And here...we.....GO!
EvilTwin120, the BOF poster who played a huge role in bringing the B89 Influences thread to life, cited this one:
http://www.batman-on-film.com/a-jokers-dozen-part10_rreineke_7-5-08.html
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The scars on Bruce's back, like in Begins, have been established in the comics.
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Harvey cites the double-sided coin as his father's lucky coin. Those in-the-know may read a darker side into that line considering that, in stories like Eye of the Beholder, Crime and Punishment, and The Long Halloween, Harvey's father used to beat him as a kid using the trick coin. Harvey lost the coin toss and his father always beat him.
Also, in that scene, Albert Rossi tries to shoot Dent. This may be a slight nod to the Two-Face origin in the comics in which Boss Maroni assaulted Dent in court by throwing acid in his face. In Eye of the Beholder, Maroni requests a gun to be smuggled in, but since it wouldn't be able to go through the metal detectors, he is given the acid, instead.
In the 1970s comics, Bruce Wayne also had a penthouse apartment in Gotham.
Both Eye of the Beholder and The Long Halloween establish Harvey Dent, Jim Gordon, and Batman as a powerful triumvirate against criminals. In both, Batman disappears after his first rooftop meeting with Harvey. In The Long Halloween, Gordon addresses Harvey's shock by saying, "He does that."
The line, "I believe in Harvey Dent," is right out of The Long Halloween.
The Long Halloween also had Two-Face bald on the scarred side of his face. For a majority of the comics, Two-Face's hair is simply a different color on the other side.
Like Batman Begins, and I found this unexpected, is that there is a lot of Batman Year One in here, particularly the ending of Year One.
In that, Bruce Wayne goes out on a motorcycle (similar to what he does during Commissioner Loeb's funeral) as mobsters (under the comic book Commissioner Loeb's orders) kidnap James Gordon's son and take his wife hostage. Later, the fight moves off to a bridge and, while Gordon is fighting a mobster, Gordon's son is dropped and Bruce moves in to save him.
The film carried over putting Gordon's family in danger and bringing Batman to a rescue.
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The sonar device that tapped into all cell phone conversations was inspired by the Brother Eye satellite that Batman established in the OMAC storyline. This was confirmed in a podcast interview with screenwriter Jonathan Nolan, which you download at the following link:
http://creativescreenwritingmagazine.blogspot.com/
And last but not least, I'm sure people are curious about The Joker.
This Joker, like Nicholson's, took cues from Batman #1. He also announced his intended crimes on the airwaves.
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He disguised himself as a police officer to make a kill, as well as planted poison to kill off a police official. In the comic, he puts a poison dart or needle, I believe, in the phone. When the police chief picks up the phone, the Joker laughs loudly. The sound vibration then makes the chief exposed to the poison.
Also, like in Burton's Batman, this film was very influenced by The Killing Joke. The main premise of that comic is that Joker wants to prove that it only takes one bad day to turn the sanest man into a lunatic like him. He tortures James Gordon and tries to drive him insane, but he fails, whereas in The Dark Knight, his ideology succeeds in swaying Harvey Dent to the dark side. The Joker's dialogue at the end about Dent is very much in line with what the Joker says to Batman in the comic.
Also in that comic, Joker says that if he were to prefer a past, he'd pick multiple choice. As does this Joker in the film, who gives two contradicting backstories on how he got his scars. The first was about an abusive father, which was also a fake story used by the Joker to gain Harlene Quinzel's sympathy in Mad Love. It was revealed in that comic that Joker made up fake stories to gain sympathy from other officials.
The second backstory states that the Joker was previously married, which he also was in The Killing Joke.
Now, something that could have been an influence was Grant Morrison's take on Joker back in 2006 with Batman #663, The Clown At Midnight. It not only have Joker establish the cut smile, but it also has a line of dialogue very similar to what Joker says in the movie in which he looks at why they won't kill each other:
QuoteYou can't kill me without becoming like me. I can't kill you without losing the only human being who can keep up with me. Isn't it IRONIC?!
Okay, I'm sure I probably forgot a few things, but I thought I'd just start from there.
That was GREAT. Another great job BatmAngelus you should be proud. :)
I advocate another sticky ;D
Nice job. I hadn't thought of those references.
Don't forget the Killing Joke "corrupter" angle. :)
By "corrupter" do you mean this?:
QuoteAlso, like in Burton's Batman, this film was very influenced by The Killing Joke. The main premise of that comic is that Joker wants to prove that it only takes one bad day to turn the sanest man into a lunatic like him. He tortures James Gordon and tries to drive him insane, but he fails, whereas in The Dark Knight, his ideology succeeds in swaying Harvey Dent to the dark side. The Joker's dialogue at the end about Dent is very much in line with what the Joker says to Batman in the comic.
Near the end, Joker using a metal pipe/crowbar (can't remember) to beat a fallen Batman reminded me of 1988's "Death in the Family" when he delivered a brutal beating to Robin using some metal instrument. I read it years ago, but the raw brutality of these panels stayed with me. Maybe it's a coincidental similarity, of course.
Quote from: BatmAngelus on Wed, 23 Jul 2008, 16:29By "corrupter" do you mean this?:
Whoops. Guess I missed that part somehow. :( Oh well.
Great stuff Batmangelus!
And yes! The Crowbar DID remind me of A Death in the Family as well.
Thanks greggbray. And the crowbar scene was awesome- "Ah, you made it, I'm so thrilled!"
TDK had SO MANY really good comic infuences which is why its so good!
Why are people saying that TDK is more closer to the comics when this forum has proved Batman 89 is more closer?
I dont think 89 is closer at all, I think that TDK is way closer to the comics. That dosent mean that I dont like them both equally. 89 looks more like a comic book, where TDK has more TRUE elements of the characters in them, though modified still very true and pure.
TDK thrives off of the graphic novels, where as Burtons films ( or just Batman I should say) thrive off of the earlier comics before graphic novels were as prominent.
But, why are people saying that TDK is more closer to the comics when this forum has proved Batman 89 is more closer?
Quote from: Joker81 on Thu, 9 Oct 2008, 21:02
But, why are people saying that TDK is more closer to the comics when this forum has proved Batman 89 is more closer?
you act like this forum is comprised of every true and hardcore batman fan in the entire world, so they all must be right (YEAHHH RIGHT!!!). This forum didnt prove anything, everyone has their own opinions, theres not one true fact on the matter.
Here is how I see things--The Burton/Schumacher films were Batman of Earth-2(golden & silver age) and Nolan's films are Batman of Earth-1(bronze age+). That's how it should be summed up. It all depends on which one(s) floats your boat.
I thought I?d add a few possible comic book influences to the list. I?m afraid I don?t have any screen shots to accompany the comic art, but hopefully the film will be fresh enough in your memories that you?ll know the scenes I?m referring to.
The scene in The Dark Knight where the Joker dresses up his hostages as clowns is quite similar to a scene from No Man?s Land where the Joker tricks Petit into shooting his own men by dressing them in Joker-outfits (Batman #574, 2000).
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The scene where one of the Joker?s men gets an electric shock while trying to remove Batman?s mask seems to have its basis in Hush.
Batman is lying unconscious in an alleyway when a group of vagrants approach him. One of them tries to remove his cowl, triggering a self-defence mechanism that shoots gas in his face. A second one attempts to bludgeon Batman with a pipe, but a secondary defence device stuns him with an electric discharge (Batman #609, 2003).
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There's a scene in Night of the Reaper (Batman #237, 1971) where Robin stumbles across Batman?s corpse pinned to a tree. Upon closer inspection he realises it is not in fact Batman, but merely somebody who was dressed as him and who has fallen victim to the mysterious Reaper. The scene where Brian Douglas? body is left hanging in front of the City Hall in The Dark Knight reminded of this story.
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Another possible influence on this scene might have been Sign of the Joker! (Detective Comics #476, 1978), which features a rather disturbing image of a dead Batman with a grotesque Joker-grin on his face. But as with Night of the Reaper, its not the real Batman.
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Alternatively, this scene could be a reference to Dark Victory, a book that most definitely had an influence on Nolan?s films. The serial killer in this story is known as ?The Hangman?, so called because his modus operandi involves stringing up his victims by the neck and pinning clues to his identity on their corpses.
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While I?m on the subject of Dark Victory I thought I?d post this picture. It just struck me as quite similar to the scene from The Dark Knight where the Joker?s lorry crashes and he?s sent sprawling out onto the street clutching his machinegun.
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As BatmAngelus mentioned, there's the scene in The Dark Knight where Gordon, Dent and Batman meet on a rooftop beside the Bat-signal, similar to how they do in The Long Halloween.
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The scene where Gordon is apparently shot dead at Loeb?s funeral is quite similar to The Long Halloween?s subplot about Dent pretending to have been killed in a mob attack, only to return later on as part of a cunning strategy to outfox the enemy.
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Then there's the scene towards the end of the book where Gordon and Batman manage to lure out the villain by transferring a prisoner in their custody and using him as bait. I don?t want to give away any spoilers for people who haven?t read this book, especially regarding the identity of the killer. Suffice it to say that the scheme involves one of the good guys disguising himself as a member of the armed escort and then surprising the killer at the crucial moment.
I know some people have complained that the Dent in the comics was disfigured with acid, and not an explosion as depicted in the movie. But in Two-Face Strikes Again! (Batman #81, 1954) his face was surgically healed, only to be damaged again when he was caught in the blast of a bomb planted by some robbers.
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Interestingly, the Dent from Batman: The Animated Series was also burned in an explosion while chasing down a criminal.
Quote from: batass4880 on Fri, 10 Oct 2008, 03:02
Here is how I see things--The Burton/Schumacher films were Batman of Earth-2(golden & silver age) and Nolan's films are Batman of Earth-1(bronze age+). That's how it should be summed up. It all depends on which one(s) floats your boat.
you got some good thought there batass!
But, why are people saying that TDK is more closer to the comics when this forum has proved Batman 89 is more closer?
Quote from: Joker81 on Fri, 10 Oct 2008, 22:17
But, why are people saying that TDK is more closer to the comics when this forum has proved Batman 89 is more closer?
What are you that lazy? You can keep feeling safe in your copy and pasted question that you keep posting. The truth is, you just really dont know what your talking about and NEVER use facts or references to your statements, what are the rest of us supposed to read your mind? Thats someplace that sounds quite boring anyways!!
Quote from: Joker81 on Fri, 10 Oct 2008, 22:17
But, why are people saying that TDK is more closer to the comics when this forum has proved Batman 89 is more closer?
The Nolan films are closer in that they are sticking to the scripts of the comics and evolution of the characters.
I think that B89 as well as the other three original movies are closer to the look and basic mythology of the Batman characters. When they got the basic foundation of the characters, they did whatever they wanted with the scripts to make a movie they thought would work for audiences and not necessarily fans of the comic book. For example:
JOKER--They had him the murderer of Bruce's parents and gave him the profile of a gangster and not the Red Hood or a comedian. But, he was still the Joker in that he had a frozen smile, was stained white, had a sick and black sense of humor, would taunt Batman, broadcast his plans over the airwaves, was a prankster at times but was still an evil and cold-blooded killer that killed people with his Smilex chemical or just shot, stabbed or electrocuted his victims.
PENGUIN--They had him as a sideshow freak other than a privileged gentleman of crime, but he still was short, fat, nasty, had an arsenal of umbrellas, loved birds/penguins, came from a rich background and loved to eat raw fish! (I just wish that he wore his monocle through most of the film!) :'(
CATWOMAN--They had her not as a cold blooded cat burglar but as a renegade who was taking out her frustrations on the city. But, she still carried a whip, had sharp claws to draw blood and would fight/flirt with Batman.
Quote from: batass4880 on Sat, 11 Oct 2008, 04:07
Quote from: Joker81 on Fri, 10 Oct 2008, 22:17
But, why are people saying that TDK is more closer to the comics when this forum has proved Batman 89 is more closer?
The Nolan films are closer in that they are sticking to the scripts of the comics and evolution of the characters.
I think that B89 as well as the other three original movies are closer to the look and basic mythology of the Batman characters. When they got the basic foundation of the characters, they did whatever they wanted with the scripts to make a movie they thought would work for audiences and not necessarily fans of the comic book. For example:
JOKER--They had him the murderer of Bruce's parents and gave him the profile of a gangster and not the Red Hood or a comedian. But, he was still the Joker in that he had a frozen smile, was stained white, had a sick and black sense of humor, would taunt Batman, broadcast his plans over the airwaves, was a prankster at times but was still an evil and cold-blooded killer that killed people with his Smilex chemical or just shot, stabbed or electrocuted his victims.
PENGUIN--They had him as a sideshow freak other than a privileged gentleman of crime, but he still was short, fat, nasty, had an arsenal of umbrellas, loved birds/penguins, came from a rich background and loved to eat raw fish! (I just wish that he wore his monocle through most of the film!) :'(
CATWOMAN--They had her not as a cold blooded cat burglar but as a renegade who was taking out her frustrations on the city. But, she still carried a whip, had sharp claws to draw blood and would fight/flirt with Batman.
Well to be honest this is the problem I have, and I just want to make clear I am a fan of Batman and The Drak Knight.
People have bashed the Joker (recently) in Batman 89. But the way I see it is the Joker is more true to the comics in Batman than The Dark Knight.
BATMAN: He wasnt the red hood or a comedian, because that whole idea was ridiculas. He had a back story, known as Jack napier - a ruthless gangster. Jack gets betrayed by his closed allies, gets dropped into a vat of chemicals, just like the comics, by batman. He emerges as the Joker, insane, and wrecks havoc on the ones he feels responsable for his accident (Grissom, Alicia, other gang members, Batman and Gotham in general).
The Joker in Batman to me feels like the Joker from the comics, he looks like him dresses like him, acts like him. Even Alex Ross said that the origin of the Joker in Batman was much more believable than the comics and The Killing Joke.
THE DARK KNIGHT: Someone posted before that the Joker in TDK had little depth. I tend to agree with them. In TDK we dont get an origin story, infact we know almost nothing about the Joker. He is just there. Now this is obviously the point for this movie. He is scared with a chelsea smile and wears white make-up. To me though, the whole Joker origin story has been re-wrote here, altering the mythos. Its not close to the comics at all.
My point being is it seems ok to nit-pick Batman's 1989 movie, but when it comes to TDK it seems everyone turns a blind eye to its flaws, and its unfaithfullness to the comics regarding character development, motivation and plot. Another character's origin story that TDK fiddle with is Two-Face.
TWO-FACE IN THE EARLY COMICS: In the comics was scared by Moroni in court with acid while hes trying to convict him. The two faced coin was Moroni's and Harvey Dent was using it as evidents against Moroni. He does't die i the comics either. Bruce Wayne is a friend of Harvey's they grew up together. Rachel is also not his love interest.
TWO-FACE IN TDK: Harvey Dent is scared by the Joker, in an over elaborite plot to kill Rachel, hence drving Batman insane. He is not scared by acid, but burned by fuel. The two faced coin was his fathers given to him. He becomes unresentful and brief friends with Bruce Wayne, when he meets him throught his girlfriend Rachel.
These are the problems I have when I go on this site and read people bashing Batman 89's so called inaccrucies. TDK is plentyful of them.
I think its about time that we as Batman fans stop all the cr4p, and just enjoy the movies Burton and Nolan has gave us. They are not perfect films, but enjoyable and well acted flicks. And its great we have two different versions to watch. What people have to remember is movies are different than comics, and things have to be changed to sell and tell stories on the silver screen.
Look at some of the biggest blockbusting films based on novels. A lot of these movies are totally different than the novels. This is because of the movie making process.
Batman films are for everyone to enjoy, not just Batman fans.
Im a true batman fan, I dont really give a crap what a non-fan says about the films or their opinions on them. Thats always been my opinion, but I understand YES a film is for EVERYONE to enjoy, but when people come up to me trying to tell me things about the characters and film, I just laugh at them, and say "You have no clue what your talking about" because they damn well dont.
And your point is????
My point is that the $500m dollors TDK made was not through just Batman fans going to watch it.
So in the end it doesnt matter what fans think either. Filmmaking is a business and people vote with their feet and the millions that flocked to see this movie, and Batman in 1989. They dont care about inaccurisies of the movies compared to the comics. They go to the cinema to be entertained and for escapism for 2 hours.
Thats what TDK gave them and that is what Batman gave them 19 years ago.
Quote from: Joker81 on Sun, 12 Oct 2008, 19:27
And your point is????
My point is that the $500m dollors TDK made was not through just Batman fans going to watch it.
So in the end it doesnt matter what fans think either. Filmmaking is a business and people vote with their feet and the millions that flocked to see this movie, and Batman in 1989. They dont care about inaccurisies of the movies compared to the comics. They go to the cinema to be entertained and for escapism for 2 hours.
Thats what TDK gave them and that is what Batman gave them 19 years ago.
My point is that regular non bat-fans opinions on ANYTHING Batman related, DOES NOT MATTER TO ME!! Thats about it, I know film, I know film industry and I get what your saying, Batman is just something very close to my heart, so im very touchy about all of it!
And Silver Nemesis, up above, strikes again with another great post.
The dead Batman thing also carried into John Byrne's comic story The Many Deaths of Batman.
The entire first chapter had no dialogue as we saw the discovery of Batman's corpse, people's attempt to save him, the villains' reactions to the news of his death (sadly none from Joker, but a fun scene does have Two-Face flipping a coin to decide how to feel), and then Gordon going up to the corpse and unmasking it...revealing to us that it is not Bruce Wayne.
The chapter then ended with yet another dead Batman on the top of a building, which blows up.
Steve Englehart on The Dark Knight:
http://www.steveenglehart.com/Film/Dark%20Knight%20movie.html
For those who have not read the comic he is referring to:
Dark Detective was a return to comics from Steve Englehart and Marshall Rogers in 2005. Englehart later dubbed it Dark Detective II and his original arc with Rogers (previously collected in the book Strange Apparitions) became Dark Detective I.
In the 2005 storyline, Silver St. Cloud returns to Bruce's life. She was his former girlfriend who found out about his alter ego and because of Batman, she broke it off with Bruce. In the story arc, she dates politician Evan Gregory, who is running for Governor. Joker crashes the campaign party, however, and tries to "compete" in the election against Gregory.
There is pretty much a love triangle story among the three- Bruce, Silver, and Evan.
Eventually, Joker captures Silver. Evan turns to Bruce and essentially, Batman and Evan go after the Joker to find her in Joker's booby-trapped headquarters. Batman saves her. Evan, however, literally loses his right arm and leg due to the Joker's booby traps.
And apparently more was planned for the character and storyline...
I knew about the B89 similarities. Everybody does. But really, they come from what was originally intended to be an adaptation of his work. From the way Englehart phrases it, you'd think his DD2 ideas were outright stolen by TDK's production staff. Dunno what to think of that...
Yeah, same here.
On one hand, I think he's exaggerating a bit to say that his Dark Detective story was "the basis" for The Dark Knight and there are parts where I think he is giving himself too much credit for his Batman work.
On the other hand, I do think the Harvey Dent story in The Dark Knight is closer to the Evan Gregory story than the comic book versions of the Two-Face origin (not that that's a terrible thing. After all, it worked for the movie). Plus the Aaron Eckhart resemblance is a bit eerie.
If anything, though, it's another possible comic influence to add to this list.
Another comic connection that I thought of while at work tonight was the warehouse full of stacked money. In the Long Halloween, Batman and Harvey track down the mobs money and burn it to the ground. In the movie, Joker tracks down the mob's money and burns it down. "I'm only burning my half..."
Quote from: gordonblu on Wed, 18 Feb 2009, 05:07
Another comic connection that I thought of while at work tonight was the warehouse full of stacked money. In the Long Halloween, Batman and Harvey track down the mobs money and burn it to the ground. In the movie, Joker tracks down the mob's money and burns it down. "I'm only burning my half..."
Why did the mob pay the Joker? I thought he was to be paid only if he killed Batman. Obviously that didn't happen.
With all love and respect to TDK, that's another of the plotholes. It's one of those things that look cool onscreen but makes absolutely no sense upon critical review.
I'm new. Hi.
To me they, as the whole series in one, come off as equal overal. Listin why.
In Burton's, though they had Joker do to with his past more, they also did this rediculously to Ra's Al Ghul. This is important as most have made their mind up on hating it on this alone. Thinking on a series stand point this equalizes it I suppose. I think that he's now too big a main villain with a master vs student darth theme, that this equalizes this. It's annoying in that he replaces an important character. Your like, "this is exelent...wait...that's Ra's Al Ghul? Why trick me with this!?!". Yaknow...
Secondly, it's improvment. You may recall that if they had done it equally to the original, they could later deside that Joker could come back! Though they focuss on realism too, like keeping the chemical from making the smile and only doing the burning of pigments and dying of hair color, it was still more to the original's standpoint of realism. To me, I liked Burton's in terms of accuracy, as it realy focussed more on the original realm as like. Croc or ClayFace could appear, then it would feel more like Spider-Man film's universe in realism. So, a return of Joker story could commence on Burton's side. Those patitioners are wrong, as now this won't even happen!!! That's what they get for not trying to like both's flaws and go overboard with this Kevin Smith ordeal. Not like you need experience, just care and research at the time.
If Joker had been reinvented after a death experience, he could become alittle more grusome. I think that even Nolan's Joker was still more wild then the original jokers, they are lightly more a silent Jigsaw and/or serial killer theme with doses of outbursts. He only appeared on TVs and then went out little, whereas that Joker in Nolan's only did this to get BatMan to take off his mask. This means that both have an annoyance factor compared to the original. You know that with Jack, Heath's will also get old. With Jack it was the gags, with Heath it'll be that he talks too much. This isn't to be confused with what many comics did, where people talk things they should only have felt or thought. This is because they were narrating and explaining to readers, and that's all it is really.
EDIT: Also, people complained more on the behalf of dark knight returns or killing joke. However, he only said that he used them. Because they were focussed on putting 27-37 to film, they did not use any actual story line elements from it, only bits and peices or atmosphere. He also used some other elements from some of the latter 70's-80's comics as well.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 18 Feb 2009, 06:48
With all love and respect to TDK, that's another of the plotholes. It's one of those things that look cool onscreen but makes absolutely no sense upon critical review.
I'm taking this one back. Is it really a plothole? I don't think so anymore. It was implied that the Joker forced Lau to reveal where he stashed the money (a rare wise move in a narrative sense by Nolan; it didn't need to be shown). I forgot that Lau sat atop the mountain of cash before the Joker lit it up. The Joker never actually satisfied his contract but what does that matter when he forced Lau to squeal?
So yeah. I take it back.
Yep. That's right colors.
i dont like batman begins, i actually prefer batman and robin, all i think of when i watch batman begins is brown.
Thanks for that....but this thread is regarding TDK comic book influences.
Quote from: bttfspencer on Fri, 19 Jun 2009, 11:05
i dont like batman begins, i actually prefer batman and robin, all i think of when i watch batman begins is brown.
WOW! Someone definitly didnt eat their wheaties today!
Quote from: bttfspencer on Fri, 19 Jun 2009, 11:05
i dont like batman begins, i actually prefer batman and robin, all i think of when i watch batman begins is brown.
Im not BB biggest fan either but all batman films have something worth watching imo (yes even B&R).
Quote from: damiean dark on Sat, 20 Jun 2009, 00:31
Quote from: bttfspencer on Fri, 19 Jun 2009, 11:05
i dont like batman begins, i actually prefer batman and robin, all i think of when i watch batman begins is brown.
Im not BB biggest fan either but all batman films have something worth watching imo (yes even B&R).
Seconded.
Not a comic book influence, but a pretty cool tribute I found on TDK's IMDb page:
QuoteAfter the tumbler becomes disabled and prior to its self destruction there is a warning sound during the tumbler's "system diagnosis". This warning alarm sound is the same sound used for an incoming call to the red Bat-phone in the "Batman" (1966) TV series.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sun, 4 Oct 2009, 14:52
Not a comic book influence, but a pretty cool tribute I found on TDK's IMDb page:
QuoteAfter the tumbler becomes disabled and prior to its self destruction there is a warning sound during the tumbler's "system diagnosis". This warning alarm sound is the same sound used for an incoming call to the red Bat-phone in the "Batman" (1966) TV series.
Hmm... I don't remember that. I'll have to see it again. I'm sure I would have caught that the first time.
I'm not a 60s Batman expert, but upon re-watching that moment, I think the red batphone sound claim may be correct.
Knew this one already, but it's another 60s show reference:
The Joker's mask during the initial bank robbery is almost exactly the same as the mask worn by Cesar Romero when hijacking a performance of Pagliacci in the TV series episode "Batman: The Joker Is Wild (#1.5)" (1966).
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Mon, 5 Oct 2009, 05:03
Knew this one already, but it's another 60s show reference:
The Joker's mask during the initial bank robbery is almost exactly the same as the mask worn by Cesar Romero when hijacking a performance of Pagliacci in the TV series episode "Batman: The Joker Is Wild (#1.5)" (1966).
Interesting! Can we get a pic of this?
It's awfully close:
http://www.sideshowcollectors.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1194394&postcount=1485
vs.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Z4-I2c8peEQ/SXdFEyIebnI/AAAAAAAA2nk/U-RxqAxLDD4/s400/jkr2.jpg
As for the Bat Phone sound, I'm not sure about that.
Bat Phone sound at 2:03-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70NTbLC4Xvs
Tumbler beeps at around 1:23:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_SN7IfyGBA
It is pretty damn close - has to be an influence.
(btw, for me - the joker is wild is a great joker episode)
This tread is one of the reasons I love this site. Has there been a feature posted of this, or just this forum tread?
There will be
Need to get thus up as a feature but I just wanted to add my 2 cents before we do.
I was flicking through some Batman Adventures comics today and saw the first issue had something that was striking...
It came out in 2003, based on the New Batman Adventures cartoon.
The first page of issue 1...
Found this tumblr link and thought I'd post it here to point out that even though The Dark Knight lifts the "He does that" moment with Harvey and Gordon from The Long Halloween, the Batman-Gordon-Dent rooftop meeting is not something unique to that comic.
I see it cited to TLH all the time and sure, it's likely where the Nolans and Goyer picked it up. But a lot of TLH recycled a previous comic called Eye of the Beholder by Andrew Helfer, which reimagined Dent's origin and was the one that revealed that he had an abusive father with a two-headed coin.
This comic, from 1990, seems to be the first time Dent, Gordon, and Batman met by the Bat-Signal.
The moment would be recreated in the Batman newspaper strips around the same time and then in the 90s comics two more times before The Long Halloween.
http://about-faces.tumblr.com/post/36978608762/evolution-of-the-rooftop-meeting-from-1990-to
Footage of Heath Ledger's Joker diary reveals that he pasted in some comic book panels into his character journal. The only visible one is from Englehart and Rogers's The Laughing Fish at 0:20.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJMoKMieNn8
Now a site feature!
http://www.batman-online.com/features/2018/7/7/comic-influences-on-the-dark-knight-2008
(https://www.batman-online.com/feature_thumbs/comic_influence_the_dark_knight_2008.jpg)
Another shout out to Silver Nemesis for these features. It takes a lot of time and effort, but it's done out of love.
(https://i.imgur.com/p0hK44b.jpg)
The bit where Batman swoops down on Crane's getaway car reminded me of LOTDK #50/Images, pages #28-#29. One of the camera angles even looks one of the panels.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 12 Jul 2018, 04:03
Another shout out to Silver Nemesis for these features. It takes a lot of time and effort, but it's done out of love.
(https://i.imgur.com/p0hK44b.jpg)
Cheers, TDK! And thanks to you and everyone else who posted references in this thread. The site feature is merely the end product of the team effort that originated on these message boards ten years ago. All of you deserve to share credit. We've now posted site features analysing the comic influences on every theatrically released live action Batman film, up to and including Batman v Superman.
Batman (1943)
http://www.batman-online.com/features/2018/1/26/batman-1943-and-the-comics
Batman and Robin (1949)
http://www.batman-online.com/features/2018/2/28/batman-and-robin-1949-and-the-comics
Batman: The Movie (1966)
http://www.batman-online.com/features/2012/10/10/comic-influences-on-batman-the-movie-1966
Batman (1989)
http://www.batman-online.com/features/2008/7/19/comic-influences-on-tim-burtons-batman-1989
Batman Returns (1992)
http://www.batman-online.com/features/2009/1/2/possible-influences-of-comics-on-tim-burtons-batman-returns
Batman Forever (1995)
http://www.batman-online.com/features/2012/10/1/comic-influences-on-batman-forever-1995
Batman & Robin (1997)
http://www.batman-online.com/features/2011/4/3/comic-influences-on-schumacher-batman-robin-1997
Batman Begins (2005)
http://www.batman-online.com/features/2016/3/6/comic-influences-on-batman-begins-2005
The Dark Knight (2008)
http://www.batman-online.com/features/2018/7/7/comic-influences-on-the-dark-knight-2008
The Dark Knight Rises (2012)
http://www.batman-online.com/features/2012/7/29/comic-influences-on-the-dark-knight-rises
Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016)
http://www.batman-online.com/features/2016/4/9/comic-influences-on-batman-v-superman-dawn-of-justice-2016
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 12 Jul 2018, 20:42
The bit where Batman swoops down on Crane's getaway car reminded me of LOTDK #50/Images, pages #28-#29. One of the camera angles even looks one of the panels.
(https://s8.postimg.cc/9hp6beelx/lotdk50.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/vuPoLPb.gif)
Excellent observation, colors!
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fentertainment.ie%2Fimages_content%2Ftp%2520thumbs%2520up%25202.gif&hash=09578bdc76dede5a640d148288b05b3cf0630ec0)
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 12 Jul 2018, 20:42
The bit where Batman swoops down on Crane's getaway car reminded me of LOTDK #50/Images, pages #28-#29. One of the camera angles even looks one of the panels.
Funny how that's enough to instantly stop the car and halt Crane from driving off. I guess we're meant to believe the impact knocked him out. Also, notice the direction Batman descends from and the direction in which he lands. It's a goof I've never been able to ignore...and it's in such a prominent sequence.
This is an old article, but back in 2013, David Goyer once revealed he gave Nolan a lot of help in writing his take on Batman and developing Man of Steel, as the director had no knowledge about the comics.
Quote
Heading to London to participate in the the BAFTA And BFI Screenwriters' Lecture, screenwriter David S. Goyer said that, "Chris had never read comic books. He didn't know the world. So he trusted me on that franchise and with Superman to know what was canon: what could be changed and what couldn't be changed."
"I identified the ten things that remained sticky about Batman and Superman," Goyer added. "Wrote them up and said to Chris 'These are the 10 things that should be in the movie. Like the Ten Commandments. As long as we honour that, we'll be good.' " But the pair took their dedication to staying true to the character one step further, by meeting the very people who make their living thinking up new adventures for Bruce Wayne—the comic book writers behind the cape and cowl.
"We said, 'What do you think should be in a Batman film, and are there any rules that you absolutely would not break?' It sounds simple, but none of the other writers had bothered to do that," Goyer explained. "They dismissed the comic books and their creators. We earned their trust."
But even then, right down to the details, Nolan had questions. "Early in 'Batman Begins' he said 'does he have to have a utility belt?', and I said 'yes'. And he said 'why?' And then he showed me a design and it was all black. And I said 'it has to be yellow', and he said 'oh...,' " Goyer reveals.
Source: https://www.indiewire.com/2013/09/david-s-goyer-says-he-had-to-tell-christopher-nolan-what-the-batman-canon-was-for-the-dark-knight-trilogy-93286/
So it turns out Nolan relied on Goyer a lot on ideas taken from comics. And to think people criticise Tim Burton's lack of knowledge. At least one can say Burton had read The Killing Joke and used that story to come up with his own ideas for B89. To also think people dismiss Goyer's involvement in the series and thought Nolan "understood" Batman all along.
With that said, Goyer has some nerve to dismiss the contributions of writers of the previous live action films. Not only does the damn trilogy recreate a lot of scenes and ideas from Burton's work and even Batman Forever, it's quite rich of him to claim he and Nolan came up rules you can't break for a Batman movie, because the character constantly breaks his moral code throughout all three films and wasn't even consistent in his approach at all. And if the comics creators they allegedly met were aware of this, then shame on them. Apparently, words speak louder than actions to these people.
It's ironic to me he'd insinuate somebody like Sam Hamm dismissed the comics and their creators, when Hamm co-created Henri Ducard as a comic character in the late 80s, who would later be amalgamated into Ra's al Ghul in the first Nolan film. Last time I time I checked, Ducard and Ra's weren't the same man, and Ra's didn't have anything to do with Bruce's destiny to become Batman. To me, that's not much different than making the Joker playing a part in Bruce's destiny to become Batman in B89.
What annoys me is despite arrogantly selling the past short, I wouldn't have cared what Goyer would have to say if I liked the movie. You can try make parallels to scenes or ideas from certain comics, but if the film is itself has a plot and characters so poorly written then it's not going to matter to me.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 18 Aug 2018, 03:08So it turns out Nolan relied on Goyer a lot on ideas taken from comics. And to think people criticise Tim Burton's lack of knowledge. At least one can say Burton had read The Killing Joke and used that story to come up with his own ideas for B89. To also think people dismiss Goyer's involvement in the series and thought Nolan "understood" Batman all along.
With that said, Goyer has some nerve to dismiss the contributions of writers of the previous live action films. Not only does the damn trilogy recreate a lot of scenes and ideas from Burton's work and even Batman Forever, it's quite rich of him to claim he and Nolan came up rules you can't break for a Batman movie, because the character constantly breaks his moral code throughout all three films and wasn't even consistent in his approach at all. And if the comics creators they allegedly met were aware of this, then shame on them. Apparently, words speak louder than actions to these people.
It's ironic to me he'd insinuate somebody like Sam Hamm dismissed the comics and their creators, when Hamm co-created Henri Ducard as a comic character in the late 80s, who would later be amalgamated into Ra's al Ghul in the first Nolan film. Last time I time I checked, Ducard and Ra's weren't the same man, and Ra's didn't have anything to do with Bruce's destiny to become Batman. To me, that's not much different than making the Joker playing a part in Bruce's destiny to become Batman in B89.
What annoys me is despite arrogantly selling the past short, I wouldn't have cared what Goyer would have to say if I liked the movie. You can try make parallels to scenes or ideas from certain comics, but if the film is itself has a plot and characters so poorly written then it's not going to matter to me.
I think someone can understand a character in writing them and not have a lot of prior knowledge, but after getting the knowledge gets the character.
Honestly I think having Ra's be Batman's trainer adds interesting context to their relationship and Ra's desire for him to be his heir.
Had BTAS on the brain lately. Always loved the Two-Face two-parter. And now I wonder if the idea of Harvey becoming Two-Face and going on the warpath against Thorne was some kind of influence in TDK's depiction of Harvey becoming Two-Face and going on the warpath against Maroni (and others).
I'm starting to wonder about the sticky bomb gun Batman uses to capture Lao.
(https://i.imgur.com/W3uCUdZ.jpg)
Apologies for the quality of that screenshot but it was the best I could find after a quick image search on Google.
Honestly, it's the Two-Face connection that gives me pause. Clearly, the gun Batman uses in TDKR serves an entirely different purpose when he was after Two-Face.
(https://i.imgur.com/yxNcJMl.jpg)
And yet, in both instances, we have Batman perched atop a skyscraper holding a gun. I mean, that's a pretty specific type of image. And being as TDK and TDKR both feature Two-Face, I'm just saying this is worth considering.
Also, I'm a little curious about the news shows that TDK occasionally cuts to. TDK uses the news shows to sort of provide a barometer on public support for Batman. TDKR does essentially the same thing.
This thread has a bunch of pages so forgive me if this has been posted already.
This honestly only just occurred to me. But I think the character of Detective Stephens (played by Keith Szarabajka) has a fair few similarities to Harvey Bullock.
They're both Gotham police detectives, both have sort of slobby wardrobes and both are a bit headstrong and outspoken.
(https://i.imgur.com/XuSw6xc.jpg)
Crucially, both seem like good cops who are willing to poke a toe over the line every now and then to get the job done. I could see Bullock beating up a suspect if the suspect mouthed off the wrong way... just like Stephens does (or tries to do).
As to why the character is called "Stephens" rather than "Bullock", I can speculate on that but I don't have any solid evidence.
I can see the similarities. On this topic, it never made sense for him to be in the room with Joker other than for the script to allow the escape. Standing outside in front of the door would've served Stephens' same purpose.