Thor 3 approach to the narrative IE Flash figures out his character arc while in Keatonland sidequest (is the actual quest), meanwhile, Asgard (STAR Labs?/separate supporting cast) deals with Hella (the villain or crisis at hand), then Flash returns to main DCEU to a spectacular finale having understood his place in the universe. And maybe the arch for Flash is understanding that while he might be naive in some ways, that he doesn't need a mentor, rather he is the aspirational figure that the DCEU is looking for, and its the original take, the first attempt at a grim superhero on the big screen who tells him that. And Batman arrives at that conclusion by realizing that his lone war led him down a path that irrevocably tarnished him and he must, now so very late in life, expand his world.

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Thu, 23 Jul  2020, 16:23
While it is far too early to speculate, considering that everything, including Michael Keaton's involvement, is a rumor at this point, I thought I might take a stab at the likely (most desired) scenario that will unfold in the picture.

"Michael Keaton swooped in and took my gig," Morgan joked. "Naw, I think that's super cool. Ever since Zack Snyder walked away, my whole kind of bit in that world has walked away with him. However, there's always a chat going on. So, we'll see!"

https://comicbook.com/movies/news/batman-v-superman-jeffrey-dean-morgan-dceu-return-well-see/

If it's a choice between Keaton and Morgan... do I even need to say? I like Morgan as much as the next guy but come on. It's cool that he's being such a good sport about it tho.

I've recently watched some of Billy Dee Williams' earlier films, and more than ever I really, really want to see him play Two-Face. I know he's 83, but it's not too late. He's already played him in The Lego Batman Movie, and I reckon he'd be up for reprising the role in Flashpoint (it would help cleanse him of The Rise of Skywalker). If they are bringing Keaton back, then BDW is at the top of my wish list right alongside Michelle Pfeiffer.

I think the best way of handling this might be to have a scene similar to the first chapter of The Dark Knight Returns, or the opening sequence from Batman Forever, where a mysterious villain has taken over a major building (City Hall or the courthouse would be perfect). This would be Batman's introductory scene, comparable to the scene of him chasing down Harley Quinn in the original Flashpoint comic. Throughout most of the sequence we'd hear BDW's voice while Two-Face remains hidden in shadow, with just his hand visible as he flips his coin.


Bat-Keats would stealthily take down his goons before finally confronting Two-Face himself. At this point we'd see Dent's unscarred features lit from the side as he lurks in the shadows aiming a gun at Batman. Eventually a searchlight or helicopter would pass over him and we'd finally see his scarred white side in all its gruesome glory.


Rather than have Bat-Keats beat him into submission, I'd have him reason with Dent and talk him down from the ledge, so to speak. He'd say something about them both being too old for this, pointing out that they've been fighting each other without resolution for almost thirty years, and this would prompt Dent to break down and surrender. You could then have BDW make one final cameo in the Batman Beyond movie where he's shown to have reformed and undergone reconstructive surgery, just like the Earth-Two version did. His activities between B89 and Flashpoint could subsequently be explored in a tie-in comic.

Williams is a good actor, and the incomplete nature of the Burtonverse Dent's character arc has always bothered me. The legacy of BDW's Dent was also severely tarnished by Tommy Lee Jones' version, but now there's a chance to go back and fix that. Draw a line of demarcation between the Burtonverse Dent and his Schumacherverse counterpart so that BDW can make the character his own. He could have the gravitas and menace of the Eckhart Two-Face combined with the psychological profile of the comic book version.

It's frustrating to think that a fourth major comic villain exists in the Burtonverse, but we never got to see him in his villainous state. Let's fix that. Even if it's just a cameo, such as I've described, I'd be perfectly happy. If he has a bigger role, even better. Either way, bring back Billy Dee Williams' Two-Face.

Nicholson's retired, Grissom, Shreck and Penguin are dead, and Catwoman is more of an antihero than a true bad guy, so if they want to bring back a Burtonverse villain to help reintroduce Keaton then Two-Face is the logical choice.

Quote"I think it's great," Danny DeVito said of Keaton's return to the role in a recent interview. "I think it's a great series and I think it's a wonderful story and it's a lot of fun and a lot of energy and I loved Oswald Cobblepot, and I love Tim Burton. We've done four or five movies together. I can't wait for him to come up with the next one, whatever we're gonna do together."

https://movieweb.com/batman-the-flash-michael-keaton-danny-devito/

IF a deal has been agreed, I can't see why they wouldn't announce it during the Flashpoint panel. Even if it's just a short comment, or Keaton himself appearing in a prerecorded video. Fandome is the most excited I've been in a long time. ZSJL, Gotham Knights, The Batman, the GCPD spinoff and possibly Keaton's return confirmed? That's got to be the biggest Batman onslaught in history. I'll be watching it all in one go. We're in the calm before the storm period.

There are rumors making the rounds that not only will Val Kilmer appear for/in/during Fandome, he'll do so in full Batman costume, re: some type of announcement. Schumacher cut perhaps? But some people are suggesting he's appearing in Flashpoint because the Keaton deal fell through, thanks to the Internet.

Obviously, I want Keaton to return. And I want the Schumacher cut. And I guess I want Kilmer to be involved in Fandome.

But appearing in costume? Man, I hope that part is totally false. Because talk about humiliating for an actor.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 19 Aug  2020, 12:39
Obviously, I want Keaton to return. And I want the Schumacher cut. And I guess I want Kilmer to be involved in Fandome.

But appearing in costume? Man, I hope that part is totally false. Because talk about humiliating for an actor.

Not unless Kilmer really wants to do it. I can't imagine him doing Flashpoint in his condition though, even if he were to play a retired Bruce Wayne.

I'm at odds at what to think over Keaton. Him returning at any capacity always sounded too good to be true, but at the same time, I'd like to think that any speculation would've been sorted out by now. It would be disappointing to see all that talk leading up to DC FanDome, and then on the day it's revealed it's not happening.

We'll know on the day, I suppose.

Kilmer in costume would be horrible considering his fragile physical state. The man can barely speak. Let's give him some respect, shall we?

I still think Keaton will end up being announced. I think the timeline about early talks was off. That's what all the insiders were saying. Keaton is a lock...I'll just keep saying that and my devotion will make it true. Keaton is a lock. Keaton is a lock. Keaton is a lock!

I can't see Kilmer suiting up. If he does, it'll be because he wants to do it for a laugh rather than because the event organisers pressured him to. I'm thinking of his appearance on Life's Too Short.


There have been numerous rumours regarding DC movies over the past few months, and in three days' time we should finally learn which are true and which are false. Based on the reliability of the sources, my own questionable judgement and pure conjecture, here are my predictions regarding the veracity of some of those rumours.

Ryan Reynolds returning as Green Lantern for the JL Snyder Cut: FALSE

Ben Affleck returning as Batman for an HBO Max movie or miniseries: FALSE

Michael Keaton returning as Batman for The Flash: TRUE

Keaton appearing in some kind of mentor/Batman Beyond movie further down the line: TRUE

Johnny Depp playing the Joker in Batman Beyond: FALSE

Kilmer announcing an official extended cut of Batman Forever: TRUE

Tim Burton returning to the DC universe in some capacity: ...?

https://comicbook.com/dc/news/dc-fandome-schedule-changed-cancelled-movies-batman

Three days from the event and panels are being massively reorganized and rescheduled. The mass layoffs happened last week so I don't know that they have anything to do with these changes. Maybe some other shoe is about to drop?

It does seem odd to be making such drastic alterations to the schedule this close to the event. Hopefully it's because they've got more content than they'd realised, and not because of any technical problems or legal complications behind the scenes.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 19 Aug  2020, 14:34
If he does, it'll be because he wants to do it for a laugh rather than because the event organisers pressured him to. I'm thinking of his appearance on Life's Too Short.

That's my assessment too. I don't really care if he suits up or not, and nobody would be forcing him to do anything he doesn't want to. His joking tweet about wearing the suit shows he's the one teasing the idea, and the cynic in me assumes it's to cover up his neck. Really hoping there's a Schumacher Cut announcement.

The Hall of Heroes content is all going ahead as planned. All the other Explore The Multiverse stuff will be shown in September. I'm totally fine with that, and can see their reasoning. Let's face it, the great majority of people would binge Hall of Heroes and those encores, leaving everything else largely untouched on the table.

Vanity Fair is reporting that Affleck is returning. It's official with a statement from the director.

It mentions Keaton, but it's tacked on as though its official and it is not. Keaton is still a rumor, and I'm getting worried.

I think I'm steadily losing interest. (No offense intended to the Affleck fans.)

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Thu, 20 Aug  2020, 20:07
Vanity Fair is reporting that Affleck is returning. It's official with a statement from the director.

It mentions Keaton, but it's tacked on as though its official and it is not. Keaton is still a rumor, and I'm getting worried.

I think I'm steadily losing interest. (No offense intended to the Affleck fans.)

Andy Muschietti also confirms that Michael Keaton has a "substantial" role in the film.

QuoteMichael Keaton's Batman from the 1989 Tim Burton film is also set to appear in what Muschietti said was a "substantial" part.

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2020/08/ben-affleck-returns-batman-the-flash-multiverse-keaton

This is the first time he's acknowledged Keaton's involvement in the movie, which I guess makes it official. ;D

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu, 20 Aug  2020, 20:16

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Thu, 20 Aug  2020, 20:07
Vanity Fair is reporting that Affleck is returning. It's official with a statement from the director.

It mentions Keaton, but it's tacked on as though its official and it is not. Keaton is still a rumor, and I'm getting worried.

I think I'm steadily losing interest. (No offense intended to the Affleck fans.)

Andy Muschietti also confirms that Michael Keaton has a "substantial" role in the film.

QuoteMichael Keaton's Batman from the 1989 Tim Burton film is also set to appear in what Muschietti said was a "substantial" part.

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2020/08/ben-affleck-returns-batman-the-flash-multiverse-keaton

This is the first time he's acknowledged Keaton's involvement in the movie, which I guess makes it official. ;D

He does mention the retroactive inclusion of cinematic Batmen, I may have spoken in haste, but I want an actual official word that unveils Michael Keaton, not vaguely kinda sort of acknowledge that he's sort of in it. Or he is? And all it was an afterthought

EDIT: Forgive my outbursts. It does seem legit now, but it seems so 'oh yeah, that old guy.' They spend too much time shining Affleck's ass in my opinion. Nothing against the guy.

I think The Flash is going to serve as a send-off for Batfleck, with him passing the torch to a new DCEU Batman (most likely Keaton). There were two Batmen in the original Flashpoint comic, but judging from the Vanity Fair interview it sounds like the new movie might see Barry travelling through several alternate realities instead of just one and encountering multiple Batmen along the way. This raises the possibility that Kilmer, Bale and Pattinson could also appear. Perhaps a CG Adam West?

Muschietti's comments make it sound like Keaton's role will be bigger than just a cameo. The early reports of Keaton's involvement stated that the movie would end with Barry returning to his own universe expecting to find Batfleck, only to discover that Keaton has replaced him. The confirmation of Affleck's involvement would seem to support this.

At any rate, we'll learn more on Saturday. :D

Numerous outlets are now reporting that both Affleck and Keaton are returning, including Variety: https://variety.com/2020/film/news/ben-affleck-batman-the-flash-1234741992/


Bat-Keats and Batfleck are going to appear in the same film. Just let that sink in for a moment. Did you ever imagine you would see these two guys – not just the actors, but the characters – in the same movie?

Ben Affleck back as well? This is even better than we thought possible, and it seems like both Affleck and Keaton have SUBSTANTIAL roles. That brings both Affleck and Keaton up to three films each.

Even if the HBO Max Batfleck series doesn't happen (that could still be possible in the Snyder timeline), we have this and it's a heartwarming bonus. Who seriously thought this would happen? It shows Ben appreciates the character - he just rightfully hated the Whedon situation. The statement mentions Affleck as Bruce Wayne. I think it would include suiting up as well.

Very much agree with the prediction this is a handover film, establishing Keaton as the new DCEU Batman in what has been reported as an ONGOING mentor role, leaving the door open to Beyond.

The two best Batman ever in one movie. This is a golden age for the franchise.

I'm so happy right now. Batman fans can't lose.

I'm excited for it. Hell, bring Bale back for a cameo. Bring it on.

Multiverse, baby!

Keaton AND Affleck returning?! In the same movie?!

(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/61087202.jpg)

(https://68.media.tumblr.com/a6d1b14aa311af963ca3178846204f09/tumblr_o4em6cXk4H1rp0vkjo1_500.gif)

(https://i.gifer.com/1Vs.gif)

DC on film has made a stunning turnaround. It has really shined a light and made fans cope so much better, to what has been an otherwise terrible year for everything else in the world.

Unforgettable. Bring on the multiverse indeed.

Affleck fans are getting at least two new Batfleck movies: JL Snyder Cut and The Flash. Furthermore, the introduction of the Multiverse means the door will be open for Ben to return at a later time if he chooses to. No bridges are being burned here. The JL Snyder Cut and Flash movie are almost certainly going to surpass Suicide Squad (2016) and the theatrical cut of Justice League in terms of quality, in which case the true Batfleck Trilogy should be:

•   Batman v Superman
•   Justice League: Snyder Cut
•   The Flash

Keaton fans are getting at least one new Bat-Keaton film for the first time since 1992, with a very high probability of more to come. Again, I'd point out that the mysterious 'Beyond Batman' panel is scheduled for immediately after The Flash panel on Saturday.


If they confirm the Batman Beyond film is happening with Keaton... Oh boy.

Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Thu, 20 Aug  2020, 22:07
Keaton AND Affleck returning?! In the same movie?!

(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/61087202.jpg)

(https://68.media.tumblr.com/a6d1b14aa311af963ca3178846204f09/tumblr_o4em6cXk4H1rp0vkjo1_500.gif)

(https://i.gifer.com/1Vs.gif)

DC on film has made a stunning turnaround. It has really shined a light and made fans cope so much better, to what has been an otherwise terrible year for everything else in the world.

Unforgettable. Bring on the multiverse indeed.

(https://i.postimg.cc/N0HW77LB/Jack-Yes-Fast.gif)

Official concept art from The Flash FanDome panel.


Looks like the 1989 chest emblem.

Nah, that's the B89 suit. Look at the emblem, and it doesn't have that BR armor on the abs.

Keaton back in the suit, wearing a costume very reminiscent of what we know and love, CONFIRMED. And he'll be fighting. Logical to assume the guy has been fighting crime non stop for 30 years or more. How badass is that?

The concept art also confirms that he'll be wearing a traditional batsuit rather than Kingdom Come-style mech armour. This is exactly the sort of costume I was hoping he'd wear in The Flash. It looks perfect.


I'd love to see Keaton wear a mech suit in a future Justice League or Batman Beyond film, but they should save that for when he's too old to wear a more traditional costume. They can create the mech armour with digital effects and it would only require a few close-up shots of Keaton's face. For as long as he's still fit enough to don the classic cape and cowl, it makes sense to stick with the traditional iconic look.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sat, 22 Aug  2020, 21:00
The concept art also confirms that he'll be wearing a traditional batsuit rather than Kingdom Come-style mech armour. This is exactly the sort of costume I was hoping he'd wear in The Flash. It looks perfect.

(https://i.postimg.cc/wj2TX4Jb/keatonflash.png)

I'd love to see Keaton wear a mech suit in a future Justice League or Batman Beyond film, but they should save that for when he's too old to wear a more traditional costume. They can create the mech armour with digital effects and it would only require a few close-up shots of Keaton's face. For as long as he's still fit enough to don the classic cape and cowl, it makes sense to stick with the traditional iconic look.

Do you think they actually plan on using the 89 suit, or is this just something they're strictly using for concept art? I think it might be the latter.

I don't think this art necessarily reflects exactly what the final suit will look like, but it does give us an idea of the sort of designs they're contemplating. I expect the finished suit will be reasonably close to this – basically an improved version of the 1989 costume, perhaps incorporating elements (specifically the cowl) of the Returns suit.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 19 Aug  2020, 14:34
I can't see Kilmer suiting up. If he does, it'll be because he wants to do it for a laugh rather than because the event organisers pressured him to. I'm thinking of his appearance on Life's Too Short.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rF_MDb03dA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdmirGSNUoA

There have been numerous rumours regarding DC movies over the past few months, and in three days' time we should finally learn which are true and which are false. Based on the reliability of the sources, my own questionable judgement and pure conjecture, here are my predictions regarding the veracity of some of those rumours.

Ryan Reynolds returning as Green Lantern for the JL Snyder Cut: FALSE

Ben Affleck returning as Batman for an HBO Max movie or miniseries: FALSE

Michael Keaton returning as Batman for The Flash: TRUE

Keaton appearing in some kind of mentor/Batman Beyond movie further down the line: TRUE

Johnny Depp playing the Joker in Batman Beyond: FALSE

Kilmer announcing an official extended cut of Batman Forever: TRUE

Tim Burton returning to the DC universe in some capacity: ...?

They announced an extended cut of Batman Forever?!

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sat, 22 Aug  2020, 21:24
I don't think this art necessarily reflects exactly what the final suit will look like, but it does give us an idea of the sort of designs they're contemplating. I expect the finished suit will be reasonably close to this – basically an improved version of the 1989 costume, perhaps incorporating elements (specifically the cowl) of the Returns suit.

Yeah, that's what I am thinking too. Updated suit, but remaining clearly recognizable/distinguishable for Keaton's Burtonverse Batman.

Man, we got Keaton and Affleck coming back, and then Robert Pattinson's Batman is coming out after.

What a great day to be a Batman fan. I mean, damn.

Quote from: Travesty on Sun, 23 Aug  2020, 01:38
Man, we got Keaton and Affleck coming back, and then Robert Pattinson's Batman is coming out after.

What a great day to be a Batman fan. I mean, damn.

What I also think, is that Affleck's role will provide a TRUE AND HEARTFELT FINALE for his incarnation in a way that surpasses Bale. If they have a tragic, bittersweet type conclusion it's very hard to compete with that, as opposed to living happily ever after. Imagine if Batfleck gets closure with alternate reality Thomas, says goodbye to Ezra and others, and gets closed off from the multiverse forever as his own seperate timeline. I'm hoping for that - because it's emotional also doesn't rule out HBO Max shows with him.

I do think we're in a cinematic golden age right now.

This is definitely a golden age. I didn't even think half of this stuff would be possible. And we just got an excellent Joker movie 6-8 months ago.

I mean, I'm riding high right now. The only bummer, is the videogame department, and that's about it. And even that isn't terrible.

Quote from: Travesty on Sun, 23 Aug  2020, 01:38
Man, we got Keaton and Affleck coming back, and then Robert Pattinson's Batman is coming out after.

What a great day to be a Batman fan. I mean, damn.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sun, 23 Aug  2020, 01:45
What I also think, is that Affleck's role will provide a TRUE AND HEARTFELT FINALE for his incarnation in a way that surpasses Bale. If they have a tragic, bittersweet type conclusion it's very hard to compete with that, as opposed to living happily ever after. Imagine if Batfleck gets closure with alternate reality Thomas, says goodbye to Ezra and others, and gets closed off from the multiverse forever as his own seperate timeline. I'm hoping for that - because it's emotional also doesn't rule out HBO Max shows with him.

I do think we're in a cinematic golden age right now.

Nothing to add, quoting for agreeing, as happy and excited as anyone with this. Plus those great teaser/trailers for JL and The Batman.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sat, 22 Aug  2020, 21:24
I don't think this art necessarily reflects exactly what the final suit will look like, but it does give us an idea of the sort of designs they're contemplating. I expect the finished suit will be reasonably close to this – basically an improved version of the 1989 costume, perhaps incorporating elements (specifically the cowl) of the Returns suit.

Pretty much what I thought by seeing this concept art, an improved/updated version of Keaton's classic look from 89/BR.

Andy Muschietti posted this sketch on Instagram and tagged both Keaton and Affleck in the description.


The long ears and slightly Burtonesque chest emblem make me wonder if this is hinting at what Keaton's new batsuit might look like. Obviously it's not official concept art or anything like that, but it does offer insight into Muschietti's personal perspective on how the character should look.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Fri, 25 Sep  2020, 14:11
Andy Muschietti posted this sketch on Instagram and tagged both Keaton and Affleck in the description.

(https://i.postimg.cc/fbMnVrvj/batsuit.png)

The long ears and slightly Burtonesque chest emblem make me wonder if this is hinting at what Keaton's new batsuit might look like. Obviously it's not official concept art or anything like that, but it does offer insight into Muschietti's personal perspective on how the character should look.

Possibly, though the rumors I've heard is that the marketing people were pushing hard for the new suit to basically be the old suit. Slight changes so they can market it as BATMAN TM from THE FLASH (2022)TM, but similar enough to the old suits that they can push a nostalgia wave. In other words, they want to renew interests in buying the old stuff again, too. 

Not sure if this is the best thread for it but allegedly Christian Bale is being wooed to come back as Batman too.

This is starting to get... idk, weird. I mean, the Crisis Arrowverse crossover already looked amateurish af. But whatever, let the good times roll, I guess.

That won't play as well with Flashpoint tho. Flashpoint isn't Crisis. Flashpoint is Flashpoint. Flashpoint is basically an alternate universe where, essentially, one decision Barry unilaterally made had ripple effects he could never have imagined. The purpose Batman plays in that story is to serve as arguably the best example of just how drastically different the Flashpoint world was from what fans were used to. Bigger stuff would come along later, of course.

That was the whole point of it. So this idea of throwing all these other Batmen in there is just idiotic. I'm willing to bend the rules of the story to suit Keaton returning as Burton's Batman. But these rumors are true then it really looks like Flashpoint is going in a bizarre direction.

Over and above everything, Bale had his send-off with the character. Love or hate TDKRises, it puts a bow neatly around the Nolan trilogy and Bale's custodianship of the character. Namely, that Bale's Batman died in the nuclear blast. Bringing him back is just gilding the lily for that version of the character.

Meanwhile, Keaton never really got his swan song with the character. It makes a lot of sense to bring him back for an extended role in the film. And who knows, maybe that can serve as his big finale or maybe other appearances will follow. I'm open to either one.

We won't make these decisions, I know. But I'm not liking some of what I'm hearing right now.

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Mon, 28 Sep  2020, 14:12
Possibly, though the rumors I've heard is that the marketing people were pushing hard for the new suit to basically be the old suit. Slight changes so they can market it as BATMAN TM from THE FLASH (2022)TM, but similar enough to the old suits that they can push a nostalgia wave. In other words, they want to renew interests in buying the old stuff again, too.

Makes a ton of sense. Put me down for this idea, too.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon, 28 Sep  2020, 22:42
Not sure if this is the best thread for it but allegedly Christian Bale is being wooed to come back as Batman too.

The multiverse works well for Batfleck, because when you're a part of the Justice League it's creativity unchained. It's also a more fantastical world, but ideally I would probably prefer BatKeaton being his own thing in his own universe. But I'm not saying no to what I thought would be impossible: Keaton's return. So I'm embracing it, and think it'll be fun.

Bale coming back is something else though. I don't believe it at the moment, and IMO ideas are being thrown out there during a moment of speculative chaos.

It's of course possible a 'real world'  exists in a multiverse, but I don't think it plays that well. Like the Battinson series, keep it self-contained. I'm quite a big fan of TDK Rises now and like that being the final word on his timeline. Being approached is one thing, I'd be shocked if Bale agreed.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon, 28 Sep  2020, 22:42
Not sure if this is the best thread for it but allegedly Christian Bale is being wooed to come back as Batman too.

This is starting to get... idk, weird. I mean, the Crisis Arrowverse crossover already looked amateurish af. But whatever, let the good times roll, I guess.

That won't play as well with Flashpoint tho. Flashpoint isn't Crisis. Flashpoint is Flashpoint. Flashpoint is basically an alternate universe where, essentially, one decision Barry unilaterally made had ripple effects he could never have imagined. The purpose Batman plays in that story is to serve as arguably the best example of just how drastically different the Flashpoint world was from what fans were used to. Bigger stuff would come along later, of course.

That was the whole point of it. So this idea of throwing all these other Batmen in there is just idiotic. I'm willing to bend the rules of the story to suit Keaton returning as Burton's Batman. But these rumors are true then it really looks like Flashpoint is going in a bizarre direction.

Over and above everything, Bale had his send-off with the character. Love or hate TDKRises, it puts a bow neatly around the Nolan trilogy and Bale's custodianship of the character. Namely, that Bale's Batman died in the nuclear blast. Bringing him back is just gilding the lily for that version of the character.

Meanwhile, Keaton never really got his swan song with the character. It makes a lot of sense to bring him back for an extended role in the film. And who knows, maybe that can serve as his big finale or maybe other appearances will follow. I'm open to either one.

We won't make these decisions, I know. But I'm not liking some of what I'm hearing right now.

I understand your concerns and share them. The only thing I can offer is that maybe these are just what they sound like, brief cameos, and the primary Batmen of the story are Affleck (who by accounts is not actually going to be in it that much, the impression I'm getting is he will bookend the film and likely die) and Keaton, who is in the primary 'alternate' universe we will visit.

But, knowing WB, they might just over stuff the movie, but here's hoping.

Keaton has finally commented on his return as Batman during an interview with Jimmy Kimmel. Be warned, the interview contains a lot of political talk. The Batman discussion begins at 4:16.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 21 Oct  2020, 12:46
Keaton has finally commented on his return as Batman during an interview with Jimmy Kimmel.

I guess? I watched a few minutes and he basically said "Can't talk about it".

It's been all these months and if they're still trying to make a deal... I mean, wtf is going on? What's Keaton asking for here, a gold-plated Ferrari?

Otoh, I guess it's possible that they have made a deal but he's under some NDA gag order until an official whoopty doo announcement is allowed.

I guess filmmaking is a lot harder in the coof era.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 21 Oct  2020, 12:46Be warned, the interview contains a lot of political talk. The Batman discussion begins at 4:16.

Thx for the tip, I skipped ahead to 4:16. This whole "orange man orange" bit from late night shows was "getting old" three years ago.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 21 Oct  2020, 12:46
Be warned, the interview contains a lot of political talk. The Batman discussion begins at 4:16.

Thanks for the warning.

I'm okay with guarded responses about the project. It's early days. We know Keaton is back and we've seen the concept art. 

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 21 Oct  2020, 12:46
Keaton has finally commented on his return as Batman during an interview with Jimmy Kimmel. Be warned, the interview contains a lot of political talk. The Batman discussion begins at 4:16.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QxVYlK74e4&feature=emb_logo

Wish they talked about it more, but I guess we'll get more once he's cemented as being Batman again. It's a shame its so political (granted his Instagram is too) but I think we need a break from all the politics...

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 21 Oct  2020, 17:00

It's been all these months and if they're still trying to make a deal... I mean, wtf is going on? What's Keaton asking for here, a gold-plated Ferrari?

Otoh, I guess it's possible that they have made a deal but he's under some NDA gag order until an official whoopty doo announcement is allowed.

I guess filmmaking is a lot harder in the coof era.

If Keaton is sincere, and a deal still hasn't been made yet despite Muschietti saying otherwise and the concept art's release, then it's another embarrassment for WB. If he doesn't star in The Flash at all then it's another PR disaster for the studio.

I'm already annoyed and concerned about the news of Toby Emmerich now having consolidated power of HBO Max's WarnerMax production, and this news is bothering me too. I can't see why he can't confirm anything yet. What's the hold up?

Saw this on my phones news feed https://www.small-screen.co.uk/exclusive-michael-keaton-signed-bruce-wayne-hbo-max-batman-series/

Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Tue, 27 Oct  2020, 04:47
Saw this on my phones news feed https://www.small-screen.co.uk/exclusive-michael-keaton-signed-bruce-wayne-hbo-max-batman-series/

Assuming this is true, maybe this is why Keaton was so coy on Kimmel? Maybe he has a bigger role to play in his Batman comeback?

Like Affleck's HBO Max deal rumours, I'll only believe if it's officially confirmed. Fascinating rumours nonetheless.

The news, apparently official, is that Keaton is coming back as the official DCEU Batman.

https://twitter.com/LightsCameraPod/status/1346185226410717186

Don't screw this up, WB. I can forgive many things. But not screwing up Keaton as Batman.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon,  4 Jan  2021, 21:46
The news, apparently official, is that Keaton is coming back as the official DCEU Batman.

https://twitter.com/LightsCameraPod/status/1346185226410717186

Don't screw this up, WB. I can forgive many things. But not screwing up Keaton as Batman.

Don't believe everything you read. Until there is an official announcement by all parties from WB to Keaton and Affleck, take this with a massive grain of salt. The scoop is just a journalist making a guess.

Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Mon,  4 Jan  2021, 22:38

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon,  4 Jan  2021, 21:46
The news, apparently official, is that Keaton is coming back as the official DCEU Batman.

https://twitter.com/LightsCameraPod/status/1346185226410717186

Don't screw this up, WB. I can forgive many things. But not screwing up Keaton as Batman.

Don't believe everything you read. Until there is an official announcement by all parties from WB to Keaton and Affleck, take this with a massive grain of salt. The scoop is just a journalist making a guess.

I've gone back further and researched the journalist who is making an assertion about Keaton, and now I've even more skeptical about him. Brooks Barnes is the New York Times journalist who wrote this puff piece about DC Films head Walter Hamada a few weeks ago. It discusses the multiverse concept too.

https://web.archive.org/web/20210102113130/https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/27/business/media/dc-superheroes-movies.html

I've heard that Brooks himself is a DCEU detractor, but I haven't checked if that's true or not.

Regardless, if you read the article, it's nothing more about the same old narrative about DC/WB needing to catch up with Marvel (definitely not happening in this day and age), and clearly indicates WB definitely wishes it has nothing to do with ZSJL. Not only does it state that HBO Max financed ZSJL for additional photography, but Barnes claims "studio executives describing Snyde's HBO Max project as a storytelling cul-de-sac — a street that leads nowhere." To me, this reads like WB wishes it could try to keep the Snyder cut buried, but can't because of their higher-ups at AT&T.

Don't forget, WB president Toby Emmerich was the one who lied about the Whedon honouring Snyder's vision and acknowledging Snyder's vision coming to life would only hurt his ego and make him look bad. If he cared about his image then he shouldn't have lied about the whole saga in the first place then.

We'll see what happens in March. If ZSJL has successful viewing numbers and demand for a continuation grows, things we'll get heated.

Going back to the source of this "scoop" where this alleged news broke out.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eq68y9iXYAILrmy?format=jpg&name=medium)

At the very best, Keaton is going to do more than just The Flash, which is fantastic. But not even Barnes is saying Keaton is replacing Affleck as the DCEU Batman.

This reeks of somebody on Twitter misinterpreting what Barnes wrote, or this some insidious attempt at a hit piece here. Remember, Jason Momoa called the Frosty the Snowman announcement that he was reported to star in as false in an attempt to discourage Ray Fisher over speaking out his complaints in public. It wouldn't surprise me if somebody from WB got some blogs to use Keaton as an attempt to discourage the ZSJL fandom, which just had began their #RestoreTheSnyderVerse campaign a few days ago.

Brooks Barnes has now debunked the news.

Quote
Been offline (moving apartments) and return to see this Michael Keaton craziness. I was referring to the *one film* that Keaton has been announced as being in, not a set of his own Batman films. If I had info on him beyond "The Flash," I would have obviously put it in my article

https://www.twitter.com/brooksbarnesNYT/status/1346295818836271105

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon,  4 Jan  2021, 21:46
Don't screw this up, WB. I can forgive many things. But not screwing up Keaton as Batman.

There's talk a Keaton role in Flashpoint would be large, essentially making it a Batman movie. I'm all for that, especially if it became a one and done return.

Midnight's Edge has posted an interesting video on the current situation between Warner Bros and AT&T.


If all this is true, then it sounds as though the studio has a civil war on its hands like the one at Lucasfilm.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Tue,  5 Jan  2021, 22:40

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon,  4 Jan  2021, 21:46
Don't screw this up, WB. I can forgive many things. But not screwing up Keaton as Batman.

There's talk a Keaton role in Flashpoint would be large, essentially making it a Batman movie. I'm all for that, especially if it became a one and done return.

I'm hoping to see Keaton in at least two new DC films: firstly The Flash, where he'll be back in costume and actively fighting crime like he did in B89 and BR; then Batman Beyond (ideally with Burton involved so it can constitute the concluding chapter of his trilogy), where Bruce will take a backseat mentor role guiding the new Batman. But I don't want the Batgirl film to be the Batman Beyond movie, as some fans have speculated it might be. I don't mind Keaton making a cameo in Batgirl as well, but I want a proper Batman Beyond movie featuring Terry McGinnis and set in a futuristic Neo Gotham. If we get that as well as The Flash, then I'll be happy. The number of Bat-Keaton films will have doubled and he'll have starred in the same number of Batman movies as Chris Reeve starred in as Superman.

I also wouldn't object to a Justice League film, set after The Flash but before Batman Beyond, where Keaton appears in a leadership role before donning the Kingdom Come armour for the final battle. That would be fun. But I'd be content with just The Flash and Batman Beyond.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed,  6 Jan  2021, 19:09
I'm hoping to see Keaton in at least two new DC films: firstly The Flash, where he'll be back in costume and actively fighting crime like he did in B89 and BR; then Batman Beyond (ideally with Burton involved so it can constitute the concluding chapter of his trilogy), where Bruce will take a backseat mentor role guiding the new Batman. But I don't want the Batgirl film to be the Batman Beyond movie, as some fans have speculated it might be. I don't mind Keaton making a cameo in Batgirl as well, but I want a proper Batman Beyond movie featuring Terry McGinnis and set in a futuristic Neo Gotham. If we get that as well as The Flash, then I'll be happy. The number of Bat-Keaton films will have doubled and he'll have starred in the same number of Batman movies as Chris Reeve starred in as Superman.

I think it's still likely Keaton continues after Flashpoint, but feel Terry won't happen and he'll be substituted with a female lead.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu,  7 Jan  2021, 01:49I think it's still likely Keaton continues after Flashpoint, but feel Terry won't happen and he'll be substituted with a female lead.

She could be called Teri McGinnis in honour of Teri Garr who voiced Terry's mother in the original series... Or not.

One of my concerns is that if they do make a BB movie it'll be set in the present day in order to fit in with the rest of the DCEU. Batman Beyond really needs to be it's own thing and should be set in the future. It should take place no earlier than the late 2030s. Or better yet, in the 2040s like Blade Runner 2049.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu,  7 Jan  2021, 20:06
One of my concerns is that if they do make a BB movie it'll be set in the present day in order to fit in with the rest of the DCEU. Batman Beyond really needs to be it's own thing and should be set in the future. It should take place no earlier than the late 2030s. Or better yet, in the 2040s like Blade Runner 2049.

At this stage I'm more intrigued by the hypothetical concept of Flashpoint than Beyond. Seeing a BatKeaton who has been fighting crime continuously since 1992, side by side The Flash in an updated but familiar B89/BR suit? That's what dreams are made of. Anything after that in terms of being a mentor (and believe me, I love Bruce being a mentor) would be gravy.

With just the two films under his belt I already see comments online that he's the best. Imagine a nostalgic comeback done right. Wow. That would be real power. Get the B89 aesthetic and Batmobile in there, along with a script the fans want, and his stature would be even higher.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed,  6 Jan  2021, 19:09
Midnight's Edge has posted an interesting video on the current situation between Warner Bros and AT&T.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3ymkyTZ-i4

I literally LOL'd when I saw the Pattinson picture used in the thumbnail.

You got Michael Keaton and Ben Affleck looking cool and appropriate, with Robert Pattinson looking like he just walked out of a 2 day coke binge with John Holmes at Wonderland (underrated Val Kilmer movie, BTW).

Bad news: Keaton has said he still hasn't signed on for The Flash, and appears to express doubts of returning at all because of the Coronavirus.

https://geekvibesnation.com/michael-keaton-cast-some-doubt-on-returning-as-batman-for-the-flash/

Not gonna lie, after WB's disgraceful firing of Ray Fisher from the film and despicable hit piece today, I hope Keaton and Affleck leave. They don't deserve them, and the studio doesn't deserve any more success if they continue to drag fans and even actors through the mud.

I was under the impression that he was already official. It may have been an afterthought to Affleck, but he was announced as returning and the Flash director acknowledged him. Very disconcerting to say the least.

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Mon, 22 Mar  2021, 21:04
I was under the impression that he was already official. It may have been an afterthought to Affleck, but he was announced as returning and the Flash director acknowledged him. Very disconcerting to say the least.

So much groundwork seems to have been laid for Keaton's return. It would really mess things up if he bailed.

This isn't the first time Keaton had expressed uncertainty over appearing in The Flash, he wouldn't confirm his commitment on The Jimmy Kimmel Show late last year. Many people figured he was simply being coy, and probably still think so right now.

The problem is The Flash will start filming next month in the UK, which is one of the countries hit hardest by Coronavirus, as Keaton is anxious about. It makes no sense to still act so coy when production is right around the corner.

Read the full interview passage with Dateline makes me suspect he wants nothing to do with The Flash. Judge for yourselves:

Quote
DEADLINE: Reports have you putting on the Batsuit again for The Flash. Why?

KEATON: He asks, with three exclamation points and three question marks. Well, now that you put it that way, maybe you're right. Jesus, what am I thinking about?

DEADLINE: Oh, I'm not talking you out of it...cue the social media backlash against me.

KEATON: Well, now I'm nervous all of a sudden. No, now I'm thinking what a stupid freaking idea.

DEADLINE: It is going on 30 years. Men thicken over years. I am imagining you pulling out the suit and taking it to the dry cleaners to let it out so you can fit into it...

KEATON: That's hysterical. Yeah, like, there's a dry cleaner who handles everybody, all the superheroes. He's got a specialty business doing that. You show up and go...you return something and say, what is this? This is fu*king Spider-Man. This isn't mine. How come you gave me The Hulk's outfit?

DEADLINE: Worst, it's like in The Godfather when Don Corleone brings massacred son Santino's body to that coroner, saying, I need to work all your miracles. You bring that Batsuit in and say, man, you got to fit me in this damn thing. I need you to work all your magic.

KEATON: I don't know why I thought of this, but speaking of Italian, my favorite thing I'm watching now is that show on CNN with Stanley Tucci, who is in the film Worth with me. He's great in it and the show is my favorite thing to watch right now. We'll have to have a longer conversation about Worth, down the road. I don't know why I thought of it...

DEADLINE: To take the focus off you playing Batman again?

KEATON: That's right. No, you know what it is? I am needing a minute to think about it because I'm so fortunate and blessed, I got so much going on now. I'm really into work right now. I don't know why, but I am, and so, yeah, I mean, you know, to tell you the truth, somewhere on my iPad is an iteration of the whole Flash thing that I haven't had time yet...I called them and said, I have to be honest with you. I can't look at anything right now. I'm so deep into this thing I'm doing. Also, I'm prepping a thing I'm producing and getting ready to do down the road in the fall that I'll be in, and I feel responsible to that. So, yeah, there is that. I'm not being cute or coy. If I talked about it, I'll be just bullsh*tting you. I don't really know. I have to look at the last draft. To be honest with you, you know what worries me more than anything about all this stuff?

DEADLINE: What?

KEATON: It's Covid. I'm more concerned. I keep my eye more on the Covid situation in the UK than anything. That will determine everything, and so that's why I'm living outside the city here on 17 acres, staying away from everybody, because the Covid thing has got me really concerned. So, that's my first thing about all projects. I look at it and go, is this thing going to kill me, literally? And you know, if it doesn't, then we talk.

DEADLINE: So, we'll call the Batman reprise a strong possibility.

https://deadline.com/2021/03/michael-keaton-batman-the-trial-of-the-chicago-7-ramsey-clark-sag-ensemble-award-record-interview-1234719059/

If WB and the Muschiettis had overpromised Keaton's return and he doesn't make it after all, expect another huge backlash. You can't hype up a potential return for a fan favourite for nearly a year, even going so far as to make concept art to get fans excited...when the actor probably hasn't even signed the dotted line yet!

Amateur hour. But let's wait and see what happens next.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Tue, 23 Mar  2021, 05:07

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Mon, 22 Mar  2021, 21:04
I was under the impression that he was already official. It may have been an afterthought to Affleck, but he was announced as returning and the Flash director acknowledged him. Very disconcerting to say the least.

So much groundwork seems to have been laid for Keaton's return. It would really mess things up if he bailed.

Agreed, especially considering that the unspoken, yet somehow screamed at you fan-service piece they did on the Flash panel at DC FANDOM was little else than hype for Keaton's return. Any goodwill for the movie seemed dependent on Keaton coming back. Which, in conjunction with the giant announcement that Keaton and Affleck were in, seems to have jumped the gun. Kinda stupid for all concerned. Now, you have a studio that's essentially made promises that they can't keep because it is now painfully obvious that the talent had not signed on the line that was dotted. And I also have to agree with something stated above...that Keaton now seems not interested in doing this at all. Really not interested.

Jesus christ.....

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Tue, 23 Mar  2021, 15:03

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Tue, 23 Mar  2021, 05:07

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Mon, 22 Mar  2021, 21:04
I was under the impression that he was already official. It may have been an afterthought to Affleck, but he was announced as returning and the Flash director acknowledged him. Very disconcerting to say the least.

So much groundwork seems to have been laid for Keaton's return. It would really mess things up if he bailed.

Agreed, especially considering that the unspoken, yet somehow screamed at you fan-service piece they did on the Flash panel at DC FANDOM was little else than hype for Keaton's return. Any goodwill for the movie seemed dependent on Keaton coming back. Which, in conjunction with the giant announcement that Keaton and Affleck were in, seems to have jumped the gun. Kinda stupid for all concerned. Now, you have a studio that's essentially made promises that they can't keep because it is now painfully obvious that the talent had not signed on the line that was dotted. And I also have to agree with something stated above...that Keaton now seems not interested in doing this at all. Really not interested.

I'll be disappointed if it doesn't happen. Keaton is like this with sequels. Is he holding out for more money? Maybe not. I feel he has artistic integrity. It seems he even had to wrap his head around appearing in Batman Returns, feeling he would only be providing an imitation of a previous performance.

I think it's healthy to have scepticism about these types of projects. Is it the right thing to do? Mark Hamill and the old gang went down the rabbit hole and look what happened. If Keaton does sign the on the dotted line, that will carry a lot of weight for me in knowing he deems it worth his time, and legacy in the role. Because if he does return, this will be how he's largely remembered. You're only as good as your last project. 

I don't want to curse the outcome, but I still think he'll come sign on. The studio have long term plans hinging on it. The dread game can make people do wild things. I believe if they assure him their flu protocols are airtight he'll make the trip over to the UK. Any script changes he wanted could be accommodated.

And if not, we have the B89 comic series.

I'm guessing Keaton has signed on, but probably has a clause in his contract that allows him to drop out without getting sued if he deems the conditions unsafe. Just as many travel companies are currently offering cancellation cover because of COVID-19, I imagine actors are probably negotiating escape clauses in their contracts to protect themselves against litigation. In fairness to Keaton, he is turning 70 this year, which already places him well within the at-risk category, and he might also have some underlying health issues that increase his vulnerability. So he's wise to play it safe.

As far as the COVID-19 situation in the UK goes, I'd say the next couple of months would be a comparatively good time to shoot a movie here. Our vaccination campaign is far in advance of the rest of Europe (over 40% of the UK's adult population, myself included, have received their first dose of the vaccine, while in most of the other European countries the figure is about 12%) and our daily death toll has dropped dramatically. Earlier this year we were averaging over one and a half thousand deaths per day, but now it's down to double digits. A third wave is incoming, but it's not expected to hit us for a while yet.

I visited Leavesden Studios back in 2016, and it's not located in the centre of a busy city like London. It's actually on the outskirts of Watford, with plenty of fields and open country close by. It's only a few miles away from where the Batman '89 stately Wayne Manor scenes were shot. Keaton's age places him fairly high on the vaccine priority list, so if he hasn't received his first shot already he should be getting it soon. As long as he observes the usual safety precautions, he should be fine. But I understand his concerns and he's sensible to be cautious.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 24 Mar  2021, 20:21
I'm guessing Keaton has signed on, but probably has a clause in his contract that allows him to drop out without getting sued if he deems the conditions unsafe.

In their article about Ron Livingston replacing Billy Crudup as Henry Allen due to scheduling conflicts, Variety still says "The cast also includes Ben Affleck as Batman and Michael Keaton as Batman (from another dimension, as one does)."

According to Grace Randolph:

Quote
I hear #MichaelKeaton is gonna do #TheFlash after all!

Hallelujah!

Cause he's #Batman, dammit

Will cover when it becomes official.

https://www.twitter.com/GraceRandolph/status/1382765039254396931

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 24 Mar  2021, 20:21
I visited Leavesden Studios back in 2016, and it's not located in the centre of a busy city like London. It's actually on the outskirts of Watford, with plenty of fields and open country close by. It's only a few miles away from where the Batman '89 stately Wayne Manor scenes were shot.

Hopefully they're returning to that location given the close proximity. It's dawning on me just how insanely awesome it's going to be revisiting the B89 universe, regardless of anything else that's going on. The Burtonmobile is also teased to return. Which would be expected, but I'm still relieved.

The same design but a few new toys would be a nice touch.

https://cosmicbook.news/michael-keaton-batman-batmobile-flash

I'm bumping this thread for its one-year anniversary. A year ago today the first reports broke of Keaton's return. Some said it was too good to be true, but here we are, twelve months later, and it's definitely happening.


I just wanted to mark the occasion. ;D

In light of the one year anniversary, let me just say that one rumor that's been going around is obviously that Keaton's Batman will replace Affleck's Batman.

I love Affleck in the role. But if I could only have one actor as THE Batman, I'm happy that it's Keaton who is elbowing Affleck out of the way. If it had to happen, this is just about what I'd want.

Don't screw this up, WB. I'm not the one setting my expectations here; you are. You'd better hope you bring your A-game.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 22 Jun  2021, 20:28
In light of the one year anniversary, let me just say that one rumor that's been going around is obviously that Keaton's Batman will replace Affleck's Batman.

I love Affleck in the role. But if I could only have one actor as THE Batman, I'm happy that it's Keaton who is elbowing Affleck out of the way. If it had to happen, this is just about what I'd want.

This rumour was supposedly debunked months ago, but I wouldn't be surprised if that is the agenda.

And honestly, I think it is a TERRIBLE idea.

Sorry, I love Keaton's Batman too, but the idea of him replacing Affleck, at his age, makes no sense, and he would be limited in a mentor role. I'd only be keen on Keaton sticking around if he does it on his own terms. Not have him replace another Batman in Warner Butchers' lousy attempt to "fix" a universe they broke.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 22 Jun  2021, 20:28
Don't screw this up, WB. I'm not the one setting my expectations here; you are. You'd better hope you bring your A-game.

Really? After all the incompetence and blatant sabotage that they've been guilty of over the last few years, what hope is there that they will pull off such an already shoddy idea effectively? This studio is not only anti-fans, they're anti-creative too.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Tue, 22 Jun  2021, 17:35
I'm bumping this thread for its one-year anniversary. A year ago today the first reports broke of Keaton's return. Some said it was too good to be true, but here we are, twelve months later, and it's definitely happening.

(https://i.postimg.cc/P59gJnvW/keaton2021.png)

I just wanted to mark the occasion. ;D

Affleck is sensational and will always rank close to the top of my list. But when it comes to the foundations of my Batman fandom I have a simple motto: Keaton is King. I believe the only other actor who had the same historic power is the late Adam West. Which puts the importance of this return into perspective. It's Keaton's time to again show he IS Batman, even after all this time sitting dormant on the sidelines. I'm sure he can recapture the necessary mood. In that set photo you can see the intensity of Keaton's glare. He means business in this role.

Let's get nuts (preferably pistachios, almonds and macadamias).

I've been reading lots of rumours and alleged 'leaks' over the past few weeks from people claiming to have inside sources at WB. Much of this will be false information – possibly all of it – but some of it might be true. Here's a rundown of some of the more interesting claims I've read. Take all of this with a pinch of salt. I'm just repeating what others have said, so judge for yourselves whether or not it's true.

Firstly, Keaton's supposedly signed on to play Batman in at least five films. Probably more.

Secondly, Matt Reeves and Robert Pattinson allegedly refused to allow their Batman to be connected with the DCEU. This put WB in a bind. Affleck didn't want to continue in the role, and if they cast a new young actor it would invite direct – and most likely unfavourable – comparisons with Battinson. So they opted for an older Batman that they knew fans already loved.

---

One source is claiming that earlier reports of Batfleck dying in the opening act of The Flash are false, and that he shows up during the final battle, meets Keaton and fights alongside him. If true, this might be the result of reshoots inspired by the success of Spider-Man: No Way Home.

One leaker is claiming that the film's primary antagonist is the Speed Force itself, but that there are also three other villains, two of whom are local to the Burtonverse.

The final battle in The Flash, like the one in Flashpoint, is said to be epic. There are meant to be lots of cameos and Easter egg references. Don't be surprised if there are nods to other screen versions of Batman.

---

Some sources are claiming that the DCEU version of Dick Grayson is introduced in Batgirl. If true, this will be the adult version of the Robin seen in the mural photographed on set.


One source is claiming that Dylan O'Brien was offered the part, but I suspect that's just fan casting since he played Keaton's protégé in American Assassin.

While Keaton's playing one of the main leads in The Flash, effectively co-starring alongside Miller, his part in Batgirl is expected to be a smaller supporting role. It's unlikely he'll suit up, though there might be a short prologue or flashback scene showing a digitally de-aged Keaton battling Brendan Fraser's Firefly alongside Dick Grayson's Robin. Other than that though, he'll probably just appear as Bruce.

Keaton is rumoured to be shooting his scenes in Scotland this month, so set pics might appear online in the coming weeks.

---

Fans spotted Keaton's production assistant listed on this movie's IMDb page a while back, and since the credit still hasn't been removed many are taking it as confirmation that he is in the film. At least one source is claiming that Keaton definitely is in Aquaman 2, and that he secretly shot his scenes back when he was filming The Flash, as both movies were in production in the UK concurrently.

If Keaton is in this one, his role will most likely be a small Nick Fury-style cameo as Bruce Wayne, possibly during or after the end credits. The purpose of the cameo will be to pave the way for the new Justice League film.

If the rumours are true, then this will be Keaton's fifth movie appearance as Batman and his third DCEU film of 2022.

---

Some sources are claiming that a Nightwing solo movie will spin off from Batgirl and that Keaton will be involved. The extent of his involvement – whether he'll be playing a prominent supporting role as in Batgirl, or merely making a brief cameo – is unknown.

---

So far I've not seen any leaks claiming Keaton's involved with this. However, some sources are claiming that Captain Marvel is joining the eponymous team in the next Justice League film, and that's prompted fan conjecture that Keaton will make a Nick Fury-style cameo similar to the one in Aquaman 2. Again, to pave the way for the new Justice League movie. File this one under speculation.

---

There aren't many specific leaks about this movie so far, but at least one source claims that Keaton is involved in some capacity.

---

WB is still chasing that billion dollar JLA movie. If these leaks/rumours are true, then it sounds like most of the upcoming DCEU films are building up to this, with Keaton's Batman serving as the connective element much the way Nick Fury did during the MCU's first phase.

Supposedly the new film will have more of a Silver Age feel and will pit the Justice League against a cosmic threat.

Sources are claiming that the line-up will include Keaton's Batman (possibly as the leader), Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Captain Marvel and Supergirl, with Batgirl and Nightwing possibly showing up too. It sounds like Keaton will be one of the main stars of this film, as he is in The Flash, and there's a good chance he'll suit up again. If these claims are true, then I've got a feeling this will be his final Batman movie.

---

There are still no leaks or insider reports on this one. It wouldn't fit in with the current Justice League plan, so it probably isn't happening. Not for now at least. But it's possible they might do it at a later time, once the current Justice League slate has been completed, though that's purely speculation on my part. The Bruce Wayne in Batman Beyond is meant to be in his eighties when he trains Terry, so there's still time for Keaton to do it further down the line. But right now, it doesn't seem to be happening.

---

Like I say, this information is all just rumour, speculation and alleged leaks, so it's possible none of it is true. But I think some of it might be. I imagine most fans of the Burton Batman would have been happy with just a standalone Batman Beyond flick, but there it is. We'll just have to wait and see what happens.

Artist Rudy Ao shared this image on social media inspired by Bat-Keaton's new costume.

So it seems Ben Affleck is going to be in Aquaman 2 as well. I wonder whats going on!

https://variety.com/2022/film/news/michael-keaton-batman-movies-bruce-wayne-1235330293/

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FZGM_mVXwAAYeLw?format=jpg)

We've all said our piece about the Ezra disappointment. But after reading a more detailed plot description of The Flash, which I'm inclined to believe - or want to believe at the very least, I still want to see the movie. If this plot was followed I'd be right on board with most of it, all things considered. Keaton's Batman comes off better in this outline. He agets to kick ass when rescuing Supergirl, and apparently flies the B89 Batwing, or something similar to it, into battle with guns blazing. At the end of that battle Batman is shown to be injured, not dead but you presume he will. He appears at the end and the manner of his survival left up to speculation. I greatly prefer this depiction rather than having his neck snapped repeatedly.  This movie will probably be Keaton's largest role in the comeback, so there's that hook. His appearance in Batgirl is apparently very minimal. So was his original screen time in Aquaman 2.

Quote from: The Joker on Tue,  2 Aug  2022, 03:02


https://variety.com/2022/film/news/michael-keaton-batman-movies-bruce-wayne-1235330293/

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FZGM_mVXwAAYeLw?format=jpg)

They misspelled "PAYCHECK" as "WRITING."

Quote from: Kamdan on Tue,  2 Aug  2022, 18:42
They misspelled "PAYCHECK" as "WRITING."

;D :D

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Tue,  2 Aug  2022, 10:56
We've all said our piece about the Ezra disappointment. But after reading a more detailed plot description of The Flash, which I'm inclined to believe - or want to believe at the very least, I still want to see the movie. If this plot was followed I'd be right on board with most of it, all things considered. Keaton's Batman comes off better in this outline. He agets to kick ass when rescuing Supergirl, and apparently flies the B89 Batwing, or something similar to it, into battle with guns blazing. At the end of that battle Batman is shown to be injured, not dead but you presume he will. He appears at the end and the manner of his survival left up to speculation. I greatly prefer this depiction rather than having his neck snapped repeatedly.  This movie will probably be Keaton's largest role in the comeback, so there's that hook. His appearance in Batgirl is apparently very minimal. So was his original screen time in Aquaman 2.

Those plot points have been verified by multiple sources, so this appears to be the version of the movie that exists right now. Of course the studio might make alterations in response to the Ezra situation, but I can't imagine Keaton's scenes will change much between now and then.

A few other interesting titbits from the leaked plot: (SPOILERS) When the two Barrys first arrive at Wayne Manor they find Bruce cooking spaghetti in the kitchen. Bruce has long hair and a beard, and it's during this scene that he says the "Do you wanna get nuts?" line. He then proceeds to fight the two Barrys using kitchen utensils as improvised weapons. The Barrys later explore Wayne Manor and the Batcave, and at one point they find the Joker's laughing bag from the end of the 1989 film. There's a sequence where Batman and the two Barrys go to a military facility in search of Superman, which leads to an action scene in which Batman takes down numerous armed soldiers. All the descriptions of this sequence describe Keaton as being "badass", with at least one account claiming that he's even more badass in The Flash than he was in his earlier films. As TDK already said, Keaton uses some variation of the Batwing during the final battle. I don't think he fights Zod directly, but it sounds like he might take on some of the other Kryptonians. He's injured during this battle, but doesn't necessarily die. (END SPOILERS)

Well, there goes Batgirl
https://www.superherohype.com/movies/517510-report-warner-bros-discovery-cancels-hbo-maxs-batgirl-movie

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Tue,  2 Aug  2022, 21:06Of course the studio might make alterations in response to the Ezra situation, but I can't imagine Keaton's scenes will change much between now and then.

In light of the Batgirl news, I'm a lot less confident about this statement.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Tue,  2 Aug  2022, 21:06
(SPOILERS) When the two Barrys first arrive at Wayne Manor they find Bruce cooking spaghetti in the kitchen. Bruce has long hair and a beard, and it's during this scene that he says the "Do you wanna get nuts?" line. He then proceeds to fight the two Barrys using kitchen utensils as improvised weapons. The Barrys later explore Wayne Manor and the Batcave, and at one point they find the Joker's laughing bag from the end of the 1989 film. There's a sequence where Batman and the two Barrys go to a military facility in search of Superman, which leads to an action scene in which Batman takes down numerous armed soldiers. All the descriptions of this sequence describe Keaton as being "badass", with at least one account claiming that he's even more badass in The Flash than he was in his earlier films. As TDK already said, Keaton uses some variation of the Batwing during the final battle. I don't think he fights Zod directly, but it sounds like he might take on some of the other Kryptonians. He's injured during this battle, but doesn't necessarily die. (END SPOILERS)

SPOILER TALK

Hmmm. Sounds better than the previous descript I read where Keats gets killed continually like he's Kenny from South Park. Cool to read that Jack Nicholson's Joker at least gets a nod via the laughing bag. Action scenes against armed soldiers and with the Batwing sound interesting. Still, I'll gladly just consider the Batman'89 comic, "The Flash", and maybe if we ever see the Keaton scenes from "Batgirl" included as a extra of sorts (I would say on The Flash blu ray, if it even gets released and if Ezra doesn't have even more shenanigans up his sleeve between now and the tentative release date), to just be Elseworldsy tales involving the Burtonverse if we could JUST get a worthwhile and proper coda with Keaton in "Batman Beyond" for christ's sakes.

Supposedly, David Zaslav isn't absolutely averse to DC films taking place outside of the main DCEU timeline (The Batman 2, Joker 2), but generally wants to cut back on the overall seperate multiverse concept Walter Hamada was going with. A Burtonverse Beyond could easily be a justifiable "third" option outside of Phillips/Reeves. Keaton's the right age. Fans have been interested in a live action Batman Beyond movie for decades now. Do it, WBD.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Tue,  2 Aug  2022, 21:52

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Tue,  2 Aug  2022, 21:06Of course the studio might make alterations in response to the Ezra situation, but I can't imagine Keaton's scenes will change much between now and then.

In light of the Batgirl news, I'm a lot less confident about this statement.

Wow, rly? In light of the Batgirl news, I'm MORE confident. If WBD/Zaslov is willing to throw a mostly finished film out the window because reasons, what chance does anyone think The Flash has of escaping unscathed? I'm not predicting anything. But if we read the tea leaves, it looks like someone high up the food chain is ready, willing, able and eager to make big decisions.

Quote from: The Joker on Tue,  2 Aug  2022, 22:13
Supposedly, David Zaslav isn't absolutely averse to DC films taking place outside of the main DCEU timeline (The Batman 2, Joker 2), but generally wants to cut back on the overall seperate multiverse concept Walter Hamada was going with. A Burtonverse Beyond could easily be a justifiable "third" option outside of Phillips/Reeves. Keaton's the right age. Fans have been interested in a live action Batman Beyond movie for decades now. Do it, WBD.

This times a billion. Batman Beyond is all most of us ever really wanted from Keaton's return. Warner Bros Discovery is disappointing everyone right now, but one way they could placate our corner of the fan base is to make the BB movie. Don't connect it with the DCEU. Make it a one-off sequel to the Burton films. Bring back Burton, at least in a producer's role. Bring back Elfman. Give Keaton one last send off. That's all we want.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue,  2 Aug  2022, 23:04Wow, rly? In light of the Batgirl news, I'm MORE confident. If WBD/Zaslov is willing to throw a mostly finished film out the window because reasons, what chance does anyone think The Flash has of escaping unscathed? I'm not predicting anything. But if we read the tea leaves, it looks like someone high up the food chain is ready, willing, able and eager to make big decisions.

That's what I meant. In my earlier comment, which I posted before I'd read the Batgirl news, I wrote that I didn't think Keaton's role in The Flash would undergo major alteration this late in the game. But now – anything goes.

I wouldn't be shocked if Keaton walked away from the franchise altogether. He's shot three films for the DCEU, and two of those three performances are not being released. If they ask him to come back and reshoot his one remaining performance, he might just say 'I'm too old for this' and call it quits. I wouldn't blame him. It doesn't look good for an actor to work on a major motion picture and then have his performance replaced with that of another actor. People in the industry will be wondering what happened: was he difficult to work with, or was his performance just bad? Even if it's neither of those things, suspicions will abound. This sort of situation can't be good for any actor's career.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed,  3 Aug  2022, 10:17That's what I meant. In my earlier comment

Misunderstanding, my bad.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed,  3 Aug  2022, 10:17I wouldn't be shocked if Keaton walked away from the franchise altogether. He's shot three films for the DCEU, and two of those three performances are not being released. If they ask him to come back and reshoot his one remaining performance, he might just say 'I'm too old for this' and call it quits. I wouldn't blame him. It doesn't look good for an actor to work on a major motion picture and then have his performance replaced with that of another actor. People in the industry will be wondering what happened: was he difficult to work with, or was his performance just bad? Even if it's neither of those things, suspicions will abound. This sort of situation can't be good for any actor's career.

Never considered this. But you're right, this could unintentionally reflect badly on Keaton. Esp after his concern about being reluctant to work on any film set due to COVID that made the news.

If I'm Keaton, then right about now I'm regretting ever blowing the dust off this character in the first place. From his standpoint, this whole thing has to have been a complete fiasco.

I don't know what happens next and like colors I'm not going to predict anything anymore. We were talking about The Flash being moved to HBO Max, but instead it's Batgirl that gets memory holed forever. I just can't believe this is where we are at. Since the JL and SS reshoots things have only become worse, and the fact it's Michael Keaton's Batman getting screwed over hurts even more. That's why I don't see this reflecting on him much at all. These games are the DCEU trend. He just recently entered in to it.

I think this goes to show the mess of constructing interconnected jigsaws rather than focusing on standalone adventures a studio truly believes in. Stories are make believe, but if entire arcs are redone to accomodate modified release schedules and reshoots my enthusiasm can't help but wane. Part of that is I like to believe 'This Is What Was Planned and This Is What Actually Happened'. What we actually receive, if it even gets released, is just what they settled on at the time after months of tinkering. The canon can't help but feel unclean. Especially if they go the whole hog and reshoot elements of The Flash.

I don't really care about the welfare of actors in this struggling economy, but investing the time to shoot a feature film only to have it scrapped completely is savage. As a fan it's pretty sad, and much more than I thought. I think it's the childhood connection to the Burton films that amplifies the damage, and the fact I was warming up to the outline of The Flash just yesterday. Just goes to show we never really know what's around the corner.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed,  3 Aug  2022, 10:17
This times a billion. Batman Beyond is all most of us ever really wanted from Keaton's return. Warner Bros Discovery is disappointing everyone right now, but one way they could placate our corner of the fan base is to make the BB movie. Don't connect it with the DCEU. Make it a one-off sequel to the Burton films. Bring back Burton, at least in a producer's role. Bring back Elfman. Give Keaton one last send off. That's all we want.

Couldn't really agree more.

The recent action of deleting Michael Keaton (Aquaman 2 scene, the entire Batgirl film) from the originally agreed upon multi-film deal with the DCEU is coming across as a design of sorts to just phase out Keaton's participation. Which would have been Hamada's DCEU main Batman. All that's appears to be completely out the window now, but a " Batman Beyond" is still feasible as a one off swan song like you said. Or if not a "Beyond" movie, a "Batman 3" bookend. Keaton's "LOGAN" so to speak. 

Quote
I wouldn't be shocked if Keaton walked away from the franchise altogether. He's shot three films for the DCEU, and two of those three performances are not being released. If they ask him to come back and reshoot his one remaining performance, he might just say 'I'm too old for this' and call it quits. I wouldn't blame him. It doesn't look good for an actor to work on a major motion picture and then have his performance replaced with that of another actor. People in the industry will be wondering what happened: was he difficult to work with, or was his performance just bad? Even if it's neither of those things, suspicions will abound. This sort of situation can't be good for any actor's career.

All of that makes a ton of sense, which could very well be the case right now with Keaton's perspective. If, and it's a big IF, WBD floats the idea of a Burtonverse bookend/coda/farewell unnamed Batman project to Keaton, especially after all of this, getting Burton involved would probably be mandatory at this stage in order to honestly entice Keaton at this point. Those two guys like to collaborate and work together (along with guarantees that the film would actually be released, ect). That much is certain. Plus, the news and attention of those two reuniting for a Batman movie would be pretty substantial. A one-two punch so to speak. Otherwise, from Keaton's POV and ego, why waste time filming more "lost media"?

Not a prediction, but just thinking aloud - what if we're seeing the forced closure of the DCEU right now? Word is that Ezra Miller won't be retained going forward. If The Flash isn't scrapped altogether I can envision reshoots happening for the end segments, making Keaton one and done. And not requiring any version of recasted version of the Flash to appear later to save Batfleck from the trapped universe. Because as is, I'd say The Flash is the only character that makes sense doing that. Altering Aquaman 2's release schedule and making it a Flash tie-in works in with my theory. Until we hear what comes next, they're not blowing up the balloon. They're popping it.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed,  3 Aug  2022, 20:26Word is that Ezra Miller won't be retained going forward.

Really? But he seems like such a nice guy!

/s

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed,  3 Aug  2022, 20:26Not a prediction, but just thinking aloud - what if we're seeing the forced closure of the DCEU right now?

At this point, it's probably best to just scrap the DCEU altogether, let Pattinson be his own unique separate thing and create a new (but Batmanless) shared DC universe for film with none of the barnacles of the past getting in the way.

I mean, yes, that means throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Gadot and Momoa (both of whom seem largely adored in their roles) can be let go and replaced with other actors because the message must be This Is New.

Of course, I sort of wonder if even that might be a Band-Aid on a bullet wound since (I think) the comic book craze is on its last legs. But if this genre has any life left in it at all and if WB wants to profit by it, now is the time to make big decisions. Fortune favors the bold and after all these decades of chaos with a side of mismanagement, it's high time for some real leadership to step in and make the hard decisions.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed,  3 Aug  2022, 20:53
Really? But he seems like such a nice guy!

/s

Turns out, gambling on Ezra Miller not being on trial for grooming/GTA/Ect the same very month "The Flash" would be released is a bad bet.

QuoteAt this point, it's probably best to just scrap the DCEU altogether, let Pattinson be his own unique separate thing and create a new (but Batmanless) shared DC universe for film with none of the barnacles of the past getting in the way.

I mean, yes, that means throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Gadot and Momoa (both of whom seem largely adored in their roles) can be let go and replaced with other actors because the message must be This Is New.

Yeah, I don't really foresee that happening. Anything is possible, but that's a long shot, and one hell of a unenviable task. Batfleck was brought back for a specific reason that we're currently not privy to. Gadot is this generation's Wonder Woman, and you don't get rid of the guy who single handedly did for the perception of Aquaman what Robert Downey Jr. did for Iron Man. Cavill? That message was already recently sent loud and clear. It's WBD's folly if they choose to stick their heads in the sand (much like the Hamada's crew) when it comes to the DCEU.

Course, hey, a full blown reboot could work? Or it could very well succeed into a absolute failure ala New52 Electric Boogaloo. Choose wisely.

Right now, I've taken the position that anything seemingly inexplicable that WB does needs to be viewed in the lens of new management coming in and taking out the trash. If there wasn't a merger with Discovery, "Batgirl" would undoubtedly still be coming out after extensive and expensive reshoots, because WB already spent millions on the project, not finishing it would just be wasting that money (you know, classic sunk cost fallacy).

Discovery, alternatively, did not pay 70 million to fund this movie. In their view, every dollar they put into it is a dollar lost. Therefore, they have literally zero qualms about shelving it.

The negative thing about "Batgirl" and possibly "The Flash", is once a project is written off in this fashion, WBD would not legally be allowed to release it, period, since WBD would have essentially functionally declared it the equivalent of broken equipment. You would pretty much need some insider to release a workprint/torrent for audiences to see what exactly they were....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sXHQKJwOMA

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed,  3 Aug  2022, 20:53
At this point, it's probably best to just scrap the DCEU altogether, let Pattinson be his own unique separate thing and create a new (but Batmanless) shared DC universe for film with none of the barnacles of the past getting in the way.

I say throw it all out through the bathroom window which is no longer protected by a silver spoon. Momoa, Gadot and the others can suck their thumb and wonder by the banks of their own lagoon. DC works best when they're delivering self contained live action films, and they can do it. The Batman and JOKER are proof. Those properties are what need to be protected and elevated. If I were in charge I'd abandon the shared universe altogether. Or not rush in to it. I'm sad Keaton's return had to be during this particular timeline. But it is what it is.

Quote from: The Joker on Wed,  3 Aug  2022, 21:32

QuoteAt this point, it's probably best to just scrap the DCEU altogether, let Pattinson be his own unique separate thing and create a new (but Batmanless) shared DC universe for film with none of the barnacles of the past getting in the way.

I mean, yes, that means throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Gadot and Momoa (both of whom seem largely adored in their roles) can be let go and replaced with other actors because the message must be This Is New.

Yeah, I don't really foresee that happening. Anything is possible, but that's a long shot, and one hell of a unenviable task. Batfleck was brought back for a specific reason that we're currently not privy to. Gadot is this generation's Wonder Woman, and you don't get rid of the guy who single handedly did for the perception of Aquaman what Robert Downey Jr. did for Iron Man. Cavill? That message was already recently sent loud and clear. It's WBD's folly if they choose to stick their heads in the sand (much like the Hamada's crew) when it comes to the DCEU.

Course, hey, a full blown reboot could work? Or it could very well succeed into a absolute failure ala New52 Electric Boogaloo. Choose wisely.

I agree, and let's get real: there is no way that WBD would reboot the entire DC shared film universe without Batman - the most popular character in their IP. Big money would be left behind on the table if they were to do that.

Besides, if we take David Zaslav's word for granted, he has gone on record wanting more content from DC's Trinity, and seemingly implied he wants to sell more films with them together. I'm not saying it's guaranteed that Cavill, Affleck and Gadot are going to reunite, but what I am saying is he won't omit Batman to satisfy agendas of a self-contained reboot.

I think the reasons for Affleck's participation in Aquaman is going to be critical.

Burn it to the ground!

(https://media4.giphy.com/media/5nsiFjdgylfK3csZ5T/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47dtkn9alpo3qibs7zfr95ri25hn1rl8bvtsu02oj3&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)

I'm someone who believes in the big screen experience for a variety of reasons. So Zaslav's view that if it's made for streaming it's being karate chopped is music to my ears. I don't care how much money was invested in making the movie - Batgirl originating as a direct to streaming product cheapened its reputation in my eyes. Zaslav made a point about that thought too - "[being released in cinemas] builds a brand so when it does go to a streaming service there's a view that the title has a higher quality that benefits the streaming service." This is a big win for directors like Nolan who hated the rush to streaming. It was a rabbit hole that wasn't going to lead anywhere good.

Keaton (?) in Batgirl
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FZZV9_-XoAETyPX?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

Also a small glimpse
(https://i.postimg.cc/rFbPVm7f/FZW38-E-Xg-AAOgui.jpg)

https://www.joblo.com/batgirl-footage-deleted/

well then....

Deleted from, like, some FTP server is one thing. Doesn't sound like the footage itself was deleted. I'm not even sure how legal that would be, honestly.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 23 Aug  2022, 22:19
Deleted from, like, some FTP server is one thing. Doesn't sound like the footage itself was deleted. I'm not even sure how legal that would be, honestly.

Sounds like that or they're just locked out. The idea of archiving it with their phone sounds kinda funny.

tinfoilhat

Snyder had all or most of his cut in his own possession for quite a few years there. Trickling out screenshots was a major element of whipping the RTSC crowd into action.

Did WB lock the directors out specifically to stop them from doing something similar?

/tinfoilhat

Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Tue, 23 Aug  2022, 18:35
https://www.joblo.com/batgirl-footage-deleted/

well then....

I'm guessing Snyder had bad vibes on set and in discussions with the studio for a period of time and thus made contingencies. It doesn't seem like the Batgirl situation was anything like that. Just an abrupt end with the creative teams caught off guard, and thus unable to do anything about it. I'm feeling confident this was to kill the Batgirl movie stone cold, making any fan movements null and void. The movie is gone.

Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Tue, 23 Aug  2022, 22:29

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 23 Aug  2022, 22:19
Deleted from, like, some FTP server is one thing. Doesn't sound like the footage itself was deleted. I'm not even sure how legal that would be, honestly.

Sounds like that or they're just locked out. The idea of archiving it with their phone sounds kinda funny.

Yeah, I think it's more than likely their access to the footage was revoked, and I agree with colors about the legal ramifications of deleting every single bit of footage. Unless somebody can prove otherwise, of course.

But then again, I didn't think the Snyder cut existed back in early 2018 and thought that entire scenario was legally impossible...so what do I know?

I wonder if Keaton will be asked any questions about Batgirl's cancellation if he promotes The Flash?

A kids' cosplay replica of Keaton's new Batsuit is currently sold at Walmart...under the B89 brand licensing.

(https://i.imgur.com/X3AkDk2.jpg)

Gotta be honest, it's very strange to see new merch coming out with that old 1989 iconography. Never thought that would ever happen.

So I guess they're ditching the yellow belt?

Quote from: Travesty on Thu, 25 Aug  2022, 13:38
So I guess they're ditching the yellow belt?

As part of the new design.

The gray belt made me wonder if that's a soft acknowledgement that the Schumacher era happened to this iteration of the character.

Or it could just be a bizarre coincidence.

It might have been already discussed, but rumour has it Keaton's appearance in the ending has been removed, including Sasha Calle. Not only has Gunn confirmed he wants a new actor for a Batman movie under his supervision (if it ever gets off the ground), he is reportedly ordering the removal of scenes involving Cavill's Superman, Gadot's Wonder Woman and Momoa's Aquaman. All but Momoa no longer have a future going forward.

From going to replacing Batfleck to now seeing his latest appearance as a one-and-done deal. I was never keen on the idea of Batfleck, because A) both are favourites and B) Keaton's role would've diminished over time due to age. But I am still disappointed that Keaton's comeback could've been for a new Batman chapter, whether it was a BR sequel or Batman Beyond, only to instead be used as a pawn - together with Affleck - for a lousy attempt at a wider DC reboot.

A massive missed opportunity.

That is a sort of gnarly looking cake. I hope they got a partial refund.

As I was implying in another thread - after reading Gunn's derogatory comments about Keaton's performance as Batman, B89 as a film overall, and going so far as to say B&R is better, I'm convinced the Clooney cameo was a deliberate choice by Gunn to spite Keaton. Keeping him killed off and having Clooney replace him in the ending certainly feels that way, in light of what we know now.

I never would've expected that Keaton would join the likes of Cavill, Affleck, Fisher and so on as the latest actor to get screwed over by WB/DC management.

Honestly, I envy Nolan. He got to do the Batman movies he wanted to do. He got the royal treatment because of lessons from Schumacher. His Batman is still standalone and untouched from all this drama and most people still realy love his films.

Sorry for the double post but somone on youtube noticed somthing interesting. Not once did Michael Keaton reffer to himself as Bruce Wayne. Even when asked who he was he responded ""I'm the guy who lives here".

He does however refer to himself as Batman (obviously for nostalgia).

Tomorrow, February 4th, is the Saturn Awards, and Michael Keaton has been nominated for 'Best Supporting Actor' for his role as Batman in The Flash. I doubt he'll win, as he's up against Ryan Gosling in Barbie and Robert Downey Jr. in Oppenheimer. Still, it's nice he got a nomination. The only other actor to receive recognition from the Academy of Science Fiction, Fantasy and Horror Films for playing Batman was Christian Bale, who won a Saturn Award for Batman Begins and was nominated for both The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises.

Aren't Saturn Awards for sale? I'm pretty sure Golden Globes are for sale but if I'm not mistaken, you can basically buy a Saturn Award.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat,  3 Feb  2024, 17:46Aren't Saturn Awards for sale? I'm pretty sure Golden Globes are for sale but if I'm not mistaken, you can basically buy a Saturn Award.

I wouldn't be surprised if that were so.

In any event, Keaton didn't win. They gave the award to Nicolas Cage for his performance in Renfield.

Coincidentally, the only award The Flash has won so far is the San Diego Film Critics Society Award for 'Best Body of Work', which went to Nicolas Cage. Cage appeared in six films in 2023, and all counted towards his win. Including his brief appearance in The Flash.

The Hawaii Film Critics Society had The Flash nominated for 'Worst Film of the Year'. I'm surprised the Golden Raspberry Awards didn't nominate it in any categories. I would've thought the two Ezras would've been a lock for 'Worst Screen Combo'.