The Wrap has posted some extra details about Affleck's involvement in The Flash courtesy of an insider source: https://www.thewrap.com/ben-affleck-to-return-as-bruce-wayne-in-ezra-millers-the-flash-movie/
They're saying that Ben was approached about the project a few months ago, but only signed on last week after receiving a new draft of the script that implemented some suggestions he'd made. The Wrap is also stating that Affleck will suit up and that this will be his final appearance as Batman and won't lead to a movie or miniseries on HBO Max. I think most fans already assumed the HBO Max rumours were unlikely to be true, so there's nothing terribly surprising here.
From Mark Hughes:
Quote
I know some other sites are saying they hear this news of Affleck's return in The Flash does not signal any current plans for an HBO Max series, and that could be true. But I hear other things suggesting HBO Max has been brought up, and let's just be frank here — we are getting this news today after weeks of denials of any project being in the works at all, especially with Affleck involved.
Having already doubted the rumors of this once, and after hearing strong official denials, I'm not inclined to dismiss the other rumors so fast anymore. If anything, today's announcement should make us all slower to discount the rumors. Remember, the denial is about anything being in the works or planned right now — that's a common dodge for something that could be discussed and might just not be in any official stage yet. Plus, we all know the track record of denials about all of this stuff lately.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/markhughes/2020/08/20/ben-afflecks-batman-returns-in-the-flash/#359715cc2bf4
I wouldn't put much stock in the bloggers who are skeptical about Affleck's status. After all, most of these people denied the Snyder cut's existence for years, and look what happened. Hell, most of these pricks also said Affleck hated playing the role, which is completely false.
I'm not saying I'm confident Affleck will continue from this point on. All I'm saying is
anything can happen. I'll wait and see what happens, but right now, I'm simply soaking in the realisation that Affleck AND Keaton are returning to play their Batman roles in the
SAME MOVIE. That alone is a cause for celebration. Anything more than that will be a bonus.
Andres Muschietti has made some very encouraging comments about how he wants incorporate to Batfleck in The Flash.
Quote
His Batman has a dichotomy that is very strong, which is his masculinity—because of the way he looks, and the imposing figure that he has, and his jawline —but he's also very vulnerable. He knows how to deliver from the inside out, that vulnerability. He just needs a story that allows him to bring that contrast, that balance.
He's a very substantial part of the emotional impact of the movie. The interaction and relationship between Barry and Affleck's Wayne will bring an emotional level that we haven't seen before. It's Barry's movie, it's Barry's story, but their characters are more related than we think. They both lost their mothers to murder, and that's one of the emotional vessels of the movie. That's where the Affleck Batman kicks in.
https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2020/08/ben-affleck-returns-batman-the-flash-multiverse-keaton
By the sounds of it, the film could be bringing to life that memorable letter scene. For that to work, it would sense to bring back Jeffrey Dean Morgan to play Thomas Wayne/Batman. If not, they'll have to think of something different to convey that emotion.
Muschietti's sister, Barbara, describes how they approached Affleck.
Quote
There have been some all sorts of stories and things he said himself about having a very hard time playing Batman, and it had been difficult for him. I think it was more about a difficult time in his life. When we approached him, he's now in a very different time in his life. He was very open to it, which was a bit of a surprise to us. It was a question mark.
We are all human and go through great times in our lives and terrible times in our lives. Right now he's in a place where he can actually enjoy being Batman. It's a pivotal role, but at the same time it's a fun part.
Regardless whether Affleck continues in some capacity or not, The Flash has become my second anticipated film, after ZSJL.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Fri, 21 Aug 2020, 14:35
The Wrap is also stating that Affleck will suit up and that this will be his final appearance as Batman and won't lead to a movie or miniseries on HBO Max. I think most fans already assumed the HBO Max rumours were unlikely to be true, so there's nothing terribly surprising here.
ZSJL was being viewed as the final form of closure to a man who had already departed the role. In a matter of months, Flashpoint is now being viewed as that closure. That's how things change. DCEU Batman will be Keaton. Which makes me inclined to believe if it ever happens, future Affleck content will be self contained, much like his Deathstroke script, without any appearance from League members.
Batfleck wouldn't die, but I wouldn't be surprised if the film ends with his universe effectively sealed off forever. Which would be emotional for Ezra's Flash, as that's
his Bruce, and of course the audience. It would be cinematic gold, especially if we get a scene shortly before that of Batfleck receiving a letter from his father. If you want an ending of sorts, that's what you do.
I'm also hoping this means Jeremy Irons is back for an appearance, as he has been absolutely fantastic.
So I'm thinking that Keaton gives Barry his new suit. During DC Fandome, they showed a sketch of a scene, and said Batman gives Barry a new suit, and it was Kaeton's Batman.
Pretty cool.
Here's the sketch:
(https://i.redd.it/b9lfi769oli51.jpg)
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 22 Aug 2020, 18:58
Here's the sketch:
(https://i.redd.it/b9lfi769oli51.jpg)
The background resembles the facility where Batman, Flash and Cyborg found Superman in the Flashpoint comic. Or is it Axis Chemicals? Either way, it certainly looks like the Burtonverse. :) And is that the Batmobile in the background or just an ordinary car?
Here's Barry's new organic suit, which is a big improvement over his old one IMO.
(https://i.ibb.co/KWbN1DP/37293812.jpg)
During the panel they said that he gets this from Bruce. I'm assuming they meant Keaton rather than Affleck. The Burton Batman must make this for him after Barry arrives in the Burtonverse.
I'm so stoked for this movie. I was excited just to see Flash on the big screen, but now that Keaton and Affleck are in it, I'm beyond excited.
This is so cool. I love it!
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sat, 22 Aug 2020, 19:12
The background resembles the facility where Batman, Flash and Cyborg found Superman in the Flashpoint comic. Or is it Axis Chemicals? Either way, it certainly looks like the Burtonverse. :) And is that the Batmobile in the background or just an ordinary car?
Hard to answer conclusively on either question. I think the Burtonverse car will definitely feature, though.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sat, 22 Aug 2020, 19:12
During the panel they said that he gets this from Bruce. I'm assuming they meant Keaton rather than Affleck. The Burton Batman must make this for him after Barry arrives in the Burtonverse.
This is perfect for Keaton's Batman, as he repairs his own equipment and also makes his own equipment. I have faith they're going to honor his incarnation, enriching his legacy. His role really does seem like it'll be a lot more than a cameo.
Quote from: Travesty on Sat, 22 Aug 2020, 19:19
I'm so stoked for this movie. I was excited just to see Flash on the big screen, but now that Keaton and Affleck are in it, I'm beyond excited.
This is so cool. I love it!
I feel the same way.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 22 Aug 2020, 19:27
This is perfect for Keaton's Batman, as he repairs his own equipment and also makes his own equipment.
Perhaps the more organic design of the new Flash costume is to some extent intended to reflect the organic/anatomical look of the 1989 batsuit.
I was hoping for a pre-recorded message from Michael, but the more I think about it, the concept art gives us a lot to chew on. It reveals quite a lot about this Batman, in terms of past and present. I'm envisioning a suit creation type sequence, or at least the discussion about it, inside a recreated B89 batcave. Insane to believe this is happening.
It is cool to see that they are planning on putting Michael back in the Batsuit. I just hope the film addresses Bruce's age. It would seem a little odd that Bruce has been fighting as Batman nonstop into his 60's/70's.
Quote from: BatmanFurst on Sat, 22 Aug 2020, 20:46
It is cool to see that they are planning on putting Michael back in the Batsuit. I just hope the film addresses Bruce's age. It would seem a little odd that Bruce has been fighting as Batman nonstop into his 60's/70's.
I kinda think that PERHAPS Keaton's Batman incorporates the use of drones (Kingdom Come like), and suits up as Batman on sporadic occasions, or when it's necessary.
I like the idea that Bruce would continue on as Batman until he literally is physical incapable to do so anymore. That speaks volumes of his personal drive and devotion to his mission. Definitely a contrast to Christian Bale's Batman, who, apparently, was willing to walk away from Batman fairly early on in his career during the events of 2008's The Dark Knight.
I hope that concept art of Miller's Flash and Keaton's Batman translates on screen as accurately as possible. It looks very promising.
I'd like to know if Keaton's stunt double, Dave Lea, will be coming back or if somebody else will take over.
Yeah, I hope it translates as close as possible.
Plus, technology as advanced, so not only are materials going to be better, but they can also CGI parts of the suit, so it's not so bad on Keaton. Hell, maybe they'll de-age him, and it'll be Batman in his prime?
A stab in the dark: Ezra meets Keaton first and by accident. Keaton builds the new suit to help him return home, and he does so to meet up with Affleck. But time gets messed up and the film ends with Keaton.
Quote from: Travesty on Sun, 23 Aug 2020, 02:20
Yeah, I hope it translates as close as possible.
Plus, technology as advanced, so not only are materials going to be better, but they can also CGI parts of the suit, so it's not so bad on Keaton. Hell, maybe they'll de-age him, and it'll be Batman in his prime?
I wouldn't want them to de-age him too much. I enjoy the idea of Keaton's Batman remaining active years after we last saw him in BR.
Quote from: The Joker on Sun, 23 Aug 2020, 00:46
Quote from: BatmanFurst on Sat, 22 Aug 2020, 20:46
It is cool to see that they are planning on putting Michael back in the Batsuit. I just hope the film addresses Bruce's age. It would seem a little odd that Bruce has been fighting as Batman nonstop into his 60's/70's.
I kinda think that PERHAPS Keaton's Batman incorporates the use of drones (Kingdom Come like), and suits up as Batman on sporadic occasions, or when it's necessary.
I like the idea that Bruce would continue on as Batman until he literally is physical incapable to do so anymore. That speaks volumes of his personal drive and devotion to his mission.
Great idea. If that were to be the case, maybe all the events taking place in The Flash could serve as a prequel of sorts for Batman Beyond.
Foreshadowing in the earlier works of Batman directors.
Batman comics are discussed by Sam and the Frog brothers in Joel Schumacher's The Lost Boys (1987).
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/58/a4/86/58a486543a8f08b1881da70beab348f5.jpg)
The bat emblem appears on a door in Christopher Nolan's The Following (1998). This scene was shot in the flat of lead actor Jeremy Theobald, who has explained that he put the bat symbol up when the 1989 film came out.
(https://i0.wp.com/www.filmdetail.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Batman-logo-in-Following1.jpg?fit=560%2C420)
The cover of Batman Vol 1 #1 (March 1940) can be seen during the title sequence of Zack Snyder's Watchmen (2009).
(https://i.stack.imgur.com/HiUYK.jpg)
Batman (1989) is the movie being shown at the cinema in Andy Muschietti's It (2017).
(https://i.redd.it/gl51obx1qda01.jpg)
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun, 23 Aug 2020, 22:04
Foreshadowing in the earlier works of Batman directors.
Batman comics are discussed by Sam and the Frog brothers in Joel Schumacher's The Lost Boys (1987).
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/58/a4/86/58a486543a8f08b1881da70beab348f5.jpg)
The bat emblem appears on a door in Christopher Nolan's The Following (1998). This scene was shot in the flat of lead actor Jeremy Theobald, who has explained that he put the bat symbol up when the 1989 film came out.
(https://i0.wp.com/www.filmdetail.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Batman-logo-in-Following1.jpg?fit=560%2C420)
The cover of Batman Vol 1 #1 (March 1940) can be seen during the title sequence of Zack Snyder's Watchmen (2009).
(https://i.stack.imgur.com/HiUYK.jpg)
Batman (1989) is the movie being shown at the cinema in Andy Muschietti's It (2017).
(https://i.redd.it/gl51obx1qda01.jpg)
With Burton there isn't a direct reference, but there is a point in Beetlejuice where he has Batwings on his head.
Not sure on the validity but
https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/val-kilmer-reportedly-returning-batman-flash/
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Mon, 24 Aug 2020, 00:55
Not sure on the validity but
https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/val-kilmer-reportedly-returning-batman-flash/
Hmm. I'm not going to rule anything out anymore but I can't see how Kilmer would credibly appear as Batman in his current condition for
an extended period of time. I saw a preview clip for a new movie he appeared in, and his voice was totally dubbed and obviously so. It stuck out like a sore thumb. A Kilmer appearance could be very minimal, perhaps briefly being seen wearing the suit as Barry races through various universes.
I could see them using some dialogue (perhaps deleted to overdub him if he were to say anything) from Forever
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Mon, 24 Aug 2020, 00:55
Not sure on the validity but
https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/val-kilmer-reportedly-returning-batman-flash/
I would take anything that comes from that clickbait website with a grain of salt. But if Kilmer were to appear, it would have to be a non-costumed cameo, at the very most.
Not sure if Affleck and Keaton will ever interact in The Flash, but it would be a cool little bit of fan service if they did. The Flash won't be an adaptation of Flashpoint, so anything can happen.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fc/15/19/fc15199abbcf61e33ad099e86bda1c1a.jpg)
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Mon, 24 Aug 2020, 03:46
I could see them using some dialogue (perhaps deleted to overdub him if he were to say anything) from Forever
I'm not going to complain if more Batman actors feature, but I do like the idea it's only Keaton and Affleck given they're both experienced warriors with long crime fighting careers. I believe that's another reason why they've gone with Keaton replacing Affleck in the main DCEU, apart from the obvious nostalgic boost.
Can anyone here who knows more about Flashpoint or The Flash's abilities in general, tell me what capacity does The Flash have in terms of time-travel, and in view of the vast improvements in de-aging CGI, would The Flash be able to insert himself in the action of various past Batman films, and possibly alter their narratives?
As an aside, I am a huge fan of Andy Muschietti's It films, especially the first episode, and I loved the background reference to Batman 89 appearing on the local theater marquee (the summer of 89, good times indeed, even if I was too young to see Batman 89 on the big screen), but I always thought it was a missed opportunity not to have a sequence with Pennywise emerging from one of the films to attack a member of the Losers Club (say Richie, the character who appears to most frequent the local theater). Maybe it would have been impossible to sign-off Jack Nicholson's permission, but seeing as It was made by Warner Bros Studios (notice that all three films that appear on the theater marquee, Batman, Lethal Weapon 2, and Nightmare on Elm Street 5, were made by WB or its subsidiary, New Line), I always thought it would have been amazing, not to mention terrifying, to watch The Joker transform into another clown, Pennywise, and begin to taunt Richie whilst he is watching Batman 89 for the umpteenth time.
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Mon, 24 Aug 2020, 03:46
I could see them using some dialogue (perhaps deleted to overdub him if he were to say anything) from Forever
Yeah, if something like a bona-fide Kilmer Batman cameo were to actually transpire, Kilmer being overdubbed, or possibily using audio of Kilmer from any Warners film footage they might have that could be implemented into the scene.
One alternate way of going about it, would be for Chris O'Donnell being included as well and getting most of the dialogue, with Kilmer only giving a quick quip in response to conclude the scene.
However, I agree with TDK in that Affleck/Keaton being more that sufficient in providing Batman appearances. Also, TDK's idea of Barry traveling thru the speed force, and seeing a vision of Kilmer's Batman, perhaps via the use of deleted footage/B roll footage, thus giving Kilmer recognition with minimal effort works for me as well.
Quote from: johnnygobbs on Mon, 24 Aug 2020, 17:08
Can anyone here who knows more about Flashpoint or The Flash's abilities in general, tell me what capacity does The Flash have in terms of time-travel, and in view of the vast improvements in de-aging CGI, would The Flash be able to insert himself in the action of various past Batman films, and possibly alter their narratives?
Yes, he does have this capability. It's essentially the crux of the Flashpoint story line. A 'Quantum Leap' to right a wrong, but like the Butterfly Effect/DC's Elseworlds "The Nail", that action changes everything. Reverse-Flash has this capability as well.
QuoteAs an aside, I am a huge fan of Andy Muschietti's It films, especially the first episode, and I loved the background reference to Batman 89 appearing on the local theater marquee (the summer of 89, good times indeed, even if I was too young to see Batman 89 on the big screen), but I always thought it was a missed opportunity not to have a sequence with Pennywise emerging from one of the films to attack a member of the Losers Club (say Richie, the character who appears to most frequent the local theater). Maybe it would have been impossible to sign-off Jack Nicholson's permission, but seeing as It was made by Warner Bros Studios (notice that all three films that appear on the theater marquee, Batman, Lethal Weapon 2, and Nightmare on Elm Street 5, were made by WB or its subsidiary, New Line), I always thought it would have been amazing, not to mention terrifying, to watch The Joker transform into another clown, Pennywise, and begin to taunt Richie whilst he is watching Batman 89 for the umpteenth time.
Yes, I had the same feelings. Using the Creature from the Black Lagoon, or Frankenstein's Monster wouldn't make much sense or have the same impact on the Loser's Club in 1989, I too thought using 1980's monsters/slashers would have been a nice nod/change for the updated adaptation. I think a Pennywise version of Freddy Krueger could have possibily been used since New Line is under Warners if I am not mistaken.
Quote from: The Joker on Tue, 25 Aug 2020, 01:29
Yes, I had the same feelings. Using the Creature from the Black Lagoon, or Frankenstein's Monster wouldn't make much sense or have the same impact on the Loser's Club in 1989, I too thought using 1980's monsters/slashers would have been a nice nod/change for the updated adaptation. I think a Pennywise version of Freddy Krueger could have possibily been used since New Line is under Warners if I am not mistaken.
Or, or or, check this out: Flash messes up the Burtonverse timeline which means The Joker avoids his death scene altogether, rather than being resurrected.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Tue, 25 Aug 2020, 07:51
Or, or or, check this out: Flash messes up the Burtonverse timeline which means The Joker avoids his death scene altogether, rather than being resurrected.
True, and to which would give the CW Earth-89 cameo with Knox some creedence in the grand scheme of things with that "Batman captures the Joker again" newspaper headline...
Quote from: The Joker on Wed, 26 Aug 2020, 04:29
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Tue, 25 Aug 2020, 07:51
Or, or or, check this out: Flash messes up the Burtonverse timeline which means The Joker avoids his death scene altogether, rather than being resurrected.
True, and to which would give the CW Earth-89 cameo with Knox some creedence in the grand scheme of things with that "Batman captures the Joker again" newspaper headline...
I'd hope that if Batman had the capability, with The Flash, to alter time, he'd rectify the mistakes that led to the lovely Ice Princess falling to her death (maybe he could also stop Shreck pushing Selina out of a window, but since that would prevent her becoming Catwoman, maybe that's not such a great idea from a story POV - then again, if Selina doesn't become Catwoman, it's more likely she becomes the 'socialite' that is referred to in the newspaper headline who marries Bruce Wayne).
Also, I'd hope that he'd apply his later 'no-kill' policy to all the thugs and goons he killed in Batman 89 and Batman Returns, like The Strong Man with the bomb and the Fire Eater he set on fire, not to mention The Joker henchmen he machinegunned during the 200th celebration festival.
Quote from: The Joker on Wed, 26 Aug 2020, 04:29
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Tue, 25 Aug 2020, 07:51
Or, or or, check this out: Flash messes up the Burtonverse timeline which means The Joker avoids his death scene altogether, rather than being resurrected.
True, and to which would give the CW Earth-89 cameo with Knox some creedence in the grand scheme of things with that "Batman captures the Joker again" newspaper headline...
Precisely what I had in mind.
Quote from: johnnygobbs on Wed, 26 Aug 2020, 04:58
Also, I'd hope that he'd apply his later 'no-kill' policy to all the thugs and goons he killed in Batman 89 and Batman Returns, like The Strong Man with the bomb and the Fire Eater he set on fire, not to mention The Joker henchmen he machinegunned during the 200th celebration festival.
Why?
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 26 Aug 2020, 05:42
Quote from: johnnygobbs on Wed, 26 Aug 2020, 04:58
Also, I'd hope that he'd apply his later 'no-kill' policy to all the thugs and goons he killed in Batman 89 and Batman Returns, like The Strong Man with the bomb and the Fire Eater he set on fire, not to mention The Joker henchmen he machinegunned during the 200th celebration festival.
Why?
Thank you for asking.
I only mean that if Batman has adapted a no-kill policy and sworn off the type of murderous brutality he had shown villains in the past, he may have some remorse and regrets over some of his past kills.
I don't say that as one of those people who are massively critical of Keaton's Batman's tendency to kill, but it would be an interesting way of addressing some of those criticisms.
A digital artist called George Evangelista shared this amazing artwork of Keaton and Miller.
(https://i.imgur.com/amloFKn.jpg)
Source: https://www.instagram.com/p/CEYL95ZpCR_/
He even shared these excellent pictures of Keaton standing on a gargoyle, inspired by Jim Lee's Batman artwork. I would love it if we get a shot of Keaton's Batman that's equivalent to this.
(https://i.imgur.com/QUhtFSG.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/TkJcOJv.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/2uMttMo.jpg)
Source: https://www.instagram.com/p/CC0lTbBJXzA/
Quote from: johnnygobbs on Wed, 26 Aug 2020, 18:26I only mean that if Batman has adapted a no-kill policy and sworn off the type of murderous brutality he had shown villains in the past, he may have some remorse and regrets over some of his past kills.
The problem with this idea is that it runs contrary to one of the central themes of the Flashpoint comic – namely that it's better to keep moving forward and focus one's energies on building a better tomorrow than constantly looking backwards and dwelling on the unalterable misfortunes of yesterday.
The comic story begins with Barry Allen trying to undo the death of someone close to him, his mother Nora, which has the side effect of disrupting the fabric of space-time to create the dystopian Flashpoint universe. If Barry can't change the past to save his own mother, then it doesn't really make sense for him to repeatedly make the same mistake trying to undo all the deaths from Bruce's past. The only deaths I think Bruce would really consider altering anyway would be those of his parents, and doing so would only unravel the thread of causality to create a temporal paradox that would put him right back where he started – if his parents didn't die, he'd never become Batman and would thus never travel back in time to prevent their deaths. Barry could theoretically use the Speed Force to circumvent this problem, but Bruce couldn't.
Besides, I think most fans would rather see Bat-Keats in a new story rather than have him revisit scenes from the older films. I know I would.
I'm seeing a lot of speculation that Keaton might be digitally-de-aged for most of The Flash before appearing at the end of the film as old Bruce. Some fans think they'll make him look like he did in his forties, similar to how Samuel L Jackson was de-aged for Captain Marvel. That way he'll look roughly the same age he would have been had he starred in Batman Forever. I'm not sure how I feel about that. I think I'd rather he be old Batman, but with some flashback scenes showing a digitally de-aged Bruce training pre-89, or fighting Burtonised versions of other classic comic villains after the events of BR. But for the main story, I like the idea of him being an older Batman who's been fighting crime nonstop for the past three decades.
I also like the idea that Keaton will be the only Batman actor to have played the part in live action during four different decades of his life: he was in his thirties when he shot the 1989 film, in his forties when he filmed Batman Returns, he'll be in his sixties when he shoots The Flash early next year, and he'll be in his seventies when he makes any further appearances after that. The only decades of his adult life where he didn't play the role were his twenties and fifties.
Another rumour that's going round is that Reverse Flash will not be the main villain in the movie: https://heroichollywood.com/ezra-miller-reverse-flash-the-flash-main-villain/
This is weird, considering Thawne was the catalyst for the plot in the original comic. I can understand Flash fans being ticked off about this. Ever since they announced Flashpoint was the inspiration for this movie, I've regarded it as less of a Flash solo outing and more of a Justice League story focusing on Barry and Bruce; similar to how Captain America: Civil War is really an Avengers film focusing on Tony and Steve rather than a true Cap solo movie. Flashpoint is one of those stories you have to build up to. Using it as the basis for the first Flash solo film is like using The Killing Joke or A Death in the Family as the basis for the first Batman film. I was dead against the idea... until they announced Keaton was coming back, whereupon my inner Bat-fan brutally beat my inner Flash-fan into submission. Now I'm 100% in favour of it. As far as I'm concerned, this is really a Justice League movie starring Batman and the Flash. They should re-title it Flashpoint IMO.
Anyway, if Reverse Flash isn't the villain, then who will be? I've seen some comments speculating that it might be the Napier Joker. I hope that's not true. I'd love to see Napier resurrected, but they should save that for the Batman Beyond movie and have DiCaprio play the part.
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/scaled/2014/07/07/article-2683106-1F735A9500000578-568_636x382.jpg)
It doesn't make sense for Joker to be the bad guy in this particular story anyway. So how about another Flash villain like Abra Kadabra or Hunter Zolomon/Zoom? I'd be very surprised if we didn't see some Burtonised Batman villains make an appearance (ideally Scarecrow and Billy Dee Two-Face), but I'm not sure any of them would be suitable as the main antagonist.
Here are some fan posters by Yadvender Singh Rana:
(https://i.postimg.cc/8C7d4pWc/flashposter.png)
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8e/e3/77/8ee3774095c30396dddc5824ff4d9477.jpg)
I love how the batsuit in that last one mixes the 89 costume with the Returns cowl. Hopefully his costume in the finished film will look similar to this.
(https://i.postimg.cc/W1yx9yBp/keats.png)
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu, 27 Aug 2020, 16:18I'm seeing a lot of speculation that Keaton might be digitally-de-aged for most of The Flash before appearing at the end of the film as old Bruce. Some fans think they'll make him look like he did in his forties, similar to how Samuel L Jackson was de-aged for Captain Marvel. That way he'll look roughly the same age he would have been had he starred in Batman Forever. I'm not sure how I feel about that. I think I'd rather he be old Batman, but with some flashback scenes showing a digitally de-aged Bruce training pre-89, or fighting Burtonised versions of other classic comic villains after the events of BR. But for the main story, I like the idea of him being an older Batman who's been fighting crime nonstop for the past three decades.
I get the idea that a lot of actors are touchy about de-aging technology. They seem to want their face as it is right now to feature prominently in a movie. There are rumors that the de-aging bit from Civil War took a
LOT of convincing for Downey to agree to.
Unless we see young(er) Bruce without a mask, I don't see much of a need for de-aging anyway.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu, 27 Aug 2020, 16:18This is weird, considering Thawne was the catalyst for the plot in the original comic. I can understand Flash fans being ticked off about this. Ever since they announced Flashpoint was the inspiration for this movie, I've regarded it as less of a Flash solo outing and more of a Justice League story focusing on Barry and Bruce; similar to how Captain America: Civil War is really an Avengers film focusing on Tony and Steve rather than a true Cap solo movie. Flashpoint is one of those stories you have to build up to. Using it as the basis for the first Flash solo film is like using The Killing Joke or A Death in the Family as the basis for the first Batman film. I was dead against the idea... until they announced Keaton was coming back, whereupon my inner Bat-fan brutally beat my inner Flash-fan into submission. Now I'm 100% in favour of it. As far as I'm concerned, this is really a Justice League movie starring Batman and the Flash. They should re-title it Flashpoint IMO.
Ditto. For me, Keaton coming back trumps everything else. Doesn't matter, Keaton's Batman again, nothing else is important. It's a similar attitude to what I had back in Smallville's tenth season, when the showrunners found a way to bring John Glover back to the show. I was grateful that they found a clever way of doing it. But at the end of the day,
he was back on the show and so nothing else seemed important to me. Same with Keaton as Batman. Times about a million tho.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu, 27 Aug 2020, 16:18
Anyway, if Reverse Flash isn't the villain, then who will be? I've seen some comments speculating that it might be the Napier Joker. I hope that's not true. I'd love to see Napier resurrected, but they should save that for the Batman Beyond movie and have DiCaprio play the part.
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/scaled/2014/07/07/article-2683106-1F735A9500000578-568_636x382.jpg)
It doesn't make sense for Joker to be the bad guy in this particular story anyway. So how about another Flash villain like Abra Kadabra or Hunter Zolomon/Zoom? I'd be very surprised if we didn't see some Burtonised Batman villains make an appearance (ideally Scarecrow and Billy Dee Two-Face), but I'm not sure any of them would be suitable as the main antagonist.
Leo seems decidedly opposed to comic book films. There's just no way that being offered the Joker in Flashpoint is the first comic book role he's ever gotten. Hell, it might not even be the first time he's been offered the Joker. I wouldn't be too surprised if he got tapped on the shoulder for Suicide Squad, for example.
If somebody really wants to toy with the multiverse bit tho, they could give Tom Cavanagh a call about playing Thawne. That might be kind of cheeky. Worst case, they could use Matt Letscher as Thawne, he'd be fun too.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 27 Aug 2020, 18:57
Leo seems decidedly opposed to comic book films. There's just no way that being offered the Joker in Flashpoint is the first comic book role he's ever gotten. Hell, it might not even be the first time he's been offered the Joker. I wouldn't be too surprised if he got tapped on the shoulder for Suicide Squad, for example.
Weird as this may sound, I actually respect him for that. It would be easy to follow the Hollywood herd and take the big Marvel/DC pay cheque. Guys like DiCaprio and Gosling must have been offered more than their share of CBMS, but I like the fact they're avoiding those kinds of movies in favour of smaller and more interesting projects. Jake Gyllenhaal was in a similar situation before appearing in Spider-Man: Far From Home, and while he was very good as Mysterio a part of me wishes he hadn't done that film.
In DiCaprio's case, you're right that he probably wouldn't want to play the Joker. But if we're fan casting younger actors who could replace Jack, I can't think of anyone better. I say 'younger', but Leo's only about five years younger than Jack was when he shot Batman 89. By time a Batman Beyond film entered production, if indeed it does enter production, then he'd be almost the exact same age as Jack was back then. He'd also be the right age to play a mature Robin who had served alongside Bat-Keaton thirty years ago and was presently possessed by the Joker's spirit.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 27 Aug 2020, 18:57If somebody really wants to toy with the multiverse bit tho, they could give Tom Cavanagh a call about playing Thawne. That might be kind of cheeky. Worst case, they could use Matt Letscher as Thawne, he'd be fun too.
I'm not a fan of the Arrowverse, but I thought Cavanagh was excellent as Reverse Flash. He was easily the best actor on that show. I wouldn't object to him reprising the part in this film.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu, 27 Aug 2020, 19:56In DiCaprio's case, you're right that he probably wouldn't want to play the Joker. But if we're fan casting younger actors who could replace Jack, I can't think of anyone better. I say 'younger', but Leo's only about five years younger than Jack was when he shot Batman 89. By time a Batman Beyond film entered production, if indeed it does enter production, then he'd be almost the exact same age as Jack was back then. He'd also be the right age to play a mature Robin who had served alongside Bat-Keaton thirty years ago and was presently possessed by the Joker's spirit.
A friend of mine who claims to be in a position to know swears that DiCaprio gets offered basically everything. In this case, "offer" could mean an outright offer or it could mean "come in and audition". But basically, something like 80 or 85% of movie scripts from major studios come his way sooner or later. Obviously, he turns most of them down. But they keep coming because the ones he says "yes" to have a funny way of finding success of some kind.
DiCaprio has my undying gratitude for giving Scorsese a creative second wind. There was a point in the late 90's when Scorsese seemed like he'd lost the fire in his belly from earlier times. Coincidentally or not, he got it back when started working with DiCaprio and has been roaring along ever since.
And I'm with you. Ten years ago, I probably would've resented him turning down comic book movies. But these days, I totally support him and kind of hope he never does one.
But in terms of fan-casting, yeah, DiCaprio as Napier's Joker is a fun thought tho.
Btw, Joaquin Phoenix was a card-carrying member of that same group for a long while too. He got offered tons of comic book movies. I'm grateful that he held out for JOKER.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu, 27 Aug 2020, 19:56I'm not a fan of the Arrowverse, but I thought Cavanagh was excellent as Reverse Flash. He was easily the best actor on that show. I wouldn't object to him reprising the part in this film.
I think the problem with the Arrowverse these days is that most of the longtimers aren't really invested in their characters anymore. Gustin and Benoist are the most obvious examples but virtually everybody in those shows looks like they're ready to move on.
For everything I could say about Brandon Routh, he's had a really tough go of it since Superman Returns tanked. He was written out of the Arrowverse, and not really by choice. I get the idea his attachment to Ray Palmer was more of an attachment to ongoing employment. Nevertheless, he was committed to that character... in his typical wooden, bland style.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu, 27 Aug 2020, 19:56
Weird as this may sound, I actually respect him for that. It would be easy to follow the Hollywood herd and take the big Marvel/DC pay cheque. Guys like DiCaprio and Gosling must have been offered more than their share of CBMS, but I like the fact they're avoiding those kinds of movies in favour of smaller and more interesting projects. Jake Gyllenhaal was in a similar situation before appearing in Spider-Man: Far From Home, and while he was very good as Mysterio a part of me wishes he hadn't done that film.
Gyllenhaal as Mysterio is one of those things where I don't know if I'll ever be entirely comfortable with. Sure, he was good enough in the role (despite being yet another MCU spider-man villain who's creation sparked with Mr. Stark rather than his ward *sigh*), but I literally had Bruce Campbell for
years as Mysterio in my mind, even after the ASM reboot, and it's one of those things I'll always wonder about. Similar to Robin Williams as the Riddler circa 1995.
QuoteIn DiCaprio's case, you're right that he probably wouldn't want to play the Joker. But if we're fan casting younger actors who could replace Jack, I can't think of anyone better. I say 'younger', but Leo's only about five years younger than Jack was when he shot Batman 89. By time a Batman Beyond film entered production, if indeed it does enter production, then he'd be almost the exact same age as Jack was back then. He'd also be the right age to play a mature Robin who had served alongside Bat-Keaton thirty years ago and was presently possessed by the Joker's spirit.
I agree that Dicaprio would be the apex as far as having someone who could completely embody Jack Nicholson's Joker. But talk about shooting for the moon and hoping for the best. In any event, the casting for the Beyond Joker is, in my mind, going to be a very delicate issue. Sure, familiar lines, weapons, or dubbed in audio from Nicholson (perhaps from b roll footage, or deleted takes that Warners may have in their vaults .... i would assume stuff like that wasn't destroyed or left to rot, but this is Warners we're talking about, so absolute incompetence definitely isn't out of the question here) are good cinematic aides to sell the notion of 'possession', but whoever is cast is going to have their work cut out for him, in addition to having to have a cinematic presence and confidence to just even be worthy of Jack Nicholson's Joker. This isn't yet another Joker incarnation that's seperate from prior versions with no ties. Beyond's Joker is literally Jack Napier Joker picking up from where 1989 left off. The fact that this is even in the cards to begin with is pretty wild.
Quote from: The Joker on Fri, 4 Sep 2020, 03:02
This isn't yet another Joker incarnation that's seperate from prior versions with no ties. Beyond's Joker is literally Jack Napier Joker picking up from where 1989 left off. The fact that this is even in the cards to begin with is pretty wild.
The comparisons to DisneyWars are there in concept. Palpatine coming back after being stone cold dead with barely any concrete explanation, and the galaxy not really caring all that much about it. Only to be killed off in the lamest way possible shortly after. A Nicholson Joker resurrection must avoid these mistakes. Properly explain how he has returned, have the populated terrified by this legendary villain, and if he dies AGAIN the moment is tasteful. DisneyWars is a scar on a franchise I have walked away from - but there's so much to learn from their bungling.
(https://i.postimg.cc/L6TY5KfC/flashposter.png)
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun, 20 Sep 2020, 16:19
(https://i.postimg.cc/L6TY5KfC/flashposter.png)
wonderful
Rumors are flying that Grant Gustin, Tom Welling and others will all be making cameos in The Flash film.
I won't bother linking to articles about that because I don't believe a single word of it. Nevertheless, those rumors are making the rounds.
It appears that Billy Crudup is very likely to reprise his role as Barry Allen's father again.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/billy-crudup-in-talks-to-join-the-flash-exclusive
If so, that's very good. It maintains some original DCEU continuity together with Miller and Affleck.
The Flash's release date, like many other WB films, is delayed. Now the film will be scheduled to open on November 2022.
Lame. I wouldn't be surprised if we see more delays, both in terms of the release and filming.
Ray Fisher last week condemned DC Films president Walter Hamada for enabling abuse and interfering with the investigation on what happened on the set of JL, and declared he won't work in any production that involves Hamada. Which curiously, was followed up with Hamada getting a contract extension.
The Wrap wrote a hit piece saying Fisher has stood down from the Cyborg role and his appearance in The Flash has been scrapped, but it won't be recast.
Fisher responded by saying he did NOT stand down, nor did he confirm he won't appear in The Flash.
Quote from: Ray Fisher
I strongly suggest that @TheWrap amend this article immediately.
While I appreciate the reporter's undying desire to do @wbpictures and Walter Hamada's bidding—it is factually inaccurate.
I did not publicly step down from anything.
If @wbpictures has made the decision to remove me from The Flash, rather than address, in any way, Walter Hamada tampering with the JL investigation—that's on them.
The idea of removing the role, rather than recasting it, is only being used to try to avoid public backlash.
The @wbpictures pr team has struggled to regain control of the narrative ever since they failed to bury me and the JL investigation with their September 4th hit piece—which, unsurprisingly, was written by the same reporter.
(More on WB pr and Johanna Fuentes later...)
The fact is: the Justice League investigation led to @WarnerMedia (and it's affiliates) parting ways with Joss Whedon.
Geoff Johns will be following suit.
Had Walter Hamada gotten his way, NONE of that would have been possible, and the cycle of abuse would've continued.
My team and I are still in deep conversation with @WarnerMedia regarding all these matters and—Flash or no Flash—we fully intend to see this through.
I'll keep you all posted, but in the meantime—thank you for your continued support
A>E
https://twitter.com/ray8fisher/status/1347331765841633286
Fisher wrote these tweets at around 11am today. I've highlighted the part in bold with him saying Johns is expected to part ways, and what happens next? Variety tweeted this story that Johns was still working at WarnerMedia, which was published later in the afternoon.
https://twitter.com/Variety/status/1347380986254802944
WB is desperately trying to control the narrative. It's getting pathetic. Five or so months ago, Fisher described his discussions with Hamada on Instagram, and mentioned Hamada tried to persuade him to throw Whedon under the bus as long as let Johns off the hook because he's considered to be valuable. Yeah right, "valuable". Johns was one of the key instigators behind the whole Josstice League debacle. Since then, the guy has been demoted from his role as DC Films chief, was given co-writing credit for Aquaman and WW84 but has otherwise stayed silent for the past three years. He hasn't even participated in promoting WW84, which seems very odd.
So far, Fisher appears to be correct in saying WB is trying to protect these incompetent corrupt people while using media outlets writing their own hit pieces. If Fisher was a troublemaker and a liar or embellished his claims in any way, he would've been sued for slander by now. For what it's worth, Fisher claimed Hamada thinks Whedon is an asshole and challenged Hamada to sue him if that wasn't the case. The silence on the matter says a lot.
Instead, we get stupid hit pieces of "insider sources" trying to throw shade at Fisher, dubious press releases of a new film starring Jason Momoa and produced by Johns and Berg, which got debunked by Momoa himself - as well as throwing his support behind Fisher - and trying to save face for Johns and Berg over "voluntarily" not getting involved with ZSJL while reporting Leto's return as the Joker. Give me a break.
It's definitely an awkward state of affairs. Producer Barbara Muschietti allegedly promised that Cyborg would return in The Flash, but if WB has their way and drop him then that would cause some interference. It doesn't sound like Cyborg's alleged involvement is that big, but will it then lead to more studio tampering with the production as what happened to SS and JL? Let's hope not.
If the hit pieces continue, I think Fisher, Momoa and others need to speak out in greater detail about what happened. WarnerMedia said they concluded their investigation over JL a month ago and said they'd take "remedial action" but didn't say what it was exactly. If they fail to address this matter transparently then the actors may need to start talking about it in detail.
I've read some bullsh*t rumour that WB wants Danny DeVito to reprise his Penguin role in a cameo. Complete nonsense, we all know Penguin was killed off in the end of BR. Unless, Barry changes something in the Burtonverse timeline.
Nah, I highly doubt it.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Mon, 11 Jan 2021, 00:20
I've read some bullsh*t rumour that WB wants Danny DeVito to reprise his Penguin role in a cameo. Complete nonsense, we all know Penguin was killed off in the end of BR. Unless, Barry changes something in the Burtonverse timeline.
Nah, I highly doubt it.
DeVito is pretty open about how much he loved that character. I could believe that he would relish coming back. But there's a long road between that and actually being willing to come back.
Color me skeptical.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Mon, 11 Jan 2021, 00:20
I've read some bullsh*t rumour that WB wants Danny DeVito to reprise his Penguin role in a cameo. Complete nonsense, we all know Penguin was killed off in the end of BR. Unless, Barry changes something in the Burtonverse timeline.
Nah, I highly doubt it.
Or maybe the Flash arrives in 1992 Burtonverse Gotham from the speed force, encounters Penguin, makes a snarky remark (with probably a comedic reaction from Penguin), and then just decides to quickly run right back into the speed force where he ends up in in current day Burtonverse Gotham?
That way, nothing is retconned, and it's just a cutesy nod to remind people just how awesome Danny Devito as the Penguin was.
But yeah, I remember Danny being on "Inside the Actors Studio", and near the end of the show, where members of the audience could then ask questions, Danny got more questions about the Penguin than any other role he had (at least 2-3 if I am remembering right), and he seemed like he had a lot of affection for that performance. Even referring to him as "Oswald", and not so much, "The Penguin".
I would say pretty much on par to how Jack Nicholson came across when discussing his portrayal of the Joker in the Batman89 2005 SE documentaries.
Quote from: The Joker on Mon, 11 Jan 2021, 00:46
Or maybe the Flash arrives in 1992 Burtonverse Gotham from the speed force, encounters Penguin, makes a snarky remark (with probably a comedic reaction from Penguin), and then just decides to quickly run right back into the speed force where he ends up in in current day Burtonverse Gotham?
If it happens I'd choose this route.
IMO any scene would have to be done in an interior setting, because the look of Gotham in Flashpoint would probably have to be consistent. Eg. having a DeVito Penguin roaming around a B89 style Gotham, if the B89 aesthetic is what they're going with, would feel odd. How about Flash stumbling into the Hall of Records while Penguin is compiling his list? There's a disturbance because Oswald is not meant to be disturbed, so Flash promptly leaves.
Quote from: The Joker on Mon, 11 Jan 2021, 00:46I would say pretty much on par to how Jack Nicholson came across when discussing his portrayal of the Joker in the Batman89 2005 SE documentaries.
Y'know, for some reason this never clicked for me before.
But all of Burton's villains seem to cherish those characters. Nicholson, DeVito, Pfeiffer, they all adore those performances. Nicholson maintains that B89 is one of his finest performances. He got paid some serious F You money for that movie, which helps. But he seems to adore that performance and the same is true for the BR villains. I love Schumacher's films but I haven't seen Jones, Carrey, Thurman or Ahnuld wax nostalgic about those characters years later. Considering the amount of creative input Thurman had for Poison Ivy, that's a bit surprising. I could understand her saying something like "The movie's not good but I love that character!" But they haven't. Neeson, Hardy and that French broad are basically the same with their Nolanverse characters.
But Nicholson, DeVito and Pfeiffer have kept the home fires burning all these years. I just find that fascinating, personally.
Is producer Barbara Muschietti teasing Reverse-Flash?
https://www.instagram.com/p/CJ51sxaLdHR/
Quote from: The Joker on Mon, 11 Jan 2021, 00:46
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Mon, 11 Jan 2021, 00:20
I've read some bullsh*t rumour that WB wants Danny DeVito to reprise his Penguin role in a cameo. Complete nonsense, we all know Penguin was killed off in the end of BR. Unless, Barry changes something in the Burtonverse timeline.
Nah, I highly doubt it.
Or maybe the Flash arrives in 1992 Burtonverse Gotham from the speed force, encounters Penguin, makes a snarky remark (with probably a comedic reaction from Penguin), and then just decides to quickly run right back into the speed force where he ends up in in current day Burtonverse Gotham?
That way, nothing is retconned, and it's just a cutesy nod to remind people just how awesome Danny Devito as the Penguin was.
That could work. As long as it doesn't do something stupid as breaking continuity like Alexander Knox's cameo in CW's Crisis on Infinite Earths, it should be fine.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EGm0oRJX4AA1GLv.jpg:large)
(https://theopinionarcade.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Arrowverse-Earth-89-Gotham.png)
Hmmm. I wonder if the original newspaper headline with Keaton was scrapped because they plan to use it for this film?
(https://i.imgur.com/pxzWC9Q.gif)
sh*t news: Ray Fisher has confirmed that Warner Butchers did remove him from The Flash after all, and revealed Cyborg was meant to have a big role. He explained in two pictures that this is punishment for calling out DC Films President Walter Hamada, who was accused by Fisher of interfering with the investigation over the misconduct during Josstice League's reshoots, as well as trying to protect Geoff Johns during that time.
Source: https://twitter.com/ray8fisher/status/1349500170896084992
Great, another DC movie meddled by insidious studio politics. It's a disgrace. >:(
Miller's cameo in CW's Crisis on Infinite Earths was supposed to foreshadow this film, along with the line at the end, "I told Victor this was possible". So yeah, Cyborg was expected to appear.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt26xI5fw2w
WarnerMedia has responded by apparently siding with Hamada, and used the trades like THR to write hit-pieces about Fisher's "attacks", as well as stating Johns is still working with the company, in an attempt to contradict Fisher's claims that Johns is expected to leave. Hiding behind hit pieces, yet again. So much for the corporate entity's announcement in repairing its image in light of recent reports of its toxic workplace environment.
It's pathetic. Just when I thought the DCEU was getting things back on track, this sh*t happens. If Andy Muschietti wasn't involved in the decision to scrap Fisher's Cyborg from The Flash then it goes to show this will be a film made-by-committee. That's how we got Josstice League. I'd be very surprised if Affleck doesn't drop out, the studio's meddling and how it soured the production experience on JL was one of the key reasons why he left the Batman role in the first place.
I regret to say it, but I'm going to put my enthusiasm for The Flash on hold and see what else happens.
By the way, anyone who is doubting Fisher's credibility in any way, let me ask you something: don't you think it's a little odd that Warner hasn't sued him for defamation yet? If Fisher was lying and making libelous claims about all of these people, he would've been taken to court by now. Instead, all we from WB are these petty little hit pieces and ridiculous fake press releases to movies that aren't even in production to make the Josstice League producers look good, which even Momoa called out its bullsh*t. Anyone who doesn't think these are attempts to control the narrative is a fool. Because if the studio has nothing to hide, they would've canned Fisher's ass legally a long time ago.
As far as I can tell, I'm inclined to believe in the lesser-known actor who is putting his own career on the line, and not the studio with a notorious history of internal sabotage. And by all accounts, discrimination.
That being said, I reckon it's about time for everyone else who was subjected to abuse and misconduct on the JL reshoots to come forward and talk about their experiences because it's evidently clear that WarnerMedia/WB can't be trusted in holding anyone accountable.
EVS did a video breaking down how much Geoff Johns did to work against the DCEU.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uzftMvZCnQ
Frankly, some of the things Johns did actually sound like they worked for the benefit of the universe. But there are still pretty bad decisions made here.
EVS is a longtime friend and collaborator with Johns but he's careful to say that they're not rly "friends" as such.
I have no time for Ethan Van Sciver. All he does is post anti-SJW outrage clickbait on YouTube every day and he comes across as a bitter troll. The fact he is friends with Johns and has mocked Fisher on social media shows he isn't impartial on the issue.
Johns is a grown man who can defend himself. If he feels he is used as a scapegoat for the DCEU's problems then he can tell his side of the story. If Fisher is making libellous statements then Johns can easily take him to court. His silence on the matter is saying a lot.
Fisher has uploaded a snippet of his last interview with a WarnerMedia investigator, who praised him for his credibility.
https://www.twitter.com/ray8fisher/status/1350233808675741696
This is getting even more interesting.
Deadline's reporting that actress Sasha Calle has been cast as Supergirl in The Flash: https://deadline.com/2021/02/supergirl-young-and-the-restless-actress-sasha-calle-the-flash-movie-dc-1234697190/
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Fri, 19 Feb 2021, 19:16
Deadline's reporting that actress Sasha Calle has been cast as Supergirl in The Flash: https://deadline.com/2021/02/supergirl-young-and-the-restless-actress-sasha-calle-the-flash-movie-dc-1234697190/
Everything is stupid and nothing matters.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 19 Feb 2021, 19:51
Everything is stupid and nothing matters.
How convenient that this news gets published on the day when Zack Snyder officially announced that ZSJL will be released worldwide at the same time as the US.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Fri, 19 Feb 2021, 19:16
Deadline's reporting that actress Sasha Calle has been cast as Supergirl in The Flash: https://deadline.com/2021/02/supergirl-young-and-the-restless-actress-sasha-calle-the-flash-movie-dc-1234697190/
I have zero interest in Supergirl. None. We get this but not Cavill?
In addition to making her debut appearance in ZSJL, which is only a week away now, it has been confirmed Kiersey Clemons will reprise her role as Iris West in The Flash.
Meanwhile, Ray Fisher called out THR for wrongfully reporting that Snyder removed her from the theatrical cut.
Quote from: Ray Fisher
Zack Snyder NEVER cut Kiersey Clemons from Justice League. @TatianaSiegel27 and @THR please fix this article immediately and check your sources.
https://www.twitter.com/ray8fisher/status/1370093422422409218
Quote from: Ray Fisher
I appreciate those @THR attempting to help mitigate blowback for the racist decision-making of @wbpictures executives in 2017.
But hear me now, Zack Snyder NEVER cut Kiersey Clemons from Justice League.
Fix this article immediately.
https://www.twitter.com/ray8fisher/status/1370091814414393349
Rumour has it that Batfleck will die in a similar fashion to Barry Allen and Supergirl in the 1985 Crisis on Infinite Earths comic, in a bid to erase the Snyderverse from canon. >:(
https://geekositymag.com/the-flash-movie-may-erase-snyderverse-from-canon/
If this is true, I have no interest in watching The Flash. It is disappointing for me to say this, but now I really hope Affleck and Keaton get the f*** out of this sh*t show. I kinda want Miller to kick up a fuss too, though I don't think he has that much power.
Billy Crudup isn't reprising his role as Henry Allen, by the way. Shame, he was another character in ZSJL who provided warmth, particularly during the ending montage.
Following up on the rumours surrounding The Flash, Geekosity has another supposed scoop - that HBO Max still wants to produce Affleck's Batman script, albeit set it up as a prequel.
https://geekositymag.com/hbo-max-craves-ben-affleck-batman-movie-after-snydercut-success/
As this was already discussed a few times in the JL sub-forum, this blog mentions these ongoing organisational disputes at WarnerMedia/AT&T. AT&T and HBO Max supposedly see value in continuing the Snyderverse, while those clowns at WB want to persist with ïts "vision of unconnected comic-book movies mostly served with lower budgets". I've also read somewhere WB still wants to copy the MCU formula as they see it as their pathway to success.
https://www.small-screen.co.uk/ben-affleck-batman-returning-the-flash-movie/
If that's not off-putting enough, Geekosity claims The Flash will be "a hodgepodge of Back to the Future, Flashpoint, Crisis on Infinite Earths, and The Last Jedi".
If that's so, my sudden loss of confidence in the film is justified. I don't like the idea of taking ideas of heroic deaths from COIE that doesn't involve Flash (never mind this is supposed to be his first standalone film), and I definitely have no interest in a Last Jedi-style plotline in the DC universe. For example, can you imagine if Keaton suffers a Jake Skywalker moment? Again, I'd rather he leave the project. Going back to Batfleck, I have no desire to see him possibly getting killed off because of a spiteful studio that wants to erase the Snyderverse canon in order to reboot and copy its MCU counterpart. From what I've heard, Aquaman was the only real financial success they had that was close to formula, and I wouldn't be surprised if Jason Momoa's outspoken support for the Snyder cut in the lead-up to that movie's release might've contributed to its success.
If Geekosity is right and HBO Max wants to pursue Affleck's Batman project and the rest of the Snyderverse, that's great. If it all comes to fruition, that's even better. But I'm still not happy about how The Flash is turning out, assuming these rumours are true.
In case nobody else knew, New Gods had been in development...until today. It was announced that the project, and an Aquaman spin-off, got shelved. One of the reasons WB gave for the decision to cancel New Gods was due to Darkseid's appearance in ZSJL making things "complicated". This is interesting to say since they went on record saying they have no interest in continuing the Snyderverse after ZSJL. Sure, there may be only one Darkseid in the multiverse, but since when did WB give a damn about canon?
https://www.cinemablend.com/news/2565258/dc-dropped-aquaman-spinoff-more-warner-bros-trench-new-gods
Some may think this might be good news for the Snyderverse, but according to Forbes writer Mark Hughes, this means those hacks at WB have another agenda:
Quote from: Mark Hughes
New Gods' cancellation isn't related to ZSJL, it was cancelled b/c that project & its sequels no longer fit into changed plans for the DCEU. The changed plans also have nothing to do w/ZSJL, it's b/c the Flashpoint film is resetting the DCEU w/a slate of connected projects.
https://twitter.com/markhughesfilms/status/1377846334800027651
So much for the multiverse. ::)
Meanwhile, Ray Fisher was interviewed on the LightCast YouTube channel a few days ago, and said there wasn't any version of The Flash that didn't feature Cyborg. He expressed having kind words for Andy Muschietti and said the script that he read last year was awesome.
https://www.comingsoon.net/movies/news/1167802-ray-fisher-addresses-cyborgs-removal-from-the-flash-movie
Maybe it was, but now with Warner Butcher's shenanigans, I'm going to assume Muschietti has completely lost creative control of the project. It pisses me off The Flash was looking promising last year, but WB's mismanagement and petty attempts to undermine actors and demand for the Snyderverse threatens to derail the film.
Fisher on Cyborg's role in The Flash.
Quote
Andy [Muschietti] seems to have his head on straight and understood these characters by making it about the relationship more than just a display of superpowers. We were on the same page about that, and it'll be a bummer if there is no way to resolve the issue.
https://www.cinemablend.com/news/2565756/could-cyborg-still-appear-the-flash-movie-ray-fisher-says-dc-flashpoint
What a mess. I'm definitely convinced that Muschietti is not complicit in removing Cyborg from the film. Unless the character gets reinstated, it goes to show he has lost creative control.
Michael Keaton's talent representation has confirmed...
He's back!
The Wrap is reporting that Keaton's talent agency, ICM Partners, has confirmed the actor will appear in The Flash movie.
Official logo.
(https://cdn3.movieweb.com/i/article/FsgDRuwdsP4n7EQFUQKLIoT4Noz5hw/1200:100/The-Flash-Movie-Logo-Filming-Start-Date.jpg)
I was hoping they'd change the title to Flashpoint. Oh well.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Mon, 19 Apr 2021, 21:00
Michael Keaton's talent representation has confirmed...
He's back!
The Wrap is reporting that Keaton's talent agency, ICM Partners, has confirmed the actor will appear in The Flash movie.
It's really happening. Let's hope the content he's about to film satisfies our desires.
The Batfleckmobile has also been teased to return. It's been speculated Affleck won't wear the suit, so if that's the case, it could be a bunch of scenes in the cave and lakehouse. Early days, though. Anything could happen.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Tue, 20 Apr 2021, 00:38
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Mon, 19 Apr 2021, 21:00
Michael Keaton's talent representation has confirmed...
He's back!
The Wrap is reporting that Keaton's talent agency, ICM Partners, has confirmed the actor will appear in The Flash movie.
It's really happening. Let's hope the content he's about to film satisfies our desires.
The Batfleckmobile has also been teased to return. It's been speculated Affleck won't wear the suit, so if that's the case, it could be a bunch of scenes in the cave and lakehouse. Early days, though. Anything could happen.
Here's hoping. I hear he arrives in London this week. Here we go!
I'm happy that Keaton is back in the role after thirty years, but thanks to the f***ery going on at WB, I can't say I'm excited about this film any more. Not at this very moment at least.
I don't think The Flash is getting made in good faith, and until things change at the studio, I'm going to remain very skeptical. Such a shame, I was so excited for this film a year ago.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Tue, 20 Apr 2021, 01:10
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Tue, 20 Apr 2021, 00:38
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Mon, 19 Apr 2021, 21:00
Michael Keaton's talent representation has confirmed...
He's back!
The Wrap is reporting that Keaton's talent agency, ICM Partners, has confirmed the actor will appear in The Flash movie.
It's really happening. Let's hope the content he's about to film satisfies our desires.
The Batfleckmobile has also been teased to return. It's been speculated Affleck won't wear the suit, so if that's the case, it could be a bunch of scenes in the cave and lakehouse. Early days, though. Anything could happen.
Here's hoping. I hear he arrives in London this week. Here we go!
The yellow emblem has been absent from live action for far too long. It's fitting it should return with Keaton. It's time.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Mon, 19 Apr 2021, 21:00
Michael Keaton's talent representation has confirmed...
He's back!
The Wrap is reporting that Keaton's talent agency, ICM Partners, has confirmed the actor will appear in The Flash movie.
That just made my decade. You know, in my senior yearbook way back in 97 (*cough cough*) I said it was my ambition to
make it through university with good grades, figure out what I want to do in life, and see Michael Keaton don the bat-suit one more time. So, I'm prettttttty sure you guys have me to thank for speaking this into existence nearly 25 years ago. Wink wink, nudge nudge. ha!
I also wonder if his cape will be CG (for the most part) like the current films. I would cut down the weight of the suit. I can't wait till the set leaked photos come out (if they do)
Yeah it will be interesting if they build on the two Tim Burton-era suits and change or tweak them just a bit. I hope they don't go for the Affleck-heavily armored look, but they may do that... being older now he may be the sort of Kingdom Come Bruce Wayne where everybody knows he's Batman.
Quote from: KeatonisBatman on Thu, 22 Apr 2021, 05:45
Yeah it will be interesting if they build on the two Tim Burton-era suits and change or tweak them just a bit. I hope they don't go for the Affleck-heavily armored look, but they may do that... being older now he may be the sort of Kingdom Come Bruce Wayne where everybody knows he's Batman.
My guess is you might get both. The conceptual rendering they revealed at DC Fandom where Flash and Batman team up was dead on 89. Similarly, it has been noticed by eagle eyed viewers that in the teased photo of the Batmobile that Picture Vehicles LTD built for the film, it is going for a dead on 89 look, even ignoring the changes that Returns made to the car. My thinking, in conjunction with some of the rumors I heard, is that WB is ramping up nostalgia big time to sell this movie, and have gone so far as to promote the 89 world over Returns even in small details. 89 is the one people better remember and respect in the general audience.
If Keaton's involvement goes beyond a single set piece they'll add a new toy to the mix in the form of an armored batsuit I think. Either way, they want that nostalgia pop. You'll get a (perhaps overdose) of the classic.
But, that's the catch. It was rumored early on that Keaton was co headlining the picture, it now appears while he'll get more than a cameo, it was not nearly as significant as was once believed
Has Dave Lea said anything? I know he was wanting another Batman/Burton film and to come back as Keaton's double.
Tobey Maguire's main stunt double has returned for the new film, granted time hasn't passed as much but it would be cool to see him return.
Also, I wonder how much control Keaton has on his character, WB basically gave Burton free reign on Returns and he was pretty much eye to eye with Keaton and we know Affleck has a lot of issues with JL but I would suspect Keaton having some control baked in as this is one of those roles he's rather protective about.
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Fri, 23 Apr 2021, 13:35
Also, I wonder how much control Keaton has on his character, WB basically gave Burton free reign on Returns and he was pretty much eye to eye with Keaton and we know Affleck has a lot of issues with JL but I would suspect Keaton having some control baked in as this is one of those roles he's rather protective about.
Affleck faced a lot of problems during the transition of power going on at DC Films at the time. Joe Manganiello even said the solo Batman film was cancelled as soon as the Whedon reshoots took place. The reshoots soured the experience for everyone working on JL, and the misconduct that has been brought to light since has exacerbated the situation. It was one of, if not, THE driving factors that drove Affleck away from the role, until ZSJL and The Flash.
I'm not sure how much control Keaton can gain over his Batman now he has to deal with the current regime at WB. The way the studio is run nowadays, BR could never get made today. The cynic in me suspects Keaton could see this as a cash grab. It's too early to tell, but I don't trust the studio. At the same time, I don't want to think Keaton would return for something that's not going to be worthwhile.
I read this really good article on ScreenRant - of all places - about WB's negative PR involving Ray Fisher and ZSJL, and how it could signal the likelihood of them mismanaging the multiverse, not just The Flash. All I can say is WB forcing Snyder to cut Green Lantern out goes against their promotion of the multiverse at last year's DC FanDome, where directors are supposed to be given the freedom to tell their stories without being chained to a single continuity.
https://screenrant.com/dceu-multiverse-warner-bros-decisions-cheap-plot-device/
This was taken at Knebworth House...in 2021!
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E0PJoO8XMAAoPHC?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E0PW-b-VcAAm2rQ?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E0PW-4uVEAM35VD?format=jpg&name=medium)
Quote from: KeatonisBatman on Wed, 21 Apr 2021, 06:00
That just made my decade. You know, in my senior yearbook way back in 97 (*cough cough*) I said it was my ambition to make it through university with good grades, figure out what I want to do in life, and see Michael Keaton don the bat-suit one more time. So, I'm prettttttty sure you guys have me to thank for speaking this into existence nearly 25 years ago. Wink wink, nudge nudge. ha!
(https://i.gifer.com/5nbq.gif)
GK is posting all kinds of goodies these days. Knebworth coming back was possible given production being in the UK. But it's so good to know it's happening. We have no idea what they're planning but a gravestone outside that reads ALFRED PENNYWORTH would be a nice touch. Let's go guys. Let's go, let's go, let's go.
According to this report, this is actually Burghley House, not Knebworth House.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/arts-and-culture/film-and-tv/hollywood-swoops-into-town-as-batman-goes-to-burghley-3219665%3famp
Most reports say this is for The Flash, but I did see another report saying this is for the reboot. Meh.
Doesnt look like it (though I hope they use the interiors for consitancy.
Id does look like a decent mix of 89 and the Returns model
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/7e/5a/69/7e5a69b1485ea907c30ce8eda42dd77a.jpg)(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0d/3a/dd/0d3adda99e456f9ec26fcf1101bcce6f.jpg)
Never realized how detailed the old Batcave playsets were to the 89 mantion! Thats kind of crazy
It looks very similar, enough for people to think it was Knebworth. I did some digging and found out Knebworth needs more than 70,000 pounds worth of emergency repairs to fix serious cracking. That was reported in March 2021.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 1 May 2021, 23:02
It looks very similar, enough for people to think it was Knebworth. I did some digging and found out Knebworth needs more than 70,000 pounds worth of emergency repairs to fix serious cracking. That was reported in March 2021.
Good find.
I think we can safely say this isn't a cameo, right?
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Sun, 2 May 2021, 00:56
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 1 May 2021, 23:02
It looks very similar, enough for people to think it was Knebworth. I did some digging and found out Knebworth needs more than 70,000 pounds worth of emergency repairs to fix serious cracking. That was reported in March 2021.
Good find.
I think we can safely say this isn't a cameo, right?
Barry frequently conversed with Thomas Wayne in the comic storyline. Keaton is substituting him in the movie. The exterior shots could be minimal, but what better place to plan their moves than inside Wayne Manor and the batcave?
There are a number of ways to interpret this location photography:
• This could be the new Burtonverse Wayne Manor.
• WB might still use Knebworth House for the exteriors while using this house for some of the interiors (Knebworth was used for the exteriors in the 1989 film, but the interiors were shot at Hatfield House in the same county).
• They might be shooting interiors for Affleck's renovated stately Wayne Manor.
• This could be the new stately Wayne Manor that is formed when the DCEU and Burtonverse versions merge at the end of the film.
I don't mind if it is a new stately Wayne Manor, since Burton already changed its appearance for Batman Returns. But I also wouldn't be surprised if Muschietti ended up keeping Knebworth for the exterior shots. Or maybe this is the new exterior and he'll return to Hatfield House for the interiors.
Here's a roundup of some unsubstantiated rumours I've seen online lately. Take these with a pinch of salt.
The first is that at least one other Batman will appear in the movie besides Keaton and Affleck. According to hearsay, his role will be smaller than the other two Batmen and will probably amount to a brief cameo when the Flash is travelling between realities. Some fans are speculating that it'll be either Clooney or Bale, since Kilmer's health might prevent him from doing it. It seems more likely to me that it would be Pattinson.
Another rumour, courtesy of Jett from BoF, is that Keaton will wear a version of the Kingdom Come armour at some point in the film. Fans have speculated that this might happen ever since Keaton's return was first floated, but now Jett is saying he's heard from an inside source that it's on the cards. The official concept art shows Keaton in the 89 suit, so presumably if he does wear the mech armour it'll only be for one scene. Perhaps he'll use it in the final battle instead of a new vehicle?
Or perhaps neither of these rumours is true.
I don't think we'll see any footage from the film until DC FanDome 2021 at the earliest, which is in October. However we might get a picture of Keaton in the costume before then.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun, 2 May 2021, 15:37
The first is that at least one other Batman will appear in the movie besides Keaton and Affleck. According to hearsay, his role will be smaller than the other two Batmen and will probably amount to a brief cameo when the Flash is travelling between realities. Some fans are speculating that it'll be either Clooney or Bale, since Kilmer's health might prevent him from doing it. It seems more likely to me that it would be Pattinson.
Pattinson makes the most sense. I hate Doctor Who now but the 50th Anniversary special had two returning Doctors (10 and 11) with a very brief cameo of 12, who at that point had yet to appear. Something similar would be okay here.
Quote from: The Joker on Fri, 30 Apr 2021, 19:22
Quote from: KeatonisBatman on Wed, 21 Apr 2021, 06:00
That just made my decade. You know, in my senior yearbook way back in 97 (*cough cough*) I said it was my ambition to make it through university with good grades, figure out what I want to do in life, and see Michael Keaton don the bat-suit one more time. So, I'm prettttttty sure you guys have me to thank for speaking this into existence nearly 25 years ago. Wink wink, nudge nudge. ha!
(https://i.gifer.com/5nbq.gif)
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1229/7456/articles/beard-nod-gif_700x.gif?v=1529437820)
I've heard through the grapevine that (supposedly) the batmoblie will coming around this location in the next couple of days.
Filming has commenced at Burghley House. Smoke was observed.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E0ykCdUXEAMWJ8T?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E0ykC3oXIAALy1w?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E0ykDJYWEAM84yb?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E0ykDk9WQAAqlzq?format=jpg&name=large)
It is being reported that the Flash will be filming in Scotland in June. It is also being mentioned by sources that Glasgow and Edinburgh are being used for Gotham City.. specifically what I'll call Earth-89's Gotham, and their primary purpose is for flashback scenes. Very intriguing.
Another tidbit that I've been hearing is that Keaton was almost certainly lying about being uncertain whether he'd be able to 'find the time to do it' or not. His level of involvement would necessitate it being finalized months in advance and that his participation was by no means a last minute situation. Could not have been it seems because I've now heard it reiterated that this is a 'team up movie' and Keaton's Batman is the second lead of the film.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Mon, 10 May 2021, 01:19
It is being reported that the Flash will be filming in Scotland in June. It is also being mentioned by sources that Glasgow and Edinburgh are being used for Gotham City.. specifically what I'll call Earth-89's Gotham, and their primary purpose is for flashback scenes. Very intriguing.
Very. Makes me wonder if de-ageing technology will be used to show Keaton's Batman in his prime.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Mon, 10 May 2021, 19:51
Could not have been it seems because I've now heard it reiterated that this is a 'team up movie' and Keaton's Batman is the second lead of the film.
Affleck opening and ending the film is how I'd approach it, with Keaton getting the screen time in between.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1392164044912709633
Video of the 'Wayne Manor.'
Video on the Burghley House. If they use it for interiors I think it could fit in quite well. It does feel a little grander than the Hatfield House
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s866sxj0-1s
Speaking of Hatfield House, here is a video tour of that (featuring some rooms used in 89). Never notice the display table in the library but it's there in the film :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaO39-SGJv4
Barbara Muschietti posted this photo on Instagram.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E11icl4X0AIEg5Z?format=png&name=small)
But, which Bruce Wayne, I wonder?
Also, it should be noted that the unveiling of Adil El Arbi and Bilall Fallah as the directors of Batgirl has resurrected the rumor that the DCEU is getting at least partially reset and that Keaton is essentially a 'post crisis' Batman who will costar in the Batgirl movie.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Thu, 20 May 2021, 15:37
Also, it should be noted that the unveiling of Adil El Arbi and Bilall Fallah as the directors of Batgirl has resurrected the rumor that the DCEU is getting at least partially reset and that Keaton is essentially a 'post crisis' Batman who will costar in the Batgirl movie.
fml
''Batgirl' movie director, Adil El Arbi has shared "Childhood Remembered," a track from 1989's 'Batman' on his Instagram.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Thu, 20 May 2021, 15:37
Also, it should be noted that the unveiling of Adil El Arbi and Bilall Fallah as the directors of Batgirl has resurrected the rumor that the DCEU is getting at least partially reset and that Keaton is essentially a 'post crisis' Batman who will costar in the Batgirl movie.
I'm on board with the movie if Keaton is - if they cast a hardbody as Batgirl I'm really on board. I'd like to be proven wrong but I'm not expecting to be. I've been eager to see Bruce as a mentor for a long while in any case. The fact it's Keaton serving that function is an added bonus.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E3Ct2DOXwAAH3pe?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Welp.
Big thing I noticed here was the Returns look of it and the very NOT rubber feeling. Seems like armor. I'm shocked that it looks like a direct evolution of Returns. Very happy.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Fri, 4 Jun 2021, 13:56
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E3Ct2DOXwAAH3pe?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Welp.
Big thing I noticed here was the Returns look of it and the very NOT rubber feeling. Seems like armor. I'm shocked that it looks like a direct evolution of Returns. Very happy.
(https://ahseeit.com/meme-templates/king-include/uploads/2020/10/121135004_667644147516619_5170992311525198910_n-190849628.jpg)
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 4 Jun 2021, 14:49(https://ahseeit.com/meme-templates/king-include/uploads/2020/10/121135004_667644147516619_5170992311525198910_n-190849628.jpg)
The most interesting thing about it is where the cowl/cape starts or is supposed to start. Looks like solid armor that is approximating the cape area around the emblem to retain the Burton aesthetic. Getting a TDK but Burton armor feeling. Oh and LOL
Oh....my...god. Yes!
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Fri, 4 Jun 2021, 13:56
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E3Ct2DOXwAAH3pe?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Welp.
Big thing I noticed here was the Returns look of it and the very NOT rubber feeling. Seems like armor. I'm shocked that it looks like a direct evolution of Returns. Very happy.
(https://i.imgur.com/UStU9Hf.gif)
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Fri, 4 Jun 2021, 14:59
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 4 Jun 2021, 14:49(https://ahseeit.com/meme-templates/king-include/uploads/2020/10/121135004_667644147516619_5170992311525198910_n-190849628.jpg)
The most interesting thing about it is where the cowl/cape starts or is supposed to start. Looks like solid armor that is approximating the cape area around the emblem to retain the Burton aesthetic. Getting a TDK but Burton armor feeling.
Perhaps this is the Kingdom Come armour he's rumoured to wear at some point in the film. Or is it his regular suit?
Either way, I hope that's blood and not raspberry syrup. Keaton's Batman always ends up a bit bloodied by the end of the movie.
(https://i.postimg.cc/rFjxm1nn/bat-blood.png)
Even though I'm assuming the suit will differ, I like that they used the Returns logo.
Between Keaton's return, the comic series coming out next month, and all the recent merch it's a great time to be a Burton Batman fan. Hopefully when The Flash releases we can finally get some new Keaton Batman apparel!
That's still my favorite version of the Batman emblem so I'm glad they're using it. I agree the suit itself looks more like armor, which we predicted would be worn at some point.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Fri, 4 Jun 2021, 13:56
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E3Ct2DOXwAAH3pe?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Rather than go back to a more 1989 bat-suit, it looks like Keaton's Batman continued to modify the 1992 Returns suit to what we see here.
Works for me.
Quote from: BatmanFurst on Fri, 4 Jun 2021, 16:20
Even though I'm assuming the suit will differ, I like that they used the Returns logo.
Between Keaton's return, the comic series coming out next month, and all the recent merch it's a great time to be a Burton Batman fan. Hopefully when The Flash releases we can finally get some new Keaton Batman apparel!
As much as I'm pleased to see the nods to the BR Batsuit, all this focus on Keaton's Batman so far makes me convinced he was brought in not only to capitalise on the nostalgia hype, but they don't think Ezra Miller can carry a film on his own. I would've said that's fair, if WB didn't have a notorious reputation of studio meddling and blatant sabotage of their own productions.
For example, one of the VFX supervisors who worked on JL - who is also working on this film - said the entire third act was reshot because the studio didn't understand how Barry could turn back time and thought audiences wouldn't get it either. Not only that turned out flat-out wrong with the release of ZSJL, but now we're supposed to trust the studio on how this Flash movie explores the multiverse and time travel? Yeah, right.
Honestly, the upcoming comics run is the only Burton-related media I'm looking forward to, at the moment. Until there are big changes at WB Pictures, I don't plan to give them any more money any time soon. Hopefully this new merger with Discovery results in good things.
The yellow oval seems to be back after a 26 year absence from feature film.
Honestly, that scores a lot of points with me right there.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 5 Jun 2021, 01:43
Quote from: BatmanFurst on Fri, 4 Jun 2021, 16:20
Even though I'm assuming the suit will differ, I like that they used the Returns logo.
Between Keaton's return, the comic series coming out next month, and all the recent merch it's a great time to be a Burton Batman fan. Hopefully when The Flash releases we can finally get some new Keaton Batman apparel!
As much as I'm pleased to see the nods to the BR Batsuit, all this focus on Keaton's Batman so far makes me convinced he was brought in not only to capitalise on the nostalgia hype, but they don't think Ezra Miller can carry a film on his own. I would've said that's fair, if WB didn't have a notorious reputation of studio meddling and blatant sabotage of their own productions.
For example, one of the VFX supervisors who worked on JL - who is also working on this film - said the entire third act was reshot because the studio didn't understand how Barry could turn back time and thought audiences wouldn't get it either. Not only that turned out flat-out wrong with the release of ZSJL, but now we're supposed to trust the studio on how this Flash movie explores the multiverse and time travel? Yeah, right.
Honestly, the upcoming comics run is the only Burton-related media I'm looking forward to, at the moment. Until there are big changes at WB Pictures, I don't plan to give them any more money any time soon. Hopefully this new merger with Discovery results in good things.
I don't think I would've seen this movie is Keaton's Batman wasn't in it.
Quote from: BatmanFurst on Sat, 5 Jun 2021, 19:53
I don't think I would've seen this movie is Keaton's Batman wasn't in it.
I totally understand. It is exciting that Keaton is making his return after all these years. Even more so when the vast majority of us fans didn't believe he'd ever come back. I'll go far to say the comics renaissance would not be happening if he didn't sign on for The Flash. But as I as said before, I just don't trust WB Pictures with the misconduct and meddling going on behind the scenes.
I see some blogs are comparing Keaton's bloodied bat insignia to the Comedian's Smiley badge in Watchmen.
(https://static0.srcdn.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Watchmen-smiley-batman-The-flash.jpg)
Personally, I wouldn't read too much into it.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 20 May 2021, 18:39
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Thu, 20 May 2021, 15:37
Also, it should be noted that the unveiling of Adil El Arbi and Bilall Fallah as the directors of Batgirl has resurrected the rumor that the DCEU is getting at least partially reset and that Keaton is essentially a 'post crisis' Batman who will costar in the Batgirl movie.
fml
Batgirl is a film that's expected to go straight to streaming.
Quote
The most expensive DC movies (up to four a year, starting in 2022) are designed for release in theaters, Mr. Hamada said. Additional superhero films (two annually is the goal, perhaps focused on riskier characters like Batgirl and Static Shock) will arrive exclusively on HBO Max, the fledgling streaming service owned by WarnerMedia.
https://web.archive.org/web/20210609155644/https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/27/business/media/dc-superheroes-movies.html
Quote
Warner Bros. has mid-budget DC movies on the way for streaming, "Batgirl" and "Blue Beetle."
https://web.archive.org/web/20210610002030/https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2021-06-08/can-warner-bros-keep-movie-dreams-alive
I'm not enthused about any of the upcoming DC film prospects, but I don't see how Batgirl is any more of a risk than making a black Superman movie for theaters. Especially if Keaton is co-starring.
It goes to show how Toxic WB's perspective is skewed. They'll insist on making a race-swapped Superman reboot to deflect any allegations of racism and discrimination and make hollow PR statements promoting diversity and equality. Yet, they think Batgirl and Jaime Reyes Blue Beetle is too risky for theaters. How laughable.
What's even more laughable is the LA Times article in the second link I posted is nothing more than a puff piece for under fire executives.
Quote
But as the $43-billion Discovery merger ambles toward regulatory approval next year, Warner Bros.' risky release strategy, internally dubbed "Project Popcorn," appears to be working. Movies such as "Godzilla vs. Kong" and "The Conjuring: The Devil Made Me Do It" have done better than expected at the box office and brought millions of subscribers to HBO Max, according to executives.
"I'm both happy and relieved, because it has ultimately played out almost exactly as we hoped it would," said Carolyn Blackwood, chief operating officer of Warner Bros. Pictures Group. "We've got filmmakers and talent who are now happy, we've got exhibitors that are happy, we've got audiences that are happy, and our partners at HBO Max are thrilled."
Give us a goddamn break, Carolyn. You and Emmerich are not fooling anyone:
Quote
It's been a challenging several months for Warners, particularly for Emmerich. As THR previously reported, Emmerich — along with COO Carolyn Blackwood — was a key player in Warners' surprise December move to put the studio's entire 2021 slate of films on the HBO Max streaming service the same day they open in theaters. The studio faced backlash — including rebukes from directors Christopher Nolan and Denis Villeneuve. Sources say Warners wrote big checks to some of those who had movies affected by the decision, such as Denzel Washington and Keanu Reeves. For some talent reps, resentment lingers. One agent with important movie clients says that when he challenged Emmerich about the move, "His answer was, 'Are we supposed to have called above-the-line people from 17 movies?' The answer is yes."
In explaining its decision, the company said its analysis was that theaters could not open meaningfully before the end of 2021. Not even two weeks later, the first vaccine shipments went out in the U.S. In April, WarnerMedia CEO Jason Kilar told Recode's Peter Kafka that certain 2022 movies will have an exclusive theatrical window and Cineworld said the studio had struck a deal to show certain films exclusively in theaters for 45 days before streaming, though the terms of that agreement are not clear.
Calling the episode "bumpy," Kilar said, "If I had the chance to do it over again, I think it's very fair to say that we would have taken a couple more days to see if we could have had even more conversations than we were able to have." (It is not clear that the studio had conversations with any of its creative partners.)
Warner Bros. higher-ups are also concerned about the performance of the studio's critically important DC movies. Warners had also faced negative publicity from the studio's response to Joss Whedon's alleged abusive behavior on the set of Justice League. Stars including Ray Fisher, Gal Gadot and Jason Momoa have said publicly that there were issues during Whedon's tenure on the film, which he finished after Zack Snyder left the production.
The March release of the Snyder version (at a cost of at least $70 million) renewed attention to the claims, with Fisher, who played Cyborg in the film, continuing to allege abusive, racist conduct on the project and accusing the studio of not seriously investigating his claims (which WarnerMedia fiercely denies).
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/toby-emmerich-floated-for-a-new-job-1234947641/
I truly don't know what an ideal outcome even looks like here. WB is getting woke and so they will most probably go broke. Sometimes wokeness pays off but it's pretty rare.
I can't get my head around the Discovery acquisition. AT&T was already bathing in red ink before. Maybe there's an angle here I'm just missing. There probably is. It's not like I'm Mr. Bigshot Business Guy or something.
Snyder alluded to a possible gamechanger with the Discovery deal. Either way tho, a Discovery-buyout won't help much until after it's been approved.
I just don't get it. Any of it.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 13 Jun 2021, 05:56
I truly don't know what an ideal outcome even looks like here. WB is getting woke and so they will most probably go broke. Sometimes wokeness pays off but it's pretty rare.
When it comes to Superman, they're getting woke to just cover their asses after their JL-related controversies. For that reason alone, they will go broke.
I've read many comments on social media complaining about Toxic WB's lack of faith in their diversity characters appearing on the big screen. One fan said they hope this doesn't mean the new Supergirl debuting in The Flash will go straight to HBO Max. Toxic WB is so bad at PR to the point they clearly don't care. Which is why you can't take anything they say seriously.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 13 Jun 2021, 05:56
I can't get my head around the Discovery acquisition. AT&T was already bathing in red ink before. Maybe there's an angle here I'm just missing. There probably is. It's not like I'm Mr. Bigshot Business Guy or something.
Snyder alluded to a possible gamechanger with the Discovery deal. Either way tho, a Discovery-buyout won't help much until after it's been approved.
I just don't get it. Any of it.
The merger was announced, but it will take a year to finalise. All I know is the problems at WB are becoming bigger than the Snyderverse.
While I do think the same day releases on HBO Max was a good idea under the circumstances relating to the pandemic, Emmerich and Blackwood thinking they could get away with announcing such a radical plan without even consulting anyone involved with these productions is an extremely bad look. Emmerich allegedly getting exasperated at the idea of needing to inform people about his decision goes to show how arrogant and clueless he is. There was even talk that Legendary Pictures even considered taking legal action against WB because they were at risk of losing money they heavily produced on Godzilla vs Kong and Dune. WB can say GvK was a huge success in theaters and on streaming all they want, but I have no doubt money was still lost because of the pandemic situation, and they would've had to write a huge check to compensate Legendary.
The Discovery CEO mentioned his agenda to rebuild relationships with creators, but let's see if he puts his money where his mouth is. If positive change comes at WB, let's hope the Snyderverse is involved too.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Mon, 14 Jun 2021, 03:24Emmerich allegedly getting exasperated at the idea of needing to inform people about his decision goes to show how arrogant and clueless he is.
Emmerich rly should've known better. Any idiot can tell you that Hollywood is all about ego. The minute some clown starts making these gigantic decisions that affect A-list talents' livelihoods and perceptions of their work, he should expect some major league blowback.
I have a lot of respect for Christopher Nolan as a filmmaker. He's got a lot of credibility with me. But at the end of the day, he's just another Hollywood mogul with an ego. I like him. But he has a huge ego the same as anybody else in that town. Nolan was simply the guy who could get away with publicly firing shots at WB. Make no mistake about it, tons of other WB darlings in more vulnerable positions were ALL saying the same thing in private because they didn't dare speak up publicly.
If Emmerich didn't expect that or if those stories about him getting snippy about people pushing back on his galaxy-brained ideas are true, that's a pretty big sign of immaturity on his part. If his head had been in the game, he would've contacted the heavy hitters' various agents and managers, explained that Dune (or whatever) was going to HBO Max, the reasons why, thrown someone else under the bus and promised to make it up to EVERYBODY later on, he MIGHT have mitigated at least some of the vitriol.
It would've been easy to do too. "Hey, my orders are coming from up top. I mean, the VERY top. AT&T is strong-arming us into doing this. But you know how much we love Denis. We have a great partnership with Denis! And we'll find a way to make this right together. We just need to stick together on this."
There's very little coming from WB nowadays that isn't one bungled decision after another.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Mon, 14 Jun 2021, 03:24There was even talk that Legendary Pictures even considered taking legal action against WB because they were at risk of losing money they heavily produced on Godzilla vs Kong and Dune. WB can say GvK was a huge success in theaters and on streaming all they want, but I have no doubt money was still lost because of the pandemic situation, and they would've had to write a huge check to compensate Legendary.
Maybe I'm wrong. But I put that stuff down to bluster on Legendary's part. There's just no way that WB's partnership(s) with Legendary include some type of force majeure clause precisely for these kinds of unforeseeable events.
Maybe I'm wrong tho, like I say.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Mon, 14 Jun 2021, 03:24The Discovery CEO mentioned his agenda to rebuild relationships with creators, but let's see if he puts his money where his mouth is. If positive change comes at WB, let's hope the Snyderverse is involved too.
I reassert that there could be an angle here that I'm missing with the Discovery buyout. But Zaslav does prioritize building fanbases and giving consumers what they say they want. The "unscripted", reality TV world is pretty competitive but he's been able to carve out a niche there. Which is not small potatoes. His remarks about building bridges with The Talent are also revealing. Because, to hear Snyder tell it, he doesn't think there's much of a bridge between him and WB, which up to now has been his home base. Ditto Nolan, ditto Vilaneuve, etc.
Bringing Zaslav into the WB/AT&T fold makes perfect sense to me. But the most I can figure for buying out Discovery is their vast repertoire of media brands and back catalog of content is meant to be grist for HBO Max. Zaslav was one of the key players behind Discovery+, their streaming service. He's got experience making that stuff work. So, if the buyout goes through, I wouldn't be shocked if Discovery+ gets mothballed, its content folded into the larger WB media empire and Discovery+'s subscribers all migrated over to HBO Max. That's a good value proposition for a lot of Discover+ subscribers, I'd imagine. It gives those subscribers more content at probably a similar price.
Anything more than that, I have no idea. The above is literally the only explanation I can come up with. But like I say, AT&T works in the world of business. So, even if I'm wrong, I still have to believe there's some kind of play they're going for here that I just haven't figured out yet.
I was just listening to the song 'Berserker' from Gunship and Tyler Bates, which is part of DC's Dark Nights: Death Metal soundtrack to tie in with the comic book miniseries by Scott Snyder and Greg Capullo, and I was thinking that it might make an appropriate addition to The Flash (2022) soundtrack. Certain themes from the Flashpoint storyline – the warping of reality, metamorphosis and the apocalyptic death and rebirth of a universe – are suggested in the lyrics. The eighties synthwave influence is appropriate for the return of the eighties movie Batman, and the grungy tone is well suited to both Keaton and Affleck's versions of the Dark Knight. Since the song was specifically written for the DC universe anyway, why not use it in the new movie?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAoF3wfOqjo
'Scandalous' played over the B89 end credits. 'Face to Face' played over the BR end credits. 'Berserker' could play over the end credits of The Flash.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Fri, 18 Jun 2021, 12:36
I was just listening to the song 'Berserker' from Gunship and Tyler Bates, which is part of DC's Dark Nights: Death Metal soundtrack to tie in with the comic book miniseries by Scott Snyder and Greg Capullo, and I was thinking that it might make an appropriate addition to The Flash (2022) soundtrack. Certain themes from the Flashpoint storyline – the warping of reality, metamorphosis and the apocalyptic death and rebirth of a universe – are suggested in the lyrics. The eighties synthwave influence is appropriate for the return of the eighties movie Batman, and the grungy tone is well suited to both Keaton and Affleck's versions of the Dark Knight. Since the song was specifically written for the DC universe anyway, why not use it in the new movie?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAoF3wfOqjo
'Scandalous' played over the B89 end credits. 'Face to Face' played over the BR end credits. 'Berserker' could play over the end credits of The Flash.
I really loved this one and I have to admit it really fits an end credits post script. It also feels very in line with what might have been the next Keaton installment. You mention the 80s influences and it's funny because despite that being obviously true about the track it struck me as suck a late 90s/early 2000s vibe.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Fri, 18 Jun 2021, 13:54
You mention the 80s influences and it's funny because despite that being obviously true about the track it struck me as suck a late 90s/early 2000s vibe.
That mixture of different musical styles and eras – eighties synth, late nineties/early noughties metal, contemporary retrowave – is another reason it's perfect for The Flash, which is a movie about mixing different cinematic universes created in different decades. I miss the days when Batman movies had memorable songs on the end credits, and this song is perfect for the harsh gothic melancholy tone of the Keaton Batman. It sounds new and yet strangely nostalgic at the same time, which is the same feeling I get when I look at the following picture.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E3CuRR-WYAYPTJP?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Fri, 18 Jun 2021, 14:45
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Fri, 18 Jun 2021, 13:54
You mention the 80s influences and it's funny because despite that being obviously true about the track it struck me as suck a late 90s/early 2000s vibe.
That mixture of different musical styles and eras – eighties synth, late nineties/early noughties metal, contemporary retrowave – is another reason it's perfect for The Flash, which is a movie about mixing different cinematic universes created in different decades. I miss the days when Batman movies had memorable songs on the end credits, and this song is perfect for the harsh gothic melancholy tone of the Keaton Batman. It sounds new and yet strangely nostalgic at the same time, which is the same feeling I get when I look at the following picture.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E3CuRR-WYAYPTJP?format=jpg&name=900x900)
I agree. I've also listened to a bunch of the tracks on this album and I'm smitten wit it. Wow! Thank you!
Andy Muschietti has posted a preview of Supergirl's costume.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4L76FlXIAUkPE7?format=jpg&name=medium)
It looks like they're taking some visual cues from the Lara Lane-Kent Supergirl that appeared in Injustice: Gods Among Us Year Three.
(https://i.postimg.cc/RhR912zs/supergirl.png)
Actress Sasha Calle recently cut her dark hair short, which adds further fuel to this theory.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E2AvDQdXsAMgMmz?format=jpg&name=medium)
The Lara Lane-Kent Supergirl was the child of Lois and Clark from an alternate reality. Considering the 'Knightmare' reality is heavily influenced by Injustice, I'm now wondering if Calle's Supergirl might be the future daughter of Cavill's Superman and Adams' Lois Lane. The texturing and chest emblem on her costume are consistent with Cavill's, and we know the plot of The Flash is going to involve Barry travelling across multiple realities spanning the Multiverse. Alternatively, this Supergirl might simply be Superman's replacement in the rebooted DCEU that this movie is intended to launch.
Earlier reports indicated that the production would be moving to Scotland for the Gotham City scenes in late June. We're entering late June now, so there's a good chance we'll be seeing some location pics of the Burtonverse Batman, or at least the Burtonverse Gotham City, any day now. :)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4RQv6BXEAAQc3F?format=jpg&name=360x360)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4RQv6AWYAgqLr1?format=jpg&name=medium)
Video: https://twitter.com/i/status/1406319900470116355
Bruce Mobile and set stuff:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4Q4kjaVgAAGYZH?format=jpg&name=900x900)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4Q4k-0UcAMn5mt?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4Q4lVEVoAELfZ1?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4Qw3emVkAMYIZo?format=jpg&name=small)
Keaton and Miller in London:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4Sz8YtXEAQ77Rp?format=jpg&name=900x900)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4Sz8gpXoAANCgU?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Here are some more pics of Keaton on location.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4TKZjRWQAIt1Q6?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4TKZjaXoAMCil6?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4TKZjmX0AgP1og?format=jpg&name=900x900)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4TKZkZXIAMbtYh?format=jpg&name=900x900)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4VvaIIWYA8skFC?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4VvaIJWEAc4uok?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4VvaIJX0AMu0Gn?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4VqdXlXIAsX5bg?format=jpg&name=medium)
As in his earlier Batman films, Keaton appears to be wearing a hairpiece. I expected he would.
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/06/20/17/44458661-9706087-image-a-625_1624205796726.jpg)
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/06/20/17/44457805-9706087-First_look_The_Flash_stars_Sasha_Calle_Ezra_Miller_and_Michael_K-m-624_1624205792219.jpg)
This Mercedes is thought to be his new civilian car.
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/06/20/16/44457821-9706087-image-m-612_1624204574169.jpg)
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/06/20/16/44457829-9706087-image-m-584_1624204313242.jpg)
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/06/20/17/44457825-9706087-London_Cast_and_crew_lined_the_capital_s_streets-a-618_1624205771703.jpg)
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun, 20 Jun 2021, 17:19
As in his earlier Batman films, Keaton appears to be wearing a hairpiece. I expected he would.
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/06/20/17/44458661-9706087-image-a-625_1624205796726.jpg)
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/06/20/17/44457805-9706087-First_look_The_Flash_stars_Sasha_Calle_Ezra_Miller_and_Michael_K-m-624_1624205792219.jpg)
This Mercedes is thought to be his new civilian car.
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/06/20/16/44457821-9706087-image-m-612_1624204574169.jpg)
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/06/20/16/44457829-9706087-image-m-584_1624204313242.jpg)
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/06/20/17/44457825-9706087-London_Cast_and_crew_lined_the_capital_s_streets-a-618_1624205771703.jpg)
Love that they didn't over do the hairline. Also...AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
One thing that saddens me about this is Michael Gough's death. I mean, even if he was still alive today, he'd still probably in no condition to work anymore, esp not in the immediate aftermath of the coof. But it's still sad that he can't be part of this production in any capacity whatsoever.
Also worth noting that the scoopers are calling this a scene from the end of the movie.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4Vxi8gWEAkKjsU?format=jpg&name=900x900)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4V466AWEAUUH8g?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4V463OXoAQoq39?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4V4eUjWUAIYc7L?format=jpg&name=medium)
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 20 Jun 2021, 17:24
One thing that saddens me about this is Michael Gough's death. I mean, even if he was still alive today, he'd still probably in no condition to work anymore, esp not in the immediate aftermath of the coof. But it's still sad that he can't be part of this production in any capacity whatsoever.
I think they'll pay tribute to him somehow, most likely in the form of a portrait displayed in stately Wayne Manor.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Sun, 20 Jun 2021, 17:26
Also worth noting that the scoopers are calling this a scene from the end of the movie.
I suspected it might be. It looks like this scene is introducing the new Supergirl (who definitely looks more like the Lara Lane-Kent version than Kara) after the DC cinematic universe has been rebooted, with Keaton taking Affleck's place as the new Batman.
Bruce is clearly older here, but he might still be de-aged for the earlier scenes taking place in the Burtonverse. Alternatively this scene might take place in the Burtonverse and he might look like this throughout the entire movie. At any rate, he looks awesome. ;D
Last year, when Keaton's return was first touted, I posted my theory that he'd appear as the Burtonverse Batman (who may or may not be digitally de-aged), possibly die helping the Flash reboot the universe (as the Flashpoint Batman did in the original comic), then make a surprise return at the end of the movie when Barry goes to visit Batfleck and discovers that Keaton has replaced him as the Batman of this newly formed DCEU. For now I'm sticking with that theory, and if I'm right then this might not be the Burtonverse Bruce we're seeing in these pics, but rather the rebooted DCEU Batman that is reborn from the Burtonverse version (much like how the New Earth comic Batman was reborn from the Earth-One version). That would technically make this a new version of Bruce, even though he's still played by Keaton.
Whether or not this is a new Bruce or simply the Burtonverse version, there's one thing I want from him: Batman Beyond. I'm fine with him playing a Nick Fury role in any upcoming Justice League movies, and I'm fine with him playing a mentor role in the Batgirl film. But I still want a separate Batman Beyond movie, set in the future and not featuring any other superheroes, which can serve as a conclusion to the Burton trilogy. Ideally I'd like Burton himself involved, if only as a producer, with Elfman providing the music. I'm looking forward to seeing any future films featuring Bat-Keaton, but the Batman Beyond movie is a must for me.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun, 20 Jun 2021, 17:40
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 20 Jun 2021, 17:24
One thing that saddens me about this is Michael Gough's death. I mean, even if he was still alive today, he'd still probably in no condition to work anymore, esp not in the immediate aftermath of the coof. But it's still sad that he can't be part of this production in any capacity whatsoever.
I think they'll pay tribute to him somehow, most likely in the form of a portrait displayed in stately Wayne Manor.
Crap, if he was alive today, he'd be 104 years old!
Another thing people are noticing is a ring on Miller's index finger that might be where Barry keeps his suit. Big reference to Barry's first run in the silver age.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 20 Jun 2021, 17:24
One thing that saddens me about this is Michael Gough's death. I mean, even if he was still alive today, he'd still probably in no condition to work anymore, esp not in the immediate aftermath of the coof. But it's still sad that he can't be part of this production in any capacity whatsoever.
Honestly, not even his involvement could get me excited if he were still alive today. I've gotten rather sour over The Flash ever since the outrageous firing of Ray Fisher, and if it's true to the rumours that Keaton is replacing Affleck and they're rebooting DC on film then Warner Butchers can take this film and shove it.
I grew up with Keaton's Batman and he'll always be among my favourites. But there's no way I'm supporting The Flash if it's going to spit the Snyderverse in the face. I'm not accepting that. Not after aggrieved actors are punished for speaking out over issues with discrimination, and the constant disrespect towards Zack Snyder despite ZSJL's success.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 20 Jun 2021, 19:22
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun, 20 Jun 2021, 17:40
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 20 Jun 2021, 17:24
One thing that saddens me about this is Michael Gough's death. I mean, even if he was still alive today, he'd still probably in no condition to work anymore, esp not in the immediate aftermath of the coof. But it's still sad that he can't be part of this production in any capacity whatsoever.
I think they'll pay tribute to him somehow, most likely in the form of a portrait displayed in stately Wayne Manor.
Crap, if he was alive today, he'd be 104 years old!
Yeah, but that wouldn't have stopped him.
It's interesting to reflect on just how many different universes Michael Gough portrayed Alfred in. First and foremost, he was the Alfred of the Burtonverse.
(https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/keaton-gough-2011-a-l.jpg?w=681&h=383&crop=1)
He was also the Alfred of the Schumacherverse (the following image is from a deleted scene where Alfred and Bruce travel back in time to WWII).
(https://i.postimg.cc/CK2HZgHs/topsecret.jpg)
The Alfred of the OnStar universe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2KbxjRcjV0
The Alfred of the BBC radio universe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJIlMBRSJOg
And the Alfred of the Diet Cokeverse.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rm1qR2t_jms
Or is that last one just the Burtonverse on a slow crime day?
Back in the late nineties I met his ex-wife Anneke Wills at a Doctor Who convention. Wills played Polly in Doctor Who back in the sixties, while Gough himself appeared in Doctor Who during the sixties (The Celestial Toymaker) and eighties (The Ark of Infinity). Wills was very sweet and friendly when I met her. She was also an extremely attractive woman in her prime.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/1c/bf/68/1cbf6841afeafaf506256d4d295b50a1.jpg)
I've still got her autograph. Of course I didn't know at the time that she'd been married to Alfred, otherwise I might have asked her about him. Though in retrospect it's probably better that I didn't, considering certain allegations she's made about him... Still, by having met Wills I can connect myself to Gough through one degree of separation, and thereby to Keaton through two degrees. Sad though it may seem, I take pride in that.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Sun, 20 Jun 2021, 21:32
Another thing people are noticing is a ring on Miller's index finger that might be where Barry keeps his suit. Big reference to Barry's first run in the silver age.
That reinforces the idea of this scene taking place near the end of the movie, after Barry's acquired his new costume. I wonder if Keaton's the one who makes his new suit for him, and if so if he also creates the ring.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Sun, 20 Jun 2021, 17:26
Also worth noting that the scoopers are calling this a scene from the end of the movie.
I know this isn't a pure Batman movie, but ending things with Bruce driving away (as Alfred used to) and panning up to the skyscrapers would be an excellent choice.
I could have bought Keaton without a hairpiece given the time jump. But he looks good with one too, and it's consistent with the other films.
This video contains potential spoilers for The Flash and the ramifications for the Snyderverse.
https://youtu.be/xp8X6YLxffo
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun, 20 Jun 2021, 18:59
Last year, when Keaton's return was first touted, I posted my theory that he'd appear as the Burtonverse Batman (who may or may not be digitally de-aged), possibly die helping the Flash reboot the universe (as the Flashpoint Batman did in the original comic), then make a surprise return at the end of the movie when Barry goes to visit Batfleck and discovers that Keaton has replaced him as the Batman of this newly formed DCEU. For now I'm sticking with that theory, and if I'm right then this might not be the Burtonverse Bruce we're seeing in these pics, but rather the rebooted DCEU Batman that is reborn from the Burtonverse version (much like how the New Earth comic Batman was reborn from the Earth-One version). That would technically make this a new version of Bruce, even though he's still played by Keaton.
I strongly suspect this is accurate. There's 30 years worth of unseen adventures to play with before Barry enters the scene. I'd like the Keaton DCEU Batman to retain his knowledge and experience of prior events, and think that should be the whole point of having him here in the first place. His environment changes but he doesn't.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Mon, 21 Jun 2021, 04:12
I strongly suspect this is accurate. There's 30 years worth of unseen adventures to play with before Barry enters the scene. I'd like the Keaton DCEU Batman to retain his knowledge and experience of prior events, and think that should be the whole point of having him here in the first place. His environment changes but he doesn't.
That's how I look at it. It's like a cross-platform save data transfer in gaming. You buy a console, complete lots of games on it and earn lots of trophies, but then your system dies. A more powerful gaming console comes out, so you buy that and transfer the data from your old system over to its replacement. You still keep all your old achievements, and you can resume any of your old playthroughs at any time, only now you're playing on a brand new system, with new power capabilities and extra features that weren't available before.
The events of the Silver and Bronze Age comics were still considered canon in the Post-Crisis era unless a Modern Age story directly contradicted them. If Keaton is playing a rebooted Burtonverse Batman at the end of The Flash, then I expect a similar situation here. He could retain memories of everything the Burtonverse version went through and accomplished, and perhaps he'll even remember everything Batfleck went through (fighting Superman, battling Steppenwolf, forming the Justice League, etc). This newly rebooted Batman, if indeed that's what he is, might be a Keaton-shaped amalgamation of the Burtonverse and Snyderverse incarnations.
If this
is a rebooted DC universe, partly birthed from the remnants of the Burtonverse, then that also opens up some intriguing possibilities concerning past villains. For example, you could have Danny DeVito appear as an older version of the Penguin while still acknowledging the events of Batman Returns. He still ran for mayor, still tried to kill the firstborns, and still plummeted into a pool of industrial waste, only now he's been reborn as part of the wider rebirth of the DC universe. You could have a younger actor play the resurrected Nicholson Joker in Batman Beyond, attributing his change in appearance to the broader DCEU reboot while still acknowledging everything that happened in the 1989 film. There are a lot of interesting avenues they could explore with this premise.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun, 20 Jun 2021, 22:39
He was also the Alfred of the Schumacherverse (the following image is from a deleted scene where Alfred and Bruce travel back in time to WWII).
(https://i.postimg.cc/CK2HZgHs/topsecret.jpg)
Whaa?
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon, 21 Jun 2021, 12:57
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun, 20 Jun 2021, 22:39
He was also the Alfred of the Schumacherverse (the following image is from a deleted scene where Alfred and Bruce travel back in time to WWII).
(https://i.postimg.cc/CK2HZgHs/topsecret.jpg)
Whaa?
Schumacher shot that sequence to explain the origins of the Batcave. But in the end it was decided that having Alfred dig the entire cave complex using a teaspoon wasn't very plausible, so the scene was cut. A grave error in judgement, if you ask me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_C86o5dE_c
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Mon, 21 Jun 2021, 02:37
This video contains potential spoilers for The Flash and the ramifications for the Snyderverse.
https://youtu.be/xp8X6YLxffo
So if we're lead to believe what these guys are saying, this movie is branching off a new timeline with the incorporation of Keaton's Batman for theatrical continuity, but it doesn't mean Snyderverse is getting erased, just branched into a different part of the multiverse. Which means, according to what they've said in the past, it gives a chance to continue anything Snyder-related on streaming. But why would a studio that is "aggressively anti-Snyder", as the director himself describes, want to do that? Unless AT&T and Discovery are blocking any avenues for the film to do a complete reboot.
The bit that astonishes me is the claim that there might not be even a real villain in this. That Reverse-Flash is only going to be teased for a potential sequel, whereas the rest of the film is just about Barry Allen getting lost into this mess he created by saving his mother, hence the Flashpoint comparisons. If this is all true, it sounds ridiculous, in my opinion.
Last year, I was excited to hear about The Flash about exploring the DC multiverse, but not if it's going to replace one thing over the other, even if it's only for theatrical runs. If all of this crap that these guys are saying is true then it's going to be a clusterf***.
Yea, I'm taking a lot of things with a grain of salt considering all the misleading/wrong things about the Snyder cut. For me, we'll see what we get when we get there. I'm, at the very least, glad we got the real justice league.
Same with the Flash, there are already people trashing it, and I'm of the opinion that it may suck but even if it does, it won't ruin Keaton's Batman for me as I still got my 2 films for him and up until the Snydercut I couldn't stand his Flash.
I think the story (if true) sound pretty good. Seems concise, which I think is what we need right now.
Saw the on set pic of Keaton as Bruce. I think he looks pretty good. A wig was an obvious necessity but I'm glad they got one that matched his hair style from the Burton films.
If this is in fact his car, it does remind me of the one he drives in Beyond.
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/06/20/16/44457829-9706087-image-m-584_1624204313242.jpg)
(https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.mX3HDBxvEqL1nHtWYfW0ZwHaCB?pid=ImgDet&rs=1)
Edit:
People on the Superhero Hype forums thinking Bruce may have some scaring from Catwoman on his face. It's hard to tell if it's just the lighting but that would be a nice callback
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4VxjZHXoAcnBmb.jpg:large)
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Mon, 21 Jun 2021, 12:38
He could retain memories of everything the Burtonverse version went through and accomplished, and perhaps he'll even remember everything Batfleck went through (fighting Superman, battling Steppenwolf, forming the Justice League, etc). This newly rebooted Batman, if indeed that's what he is, might be a Keaton-shaped amalgamation of the Burtonverse and Snyderverse incarnations.
I like the idea it's 100% Burtonverse Bruce, but he comes up to speed with the DCEU goings on (which is essential given this is his world now) via research and conversation.
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Mon, 21 Jun 2021, 20:46
People on the Superhero Hype forums thinking Bruce may have some scaring from Catwoman on his face. It's hard to tell if it's just the lighting but that would be a nice callback
They may have a point there.
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Mon, 21 Jun 2021, 16:25
Yea, I'm taking a lot of things with a grain of salt considering all the misleading/wrong things about the Snyder cut. For me, we'll see what we get when we get there. I'm, at the very least, glad we got the real justice league.
Be that as it may, don't underestimate Warner Butchers and their meddling. They forced the removal of John Stewart from ZSJL for no reason out of spite, and they already compromised The Flash by removing Cyborg due to Fisher's dispute with key executives. It wouldn't surprise me if we hear more things getting cut because of their terrible decision-making, as we saw in ZSJL and heard about in the Ayer cut.
Quote
Same with the Flash, there are already people trashing it, and I'm of the opinion that it may suck but even if it does, it won't ruin Keaton's Batman for me as I still got my 2 films for him and up until the Snydercut I couldn't stand his Flash.
Agreed. I thought Miller was the weakest link in the entire JL cast, but ZSJL redeemed him a fair bit. The humour felt more natural rather than any of Whedon's stupid raunchy jokes, and the spectacular scene where he uses the Speed Force to rescue the League and the world during the climax further enhanced his character. To think there are some people out there who thought he was still better in Josstice L. ::)
Quote
People on the Superhero Hype forums thinking Bruce may have some scaring from Catwoman on his face. It's hard to tell if it's just the lighting but that would be a nice callback
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4VxjZHXoAcnBmb.jpg:large)
I don't think those are scars. They appear to be nothing more than aging skin blemishes. Plus, the scratches he had at the end of BR weren't quite as close to his cheek.
(https://i1.wp.com/caps.pictures/199/2-batman-returns/full/batman-returns-disneyscreencaps.com-13987.jpg)
Supergirl looks like she's wearing the same style of Snyderverse suit. I'm guessing that's intentional?
Quote from: Travesty on Tue, 22 Jun 2021, 14:57
Supergirl looks like she's wearing the same style of Snyderverse suit. I'm guessing that's intentional?
The S shield is nearly identical, but there are some noticeable differences. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the studio's way of trying to trick the fans into thinking the Snyderverse will be respected.
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Mon, 21 Jun 2021, 20:46
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4VxjZHXoAcnBmb.jpg:large)
There's my Batman!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VUnJzBiaqg
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Mon, 21 Jun 2021, 12:38
If this is a rebooted DC universe, partly birthed from the remnants of the Burtonverse, then that also opens up some intriguing possibilities concerning past villains. For example, you could have Danny DeVito appear as an older version of the Penguin while still acknowledging the events of Batman Returns. He still ran for mayor, still tried to kill the firstborns, and still plummeted into a pool of industrial waste, only now he's been reborn as part of the wider rebirth of the DC universe.
That could be interesting. I don't know. I have to think about this some more. The type of scenario kinda makes me think of the DCU's reboots with Joe Chill in a way. Pre-Crisis Earth-Two, and Earth-One Joe Chill gets killed in similar fashion. Post-Crisis he's reborn only to get off'ed by The Reaper. Post-Zero Hour DCU, it's retconned that Chill might not be the murderer of Bruce's parents, and the case never resolved. Post-Infinite Crisis, Joe's reinstated as the killer of the Wayne's, and possibly commits suicide. New52, Chill's confronted but not killed, and in Post-DC Rebirth, Joe Chill is dying of cancer and atones for his sins.
That's quite a bit of shifting around, but that's DC for ya.
Devito's Penguin indeed has his arc in Batman Returns, but being that playing somewhat fast and loose with prior continuity following Flashpoint is very likely going to happen, I can actually see Warners trying something like this.
QuoteYou could have a younger actor play the resurrected Nicholson Joker in Batman Beyond, attributing his change in appearance to the broader DCEU reboot while still acknowledging everything that happened in the 1989 film. There are a lot of interesting avenues they could explore with this premise.
Now this, THIS,
better be looked after with the upmost care. Whoever they get for the Joker, better recognize that he's not stepping into just any Joker role, but a
resurrected version of Jack Nicholson's iconic Joker! Not only do I want some of Jack's classic line's being reprised, but I want the guy to study Jack's mannerisms and personal eccentricities to where his performance is literally making me think of Jack Nicholson's Joker possessing someone's body, without Jack himself actually really being there.
Tall order? Sure, but that character, THAT Joker, being brought back demands a performance that'll make Jack himself smile.
Better respect the world's first fully functioning homicidal artist!
Quote from: The Joker on Wed, 23 Jun 2021, 03:43
There's my Batman!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VUnJzBiaqg
You just know he's going to say that line at some point in the movie. Either when he first meets Barry, or perhaps if he comes face to face with Batfleck. In the latter scenario, we might even get a fight between the two Batmen. Either way, Keaton's definitely saying the 'I'm Batman" line.
But will they throw in a fan service nod to his second most famous line?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sea6XR-KTlU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuP_6R8t8i8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFq7C0lmS-A
Quote from: The Joker on Wed, 23 Jun 2021, 05:25Now this, THIS, better be looked after with the upmost care. Whoever they get for the Joker, better recognize that he's not stepping into just any Joker role, but a resurrected version of Jack Nicholson's iconic Joker! Not only do I want some of Jack's classic line's being reprised, but I want the guy to study Jack's mannerisms and personal eccentricities to where his performance is literally making me think of Jack Nicholson's Joker possessing someone's body, without Jack himself actually really being there.
Tall order? Sure, but that character, THAT Joker, being brought back demands a performance that'll make Jack himself smile.
Better respect the world's first fully functioning homicidal artist!
The ideal situation would be if they could persuade Nicholson to come out of retirement and voice the Joker. Perhaps they could even use motion-cap technology to record his facial movements and then use deepfake software to map his likeness onto a younger, taller, skinnier actor. That would be terrifying.
Alternatively, if they go the Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker route, as some rumours have indicated they might, then they could just get whoever plays the adult Tim Drake (or whichever Robin they use) to imitate Nicholson's voice and mannerisms. But you're right – it would have to be a damn good actor to capture Nicholson's magic. Offhand, the only person I can think of who
might be up to the task is DiCaprio, only he probably wouldn't want to do it.
Regarding the new batsuit, while I don't think we'll be seeing any major footage until the next FanDome event in October, I do think there's a very real possibility that Muschietti might follow Matt Reeves' example by releasing an imagine of Keaton in the costume, and perhaps an image of the Batmobile as well, sometime over the new few weeks. Why? Because they're going to be filming the Gotham scenes in Scotland, where press photographers are bound to snap location pics like they did with Pattinson's stunt doubles. Those kind of images usually don't present a favourable first impression of costumes, and it would be in the filmmakers' best interests to pre-empt such leaks by releasing an official high-quality publicity shot first. If I'm right about this then Muschietti, or someone else connected with the film, will be posting a picture of Keaton in the costume much sooner than most people might expect.
On the rumour front, I'm hearing talk about Bat-Keaton's next appearance after The Flash being in the Batgirl movie. If this is so, then they might introduce Babs in The Flash along with the new Supergirl. If not, they should at least plant some Easter eggs to pave the way for her debut.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Mon, 21 Jun 2021, 02:37
This video contains potential spoilers for The Flash and the ramifications for the Snyderverse.
https://youtu.be/xp8X6YLxffo
I would recommend anyone who does not want the movie spoiled to avoid this video. I found a slightly more detailed account of the plot they're discussing and it seems legit. It's simple and concise enough to be a movie IE it lacks ludicrous amounts of fan service, which is the usual tell. If it is fanfiction, it's a good sell. If you wanna know, my DMs are open.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 23 Jun 2021, 14:21
The ideal situation would be if they could persuade Nicholson to come out of retirement and voice the Joker. Perhaps they could even use motion-cap technology to record his facial movements and then use deepfake software to map his likeness onto a younger, taller, skinnier actor. That would be terrifying.
Man, I
really like this idea. To further add to this proposed concept, I'm kinda 50/50 on giving the Joker milky white eyes (to a varying degree), as to further the overall effect of supernatural possession, and visually sell the notion that of a truly spectral Joker. Which would make him quite visually disturbing to look at, in any scene, and would perhaps be rather jarring when exhibiting Jack Nicholson Joker like behavior akin to his Batman 1989 scenes. Almost forcing the audience to feel conflicted for laughing at Nicholson's resurrected Joker's antics, considering what a walking horror show he looks like.
The idea basically stems from Batman Beyond Return of The Joker where certain scene(s) featuring the Joker, illustrated him with red eyes (in the shadows with the red eyes effect being particularly memorable). Which I thought made him appear just a bit more spookier than any time before, and sold that visual state of his atrocity of a resurrection.
On second thought, something like that would probably give kids nightmares, but this is where my mind goes. :D
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Thu, 24 Jun 2021, 15:47
I found a slightly more detailed account of the plot they're discussing and it seems legit. It's simple and concise enough to be a movie IE it lacks ludicrous amounts of fan service, which is the usual tell. If it is fanfiction, it's a good sell. If you wanna know, my DMs are open.
If such a plotline was proven to be legitimate I'd be pretty happy with the outcome overall. The first section of the supposed outline contains Keaton elements I posted about previously and still want. The resolution of the story would provide a counterpoint to that first act, and in terms of an ongoing mentor role that would be necessary.
Quote from: The Joker on Fri, 25 Jun 2021, 04:34Man, I really like this idea. To further add to this proposed concept, I'm kinda 50/50 on giving the Joker milky white eyes (to a varying degree), as to further the overall effect of supernatural possession, and visually sell the notion that of a truly spectral Joker. Which would make him quite visually disturbing to look at, in any scene, and would perhaps be rather jarring when exhibiting Jack Nicholson Joker like behavior akin to his Batman 1989 scenes. Almost forcing the audience to feel conflicted for laughing at Nicholson's resurrected Joker's antics, considering what a walking horror show he looks like.
The idea basically stems from Batman Beyond Return of The Joker where certain scene(s) featuring the Joker, illustrated him with red eyes (in the shadows with the red eyes effect being particularly memorable). Which I thought made him appear just a bit more spookier than any time before, and sold that visual state of his atrocity of a resurrection.
On second thought, something like that would probably give kids nightmares, but this is where my mind goes. :D
The creepier the better! And I agree that the possession should be supernatural. The whole thing about the microchip somehow physically and mentally transforming Drake into the Joker never made much sense to me in the original film, especially since the technology he used to do it was meant to have been created in the present day. In the case of the Burtonverse, they should go full Exorcist and have Jack Napier's ghost flat out possess someone. Kind of like Killer Bob in Twin Peaks.
The possessed party wouldn't realise what was happening to him. He'd just black out every now and then, and afterwards would have no recollection of what he'd been up to. But during those blackouts Napier's spirit would take control, and the host's physical appearance would be transformed accordingly. We've seen more realistic versions of the Joker with Ledger and Phoenix, so now let's see a fully demonic supernatural version conjured from the grave of Nicholson's iteration.
(https://cdna.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/016/434/724/large/steve-wagemans-jokernichq.jpg?1552152998)
Seriously, a live action remake of Return of the Joker has the potential to be one of the best Batman movies ever. The biggest obstacle in the past would have been getting Keaton on board, but now he's back WB can make it happen.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Mon, 28 Jun 2021, 15:08
The creepier the better! And I agree that the possession should be supernatural. The whole thing about the microchip somehow physically and mentally transforming Drake into the Joker never made much sense to me in the original film, especially since the technology he used to do it was meant to have been created in the present day. In the case of the Burtonverse, they should go full Exorcist and have Jack Napier's ghost flat out possess someone. Kind of like Killer Bob in Twin Peaks.
Indeed! Yeah, I would expect just
how Nicholson's Joker returns to vary a bit from the explanation we got in BBROTJ, which may be for the better to be perfectly honest. My first thought would be that his return is the result of something that perhaps the Jokerz gang intentionally, or inadvertently do, but admittedly that's inspired from the idea of a Freddy Krueger cult gang that was very
nearly in the "Freddy vs Jason" movie.
QuoteThe possessed party wouldn't realise what was happening to him. He'd just black out every now and then, and afterwards would have no recollection of what he'd been up to. But during those blackouts Napier's spirit would take control, and the host's physical appearance would be transformed accordingly. We've seen more realistic versions of the Joker with Ledger and Phoenix, so now let's see a fully demonic supernatural version conjured from the grave of Nicholson's iteration.
(https://cdna.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/016/434/724/large/steve-wagemans-jokernichq.jpg?1552152998)
Seriously, a live action remake of Return of the Joker has the potential to be one of the best Batman movies ever. The biggest obstacle in the past would have been getting Keaton on board, but now he's back WB can make it happen.
That's so true. The overall aesthetic of a supernatural Nicholson/Napier Joker would greatly contrast him with the more 'realistic' interpretations of Ledger and Phoenix. I would also imagine that given a resurrected Napier Joker would be a bit more "edgy" than before, naturally, some people's perception of him would change. Thus making Nicholson's Joker a rather unique and multifaceted incarnation of the character in live action for sure.
What appealed to me with Batman Beyond was the fact it was a far flung future so different from the BTAS world we had become accustomed to. Apart from an older Michael Keaton, I imagine a Beyond inspired movie would more or less aesthetically resemble the current day, and would be set in the current day. What type of societal status quo would they be willing to depict?
Dystopian literature interests me greatly in how it accurately mirrors the modern world. From my perspective, rather than being one individual book, the societal structure of today is an amalgamation of Animal Farm, 1984 and Brave New World. We have pigs at the top who change the rules to their liking. These pigs use surveillance, erase/alter history, foster snitch culture and assign their opinions onto the masses from birth, which mostly arises from a test tube.
The finishing touch is a populace doped with happiness drug Soma, with people smiling in their prison cell. Soma primarily takes the form of the internet and social media in the current age. It's ironic that the more readily available information is, the harder it is to find truth. Most people are so distracted to even begin looking, anyway. The dystopian literature of yesteryear that frightened readers is already here, and here to stay. So where do you go to from there?
Quote from: The Joker on Tue, 29 Jun 2021, 16:46Indeed! Yeah, I would expect just how Nicholson's Joker returns to vary a bit from the explanation we got in BBROTJ, which may be for the better to be perfectly honest. My first thought would be that his return is the result of something that perhaps the Jokerz gang intentionally, or inadvertently do, but admittedly that's inspired from the idea of a Freddy Krueger cult gang that was very nearly in the "Freddy vs Jason" movie.
Funny that you should mention Freddy vs. Jason, as I almost cited Freddy's possession of Jesse in A Nightmare on Elm Street 2: Freddy's Revenge (1985) as an example of a dead serial killer using the body of a living person to continue their crimes. Jesse's body physically transformed into Freddy's, much the way the Joker's host's would in a BB movie. But that's literally the
only thing BB should copy from ANOES2.
I've got a theory that Freddy Krueger might have been an influence on Nicholson's Joker. I've never heard anyone connected with the film confirm this, but it makes sense. Batman 89 was shot in 1988, which coincided with the peak of Freddy's popularity. That was the year that A Nightmare on Elm Street 4: The Dream Master came out, which was the highest grossing entry in the franchise prior to FvJ. It was also the same year that the Freddy's Nightmares TV series launched and the 'Are You Ready for Freddy?' song was released by Robert Englund and the Fat Boys. Freddy was the biggest pop culture heel around the time that Batman 89 was in production. Both Freddy and Nicholson's Joker are horribly scarred flamboyant serial killers. Both are portrayed by respected actors buried beneath layers of grotesque facial prosthetics. Both murder their victims in a variety of inventive ways while laughing and spouting darkly humorous one-liners.
(https://i.postimg.cc/tJTQ4JvW/freddy-joker.png)
Maybe I'm seeing a correlation where there isn't one. But whether it was intentional or not, I do think that Nicholson's Joker to some degree reflected the popularity of Freddy. Those sickos are cut from the same bloodstained cloth.
Quote from: The Joker on Tue, 29 Jun 2021, 16:46I would also imagine that given a resurrected Napier Joker would be a bit more "edgy" than before, naturally, some people's perception of him would change.
This is one of the most intriguing possibilities presented by his return. Burton was limited with the violence he could depict back in 1989, and yet Nicholson's Joker still managed to accumulate the highest kill count of any live action movie Joker. Imagine what he could get away with today. Particularly if the film had an R-rating. Jack's Joker murdered at least fifty people in the 1989 film.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhAJC_r7cMM
In a modern Batman Beyond movie, he could slaughter twice that amount. It would also create an opportunity to bring back the Joker's lethal pranks, which haven't appeared in a live action movie since 1989. We never actually saw him spray anyone in the face with his acid-squirting flower in the original film, although we did see the aftermath with Alicia. In Batman Beyond, we could have a more graphic depiction of what the Joker's acid attacks would look like. We could see him electrocuting someone again, only this time we could watch the flesh burning without cutting away. I'm not say that this kind of graphic violence is necessary, or even desirable, but it is a possibility. And as you say, it might alter people's perception of how threatening Jack's Joker is.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 30 Jun 2021, 07:55
What appealed to me with Batman Beyond was the fact it was a far flung future so different from the BTAS world we had become accustomed to. Apart from an older Michael Keaton, I imagine a Beyond inspired movie would more or less aesthetically resemble the current day, and would be set in the current day. What type of societal status quo would they be willing to depict?
Dystopian literature interests me greatly in how it accurately mirrors the modern world. From my perspective, rather than being one individual book, the societal structure of today is an amalgamation of Animal Farm, 1984 and Brave New World. We have pigs at the top who change the rules to their liking. These pigs use surveillance, erase/alter history, foster snitch culture and assign their opinions onto the masses from birth, which mostly arises from a test tube.
The finishing touch is a populace doped with happiness drug Soma, with people smiling in their prison cell. Soma primarily takes the form of the internet and social media in the current age. It's ironic that the more readily available information is, the harder it is to find truth. Most people are so distracted to even begin looking, anyway. The dystopian literature of yesteryear that frightened readers is already here, and here to stay. So where do you go to from there?
Those are all excellent novels that are still deeply relevant to the modern world. Here are two more works of dystopian literature that I'd highly recommend to anyone who hasn't read them yet.
Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury. Bradbury's one of my all-time favourite writers, and this is his finest novel. It's depiction of authoritarianism, literary censorship and the prevailing influence of mass media in shaping the way people think was strikingly prophetic. We're constantly hearing reports of how classic works of literature are being 'cancelled' and withdrawn from circulation because they contain language or ideas that certain groups find unacceptable, and Bradbury was warning us of this over half a century ago. He also stated that his novel could be seen as a critique of political correctness, which is again something that's painfully relevant to where western society's heading right now.
A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess. This novel examines themes of free will, good and evil, totalitarianism and the potentially dehumanising effects of behavioural conditioning. Humans are the only creatures on the planet that are capable of contemplating the moral implications of our behaviour, as opposed to acting on pure animal instinct. If you take away a person's freedom to make morally-informed decisions, are they still human? Is there any real merit in compelled virtue if the subject has no choice in the matter? Again, it's not hard to see how these questions are pertinent in an age where many people are signalling 'virtues' to placate an authoritarian collective that refuses to tolerate alternative viewpoints and tries to control what we think by restricting what we can say.
I'd love to see a Batman Beyond film that was equally unsparing in its reflection of society's failings. Not just an entertaining popcorn flick, but a serious science fiction film exploring dystopian themes in a mature and sophisticated manner. Something like that would have fit in neatly with Todd Phillips' DC Black label. Unfortunately it's hard to imagine a modern Hollywood studio having the guts to criticise a mass media of which its own industry is a central component. Even the comic industry wouldn't do that now. Back in the eighties, Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns presented readers with a dystopian tale that reflected the anxieties of Cold War America. Nowadays, the only time DC gets political is to get woke.
(https://www.dccomics.com/sites/default/files/imce/2021/03-MAR/SUPERMAN_Cv32_PRIDE_var_David_Talaski_60496ce2c8df63.08597771.jpg)
Imagine a dark R-rated Batman Beyond movie set ten or twenty years in the future. Speech is tightly regulated, law enforcement has been cripplingly defunded, and both inflation and crime are skyrocketing like never before. 'Neo Gotham' could be a hollow political slogan tied to a proposed urban redevelopment campaign, similar to 'Delta City' in the RoboCop films. Keaton's Bruce Wayne, now fully retired from both his public and crime fighting lives, is observing this societal decay from the solitude of stately Wayne Manor as he slowly drinks himself to death. He's haunted by memories of the past, and in particular by nightmares of Jack Napier. Then one night a teenager named Terry McGinnis breaks into his home and stumbles across the Batcave. Soon after, the media begins reporting on new 'bat sightings', as well as a new wave of crimes that bear an uncanny resemblance to the Joker killings of fifty years previous. Victims are being found across the city with grotesque smiles on their faces. Is it the work of a copycat killer, or has Batman's nemesis somehow returned from beyond the grave? Either way, Bruce has little time to prepare his new protégé for the monumental battle that's about to begin.
I would happily pay an extortionate ticket price to see that film.
big fat leak. This are concepts that were leaked in a video that was ripped down. The images are rapidly getting ripped down as well. Get them while you can.
(https://preview.redd.it/yenr007lif871.jpg?width=896&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7410aa8996072f811b8597e30262a7198e4aa88e)
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5b468551266c0757375ead0c/1625066611019-3G300RF9BPG4DTMV02NF/E5I7xeJWUAQesqf.jfif?format=750w)
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5b468551266c0757375ead0c/1625067197993-8Y91XG6L8K5EIMT97P33/E5I7xeKXIAQYmUM.jfif?format=750w)
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5b468551266c0757375ead0c/1625067212384-1JLU9GWPQ8EQSQVSVLNM/E5I7xeNXoAE_8YR.jfif?format=750w)
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F%5Bimg%2520width%3D560%2520height%3D542%5Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fimages.squarespace-cdn.com%2Fcontent%2Fv1%2F5b468551266c0757375ead0c%2F1625066594048-0YH1DD6ADI61HJQU6FM7%2FE5I7DPAXMAEEXEi.jfif%3Fformat%3D750w&hash=0f748ce0f245084725c3dbf2ab2614d7212262fe)
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5b468551266c0757375ead0c/1625066594048-0YH1DD6ADI61HJQU6FM7/E5I7DPAXMAEEXEi.jfif?format=750w)
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5b468551266c0757375ead0c/1625066583247-OO6ITMH0LFQELEOSRD9T/E5I7DOiWUAYQjnX.jfif?format=750w)
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5b468551266c0757375ead0c/1625066573532-SBQIN15XC4DQYZGIQA5U/E5I45AxXMAQR4e1.jfif?format=750w)
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5b468551266c0757375ead0c/1625066564426-6I4QDI4JDL20SSCQXHA7/E5I8Yv4UYAomlpb.jfif?format=750w)
More.
(https://preview.redd.it/c1sbx7lp3g871.png?width=1087&format=png&auto=webp&s=e5834dff9b8ab37961eb00eef8f416d4061c6bf6)
(https://preview.redd.it/3um7c7lp3g871.png?width=1085&format=png&auto=webp&s=3d01a6773f9603303e26518556c2ee73310f050e)
Looks like they're aiming for the same basic aesthetic as the TV show.
Thrilling...
I'm trying to figure out what vehicle Batman and Flash are sitting in for the first image. Also, whose Batcave is that? I hope it isn't Keaton's because both of the Burton Batcave's look better than that.
I'm wondering if the suit pic that got released a month ago is something that Batman wears in the third act.
I don't think we should read too much into these images. I expect they're just early concept pieces, like the picture that was shown at the FanDome event last year. The images of Keaton are obviously taken from existing sources, and as such do not correspond with the new costume that Muschietti recently teased. For example:
(https://media.vanityfair.com/photos/5ef25d9d184617200a49bac5/master/pass/M8DBATM_WB002.jpg)
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5b468551266c0757375ead0c/1625066611019-3G300RF9BPG4DTMV02NF/E5I7xeJWUAQesqf.jfif?format=750w)
The above concept art resembles the scene from Flashpoint where Batman, Flash and Cyborg discover Superman in his cell.
(https://i.postimg.cc/PrJLzVDQ/flashpoint-superman.png)
I'm guessing the figure cowering on the floor is meant to be Superman. If so, this contradicts the recent reports that (POSSIBLE SPOILERS) the central conflict in the movie will be based on the metahuman war from Kingdom Come rather than the conflict between the Atlanteans and Amazons in Flashpoint, and that Brandon Routh might be appearing in the Burtonverse scenes as the Donnerverse Superman (END SPOILERS). Alternatively, perhaps the recent reports are true and this concept art simply predates the latest draft of the script. These images might have been created at a time when the film's plot was intended to adhere more closely to that of the Flashpoint comic. I suspect the figure whose face is obscured by the spoiler warning might be Cyborg, which would further indicate that these are old concept images predating Ray Fisher's departure from the DCEU.
Another possibility is that the figure cowering on the floor is Supergirl, who in this universe might stand in for Superman.
This next picture obviously depicts Keaton wearing the mask minus the eye makeup.
(https://preview.redd.it/yenr007lif871.jpg?width=896&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7410aa8996072f811b8597e30262a7198e4aa88e)
On a somewhat related note, here's a cool picture I stumbled across recently that shows him wearing the eye makeup without the mask. This is one of the few pictures that shows Keaton in costume minus the cape and cowl.
(https://i.postimg.cc/FHJ7wfDf/keaton-unmasked.png)
Presumably this is what he would have looked like during the deleted scene where Knox is found outside the cathedral.
(https://i.postimg.cc/8PY7ydBQ/knox.png)
Bit of a digression from the topic at hand, but I thought it was an interesting pic worth sharing.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 30 Jun 2021, 14:22
In a modern Batman Beyond movie, he could slaughter twice that amount. It would also create an opportunity to bring back the Joker's lethal pranks, which haven't appeared in a live action movie since 1989. We never actually saw him spray anyone in the face with his acid-squirting flower in the original film, although we did see the aftermath with Alicia. In Batman Beyond, we could have a more graphic depiction of what the Joker's acid attacks would look like. We could see him electrocuting someone again, only this time we could watch the flesh burning without cutting away. I'm not say that this kind of graphic violence is necessary, or even desirable, but it is a possibility. And as you say, it might alter people's perception of how threatening Jack's Joker is.
Supernatural possession has long appealed to me in terms of a hypothetical Nicholson return. His reveal could literally be a repeat of his original entrance - walking into a room as a silhouette saying "I've been dead
twice already, it's very liberating."
Joker's plot in 1989 was simply to gas the populace, which shows a total disregard for humanity to begin with. A resurrected Joker should reflect he's quite literally a monster with nothing to lose. It needs to be a big, scary deal with fear on the streets, just as panic gripped Gotham with the beauty product poisonings. They may dismiss the idea of the Joker's return to begin with, but like 1897's Dracula, people soon begin to believe.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 30 Jun 2021, 14:22
Unfortunately it's hard to imagine a modern Hollywood studio having the guts to criticise a mass media of which its own industry is a central component. Even the comic industry wouldn't do that now. Back in the eighties, Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns presented readers with a dystopian tale that reflected the anxieties of Cold War America. Nowadays, the only time DC gets political is to get woke.
Precisely. As the saying goes, who wins the fight depends on who is writing the story. And these stories are being written by one group of people. They're not going to explore themes that contradict their own world view. Plain and simple.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 30 Jun 2021, 14:22
Imagine a dark R-rated Batman Beyond movie set ten or twenty years in the future. Speech is tightly regulated, law enforcement has been cripplingly defunded, and both inflation and crime are skyrocketing like never before. 'Neo Gotham' could be a hollow political slogan tied to a proposed urban redevelopment campaign, similar to 'Delta City' in the RoboCop films. Keaton's Bruce Wayne, now fully retired from both his public and crime fighting lives, is observing this societal decay from the solitude of stately Wayne Manor as he slowly drinks himself to death. He's haunted by memories of the past, and in particular by nightmares of Jack Napier. Then one night a teenager named Terry McGinnis breaks into his home and stumbles across the Batcave. Soon after, the media begins reporting on new 'bat sightings', as well as a new wave of crimes that bear an uncanny resemblance to the Joker killings of fifty years previous. Victims are being found across the city with grotesque smiles on their faces. Is it the work of a copycat killer, or has Batman's nemesis somehow returned from beyond the grave? Either way, Bruce has little time to prepare his new protégé for the monumental battle that's about to begin.
I would happily pay an extortionate ticket price to see that film.
That is a killer pitch. As I said previously, "where do you go to from there?" when the world is already resembling dystopian fiction of yesteryear. This is the answer. Showing the further decay of the choices that led us to 2021 in the first place. A totally lawless sh!thole where statues are built to worship martyred criminals. Ironically, the Joker may not be wrong in his quest to destroy Gotham. Fahrenheit 451 ends with the city destroyed via nuclear weapons, allowing a rebirth from the decay.
Quote from: BatmanFurst on Wed, 30 Jun 2021, 20:47
I'm trying to figure out what vehicle Batman and Flash are sitting in for the first image. Also, whose Batcave is that? I hope it isn't Keaton's because both of the Burton Batcave's look better than that.
I'm wondering if the suit pic that got released a month ago is something that Batman wears in the third act.
I would be alright with a different looking batcave given Burton himself established that his version doesn't reflect one particular aesthetic. This concept looks like an amalgamation between B89 (the Batmobile parking area) and TDK Rises. Let's see what they do. Things could have been changed since then, or the art just gives a general idea for concepts. What I get from these images is that Keaton's going to have a fair amount of screen time, and in the suit.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 30 Jun 2021, 20:14
Looks like they're aiming for the same basic aesthetic as the TV show.
Thrilling...
It wouldn't surprise me. Rumour has it that the studio are trying to make DC movies with cheap budgets going forward. I've never seen Shazam or BOP, but I've read people saying those films look like they were made for TV compared to Snyder's stuff, Suicide Squad or the first Wonder Woman. If that's the case then I expect the same for The Flash.
Yesterday, Mikey Sutton shared his scoop over these supposed script rewrites. I wouldn't call these spoilers because I don't personally believe them, but if you want to avoid anything Flash-related then don't watch this video.
Flash discussion starts on the 1:07:00 timestamp.
https://youtu.be/3YhPnuwbkmQ
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 30 Jun 2021, 14:22
Funny that you should mention Freddy vs. Jason, as I almost cited Freddy's possession of Jesse in A Nightmare on Elm Street 2: Freddy's Revenge (1985) as an example of a dead serial killer using the body of a living person to continue their crimes. Jesse's body physically transformed into Freddy's, much the way the Joker's host's would in a BB movie. But that's literally the only thing BB should copy from ANOES2.
I've got a theory that Freddy Krueger might have been an influence on Nicholson's Joker. I've never heard anyone connected with the film confirm this, but it makes sense. Batman 89 was shot in 1988, which coincided with the peak of Freddy's popularity. That was the year that A Nightmare on Elm Street 4: The Dream Master came out, which was the highest grossing entry in the franchise prior to FvJ. It was also the same year that the Freddy's Nightmares TV series launched and the 'Are You Ready for Freddy?' song was released by Robert Englund and the Fat Boys. Freddy was the biggest pop culture heel around the time that Batman 89 was in production. Both Freddy and Nicholson's Joker are horribly scarred flamboyant serial killers. Both are portrayed by respected actors buried beneath layers of grotesque facial prosthetics. Both murder their victims in a variety of inventive ways while laughing and spouting darkly humorous one-liners.
(https://i.postimg.cc/tJTQ4JvW/freddy-joker.png)
Maybe I'm seeing a correlation where there isn't one. But whether it was intentional or not, I do think that Nicholson's Joker to some degree reflected the popularity of Freddy. Those sickos are cut from the same bloodstained cloth.
I do see the similarities, and admittedly, the timing couldn't be more perfect. By 1988, New Line Cinema and Renny Harlin presented to the masses what is considered the "80's MTV" NOES entry in the series, and really took Freddy out of the shadows completely. To the point, where Freddy became much more comedic in presentation, along with spouting off more quips than ever before. According to Renny Harlin, by doing this, his understanding that Bob Shaye was absolutely convinced that Renny had literally destroyed New Line's golden goose, and the NOES franchise itself.
Until the opening weekend. Where "Nightmare on Elm Street 4: The Dream Master" went on to become the most successful film in the entire NOES film series. In addition to this, and as Silver stated, 1988 was the year that New Line released the syndicated "Freddy's Nightmares" tv show, that just further added to Freddy Krueger becoming more and more apart of pop culture, and apparently, the most popular frequently returning cinematic villain to come out of the 1980's.
So yeah, I think the correlation between the two works to a degree. By 1989, kids and teenagers were already well primed for a disfigured villain who did dastardly deeds while comically cracking memorable one liners. So with Nicholson's Joker, the interest from that late '80's "MTV Generation" of audiences would, at the very least, be piqued by his portrayal. Then, you have the double whammy of older audiences, who might not have necessarily cared about Freddy, being interested due to Nicholson's mere association. As his career, especially at this point in his career, was prolific to say the least. I believe his scenes in the trailers leading up to Batman 1989 did absolutely everything right in displaying that his performance was something you should
definitely see.
I like the Jesse Walsh-inspired idea. There's some very surreal like scenes I can think of with the Joker psychologically torturing the lad who's body that he's able to physically possess (for his own amusement of course), even when during moments where the Joker is not in full control. Thus providing that 'body horror' dynamic, though perhaps not to the NOES 2 extent...
QuoteThis is one of the most intriguing possibilities presented by his return. Burton was limited with the violence he could depict back in 1989, and yet Nicholson's Joker still managed to accumulate the highest kill count of any live action movie Joker. Imagine what he could get away with today. Particularly if the film had an R-rating. Jack's Joker murdered at least fifty people in the 1989 film.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhAJC_r7cMM
In a modern Batman Beyond movie, he could slaughter twice that amount. It would also create an opportunity to bring back the Joker's lethal pranks, which haven't appeared in a live action movie since 1989. We never actually saw him spray anyone in the face with his acid-squirting flower in the original film, although we did see the aftermath with Alicia. In Batman Beyond, we could have a more graphic depiction of what the Joker's acid attacks would look like. We could see him electrocuting someone again, only this time we could watch the flesh burning without cutting away. I'm not say that this kind of graphic violence is necessary, or even desirable, but it is a possibility. And as you say, it might alter people's perception of how threatening Jack's Joker is.
That's one thing I love about Nicholson's Joker, is that despite his very high body count, his antics are conveyed in a humorous light. Which essentially 'masks' the horrific exploits he's seen doing throughout the film. Having the Nicholson/Napier Joker returning from the grave, and resuming a familiar modus operandi, though under a modern day lens where the envelop can be pushed even further than it could be back in 1989, is something interesting to think about. I mean, these days you could probably get away with the Joker literally electric joy buzzing someone directly in the face (kinda like he did to Alexander Luthor Junior in Infinite Crisis), where we see the aftermath of the poor guy's face literally having been just burnt off while he's on the ground withering in agony, only for the Napier possessed Joker making casual jokes about the situation, and of course at the expense of his victim.
If we were to ever be presented with this Nicholson/Napier Joker using possession to return idea for real, I like the idea of it being conveyed that this guy is very much The Joker from 1989, but with a particular added meanness to him this time. As TDK stated with; "I've been dead twice already, it's very liberating." is most assuredly a paraphrase that could be used. When you're dealing with the concept of possession, I could envision this Joker making a comment, if even passively, about being in Hell. Thus providing the huge chip on his shoulder.
I've been watching this Twitch commentary analysing the leaked footage of the new concept art, as well as Ezra Miller and Andy Muschietti talking about the film.
The fact that Muschietti described the three main characters as "a solar-powered alien and two idiots" is extremely off-putting. It's bad enough they seem to follow the goofy Josstice League version of Barry, but making Keaton's Batman into a goof as well? No, I'm not tolerating that.
Check out the snippet of what Muschietti said on the 01:09:53 timestamp. I hope he is not being too literal.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1073649543
Yeah, idk what he means by that. Who knows if he's even talking about Batman in that statement. I doubt Keaton would've come back if they were going to turn his character into a joke. That description almost makes it sound like Guardians of the Galaxy.
Few things I noticed..
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5b468551266c0757375ead0c/1625066611019-3G300RF9BPG4DTMV02NF/E5I7xeJWUAQesqf.jfif?format=750w)
Keaton's suit looks different, the belt appears to have pouches (granted all of these assets are shots from returns)
Keaton's Batmobile is also now a 4 seater which means this is a newer batmobile
The talking down of Keaton's batman is worrying, topped with the fact he questioned doing it. My hope is that Keaton has control over his character (as he did in the last 2) but my worry is that without Burton it's all on his shoulders to not compromise the character. I just wonder if he agreed before getting a script (ala Val Kilmer) or there was a sudden change, or if his apprehension was similar to that of Returns (can I do it again?).
Once him questioning doing this came out, I began to think about how this might not be good. I'm ok with it because at least I have 89 and Returns because inevitably there will be pushback because this A) WB and B) This is not Synderverse. But yea, this is slowly becoming something to keep an eye on.
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Fri, 2 Jul 2021, 14:53
Few things I noticed..
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5b468551266c0757375ead0c/1625066611019-3G300RF9BPG4DTMV02NF/E5I7xeJWUAQesqf.jfif?format=750w)
Keaton's suit looks different, the belt appears to have pouches (granted all of these assets are shots from returns)
Keaton's Batmobile is also now a 4 seater which means this is a newer batmobile
The talking down of Keaton's batman is worrying, topped with the fact he questioned doing it. My hope is that Keaton has control over his character (as he did in the last 2) but my worry is that without Burton it's all on his shoulders to not compromise the character. I just wonder if he agreed before getting a script (ala Val Kilmer) or there was a sudden change, or if his apprehension was similar to that of Returns (can I do it again?).
Once him questioning doing this came out, I began to think about how this might not be good. I'm ok with it because at least I have 89 and Returns because inevitably there will be pushback because this A) WB and B) This is not Synderverse. But yea, this is slowly becoming something to keep an eye on.
I was thinking it might be a new vehicle.
Quote from: BatmanFurst on Fri, 2 Jul 2021, 13:51
Yeah, idk what he means by that. Who knows if he's even talking about Batman in that statement. I doubt Keaton would've come back if they were going to turn his character into a joke. That description almost makes it sound like Guardians of the Galaxy.
This. Keaton's the same guy who turned down, like, $10 million to do BF. Plus, Keaton seems to be the only bona fide "star" in the movie. Everyone else is a second-stringer, let's be realistic. My assumption is that everything on the set will be "Right away, Mr. Keaton". Let's face it, you can afford to tick off Ezra Miller. But Keaton? No way. There's just no way he hasn't asserted dominance by now.
I'm banking on it all just be a bit of a language barrier for Andy. Maybe idiot wasn't the right word for what he was trying to view in an amusing light, It is possible that Flash and Batman have kind of buddy chemistry as a duo. Remember, Keaton has natural comedy talents, some that would play with Miller's Flash that, while satisfying Batman as a bad ass straight man. Well, here's hoping anyway. ???
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Fri, 2 Jul 2021, 16:54
I'm banking on it all just be a bit of a language barrier for Andy. Maybe idiot wasn't the right word for what he was trying to view in an amusing light, It is possible that Flash and Batman have kind of buddy chemistry as a duo. Remember, Keaton has natural comedy talents, some that would play with Miller's Flash that, while satisfying Batman as a bad ass straight man. Well, here's hoping anyway. ???
Or he's describing how Supergirl sees them. That might be her attitude.
That's a good point! lol I thought the cockpit looked a little longer (the back part) in the concept art.
Here is the full flash in the (?) Batmobile. I also noticed that the "Spoiler Alert" sign is covering someone up, so I wonder who that is (unless this was pre Supergirl leak).
(https://i.postimg.cc/KcgrhWrN/bats.png)
Also, this picture of Batman has the 89 Logo. Considering there were reports that they were filming past stuff with Batman in Gotham, makes me wonder if we'll see him interact with old and younger Batman (De-aged Keaton). There could be a ripple effect (ala Days of Future past) and this would allow Joker and such to be alive and separate the Schumacher Universe (but it still being "cannon" pre-flash). Of course it's all overthinking :D
This is also another Returns manipulated.
(https://i.postimg.cc/85dphNg4/vlcsnap-2021-07-02-17h50m18s166.png)
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Fri, 2 Jul 2021, 16:55
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Fri, 2 Jul 2021, 16:54
I'm banking on it all just be a bit of a language barrier for Andy. Maybe idiot wasn't the right word for what he was trying to view in an amusing light, It is possible that Flash and Batman have kind of buddy chemistry as a duo. Remember, Keaton has natural comedy talents, some that would play with Miller's Flash that, while satisfying Batman as a bad ass straight man. Well, here's hoping anyway. ???
Or he's describing how Supergirl sees them. That might be her attitude.
That's what first crossed my mind. When Andy says idiots he has a comical tone in his voice. On a base level I'd say it's elevating the superpowered being above the human (as experienced as he may be) and the quipping kid who is still learning to control his abilities. It's strongly possible Keatonman restores Barry's powers and keeps proving his worth, regardless of any possible scepticism. Barry may be the first meta human he's ever encountered. This type of thing is new for him but he's adapting fast. Keaton's protective of the character - he's not agreeing to a script he doesn't like.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Fri, 2 Jul 2021, 16:55
Or he's describing how Supergirl sees them. That might be her attitude.
Well, if anything, hopefully this possible flawed
perception that this Supergirl
might have is simply only
initially (and soon after proved incredibly wrong), and due to her, perhaps, self sense of superiority. I'd rather
that than a continued narrative of this Supergirl being exhibited as the solely strong empowered woman of the group, with Flash being constantly goofy, and Keaton's Batman being conveyed as over-the-hill.
That ain't gonna cut it. However, Keaton signing on to a film that would put his Batman under that light seems incredibly suspect, and hopefully that's the case. Especially so if the "plan" is to continue on with Keaton's Batman as a mentor to a new Batgirl, and of course the long-proposed live action "Batman Beyond" movie.
Possibly the two idiots thing isn't aimed at flash and Batman but perhaps Flash and someone else? The spoiler sign is covering a character and it doesn't (?) appear to be supergirl? Cyborg was originally supposed to be in this
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5b468551266c0757375ead0c/1625066564426-6I4QDI4JDL20SSCQXHA7/E5I8Yv4UYAomlpb.jfif?format=750w)
I'm assuming this is cyborg in this shot. I assume they're giving his dialogue to Keaton and Affleck but perhaps they're replacing him with (maybe) Robin or Nightwing or another DC character?
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Fri, 2 Jul 2021, 14:53
The talking down of Keaton's batman is worrying, topped with the fact he questioned doing it. My hope is that Keaton has control over his character (as he did in the last 2) but my worry is that without Burton it's all on his shoulders to not compromise the character. I just wonder if he agreed before getting a script (ala Val Kilmer) or there was a sudden change, or if his apprehension was similar to that of Returns (can I do it again?).
To be fair, he did mention the pandemic was the reason for his hesitation in that Deadline interview back in March.
Like you, I'm not too confident about this film because of the shenanigans going on at the studio. But at the very least, Keaton's Batman should not be screwed over. I hope that Keaton is still protective over his character and will stamp his authority against anything that would undermine him. The worst that could happen is if he no longer cares and phones in his performance for the sake of the paycheck and allows the studio to screw his character over.
On the other hand, can Keaton push back against this studio the way it's currently run? People need to remember that the Justice League situation wasn't an anomaly, even if you disregard the trouble going on behind the scenes. Suicide Squad was the first DC film that got screwed over with characters like Leto's Joker coming off worse than what they were originally conceived. If this studio doesn't care about keeping the likes of Affleck and Leto happy then who is to say they are eager to satisfy Keaton's demands? Just because Geoff Johns doesn't have the power he used to doesn't mean the studio doesn't want to chase after that MCU formula at
any cost. Not to mention the culprits behind the destruction of the DCEU are still running the studio.
With Warner, anything negative is possible.
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Sat, 3 Jul 2021, 15:07
I'm assuming this is cyborg in this shot. I assume they're giving his dialogue to Keaton and Affleck but perhaps they're replacing him with (maybe) Robin or Nightwing or another DC character?
What if it's someone from the Arrowverse? There have been rumours of CW characters would appear in The Flash. What are the odds whoever with the caution covering his face is Grant Gustin's Barry Allen? Or Tom Cavanagh's Harrison Wells?
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sun, 4 Jul 2021, 13:06
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Fri, 2 Jul 2021, 14:53
The talking down of Keaton's batman is worrying, topped with the fact he questioned doing it. My hope is that Keaton has control over his character (as he did in the last 2) but my worry is that without Burton it's all on his shoulders to not compromise the character. I just wonder if he agreed before getting a script (ala Val Kilmer) or there was a sudden change, or if his apprehension was similar to that of Returns (can I do it again?).
To be fair, he did mention the pandemic was the reason for his hesitation in that Deadline interview back in March.
Like you, I'm not too confident about this film because of the shenanigans going on at the studio. But at the very least, Keaton's Batman should not be screwed over. I hope that Keaton is still protective over his character and will stamp his authority against anything that would undermine him. The worst that could happen is if he no longer cares and phones in his performance for the sake of the paycheck and allows the studio to screw his character over.
On the other hand, can Keaton push back against this studio the way it's currently run? People need to remember that the Justice League situation wasn't an anomaly, even if you disregard the trouble going on behind the scenes. Suicide Squad was the first DC film that got screwed over with characters like Leto's Joker coming off worse than what they were originally conceived. If this studio doesn't care about keeping the likes of Affleck and Leto happy then who is to say they are eager to satisfy Keaton's demands? Just because Geoff Johns doesn't have the power he used to doesn't mean the studio doesn't want to chase after that MCU formula at any cost. Not to mention the culprits behind the destruction of the DCEU are still running the studio.
With Warner, anything negative is possible.
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Sat, 3 Jul 2021, 15:07
I'm assuming this is cyborg in this shot. I assume they're giving his dialogue to Keaton and Affleck but perhaps they're replacing him with (maybe) Robin or Nightwing or another DC character?
What if it's someone from the Arrowverse? There have been rumours of CW characters would appear in The Flash. What are the odds whoever with the caution covering his face is Grant Gustin's Barry Allen? Or Tom Cavanagh's Harrison Wells?
My first reaction to the covid thing was that it was the excuse in a similar fashion as to how his paycheck was in Forever because he mentioned having to read the final draft (which is what got me worried that he had little faith with how the script turned out)
"I called them and said, I have to be honest with you. I can't look at anything right now. I'm so deep into this thing I'm doing. Also, I'm prepping a thing I'm producing and getting ready to do down the road in the fall that I'll be in, and I feel responsible to that. So, yeah, there is that. I'm not being cute or coy. If I talked about it, I'll be just bulls***ting you. I don't really know. I have to look at the last draft." and that was back in March.
Covid was on massive decline in the UK when he was asked and he mentioned how he was staying as up to date as he could (given how politically aware his instagram is, I would not doubt it) and I'm sure he got Vaccinated as fast as he could but it still could see it being a major concern so I won't judge him over wanting to stay safe and healthy.
(https://i.postimg.cc/4xXwn88c/Screenshot-2021-07-04-114456.png)
This was also before Cyborg was officially out (granted he just worse a mo-cap suit so it's not like they lost a lot making a few suits but this production is a bit of a mess (though not the worst by fat). But I do have my worries. I feel like Keaton's been on a nostalgic Batman run since the Robocop reboot and loved that people remember him for it, and with the Beatlejuice sequel falling apart (the one part he said he'd like to revisit the most but it'd have to be done right) I figured he's just like "Eh, Batman the next best thing so why not". The fact he's doing it without Burton (another thing he said that's the only way he'd do it) is what makes me believe he may have a considerable amount of control over the character.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 1 Jul 2021, 00:57"I've been dead twice already, it's very liberating."
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a6/8f/31/a68f31bcf056128be3e9d28ffac18d61.gif)
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 1 Jul 2021, 00:57That is a killer pitch. As I said previously, "where do you go to from there?" when the world is already resembling dystopian fiction of yesteryear. This is the answer. Showing the further decay of the choices that led us to 2021 in the first place. A totally lawless sh!thole where statues are built to worship martyred criminals. Ironically, the Joker may not be wrong in his quest to destroy Gotham. Fahrenheit 451 ends with the city destroyed via nuclear weapons, allowing a rebirth from the decay.
I don't want to break the site rules on political discussion, but I do think there's tremendous scope for satire in a Batman Beyond movie. You could have the media retroactively condemning Batman as a fascist agent of the police state and claiming that his enemies were victims. For example:
GOTHAM NEWS ANCHOR: "The Red Triangle organisation's protests were fiery but mostly peaceful, and what the Batman did to them thirty years ago was police brutality without the dubious oversight or accountability that the GCPD has continually failed to uphold. The late Commissioner James Gordon's complicity in the Batman's fascist campaign of violence is the primary reason protestors are now campaigning to have his memorial plaque removed from police headquarters. His daughter Barbara, the present police commissioner, declined to comment on the recent motion. In related news, the Anti-Defamation League has formally classified the bat-emblem as a hate symbol..."
But again, I don't think any studio would have the guts to do this nowadays.
Quote from: The Joker on Thu, 1 Jul 2021, 09:23I do see the similarities, and admittedly, the timing couldn't be more perfect. By 1988, New Line Cinema and Renny Harlin presented to the masses what is considered the "80's MTV" NOES entry in the series, and really took Freddy out of the shadows completely. To the point, where Freddy became much more comedic in presentation, along with spouting off more quips than ever before. According to Renny Harlin, by doing this, his understanding that Bob Shaye was absolutely convinced that Renny had literally destroyed New Line's golden goose, and the NOES franchise itself.
Until the opening weekend. Where "Nightmare on Elm Street 4: The Dream Master" went on to become the most successful film in the entire NOES film series. In addition to this, and as Silver stated, 1988 was the year that New Line released the syndicated "Freddy's Nightmares" tv show, that just further added to Freddy Krueger becoming more and more apart of pop culture, and apparently, the most popular frequently returning cinematic villain to come out of the 1980's.
So yeah, I think the correlation between the two works to a degree. By 1989, kids and teenagers were already well primed for a disfigured villain who did dastardly deeds while comically cracking memorable one liners. So with Nicholson's Joker, the interest from that late '80's "MTV Generation" of audiences would, at the very least, be piqued by his portrayal. Then, you have the double whammy of older audiences, who might not have necessarily cared about Freddy, being interested due to Nicholson's mere association. As his career, especially at this point in his career, was prolific to say the least. I believe his scenes in the trailers leading up to Batman 1989 did absolutely everything right in displaying that his performance was something you should definitely see.
I like the Jesse Walsh-inspired idea. There's some very surreal like scenes I can think of with the Joker psychologically torturing the lad who's body that he's able to physically possess (for his own amusement of course), even when during moments where the Joker is not in full control. Thus providing that 'body horror' dynamic, though perhaps not to the NOES 2 extent...
I'm sorry to go off topic, but A Nightmare on Elm Street is another one of those subjects that should get its own thread at some point. It's my favourite of the classic eighties slasher movie franchises, and The Dream Master is my second favourite entry in the series after The Dream Warriors. Admittedly it is formulaic – which is inevitable with any fourquel – but the formula is executed with creativity, energy and panache. Lisa Wilcox is great as Alice, a genuinely sympathetic 'final girl' who has a proper character arc and a likeable personality. Physically, she somewhat resembled a young Gillian Anderson and possessed an athleticism that I find very attractive.
(https://i.piccy.info/i9/f6f05cc7b35594131db7967b60892c51/1559237123/31302/1309432/Lisa_Wilcox_Alice_.jpg)
With most slasher movies we're not given much reason to care about the victims, but I always feel bad for the people Freddy kills. The scene where Alice daydreams about her brother Rick climbing out of his coffin is actually quite sad and atypical of the genre. Slasher films rarely humanise the victims to that extent or depict the grief of their loved ones, but the ANOES series wasn't afraid to go there (Rick's dad also makes a mournful reference to him in Part 5 when he tells Alice that he hopes her baby will be a boy, as it will "Be nice to have a boy playing in the house again"). The victims all have individual personalities that are in some way reflected in the manner of their death. Granted, those personalities became increasingly stereotypical and two-dimensional as the series progressed, but that's still more characterisation than you'd get from any Friday the 13th flick.
I always liked that description of The Dream Master as the 'MTV nightmare'. It primarily alludes to the energetic camera movements and editing techniques, but it also reflects the prominent use of music throughout the film. A Nightmare on Elm Street 4 has one of the best horror soundtracks of the eighties.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiB8QN-sAAw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRzZ4q9I-1Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNfLsXxBpVs
Of course the movie's not perfect. I never liked that scene where Freddy's claw marks randomly appear across the lockers in the school hallway. Sure, it's a nod to the audience that he's about to return, but within the context of the story it makes absolutely no sense. It's not happening in a dream and none of the characters are seeing it, so why is it there? The plot point about the dog resurrecting Freddy is silly and poorly thought out, and Rick's death scene is disappointing, although I understand that this was due to the budget running out. But overall I think it's an underrated movie. It's well paced, exciting, has a likeable protagonist, a great soundtrack and some inventive set pieces (Robert Englund cites the time loop sequence as his favourite moment from the entire franchise).
It's also well directed by Renny Harlin, and I seem to remember him stating in the Never Sleep Again documentary (which is a must-have for fans for the series) that it was his work on ANOES4 that landed him the gig directing Die Hard 2. From there he went on to become one of the top action movie directors of the nineties with films like Cliffhanger and The Long Kiss Goodnight, none of which he would have helmed had it not been for the success of ANOES4. The Dream Master was the 17th highest grossing movie at the US box office that year and the 19th highest grossing film globally. I've heard that it also received strong reviews when it first came out, so it definitely would have been on the industry's radar when Batman 89 was in production.
Anyway, sorry again for the digression. Back to the topic at hand.
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Sat, 3 Jul 2021, 15:07
Possibly the two idiots thing isn't aimed at flash and Batman but perhaps Flash and someone else? The spoiler sign is covering a character and it doesn't (?) appear to be supergirl? Cyborg was originally supposed to be in this
Indeed. The consensus I've been seeing on most sites is that Muschietti's "two idiots" line does not refer to Batman, but rather to Barry and whoever's face was obscured behind the spoiler tag (Cyborg? Wally West? Alexander Knox? Robin?). I don't think it's anything to worry about. And to reiterate something I wrote earlier in the thread, I suspect this video is pretty old anyway and that some of the plot points and concept images featured in it might no longer be relevant to the film in its current form.
The vehicle company working on the film posted this.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E5-Kv9tWEAEZxSR?format=jpg&name=large)
I'm not crazy, right? That's Batman and Robin, isn't it?
Looks like it.
(https://i.postimg.cc/6pKYyK8V/b-and-r-logo.gif)
Will these merely be trophies displayed in the Batcave, or will the Burtonverse Robin/Nightwing make an appearance? Or will Chris O'Donnell make a cameo alongside the rumoured third Batman? If the Schumacher Batman does appear, hopefully it'll be Kilmer rather than Clooney. They could always get Val's son Jack to speak his dialogue for him.
Wondering if it's something for the crew, but then why Batman & Robin? Unless it's an inside joke?
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Mon, 12 Jul 2021, 13:48
I'm not crazy, right? That's Batman and Robin, isn't it?
You know it is. We all know that symbol. If there's a Schumacherverse reference I'm hoping they play it completely straight and resist the urge to joke about them. Those opinions remain in the real world, not in universe. A Schumacher reference could be their way of setting the timeline diversion in stone, letting the audience know the 1989-1992 and 1995-1997 timelines
are seperate.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Mon, 12 Jul 2021, 23:50letting the audience know the 1989-1992 and 1995-1997 timelines are seperate.
Eh. I mean, I get that. But canon or official continuity be damned, I will always believe that B89-B&R tell a story about the same guy.
(But yeah, the current movies can do whatever they want, Keaton is back, nothing else matters)
It does. But I've never considered 95-97 to be a pure Keaton continuation.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6fiMy1X0Ag1Rqz?format=jpg&name=900x900)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6rzR4dXoAEvxAe?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6rzSFpWEAAwrai?format=jpg&name=900x900)
(https://i.pinimg.com/564x/d6/7f/92/d67f92a0fcad8b9a9f840e933243d82a.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6faMG2VIAEalCG?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Sat, 17 Jul 2021, 11:41(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6fiRTUXsAAiJKW?format=jpg&name=900x900)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6fiSJVWQAAe0X6?format=jpg&name=900x900)
There she is. 8)
They're obviously not going for an exact recreation of the 1989 Batcave, but you can see how some of the aesthetic principles have carried over in the way the Brutalist concrete walls blend with the surrounding rock. Note the metal ladder protruding from the wall to the left of the turntable.
(https://i.postimg.cc/fWXcKw13/batcave.png)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6fiRTUXsAAiJKW?format=jpg&name=900x900)
This one's interesting, as it looks like a cross between the 1989 Batcave and the Nolan version.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6fiMy1X0Ag1Rqz?format=jpg&name=900x900)
I hope they'll throw in some elements of the Batman Returns Batcave too.
Supergirl's costume looks better here without the harness, but it really needs red boots and a belt or trunks to break up the blue.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6faMG2VIAEalCG?format=jpg&name=900x900)
But on the whole, it's all looking good so far.
Looks good. I'm okay with a different batcave. And when I think about it, using known elements of B89 but doing something new is probably the best way to reconcile the B89-BR aesthetic change as every Keaton cave was different. I also hope they include nods to the Returns cave as it then becomes a celebration of both films while also embracing the future. I see it as the same environment with a different expressionistic atmosphere.
Great to see the Batmobile in all its glory. Unchanged as you cannot improve upon perfection. After seeing the new design for the Keaton Batcycle I'd love to see that parked somewhere.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Sat, 17 Jul 2021, 11:41(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6g10ebXIAMNBng?format=jpg&name=900x900)
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/3182ee1f3935aaac75b36a982aa606f9/tumblr_nugufoECDz1sa11jco1_540.gif)
They added the windshield wipers to the Batmobile which I belive was unique to the returns car :D
I wonder what kind of (what I am assuming is) small updates the car will have? I also wonder if Bruce/Batman will have this frozen state regression sort of thing after Alfred died?
Heads up. I had to update the image links. I guess WB is ripping the stuff down even though this 'leak' is so obviously staged. If the pics go down I can Dm them as I have them saved.
Also! Just to add my take to the mix. Nemesis mentioned the ladder. A ladder that goes down. The wall and ladder are the same...
I think this is the 89 Batcave, but Bruce has rebuilt a command center at the bottom of the chasm. Might give us a clue as to where he is at emotionally and symbolically.
EDIT: Also Miller has long hair. More evidence that the scene they were caught shooting in London is a resolution.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Sat, 17 Jul 2021, 18:00
Also! Just to add my take to the mix. Nemesis mentioned the ladder. A ladder that goes down. The wall and ladder are the same...
I think this is the 89 Batcave, but Bruce has rebuilt a command center at the bottom of the chasm. Might give us a clue as to where he is at emotionally and symbolically.
I'm not sure, but it's possible. The B89 chasm looked impossibly deep. The cave beneath the cave concept was used in Batman Forever. I'm honestly okay with a new/amalgamation cave or a B89 adaption. As long as it looks good, and it does.
I do wonder where he'll keep his suits/how many and how are they stored. There doesn't appear to be cases (in these photos) as I assume there will be, and if we'll see any outside the 89/Returns suits.
Interesting how he keeps the Batmobile as is (which backs up another user who thinks the 4 seater vehicle is another vehicle altogether)
What were in those other phots that have been taken down?
Quote from: Travesty on Mon, 19 Jul 2021, 19:40
What were in those other phots that have been taken down?
The one that stands out was a set photo featuring the Furst Batmobile.
Quote from: Travesty on Mon, 19 Jul 2021, 19:40
What were in those other phots that have been taken down?
I've updated them with new sources (again.) Enjoy. Page 19.
Thanks for the update. Everything looks great.
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Mon, 19 Jul 2021, 15:15
I do wonder where he'll keep his suits/how many and how are they stored. There doesn't appear to be cases (in these photos) as I assume there will be, and if we'll see any outside the 89/Returns suits.
I was thinking a B89 styled suit vault could be visible from the side in the first image GK posted on page 19. I'm referring to the object sticking out behind the large pillar on the left.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Tue, 20 Jul 2021, 02:56
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Mon, 19 Jul 2021, 15:15
I do wonder where he'll keep his suits/how many and how are they stored. There doesn't appear to be cases (in these photos) as I assume there will be, and if we'll see any outside the 89/Returns suits.
I was thinking a B89 styled suit vault could be visible from the side in the first image GK posted on page 19. I'm referring to the object sticking out behind the large pillar on the left.
Just saw Cosplaychris' video on it and he said the same thing. Good eyes!
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Mon, 19 Jul 2021, 15:15
Interesting how he keeps the Batmobile as is (which backs up another user who thinks the 4 seater vehicle is another vehicle altogether)
We know how the Burton Batmobile enters the B89 cave - through the tunnel with the hologram concealment. However we never saw how the Batwing or Batskiboat made their exits. I'm thinking it's via a different way. If the 4 seater is a plane or a boat, a possible benefit of a different cave aesthetic could be showing an alternate tunnel to the skies or ocean.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon, 19 Jul 2021, 23:34
Quote from: Travesty on Mon, 19 Jul 2021, 19:40
What were in those other phots that have been taken down?
The one that stands out was a set photo featuring the Furst Batmobile.
The set photos of the Batcave and Furstmobile are making me wish we're getting a third Keaton Batman for real, instead of what we are really getting.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Mon, 21 Jun 2021, 15:36
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Mon, 21 Jun 2021, 02:37
This video contains potential spoilers for The Flash and the ramifications for the Snyderverse.
https://youtu.be/xp8X6YLxffo
So if we're lead to believe what these guys are saying, this movie is branching off a new timeline with the incorporation of Keaton's Batman for theatrical continuity, but it doesn't mean Snyderverse is getting erased, just branched into a different part of the multiverse. Which means, according to what they've said in the past, it gives a chance to continue anything Snyder-related on streaming. But why would a studio that is "aggressively anti-Snyder", as the director himself describes, want to do that? Unless AT&T and Discovery are blocking any avenues for the film to do a complete reboot.
The bit that astonishes me is the claim that there might not be even a real villain in this. That Reverse-Flash is only going to be teased for a potential sequel, whereas the rest of the film is just about Barry Allen getting lost into this mess he created by saving his mother, hence the Flashpoint comparisons. If this is all true, it sounds ridiculous, in my opinion.
Last year, I was excited to hear about The Flash about exploring the DC multiverse, but not if it's going to replace one thing over the other, even if it's only for theatrical runs. If all of this crap that these guys are saying is true then it's going to be a clusterf***.
I'm quoting myself yet again because as you call tell, the video that was originally uploaded by the LightCast YouTube channel is dead. In fact, all of their videos that I've embedded over the past year on this forum are dead.
And there is a good reason for that:
https://www.cvbj.biz/2021/07/19/the-animated-comic-that-was-to-continue-the-snyder-cut-canceled/
https://screenrant.com/justice-league-2-motion-comic-art-stealing-accusation/
In addition to cancelling this project because of the negative attention they brought upon themselves, they've deleted their Twitter account and removed all of their videos on their YouTube channel. That means all of their interviews they've had with both Zack and Deborah Snyder, Ray Fisher, Ray Porter and so on, are gone.
It's a very, very bad look on their part. FWIW, the info they got about this film was apparently from a Reddit post, which word around the streets says it's all fake (naturally). Going forward, I think it's safe to say that everything we've heard from them in the past should be dismissed.
Extremely disappointing.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 17 Jul 2021, 13:13
Looks good. I'm okay with a different batcave. And when I think about it, using known elements of B89 but doing something new is probably the best way to reconcile the B89-BR aesthetic change as every Keaton cave was different. I also hope they include nods to the Returns cave as it then becomes a celebration of both films while also embracing the future.
I also want this approach applied to Gotham City itself. While the I Am Batman game tech demo is clearly based on the 1989 Gotham, they still managed to incorporate some of the statues from Batman Returns during the sequence where Batman is driving to the city.
(https://i.postimg.cc/7Y1z176K/I-Am-Batman-Gotham.gif)
There are obvious differences between the B89 and BR Gothams – the former is a gothic fusion of art deco, film noir and diesel punk futurism, while the latter is a gothic fusion of art deco, German expressionism and early 20th century fascist architecture – but I think they're similar enough that they can be reconciled as the same city. The Gotham Square from B89 would be a more historic section of the city serving as its cultural and political hub. That area contains the cathedral, the Monarch Theatre, the Flugelheim Museum, the Gotham Central railway station, Gotham Globe offices and City Hall. I imagine the Hall of Records from BR was probably situated in that district as well. The Gotham Plaza from BR seems more like a commercial district for retail and business. There are major department stores like Shreck's, as well as smaller outlets like the gift shop the Red Triangle firebreather torches. It's where the Christmas shoppers converge to see the tree lighting ceremony and it seems to be located close to the park and old zoo. Then there's the industrial district on the city's outskirts containing Axis Chemicals and Shrek's 'clean' textile plant. All of these places could be contained within the same Gotham.
On a related note, I like the latest preview from the Batman '89 comic that Gotham Knight posted in another thread. It shows stately Wayne Manor as a fusion of the B89 and BR versions.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6sz7sTWEAIiBfj?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://i.postimg.cc/jqfTF4y4/stately.png)
As with Gotham City, perhaps the two stately Wayne Manors are just the same large estate viewed from different perspectives. Maybe the different wings of the building were built in different time periods and in different architectural styles.
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Mon, 19 Jul 2021, 15:15
I do wonder where he'll keep his suits/how many and how are they stored. There doesn't appear to be cases (in these photos) as I assume there will be, and if we'll see any outside the 89/Returns suits.
One rumour I've heard is that the original 1989 batsuit will be seen in the Batcave at some point. If the scene of Barry's arrival in the Batcave follows the scene in the Flashpoint comic, then I can imagine him slowly walking around the vault looking at all the old costumes, gadgets and vehicles before Batman himself finally emerges from the shadows to confront him. Showing the 1989 batsuit would be a great way of teasing Keaton's return right before he appears on screen for the first time. Maybe Barry sees Batman standing perfectly still in the shadows and mistakes him for another empty costume. Then, as Barry walks past, the costume suddenly reaches out and grabs him...
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Tue, 20 Jul 2021, 11:22
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Mon, 19 Jul 2021, 15:15
Interesting how he keeps the Batmobile as is (which backs up another user who thinks the 4 seater vehicle is another vehicle altogether)
We know how the Burton Batmobile enters the B89 cave - through the tunnel with the hologram concealment. However we never saw how the Batwing or Batskiboat made their exits. I'm thinking it's via a different way. If the 4 seater is a plane or a boat, a possible benefit of a different cave aesthetic could be showing an alternate tunnel to the skies or ocean.
I hope they show something like this. The Batcave has traditionally contained subterranean waterways by which the Batboat is launched. The comic book Batcave contains such rivers, and so does the Schumacher version. It makes sense for the Burton Batcave to contain a river or canal as well. When it comes to the Batwing, I like the idea of it being stored in a hangar disguised as a barn like in the Golden Age comics. But I'll settle for having a hangar inside the cave itself.
This opinion piece makes great points about Keaton's Batman needing a significant character arc to make his return worthwhile. The Flash will be worse off if he doesn't.
Quote
Although Michael Keaton's return is highly anticipated, there's a very real danger of The Flash running primarily on nostalgia. So far, most news regarding the production has been Batman-related, with set photos teasing Wayne Manor, the Batmobile, and Batcave, while even Muschietti revealed a glimpse of Keaton's bloodied Batman suit. Seeing these elements revived is undoubtedly exciting, but the film needs to provide solid reasoning for his presence and develop his character to ensure a natural continuation of Keaton's storyline.
Why has The Flash specifically chosen to bring back Keaton's Batman? Obviously, the character is far older now, automatically lending him the aura of a mentor figure to Barry. However, Affleck reportedly shares this role, therefore Keaton needs to offer something different. Affleck's Batman had lost his way, and his story shifted from brutality to redemption. Curiously, Keaton's version never seemed to mind a little bloodshed. Perhaps this was overlooked because Tim Burton created such a twisted world that justified killing, but The Flash offers a compelling avenue to directly confront the characters' use of violence. What will Keaton's Batman make of Barry's world, and what could he learn from the young superhero? Concept art displays the Flash in a new costume, fighting alongside Keaton in full costume, enticing fans with a fun team-up but providing no insight regarding their dynamic. The film might coast on the thrill of seeing his Batman in action, but this would be as meaningless as the nostalgia-fuelled insertion of Danny Elfman's Batman theme into 2017's Justice League.
In DCEU canon, Affleck's Batman is likely on the way out, having successfully established a new generation of heroes. The Flash may continue this idea and could provide a fascinating contrast to the older yet still-active Keaton. Muschietti's film must address what Keaton's Batman has been doing all this time – how he might have changed and why he is possibly yet to retire. Alfred has surely passed away, and Keaton's Batman perhaps never trained a Robin to continue his legacy. If his rogues' gallery still runs rampant in Gotham, this could all be used to explore his reluctance to give up Batman. Still, rather than shamelessly namedrop Jack Nicholson's Joker and Danny DeVito's Penguin, to whom Barry has zero connection, Keaton's return needs to expand his world. Catwoman could still be at large, while Harvey Dent has likely undergone his transformation into Two-Face. These factors are more likely to affect Batman's stance on crimefighting than aimless references to dead foes.
Keaton appears to have a substantial role in The Flash, but his impact is entirely dependent on lending purpose to his return. The critically-panned Space Jam: A New Legacy and Scoob! both revealed the depths of Warner Bros. aggressively pushing nostalgia over compelling storylines. Whether a one-off appearance or the beginning of something larger, the film must provide a tangible future for Keaton's Batman, not a "greatest hits" of the past.
https://screenrant.com/michael-keaton-batman-return-flash-movie-nostalgia-avoid/
Another thought to consider: will The Flash acknowledge any of the events that have taken place in the new Batman '89 comics? I'd like to know if Sam Hamm communicates with the Flash writers, or if he is doing any uncredited rewrites for the film. All I've heard at the moment is a rumour claiming Affleck is allegedly rewriting his own part so he has more screen time.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Wed, 21 Jul 2021, 13:19
This opinion piece makes great points about Keaton's Batman needing a significant character arc to make his return worthwhile. The Flash will be worse off if he doesn't.
Quote
Although Michael Keaton's return is highly anticipated, there's a very real danger of The Flash running primarily on nostalgia. So far, most news regarding the production has been Batman-related, with set photos teasing Wayne Manor, the Batmobile, and Batcave, while even Muschietti revealed a glimpse of Keaton's bloodied Batman suit. Seeing these elements revived is undoubtedly exciting, but the film needs to provide solid reasoning for his presence and develop his character to ensure a natural continuation of Keaton's storyline.
Why has The Flash specifically chosen to bring back Keaton's Batman? Obviously, the character is far older now, automatically lending him the aura of a mentor figure to Barry. However, Affleck reportedly shares this role, therefore Keaton needs to offer something different. Affleck's Batman had lost his way, and his story shifted from brutality to redemption. Curiously, Keaton's version never seemed to mind a little bloodshed. Perhaps this was overlooked because Tim Burton created such a twisted world that justified killing, but The Flash offers a compelling avenue to directly confront the characters' use of violence. What will Keaton's Batman make of Barry's world, and what could he learn from the young superhero? Concept art displays the Flash in a new costume, fighting alongside Keaton in full costume, enticing fans with a fun team-up but providing no insight regarding their dynamic. The film might coast on the thrill of seeing his Batman in action, but this would be as meaningless as the nostalgia-fuelled insertion of Danny Elfman's Batman theme into 2017's Justice League.
In DCEU canon, Affleck's Batman is likely on the way out, having successfully established a new generation of heroes. The Flash may continue this idea and could provide a fascinating contrast to the older yet still-active Keaton. Muschietti's film must address what Keaton's Batman has been doing all this time – how he might have changed and why he is possibly yet to retire. Alfred has surely passed away, and Keaton's Batman perhaps never trained a Robin to continue his legacy. If his rogues' gallery still runs rampant in Gotham, this could all be used to explore his reluctance to give up Batman. Still, rather than shamelessly namedrop Jack Nicholson's Joker and Danny DeVito's Penguin, to whom Barry has zero connection, Keaton's return needs to expand his world. Catwoman could still be at large, while Harvey Dent has likely undergone his transformation into Two-Face. These factors are more likely to affect Batman's stance on crimefighting than aimless references to dead foes.
Keaton appears to have a substantial role in The Flash, but his impact is entirely dependent on lending purpose to his return. The critically-panned Space Jam: A New Legacy and Scoob! both revealed the depths of Warner Bros. aggressively pushing nostalgia over compelling storylines. Whether a one-off appearance or the beginning of something larger, the film must provide a tangible future for Keaton's Batman, not a "greatest hits" of the past.
https://screenrant.com/michael-keaton-batman-return-flash-movie-nostalgia-avoid/
Another thought to consider: will The Flash acknowledge any of the events that have taken place in the new Batman '89 comics? I'd like to know if Sam Hamm communicates with the Flash writers, or if he is doing any uncredited rewrites for the film. All I've heard at the moment is a rumour claiming Affleck is allegedly rewriting his own part so he has more screen time.
Screen Rant is guilty until proven innocent. F those people. The two or three Snyder-friendly staffers they have can't magically erase the long knives that have been out against all things Snyder from the jump.
In the second place, nostalgia is EXACTLY what I want. The only non-nostalgia arc Hollywood seems interested in doing these days is "Out with the old, in with the new and politically correct". No, sorry, that won't fly when it comes to Keaton's Batman. I want a nostalgia romp par excellence. I haven't seen the new Space Jam but Scoob! was barely a Scooby Doo movie at all. Hello, straw man!
Remember, Screen Rant is presumed guilty until proven innocent.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 21 Jul 2021, 13:58
Screen Rant is guilty until proven innocent. F those people. The two or three Snyder-friendly staffers they have can't magically erase the long knives that have been out against all things Snyder from the jump.
Be that as it may, none of that compares to what the POS garbage excuse of a studio has done by sabotaging all things Snyder over years. Even when ZSJL was finally coming out.
We can condemn the clickbait merchants all we want for their own misdeeds, but at some point, the buck stops with the wretched studio. They decided to sabotage their own productions in the worst possible way, and double down on their spite ever since.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 21 Jul 2021, 13:58
In the second place, nostalgia is EXACTLY what I want.
I'm of the opposite opinion. While I have no love for the whole "let the past die", over the top PC nonsense you see in modern day blockbuster crap like Last Jedi, I have no interest in having constant nostalgic fan service for the sake of it either. I've repeatedly said that although my expectations in The Flash are dwindling, I hope for the very least that Keaton has an arc that honours the past while embracing the future. Something that makes his return worthwhile instead of making it into a cheap cash grab. If they can't do that then what's the point of bringing Keaton back at all? I'd rather stick with B89 and BR if that's the case.
Huge grain of salt as always. I've heard that Chris O'Donnell was spotted on the Flash set. George Clooney was not seen, but is believed to be filming a cameo. Val Kilmer is said to have done a screen test but declined in the end to participate after all. Robin is said to make a surprise save.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Thu, 22 Jul 2021, 01:33
Huge grain of salt as always. I've heard that Chris O'Donnell was spotted on the Flash set. George Clooney was not seen, but is believed to be filming a cameo. Val Kilmer is said to have done a screen test but declined in the end to participate after all. Robin is said to make a surprise save.
If O'Donnell shows up for this, I'll be there with bells on even more.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Thu, 22 Jul 2021, 01:33
Huge grain of salt as always. I've heard that Chris O'Donnell was spotted on the Flash set. George Clooney was not seen, but is believed to be filming a cameo. Val Kilmer is said to have done a screen test but declined in the end to participate after all. Robin is said to make a surprise save.
I don't know where you heard that, but the B&R logo was definitely referenced on social media. I wouldn't be surprised if we get something, and I hope we do. Clooney would be the easier choice given Val's voice problems. Keaton is my main attraction here, but if more Batman incarnations can be celebrated I'm all for it.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Thu, 22 Jul 2021, 01:33
Huge grain of salt as always. I've heard that Chris O'Donnell was spotted on the Flash set. George Clooney was not seen, but is believed to be filming a cameo. Val Kilmer is said to have done a screen test but declined in the end to participate after all. Robin is said to make a surprise save.
This would fit with the rumours of a third Batman appearing. If Barry does visit the Schumacherverse, I hope it's not done in a snide way. By all means keep the nipples on the costumes, but don't draw attention to them in the dialogue. I don't want Barry saying, "Uh, why have you, like, got nipples on your costume?" as though it's some hilariously original observation that no one's ever pointed out before. Keep the colourful lights and comic book visuals, but do it respectfully.
As for O'Donnell, I'd love to see him appear as Nightwing. In many ways, I regard O'Donnell as the true star of the Schumacher movies. Unlike Kilmer and Clooney, he appeared in both films. He had to train in martial arts and wear an uncomfortable rubber costume, just like the Batman actors did, and his character's story arc was as integral to the duology as Batman's was. Perhaps even more so. BF is his origin story, while B&R is centred around the highs and lows of his partnership with Batman. The next step would have been to show him maturing into Nightwing and striking out on his own. There were hints of this in the original B&R script, and the idea would have been explored more thoroughly in Batman Unchained and the spinoff Nightwing movie they were planning. Nightwing is the natural conclusion to Dick's character arc that began in BF.
(https://i.postimg.cc/mgH9ZrPs/nightwing.png)
Many fans feel we were cheated out of more adventures from Keaton's Batman. The two films we got with him were great, but there should have been at least one or two more. Now, thirty years later, we're finally getting them. I don't feel anywhere near as strongly about the lost potential of O'Donnell's Robin, but I do have a sense that his story wasn't quite concluded. If they show him as Nightwing in The Flash, it'll serve as a nice coda to the Schumacher films and might help raise interest in a Batman '95 comic.
It would be a pity if Kilmer has passed on returning, but understandable in light of his health problems. I hope he'll give the studio permission to use his likeness though. I think I'd prefer to have Kilmer's face mapped onto a stand-ins body using deep fake technology than have Clooney return.
If the Flash arrives in the Schumacherverse and finds Batman and Nightwing fighting King Tut, I will squeal with delight.
After all the mockery it would be a huge deal for Chris and a George to actually agree to this. When you digest the history of 1997's Batman and Robin, the idea they would be resurrected even for a brief cameo has far less probability than Keaton coming back. That movie has been something the brand has tried to bury under an avalanche of darkness and realism. Would Chris and George thus see this as redemption and alter their performance somewhat? Do they embrace the public sentiment and use their backs as whipping posts for parody?
I'm suspecting the powers that be couldn't resist some snide reference. My hope would be playing it straight (no pun intended) as much as possible and just letting their universe be what it is. Kilmer is my man in terms of the Schumacherverse. Health issues aside, it would make more sense for Clooney to be present if they're still fighting crime years after B&R, rather than before the events of that film.
I think one reason to believe that a visit to the Schumacherverse will be done tastefully is because Schumacher so recently died.
Also, I've read that the jab at Schumacher in the BTAS episode "Legends Of The Dark Knight" caused a major league crap storm behind the scenes. Apparently, heads rolled over that. I'm honestly surprised that brief scene has not been retroactively cancelled.
You know what? I actually feel the same. And maybe part of it is the undeniable reality of Keaton,which eases my mind enough to say...I miss Val. The Gotham Knight of 12 years ago is dead. I wish it were Val and not George only because I think Val was more present. Hope something can be arranged. I hoper Earth-95 is out there!
Leslie Grace has been cast as Batgirl. I'm posting this news here, since it has some bearing on Bat-Keaton's future and it's possible she might appear in The Flash.
https://deadline.com/2021/07/batgirl-leslie-grace-lands-role-in-warner-bros-dc-film-1234797608/
Representation matters, except when it comes to gingers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlU_MGnGgNE
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu, 22 Jul 2021, 22:24
Leslie Grace has been cast as Batgirl. I'm posting this news here, since it has some bearing on Bat-Keaton's future and it's possible she might appear in The Flash.
https://deadline.com/2021/07/batgirl-leslie-grace-lands-role-in-warner-bros-dc-film-1234797608/
Representation matters, except when it comes to gingers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlU_MGnGgNE
I was called istophobe for pointing this out years ago. And as a redhead, I have skin (or hair anyway) in this game.
What an underwhelming, predictable choice with 'best person for the job' being the company line. Can't deny my enthusiasm has dropped. I want Poison Ivy in live action again, but that now comes with a big risk. A beautiful, obvious choice redhead like Jessica Chatstain would be overlooked for someone who ticks other predetermined boxes. When you start pandering you can't help but ignore other groups. So just cast for comic accuracy.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 22 Jul 2021, 23:54
What an underwhelming, predictable choice with 'best person for the job' being the company line. Can't deny my enthusiasm has dropped. I want Poison Ivy in live action again, but that now comes with a big risk. A beautiful, obvious choice redhead like Jessica Chatstain would be overlooked for someone who ticks other predetermined boxes. When you start pandering you can't help but ignore other groups. So just cast for comic accuracy.
Strange how the "best person for the job" is always someone who looks nothing like the character.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 23 Jul 2021, 01:25
Strange how the "best person for the job" is always someone who looks nothing like the character.
Just like the black Superman project, this is only a PR stunt in a desperate attempt to discredit any discrimination accusations. "See, we can't be racist like Ray Fisher and Ice Cube say we are, we cast POC actors in superhero roles! Please don't think we're weaponising representation to make ourselves look good".
Expect Toxic WB to continue doubling down with such stunts.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Thu, 22 Jul 2021, 22:12
You know what? I actually feel the same. And maybe part of it is the undeniable reality of Keaton,which eases my mind enough to say...I miss Val. The Gotham Knight of 12 years ago is dead. I wish it were Val and not George only because I think Val was more present. Hope something can be arranged. I hoper Earth-95 is out there!
Back to this. The Keaton timeline now officially ignores the Schumacherverse. But I don't see why the Schumacherverse should be erased. It would be good to know those incarnations are still out there fighting the good fight in another timeline. Unfortunately I don't call the shots, but closing a potential revenue stream would be unwise. Just as nostalgia exists for Burton, a degree still exists for Schumacher. A quick cameo would do wonders.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 22 Jul 2021, 23:26
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu, 22 Jul 2021, 22:24
Leslie Grace has been cast as Batgirl. I'm posting this news here, since it has some bearing on Bat-Keaton's future and it's possible she might appear in The Flash.
https://deadline.com/2021/07/batgirl-leslie-grace-lands-role-in-warner-bros-dc-film-1234797608/
Representation matters, except when it comes to gingers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlU_MGnGgNE
I was called istophobe for pointing this out years ago. And as a redhead, I have skin (or hair anyway) in this game.
Yup. The Hollywood erasure of gingers is most definitely a thing (as the video Silver posted illustrates numerous examples). That's for sure.
As far as the other Batmen go from the 1995-1997 era, I was one of those that grew up wanting to believe that the Batman from 1989-1997 was the same Batman. Despite the role having three different actors. Kinda like James Bond of course, and this line of thinking carried over well into my adulthood, but over the past, I don't know, 5-8 or so years, I've slowly come around to the notion of Keaton's Batman indeed being
separate from what later followed. Course, it's official nowadays, but I'm glad I slowly started to get more open to the idea over the years, as I might have had some
slight mixed feelings. Mainly due to my long standing initial sentiment, but it's actually my preference now.
I kinda view the differences between, shall we say, Earth-89 and Earth-95, as somewhat akin to the differences between Pre-Crisis Earth-Two, and Post-Infinite Crisis Earth-2. Similar in many respects (such as history and individuals being very familiar), but with some noticeable differences as well. For instance, I'm cool with the murderer of the Wayne's on Earth-95 being Joe Chill, but if it's Jack Napier, just as it was on Earth-89, that's cool too. Which apparently was in the cards for real at one point back in the days of "Triumphant/Unchained" being planned with a possible Jack Nicholson Joker cameo discussed.
Like Miyagi said; "Different, but same."
With Val, I wonder if it's really a "hard no"? It's understandable if he actually came in and donned the suit, and just didn't like how he came across, but with CG these days, I have to believe that there's more than enough footage in being able to deep fake. Hell, why not put his son in the BatVal costume, who can also provide the voice (as Silver has suggested), and CG his father's face over his own? I kinda think Val would probably get a kick seeing his son playing him as Batman. Essentially briefly reprising his portrayal of Batman. Even if it's just a small scene, those of us who were there and
remember, seeing BatVal and Chris O'Donnell again would be like bringing us back to the summer of 1995 right then and there.
Huge grain of salt. Rumors of Keaton's deal have surfaced again. It is being reiterated that, including Flash, Keaton has signed for 3 films. "Small scale Batgirl" movie and an as of yet unknown picture are next. The check is said to be fat.
More on the Schumacher thing. TDK is right. The Picture LTD social media post is unquestionably Batman and Robin. Also, it should be noted that the idea of Bat verse was teased in the not watched enough DC Fandom trailer. Schumacher literally got 2 universes out of the deal.
If Val Kilmer is out and (I am 100% sure) Clooney is a No. They could get the Onstar Batman. He would be 100% welcomed since he's not only more of a Schumacher Batman, but he drove the 89 Batmobile :D
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/pB58NYPYcy8/maxresdefault.jpg)
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Sat, 24 Jul 2021, 22:40
If Val Kilmer is out and (I am 100% sure) Clooney is a No.
I go by gut feel and probability and try to avoid the trap of certainty. Clooney isn't my favorite Batman and in the past I've probably said I wish his casting didn't even happen. But I'm not against him coming back. He was a key player in the Schumacherverse, and if Val isn't available the next choice is obvious. I'm hoping there's a cameo of some kind because I'm wanting certain B&R merchandise released. An appearance of some kind in The Flash can help supercharge the past.
Batffleck in Glasgow.
(https://i.imgur.com/4kF9ugk.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/tI7w3Re.jpeg)
(https://preview.redd.it/vs5y8y2rxjd71.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=4b6a9c98b3abb83d3f69209b2f0a8ca9c83aea26)
(https://preview.redd.it/nrnh1l5dyfd71.jpg?width=481&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dbccb7988e0ed0b8fa00adbccc456d101b95c924)
What a welcome surprise. For the longest time I had the impression Ben would probably appear as civilian Bruce and that's about it. But these photos put that thinking to bed. The role could still be minimal, but we're getting more than expected. Perhaps we open the film with an action sequence in the pure DCEU before things change forever? In any case, that cycle is a beast. It resembles his Batmobile just fine. We've seen just about everything with Batfleck apart from a boat.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Mon, 26 Jul 2021, 13:36(https://i.imgur.com/tI7w3Re.jpeg)
(https://preview.redd.it/vs5y8y2rxjd71.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=4b6a9c98b3abb83d3f69209b2f0a8ca9c83aea26)
That Batcycle looks awesome. It's got a James Cameron/Colonial Marine vibe that blends well with his armour.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Mon, 26 Jul 2021, 13:36(https://preview.redd.it/nrnh1l5dyfd71.jpg?width=481&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dbccb7988e0ed0b8fa00adbccc456d101b95c924)
This right here is our first hint of an actual comic villain appearing in the movie. I know it might just be an Easter egg in the background, but it would be really cool to see Batfleck go up against Maxie Zeus. He's a villain that's never appeared in live action before now, and the lightning motif would connect with the Flash. Maybe Flash and Batfleck team up to take Zeus down during the opening sequence.
Mikey Sutton claimed that Batfleck would appear again in costume a few weeks ago, and shared this POTENTIAL SPOILER in the video below.
https://youtu.be/a3xK1uB4_1E
Hmmmm. Bullsh*t...or not?
It looks a lot like a concept bike that someone did with a Dodge Viper engine many years ago.
(https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.n66Vped9ceGVzRLk1sQ_MgHaKQ?pid=ImgDet&rs=1)
Grain of salt scoop again.
The villain in this scoop is said to be...
...The Flash, or more specifically Earth-89 Flash (played by Miller) who is trying to kill all other Flashes and I'm also hearing that Batffleck may survive.
Some more pics. Apparently they were filming a chase scene.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E7Oy2wVXIAUtV0B?format=jpg&name=900x900)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E7OwHLtWQAgus9X?format=jpg&name=900x900)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E7OpVeZWUAIrbJD?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E7OpVeaWYAEzuhU?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E7OpVfXXoBcBxt9?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E7OpVkgWYAIaQRH?format=jpg&name=large)
Here are some storyboards. If only we could magnify these...
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E7OyeY5WYAMsZxg?format=jpg&name=large)
I think we're going to be seeing our first pic of Bat-Keaton any day now. I'd rather it was an official image than a set pic like these, but I suppose that's up to WB.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Mon, 26 Jul 2021, 16:12
Grain of salt scoop again.
The villain in this scoop is said to be...
...The Flash, or more specifically Earth-89 Flash (played by Miller) who is trying to kill all other Flashes and I'm also hearing that Batffleck may survive.
A fan theory I've heard – and it is just a fan theory – is that Barry himself might somehow become Reverse Flash. The studio has failed to lay the necessary groundwork for Eobard Thawne and his rivalry with the Flash, which is the foundation of the Flashpoint storyline. At this stage, having an alternate version of Barry take his place in the narrative might be their best option.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1419598057335832576
Video of Motorcycle.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Mon, 26 Jul 2021, 16:12
Grain of salt scoop again.
The villain in this scoop is said to be...
...The Flash, or more specifically Earth-89 Flash (played by Miller) who is trying to kill all other Flashes and I'm also hearing that Batffleck may survive.
I'm hoping so. The dream would be getting an emotional conclusion for Batfleck while keeping him (and the possibility of further stories) alive. WB cut the cord on Snyder's original plan, which included Batman eventually sacrificing himself. We'll see just how reluctant the studio are to kill Batman. Having a replacement lined up shouldn't matter, because to the viewing public Batman is Batman, and in the multiverse every incarnation is important.
I was excited with Keaton's presence. But these new photos are the icing on the cake.
(https://i.ibb.co/FHLj3YQ/D1831554-8-FBA-4662-9444-38-F51-F73201-D.gif)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E7RoYI8XMAA3PKQ?format=jpg&name=medium)
If the newly revealed Keatoncycle appeared in life action that would probably be my overall pick. But I really like this. I looked at the original concept art for the Batfleckcycle, and The Flash design is better. I prefer the heavy duty weight of what we see here, and generally think it better reflects the established Batfleck aesthetic. A big example being the protruding rear of the seat evoking the low fins of the Batfleckmobile. The front wheels are enclosed which is a smart tactical choice. We've got some cannons on the side too, which are absolutely essential. I prefer this to the bare bones Batpod as it's befitting of an established Batman. I also like what we've seen with the Pattinsoncycle.
With shields.
(https://preview.redd.it/fufgtjrzord71.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=2dee9666e8dec601937ee1f08d1ec6fe6f097964)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E7UA4-XXsAEyw8l?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E7UA4-aX0AA6tiy?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E7UA5z7XEAcGQxc?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E7UZH9mXMAE-G4F?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E7UZH9lWUAMgEQ8?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E7UYb0dXMAAikDI?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E7UYb0cXEAAWFxX?format=jpg&name=large)
And some Batfleck fan art.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E7UK9U6WQAcC7qp?format=jpg&name=large)
A Youtuber has claimed Batfleck and Keaton team up in the finale. They also claim to know who the mystery character is. Clooney could appear very briefly but I'd like the main meal to be Chris O'Donnell. One, it would allow Batfleck and Keaton to reflect upon their own boy wonders. Batfleck's was killed, and who knows what happens to Wayans.
Two, it allows three of the main eras to mingle at one time. Bale's Batman is very much a self contained thing, so his absence wouldn't be jarring. Affleck is the incumbent in a transition film, so he has to be there. Apart from that the focus is on the original timeline. Three, Chris is the mainstay of both Schumacher films and the fans like him. I certainly see the upsides here.
J.K. Simmons is back as Gordon in Batgirl. If you're an Affleck fan looks like you'll be getting your wish. If you're a Keaton fan, well poo.
(https://i.redd.it/st8ilprdw6e71.jpg)
Flash costume on set. CG crazy.
https://www.superherohype.com/movies/502046-the-flash-pauses-filming-after-crewmember-suffers-an-injury-on-set
The Flash Pauses Filming After Crewmember Suffers an Injury On Set
Warner Bros.' long-gestating The Flash standalone feature recently moved production over to Scotland. And for the last few days, the streets of Glasgow have been standing in for Gotham City, with several passersby capturing photos of Ben Affleck's Batman (or one of his stunt doubles) riding around on his spiffy new Batcycle. Unfortunately, there's just been an accident on the set.
According to GlasgowLive, the filmmakers were shooting a scene on Renfield Street when a cameraman riding his own motorbike crashed into the Batcycle from behind. Witnesses say the camera operator "went under" the Batcycle following the collision. Crew members subsequently called an ambulance and he was immediately taken to the hospital. There haven't been any updates about the cameraman's condition since then. However, filming has been temporarily halted as a result of this latest mishap.
After a series of delays, The Flash finally began production in the U.K. back in April. Andy Muschietti (It) is directing the movie from a screenplay by Birds of Prey and Bumblebee writer Christina Hodson. Ezra Miller is reprising his role as Barry Allen from prior DCEU entries. Additionally, the film will present its own version of the iconic Flashpoint storyline, with Barry visiting alternate realities. Aside from Affleck, The Flash will also feature the long-awaited return of Michael Keaton as Bruce Wayne from Tim Burton's Batman films. Sasha Calle is making her big-screen debut as Supergirl as well.
The Flash will hit theaters on November 4, 2022.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Thu, 29 Jul 2021, 18:35
J.K. Simmons is back as Gordon in Batgirl. If you're an Affleck fan looks like you'll be getting your wish. If you're a Keaton fan, well poo.
Fingers crossed he gets the role, because there was talk of recasting. Hingle's Gordon would've died by now, so I don't see this as a disappointment to Keaton fans. Keaton is entering the DCEU, so he's bound to inherit different things. Keeping Simmons around makes the most sense to me.
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Thu, 29 Jul 2021, 19:02
https://www.superherohype.com/movies/502046-the-flash-pauses-filming-after-crewmember-suffers-an-injury-on-set
The Flash Pauses Filming After Crewmember Suffers an Injury On Set
Warner Bros.' long-gestating The Flash standalone feature recently moved production over to Scotland. And for the last few days, the streets of Glasgow have been standing in for Gotham City, with several passersby capturing photos of Ben Affleck's Batman (or one of his stunt doubles) riding around on his spiffy new Batcycle. Unfortunately, there's just been an accident on the set.
According to GlasgowLive, the filmmakers were shooting a scene on Renfield Street when a cameraman riding his own motorbike crashed into the Batcycle from behind. Witnesses say the camera operator "went under" the Batcycle following the collision. Crew members subsequently called an ambulance and he was immediately taken to the hospital. There haven't been any updates about the cameraman's condition since then. However, filming has been temporarily halted as a result of this latest mishap.
After a series of delays, The Flash finally began production in the U.K. back in April. Andy Muschietti (It) is directing the movie from a screenplay by Birds of Prey and Bumblebee writer Christina Hodson. Ezra Miller is reprising his role as Barry Allen from prior DCEU entries. Additionally, the film will present its own version of the iconic Flashpoint storyline, with Barry visiting alternate realities. Aside from Affleck, The Flash will also feature the long-awaited return of Michael Keaton as Bruce Wayne from Tim Burton's Batman films. Sasha Calle is making her big-screen debut as Supergirl as well.
The Flash will hit theaters on November 4, 2022.
Filming will resume, the cameraman survived without suffering any major injuries. I'm very glad to hear he's alright, I saw some photos taken from the accident online , and the situation looked very frantic. Luckily they avoided a horrible tragedy.
https://twitter.com/FlashFilmNews/status/1421090764923318281
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Fri, 30 Jul 2021, 13:19
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Thu, 29 Jul 2021, 19:02
https://www.superherohype.com/movies/502046-the-flash-pauses-filming-after-crewmember-suffers-an-injury-on-set
The Flash Pauses Filming After Crewmember Suffers an Injury On Set
Warner Bros.' long-gestating The Flash standalone feature recently moved production over to Scotland. And for the last few days, the streets of Glasgow have been standing in for Gotham City, with several passersby capturing photos of Ben Affleck's Batman (or one of his stunt doubles) riding around on his spiffy new Batcycle. Unfortunately, there's just been an accident on the set.
According to GlasgowLive, the filmmakers were shooting a scene on Renfield Street when a cameraman riding his own motorbike crashed into the Batcycle from behind. Witnesses say the camera operator "went under" the Batcycle following the collision. Crew members subsequently called an ambulance and he was immediately taken to the hospital. There haven't been any updates about the cameraman's condition since then. However, filming has been temporarily halted as a result of this latest mishap.
After a series of delays, The Flash finally began production in the U.K. back in April. Andy Muschietti (It) is directing the movie from a screenplay by Birds of Prey and Bumblebee writer Christina Hodson. Ezra Miller is reprising his role as Barry Allen from prior DCEU entries. Additionally, the film will present its own version of the iconic Flashpoint storyline, with Barry visiting alternate realities. Aside from Affleck, The Flash will also feature the long-awaited return of Michael Keaton as Bruce Wayne from Tim Burton's Batman films. Sasha Calle is making her big-screen debut as Supergirl as well.
The Flash will hit theaters on November 4, 2022.
Filming will resume, the cameraman survived without suffering any major injuries. I'm very glad to hear he's alright, I saw some photos taken from the accident online , and the situation looked very frantic. Luckily they avoided a horrible tragedy.
https://twitter.com/FlashFilmNews/status/1421090764923318281
Glad to hear it. When the accident was described, "he went under" was the quote, I was very afraid that there would be a fatality.
fantastic news! I am so glad he's ok
What does everyone's guess on the first official Keaton Batman pic will be.
I think it'll be similar to this one
(https://www.thepropgallery.com/media/wysiwyg/batmnan-keaton.jpg)
Superman (not seen) is in the movie
(https://preview.redd.it/shd6o1f8wze71.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=fc29ea51b3fa36dbaa5b87383cb96fbf56742fc0)
Just realized that due to the Burton/Schumacher split, they both share the same Alfred and Gordon (who have both actors since passed away). I'd guess they're sister or cousin universes now?
This guy's tweets were all ripped down by WB. He has confirmed in a now deleted post that Henry Cavill is in the movie.
Well, he just said "Superman".
Or was he more specific about Cavil?
Quote from: Travesty on Tue, 3 Aug 2021, 13:49
Well, he just said "Superman".
Or was he more specific about Cavil?
Check out the screenshot of the deleted tweet on the 3:57 mark.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MA_Z1zt1Go
Quote from: Travesty on Tue, 3 Aug 2021, 13:49
Well, he just said "Superman".
Or was he more specific about Cavil?
He specified later that it was Cavil, and then deleted the tweet before WB could get to it.
Nice
Quote from: Travesty on Tue, 3 Aug 2021, 14:48
Nice
ViewerAnon, who has a track record of solid information, tweeted "two different people, both whom I trust, have sworn to me that Henry Cavill is in THE FLASH." This is being shot down with reports saying Cavill isn't contracted. When you add in the other tweet, I'm still willing to side with Anon here. Perhaps the studio can burn through two cameos (The Flash and Black Adam) and then decide his future - if it hasn't been decided already.
Anon also said "I heard around the time Keaton's involvement broke [June 2020] that Affleck dies in the first act." And "It's hard to know what's what as films develop but I'd always heard he dies as Batman." If it's his time to go, I'd like it to be for something and not of something. Make it heartfelt. A farewell scene involving Batfleck and Superman would be worthy.
Talk on Reddit pondered if Batfleck's death is the spur for Barry to change history along with his mother's death. Anon says the plot could have changed since (as it was suspected Affleck would only appear as Bruce), so who knows?
So many crazy rumours about this damn movie. If we're lead to believe this rumour, there is a villain in The Flash, and he is an evil Barry Allen...from the Burtonverse.
https://youtu.be/Yw9bFLeNFZ4
Why not just have Eobard Thawne as the villain instead?
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Wed, 4 Aug 2021, 02:06
So many crazy rumours about this damn movie. If we're lead to believe this rumour, there is a villain in The Flash, and he is an evil Barry Allen...from the Burtonverse.
https://youtu.be/Yw9bFLeNFZ4
Why not just have Eobard Thawne as the villain instead?
Heard that, and this morning it is being said again that Miller is playing an evil Barry native to Earth-89 and that this version will be a reflection of Barry's own state of mind and his mental troubles.
Also, it should be noted that Grace Randolph has fallen from...grace ...as a source and her revelations should be treated as suspect from here on.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Wed, 4 Aug 2021, 02:06
Why not just have Eobard Thawne as the villain instead?
Yeah....kinda odd if they do an "evil Flash" instead of Reverse Flash.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Wed, 4 Aug 2021, 14:16Also, it should be noted that Grace Randolph has fallen from...grace ...as a source and her revelations should be treated as suspect from here on.
Details?
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 4 Aug 2021, 19:40
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Wed, 4 Aug 2021, 14:16Also, it should be noted that Grace Randolph has fallen from...grace ...as a source and her revelations should be treated as suspect from here on.
Details?
Apparently there is a laundry list of her being wrong beginning to accumulate, so much so that likes of James Gunn even called her out. It has called into question what connections she has, if any.
Personally, I smelled something rotten from the get go and don't mind saying that I always thought she was full of it and was suspicious of her the moment she rose to prominence.
Then again, this agitation aimed at her from the community may only be that she has insisted that Cavil is NOT in the Flash and has tried to stomp on all these new reports that he is. Could be no more than an overzealous fan base eager for Cavil to come back.
Honestly its probably the latter, but I always found her obnoxious so...
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Wed, 4 Aug 2021, 20:02
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 4 Aug 2021, 19:40
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Wed, 4 Aug 2021, 14:16Also, it should be noted that Grace Randolph has fallen from...grace ...as a source and her revelations should be treated as suspect from here on.
Details?
Apparently there is a laundry list of her being wrong beginning to accumulate, so much so that likes of James Gunn even called her out. It has called into question what connections she has, if any.
Personally, I smelled something rotten from the get go and don't mind saying that I always thought she was full of it and was suspicious of her the moment she rose to prominence.
Then again, this agitation aimed at her from the community may only be that she has insisted that Cavil is NOT in the Flash and has tried to stomp on all these new reports that he is. Could be no more than an overzealous fan base eager for Cavil to come back.
Honestly its probably the latter, but I always found her obnoxious so...
Ah. Same basic thing happened (or is happening) to Victor Van Doomcock on YouTube. Apparently, all of his TROS spoiler reports were stolen from 4chan or something.
I said from the jump that Grace Randolph's voice aggravates tf out of me. I'm sure she's a nice person, don't get me wrong. But she's unbearable. If it turns out she's been lying this whole time... well, that's actually good news for me since her YouTube "career" will probably be finished.
Quote from: Travesty on Wed, 4 Aug 2021, 14:24
Yeah....kinda odd if they do an "evil Flash" instead of Reverse Flash.
Especially so since the "Set up" for Reverse-Flash is literally already there. As Barry's father being in prison, is a direct result of Reverse-Flash's actions. Per
Flash Rebirth, which then cumulated in
Flashpoint.
Yeah, this wasn't originally the case for Nora Allen, but it's what DC goes with now, and I'm sure it'll be the same for the DCEU's Flash for the foreseeable future. Similar to Wonder Woman being the daughter of Zeus (which wasn't a thing until Nu52 in 2011). Evidently, they feel some sort of need to hold off on Prof Zoom for the time being for whatever reason, but it's kinda jarring thinking about the Burtonverse birthing a metahuman along the lines of a speedster like the Flash. I always liked to think the Burtonverse Earth was a bit more grounded than say the Snyderverse Earth, but oh well. As Batman and Penguin once said, "Things Change."
Quote from: The Joker on Thu, 5 Aug 2021, 03:25
Quote from: Travesty on Wed, 4 Aug 2021, 14:24
Yeah....kinda odd if they do an "evil Flash" instead of Reverse Flash.
Especially so since the "Set up" for Reverse-Flash is literally already there. As Barry's father being in prison, is a direct result of Reverse-Flash's actions. Per Flash Rebirth, which then cumulated in Flashpoint.
Yeah, this wasn't originally the case for Nora Allen, but it's what DC goes with now, and I'm sure it'll be the same for the DCEU's Flash for the foreseeable future. Similar to Wonder Woman being the daughter of Zeus (which wasn't a thing until Nu52 in 2011). Evidently, they feel some sort of need to hold off on Prof Zoom for the time being for whatever reason, but it's kinda jarring thinking about the Burtonverse birthing a metahuman along the lines of a speedster like the Flash. I always liked to think the Burtonverse Earth was a bit more grounded than say the Snyderverse Earth, but oh well. As Batman and Penguin once said, "Things Change."
As a kid, I always made my "head canon" that the Burtonverse and the 90s Flash TV show were in the same universe. :)
Quote from: Travesty on Thu, 5 Aug 2021, 15:21
As a kid, I always made my "head canon" that the Burtonverse and the 90s Flash TV show were in the same universe. :)
;D It would have been amusing having the hitman Captain Cold from the 90's Flash tv show, making a reference of having been in Gotham in the past. Perhaps something like, "Yeah, I did a few jobs in Gotham for Carl Grissom. There was usually another guy that worked for him present. Napier, I believe."
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 4 Aug 2021, 20:25
I said from the jump that Grace Randolph's voice aggravates tf out of me. I'm sure she's a nice person, don't get me wrong. But she's unbearable. If it turns out she's been lying this whole time... well, that's actually good news for me since her YouTube "career" will probably be finished.
From what I can tell, she appears to have personal grudges against some actors, such as Henry Cavill and Jessica Chastain. I don't care about Chastain because I remember her liking a tweet complaining about the Amazons' costumes in JL being supposedly sexist or some crap, but Randolph constantly spreads gossip about Cavill being difficult to work with. I wouldn't be surprised if Cavill really is a diva (Hollywood over inflates egos after all), but she is too insufferable to be taken seriously.
But as annoying as Randolph might be, at least she has not deceived anybody in the name of "charity", like LightCast did when his JL Motion Comic project was exposed to have traced over Jim Lee's art, despite promising the artwork would be original. These YouTubers really are bottom feeders.
Quote from: The Joker on Thu, 5 Aug 2021, 20:51
Quote from: Travesty on Thu, 5 Aug 2021, 15:21
As a kid, I always made my "head canon" that the Burtonverse and the 90s Flash TV show were in the same universe. :)
;D It would have been amusing having the hitman Captain Cold from the 90's Flash tv show, making a reference of having been in Gotham in the past. Perhaps something like, "Yeah, I did a few jobs in Gotham for Carl Grissom. There was usually another guy that worked for him present. Napier, I believe."
For this to work, they'd have to ignore the B89 movie Easter egg in one of their episodes. ;D
(https://themiddlespaces.files.wordpress.com/2021/01/flash-poster-batman.jpg?w=625&h=448p)
Quote from: The Joker on Thu, 5 Aug 2021, 03:25
Evidently, they feel some sort of need to hold off on Prof Zoom for the time being for whatever reason, but it's kinda jarring thinking about the Burtonverse birthing a metahuman along the lines of a speedster like the Flash. I always liked to think the Burtonverse Earth was a bit more grounded than say the Snyderverse Earth, but oh well. As Batman and Penguin once said, "Things Change."
In addition to Evil Barry Allen, another rumour I've heard is Supergirl is from the Burtonverse too. If I remember correctly in the leaked DC FanDome video, there was concept art of Keaton's Batman and Flash breaking into a facility, where they encounter a character who looks like Supergirl. If they are taking elements of Flashpoint, this could mean Supergirl would be introduced as a Cadmus lab prisoner, as Superman was, and Keaton's Batman is the equivalent to Thomas Wayne as he helps her escape.
Quote from: Travesty on Thu, 5 Aug 2021, 15:21As a kid, I always made my "head canon" that the Burtonverse and the 90s Flash TV show were in the same universe. :)
My headcanon went that The Flash show, Lois & Clark's third season and Batman Forever were all the same universe. That's the hill I choose to die on.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 7 Aug 2021, 14:23
For this to work, they'd have to ignore the B89 movie Easter egg in one of their episodes. ;D
(https://themiddlespaces.files.wordpress.com/2021/01/flash-poster-batman.jpg?w=625&h=448p)
That's easy. Go meta. Go Sam Hamm Batman Returns Draft with it. Not only is merchandise being sold of the caped crusader, there's even a movie based on his exploits as well.
Course it would differ from the Batman 1989 movie
we know, considering Batman's identity would remain unknown during this time frame and all that jazz, but that's the fun part. :D
Quote
In addition to Evil Barry Allen, another rumour I've heard is Supergirl is from the Burtonverse too. If I remember correctly in the leaked DC FanDome video, there was concept art of Keaton's Batman and Flash breaking into a facility, where they encounter a character who looks like Supergirl. If they are taking elements of Flashpoint, this could mean Supergirl would be introduced as a Cadmus lab prisoner, as Superman was, and Keaton's Batman is the equivalent to Thomas Wayne as he helps her escape.
Hmmm. Ok. Things changed alright.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E8V2hIQXEAADcgc?format=jpg&name=small)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E8V2hIQXIAQ6e1j?format=jpg&name=small)
Set photos.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E8XsUBoXsAUMEtB?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E8XsUBoWQA0C9Dd?format=jpg&name=medium)
QuoteJust asked Michael Keaton what it was like putting the Batman suit back on & what memories he's pulling from Tim Burton's films that he's utilizing in THE FLASH?
First part of his answer: "Like riding a bike!"
Posting full interview later. We talked for THE PROTEGE & WORTH.
https://twitter.com/KevinMcCarthyTV/status/1425168891987251203
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2ncyj9N-pU
Video of the interview.
(https://preview.redd.it/m8mwms4fvzg71.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=dea423616828b38ddfd7ffeb83bca05f6bf7bce5)
https://www.superherohype.com/movies/503183-micheal-keaton-didnt-initially-understand-batman-and-vultures-return
Micheal Keaton Didn't Initially Understand How Batman and Vulture Return
Next year, Michael Keaton is appearing two comic book movies, The Flash and Morbius, as Batman/Bruce Wayne and Vulture/Adrian Toomes. However, the veteran of Batman and Batman Returns has admitted that he didn't fully understand the multiversal explanation behind both of his big screen returns.
In a new profile by The Hollywood Reporter, Keaton confirmed that his Vulture in Morbius is the same character he played in Spider-Man: Homecoming. Regardless, Keaton was confused by the explanation that he was given for reappearance.
"I'm nodding like I know what the f*** they're talking about. I go, 'Uh-huh.' And I'm thinking, 'You may as well be explaining quantum physics right now to me. All I know is I just know my guy. And I know the basics,'" related Keaton. "So finally, they were looking at me, and they just started laughing. They said, 'You don't know what we're talking about, do you?' I said, 'No, I don't, no idea what you're talking about.' "
Keaton also admitted that he didn't initially comprehend the concept of the multiverse in The Flash. However, he did have a desire to revisit his role as Batman.
"Frankly, in the back of my head, I always thought, 'I bet I could go back and nail that motherfu**er,' " said Keaton "And so I thought, 'Well, now that they're asking me, let me see if I can pull that off.'... I had to read [the script] more than three times to go, 'Wait, how does this work?' They had to explain that to me several times."
"By the way, I'm not being arrogant, I hope, about this. I don't say it like, 'I'm too groovy,' added Keaton. "I'm stupid. There's a lot of things I don't know about. And so, I don't know, I just kind of figured it out, but this was different. What's really interesting is how much more I got [Batman] when I went back and did him. I get this on a whole other level now. I totally respect it. I respect what people are trying to make."
Keaton also said that he "never looked at it like, 'Oh, this is just a silly thing.' It was not a silly thing when I did Batman. But it has become a giant thing, culturally. It's iconic. So I have even more respect for it because what do I know? This is a big deal in the world to people. You've got to honor that and be respectful of that. Even I go, 'Jesus, this is huge.' "
Over the years, Keaton hasn't made much of a secret out of wanting Batman back. So, I wouldn't say this is a big revelation.
Still, I want to believe that he sandbagged the story about the Vulture for comedic effect. Because the idea of parallel universes has existed in fiction (and the general lexicon) for decades (if not longer) so it surprises me that he apparently doesn't grasp the concept.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-features/michael-keaton-on-reviving-batman-the-protege-worth-dopestick-1234998480/
according to Hollywood Reporter, keatons done filming his scenes for Flash
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 18 Aug 2021, 19:55
Still, I want to believe that he sandbagged the story about the Vulture for comedic effect. Because the idea of parallel universes has existed in fiction (and the general lexicon) for decades (if not longer) so it surprises me that he apparently doesn't grasp the concept.
He probably has a general idea but doesn't have any serious interest in comics or their storytelling devices. Like Romero, he probably just needs to know his lines and his character's motivation. I'm well versed in the multiverse concept, obviously, but still had to wrap my head around the idea Keaton's universe isn't a self contained bubble which loosely continued onwards with BF and B&R. Because things have been that way for 30 years. The Flash movie changes that idea forever.
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Thu, 19 Aug 2021, 01:38
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-features/michael-keaton-on-reviving-batman-the-protege-worth-dopestick-1234998480/
according to Hollywood Reporter, keatons done filming his scenes for Flash
Hoping for the best, because it's all in the can now. Keaton seems even more comfortable with the character than ever, so I'm not doubting he's happy with the performance. Bale said he didn't completely nail the role. I don't think Keaton would ever feel that way. I think the question was more about if he could still slip back into the suit decades later and recapture the magic.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 19 Aug 2021, 01:50
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 18 Aug 2021, 19:55
Still, I want to believe that he sandbagged the story about the Vulture for comedic effect. Because the idea of parallel universes has existed in fiction (and the general lexicon) for decades (if not longer) so it surprises me that he apparently doesn't grasp the concept.
He probably has a general idea but doesn't have any serious interest in comics or their storytelling devices. Like Romero, he probably just needs to know his lines and his character's motivation. I'm well versed in the multiverse concept, obviously, but still had to wrap my head around the idea Keaton's universe isn't a self contained bubble which loosely continued onwards with BF and B&R. Because things have been that way for 30 years. The Flash movie changes that idea forever.
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Thu, 19 Aug 2021, 01:38
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-features/michael-keaton-on-reviving-batman-the-protege-worth-dopestick-1234998480/
according to Hollywood Reporter, keatons done filming his scenes for Flash
Hoping for the best, because it's all in the can now. Keaton seems even more comfortable with the character than ever, so I'm not doubting he's happy with the performance. Bale said he didn't completely nail the role. I don't think Keaton would ever feel that way. I think the question was more about if he could still slip back into the suit decades later and recapture the magic.
It's interesting because in Returns he was worried about becoming a parody of what he did in 89 but then he had his "aha" moment and got right back in. It seems he did not have that here, granted it does seem like there is nostalgia tied to the suit, which is very much a Dark Knight Returns.
Since he is done filming I wonder if we'll get a reveal soon (granted I'd love it they'd keep him quiet until the film comes out but I am 100% sure that will not happen.
Really surprised we've only had a handful of Bruce Wayne pictures and some Batcave pictures leaked but none of Batman. I wonder if much of his stuff was filmed on a soundstage. The Glasgow loccation for Gotham is now clearly used for Affleck (he hasn't filmed his scenes yet apparently?) but that makes me wonder if Burtons Gotham will be CG and light set peices on a sound stage?
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Thu, 19 Aug 2021, 14:57
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 19 Aug 2021, 01:50
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 18 Aug 2021, 19:55
Still, I want to believe that he sandbagged the story about the Vulture for comedic effect. Because the idea of parallel universes has existed in fiction (and the general lexicon) for decades (if not longer) so it surprises me that he apparently doesn't grasp the concept.
He probably has a general idea but doesn't have any serious interest in comics or their storytelling devices. Like Romero, he probably just needs to know his lines and his character's motivation. I'm well versed in the multiverse concept, obviously, but still had to wrap my head around the idea Keaton's universe isn't a self contained bubble which loosely continued onwards with BF and B&R. Because things have been that way for 30 years. The Flash movie changes that idea forever.
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Thu, 19 Aug 2021, 01:38
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-features/michael-keaton-on-reviving-batman-the-protege-worth-dopestick-1234998480/
according to Hollywood Reporter, keatons done filming his scenes for Flash
Hoping for the best, because it's all in the can now. Keaton seems even more comfortable with the character than ever, so I'm not doubting he's happy with the performance. Bale said he didn't completely nail the role. I don't think Keaton would ever feel that way. I think the question was more about if he could still slip back into the suit decades later and recapture the magic.
It's interesting because in Returns he was worried about becoming a parody of what he did in 89 but then he had his "aha" moment and got right back in. It seems he did not have that here, granted it does seem like there is nostalgia tied to the suit, which is very much a Dark Knight Returns.
Since he is done filming I wonder if we'll get a reveal soon (granted I'd love it they'd keep him quiet until the film comes out but I am 100% sure that will not happen.
Really surprised we've only had a handful of Bruce Wayne pictures and some Batcave pictures leaked but none of Batman. I wonder if much of his stuff was filmed on a soundstage. The Glasgow loccation for Gotham is now clearly used for Affleck (he hasn't filmed his scenes yet apparently?) but that makes me wonder if Burtons Gotham will be CG and light set peices on a sound stage?
I suspect you'll get a little something at Fandom considering the original segment leaked. It will probably not be very much, maybe a single photo that reveals Bruce in a professional promo. I say that because I think WB is going to be very keen not spoil us with too much Keaton as Matt Reeves' The Batman is being touted as the main attraction. Too much Keaton will steal the thunder and undermine this project which is still being considered the prime Batman real estate moving forward.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Thu, 19 Aug 2021, 18:33
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Thu, 19 Aug 2021, 14:57
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 19 Aug 2021, 01:50
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 18 Aug 2021, 19:55
Still, I want to believe that he sandbagged the story about the Vulture for comedic effect. Because the idea of parallel universes has existed in fiction (and the general lexicon) for decades (if not longer) so it surprises me that he apparently doesn't grasp the concept.
He probably has a general idea but doesn't have any serious interest in comics or their storytelling devices. Like Romero, he probably just needs to know his lines and his character's motivation. I'm well versed in the multiverse concept, obviously, but still had to wrap my head around the idea Keaton's universe isn't a self contained bubble which loosely continued onwards with BF and B&R. Because things have been that way for 30 years. The Flash movie changes that idea forever.
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Thu, 19 Aug 2021, 01:38
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-features/michael-keaton-on-reviving-batman-the-protege-worth-dopestick-1234998480/
according to Hollywood Reporter, keatons done filming his scenes for Flash
Hoping for the best, because it's all in the can now. Keaton seems even more comfortable with the character than ever, so I'm not doubting he's happy with the performance. Bale said he didn't completely nail the role. I don't think Keaton would ever feel that way. I think the question was more about if he could still slip back into the suit decades later and recapture the magic.
It's interesting because in Returns he was worried about becoming a parody of what he did in 89 but then he had his "aha" moment and got right back in. It seems he did not have that here, granted it does seem like there is nostalgia tied to the suit, which is very much a Dark Knight Returns.
Since he is done filming I wonder if we'll get a reveal soon (granted I'd love it they'd keep him quiet until the film comes out but I am 100% sure that will not happen.
Really surprised we've only had a handful of Bruce Wayne pictures and some Batcave pictures leaked but none of Batman. I wonder if much of his stuff was filmed on a soundstage. The Glasgow loccation for Gotham is now clearly used for Affleck (he hasn't filmed his scenes yet apparently?) but that makes me wonder if Burtons Gotham will be CG and light set peices on a sound stage?
I suspect you'll get a little something at Fandom considering the original segment leaked. It will probably not be very much, maybe a single photo that reveals Bruce in a professional promo. I say that because I think WB is going to be very keen not spoil us with too much Keaton as Matt Reeves' The Batman is being touted as the main attraction. Too much Keaton will steal the thunder and undermine this project which is still being considered the prime Batman real estate moving forward.
Do hope you're right! Thats the perfect balance and I don't want too much Keaton revelas before the movie comes out
Keaton expresses satisfaction with his introductory scene, and mentions a Burton influence. It may have been Silver who guessed it could involve Barry walking into the cave, which has strong B89 influences, and noticing the Burtonmobile sitting there. Some kind of surprise reveal, sneaking up on Barry or activating a security measure, would be grand.
It's hard to know just how much Keaton has filmed when we have nothing to go on. I'd have to imagine it's worthwhile. If he shares the screen with another Batman he's already done so. Apparently Affleck starts filming in September, so that itself raises questions. ViewerAnon claims Ben isn't in the film much and "he's basically doing it as a gift to fans so he doesn't just vanish before Keaton takes over in the DCEU." The Batcycle content has already been filmed, which didn't require Ben, and would only require closeups.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 19 Aug 2021, 22:42
Keaton expresses satisfaction with his introductory scene, and mentions a Burton influence. It may have been Silver who guessed it could involve Barry walking into the cave, which has strong B89 influences, and noticing the Burtonmobile sitting there. Some kind of surprise reveal, sneaking up on Barry or activating a security measure, would be grand.
It's hard to know just how much Keaton has filmed when we have nothing to go on. I'd have to imagine it's worthwhile. If he shares the screen with another Batman he's already done so. Apparently Affleck starts filming in September, so that itself raises questions. ViewerAnon claims Ben isn't in the film much and "he's basically doing it as a gift to fans so he doesn't just vanish before Keaton takes over in the DCEU." The Batcycle content has already been filmed, which didn't require Ben, and would only require closeups.
That reminds me of Suicide Squad (ironically the early leaks being a Batman chase) which was also all a double. There's also a rumor that he's writing more stuff to include his Batman in (though that seems like a rumor). I'm justing interested if Keaton (and or Affleck) will obsorb Cyborgs dialogue/plot points.
A rumor is making the rounds that claims that Rudy Mancuso is Doctor Alchemy, which resurrects an older rumor about the villains being made mostly up of second tier people and that Mirror Master 2 (daughter of original who was a Keaton villain) is among them. It appears that these metas will be lead by evil Barry or are associated with evil Barry via universe because this older rumor previously asserted that these characters would all be native to Earth-89, and that we are seeing where Earth-89 is 30 years down the lane.
Black Flash continues to float around in the mill. Black Flash and a gender bent Mirror Master were some of the earliest confirmed villains. Black Flash was in at least two of the former drafts that were officially confirmed to be real.
If numerous 2nd tier villains are going to be appearing in this, it would be nice, for the sakes of continuity within the Burtonverse, that these villains, at the very least, visually look a bit Burtonesque in their costumes.
Yes, it's decades since BR, and I expect the Burtonverse Gotham City to look a little different 30 years later, but having that visual Burton aesthetic continue and be represented in costumes (other than Batman) would be a nice sentiment.
If true, its interesting how '89 Universe is the "evil" one. I assume (if following flashpoint) its because their Super(wo)man has been locked up?
Also, this will mark Keaton as the "longest-running" live-action Batman (story-wise) since Afflecks been Batman a good 10 years less now.
Will be interesting to see how he's kept up as Batman and how he adapts to metas
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Fri, 20 Aug 2021, 16:04
Also, this will mark Keaton as the "longest-running" live-action Batman (story-wise) since Afflecks been Batman a good 10 years less now.
Will be interesting to see how he's kept up as Batman and how he adapts to metas
True, and also this would mean that Keaton's Batman, if even just semi-active, has extended further out, age wise, than even the DCAU Batman. Who was probably in his late 50's/early 60's when he decided to hang up the cowl.
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Fri, 20 Aug 2021, 16:04
If true, its interesting how '89 Universe is the "evil" one. I assume (if following flashpoint) its because their Super(wo)man has been locked up?
Also, this will mark Keaton as the "longest-running" live-action Batman (story-wise) since Afflecks been Batman a good 10 years less now.
Will be interesting to see how he's kept up as Batman and how he adapts to metas
Storywise, Affleck's Batman had been active for twenty years, as he reveals in BvS. But yes, in terms of longevity, Keaton would've had over thirty years worth of experience. Maybe even longer, depending how far this movie takes place in his universe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqRmP8XQwPM
Interesting note is that Dwayne Johnson appears and says, "Things will never be the same again." There is am immediate cut to the Flash/KeatonBat team up conceptual. This is a definite tease that the multiverse will be a staple going forward, though it could be easily read as a tease for the future of Keaton's Batman.
Quote
The Flash movie is "complex" with a "massive" scale, says cinematographer Henry Braham — but the Justice League spin-off is "not really a comic book movie." The DC Comics adaptation, reuniting Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice and Justice League co-stars Ezra Miller as the Flash and Ben Affleck as Batman, is Braham's latest after shooting the James Gunn-directed The Suicide Squad. Ahead of the new movie racing into theaters in November 2022, Braham updates The Flash and explains why director Andy Muschietti's brave and bold spin-off isn't a "superhero movie":
"[The Flash is] going great. I mean, it's a complex movie, and it's a fantastic concept of bringing in the generations of these kind of comic books," Braham told Collider, adding the blockbuster comic book adaptation is "not really a comic book movie."
"It's not based in reality, but it's a much more kind of technically complex — I think all the filmmakers are really keen that the technical complexity of the storytelling doesn't get in the way of just good quality filmmaking," said Braham, whose credits include The Legend of Tarzan and Marvel's Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2. "Hopefully, I don't think it'll ever come across as a superhero movie. It will come across as a movie, and that's what it is. I think that's the way these things need to go. We need to be making great, great, great films that happen to have superheroes who have truthful characters behind them, with all the character flaws that we find in humanity."
Michael Keaton's Batman returns alongside fellow DC Extended Universe newcomer Sasha Calle, who plays Superman's Kryptonian cousin Supergirl.
"It's a pleasure working with the cast, as they're fantastic. Michael, of course, is a genius, and it's wonderful to see him recreate that role but in the present day. It's wonderful," Braham said of Keaton's 30-years-later Batman comeback. "I think the movie has a massive scope, and I'm lucky to be able to work on movies I'd like to go and see. I'm not really interested in comic book movies. I'm interested in movies that take me on a journey, an emotional journey, and a visual journey."
The Flash features top-shelf visual effects supervised by John "DJ" Desjardin (Zack Snyder's Justice League, Godzilla vs. Kong), but for Braham, combining the technological side with the storytelling side "can be beautiful, and it can be emotional."
Braham added: "On the one hand, you have the kind of technical thing of when, what, and how. But it's like all filmmaking, it's about kind figuring out an idea so that you don't really think about it. You don't think, 'Oh.' It becomes a natural part of the storytelling, so yeah. It's fairly enjoyable, and fun to do."
https://web.archive.org/web/20210828204917/https://comicbook.com/movies/news/the-flash-cinematographer-complex-massive-scope-not-really-comic-book-movie-henry-braham/
The problem is there are rumours still persisting that Keaton and Miller will suffer from dumb screwball comedy that make them look foolish. And make no mistake, Warner Butchers will want to continue emulating that MCU formula. I predict The Flash will be a tonal mess.
Here's a pretty good fan trailer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wf_srpUhERI
It occurs to me watching Worth (2021) that it is actually very easy to make Keaton not look 70, even when that isn't even really the goal. You basically warm him up and put some hair on him and he's basically 55. Very possible they are shaving some years off for the Flash.
Speaking of Keaton's age, I've just realised that he would have been the same age at the time of filming The Flash as Jack Palance was when he shot Batman '89. Both actors were 69 at the time of filming, but had passed 70 by time the film was released. In Keaton's case, he just turned 70 two days ago and he'll be 71 when The Flash finally comes out. By then he might already have shot another DC movie (most likely Batgirl).
Rumour has it that Andres Muschietti loved ZSJL and made changes to the script to make his film tie in more closely to the Snyderverse. Martian Manhunter is another character rumoured to appear, but nobody knows if Harry Lennix will reprise the role.
https://youtu.be/mUYNpu6OOto?t=246
But until we get assurance this is really the case, take everything with a huge grain of salt.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_uqrvwXsAEeVxG?format=jpg&name=medium)
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Mon, 20 Sep 2021, 14:08
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_uqrvwXsAEeVxG?format=jpg&name=medium)
While a lot of people are theorizing that this is confirmation of an appearance by the Earth 52 Batman (Red Death), I believe this is only a nod to that. What I think has happened is Barry needs a Flash suit, so he borrows the old Returns costume and hastily re purposes it as a Flash costume. I think it kicks ass.
I'm not sure what it means? They did say Barry will get a new suit from Batman, so maybe Batman just loaned him a Batsuit and he colored over it?
Quote from: Travesty on Mon, 20 Sep 2021, 17:03
I'm not sure what it means? They did say Barry will get a new suit from Batman, so maybe Batman just loaned him a Batsuit and he colored over it?
Seems like a good guess. A more practical and believable thing to do, especially if time is of the essence.
It is being reported that Ben Affleck shot his scenes in less than a week.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Mon, 20 Sep 2021, 23:11
Seems like a good guess. A more practical and believable thing to do, especially if time is of the essence.
Also, I like the visual metaphor of blending those two universes together.
Personally, I never needed Keaton's Batman to interact with the rest of the DC Universe. But since it's happening anyway, yeah, I'm enjoying it.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Wed, 22 Sep 2021, 13:50
It is being reported that Ben Affleck shot his scenes in less than a week.
And with that, Affleck's time in the role could very well be over. My hopes for a continuation of some kind on HBO Max have cratered. ZSJL popularity obviously didn't matter. Unless there's a surprise announcement in the coming weeks or months, it seems the plan was set in stone. Release the Snyder cut, label it a trilogy and move on from there.
The latest rumors I'm hearing assert that Earth-89 is indeed the universe that Barry is visiting and that Supergirl is a native of the Burton-verse. It is being reported that HBO MAX is developing a Supergirl show for Sasha Calle (which was at first supposed to be a film) and that this show will serve as a prequel to the Flash. Michael Keaton is supposed to appear.
This might actually be good news for you Affleck gits. This seems to indicate that while these characters are getting a spotlight, it might not mean they are rewriting the DCEU, just visiting other verses. Which is something DC does anyway IE Titans and Doom Patrol.
What exactly are we seeing here?
Because historically, The Company Formerly Known As WB didn't like having competing versions of the same character going up against each other. The Company Formerly Known As WB had some involvement in the "Bruce Wayne prequel show" mutating into Smallville. Their fear was that a TV show like that might be unwanted competition from the movie franchise they were attempting to relaunch.
TCFKAWB's fears were arguably justified when Superman Returns premiered and Smallville's core fanbase either ignored or actively opposed it while SR's fanbase rebelled against Smallville.
And yet, what we're seeing now is multiple Batmen and multiple other characters too, possibly.
With the Reevesverse, it looks to me like the play is developing a sort of "shared universe" around Batman. A space for the Penguin, a space for Gordon/GCPD, etc. Presumably, the Reevesverse will only expand from there. This camp seems to be positioning their version of the Batman as a standalone character in his own immaculate universe similar to Nolan.
And yet, now there's a competing Batman (arguably two if Affleck still counts) (and who even knows anymore?) that could have his own big screen thing going on. This camp seems to be positioning their version of Batman as a character in a multiverse populated with numerous other DC heroes.
If I didn't know better, I'd think there's some sort of internecine conflict going on between at least two competing camps in this new business empire, whatever it's even called anymore. They don't seem to be on the same page, they don't seem to have the same goals and they don't seem very friendly toward one another.
And we're not even counting the "Phillipverse" and the still possible JOKER sequel that might be coming along, which is probably it's own challenge.
Am I misreading this? Or does there seem to be two sides here and each side is determined to p!$$ in the other side's cornflakes?
Seems to me it's all about the Affleck situation. A solo Batman movie was planned, but then for a variety of reasons Ben didn't factor in to it. With Batman as a big bankable property the studio didn't waste any time in moving ahead with someone new. In the meantime leaving the overall DCEU plans vague before they decided what to do. Thus the two filmic universes were created.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 24 Sep 2021, 19:06
What exactly are we seeing here?
Because historically, The Company Formerly Known As WB didn't like having competing versions of the same character going up against each other. The Company Formerly Known As WB had some involvement in the "Bruce Wayne prequel show" mutating into Smallville. Their fear was that a TV show like that might be unwanted competition from the movie franchise they were attempting to relaunch.
TCFKAWB's fears were arguably justified when Superman Returns premiered and Smallville's core fanbase either ignored or actively opposed it while SR's fanbase rebelled against Smallville.
Let's not forget about the Justice League Mortal movie getting scrapped right at the last minute back in the late 2000s. Among many other reasons, I've heard a rumour Nolan didn't want another Batman competing with his own take.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 24 Sep 2021, 19:06
And yet, what we're seeing now is multiple Batmen and multiple other characters too, possibly.
With the Reevesverse, it looks to me like the play is developing a sort of "shared universe" around Batman. A space for the Penguin, a space for Gordon/GCPD, etc. Presumably, the Reevesverse will only expand from there. This camp seems to be positioning their version of the Batman as a standalone character in his own immaculate universe similar to Nolan.
And yet, now there's a competing Batman (arguably two if Affleck still counts) (and who even knows anymore?) that could have his own big screen thing going on. This camp seems to be positioning their version of Batman as a character in a multiverse populated with numerous other DC heroes.
If I didn't know better, I'd think there's some sort of internecine conflict going on between at least two competing camps in this new business empire, whatever it's even called anymore. They don't seem to be on the same page, they don't seem to have the same goals and they don't seem very friendly toward one another.
And we're not even counting the "Phillipverse" and the still possible JOKER sequel that might be coming along, which is probably it's own challenge.
Am I misreading this? Or does there seem to be two sides here and each side is determined to p!$$ in the other side's cornflakes?
You're definitely onto something here. My guess is the whole multiverse PR talk is based on the idea that AT&T - whether they like it or not - desperately needed more content to compete with Disney, both in the theatrical and streaming markets. I'm not convinced Warner were totally keen on doing a multiverse, unless if they could use the concept to do a complete reboot. Another rumour I've heard is the reason there are multiple Batmen right now is because the higher-ups, whether its Warner or their owners, want an "insurance policy" just in case the reboot fails.
Which brings me to this article posted only a few days ago, if we're led to believe what Mikey Sutton says:
Quote
The Flash will not be Ben Affleck's final appearance as Batman.
Other sites and YouTube channels claim that The Flash is Ben Affleck's final performance as the Dark Knight.
Moreover, Michael Keaton will apparently be the new Batman in the DCEU.
Insiders claim this is inaccurate.
First, Geekosity Editor-In-Chief Mikey Sutton initially scooped on March 26, 2021 that Ben Affleck's Batman would perish in The Flash.
At the time, Warner Bros. wanted to erase the Snyderverse.
Ben Affleck would be the sacrificial figure a la The Flash or Supergirl in 1986's landmark Crisis on Infinite Earths comic book.
In his update on July 19, 2021, he revealed that had changed. But why?
A source explained:
QuoteKilling off Ben Affleck in The Flash takes the focus away from Ezra Miller and Michael Keaton's Batman. This isn't Endgame. It's not Affleck's story. His death would need to be the heart of the movie.
Moreover, another source added that:
QuoteIt would create the worst PR backlash in DC Films' history after the success of Zack Snyder's Justice League.
In addition, Keaton's not wearing the costume again after The Flash.
He will proceed as Bruce Wayne, the mentor figure in the live-action Batman Beyond.
https://geekositymag.com/ben-afflecks-batman-wont-die-in-the-flash-movie/
The only reason I have faith that Affleck isn't quite finished with the role yet is because he came back to film those epilogue scenes for ZSJL. If the role was such a burden for him as many people thought, he would've turned down any more filming for those scenes, and Snyder has supported him to direct his own Batman film in an interview. Even so far asking out loud "why aren't the cameras rolling?".
FWIW, I've heard Sutton saying on a YouTube livestream that AT&T stepped in and stopped Warner from trying to kill off Batfleck and the rest of the Snyderverse. But what confuses me is if AT&T really sees the potential in continuing with the Snyderverse and Batfleck's standalone project, why do they let Emmerich and co get away with their shenanigans surrounding ZSJL? The current regime don't care about the backlash over their lack of marketing for ZSJL, and they certainly don't give a sh*t when they fired Ray Fisher from The Flash. So why does AT&T allow the studio to continue on with this despicable behaviour? The only logicial explanation I can think of is the company realised that WB - as a whole - is more trouble than they're worth, and sold the company off to Discovery to recuperate the debts they accumulated over the last three years.
BTW, another rumour I've read is confidence surrounding The Flash is suddenly very high and they want it to be the beginning of a trilogy. I'm not so sure how they can be so confident when they're blowing their load by making the first movie explore the multiverse, but that's the word going around at the moment.
As for Keaton? A part of me doubts his Batman would be returning right now if Keaton never made his spectacular career comeback seven years ago. Now that he's a big name actor again and enjoyed a career all-time high with the acclaim he has achieved since, Warner must've wanted his Batman to return for the following factors: the nostalgia factor, and Ezra Miller isn't an A-List star. Beyond that, I don't believe Keaton is going to be a long-term replacement for Affleck. At his age and whatever else he wants to do in his career, I suspect he will only want to play an older Bruce Wayne in Batman Beyond, and nothing more.
But time will tell if whether or any not any of these rumours are true.
The Supergirl HBOMAX series has been debunked. No project is currently in development.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Wed, 29 Sep 2021, 18:52
The Supergirl HBOMAX series has been debunked. No project is currently in development.
I really don't care about any Supergirl show, so I'm glad that rumor seems to be knocked on the head with a sledgehammer. For now. But I have to question the longevity of HBO Max as a platform. I'm on board with the GCPD and Penguin projects, especially if The Batman matches the hype. But honestly, I'm thinking one-off movies may have been a better idea. At the core, I don't think streaming is the glorious, undeniable future people sell it to be. I'm not convinced simultaneous release schedules are a good idea. Cinema box office results are exceeding expectations at the moment. If there isn't adequate uptake on HBO subscriptions we could be looking at a big disappointment. The hunger for the Pattinson universe seems strong though, so carry over business may be high enough to finally make the service something to justify itself.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Mon, 4 Oct 2021, 08:12I'm thinking one-off movies may have been a better idea
Welcome to my world.
Whatever the content was he shot, Affleck had a good time.
"It was a really nice way to revisit that as the prior experience had been difficult. This was really lovely. Really fun."
https://variety.com/2021/film/news/ben-affleck-batman-the-flash-justice-league-1235080171/
Michael Keaton Says His Batman Suit Still Fits 30 Years Later: 'Svelte as Ever'
https://people.com/style/michael-keaton-says-his-batman-suit-still-fits-30-years-later/
Andy Muschietti's teased a surprise for The Flash panel on Saturday: https://twitter.com/i/status/1448334020044066817
Any bets on what it might be? A look at Keaton in costume? A trailer? Confirmation of Michelle Pfeiffer or Billy Dee Williams making an appearance?
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu, 14 Oct 2021, 17:56
Andy Muschietti's teased a surprise for The Flash panel on Saturday: https://twitter.com/i/status/1448334020044066817
Any bets on what it might be? A look at Keaton in costume? A trailer? Confirmation of Michelle Pfeiffer or Billy Dee Williams making an appearance?
It might be cool if it's a brief ten second clip that somehow involves Keaton.
Have to keep reminding myself that Keaton isn't headlining this thing. Because I could give a crap about anything else in this movie. I'm here for Keaton.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 14 Oct 2021, 18:50
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu, 14 Oct 2021, 17:56
Andy Muschietti's teased a surprise for The Flash panel on Saturday: https://twitter.com/i/status/1448334020044066817
Any bets on what it might be? A look at Keaton in costume? A trailer? Confirmation of Michelle Pfeiffer or Billy Dee Williams making an appearance?
It might be cool if it's a brief ten second clip that somehow involves Keaton.
Have to keep reminding myself that Keaton isn't headlining this thing. Because I could give a crap about anything else in this movie. I'm here for Keaton.
I'd take a suit-up monage, perhaps him and the flash.
I know we're getting a version of the video that leaked awhile back. You will remember the concept art montage and interviews. I'm thinking we'll get an official photo of Michael Keaton in character and maybe a special appearance at the panel? Hard to guess as next year, if there is a Fandome, The Flash will take center stage. That's where the real sizzle is coming. Besides, The Batman is being screened and I hear it's getting multiple standing ovations. The Batman has to have it's day. Too much Keaton and you ruin it, unless you play off the fact that Keaton and Pattinson were both offbeat casting choices that ended up shutting down idiot fanboys.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 14 Oct 2021, 18:50
Have to keep reminding myself that Keaton isn't headlining this thing. Because I could give a crap about anything else in this movie. I'm here for Keaton.
I heard rumours that Henry Cavill, Michael Shannon and Antje Trauje will reprise their Superman, Zod and Faora roles respectively. But I reckon the rumours are bogus regarding Shannon and Trauje. Cavill? I suppose it's possible.
Unless things change, I'm still not willing to support The Flash, even with Keaton's involvement. One thing for sure is I'm definitely not supporting any of Warner's "standing ovation" reboots, they can take them and shove it.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu, 14 Oct 2021, 17:56
Andy Muschietti's teased a surprise for The Flash panel on Saturday: https://twitter.com/i/status/1448334020044066817
Any bets on what it might be? A look at Keaton in costume? A trailer? Confirmation of Michelle Pfeiffer or Billy Dee Williams making an appearance?
I'm hoping to see Keaton in the new suit, even if it's something brief. I'm unsure about Michelle or Billy Dee making an appearance, but if it gets announced I'll be all over it.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 14 Oct 2021, 18:50
It might be cool if it's a brief ten second clip that somehow involves Keaton.
Have to keep reminding myself that Keaton isn't headlining this thing. Because I could give a crap about anything else in this movie. I'm here for Keaton.
Same here. The Flash fan in me is already disappointed with the direction they're going, but Keaton's involvement has me hyped beyond measure. It's a weird feeling, having little confidence in the quality of the movie but still being insanely excited to see it. I'm just hoping for some satisfying Burtonverse action and an ending that paves the way for Batman Beyond.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Fri, 15 Oct 2021, 00:30
I know we're getting a version of the video that leaked awhile back. You will remember the concept art montage and interviews. I'm thinking we'll get an official photo of Michael Keaton in character and maybe a special appearance at the panel? Hard to guess as next year, if there is a Fandome, The Flash will take center stage. That's where the real sizzle is coming. Besides, The Batman is being screened and I hear it's getting multiple standing ovations. The Batman has to have it's day. Too much Keaton and you ruin it, unless you play off the fact that Keaton and Pattinson were both offbeat casting choices that ended up shutting down idiot fanboys.
I hope you're right about the photo of Keaton. A few months ago I incorrectly predicted that we'd be getting our first look at him in the suit back in summer. I was clearly wrong about that, but I still think it makes sense for WB to release a promo shot sooner rather than later. They can't keep his new costume under wraps until the 2022 release date. An image is bound to leak online before then, so they might as well take control of the situation and release one during the FanDome panel.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Fri, 15 Oct 2021, 00:30
Besides, The Batman is being screened and I hear it's getting multiple standing ovations. The Batman has to have it's day.
I'm probably more hyped for The Batman right now in terms of a pure Batman experience, especially after what ViewerAnon tweeted. Pattinson wearing the suit for the majority of the screen time, having little interest in being Bruce, and narrating the entire film from a journal.
This is stuff I've been wanting to see.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Mon, 11 Feb 2019, 11:18
But that said, how about a film that reduces the Bruce Wayne aspect for one film of a trilogy? I'm talking about something like Arkham Asylum, where Bruce is in the suit all the time. He's locked into a situation and is in character until the City is saved. Something like that is pure comic book, and hasn't been done before in the franchise. Perhaps that may suit a second film better once the new man has been established.
The fact we're getting Keaton
and Affleck is gravy. In any other circumstance we'd just be getting one Batman at a time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK-F2rsNeIk
He speaks!
That was a cool tease, I just wish we saw a little bit more of Batman, but that was definitely cool.
"Are you in?"
Or... R-U-N.
Not sure if that's deliberate or what. But thought I'd mention it anyway.
Nice little tease.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Dw4dP1sF/flash-batman.gif)
Here's the spray painted Batsuit Barry makes into his own.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FB19o5WXoAMCzKQ?format=jpg&name=medium)
Very excited! Thought they would show Keaton's Batman full on though. They may be saving it for the full trailer though.
After seeing that teaser, I am literally smiling ear to ear right now.
Keaton's voice and the B89 music instantly takes me back to a more innocent time in my life. It's like he never left.
Quote from: The Joker on Sat, 16 Oct 2021, 20:19
After seeing that teaser, I am literally smiling ear to ear right now.
Absolutely.
Today was a good day.
The Batmobile is covered up, which raises questions. Perhaps Keaton still fights crime, but the car hasn't been used for a while, and he's focused on other methods. Drones like Kingdom Come have been bandied about. When he's asked "are you in?" it could be his first real return to the streets.
Aside from Keaton's narration and the tease of the cowl...meh.
I noticed the music is similar to CW's Flash theme. Not feeling it.
I was hoping that stupid graffitied BR suit with the Flash symbol sprayed on it was some misguided marketing promotion. Instead, it's another version of Barry Allen. Disappointing.
I forgot to mention: judging by the covering up of the Batmobile and Keaton's Batman being asked if he's in, I would not be surprised if the movie subverts expectations by establishing he had retired for quite some time. Sounds pretty cliche, and I hope that is not the case.
Quote from: BatmanFurst on Sat, 16 Oct 2021, 19:30
Very excited! Thought they would show Keaton's Batman full on though. They may be saving it for the full trailer though.
I'm okay with what we received. A tease makes sense right now, with The Batman approaching in five months or so.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 16 Oct 2021, 20:45
Keaton's voice and the B89 music instantly takes me back to a more innocent time in my life. It's like he never left.
Dude, hearing Elfman's cue for the Batcave instantly got me excited!
Quote from: BatmanFurst on Sun, 17 Oct 2021, 01:47
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 16 Oct 2021, 20:45
Keaton's voice and the B89 music instantly takes me back to a more innocent time in my life. It's like he never left.
Dude, hearing Elfman's cue for the Batcave instantly got me excited!
Absolutely. Fingers crossed Elfman's music is used in the film, because it instantly sets the mood for this Batman. I'll take a guess and say the shot we see of Batman will follow with the team boarding the aircraft, flying outside through the waterfall.
Quote from: Travesty on Sat, 16 Oct 2021, 19:27
Here's the spray painted Batsuit Barry makes into his own.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FB19o5WXoAMCzKQ?format=jpg&name=medium)
I really don't like how they spray painted that great BR suit. Not at all. They didn't even remove the bat insignia. I realise it's supposed to be a makeshift costume, but this is lazy.
Not keen on the new Flash cowl either. Somebody compared it to Shaquielle O'Neal's Steel mask. The cowl would look a little better if they take off those cheek overalls.
I am assuming this is supposed to be this staircase?
(https://i.postimg.cc/hPZtZ3Cp/vlcsnap-2021-10-16-22h21m33s542.png)
(https://i.postimg.cc/fR3TGjpZ/vlcsnap-2021-10-16-22h24m59s629.png)
Also :D
(https://i.postimg.cc/50J4Fc0N/vlcsnap-2021-10-16-22h21m43s185.png)
(https://i.postimg.cc/kgkXqRPS/vlcsnap-2021-10-16-22h26m01s047.png)
The front of Keatons Cowl(?)
(https://i.postimg.cc/xCP0vsJG/vlcsnap-2021-10-16-22h22m09s389.png)
The one thing I don't like is the amount of natural sunlight
(https://i.postimg.cc/fbmWLWMr/vlcsnap-2021-10-16-22h22m42s590.png)
(https://i.postimg.cc/GthbqkGW/vlcsnap-2021-10-16-22h23m00s634.png)
(https://i.postimg.cc/3wB69z1w/vlcsnap-2021-10-16-22h31m10s900.png)
Doenst appear to be the returns suit the boots appear to more leathery and the returns suit didnt have the shoulder pads. So it woud appear to be a 2.0 suit. Also... the batcomputer behind them!
Great comparisons there. I do believe that's the B89 Manor staircase, and that's definitely the lighting lever. The natural light will be something to get used to, considering the previous two Burton caves. But all in all, I like how things look.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sun, 17 Oct 2021, 02:35
Great comparisons there. I do believe that's the B89 Manor staircase, and that's definitely the lighting lever. The natural light will be something to get used to, considering the previous two Burton caves. But all in all, I like how things look.
Was trying to find a good shot of the Hatfield House staircase but it seems my memory merged it with the forever one lol
Now I'm wondering whats up with the bloody batcowl! :O There are other peices of suit behind him
My guess....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0kB_W_g_4U
This could also give keaton the "meditation to become batman" that he really wanted to do
Edit:
The post alfred covered furnature may be a nod to Batman Beyond
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5c/16/ce/5c16cefd3fb78af5323eb7dd5c1a4c13.png)
What I find I interesting about the bloody cowl is the scenery. The sunlight is super warm, while the rest of the stuff we see in and around Wayne Manor is very blue and gloom. Is it possible that the bloody cowl scene takes place in the past? Is this scene meant to represent the last time he was Batman?
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Sun, 17 Oct 2021, 04:05
What I find I interesting about the bloody cowl is the scenery. The sunlight is super warm, while the rest of the stuff we see in and around Wayne Manor is very blue and gloom. Is it possible that the bloody cowl scene takes place in the past? Is this scene meant to represent the last time he was Batman?
Could be. The bloodied bat logo image that was shared not long ago instantly comes to mind, so it's definitely a plot point of some kind and not random. Keaton's Bruce living alone in the silent Manor is haunting, but so appropriate. If he retired at some point I'm now wondering how long it's been. In any case, he's going to suit up again and hopefully show them all how it's done.
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Sun, 17 Oct 2021, 02:44
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sun, 17 Oct 2021, 02:35
Great comparisons there. I do believe that's the B89 Manor staircase, and that's definitely the lighting lever. The natural light will be something to get used to, considering the previous two Burton caves. But all in all, I like how things look.
Was trying to find a good shot of the Hatfield House staircase but it seems my memory merged it with the forever one lol
Now I'm wondering whats up with the bloody batcowl! :O There are other peices of suit behind him
My guess....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0kB_W_g_4U
This could also give keaton the "meditation to become batman" that he really wanted to do
Edit:
The post alfred covered furnature may be a nod to Batman Beyond
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5c/16/ce/5c16cefd3fb78af5323eb7dd5c1a4c13.png)
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Sun, 17 Oct 2021, 04:05
What I find I interesting about the bloody cowl is the scenery. The sunlight is super warm, while the rest of the stuff we see in and around Wayne Manor is very blue and gloom. Is it possible that the bloody cowl scene takes place in the past? Is this scene meant to represent the last time he was Batman?
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sun, 17 Oct 2021, 11:41
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Sun, 17 Oct 2021, 04:05
What I find I interesting about the bloody cowl is the scenery. The sunlight is super warm, while the rest of the stuff we see in and around Wayne Manor is very blue and gloom. Is it possible that the bloody cowl scene takes place in the past? Is this scene meant to represent the last time he was Batman?
Could be. The bloodied bat logo image that was shared not long ago instantly comes to mind, so it's definitely a plot point of some kind and not random. Keaton's Bruce living alone in the silent Manor is haunting, but so appropriate. If he retired at some point I'm now wondering how long it's been. In any case, he's going to suit up again and hopefully show them all how it's done.
The warmer colour temperature of the cinematography does suggest a different time period from the other scenes. The shot of the bloody discarded costume is the most intriguing part of the teaser for me. Which villain could have messed the Burton Batman up so bad that he'd just discard his bloody costume on the floor like that? Bane? Two-Face? The Mutant Gang Leader? Did this incident inspire him to hang up the cowl?
Or maybe this scene takes place following his showdown with the Penguin at Gotham Zoo, immediately after Batman Returns, and the blood is from where Catwoman slashed his face.
Or maybe eledoremassis02 is correct and it's a nod to the scene from The Dark Knight Returns. This movie is the closest thing we'll get to a Burtonverse version of TDKR. So far the depiction of Batman looks more like TDKR than Kingdom or Batman Beyond, with the aging Bruce donning his classic armour – and possibly coming out of retirement – for one last crusade. If it's not a flashback then this scene could take place after Bruce tries helping Barry and ends up getting injured. He then realises that since he's dealing with metahumans, he needs to step up his game. So he returns to stately Wayne Manor, casts off his old costume and upgrades to the Kingdom Come armour, kind of like how the TDKR Batman switched to the mech suit when dealing with Superman.
Or it could be a reference to the prologue of Batman Beyond, where Bruce realised it was time to hang up the cowl after suffering a heart attack. Perhaps this is the night his age caught up with him and he realised his limits.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun, 17 Oct 2021, 19:19
The warmer colour temperature of the cinematography does suggest a different time period from the other scenes. The shot of the bloody discarded costume is the most intriguing part of the teaser for me. Which villain could have messed the Burton Batman up so bad that he'd just discard his bloody costume on the floor like that? Bane? Two-Face? The Mutant Gang Leader? Did this incident inspire him to hang up the cowl?
Or it could be a reference to the prologue of Batman Beyond, where Bruce realised it was time to hang up the cowl after suffering a heart attack. Perhaps this is the night his age caught up with him and he realised his limits.
It could be anything but I'm going with something like this. The Batmobile is covered with a sheet, so they'll have to explain why. A flashback to his last night out, with Keaton then overcoming his doubts to suit up again, would be very inspirational. If he accepts the situation is that dire in terms of timeline trouble, I can see him heading back out there.
A rumor circling is Keaton's Batman is injured the first time Barry meets him and it is mentioned that he has become more reckless now that Alfred has past.
Here is a nice sketch of an older Keaton Batman by Jerry Ordway.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FCqve0ZWEAYxCFV?format=jpg)
https://twitter.com/matthewttodd/status/1453166781011484677
Rumour has it that Joker will make a cameo. Not Jack's Joker though, it's believed to be Leto. Nicholson not making an appearance wouldn't surprise me, because he hasn't been acting for over a decade.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Thu, 28 Oct 2021, 21:27
Rumour has it that Joker will make a cameo. Not Jack's Joker though, it's believed to be Leto. Nicholson not making an appearance wouldn't surprise me, because he hasn't been acting for over a decade.
If Jack's good with it, there's a couple of ways of having his Joker appear in this movie that wouldn't actually require Jack actually being there on the set. I'm good with Leto appearing as the Joker alongside Batfleck in the Snyderverse portion(s) of the movie, but having Leto's Joker in the Burtonverse timeline is really iffy.
Quote from: The Joker on Fri, 29 Oct 2021, 16:47
If Jack's good with it, there's a couple of ways of having his Joker appear in this movie that wouldn't actually require Jack actually being there on the set.
Maybe, but that will depend if Nicholson will allow it. I remember reading he earned big money over royalties every time his likeness was used for merchandise back in the day. He might demand to be paid again.
If it's too expensive to pay Nicholson, what the hacks at WB might do is use his Joker as a headless cameo, as they did for Cavill's Superman in Shazam. Doing that could be a cheap loophole to avoid paying Nicholson.
Quote from: The Joker on Fri, 29 Oct 2021, 16:47
I'm good with Leto appearing as the Joker alongside Batfleck in the Snyderverse portion(s) of the movie, but having Leto's Joker in the Burtonverse timeline is really iffy.
Having Leto's Joker in the Burtonverse timeline would make as much sense as having JK Simmons' Gordon living in the same timeline. Which doesn't at all.
If Leto appears, this
could give credibility to the rumour that Muschietti loved ZSJL and wants to explore the Snyderverse as much as possible. But then again, it's rumoured the new Supergirl and the second Barry Allen live in the Burton universe too.
What are the odds they try to make Leto a new Joker in the Burtonverse? This reminds me of this other rumour I heard earlier this year that the studio wanted Leto's Joker back for Batman Beyond. I don't believe it's true.
All due respect to everyone. But Nicholson is 84 and seems to have retired. The gossip is that he still gets great offers even after ten years of inactivity... which says a lot about how large his legend looms in that industry even today. Point being that he obviously hasn't accepted any of those offers. On that basis, I can't see why he'd want to accept a Joker thing either.
The guy's net worth is something like $400 million too. So, I don't think he'd be motivated by money.
I think we need to let this one go.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 30 Oct 2021, 00:33
Maybe, but that will depend if Nicholson will allow it. I remember reading he earned big money over royalties every time his likeness was used for merchandise back in the day. He might demand to be paid again.
If it's too expensive to pay Nicholson, what the hacks at WB might do is use his Joker as a headless cameo, as they did for Cavill's Superman in Shazam. Doing that could be a cheap loophole to avoid paying Nicholson.
I believe Jack even gets royalties from any sequels following B89 as well. Not sure if this extends out with the Nolan films, and beyond, but it was an incredible deal that he made with Warners back then. For sure.
Jack's good friend, Danny Devito, even recalled that pretty much the only bit of advice he gave Danny about signing on to "Batman Returns" was, "Try and get my deal." :D
Quote from: The Joker on Fri, 29 Oct 2021, 16:47
Having Leto's Joker in the Burtonverse timeline would make as much sense as having JK Simmons' Gordon living in the same timeline. Which doesn't at all.
Pretty much.
QuoteIf Leto appears, this could give credibility to the rumour that Muschietti loved ZSJL and wants to explore the Snyderverse as much as possible.
That would be the preferred notion for Leto's Joker. Yeah.
QuoteWhat are the odds they try to make Leto a new Joker in the Burtonverse? This reminds me of this other rumour I heard earlier this year that the studio wanted Leto's Joker back for Batman Beyond. I don't believe it's true.
That would be the mother of ClusterF's to be perfectly honest. I can think of a way where Leto's Joker could be included in making an appearance within the Burtonverse, but it would be rather dismissive, and I'd rather not that route not be taken. Especially if the Snyderverse is going to carry on as one of the DCEU Earth's that could be revisited at any time. Burtonverse as it's earth. Snyderverse has it's earth. Reeves/Pattison's The Batman has their Earth-2. ect.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 30 Oct 2021, 01:48
All due respect to everyone. But Nicholson is 84 and seems to have retired. The gossip is that he still gets great offers even after ten years of inactivity... which says a lot about how large his legend looms in that industry even today. Point being that he obviously hasn't accepted any of those offers. On that basis, I can't see why he'd want to accept a Joker thing either.
The guy's net worth is something like $400 million too. So, I don't think he'd be motivated by money.
I think we need to let this one go.
Maybe I wasn't entirely clear, but what I was getting at, was the notion of Jack Nicholson's Joker returning for a quick cameo, wouldn't require him having to actually come on the set as a actor, or even
act in any capacity to be perfectly honest. It would be more of a 'permission of likeness' situation. Deepfake, or perhaps something similar with how Donald Pleasence/Dr. Loomis' cameo was handled in "Halloween Kills".
Either/or could work for a cameo. Given that Jack has stated the Joker is one of his favorite roles during his career, he may very well be friendly in signing off on this type of proposal. It would essentially be like seeing his Joker extend out beyond B89, without actually having to be there to do any of the work.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 30 Oct 2021, 01:48
All due respect to everyone. But Nicholson is 84 and seems to have retired. The gossip is that he still gets great offers even after ten years of inactivity... which says a lot about how large his legend looms in that industry even today. Point being that he obviously hasn't accepted any of those offers. On that basis, I can't see why he'd want to accept a Joker thing either.
The guy's net worth is something like $400 million too. So, I don't think he'd be motivated by money.
I think we need to let this one go.
Not necessarily about this topic, but generally speaking, people don't seem to know the difference between accepting something will happen or not happen, and actually liking that thing is happening or not happening. Do I like the idea of vaccine mandates? Absolutely not. But they're happening regardless. Do I want the global elite to walk away from their agenda? Absolutely. But it's not going to happen. Some things really are that black and white.
Quote from: The Joker on Sat, 30 Oct 2021, 03:18
QuoteWhat are the odds they try to make Leto a new Joker in the Burtonverse? This reminds me of this other rumour I heard earlier this year that the studio wanted Leto's Joker back for Batman Beyond. I don't believe it's true.
That would be the mother of ClusterF's to be perfectly honest. I can think of a way where Leto's Joker could be included in making an appearance within the Burtonverse, but it would be rather dismissive, and I'd rather not that route not be taken.
It would definitely be messy, but it's not the mother of clusterf***s compared to the idea of The Flash rebooting the entire DC movie universe and Keaton replacing Affleck. That is allegedly the original intent for this movie, but depending on which scooper you ask, that's no longer the case because the script had undergone so many changes ever since production has started.
In addition to the rumour of Muschietti loving ZSJL, the rebooting of the DC universe was rumoured to be denied by AT&T because they value the Snyderverse. I find that hard to believe because they went MIA while Emmerich and co have been doing their best to sabotage ZSJL, from the marketing, to removing GL from the final cut, to ghosting Zack Snyder over how the cut performed on HBO Max, to firing Ray Fisher, to continuously giving the fans the finger ever since it came out and so on. Nonetheless, that's the rumour out there.
I don't believe Keaton replacing Affleck as the long term "DCEU" Batman will ever happen, nor does it make any sense. Not only Keaton is too old to keep playing the character on such a frequent basis, it would mean the Burtonverse would be drastically retconned too. For example, if Keaton were to appear in the new Batgirl movie alongside JK Simmons' Jim Gordon and Leslie Grace's Barbara Gordon, that would alter the events of the Batman '89 comics, because the disparity between the age and likeness of the Gordons - as well as the period of time - would make it impossible for Barbara to become a police sergeant and getting engaged to Harvey Dent. Anyone who thinks the events of those comics would remain intact and untouched is completely stupid. They would have to be either retconned or disregarded completely.
IF they were to merge Keaton into the new DC universe timeline, I'd go far and say he wouldn't be playing Tim Burton's Batman anymore, but another Batman who is from a different continuity that happens to look like Burton's Batman. The idea alone of changing Pat Hingle to Simmons as Commissioner Gordon is quite significant by itself, wouldn't you think?
The only way Keaton could enter the Batgirl and other timelines without retconning anything if he jumps from one portal to another like they did on the Arrowverse, but that would still be contrived and it's a trope that would get old very quickly.
Quote from: The Joker on Sat, 30 Oct 2021, 03:18
Especially if the Snyderverse is going to carry on as one of the DCEU Earth's that could be revisited at any time.
Nowadays, I no longer buy the whole PR talk about the multiverse. I think it's just an excuse to get away from the idea of doing a shared universe. The truth is, Warner Butchers doesn't know what the hell they're doing. Unless it involves internal sabotage, protecting abusers and petty politics.
Hell, I'll go one better by saying they're trying manipulate everyone into seeing all of their content with this multiverse talk , but not continue the one universe many want to see.
I'll say it again, if the Discovery merger doesn't involve significant changes, expect the same garbage coming out from that studio.
Quote from: The Joker on Sat, 30 Oct 2021, 03:18
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 30 Oct 2021, 01:48
All due respect to everyone. But Nicholson is 84 and seems to have retired. The gossip is that he still gets great offers even after ten years of inactivity... which says a lot about how large his legend looms in that industry even today. Point being that he obviously hasn't accepted any of those offers. On that basis, I can't see why he'd want to accept a Joker thing either.
The guy's net worth is something like $400 million too. So, I don't think he'd be motivated by money.
I think we need to let this one go.
Maybe I wasn't entirely clear, but what I was getting at, was the notion of Jack Nicholson's Joker returning for a quick cameo, wouldn't require him having to actually come on the set as a actor, or even act in any capacity to be perfectly honest. It would be more of a 'permission of likeness' situation. Deepfake, or perhaps something similar with how Donald Pleasence/Dr. Loomis' cameo was handled in "Halloween Kills".
Either/or could work for a cameo. Given that Jack has stated the Joker is one of his favorite roles during his career, he may very well be friendly in signing off on this type of proposal. It would essentially be like seeing his Joker extend out beyond B89, without actually having to be there to do any of the work.
Yeah, I thought that's what you meant as well. And given Billy Dee Williams is the same age as Nicholson, I can imagine they could do the same thing for Two-Face, if they really wanted to have another Burtonverse villain to appear as a cameo. Otherwise, I don't believe it's reasonable to expect both actors to appear. Williams might still be active than Nicholson, but it appears he mostly does voice acting in animation nowadays.
With all the gossip surrounding this production, it's really becoming a Flash movie in name only, isn't it?
Leto could work if he's established as 'The Joker II.'
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Mon, 1 Nov 2021, 01:30
It would definitely be messy, but it's not the mother of clusterf***s compared to the idea of The Flash rebooting the entire DC movie universe and Keaton replacing Affleck. That is allegedly the original intent for this movie, but depending on which scooper you ask, that's no longer the case because the script had undergone so many changes ever since production has started.
In addition to the rumour of Muschietti loving ZSJL, the rebooting of the DC universe was rumoured to be denied by AT&T because they value the Snyderverse. I find that hard to believe because they went MIA while Emmerich and co have been doing their best to sabotage ZSJL, from the marketing, to removing GL from the final cut, to ghosting Zack Snyder over how the cut performed on HBO Max, to firing Ray Fisher, to continuously giving the fans the finger ever since it came out and so on. Nonetheless, that's the rumour out there.
I don't believe Keaton replacing Affleck as the long term "DCEU" Batman will ever happen, nor does it make any sense. Not only Keaton is too old to keep playing the character on such a frequent basis, it would mean the Burtonverse would be drastically retconned too. For example, if Keaton were to appear in the new Batgirl movie alongside JK Simmons' Jim Gordon and Leslie Grace's Barbara Gordon, that would alter the events of the Batman '89 comics, because the disparity between the age and likeness of the Gordons - as well as the period of time - would make it impossible for Barbara to become a police sergeant and getting engaged to Harvey Dent. Anyone who thinks the events of those comics would remain intact and untouched is completely stupid. They would have to be either retconned or disregarded completely.
IF they were to merge Keaton into the new DC universe timeline, I'd go far and say he wouldn't be playing Tim Burton's Batman anymore, but another Batman who is from a different continuity that happens to look like Burton's Batman. The idea alone of changing Pat Hingle to Simmons as Commissioner Gordon is quite significant by itself, wouldn't you think?
The only way Keaton could enter the Batgirl and other timelines without retconning anything if he jumps from one portal to another like they did on the Arrowverse, but that would still be contrived and it's a trope that would get old very quickly.
As a Joker guy, it's kinda what-and-what with me when it comes to trying to fit a square peg into a round hole by retroactively inserting Keaton/Leto into positions that's just going to automatically cause major nonsensical/retcon/continuity problems going forth. Plus, as you suggest, doing that mucks up not only the Snyderverse, but also the Burton films as well. Which YOU WOULD THINK, would be an automatic deal breaker of an idea. We're well aware that Warners have no love for the Snyderverse, but I'm sure they have to be at least aware that fans have just as much of a love for Keaton as Batman, as they do for both Burton films as well. It's VERY much a package deal. If anything, and it's difficult to assess which scooper is on the money, and who's simply blowing smoke, but IF it is true that the plan for Keaton to retroactively replace Affleck is
NOW null and void, that's a positive in the sea of negative Warners mismanagement.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 30 Oct 2021, 03:18
Nowadays, I no longer buy the whole PR talk about the multiverse. I think it's just an excuse to get away from the idea of doing a shared universe. The truth is, Warner Butchers doesn't know what the hell they're doing. Unless it involves internal sabotage, protecting abusers and petty politics.
Hell, I'll go one better by saying they're trying manipulate everyone into seeing all of their content with this multiverse talk , but not continue the one universe many want to see.
I'll say it again, if the Discovery merger doesn't involve significant changes, expect the same garbage coming out from that studio.
It's definitely a realistic take on Warners and their predisposition for continually stepping on the rake. The multiverse concept though, is right there in front of them. DC was the first major comic book publisher to really explore the concept, and hell, you can say that CW's "Crisis on Infinite Earth's" was the dry run on a more grander cinematic "Endgame". Course, this would require some planning, and not just panic, or being reactionary on Warner's part.
QuoteYeah, I thought that's what you meant as well. And given Billy Dee Williams is the same age as Nicholson, I can imagine they could do the same thing for Two-Face, if they really wanted to have another Burtonverse villain to appear as a cameo. Otherwise, I don't believe it's reasonable to expect both actors to appear. Williams might still be active than Nicholson, but it appears he mostly does voice acting in animation nowadays.
With all the gossip surrounding this production, it's really becoming a Flash movie in name only, isn't it?
Yeah, I think it's possible to see a easter egg of Billy Dee's Two-Face on a monitor inside the Batcave. That would suffice, and might even bump up the sales of the "Batman '89" trade following movie. As I'm sure there will likely be numerous videos and headlines pointing this out if it did transpire. "Oh, Billy Dee's Harvey Dent actually
became Two-Face? I gotta check that out!" A good way to cross promote for sure. Heck, if permission is granted from Robin Williams estate, a really well done photoshopped image of Williams as the Riddler would be pretty neat. Considering just how often his name was associated with the character for literally decades (starting in '89, again in the early-mid '90's before Carrey was hired, and once again following "The Dark Knight" in 2008 when the popular assumption was that the Riddler was going to be the villain in the next Nolan Batmovie. Not to mention Williams and Nolan having already worked together prior with "Insomnia"). You could even have Barry quip upon seeing the photo, "He looks different too." Since a Snyderverse Riddler evidently already exists.
A deepfake, or cleverly done lookalike actor/merged with a voice actor that sounds A LOT like Jack, for a possible Nicholson Joker cameo would be a good way to call back to B89 as well as essentially prime the public if Warners still have any intention whatsoever on doing a Batman Beyond Return of the Joker movie.
But yeah, "The Flash" is kinda like "Spider-Man No Way Home". It's the Batman stuff that has my attention, just as it is pretty much everything outside of the mouse's version of Spider-Man that has my attention with "No Way Home".
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Mon, 1 Nov 2021, 13:55
Leto could work if he's established as 'The Joker II.'
Just what would that entail,
exactly?That Leto's the long lost son of Jack Napier?
Leto's Joker is another someone who fell into chemicals and emerged bleached white, with bleached green hair?
Leto's Joker is a overzealous fanatic, who idolizes Nicholson's Joker and wants to be essentially a copycat? The leader of the Jokerz gang?
I don't know. Any possibility just doesn't really sound all that satisfying, and I sincerely doubt Leto would have even wanted to sign on in the first place as the DCEU's Joker if he's just going to be regulated to "The Joker II". This is kinda like people theorizing Joaquin Phoenix's Joker is just the guy who just
inspired the real Joker in that universe, and Phoenix came out and basically stated, "Nope. Wrong. I'm the real Joker." To which, he's exactly right in saying.
As I made a vague reference to in a previous post, you could insert Leto into the Burtonverse as the Joker, sure, but ultimately it would be rather dismissive of him as the Joker in the Snyderverse (which I'd rather them not do), especially just for the sakes of retroactively inserting him into the Burtonverse continuity, and I don't believe there's honestly any real positives he could gain in being "The Joker II" as he would be, even more so, compared to arguably the most ICONIC live action Joker for nearly two decades prior to Ledger's Joker in 2008.
As a guy who absolutely ADORES "Batman 1989", if we're hypothetically to have Keaton's Batman being rivaled by the Joker one
last time in a live action Batman Beyond Return of the Joker movie (which theoretically could be Keaton's farewell), it better be Jack Nicholson's Joker. Deepfake the hell out of the physical actor, get a damn good Nicholson voice actor, and make the concluding chapter to the Burtonverse
truly special.
The capability to achieve this is now obtainable, and to me, it's either "Go Big or Go Home". Either you go all out and OVER do it, or you don't do it at all.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 30 Oct 2021, 03:54
Not necessarily about this topic, but generally speaking, people don't seem to know the difference between accepting something will happen or not happen, and actually liking that thing is happening or not happening. Do I like the idea of vaccine mandates? Absolutely not. But they're happening regardless. Do I want the global elite to walk away from their agenda? Absolutely. But it's not going to happen. Some things really are that black and white.
I won't speak much to this, but following last night, perhaps you're not
quite as black pilled
now as this post would suggest?
Quote from: The Joker on Wed, 3 Nov 2021, 21:41
As a Joker guy, it's kinda what-and-what with me when it comes to trying to fit a square peg into a round hole by retroactively inserting Keaton/Leto into positions that's just going to automatically cause major nonsensical/retcon/continuity problems going forth. Plus, as you suggest, doing that mucks up not only the Snyderverse, but also the Burton films as well. Which YOU WOULD THINK, would be an automatic deal breaker of an idea.
I can't believe some Burtonverse fans seem open to this idea.
Anyway, I agree with you. If Keaton continues, he should do so as the Batman we recognise and further expand the lore. Same thing with Affleck. Replacing one over the other not only risks getting shoehorned, they risk getting changed and become unrecognisable. If that's the case then what's the point of them coming back?
Quote from: The Joker on Wed, 3 Nov 2021, 21:41
As a guy who absolutely ADORES "Batman 1989", if we're hypothetically to have Keaton's Batman being rivaled by the Joker one last time in a live action Batman Beyond Return of the Joker movie (which theoretically could be Keaton's farewell), it better be Jack Nicholson's Joker. Deepfake the hell out of the physical actor, get a damn good Nicholson voice actor, and make the concluding chapter to the Burtonverse truly special.
The capability to achieve this is now obtainable, and to me, it's either "Go Big or Go Home". Either you go all out and OVER do it, or you don't do it at all.
Agreed 100%. As you mentioned, it would depend if Nicholson would give his permission for his likeness to be used, but I'd rather this as an option than Leto playing another version of the Joker in the DC multiverse.
Deepfakes have made outstanding progress over the last few years, but I have do a lot of concerns about how they're open to the general public. After reading some of the horror stories over how they're used for sinister intent, it's the type of technology that is often abused than one might imagine. It does make me believe it shouldn't have been made available anywhere outside the film industry. But that's a topic for another time.
Earlier this year, Jared Leto was keen on the idea of sharing the screen with other live action Joker interpretations.
Quote
In a recent interview on the Variety Awards Circuit Podcast, DCEU Joker actor Jared Leto admitted that the potential of multiple Jokers coming into the DCEU through the multiverse would be something special.
During the show, the interviewer shared:
"My dream project is to dream to get all of the cinematic Joker's sort of like into the Spider-Verse in a movie where you and Joaquin [Phoenix] and Jack Nicholson can all play off each other. I just think that would be a masterclass."
Leto responded positively to the idea, saying that such a concept would be "a lot of fun":
"Oh my god. They might need to lock us up after that. That sounds like a lot of insanity. And a lot of fun.
https://web.archive.org/web/20210301185754/https://thedirect.com/article/jared-leto-joker-joaquin-phoenix-jack-nicholson-crossover
Cavill also suggested there can be more than one Superman interpretation and expressed his interest in continuing, while showing his support for a black Superman project. As I said before, Cavill was rumoured to appear in The Flash too. Regardless, Warner is setting themselves up for failure if they continue to use the multiverse as a PR stunt without having any real commitment to it.
Leto and Cavill are happy to share the screen with their replacements.
The absolute state of the DCEU...
It is once again being stressed that Keaton is Batman in Batgirl. GWW.com (geeks worldwide) has mentioned it. So, we're dealing with a serious retcon. Post crisis DCEU.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Mon, 15 Nov 2021, 20:52
It is once again being stressed that Keaton is Batman in Batgirl. GWW.com (geeks worldwide) has mentioned it. So, we're dealing with a serious retcon. Post crisis DCEU.
As I said before, if this happens then Keaton isn't playing Tim Burton's Batman anymore. Anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon, 15 Nov 2021, 02:22
Leto and Cavill are happy to share the screen with their replacements.
The absolute state of the DCEU...
The DCEU stopped being a thing when Josstice L came out, and Warner Butchers started producing movies that are loosely connected, at best. What we have we have now is a franchise with a continuity that's even more broken than Fox's X-Men movies.
Don't be fooled, IF The Flash reboots the DC timeline it will continue to cause more problems. That sh*t will only break the Burtonverse, mark my words.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Mon, 15 Nov 2021, 20:52
It is once again being stressed that Keaton is Batman in Batgirl. GWW.com (geeks worldwide) has mentioned it. So, we're dealing with a serious retcon. Post crisis DCEU.
Not surprised in the slightest. It was obvious this was going to happen. Anything else was wishful thinking.
One of the Batgirl directors uploaded this Batfleck meme on Instagram, and then deleted it.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FESRSPPUUAAzddX?format=jpg)
This is the second time they posted Batfleck-related images. This either means they're hinting he is in Batgirl...or it's a meaningless meme.
I'm frankly getting sick of this. Batgirl is supposed to film soon and get released before The Flash comes out. If that's the plan then they should simply come out and say which Batman will be in it. If it's Affleck then say so. If its Keaton playing a likely bastardised, unrecognisable version of his own Batman then say so.
JK Simmons was interviewed about Batgirl. He films in January. He appears to be operating under the impression that Ben Affleck is still Batman. I personally believe that this is the case. I think the info about Keaton is stuff that was culled from official ideas that were on the table, but did not carry forward, which is why all the 'insiders' were so adamant.
Here are some quotes by Kiersey Clemons on her return as Iris West.
Quote
"It didn't feel real," Clemons revealed. "None of it. From the day I started to the day that I wrapped. Because we waited so long that I was like, "I'm not really here right now." It felt very- it felt weird. I'm not gonna lie. It felt weird because it's been a long time. Yeah. Iris has grown up and is a different version than what I may have had an idea of who she would be. It was just a discovery and it was really exciting."
"Honestly, it's been so long," Clemons added. "I initially came on to the movie excited to work with who was the director at the time [Rick Famuyiwa], but also excited to be in a superhero movie. Now, it's less about the movie. I'm excited for Andy, who's our director now, but now it's more so, I'm excited for the people who are excited, and who have been commenting on my photos "Iris West" for five years. Like, are you joking? This is for them.
She's more excited about the fans who are looking forward to the movie than the movie itself? Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but that doesn't sound very encouraging.
https://web.archive.org/web/20211201070156/https://comicbook.com/dc/news/the-flash-star-kiersey-clemons-director-changes-movie/
Meanwhile, Batgirl composer Natalie Holt teased a police jacket that will appear in the movie. The police crest not only shares continuity with The Flash, it also appears on the patrol cars in Affleck's Batcycle chase scene.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FFi06LlWQAohG0_?format=jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FFi06MXWYAkmv2c?format=jpg)
https://www.instagram.com/p/CW8teJ-tiCz/
https://www.thenational.scot/news/19472703.batman-streets-glasgow-filming-hollywood-flick-flash/
With JK Simmons reprising his role as Commissioner Gordon, this
might yet be another indication that Affleck is in Batgirl too. I say
might because you never know with this studio.
If that police crest is in the same universe as Batfleck and Batgirl, it's a change from the BvS one:
(https://detroit.cbslocal.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/15909782/2014/08/gothampoicecar.jpg)
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Wed, 24 Nov 2021, 19:32
JK Simmons was interviewed about Batgirl. He films in January. He appears to be operating under the impression that Ben Affleck is still Batman. I personally believe that this is the case. I think the info about Keaton is stuff that was culled from official ideas that were on the table, but did not carry forward, which is why all the 'insiders' were so adamant.
This comment from Simmons strengthens my belief Keaton will be the Bruce Wayne in Batgirl:
"I was as surprised as I was when [Marvel] came back to ask me to do [Jameson] that they were coming to me to play Batgirl's father, Commissioner Gordon again,
in this new version of the universe. We've already had lots of discussions about the script and how to play everything. I'm excited by the cast and the directors and ... looking forward to diving back into
the DC multiverse."
It's odd that they still haven't confirmed who's playing Batman in the Batgirl film. The studio has confirmed who's playing Babs, Gordon and Firefly, but not Batman. There are two reasons I can think of why they might be keeping this particular piece of casting under wraps:
1) The studio itself doesn't know who's playing Batman. Whether it's Keaton or Affleck, perhaps the actor hasn't signed on the dotted line yet. Remember how Keaton flip-flopped on both Spider-Man: Homecoming and The Flash, dragging his feet and claiming that he might not do them? He could be adopting a similar negotiating strategy now. Or maybe Affleck's the one who's undecided about returning after he announced he was done with the role. Either way, the actor might not have committed yet. However this seems extremely unlikely at this point, since they've already begun filming. Unless Batman's appearance is just a very brief cameo.
2) The identity of the actor playing Batman might create a major spoiler for the plot of The Flash. This seems the more likely explanation to me, and it would support my theory that Keaton is playing a new version of Batman reborn from the Burtonverse incarnation. Alternatively, it could be the case that the rumours of Batfleck dying are false and they don't want the fans to know about it yet. At any rate, the secrecy surrounding the identity of Batman is probably related to the storyline of The Flash.
It could go either way, but for now I'm sticking with my original theory: the Burton Batman will probably die in The Flash, as the Flashpoint Batman did in the original comic, and then the movie will end with a new Batman being introduced in the DCEU that will also be played by Keaton.
There is an interview going around that quotes Ben Affleck saying that he is done doing IPs. "I don't want to do IP movies where you have this sort of built-in audience. That's something I was interested in and liked, and I just don't like it anymore."
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 15 Dec 2021, 13:32
It could go either way, but for now I'm sticking with my original theory: the Burton Batman will probably die in The Flash, as the Flashpoint Batman did in the original comic, and then the movie will end with a new Batman being introduced in the DCEU that will also be played by Keaton.
I would be disappointed if this happened and would view it unnecessary. It's something I could accept with a Thomas Wayne Batman, who is truly an Elseworlds Bizarro creation inverting the customary interpretation. But for an established and known Batman they don't need to go that far. Things wouldn't have the same impact if the Burton incarnation was stone cold killed, erasing all his memories and keeping only his shell. The whole point should be it's the same man but in a different setting, and how he reacts to that. I'm holding out hope that's the route they take, because it's clear to me Keaton's going to be the actor.
He might not die. I only suspect he might because of the unfortunate recent trend for killing off older white male heroes for cheap emotional effect (Han Solo, John Wesley Shipp's Flash, Luke Skywalker, James Bond, probably Indiana Jones, etc). I can imagine them doing that to Keaton in The Flash. But even if it does happen, the rumour I've heard is that the events of Batman 89 and Batman Returns will still be retconned into the DCEU. So they will now officially be the first films in the DCEU timeline. That way even if Batman is killed and resurrected, he'll still have memories of battling the Joker and dating Selina Kyle. I suspect he might also share Batfleck's memories too, as if the new Batman were an amalgamation of the Burtonverse and DCEU incarnations.
It's important for me that there is some continuity between any future Keaton Batman movies and the old ones, otherwise what's the point in bringing him back? I also want a potential Batman Beyond movie to be directly connected to B89 and BR, ideally with as little connection to the rest of the DCEU as possible. I basically want Batman Beyond to be the third movie in the Burton trilogy. B89 already offers the perfect set up for a live action Return of the Joker film, as we've discussed at some length on this site. So it's a logical direction to go in.
But if they do kill the Burton Batman off, it'll probably be as hollow and impermanent as Captain Kirk's death in Star Trek Into Darkness. He'll die heroically, only to be resurrected five minutes later. That's assuming my theory is correct, which it might not be.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 15 Dec 2021, 21:38
He might not die. I only suspect he might because of the unfortunate recent trend for killing off older white male heroes for cheap emotional effect (Han Solo, John Wesley Shipp's Flash, Luke Skywalker, James Bond, probably Indiana Jones, etc). I can imagine them doing that to Keaton in The Flash.
Point very well taken. As, unfortunately, that is the climate in which we're living in right now.
QuoteBut even if it does happen, the rumour I've heard is that the events of Batman 89 and Batman Returns will still be retconned into the DCEU. So they will now officially be the first films in the DCEU timeline. That way even if Batman is killed and resurrected, he'll still have memories of battling the Joker and dating Selina Kyle. I suspect he might also share Batfleck's memories too, as if the new Batman were an amalgamation of the Burtonverse and DCEU incarnations.
I don't know. I
guess I would be relatively ok with this considering the circumstances, but it's definitely not preferable. Just the notion of amalgamating Keaton and Affleck's Batman into one comes across as cluttering and creating continuity/history problems. Course, the very recent comments from Affleck, who's had to deal with a concatenation of behind the scenes shenanigans and outright incompetence for years now, can't be ignored, and is a factor as well. If Affleck is mentally checked out, he's mentally checked out. Can't blame the guy, and Warners isn't going to
not push Batman, especially as a cinematic IP, so here we are....
QuoteIt's important for me that there is some continuity between any future Keaton Batman movies and the old ones, otherwise what's the point in bringing him back? I also want a potential Batman Beyond movie to be directly connected to B89 and BR, ideally with as little connection to the rest of the DCEU as possible. I basically want Batman Beyond to be the third movie in the Burton trilogy. B89 already offers the perfect set up for a live action Return of the Joker film, as we've discussed at some length on this site. So it's a logical direction to go in.
AGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY! 100%
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 15 Dec 2021, 21:38
It's important for me that there is some continuity between any future Keaton Batman movies and the old ones, otherwise what's the point in bringing him back? I also want a potential Batman Beyond movie to be directly connected to B89 and BR, ideally with as little connection to the rest of the DCEU as possible. I basically want Batman Beyond to be the third movie in the Burton trilogy. B89 already offers the perfect set up for a live action Return of the Joker film, as we've discussed at some length on this site. So it's a logical direction to go in.
I've accepted that when it comes to the Burtonverse I'm perfectly happy with just the first two films, and whatever follows can either be a nice bonus, or in the worst case scenario, ignored. The B89 comic continuation is falling into the latter category for me. B89 and BR have true purity given who made them and when. In terms of the comic, the Burton vibe just wasn't achieved. Yes, Wayans would've been Robin. Billy Dee would've been Two Face.
It has some good thing going for it, but on the whole I can't believe this is exactly how the universe evolved. And my concern is that the Batgirl movie will serve as Keaton's Beyond inspired mentor movie. Don't get me wrong, I'm excited to see Keaton again. A lot just depends on how I feel about The Flash's storytelling techniques. No Way Home seems to meet fan expectations in that regard.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Wed, 15 Dec 2021, 16:37
There is an interview going around that quotes Ben Affleck saying that he is done doing IPs. "I don't want to do IP movies where you have this sort of built-in audience. That's something I was interested in and liked, and I just don't like it anymore."
Back to this - I believe there's an element of reclaiming control here with this comment by Ben. And that's not a criticism. After The Flash, if predictions are correct, there won't be an ongoing role for him going forward. I had hope in the HBO Max opportunity, but nothing has transpired there. And unfortunately I can't see that changing. Ben did the cameo for The Flash and that seems to be it for him.
Quote from: The Joker on Wed, 15 Dec 2021, 23:20
I don't know. I guess I would be relatively ok with this considering the circumstances, but it's definitely not preferable. Just the notion of amalgamating Keaton and Affleck's Batman into one comes across as cluttering and creating continuity/history problems.
I'll be much more blunt than that, it's a f***ing abysmal idea. It sounds like really bad fan fiction. If I hadn't made myself clear before, I am now.(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/Themes/default/images/post/thumbdown.gif)
Same goes for either Batman dying. I don't want to see that happening either.
Merging Keaton and Affleck's continuity together while selectively retaining
some existing continuity from the Burton era is the equivalent of trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, as you once put it, and it would only confuse mass audiences. If Affleck was considered way too old by some detractors then what does that make Keaton?
I repeat, if Keaton were to come back to play Batman again on a recurring basis then he should continue playing the character we all know and love, that was established back in '89 and '92. Not come back as some bastardised, hijacked and worst of all, unrecognisable version of himself. Seriously, who the f*** wants that?
Neither of these hypothetical theories as Keaton as the new DC Batman are any good, and if any of these were to happen then Warner Butchers' gross mismanagement of the DC franchise would not only continue, but sink even further.
Quote from: The Joker on Wed, 15 Dec 2021, 23:20
Course, the very recent comments from Affleck, who's had to deal with a concatenation of behind the scenes shenanigans and outright incompetence for years now, can't be ignored, and is a factor as well. If Affleck is mentally checked out, he's mentally checked out. Can't blame the guy, and Warners isn't going to not push Batman, especially as a cinematic IP, so here we are....
Judging by Affleck's comments, the context he was talking about was the changing viewing landscape of how people might prioritise dramas via streaming instead of going to the theater, that's dominated by big IPs. He didn't emphatically say he won't ever play Batman again after The Flash. But if he doesn't want to do it again, then yeah, I can't say I would blame him either, after everything we now know about the abusive garbage that happened behind the scenes of JL. Even filming those additional epilogue scenes for ZSJL during lockdown last year were still compromised, as the "We live in a society" scene was forced out and rewritten out of the final cut, and GL's disgraceful removal.
My guess is if ZSJL Part 2 and 3 were to be greenlit tomorrow, Affleck would easily come back to star in them. From what I understand, he is very loyal to Snyder's vision, and it's more than likely he would've been invested in finishing off his character's story that started in BvS and then call it a day. Somehow, I don't think him doing the filming of those epilogue scenes in ZSJL was just doing Zack a favour.
That being said, I don't understand why Affleck would agree to appear in The Flash if it as an alternative option to bid farewell. Doing that would only undo the expansion of the Knightmare world and meeting Martian Manhunter at the end of ZSJL. If he really had enough with big IPs, wouldn't it make much more sense to say to Snyder and Muschietti "thanks, but no thanks"? At this point in time, only he knows the answer to the question, while the rest of us only have conjecture to work with.
We should have clearer ideas over where this is all heading in the next few months, including the completion of the Discovery merger. The thing is, people in Hollywood tend to act all coy and then change their tune later. For example, Henry Cavill said he didn't know a Snyder cut existed two years ago, but now he is singing the movie's praises in interviews and he's talking about how the Anti-Life was going to brainwash Superman in the planned JL2. And of course there was the whole business over Feige and Holland pretending Spider-Man's time in the MCU was over, and look what happened. So there's that.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Wed, 15 Dec 2021, 16:37
There is an interview going around that quotes Ben Affleck saying that he is done doing IPs. "I don't want to do IP movies where you have this sort of built-in audience. That's something I was interested in and liked, and I just don't like it anymore."
Would Affleck be saying these things if the IP movies he was involved in were successful?
Quote from: The Joker on Wed, 15 Dec 2021, 23:20I don't know. I guess I would be relatively ok with this considering the circumstances, but it's definitely not preferable. Just the notion of amalgamating Keaton and Affleck's Batman into one comes across as cluttering and creating continuity/history problems. Course, the very recent comments from Affleck, who's had to deal with a concatenation of behind the scenes shenanigans and outright incompetence for years now, can't be ignored, and is a factor as well. If Affleck is mentally checked out, he's mentally checked out. Can't blame the guy, and Warners isn't going to not push Batman, especially as a cinematic IP, so here we are....
It would be awkward. I should just clarify that the amalgamation angle is merely a theory on my part to explain how they might reconcile aspects of Batfleck's mythology, such as Simmons' Gordon, with aspects of Keaton's mythology. No reliable source has confirmed they will do this. But I wouldn't be surprised if they did. The whole Multiverse trend is going to make things incredibly messy for both the MCU and DCEU, just like it made things messy in the comics.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 16 Dec 2021, 06:56It has some good thing going for it, but on the whole I can't believe this is exactly how the universe evolved. And my concern is that the Batgirl movie will serve as Keaton's Beyond inspired mentor movie. Don't get me wrong, I'm excited to see Keaton again. A lot just depends on how I feel about The Flash's storytelling techniques. No Way Home seems to meet fan expectations in that regard.
I have no problem with Batman appearing in a mentor role in the Batgirl movie, unless... unless it turns out that the Batgirl movie
is the Batman Beyond movie. That we're getting it
instead of Batman Beyond rather than in addition to it. That would be a terrible waste. There'd be no Neo Gotham, no Terry McGinnis, no return of Jack Napier's Joker. That would be a crushing disappointment if it turned out to be the case.
To expand on my point about Batman Beyond being unrelated to the rest of the DCEU, I want it set in a cyberpunk future so that it's removed from the timeframe of the other DC movies, and so that fans can go straight from Batman Returns to Batman Beyond without needing to watch The Flash or Batgirl in between. Bruce will be in his sixties/seventies in these new movies, but in Batman Beyond Keaton should be digitally aged to look like he's in his eighties or nineties. The Flash is Keaton's Dark Knight Returns, but Batman Beyond needs to be set further in the future when he's older. A Batgirl movie set in the present day is fine as its own thing, but it's unacceptable as a substitute for a proper Batman Beyond film.
Right now there's no reason to assume that Batgirl and Batman Beyond are one and the same project. Whatever plans WB has for Keaton's Batman, they probably won't reveal them until after The Flash has been released to avoid spoiling the plot of that movie. For all we know, they might be in the early stages of developing a BB movie right now. I hope so. But as we've already said in previous discussions, they really need to get Burton and Elfman involved in the BB film.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 16 Dec 2021, 06:56Back to this - I believe there's an element of reclaiming control here with this comment by Ben. And that's not a criticism. After The Flash, if predictions are correct, there won't be an ongoing role for him going forward. I had hope in the HBO Max opportunity, but nothing has transpired there. And unfortunately I can't see that changing. Ben did the cameo for The Flash and that seems to be it for him.
Yeah, I think Ben's done with the role. For now at least. But with the Multiverse connecting everything, the door's always open for him to return sometime in the future. I mean if Keaton can come back three decades after quitting the role then anything's possible. But as far as the immediate future's concerned, I expect Ben's going to try and reposition his career the way he did with The Town and Argo. He'll probably avoid big budget movies in favour of smaller more personal projects that will earn him some respect within the industry.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu, 16 Dec 2021, 18:00
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 16 Dec 2021, 06:56It has some good thing going for it, but on the whole I can't believe this is exactly how the universe evolved. And my concern is that the Batgirl movie will serve as Keaton's Beyond inspired mentor movie. Don't get me wrong, I'm excited to see Keaton again. A lot just depends on how I feel about The Flash's storytelling techniques. No Way Home seems to meet fan expectations in that regard.
I have no problem with Batman appearing in a mentor role in the Batgirl movie, unless... unless it turns out that the Batgirl movie is the Batman Beyond movie. That we're getting it instead of Batman Beyond rather than in addition to it. That would be a terrible waste. There'd be no Neo Gotham, no Terry McGinnis, no return of Jack Napier's Joker. That would be a crushing disappointment if it turned out to be the case.
To expand on my point about Batman Beyond being unrelated to the rest of the DCEU, I want it set in a cyberpunk future so that it's removed from the timeframe of the other DC movies, and so that fans can go straight from Batman Returns to Batman Beyond without needing to watch The Flash or Batgirl in between. Bruce will be in his sixties/seventies in these new movies, but in Batman Beyond Keaton should be digitally aged to look like he's in his eighties or nineties. The Flash is Keaton's Dark Knight Returns, but Batman Beyond needs to be set further in the future when he's older. A Batgirl movie set in the present day is fine as its own thing, but it's unacceptable as a substitute for a proper Batman Beyond film.
Right now there's no reason to assume that Batgirl and Batman Beyond are one and the same project. Whatever plans WB has for Keaton's Batman, they probably won't reveal them until after The Flash has been released to avoid spoiling the plot of that movie. For all we know, they might be in the early stages of developing a BB movie right now. I hope so. But as we've already said in previous discussions, they really need to get Burton and Elfman involved in the BB film.
If Keaton is a mentor in Batgirl, are they going to present the same concept in live action again a short time after? At the moment I'm leaning on the perhaps not side. Are they going to do a time jump to cyberpunk if they want Keaton in a contemporary ongoing role? Maybe not. Then you have to consider who that student would be. It's Woke World, so you bet they're going to be female and of color. They have those boxes ticked already. I'm not saying it will happen, but you have to think this way. I say brace yourself for the possibility.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 17 Dec 2021, 12:45Then you have to consider who that student would be. It's Woke World, so you bet they're going to be female and of color. They have those boxes ticked already. I'm not saying it will happen, but you have to think this way. I say brace yourself for the possibility.
Sad state of affairs. But it is true that we're now in a world where fans need to weigh their desire to see certain previously unseen comic book concepts against the near certainty that if it ever happens, it'll be a woke form.
Sure, I want to see a live action Batman Beyond. But I'm not sure I need an alphabet soup version of Terry lecturing 90+ year old Bruce on his "privilege" or whatever.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 17 Dec 2021, 18:26
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 17 Dec 2021, 12:45Then you have to consider who that student would be. It's Woke World, so you bet they're going to be female and of color. They have those boxes ticked already. I'm not saying it will happen, but you have to think this way. I say brace yourself for the possibility.
Sad state of affairs. But it is true that we're now in a world where fans need to weigh their desire to see certain previously unseen comic book concepts against the near certainty that if it ever happens, it'll be a woke form.
Sure, I want to see a live action Batman Beyond. But I'm not sure I need an alphabet soup version of Terry lecturing 90+ year old Bruce on his "privilege" or whatever.
This is a sobering point. There are many books and comics I'd love to see adapted into films or TV shows, but I'd prefer to wait a little longer for it to happen than see them mishandled in the current climate of extreme wokeism. I say wait because I don't believe the era of woke entertainment media can continue indefinitely. It simply isn't intellectually or economically tenable and will have to end eventually, or at the very least adapt into a more subtle form than it presently takes.
However, in the case of Keaton starring in a Batman Beyond movie waiting might not be an option. He's already 70. I sincerely hope he has many more years of good health ahead of him, but he might choose to spend those years in retirement. Or if he does continue working, he might decide to cut back on blockbuster roles. I feel Batman Beyond, if it's going to happen with Keaton, needs to happen fairly soon.
Alas, that does mean the project risks being filtered through the corrupting lens of woke ideology. We'll just have to hope the damage is minimal.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 17 Dec 2021, 18:26
Sad state of affairs. But it is true that we're now in a world where fans need to weigh their desire to see certain previously unseen comic book concepts against the near certainty that if it ever happens, it'll be a woke form.
Sure, I want to see a live action Batman Beyond. But I'm not sure I need an alphabet soup version of Terry lecturing 90+ year old Bruce on his "privilege" or whatever.
I'm much more wary about The Flash before thinking anything about a potential Batman Beyond project. If we're talking strictly about the subject of woke, who is to say Supergirl won't be propped up at the expense of Keaton's Batman, or Miller's Flash for that matter? The DC FanDome sneak peak gave me an impression Keaton's Batman may have retired for a lengthy period of time, and perhaps Barry and co encouraged him to get back out there. The retirement trope is very cliche for these kind of movies, but if that's the approach they're taking then I hope they don't give Keaton the Jake Skywalker treatment.
But what worries me about The Flash the most is the studio itself. Not only have we heard conflicting rumours about Snyderverse getting erased or being left alone, Warner has caused a lot of controversy this whole year that soured the perception of this movie. Ray Fisher's firing from the film would've resulted in rewrites, and it seemed both Andy and Barbara Muschietti wanted him to have a crucial role in the film. That alone proves the movie has been compromised, and the assholes in charge of the studio has antagonised the Snyderverse fanbase throughout the whole year with characters and scenes getting deleted in ZSJL, which does nothing but harm the whole multiverse PR talk the studio has been promoting since 2020.
I've been following the mood surrounding The Flash on social media, it ranges from skepticism to downright contempt. Some even derisively call it "The Flush". Tweets like this, which got over 4k likes, is very commonplace:
Quote
BREAKING: 'THE FLASH' movie's target audience non-existent.
https://twitter.com/LeCinephiles/status/1471619413510017030
You might say the vast majority of these are MCU Spider-Man fanboys are trolling with these likes because of NWH's success, but I don't think that's the case. As I said, Warner has undone a goodwill with their shenanigans this past year, to the point the perception of this film is at an all time low. Unless the Discovery merger fixes whatever negative aspects with this film with reshoots and the restructure tries to fix this negative PR, The Flash could be seen as the antithesis of what NWH is hyped up to be. If it alienates ALL DC fans, including both Snyderverse and Burtonverse, it will be devastating to the DC brand as a whole. I really don't think I'm being hyperbolic here, the worst case scenario could be permanently damaging.
Hope I didn't bring the room down. Yes, wokeness has destroyed a lot of my affection for my old favorite properties. These days, I get a lot more energy and excitement from horror movies, horror comics and so forth. The superhero properties that used to be the bread and butter of my fandom have lost a lot of their luster.
But at the same time, there's always a chance that a hypothetical adaptation of Batman Beyond will respect the entire Beyond concept and do right by the fans. There is some justification in hanging on to hope.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sat, 18 Dec 2021, 20:41
However, in the case of Keaton starring in a Batman Beyond movie waiting might not be an option. He's already 70. I sincerely hope he has many more years of good health ahead of him, but he might choose to spend those years in retirement. Or if he does continue working, he might decide to cut back on blockbuster roles. I feel Batman Beyond, if it's going to happen with Keaton, needs to happen fairly soon.
Indeed. With Keaton back on board as Batman, a
Batman Beyond movie really needs to be put on the fast track fairly soon. Given the fast and loose nature of the DCEU continuity these days, I'm a whole lot less interested in how a Batman Beyond movie "fits" with whatever you want to call DCEU continuity following
The Flash movie, and more intrigued by a more focused amalgamation of the Batman Beyond concept, and the Burtonverse continuity. Self contained, and not the least bit concerned with the "shared universe" gimmick. Hell, it would be so easy for Warners to sell it as just a different timeline/universe. One where the Burtonverse was left pristine and unaffected by Miller's Flash, and being retconned into the DCEU or whatever.
By now audiences can grasp this, but I agree, it needs to be in the cards relatively soon.
If this press release is to be believed, Keaton is in Batgirl.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FHNa7aQWUAIY5Ky?format=png&name=large)
If this is true, it's is the most MORONIC news I've read in a while. The Burtonverse is now going to get compromised as well as the Snyderverse. What a f***ing joke. Garbage studio. I wouldn't be surprised if this reduces the prospects of Batman Beyond too.
Meanwhile, it seems Michael Shannon and Antje Traue are coming back.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FHNa9vPXwAsF9XP?format=png&name=large)
Quote from: The Joker on Tue, 21 Dec 2021, 21:20
Indeed. With Keaton back on board as Batman, a Batman Beyond movie really needs to be put on the fast track fairly soon. Given the fast and loose nature of the DCEU continuity these days, I'm a whole lot less interested in how a Batman Beyond movie "fits" with whatever you want to call DCEU continuity following The Flash movie, and more intrigued by a more focused amalgamation of the Batman Beyond concept, and the Burtonverse continuity. Self contained, and not the least bit concerned with the "shared universe" gimmick. Hell, it would be so easy for Warners to sell it as just a different timeline/universe. One where the Burtonverse was left pristine and unaffected by Miller's Flash, and being retconned into the DCEU or whatever.
I don't think they necessarily need to specify whether Batman Beyond takes place in the original Burtonverse or DCEU continuities. They just need a Neo-Gotham that reflects the dieselpunk/Art Deco/Gothic/German Expressionist fusion of the classic Burton version, only projected a further half a century into the future. Something like this.
(https://images5.alphacoders.com/864/864094.jpg)
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/02/69/3a/02693ad5285e8af5d0fbf9e1f4d023bd.jpg)
(https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/020/353/099/large/anthony-brault-img-0418.jpg?1567454036&dl=1)
Let the viewers decide for themselves whether this is part of the original Earth-89 continuity or that of the post-Flash DCEU. Ideally it would be better if it was the Earth-89 timeline. That way they could include flashbacks depicting Jack's Joker. But even if the studio wants to play it ambiguous, they could just mention that there was
a Joker, whose real name was Jack Napier, and he was killed a long time ago by Batman. That's all you need to set up Return of the Joker, and it would be consistent with the events of the 1989 film.
The only other area where they might have to commit to DCEU continuity is with Barbara Gordon, but they could always get around that by leaving her out. Have Ellen Yindel take her place as police commissioner. Problem solved.
As far as wokeness, diversity and inclusiveness goes, that could be a problem. But the cast of the original animated series might already be sufficiently diverse to tick the right boxes. Maxine Gibson was black, and Dana Tan was Asian. I think Xolo Maridueña from Cobra Kai would have made a pretty good Terry, if he hadn't already been cast as the title character in the upcoming Blue Beetle movie.
(https://i.postimg.cc/MHr4K1h5/terry.png)
I'd ditch the thing about him being cloned from Bruce. That's one complication the movie doesn't need.
I mean, Affleck sounds like he's pretty done and Keaton seems to really want to do the role again, and if he's happy with how his portions of Flash turned out (the same man who was not feeling Forever) then there is that.
Plus I hate to say it (and it's somthing I had to accept). If it sucks, it sucks. I still have 89 and Returns to enjoy and they (as of this post) the 89/returns era was decades before present day Batman so it's not directly touching those movies (if at all).
At the end of the day if I'm not feeling the adverting, I'll not see the movie since it seems like Keaton might not be in it much, I'll just not see it in theatres and just rent it. I don't feel obligated to watch something because I'm being dangled with Nostalgia.
As far as the leaks, I'm very skeptical. I mean, there was ALOT of wrong information about Zack Snyders Justice League that was wrong from people who claimed to have seen it.
The sad thing is, there was almost almost no rection to Keaton showing up in the trailer, same can not be said about the new Spider-man movie. I'll be suprised if I see that kind of reaction in the Flash and thats a little depressing.
Warners has been very hit or miss so for me there's a 50% chance if might be good or bad. WB's also not the only studio thats shoves their ideas into films. It's the same reason John Favreau left Iron Man 3 and one reason why I refuse to watch Iron Man and put me in the wrong footing into the MCU (which has it's on complains of Directors not being allowed to express their vision in sacrifice for the corporate agenda). They just happen to make films most people like.
Bottom line, If I see this film, its mostly for Batman. And if it has Keatons seal of apporval then that's enough for me right now. If it sucks, it's a bitter pill to swollow but life goes on.
My basic plot theory is this:
Batman (Ben Affleck) is killed. This affects Barry to such a degree that it inspires him to alter the timeline, perhaps because Barry is involved in the death somehow and thinks that unmaking the Flash would be better for all.
The timeline is altered, but a butterfly effect occurs. Barry finds that General Zod's invasion of Earth was successful. He tries to alter it and things get worse, maybe even the time line itself begins to crumble.
He flees the universe, and searches for one that has a living Nora Allen. He finds Earth-89.
Earth-89 is kinda dystopian and Barry tries to supplant himself into it by creating his own justice league.
The result is an end of the world disaster. To salvage it all, he saves both universes by using his powers to merge them together. The DCEU is now an amalgam of both worlds. Nothing is quite the same.
Batman is Keaton, but the Burton Batman died trying to save his own world and this Batman is a rebirth that may borrow some, but not all of the original history.
I think many of those plot predictions will prove accurate, Gotham Knight. I'm expecting something fairly similar to your outline.
Lots of sites are now reporting that Keaton has officially signed on. That means that even if Batgirl is his final Batman film – and I don't think it will be – then he'll have played the Dark Knight in more movies than Christian Bale, and the same number of films as Chris Reeve did as Superman. I'm hoping he'll make at least two more Batman movies after this: obviously one has to be Batman Beyond; the other would ideally be a Justice League film set between Batgirl and BB in which he dons Kingdom Come-style armour, interacts with the JLA and does battle against a major DC universe threat. Perhaps even a straight-up Kingdom Come adaptation. That way we'd get a total of six Keaton Batman movies divided across two trilogies:
• The solo/Burtonverse trilogy: Batman '89, Batman Returns, Batman Beyond
• The DCEU trilogy: The Flash, Batgirl, JLA: Kingdom Come
I'd be happy with that hexalogy. Then he'd have made the same number of Batman films as Connery did Bond (not counting the unofficial Never Say Never Again). If he could voice Batman in some animated tie-ins or videogames too, then that would be a nice bonus.
Keaton's first run as Batman ended in 1994 when it was announced he wouldn't be returning for Batman Forever. Now the second era of the Keaton Batman is just about to begin.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Dw4dP1sF/flash-batman.gif)
But to echo the caution that others have already expressed – if they screw these movies up then we can always discount them and fall back on the original two Burton films. If they get the new movies right, we'll be their biggest supporters anywhere on the internet. But if they mess them up, then we'll be their most vocal critics.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 22 Dec 2021, 19:30
I think many of those plot predictions will prove accurate, Gotham Knight. I'm expecting something fairly similar to your outline.
Lots of sites are now reporting that Keaton has officially signed on. That means that even if Batgirl is his final Batman film – and I don't think it will be – then he'll have played the Dark Knight in more movies than Christian Bale, and the same number of films as Chris Reeve did as Superman. I'm hoping he'll make at least two more Batman movies after this: obviously one has to be Batman Beyond; the other would ideally be a Justice League film set between Batgirl and BB in which he dons Kingdom Come-style armour, interacts with the JLA and does battle against a major DC universe threat. Perhaps even a straight-up Kingdom Come adaptation. That way we'd get a total of six Keaton Batman movies divided across two trilogies:
• The solo/Burtonverse trilogy: Batman '89, Batman Returns, Batman Beyond
• The DCEU trilogy: The Flash, Batgirl, JLA: Kingdom Come
I'd be happy with that hexalogy. Then he'd have made the same number of Batman films as Connery did Bond (not counting the unofficial Never Say Never Again). If he could voice Batman in some animated tie-ins or videogames too, then that would be a nice bonus.
Keaton's first run as Batman ended in 1994 when it was announced he wouldn't be returning for Batman Forever. Now the second era of the Keaton Batman is just about to begin.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Dw4dP1sF/flash-batman.gif)
But to echo the caution that others have already expressed – if they screw these movies up then we can always discount them and fall back on the original two Burton films. If they get the new movies right, we'll be their biggest supporters anywhere on the internet. But if they mess them up, then we'll be their most vocal critics.
Another idea I had was that it is possible that Zod exists in the 89 universe and it is in fact that universe that gets annihilated by him and causes Batman to make the sacrifice.
Consider this: What if in his attempt to make his own Justice League, Barry sets his team out out to save Supergirl from captivity as she will no doubt be the centerpiece, but in doing so he somehow awakens Earth-89's Zod.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 22 Dec 2021, 19:30
• The solo/Burtonverse trilogy: Batman '89, Batman Returns, Batman Beyond
Wouldn't it be lovely if Burton somehow got roped into directing a Batman Beyond film?
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Wed, 22 Dec 2021, 13:39
Meanwhile, it seems Michael Shannon and Antje Traue are coming back.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FHNa9vPXwAsF9XP?format=png&name=large)
(https://i.gifer.com/VVQU.gif)
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 22 Dec 2021, 15:45
I don't think they necessarily need to specify whether Batman Beyond takes place in the original Burtonverse or DCEU continuities. They just need a Neo-Gotham that reflects the dieselpunk/Art Deco/Gothic/German Expressionist fusion of the classic Burton version, only projected a further half a century into the future. Something like this.
(https://images5.alphacoders.com/864/864094.jpg)
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/02/69/3a/02693ad5285e8af5d0fbf9e1f4d023bd.jpg)
(https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/020/353/099/large/anthony-brault-img-0418.jpg?1567454036&dl=1)
Let the viewers decide for themselves whether this is part of the original Earth-89 continuity or that of the post-Flash DCEU. Ideally it would be better if it was the Earth-89 timeline.
That's pretty much what I was getting at. Take the approach that Fox took with the X-Men films where
Batman Beyond doesn't necessarily adhere to whatever continuity is "current" in the DCEU (so in other words, audiences would take note of continuity contradictions from any previous DCEU Keaton appearances). Essentially a LOGAN type of procedure that references the first film (B89 and perhaps some from BR), and that's it. Which would give the project, at the very least, the sentiment that a Keaton Batman Beyond is the *true* bookend to the Keaton's Batman within the Burtonverse.
QuoteThat way they could include flashbacks depicting Jack's Joker. But even if the studio wants to play it ambiguous, they could just mention that there was a Joker, whose real name was Jack Napier, and he was killed a long time ago by Batman. That's all you need to set up Return of the Joker, and it would be consistent with the events of the 1989 film.
Works for me.
Leslie Grace has confirmed the news of Keaton appearing in Batgirl, saying "the bat's out the bag".
https://twitter.com/lesliegrace/status/1473783487832281088?s=20
What a disaster. Sorry, as much as I love Keaton's Batman, this is just a bloody awful idea. It makes doubt if he's even going to be the same Batman we once knew.
Warner is a joke.
Quote from: The Joker on Wed, 22 Dec 2021, 23:34
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Wed, 22 Dec 2021, 13:39
Meanwhile, it seems Michael Shannon and Antje Traue are coming back.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FHNa9vPXwAsF9XP?format=png&name=large)
(https://i.gifer.com/VVQU.gif)
Don't get too excited. Knowing those hacks in charge of the studio, Barry will run back in time during events of MOS to undo the entire third act, as a way of saying f*** you to Zack Snyder. ::)
My anticipation for this movie is at an all time low.
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Wed, 22 Dec 2021, 15:48
Bottom line, If I see this film, its mostly for Batman. And if it has Keatons seal of apporval then that's enough for me right now. If it sucks, it's a bitter pill to swollow but life goes on.
We'll see how everything pans out with Keaton, but the Pattinson era is very appealing to me right now. A self contained setup that every Batman apart from Affleck had, removed from any other plans with room to expand and be its own thing. Pattinson's Bruce sounds very much like Keaton's from B89/BR, but darker. It represents a new beginning rather than a muddle. I'm cool with this being the main event.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 23 Dec 2021, 02:48but the Pattinson era is very appealing to me right now. A self contained setup that every Batman apart from Affleck had, removed from any other plans with room to expand and be its own thing. Pattinson's Bruce sounds very much like Keaton's from B89/BR, but darker. It represents a new beginning rather than a muddle. I'm cool with this being the main event.
Same. Pattinson's version is shaping up to be the Darkest Knight You Ever Saw.
Somehow, against all odds, I've become the guy who favors a self-contained/non-shared approach to these superhero films now. Weird. But there it is.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 23 Dec 2021, 03:19
Same. Pattinson's version is shaping up to be the Darkest Knight You Ever Saw.
I don't give two sh*ts about Pattinson's version, and if it's true he is the "Darkest Knight You Ever Saw" then that's just a kick in the balls after all the overblown furore over Batfleck, who got derailed for nothing. I'm not participating in that sh*t.
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Wed, 22 Dec 2021, 15:48
Plus I hate to say it (and it's somthing I had to accept). If it sucks, it sucks. I still have 89 and Returns to enjoy and they (as of this post) the 89/returns era was decades before present day Batman so it's not directly touching those movies (if at all).
At the end of the day if I'm not feeling the adverting, I'll not see the movie since it seems like Keaton might not be in it much, I'll just not see it in theatres and just rent it. I don't feel obligated to watch something because I'm being dangled with Nostalgia.
The fact you have any skepticism over this movie is a sad indictment on WB's gross mismanagement over all things DC over the last four to five years. The Flash should be the most exciting production coming out, but instead, it's met with division and skepticism.
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Wed, 22 Dec 2021, 15:48
The sad thing is, there was almost almost no rection to Keaton showing up in the trailer, same can not be said about the new Spider-man movie. I'll be suprised if I see that kind of reaction in the Flash and thats a little depressing.
The trailer itself wasn't "officially" released worldwide, as far as I understand. It was only a DC FanDome exclusive. But yes, I notice that outside of the Internet, a lot of people are curious but not overwhelmed with excitement with Keaton's return. A part of me is sad about that, but another part of me believes it's yet another telling example of how DC has been badly mismanaged, as I have said.
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Wed, 22 Dec 2021, 15:48
Warners has been very hit or miss so for me there's a 50% chance if might be good or bad. WB's also not the only studio thats shoves their ideas into films. It's the same reason John Favreau left Iron Man 3 and one reason why I refuse to watch Iron Man and put me in the wrong footing into the MCU (which has it's on complains of Directors not being allowed to express their vision in sacrifice for the corporate agenda). They just happen to make films most people like.
Marvel Studios has been meddling with their directors too, yes, but the difference is they have much better PR than Warner. Warner has caused a lot of bad publicity with the whole Josstice L reshoots and denying ZSJL had existed for nearly four years, and have doubled down on diversity politics ever since Ray Fisher put them on blast. Their continued antagonising of all things Snyderverse, including Fisher's firing from The Flash, doesn't bode well for the film's prospects and caused even more bad publicity.
For all the talk about the multiverse, Warner has gone against themselves by refusing Green Lantern characters in ZSJL out of spite, not responding for any demands to spin-offs and most embarrassingly of all, have Marvel already beat them to do a multiverse movie in NWH that reportedly embraces all things Spider-Man. Whereas, the division over The Flash stems from rumours it will try to reboot the universe. Marvel might see a Snyder cut scenario with Doctor Strange 2 if the reshoots are that drastic, but until then, they have much more professionalism than the hacks in charge of Warner. That's regardless whether you like the MCU or not.
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Wed, 22 Dec 2021, 15:48
Bottom line, If I see this film, its mostly for Batman. And if it has Keatons seal of apporval then that's enough for me right now. If it sucks, it's a bitter pill to swollow but life goes on.
At this stage, I don't plan to see The Flash or Batgirl for that matter. I don't trust Warner having good intentions in producing these movies, and I'm not going to put myself at risk of further disappointment to see Keaton making his decades long return only to potentially get the Jake Skywalker treatment.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 23 Dec 2021, 03:19
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 23 Dec 2021, 02:48but the Pattinson era is very appealing to me right now. A self contained setup that every Batman apart from Affleck had, removed from any other plans with room to expand and be its own thing. Pattinson's Bruce sounds very much like Keaton's from B89/BR, but darker. It represents a new beginning rather than a muddle. I'm cool with this being the main event.
Same. Pattinson's version is shaping up to be the Darkest Knight You Ever Saw.
Somehow, against all odds, I've become the guy who favors a self-contained/non-shared approach to these superhero films now. Weird. But there it is.
As a fan of Batman and not just one version of him, the new timeline presents itself as an exciting prospect. My ideal Pattinsonverse would be true separation. Time travel, other versions of heroes, etc don't exist even if Battinson isn't aware of it. There's planet Earth and that's it. The multiverse has its place in comic mythology, but with certain stories, such as those with heightened realism, it's counterproductive. It can't help but undermine a sense of individuality, at least for me, because other worlds are out there and yours becomes less special. I don't think the multiverse should be on the table there. Reeves doesn't have any convoluted timeline repair, just straight up solo Batman. Keaton is fantastic, and I'm eager to see him strut his stuff again. But I'm also feeling like the baton could have been passed.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Wed, 22 Dec 2021, 21:47Another idea I had was that it is possible that Zod exists in the 89 universe and it is in fact that universe that gets annihilated by him and causes Batman to make the sacrifice.
Consider this: What if in his attempt to make his own Justice League, Barry sets his team out out to save Supergirl from captivity as she will no doubt be the centerpiece, but in doing so he somehow awakens Earth-89's Zod.
These are credible scenarios. Though I would imagine the General Zod of the Burtonverse to be more like Terence Stamp's version than Shannon's. If they could get Stamp back as Zod, either digitally de-aged or just portraying an older version of the character exclusive to the Burtonverse, then that would be epic.
Not to alarm anyone, but my worst fear, the absolute worst case scenario we might be facing here, is that DC and WB are trying to purge the ranks of the Justice League of all straight white male heroes and replace them with diverse substitutes. If that's the case, then I can see them introducing an alternate timeline in which Shannon's Zod defeated Superman and Supergirl has to step up to take his place, and in which Batgirl has to seize the mantle of the bat from an old emasculated broken-down Bruce Wayne. This would be full Justice League Woke territory, positioning Supergirl and Batgirl as the new World's Finest, but I can't believe the studio would be reckless or insane enough to do it. Not when there's room for Superman, Supergirl, Batman and Batgirl to co-exist with equal dignity. Such an approach would destroy any goodwill garnered by Keaton's return and condemn the entire DCEU to ruin. So I don't really think it will happen. But it is a frightening possibility.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 22 Dec 2021, 23:33Wouldn't it be lovely if Burton somehow got roped into directing a Batman Beyond film?
That would be swell. Revisiting an earlier stage of his career might also provide the creative jolt Burton needs to get emotionally reinvested in his work. Since they're obviously trying to cash in on the nostalgia associated with the Keaton movies, the studio must be at least considering extending the olive branch to Burton. Hopefully enough time's passed since the Superman Lives debacle that he'd be willing to work for them again.
Quote from: The Joker on Wed, 22 Dec 2021, 23:34That's pretty much what I was getting at. Take the approach that Fox took with the X-Men films where Batman Beyond doesn't necessarily adhere to whatever continuity is "current" in the DCEU (so in other words, audiences would take note of continuity contradictions from any previous DCEU Keaton appearances). Essentially a LOGAN type of procedure that references the first film (B89 and perhaps some from BR), and that's it. Which would give the project, at the very least, the sentiment that a Keaton Batman Beyond is the *true* bookend to the Keaton's Batman within the Burtonverse.
Logan is a great analogy. I hadn't thought to cite that, but it's relationship to the earlier X-Men films – or more precisely, it's chronological distance from them – is exactly what we need from Batman Beyond.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 23 Dec 2021, 09:24
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 23 Dec 2021, 03:19
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 23 Dec 2021, 02:48but the Pattinson era is very appealing to me right now. A self contained setup that every Batman apart from Affleck had, removed from any other plans with room to expand and be its own thing. Pattinson's Bruce sounds very much like Keaton's from B89/BR, but darker. It represents a new beginning rather than a muddle. I'm cool with this being the main event.
Same. Pattinson's version is shaping up to be the Darkest Knight You Ever Saw.
Somehow, against all odds, I've become the guy who favors a self-contained/non-shared approach to these superhero films now. Weird. But there it is.
As a fan of Batman and not just one version of him, the new timeline presents itself as an exciting prospect. My ideal Pattinsonverse would be true separation. Time travel, other versions of heroes, etc don't exist even if Battinson isn't aware of it. There's planet Earth and that's it. The multiverse has its place in comic mythology, but with certain stories, such as those with heightened realism, it's counterproductive. It can't help but undermine a sense of individuality, at least for me, because other worlds are out there and yours becomes less special. I don't think the multiverse should be on the table there. Reeves doesn't have any convoluted timeline repair, just straight up solo Batman. Keaton is fantastic, and I'm eager to see him strut his stuff again. But I'm also feeling like the baton could have been passed.
My excitement for The Flash and Batgirl is entirely down to Keaton's involvement and the potential this creates for a proper Batman Beyond sequel to B89 and BR. Take Keaton away, and I couldn't care less about these films. Even with Keaton, my expectations regarding their quality are low. But I'm still looking forward to them.
With Reeves' The Batman, however, I think we're in for a genuinely good film. His trilogy has the potential to be the heir to Nolan's TDK trilogy in terms of quality. The fact it promises to be self-contained is a major plus point in its favour. The whole shared universe thing was a cool novelty ten years ago, but by now the novelty is wearing thin. I'm ready for a good old fashioned self-contained Batman movie, like the ones we got between 1989 and 2012.
A new outline of the Batgirl plot has leaked. It suggests that it will mostly be a detective story dividing its time between Firefly and the Falcones. As for Batman, he disappeared years ago, but inspired a new generation of Gotham heroes IE Canary and the folks from Bird's of Prey. Babs returns from college and despite James Gordon's protests, lands a desk job where she starts tracking a vengeful firefighter turned arch criminal. She crafts a makeshift batsuit to pursue him. Her use of the iconography gets her noticed by the big man and it turns out that the Canary is a go between, who trains her at the behest of Mister Wayne. When the day gets saved, Babs is dubbed Batman's successor.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu, 23 Dec 2021, 14:37
Not to alarm anyone, but my worst fear, the absolute worst case scenario we might be facing here, is that DC and WB are trying to purge the ranks of the Justice League of all straight white male heroes and replace them with diverse substitutes. If that's the case, then I can see them introducing an alternate timeline in which Shannon's Zod defeated Superman and Supergirl has to step up to take his place, and in which Batgirl has to seize the mantle of the bat from an old emasculated broken-down Bruce Wayne. This would be full Justice League Woke territory, positioning Supergirl and Batgirl as the new World's Finest, but I can't believe the studio would be reckless or insane enough to do it. Not when there's room for Superman, Supergirl, Batman and Batgirl to co-exist with equal dignity. Such an approach would destroy any goodwill garnered by Keaton's return and condemn the entire DCEU to ruin. So I don't really think it will happen. But it is a frightening possibility.
Just watch them do exactly this. I believe it's going to happen, and I have thought that for a while. Shared universes work, but only when the original plan is adhered to. Once the studio made the decision to walk away from The Snyder Plan, they should've just abandoned the DCEU altogether rather than creating this Frankenstein monster. I also believe if any Beyond themed movie is made it won't be what we want. Such a shame Keaton's return had to be in this context.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu, 23 Dec 2021, 14:37
With Reeves' The Batman, however, I think we're in for a genuinely good film. His trilogy has the potential to be the heir to Nolan's TDK trilogy in terms of quality. The fact it promises to be self-contained is a major plus point in its favour. The whole shared universe thing was a cool novelty ten years ago, but by now the novelty is wearing thin. I'm ready for a good old fashioned self-contained Batman movie, like the ones we got between 1989 and 2012.
The Batman universe is the
only thing I'm interested in now, DC wise.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu, 23 Dec 2021, 14:37
Not to alarm anyone, but my worst fear, the absolute worst case scenario we might be facing here, is that DC and WB are trying to purge the ranks of the Justice League of all straight white male heroes and replace them with diverse substitutes. If that's the case, then I can see them introducing an alternate timeline in which Shannon's Zod defeated Superman and Supergirl has to step up to take his place, and in which Batgirl has to seize the mantle of the bat from an old emasculated broken-down Bruce Wayne. This would be full Justice League Woke territory, positioning Supergirl and Batgirl as the new World's Finest, but I can't believe the studio would be reckless or insane enough to do it. Not when there's room for Superman, Supergirl, Batman and Batgirl to co-exist with equal dignity. Such an approach would destroy any goodwill garnered by Keaton's return and condemn the entire DCEU to ruin. So I don't really think it will happen. But it is a frightening possibility.
This wretched studio sabotaged Justice League and denied the Snyder cut's existence for four years, wrecked Ayer's Suicide Squad and openly refused to release his cut, fired Ray Fisher from The Flash, forced Zack to remove John Stewart from his cut of JL...and you don't think they would be insane or reckless enough to even entertain the idea of using woke politics to reboot DC on film?
Don't be naive.
They've ruined all the goodwill they gained with ZSJL with their hostility towards everyone associated with that film - including the fans - throughout 2021. So I'd have no doubt they'd want do the same thing with Keaton's return. After all, what better way is there to fight off all of this discrimination backlash than weaponising woke politics to appear progressive? That's how spiteful and low this studio is. Why do you think we have not one, but TWO black Superman projects? If Toxic WB were really that progressive, a John Stewart-led GL project and a Steel reboot connected to the original DCEU would've been made years ago.
I'm still shaking my head with disbelief over Keaton's involvement in Batgirl, and the rumours of him serving as an inspiration/mentor to Black Canary in that film is eye-rolling. Besides, I thought Dinah Laurel Lance's inspiration was her mother Dinah Drake, before she takes over the mantle of Black Canary? Having Keaton doing this instead makes me suspect this has nothing to do with the Burtonverse Batman at all. After all, JK Simmons was quoted saying Batgirl is a "multiverse" story. The more I read too much into it, the more I believe Simmons, Keaton and maybe even Jurnee Smollett aren't "reprising" their characters from their previous appearances, but playing different variations of these characters in the multiverse.
That's the only logical reason I can think of, because Keaton in Batgirl makes NO f***ing sense whatsoever. Even if Batgirl was supposed to lead up to The Flash, why have Keaton in it? Doesn't that spoil any potential excitement for his role in The Flash? Assuming if Batgirl still gets made released this year before Flash comes out, of course.
This is all going to be disaster. I'm not kidding when I say this could permanently destroy the DC brand, not just Burtonverse and Snyderverse. Unless A&T, and Discovery steps in once the merger is completed, the current regime at Toxic WB will burn DC to the ground.
If Keaton's Batman gets the Jake Skywalker treatment in any of these upcoming films, nobody should hesitate to hold Keaton partly responsible for such a mess. He didn't
need to come back, and he would've known where the direction of his character was going before he signed on. If results are unflattering then he too must shoulder some of the blame, because that would mean he traded the integrity of his Batman for a quick buck.
Quote from: ViewerAnon
If the DCEU semi-reboot rumors are true, what happens to Cyborg? Because if Ray Fisher is canonically erased after the last 18 months, that would look... not great to anyone who isn't paid by WarnerMedia.
https://twitter.com/ViewerAnon/status/1477476637960810499
I agree with what he says in this tweet, but I thought this guy supposedly knows what's going with this movie?
Meanwhile, Ezra Miller was allegedly asked by a fan via a DM on Instagram if the rumours of the Snyderverse getting erased was true, and he apparently says it's bogus. I can't tell though if this screenshot is legit or not.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FIE2-23XsAIDY0E?format=jpg)
https://twitter.com/FlashFilmNews/status/1477522609789190146
After the whole Josstice L fiasco, I've learned by now to never take actors' word for anything. Four years ago, the cast had praised Whedon for finishing Snyder's story, and look how that turned out.
Since everyone else is chiming in...
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu, 23 Dec 2021, 14:37Not to alarm anyone, but my worst fear, the absolute worst case scenario we might be facing here, is that DC and WB are trying to purge the ranks of the Justice League of all straight white male heroes and replace them with diverse substitutes. If that's the case, then I can see them introducing an alternate timeline in which Shannon's Zod defeated Superman and Supergirl has to step up to take his place, and in which Batgirl has to seize the mantle of the bat from an old emasculated broken-down Bruce Wayne. This would be full Justice League Woke territory, positioning Supergirl and Batgirl as the new World's Finest, but I can't believe the studio would be reckless or insane enough to do it. Not when there's room for Superman, Supergirl, Batman and Batgirl to co-exist with equal dignity. Such an approach would destroy any goodwill garnered by Keaton's return and condemn the entire DCEU to ruin. So I don't really think it will happen. But it is a frightening possibility.
We're going there, huh?
Originally, I didn't feel like responding to this. As you may recall, I've got a bit of a sour taste in my mouth about all things superhero these days. And certain other members here have gone overboard on the doom-saying and the nasty prognostications. So, what else was left?
But to your point tho, you use the word "possibility". If we're being honest, "likelihood" probably would've been the better word. My view is that it's just a matter of time until this happens. And since forum rules probably prevent us from speaking entirely openly about this issue, maybe it's enough to say that this course of action is inevitable. Even if it doesn't happen with Flashpoint (or whatever this thing is called), it will happen.
In fact, I've even wondered if this agenda isn't partly the reason behind the Snyderverse antipathy at WB.
Bottom line, this is coming. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but it's coming. Be sure of that. As I said some other time, this is the main reason I'm not vocally demanding a Batman Beyond film. Because we all know which direction they'll go with Terry McGinnis. Without getting too specific, a live action version in 2022 won't look, sound or behave very much like Will Friedle.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 2 Jan 2022, 09:16
As I said some other time, this is the main reason I'm not vocally demanding a Batman Beyond film. Because we all know which direction they'll go with Terry McGinnis. Without getting too specific, a live action version in 2022 won't look, sound or behave very much like Will Friedle.
If the rumours of Keaton's Bruce training the likes of Batgirl and Black Canary are true, it's probably now unlikely that Batman Beyond with Terry McGinnis will ever happen. I'm not even sure if ANY version of Batman Beyond will see the light of day, because the rumours surrounding Keaton sound like they're trying to reverse roles, with Bruce serving the role as Oracle and Batgirl is Batman's replacement.
What a clusterf***.
I saw this tweet by the unofficial Flash Film News account giving an update on the alleged Ezra Miller DM screenshot.
Quote
Some have taken this as debunking yesterday's reports & that wasn't our intent. The rumors are true. #TheFlash will establish a new DCEU universe. However, this new continuity will preserve the world that Snyder built⚡️
https://www.twitter.com/FlashFilmNews/status/1477662652738543623
Again,
what a clusterf***! Even if the Snyderverse doesn't get erased, does anyone seriously trust their ability to create a new DC timeline after hearing all of these rumours?
This movie is dead on arrival.
Those shill douchebags at the blog site Heroic Hollywood entertained the latest rumours by Grace Randolph:
Quote
Could this be the new DCEU trinity?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FIDyT9BXIAAMf90?format=jpg)
https://www.twitter.com/heroichollywood/status/1477447151156449280
No thank you. I'm not interested in seeing the World's Finest getting gender-swapped by Emmerich and co looking to cover their discriminating asses. Nor am I interested in the idea of Keaton's Bruce becoming the male equivalent of Oracle to satisfy such an agenda.
lol, I wish I could say, "I can't believe this is true", but I totally can. I also wish I could be angry about this, but it's just par for the course now. I just have to laugh at it and not support this in any way.
Such a monumentally bad idea. lol
Quote from: Travesty on Mon, 3 Jan 2022, 17:09
lol, I wish I could say, "I can't believe this is true", but I totally can. I also wish I could be angry about this, but it's just par for the course now. I just have to laugh at it and not support this in any way.
Such a monumentally bad idea. lol
This is the best way to be. I'm largely numb to the modern clown world now, and merely look at things as a detached observer. Spider-Man: No Way Home wasn't entirely to my liking, but the handling of their characters is light years better than what The Flash apparently offers. I'm still curious to see Keaton's initial scenes, but the gut punch is knowing it leads to girl power and diversity. Despite that, I still have the front seat in The Pattinson Train. I've had it even before day one. Bravo to Matt Reeves for ensuring his continuity is completely disconnected from the twisted metal DCEU.
As much as I despise TMZ for being the gossip dumpster fire they are, props to them for reporting the general consensus towards these rumours:
Quote
You can hop onto the Twitter-verse yourself and read up on how folks are reacting to this would-be news ... and you'll quickly see, they think Warner is sticking its head in the sand on what the people really want.
And that would be ... more Superman, more Batman and more of what Snyder teased before stepping away from DC.
https://web.archive.org/web/20220103165213/https://www.tmz.com/2022/01/02/dceu-future-flash-rumors-affleck-cavill-batman-superman-warner-bros/
I've seen very few people who are excited by these rumours, even among the anti-Snyder camp.
If these rumours are true then I'm convinced Toxic WB are trying to damage DC as a viable IP. But even if the rumours are false, The Flash has a dark cloud hanging all over it thanks to WB's gross mismanagement. The people in charge of that studio need to GTFO.
I think it says a lot that even if these rumors are total bs, nobody is putting it past WB to pull something like this.
If I'm the head of a major movie studio and I see that fans -- ostensibly my core audience -- are expecting the worst from me, I would consider that a problem that needs to be solved asap.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 4 Jan 2022, 02:08
I think it says a lot that even if these rumors are total bs, nobody is putting it past WB to pull something like this.
If I'm the head of a major movie studio and I see that fans -- ostensibly my core audience -- are expecting the worst from me, I would consider that a problem that needs to be solved asap.
If ever a film needed reshoots, it's now. But there won't be. The Flash will go down like a lead balloon with the fans. Ideally the Snyderverse would have continued, but when the decision was made to move on, they should have truly moved on and scrapped any semblance of DCEU continuity.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Tue, 4 Jan 2022, 02:30Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 4 Jan 2022, 02:08I think it says a lot that even if these rumors are total bs, nobody is putting it past WB to pull something like this.
If I'm the head of a major movie studio and I see that fans -- ostensibly my core audience -- are expecting the worst from me, I would consider that a problem that needs to be solved asap.
If ever a film needed reshoots, it's now. But there won't be. The Flash will go down like a lead balloon with the fans. Ideally the Snyderverse would have continued, but when the decision was made to move on, they should have truly moved on and scrapped any semblance of DCEU continuity.
Mmm.
See, I think there was some effort to do just that. Josstice League crashed and burned so somebody rolled JOKER and The Batman into production. But it's like everything else to do with WB, everything was done half-ass. Gal Gadot and Jason Momoa kept their roles because "they were the successful parts".
Seems strangely fitting in a way since this mix-and-match approach also created absolute chaos after Crisis On Infinite Earths in the comics, where some characters got Page 1 reboots (Superman), other characters got warm reboots (Batman) and quite a few characters weren't rebooted at all (The Flash, Legion Of Super-Heroes). The ones that weren't scorched Earth rebooted tended to suffer greatly.
And here we are going through essentially the same thing with the movies. The Reeves Batman film looks like the only clear winner going on right now.
Egg-xactly. How much longer does this corpse drag itself along the glass strewn concrete? Especially when you'll have Snyder and Burton fans screaming at the top of their lungs into maximum volume bullhorns about the mistreatment of their icons. Do they decide to finally cut the cord then, or do they defiantly push on? The coming years will tell the story. I do think the mountain will eventually crumble into the sea, but I won't shed a tear. I'll be swinging on a hammock in the jungle canopy eating popcorn. And perhaps the odd mango and pineapple. The DCEU isn't worth getting worked up over, really. Just look at it with bemused indifference.
What remains?
The Batman, it's sequels and HBO Max shows.
Batman: Caped Crusader - mesa hoping Jar Jar gets banished again if he screw this up.
JOKER 2 for the fact Phoenix is a slam dunk actor and the tone would be similar to the original film and The Batman.
Anything else is locked up in the DCEU prison while those outside the bars point and laugh.
Grace Randolph must be feeling the heat for tweeting those rumours, because now she's feuding with Snyderverse fans and telling them to move on.
It was only nearly a year ago she urged everyone to keep the hype up as soon as ZSJL came out.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FISAu5eXEAgvyiC?format=jpg)
Something tells me the studio must be threatening to take her access media privileges away, because the rumours not only spread to TMZ, even outlets like Forbes have been reporting it. YouTubers like Randoplh are so full of sh*t, so it wouldn't surprise me if she was ordered to discourage the fans. I'm not saying she's right or wrong about The Flash, but she has a horrible track record with her scoops, such as declaring WW84 would be a Flashpoint event rebooting DC and there would be dick pics in BOP, which director Cathy Yan called her out saying it's false.
Meanwhile, it appears Zack Snyder has urged fans not to give up hope on restoring the Snyderverse just yet, as he had been sharing DC-related pictures on VERO over the last few weeks.
(https://geekositymag.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/Zack-Snyder-Tells-Fans-To-Never-Lose-Faith-In-His-DCEU-Return-04.jpg)
Excuse the link, I couldn't find other outlets reporting this:
https://geekositymag.com/zack-snyder-tells-fans-to-never-lose-faith-in-his-dceu-return/
I've heard now that WB loves the Flash. BIG RUMOR, but it is now gaining traction from multiple insiders:
Andy Muschietti has been offered the chair for the Justice League Reboot movie working under the presumptive title, Rebirth.
Oh jesus.....
Both Ben Affleck and Keaton are satisfied with what the filmed which is honestly enough for me.
Affleck has closure and had a good time filming and Keaton was impressed. Thats whats important (espeshally in regards to Affleck whos unesserily been around the ring playing Batman)
Snyder doing Wonder Woman 3 does seem interesting but I'll wait and see on that.
Keaton and Affleck may very well be satisfied with what they filmed. Affleck is probably more relieved to be done with the whole thing. My chief concern is where the overall journey of the film leads. The vibe I can't shake is that our entertainment has become incidental to politics. Before a sporting event we have kneeling or some other message being tacked on. For me, an all female/diversity League cannot be anything other than the studio pushing 'entertainment on our terms'. Batman and Superman have always been the main members, with any other characters existing but being in the background. Look at how existing norms have to be distorted for abnormal setups to be implemented.
Quote from: Travesty on Fri, 7 Jan 2022, 15:27
Oh jesus.....
Let me guess, not a fan of the the Justice League reboot rumour? Well, I heard another rumour they want Geoff Johns as a producer.
What a hideous joke that would be if that were true. With the exception of the Aquaman movie he co-wrote, every other DC production that Johns was credited for has been a complete disaster. The 2011 Green Lantern movie he produced was a box office bomb, Josstice League was another bomb he produced, which cost him his job as the head of DC Films. Not to mention he was singled out for enabling Whedon's mistreatment of people behind the scenes - as well as being one of the key culprits for causing internal sabotage within the whole DC franchise. Finally, he took credit for WW2017's success while he was running with this "hope and optimism" agenda to the media during his time as DC Films prez, only to co-write WW84 - a sequel that's considered to be a serious backward step and a letdown for Wonder Woman as a franchise.
Even if you still somehow don't believe what Ray Fisher has been saying, can you seriously look at Johns' track record and say he should still work in film production? He has cost that damn studio so much money over the last decade. But at the same time, it wouldn't at all be surprising if he does become a producer again, when the egotistical f***heads in charge have mismanaged not only DC, but WB as a brand name for years. After all, Johns is still working on DC's TV productions. These people protect each other.
So yeah, if you don't have any faith in Warner Butchers having praise for what they've done to The Flash, I'm with you.
Meanwhile, I saw transcripts from Ben Affleck speaking to the Australian newspaper Herald Sun and the LA Times, and he speaks a little about Batman while promoting The Tender Bar, and looking back at his life and career so far. I can't link the HR article because it's blocked by a paywall at this point in time, but I'll share this interesting screenshot from that interview.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FIeCaNhWYAMHqfT?format=jpg)
These quotes stick out as a red flag to me. If Affleck is unsure the material he enjoyed doing as Batman will even be included in the final cut then this film is very compromised. It doesn't sound like a ringing endorsement to me.
If I can find complete access to the HR article, I'll share it on this thread. But in the meantime, here is a snippet from Affleck's interview with LA Times:
Quote
In 2016, I interviewed you three times — for "Batman v Superman," "The Accountant" and "Live by Night" — and I got the sense that you were under a lot of pressure. Shortly after that, you dropped out of directing and starring in "The Batman" and sought treatment for your drinking. Was that when your priorities changed?
Directing "Batman" is a good example. I looked at it and thought, "I'm not going to be happy doing this. The person who does this should love it." You're supposed to always want these things, and I probably would have loved doing it at 32 or something. But it was the point where I started to realize it's not worth it. It's just a wonderful benefit of reorienting and recalibrating your priorities that once it started being more about the experience, I felt more at ease.
It was really "Justice League" that was the nadir for me. That was a bad experience because of a confluence of things: my own life, my divorce, being away too much, the competing agendas and then [director] Zack [Snyder]'s personal tragedy [Snyder's daughter Autumn died by suicide in 2017] and the reshooting. It just was the worst experience. It was awful. It was everything that I didn't like about this. That became the moment where I said, "I'm not doing this anymore." It's not even about, like, "Justice League" was so bad. Because it could have been anything.
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/movies/story/2022-01-07/ben-affleck-tender-bar-amazon?_amp=true
I don't understand why he decided to come back for The Flash. If he were truly finished playing the role and didn't want to do it anymore, it would've made much more sense if ZSJL was his farewell. That way, I could understand the argument he came back to film those epilogue scenes during lockdown as a favour for Zack, rather than planning to return on a recurring basis.
Affleck knows more than anyone how Warner operates nowadays, and after his experience with JL turned sour because of those reshoots and the competing agendas - as he says - behind the scenes, I'd be shocked if he willingly returned to the role one more time as some misguided sendoff, when he risks being the brunt of the joke and petty sabotage yet again.
Plus, Zack Snyder - as well as Ray Fisher, Ray Porter, Wayne T. Carr and Clay Staub - have been sharing pro-Snyderverse stuff on social media, some of them tweeted #RestoreTheSnyderVerse. Even if Affleck decided he didn't want to come back any more, I still have a hard time believing he would participate in a film which is rumoured to be a big FU to everything he and Snyder had done.
I can't blame Affleck for leaving four years ago, now I know the studio has burned so many bridges with so many people over the years, in addition to the personal problems he was having. But I am very confused over why he'd even want to return for The Flash - even as a farewell - when he doesn't seem certain if his best work in that film will make the final cut. You know, if they were planning to kill characters off and rebooting the universe, it would make a lot more sense if this film was called Crisis, Flashpoint or whatever, instead of officially calling it "The Flash". What a misnomer.
I repeat, the way this is going, this movie will be even bigger bomb and a big PR black eye than Josstice League.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOWwo8F3ax4
The Flash is getting a three issue prequel comic and the premise states "when a new threat by the name of Girder emerges in Central City, Barry turns to Batman for advice on training to master his powers. Under the Dark Knight's tutelage, The Fastest Man Alive will have to find a way to defeat this metallic menace or be crushed by Girder's strength." It sure does point to Batfleck beginning the film as a mentor figure to Barry before the timeline tinkering takes place.
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Sat, 22 Jan 2022, 01:49
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOWwo8F3ax4
I appreciate Keaton's enthusiasm and all, but I doubt this movie is going to be good if any of these rumours are true. This Facebook comment sums it up.
(https://i.imgur.com/dszTRNx.jpg)
The Flash will reportedly have a test screening today. Spoilers likely inbound.
The scoopers got scooped. Shazam 2 was the film test screened.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Thu, 27 Jan 2022, 14:25
The scoopers got scooped. Shazam 2 was the film test screened.
Indeed. The wait for real details continues. I still find it mind bending how a film can essentially be complete and stored on the shelf for months on end, while people are sitting down to watch it right now. Film truly is a moment in time preserved forever.
Take it with a grain of salt, but I heard a private screening among executives occurred over a week ago. Rumour has it the movie will undergo reshoots and get pushed back to 2023, and that might affect the other DC movies' release dates.
Don't know how reliable this rumour is, but it wouldn't really surprise me. We know this wretched studio's history with reshoots by now.
There was also a rumor that it's 3 hours long and the studio loved it and wanted more of it so they're dong reshoots for that.
Really not trusting many of leaks after the last few movies I saw the leakes were totally off
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Sat, 29 Jan 2022, 18:39
There was also a rumor that it's 3 hours long and the studio loved it and wanted more of it so they're dong reshoots for that.
The rumour I heard said the opposite. It alleges the film still needs a lot of work and there are tonal issues. Part goofy, part serious. I don't see how doing reshoots would make sense if they were happy with the cut so far.
The other rumour I heard is Keaton and Affleck don't even interact with each other. Affleck probably spent, at best, a week filming his scenes, so I can definitely believe that's true. And what an utter failure that would be too. It's already bad enough that Affleck has expressed his concerns his favourite scenes might not even make the final cut.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sun, 30 Jan 2022, 12:04
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Sat, 29 Jan 2022, 18:39
There was also a rumor that it's 3 hours long and the studio loved it and wanted more of it so they're dong reshoots for that.
The rumour I heard said the opposite. It alleges the film still needs a lot of work and there are tonal issues. Part goofy, part serious. I don't see how doing reshoots would make sense if they were happy with the cut so far.
The other rumour I heard is Keaton and Affleck don't even interact with each other. Affleck probably spent, at best, a week filming his scenes, so I can definitely believe that's true. And what an utter failure that would be too. It's already bad enough that Affleck has expressed his concerns his favourite scenes might not even make the final cut.
I mean, reshoots can also mean adding more character time or making streamline changes (ala Days of Future Past reshoots). Regardless, I've come to really not rely on leaks and find them to become more and more mixed (not sure who your source is, just my general experience) and in some cases, 100% fabricated to cause internet drama
They're also filming Batgirl, which might impact changes in Flash (and one reason why I don't like this Marvel style of film making).
Ofcourse this is all speculation on my part
Quote from: Kamdan on Thu, 16 Dec 2021, 15:35
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Wed, 15 Dec 2021, 16:37
There is an interview going around that quotes Ben Affleck saying that he is done doing IPs. "I don't want to do IP movies where you have this sort of built-in audience. That's something I was interested in and liked, and I just don't like it anymore."
Would Affleck be saying these things if the IP movies he was involved in were successful?
I can't believe I missed this comment.
I get you don't like Affleck. But considering that he and other JL cast members like Fisher, Gadot and Momoa went on public condemning the BTS experience during those reshoots, your comment is tone deaf, to say the least.
Jesus Christ.
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Sun, 30 Jan 2022, 16:21
Ofcourse this is all speculation on my part
I understand, and I'm doing the same. I'm not a scooper, I'm only sharing what I heard online too. For all I know, the rumour you heard could be right.
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Sun, 30 Jan 2022, 16:21
They're also filming Batgirl, which might impact changes in Flash (and one reason why I don't like this Marvel style of film making).
Better get used to it, because that's exactly what Warner Butchers are aiming for. Look at the amount of content that's coming out this year alone. They're very desperate.
Speaking of which, I noticed that Jeanette Agaronoff - who is Michael Keaton's production assistant on The Flash - is listed under the additional crew credits for Aquaman 2 on IMDB. She is credited with the description: "production assistant to Michael Keaton ".
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9663764/fullcredits?ref_=tt_cl_sm
Assuming this info is correct, Keaton's Batman is supposed to appear in Aquaman too. Seems like the studio is pilfering old ideas, because this concept art for the first Aquaman movie featured the Flying Fox from JL flying over Sydney. It seems the entire Justice League as well as Batfleck were planned to make an appearance in the solo movie.
(https://i.imgur.com/jJ1f2gf.jpg)
This picture was made in late 2016: https://www.ednatividad.com/#/531533/4400589/
I much prefer this than retrofitting Keaton into whatever this DC timeline is. What a bastardised mess.
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Sun, 30 Jan 2022, 16:21
I mean, reshoots can also mean adding more character time or making streamline changes (ala Days of Future Past reshoots). Regardless, I've come to really not rely on leaks and find them to become more and more mixed (not sure who your source is, just my general experience) and in some cases, 100% fabricated to cause internet drama
They're also filming Batgirl, which might impact changes in Flash (and one reason why I don't like this Marvel style of film making).
Ofcourse this is all speculation on my part
I watched the Back to the Future movies again after a number of years. They're great, obviously. But what struck me is how much I respect 'The End' statement at the end of Part 3. They really meant it. BTTF is a late 80s franchise of pure nostalgia frozen in time, and that's a large reason why we love it. It's of its era and comes with distinctive charm. The same applies to the Indiana Jones films, which should have stopped after The Last Crusade. Revisiting something is very rarely the same 20 or 30 years after the fact.
As an aside, the BTTF films also highlight to me how plot conveniences can be valuable in storytelling to heighten a mood or theme, as well as humor. They shouldn't always be fought if the result is enjoyable overall. Film
is heightened reality.
What I'm getting at here is Keaton coming back as Batman after 30 years. I think he can deliver a good performance. But a lot depends on the atmosphere that gets created around him. I still have Keaton at the top of my actor ranking, and have zero shame in admitting nostalgia of the 1990s plays a part in that. I don't think the Burton vibe can be replicated, or our expectations realistically met. But if our childhoods can be satisfied even for a brief moment, perhaps it will be worth it. Because the movie is coming out anyway.
I'm already expecting both Batmans to be bad in Flash. If it turns out to be good or decent, I'll recognize it. I never lie about my opinion if it turns out I'm wrong. I do it all the time here, lol.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 4 Feb 2022, 08:36
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Sun, 30 Jan 2022, 16:21
I mean, reshoots can also mean adding more character time or making streamline changes (ala Days of Future Past reshoots). Regardless, I've come to really not rely on leaks and find them to become more and more mixed (not sure who your source is, just my general experience) and in some cases, 100% fabricated to cause internet drama
They're also filming Batgirl, which might impact changes in Flash (and one reason why I don't like this Marvel style of film making).
Ofcourse this is all speculation on my part
I watched the Back to the Future movies again after a number of years. They're great, obviously. But what struck me is how much I respect 'The End' statement at the end of Part 3. They really meant it. BTTF is a late 80s franchise of pure nostalgia frozen in time, and that's a large reason why we love it. It's of its era and comes with distinctive charm. The same applies to the Indiana Jones films, which should have stopped after The Last Crusade. Revisiting something is very rarely the same 20 or 30 years after the fact.
As an aside, the BTTF films also highlight to me how plot conveniences can be valuable in storytelling to heighten a mood or theme, as well as humor. They shouldn't always be fought if the result is enjoyable overall. Film is heightened reality.
What I'm getting at here is Keaton coming back as Batman after 30 years. I think he can deliver a good performance. But a lot depends on the atmosphere that gets created around him. I still have Keaton at the top of my actor ranking, and have zero shame in admitting nostalgia of the 1990s plays a part in that. I don't think the Burton vibe can be replicated, or our expectations realistically met. But if our childhoods can be satisfied even for a brief moment, perhaps it will be worth it. Because the movie is coming out anyway.
Michael Keaton did say this "[It was] weirdly and ironically easy. A little bit emotional. Just a rush of memories. Without giving anything away, which I can't, basically the first shot, not of the entire movie but let's say the introduction [of Batman], is so good that when we walked on and started talking about a couple of shots and the angles, I went 'whoa, this is big. This is great.' I don't even mean for me. Just the imagery, it's great. And reminiscent, to some degree, of Tim Burton."
https://collider.com/michael-keaton-batman-the-flash-movie-first-scene-comments/
"There's no reason to do it if it's not good. It's not gonna really change anything. And I just jumped in and had fun. And why would you not? You know, I mean, director Andy Muschietti is fantastic, and he's really creative. I don't know. It's fun."
https://movieweb.com/michael-keaton-praises-the-flash-director-his-fun-batman-return/
"I have never said this — this is hot off the presses — but maybe my favorite scenes in terms of Batman and the interpretation of Batman that I have done were in the Flash movie," Affleck told The Herald Sun (via Variety.) "I hope they maintain the integrity of what we did because I thought it was great and really interesting — different, but not in a way that is incongruent with the character....Who knows? Maybe they will decide that it doesn't work... But when I went and did it, it was really fun and really, really satisfying and encouraging, and I thought, 'Wow — I think I have finally figured it out" - Ben Affleck
https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/ben-affleck-called-batman-flash-favorite-interpretation-character.html/
These are the quotes im really holding on in terms of what to expect from the movie.
Most important thing for me is that Michael Keatons standards for the character are high (enought to drop out of doing Forever over tonal issues) and most importantly, Afflect having a good time with the character that has given him so much baggege (both the inital reaction to RVS and the mess that was Justice League reshoots). The man deserves atleast that much.
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Fri, 4 Feb 2022, 17:35
Most important thing for me is that Michael Keatons standards for the character are high (enought to drop out of doing Forever over tonal issues) and most importantly, Afflect having a good time with the character that has given him so much baggege (both the inital reaction to RVS and the mess that was Justice League reshoots). The man deserves atleast that much.
Josstice League has taught me to never take actors' words for granted. The cast once praised Whedon for getting involved in those reshoots, and look what happened. Affleck expressing doubts over his favourite scenes making the final cut is already a red flag.
That being said, Ezra Miller shared this curious Instagram story in reaction to Affleck's alleged swansong in The Flash.
https://comicbook.com/dc/news/the-flash-star-ezra-miller-doubts-ben-affleck-done-playing-batman/
Miller is an eccentric guy though, so I'm not sure if anyone should take him seriously.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sun, 6 Feb 2022, 05:12
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Fri, 4 Feb 2022, 17:35
Most important thing for me is that Michael Keatons standards for the character are high (enought to drop out of doing Forever over tonal issues) and most importantly, Afflect having a good time with the character that has given him so much baggege (both the inital reaction to RVS and the mess that was Justice League reshoots). The man deserves atleast that much.
Josstice League has taught me to never take actors' words for granted. The cast once praised Whedon for getting involved in those reshoots, and look what happened. Affleck expressing doubts over his favourite scenes making the final cut is already a red flag.
That being said, Ezra Miller shared this curious Instagram story in reaction to Affleck's alleged swansong in The Flash.
https://comicbook.com/dc/news/the-flash-star-ezra-miller-doubts-ben-affleck-done-playing-batman/
Miller is an eccentric guy though, so I'm not sure if anyone should take him seriously.
Very true, but there still is Keaton, he could of easily passed but I don't see him doing somthing with Batman (or Bettlejuice) without feeling like it's worth it. He did have to re-read the script before officially signing on but it seems the time travel universe jumps went (and are) over his head lol
edit:
This has a new shot of the flash and a new feature on his suit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPxheU-E0Tg
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Sat, 12 Feb 2022, 00:47
Very true, but there still is Keaton, he could of easily passed but I don't see him doing somthing with Batman (or Bettlejuice) without feeling like it's worth it. He did have to re-read the script before officially signing on but it seems the time travel universe jumps went (and are) over his head lol
Pardon my cynicism, but when you're offered a lucrative multi-picture deal it's hard to talk bad about it.
That's not a knock on Keaton, by the way. If I were in his position, I'd would've accepted the deal too. I'm just not so crazy about the potential pitfalls his character will likely be facing, and if Tim Burton isn't involved in a consultant level then it makes the comeback even less appealing. Nevertheless, let's see if any of the rumoured plans surrounding Keaton will happen once the Discovery merger is complete. All we know so far he's in Flash and, for better or worse, Batgirl.
As for the latest look at Miller's new Flash costume, I'm still not feeling it. Maybe if the shot didn't look like the CW TV show I might like it better. This is the second time I get CW vibes from this movie, the sneak peak trailer looked like it was from a TV show. Even the music sounded very similar to the Arrowverse Flash theme.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BNzlkNmM2MGEtN2JlYS00NmVjLWEwNDYtZmEzMTk1YTQ4ZmExXkEyXkFqcGdeQWRvb2xpbmhk._V1_.jpg)
True, but he was also in a multi-picture deal (Im sure with alot of money on the table) at the height of his career and still backed out of Forever (which was a hit at the time) because he did not like the direction the films were going. He could have also of said "no" to WB as he's in a semi-comeback and locked with Marvel so I'm sure there money is fine right now. Granted, there are defintly Keaton movies where he must be like "I want a new horse or camping gear, what films are available". :D
Yea, I'll be 100% honest, it wasnt until my 3rd watch that I realized it wasnt from the show lol.
On a sidenote, found this (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FGw5lBQVUAY33jj?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Not official:
https://twitter.com/ReevzFX/status/1471614698160222209?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1471614698160222209%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwhatculture.com%2Ffilm%2Fhow-michael-keatons-batman-will-look-under-the-cowl-in-the-flash
Edit:
Pictures of Keaton (?) on set in Batgirl have surfaced. Gonna post here the link as to not spoil for anyone
https://twitter.com/batgirlfilm/status/1492658389318574084?s=25
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Sat, 12 Feb 2022, 16:16
Pictures of Keaton (?) on set in Batgirl have surfaced. Gonna post here the link as to not spoil for anyone
https://twitter.com/batgirlfilm/status/1492658389318574084?s=25
As nice as it is to see him back in the costume, all this does make me wish we got Batman 3 directed by Burton or Batman Beyond, instead of this jumbled mess they're going with.
Looks like he might be wearing The Flash Batman suit in the Batgirl flashbacks
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FLq2XrwXwAIlAG2?format=jpg&name=4096x4096
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FLqqZ_DXsAEpP0x?format=jpg&name=small
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FLqqYZFXIAoCmrU?format=jpg&name=small
Enhanced photo (?) https://i.postimg.cc/FR1mN1xk/E93191-DA-5516-489-F-A77-B-B223-AA0-BE28-F.jpg
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Tue, 15 Feb 2022, 22:54
Looks like he might be wearing The Flash Batman suit in the Batgirl flashbacks
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FLq2XrwXwAIlAG2?format=jpg&name=4096x4096
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FLqqZ_DXsAEpP0x?format=jpg&name=small
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FLqqYZFXIAoCmrU?format=jpg&name=small
Enhanced photo (?) https://i.postimg.cc/FR1mN1xk/E93191-DA-5516-489-F-A77-B-B223-AA0-BE28-F.jpg
Really good catch.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 4 Jan 2022, 02:08
I think it says a lot that even if these rumors are total bs, nobody is putting it past WB to pull something like this.
If I'm the head of a major movie studio and I see that fans -- ostensibly my core audience -- are expecting the worst from me, I would consider that a problem that needs to be solved asap.
Coming back to this post, I thought I'd share this unflattering tweet comparing the hype between Flash and Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness.
(https://i.imgur.com/U1Q7JH5.jpg)
https://twitter.com/ReturnOfTheKool/status/1493031425116942338
The amount of likes to this tweet...sh*t. I don't like seeing Keaton being the butt of a joke.
You might be tempted to say social media doesn't reflect real life. In many cases, the argument is valid. Nevertheless, this is yet another indication there is a lot of antipathy and angst towards this film, and the plot rumours certainly don't help.
An unpleasant state of affairs.
Sadly, I am not suprised. Really the only DC movie that had massive hipe was Wonder Woman 84.
Strange has the Marvel powerhouse, Sam Raimi (really the only reason why I want to see it) and coming off of Spider-man now way home.
It's not No way home, but I'm seeing people already make comparisons.
Quote from: Travesty on Fri, 4 Feb 2022, 14:52
I'm already expecting both Batmans to be bad in Flash. If it turns out to be good or decent, I'll recognize it. I never lie about my opinion if it turns out I'm wrong. I do it all the time here, lol.
I'd begin and end the film with Batfleck. The Batcycle chase and something towards the end when Barry accepts his friend is gone forever, as if he never existed. I'd go with a flashback of Bruce imparting some poignant message. Perhaps about never giving up hope and the power of uniting, given his experience in forming the Justice League. A stone cold dead Batman before a timeline merge requires something
really worthy, especially with a seasoned veteran like this one. If that isn't up to scratch, I'd rather Batfleck just be erased by default and not die in combat at all. With Barry going back in time to save family members and not Batfleck.
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Mon, 21 Feb 2022, 15:38
Sadly, I am not suprised. Really the only DC movie that had massive hipe was Wonder Woman 84.
Strange has the Marvel powerhouse, Sam Raimi (really the only reason why I want to see it) and coming off of Spider-man now way home.
It's not No way home, but I'm seeing people already make comparisons.
What's sad is for all the PR talk and spin over DC's multiverse, Marvel has already beaten them to the punch not once, but twice. DS2 was already announced in 2019, but Warner thought they had a slam dunk with Keaton's Batman appearing in The Flash in 2020. Instead, the film got delayed, and Marvel/Sony made NWH during that time. The DS2 reshoots are rumoured not because the movie was significantly changed, but they wanted to add even more cameos in the Marvel multiverse.
I haven't seen NWH, but at this stage, I'm now more inclined to watch that movie instead of The Flash. I can't guarantee if DS2 will do something drastic like the killing off of Fox's X-Men characters that was rumoured a while ago, but as I said before - from what I've heard of NWH, it's a love letter to all things Spider-Man. The way The Flash is shaping up and going by the Batgirl follow-up, it will be anything but. It will be very divisive to say the least. Looking back, I do think it's rather rich of people to complain about BvS killing Superman in his second movie, but don't seem to be bothered that Flash's first solo movie is looking to retcon the entire universe while introducing new (and potentially killing old) characters along the way. Hmm.
I know Keaton will be playing another version of Batman in Batgirl, but I'm starting to think that version will debut in The Flash. I'm not even sure if we're going to see the Burtonverse version one more time, knowing how this wretched studio is.
This gif of Chris Farley sums up my reaction to how this movie seems to be unfolding, both as a response to stuff behind the scenes and apparent plot details. From initial excitement to downright disillusionment that had been growing over time.
(https://i.gifer.com/7DRp.gif)
Again, it's an unpleasant state of affairs.
One of the things that made Spider-man NWH (at least for me) is that they handled nostalgia right. It wasn't just fan service. The other, more important thing, is that they finally got Peter Parker down. When it came out I saw people say that the 3 movies were a slow burning origin (they weren't, and if they were it was bad writing). Marvel does often get a pass on the same stuff DC tried (with the accept ion of Eternals) *cough big CG battles*.
I remember people complaining that Avengers got away with what Shucumacher was equally getting slammed for (at that time) for his Batman (light-hearted campy superhero flicks).
If they killed off foX-men, I don't think people would care (outside Wolverine and Dead pool) either since its another franchise that seems to be hated (or very disliked) by a large amount of people.
At the end of the day I see it like this, DC had their time and now its Marvels. DC pioneered a lot and so did Marvel. The game of catch-up is stupid (and one of WBs issues). With all this multiverse and cast collisions... Fox had them beat with Deadpool and Days of Future past (not to mention genera expansion films like New Mutants). They weren't afraid to try something new even if people hated it.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Wed, 23 Feb 2022, 01:49
I know Keaton will be playing another version of Batman in Batgirl, but I'm starting to think that version will debut in The Flash. I'm not even sure if we're going to see the Burtonverse version one more time, knowing how this wretched studio is.
Yes, at least as far as the
current regime is concerned, I've had the same thought recently.
I guess there's two ways to look at it. Yes, it's
very reliant on just the novelty of having Keaton back as Batman with him playing a variant right from the jump, and consequently takes some of the nostalgic 'oomph' away from hardcore B89/BR92 fans due to the detachment to the films we associate with Keaton.
However, with the
current guys pulling the strings, maybe that's for the best under the circumstances? As even if it was being widely reported right now that Keaton was indeed playing Burtonverse Batman, I wouldn't be able to not feel a bit nervous on how he would be handled right now under the current regime. Perhaps, Keaton playing a variant right now works out best for everyone in the long haul. Especially so if some of the new names, who are going to slotted into positions post-merger, are a hell of a lot more competent than the
present execs we've been dealing with.
Basically, this decision (even if it's unintentional) keeps the Burtonverse preserved and pristine for attainable exploration down the line. Possibly under a DC Films with more aptitude and proficiency...
Keaton posted this on Instagram (for Batgirl)
(https://i.postimg.cc/NGdynkzT/michaelkeatondouglas-Ca-Ygw-Ur-ND-B.jpg)
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Wed, 23 Feb 2022, 16:46
If they killed off foX-men, I don't think people would care (outside Wolverine and Dead pool) either since its another franchise that seems to be hated (or very disliked) by a large amount of people.
I grew tired of Fox's X-Men, but I wouldn't want to see any more of those characters get killed off. It may not be my cup of tea anymore, but that doesn't mean Marvel should kill them out of spite. Besides, there are still fans of those movies out there.
Quote from: The Joker on Thu, 24 Feb 2022, 05:44
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Wed, 23 Feb 2022, 01:49
I know Keaton will be playing another version of Batman in Batgirl, but I'm starting to think that version will debut in The Flash. I'm not even sure if we're going to see the Burtonverse version one more time, knowing how this wretched studio is.
Yes, at least as far as the current regime is concerned, I've had the same thought recently.
I guess there's two ways to look at it. Yes, it's very reliant on just the novelty of having Keaton back as Batman with him playing a variant right from the jump, and consequently takes some of the nostalgic 'oomph' away from hardcore B89/BR92 fans due to the detachment to the films we associate with Keaton.
However, with the current guys pulling the strings, maybe that's for the best under the circumstances? As even if it was being widely reported right now that Keaton was indeed playing Burtonverse Batman, I wouldn't be able to not feel a bit nervous on how he would be handled right now under the current regime. Perhaps, Keaton playing a variant right now works out best for everyone in the long haul. Especially so if some of the new names, who are going to slotted into positions post-merger, are a hell of a lot more competent than the present execs we've been dealing with.
Basically, this decision (even if it's unintentional) keeps the Burtonverse preserved and pristine for attainable exploration down the line. Possibly under a DC Films with more aptitude and proficiency...
You raise a really good point.
Come to think of it, I remember that fool Grace Randolph claimed Keaton would be playing Thomas Wayne ala Flashpoint, not Bruce Wayne. I never took her seriously at the time, and I still don't. But the idea that Keaton is playing a new Batman was teased long before this Batgirl stuff was happening, and maybe the signs were there and we didn't see it. In hindsight, the trades only seemed to focus on Keaton playing Batman again, but everyone assumed he would be playing the same one from thirty years ago.
Some people might try to compare Keaton playing a variant version to John Wesley Shipp playing the Jay Garrick Flash in the Arrowverse. But here's the thing: when Shipp was announced to appear in the CW's version of The Flash, nobody was under the impression that Shipp was going to reprise his early Nineties Barry Allen version. Everyone knew he was going to play Henry Allen at the time, the stuff with Jay Garrick and finally his version of Barry would come much later. Whereas in this case, it was expected Keaton would return as Burton's Batman.
Guess we will have to see. If people are smart enough to know that Patrick Stewart is playing another version of Professor X, likely a member of the Illuminati in DS2, then maybe people should tell the difference between the two versions of Batman that Keaton has now played. The question is how will the general audience respond and whether or not it's too late to explore the Burtonverse timeline. For the latter, it might very well be far too late, given Keaton's age.
Congratulations to Michael Keaton on his SAG win last night for Dopesick.
'Batman' survey: Ben Affleck edges out Michael Keaton as best caped crusader
NEW YORK (StudyFinds.org) – Ben Affleck might be done with superhero movies, but at least he'll be fondly remembered. According to a recent poll, nearly one in three Americans still think he's the best on-screen Batman.
In anticipation of "The Batman," the caped crusader's latest film premiere on March 4, OnePoll asked 1,000 survey respondents to weigh in on who they feel brought Batman to life most convincingly by offering up their top three picks.
Overall, Affleck (31%) just barely edged out Michael Keaton as the favorite Batman version (30%). And while George Clooney's self-described franchise killer ranked low (23%), it wasn't the bottom of the list. That honor goes to Will Arnett's comedic portrayal in "The LEGO Movie" and "The LEGO Batman Movie" (21%).
Favorite 'Batman' portrayals differ among generations
Not surprisingly, age seems to be a factor. Gen Z and Millennial respondents (ages 18-25 and 26-41) gravitate toward Ben Affleck. Gen Xers (ages 42-55) favor Michael Keaton. Baby boomers (ages 57-71) prefer Adam West from the 1966 live-action TV series.
As every comic fan knows, Batman's billionaire secret identity warrants a very different performance. So when asked which actor does a better Bruce Wayne, Affleck (33%) lost out to voice actor Kevin Conroy (34%) of the '90s animated series and Arkham games.
That goes double for Gen Z and millennials, who overwhelmingly prefer Conroy's Bruce Wayne (55% and 38%). But what about Robert Pattinson, the latest man to don the cape and cowl? While respondents weren't asked to give him an official ranking before seeing his actual performance, 58% feel he'll do a better-than-average job at the very least.
One in four (25%) even theorize that he's on track to be the best Batman. Millennials seem the most divided though, which isn't all that surprising, given Pattinson's past status as a former heartthrob in both the "Harry Potter" and "Twilight" franchises.
What about 'Catwoman'?
Meanwhile, respondents have a harder time nailing down their favorite version of Catwoman, who'll be portrayed by Zoe Kravitz in the upcoming film.
Data reveals a three-way tie between Michelle Pfeiffer from "Batman Returns," Anne Hathaway from "The Dark Night Rises", and Adrienne Barbeau, who voiced Selina Kyle for the animated series. Halle Berry, the only person to play Catwoman in her own standalone movie, came in fourth with 28%.
The best thing about Batman, though, is that there's plenty of room to interpret the franchise. One in six respondents (16%) don't feel there's ever been a "definitive" version of the character.
A different one in six, however, name Michael Keaton as the definitive Batman, which makes sense. After all, while he and Affleck are returning for "The Flash," only one of them will be moving on to yet another upcoming cameo in "Batgirl"... and it won't be Affleck.
Who's the best BATMAN?
Ben Affleck – 31%
Michael Keaton – 30%
Kevin Conroy – 28%
Christian Bale – 26%
Adam West – 25%
Who's the best BRUCE WAYNE?
Kevin Conroy – 34%
Ben Affleck – 33%
Michael Keaton – 33%
Adam West – 30%
Christian Bale – 29%
Who's the best CATWOMAN?
Michelle Pfeiffer – 29%
Anne Hathaway – 29%
Adrienne Barbeau – 29%
Halle Berry – 28%
Julie Newmar – 27%
Who are the best Batman VILLAINS?
Joker – 25%
Penguin – 19%
Riddler – 19%
Catwoman – 17%
Harley Quinn – 16%
Two-Face – 14%
Bane – 13%
Mr. Freeze – 13%
Man-Bat – 12%
https://pix11.com/entertainment/batman-survey-ben-affleck-edges-out-michael-keaton-as-best-caped-crusader/?fbclid=IwAR3hl6rdyr-nsO1RhIqaaMg_HAe9KwGgX-qjCpE_LpN_Cpiee3eFNGCoDGk
I suspect that the Riddler's standing will improve greatly over the next couple years. Hell, the next couple of weeks.
The Flash has been delayed to June 2023. Thanks, Black Adam.
So mad. I could strap a bomb to a strongman's belt and toss him in a sewer! >:(
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Wed, 9 Mar 2022, 21:27
The Flash has been delayed to June 2023. Thanks, Black Adam.
Um, how sure are we that Black Adam is the reason?
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 9 Mar 2022, 21:58
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Wed, 9 Mar 2022, 21:27
The Flash has been delayed to June 2023. Thanks, Black Adam.
Um, how sure are we that Black Adam is the reason?
I think based on where everything landed we can say that Adam is probably the reason. It went to October because maybe WB thinks it isn't big and bad enough to complete in July. The Flash is in June, so I think they're still pretty confident in that release. In fact I'd say very confident since tis the blockbuster season. Aquaman isn't ready and Shazam moved up because the first was a fan favorite and 2 was cheaper to make (compared to the others) from what I hear.
It's been delayed by over seven and a half months?! ??? So much for Keaton returning on the 30th anniversary of his last outing.
Presumably this also means that Batgirl is being delayed until sometime in 2023. Way to kill our hype.
I hoped these ridiculous delays would be a thing of the past. Apparently not. But I'm not angry. I'm largely numb to disappointment these days. I'll see it when it gets released, but I'm not going to wish my life away for anything.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Wed, 9 Mar 2022, 22:28
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 9 Mar 2022, 21:58Um, how sure are we that Black Adam is the reason?
I think based on where everything landed we can say that Adam is probably the reason. It went to October because maybe WB thinks it isn't big and bad enough to complete in July. The Flash is in June, so I think they're still pretty confident in that release. In fact I'd say very confident since tis the blockbuster season. Aquaman isn't ready and Shazam moved up because the first was a fan favorite and 2 was cheaper to make (compared to the others) from what I hear.
The reason I ask is because the rumors floating around now are saying that WB is rethinking EVERYTHING in light of TB's success. People are breathlessly claiming that TB has a shot at $1 billion. I'm not sure about that, m'self.
But if WB wants to essentially use TB as DCEU ver. 2.0, they might want to delay The Flash so that they can reshoot key elements of it. Said reshoot will close the book on everything else they've done prior to TB.
That's a conspiracy theory and there are flaws in that logic. Nevertheless, that's the big rumor that's making the rounds at present.
Having said that, your analysis sounds credible as well. So, I have no idea what to think at this point.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 9 Mar 2022, 21:58
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Wed, 9 Mar 2022, 21:27
The Flash has been delayed to June 2023. Thanks, Black Adam.
Um, how sure are we that Black Adam is the reason?
This is what Deadline says:
QuoteWe've heard that a number of these movies, which are VFX heavy, are being pushed due to the logjam many post-prod effects houses are facing as productions ramped up during Covid. The Flash alone has 2,500 VFX shots, we understand.
https://deadline.com/2022/03/warner-bros-release-dates-the-flash-aquaman-wonka-shazam-sequel-1234974660/
I don't buy this for one second. Lots of blockbuster films were made during the pandemic. In fact, it was reported ZSJL had roughly 2,800 VFX shots that were developed when the pandemic was at its peak. If Covid was such a serious factor for causing these delays then why the hell did they release this publicity promo a month ago?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Knw-Hmo4GZE
Clearly, The Flash and Aquaman 2 were meant to come out this year. I heard a rumour this might be a result of the impending Discovery merger.
Whatever it is, something's up. I'm surprised they haven't announced the delay for Batgirl yet, surely there's no way for that movie to come out this year as it obviously ties into The Flash.
I mean, in this day and age, delays are so common...it is what it is.
It'll get here whenever
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 10 Mar 2022, 04:25
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Wed, 9 Mar 2022, 22:28
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 9 Mar 2022, 21:58Um, how sure are we that Black Adam is the reason?
I think based on where everything landed we can say that Adam is probably the reason. It went to October because maybe WB thinks it isn't big and bad enough to complete in July. The Flash is in June, so I think they're still pretty confident in that release. In fact I'd say very confident since tis the blockbuster season. Aquaman isn't ready and Shazam moved up because the first was a fan favorite and 2 was cheaper to make (compared to the others) from what I hear.
The reason I ask is because the rumors floating around now are saying that WB is rethinking EVERYTHING in light of TB's success. People are breathlessly claiming that TB has a shot at $1 billion. I'm not sure about that, m'self.
But if WB wants to essentially use TB as DCEU ver. 2.0, they might want to delay The Flash so that they can reshoot key elements of it. Said reshoot will close the book on everything else they've done prior to TB.
That's a conspiracy theory and there are flaws in that logic. Nevertheless, that's the big rumor that's making the rounds at present.
Having said that, your analysis sounds credible as well. So, I have no idea what to think at this point.
In all honesty its all probably just COVID stuff. Cause everything is COVID stuff. COVID really screwed everything.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Thu, 10 Mar 2022, 07:57
Clearly, The Flash and Aquaman 2 were meant to come out this year. I heard a rumour this might be a result of the impending Discovery merger.
Whatever it is, something's up. I'm surprised they haven't announced the delay for Batgirl yet, surely there's no way for that movie to come out this year as it obviously ties into The Flash.
My first thought was, "Warners probably wants to add Pattinson into the Flash movie now." :D
Course, I'm being a bit facetious, but with the current regime ... I wouldn't necessarily put it past them.
QuoteWho's the best BATMAN?
Ben Affleck – 31%
Michael Keaton – 30%
Kevin Conroy – 28%
Christian Bale – 26%
Adam West – 25%
Who's the best BRUCE WAYNE?
Kevin Conroy – 34%
Ben Affleck – 33%
Michael Keaton – 33%
Adam West – 30%
Christian Bale – 29%
Who's the best CATWOMAN?
Michelle Pfeiffer – 29%
Anne Hathaway – 29%
Adrienne Barbeau – 29%
Halle Berry – 28%
Julie Newmar – 27%
Who are the best Batman VILLAINS?
Joker – 25%
Penguin – 19%
Riddler – 19%
Catwoman – 17%
Harley Quinn – 16%
Two-Face – 14%
Bane – 13%
Mr. Freeze – 13%
Man-Bat – 12%
https://pix11.com/entertainment/batman-survey-ben-affleck-edges-out-michael-keaton-as-best-caped-crusader/?fbclid=IwAR3hl6rdyr-nsO1RhIqaaMg_HAe9KwGgX-qjCpE_LpN_Cpiee3eFNGCoDGk
Kinda warms my heart seeing the Penguin ranked so highly. I remember Tim Burton or someone on the documentary from the Batman Returns SE DVD/Blu ray editions mentioning that Warners (back in 1990/1991) viewed the Penguin as Batman's #2 adversary, and I can't help but to have always thought the same. Even when it was obviously not true within the current comics even. Perhaps, this was due to me being influenced by my exposure as a child to Burgess Meredith's Penguin being prominently featured in the Batman '66 series (to which I was first introduced to right during '89's Batmania), which eventually was then followed up upon by Danny Devito's amazing performance as the Penguin in BR. I kinda felt the character was losing a bit of prominence in the public consciousness following his exclusion from the Nolan films, but I think his appearances in the Arkham games and the Gotham tv show more or less got the Penguin's footing back to where it needed to be. After Colin Farrell's portrayal in The Batman, in addition to what's to come with the HBO Max show, the sky is the limit, and it's safe to say that ol' Oswald is very much back, in the public's mind (which is very important), with the very upper hierarchy within Batman's rogues gallery.
Those Catwoman numbers are pretty shocking. Never knew the fanbase was so evenly divided over those actresses. I guess I assumed that Hathaway was a distant #2 to Pfeiffer and the others were left competing for scraps.
True. Admittedly, I'm biased and Pfeiffer continues to remain very comfortably as the GOAT of cinematic Catwomen, but it is interesting how it's a three way tie, and the other's being not all that far apart in the vote.
Something that is more likely is the fact The Batman makes WB financially successful for 2022. Moving some of their big titles into next year helps them cement 2023. If The Batman opened weakly I suspect the schedule would have remained the same.
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Sun, 6 Mar 2022, 22:13
Who's the best CATWOMAN?
Michelle Pfeiffer – 29%
Anne Hathaway – 29%
Adrienne Barbeau – 29%
Halle Berry – 28%
Julie Newmar – 27%
Halle Berry's Catwoman ranked above Julie Newmar's? As far as I'm concerned, Newmar is more or less tied with Pfeiffer as the GOAT. At worst, she gets second place. But to rate her below Hathaway and Berry? I know recency bias is a factor here, but even so.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgW_PhNHq0g
The absence of Meriwether and Kitt is equally egregious.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Fri, 11 Mar 2022, 12:59
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Sun, 6 Mar 2022, 22:13
Who's the best CATWOMAN?
Michelle Pfeiffer – 29%
Anne Hathaway – 29%
Adrienne Barbeau – 29%
Halle Berry – 28%
Julie Newmar – 27%
Halle Berry's Catwoman ranked above Julie Newmar's? As far as I'm concerned, Newmar is more or less tied with Pfeiffer as the GOAT. At worst, she gets second place. But to rate her below Hathaway and Berry? I know recency bias is a factor here, but even so.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgW_PhNHq0g
The absence of Meriwether and Kitt is equally egregious.
I can understand your confusion. But at the same time, there's a two point margin between the top spot and the last spot. That's a statistical irrelevance.
Still, if we're taking it upon ourselves to correct the list, I'd go with:
#1: Michelle Pfeiffer/Julie Newmar: Honestly, either of them could be #1 depending on the day. Or even the time of day. Pfeiffer's performance carries Catwoman's once mandatory sex appeal but mixes it with heaping helpings of crazy. It was a very modern portrayal of Catwoman for its time. Meanwhile, Newmar's Catwoman oozed sex appeal underlined with a nearly constant (but subdued and safe-for-TV) malevolence. To be distracted by her charm was to risk danger... or worse.
#3: Adrienne Barbeau: While Barbeau is a DISTANT number three, I emphasize that I have a tremendous amount of affection for her
performance. What sets her back is her initial characterization, which she obviously had no control over. Specifically, I never enjoyed the PETA activist thing. If not that for that... well, she'd
still be number three. But the gap would be a lot narrower, put it that way.
#4: Anne Hathaway: The role didn't demand much of her (in terms of performance; it's not my business to criticize a woman who runs in heels) but she didn't stink up the screen. Considering who her competition is, that means something in this thread.
#5: Halle Berry: I mean, speaking of stinking up the screen...
I always found Meriweather to be derivative of Newmar (and not in a way that benefits Meriweather) and I *NEVER* understood what the hype was all about with Eartha Kitt. Hence their absence from my list.
And as far as Zoe Kravitz is concerned... honestly, she's too new to rate. If I had more than a week of investment in her performance, I could probably give you a better answer. But as it stands, I am prepared to say now that she did the role proud and she's almost certainly a contender for number three on my above ranking. Nostalgia, skintight outfits and unapologetic sex appeal will probably always keep Pfeiffer and Newmar atop my list. But Kravitz definitely has an opportunity to own the role and make it her own in a way that Hathaway never did, and probably never aspired to. She's somebody to keep your eye on.
Meriwether's version is my next favourite live action Catwoman after Newmar and Pfeiffer. For the following reasons. Firstly, she retweeted a link to my Batman: The Movie comic analysis feature back in 2012. That was nice of her. Secondly, she starred in the 1966 movie, which nowadays is my favourite live action Batman film. Thirdly, I find her stunningly beautiful.
(https://preview.redd.it/k0n3emchsrv71.jpg?auto=webp&s=e0692d0bfac2b9dca0449ed19a03c8d7daf38fb0)
I also think she was the most demure and ladylike of the Catwomen.
And fourthly, Meriwether was the only sixties Catwoman who had an alter ego that got to share a romance with Bruce Wayne, as opposed to simply flirting with Batman while they were both in costume. Pfeiffer and Hathaway were also romanced by Bruce in their civilian guises, but Newmar, Kitt and Kravitz weren't. Obviously this is down to writing and not the actor, but it still creates a different dynamic between Meriwether and West from what we saw between him and Newmar. Don't get me wrong – West and Newmar had tremendous chemistry (on a par with Keaton and Pfeiffer IMO) and West's Batman was clearly attracted to her. But she never broke his heart the way Meriwether's version did.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UExgj8kNsic
West's relationship with Newmar's Catwoman might be funnier, but his relationship with Kitka had a little more emotional depth. I also thought she was more cold-hearted and manipulative than Newmar. Newmar's Catwoman genuinely liked Batman, whereas Meriwether's version seemed to hate him and was only exploiting Bruce's affection for her own gain. For me, those differences are enough to distinguish Meriwether's Catwoman as a worthwhile interpretation independent of Newmar's.
As for Kitt, I've always felt that she was the weakest of the three sixties Catwomen but I still liked her. The introduction of Batgirl in the third season meant that the writers effectively dropped the romance angle between Batman and Catwoman, and because of that Kitt's version became a lot less flirty and a lot more villainous. I found her to be the most menacing of the sixties Catwomen. The one most likely to actually kill Batman.
Hathaway's version is ok, but looking back on her now she strikes me as pretty bland and unlikeable. She doesn't own a cat, doesn't use a whip, doesn't have claws and isn't called Catwoman. The cat theme is incidental and doesn't really reflect any affinity for her feline totem. I also find it odd that diehard Nolan fans would rip into Burton's Batman for killing, but none of them seemed to have a problem with the Nolanverse Selina casually gunning down criminals in a bar.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAzXwlmQ0b4
There have been murderous versions of Catwoman in the comics (see the Silver Age version or the Catwoman from the Max Allan Collins/Marshall Rogers newspaper strip), but the mainstream Selina only uses lethal force on extremely rare occasions and even then with great reluctance. Pfeiffer's Catwoman killed Shreck, but she was clearly conflicted about it and spent the entire movie having to psych herself up to the deed. Elsewhere in the film she never used lethal force, made sure to scare the security guards out of Shreck's department store before blowing it up, and reacted with horror when Penguin killed the Ice Princess. But Hathaway's Selina was, in my opinion, a little too blasé about killing. The whole coy head tilting thing she did annoyed me as well. Hathaway's version isn't bad. But on my league table, I'd rank her below Newmar, Pfeiffer, Meriwether and Kravitz.
Halle Berry's Catwoman... I can't think of anything nice to say about her. Berry could have made a decent Catwoman with a better script and director, but the one she delivered in the 2004 movie was just dreadful.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Fri, 11 Mar 2022, 19:23
Meriwether's version is my next favourite live action Catwoman after Newmar and Pfeiffer. For the following reasons. Firstly, she retweeted a link to my Batman: The Movie comic analysis feature back in 2012. That was nice of her. Secondly, she starred in the 1966 movie, which nowadays is my favourite live action Batman film. Thirdly, I find her stunningly beautiful.
(https://preview.redd.it/k0n3emchsrv71.jpg?auto=webp&s=e0692d0bfac2b9dca0449ed19a03c8d7daf38fb0)
I also think she was the most demure and ladylike of the Catwomen.
And fourthly, Meriwether was the only sixties Catwoman who had an alter ego that got to share a romance with Bruce Wayne, as opposed to simply flirting with Batman while they were both in costume. Pfeiffer and Hathaway were also romanced by Bruce in their civilian guises, but Newmar, Kitt and Kravitz weren't. Obviously this is down to writing and not the actor, but it still creates a different dynamic between Meriwether and West from what we saw between him and Newmar. Don't get me wrong – West and Newmar had tremendous chemistry (on a par with Keaton and Pfeiffer IMO) and West's Batman was clearly attracted to her. But she never broke his heart the way Meriwether's version did.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UExgj8kNsic
West's relationship with Newmar's Catwoman might be funnier, but his relationship with Kitka had a little more emotional depth. I also thought she was more cold-hearted and manipulative than Newmar. Newmar's Catwoman genuinely like Batman, whereas Meriwether's version seemed to hate him and was only exploiting Bruce's affection for her own gain. For me, those differences are enough to distinguish Meriwether's Catwoman as a worthwhile interpretation independent of Newmar's.
In addition to everything Silver stated, Meriwether's Catwoman was absolutely the most accessible Catwoman for fans of the '66 series that were around during the VHS era. As "Batman The Movie" was the only 'official' VHS release that was widely available to own when it came to Adam West Batman (and even on DVD for a good long while as well!). Having said that, I think there is a fandom who have a lot of nostalgia and affection for Meriwether's Catwoman due to not only her distinguishing interpretation, but also being the one that could be visited and revisited on home video.
Unless of course you were recording episodes of the tv show airings using a VHS recorder. Which I was
certainly guilty of.
Speaking of attractiveness, it's subjective of course, but I have to say that if I had the 'pick of the litter' between circa 1966 Julie Newmar, Lee Meriwether, and Eartha Kitt .... I would go with Lee Meriwether immediately. Nothing wrong with Newmar and Kitt, and Newmar certainly exuded a undeniable sexuality that automatically made her extremely alluring anytime she appeared as Catwoman on the show, but a 1966 Lee Meriwether is just, overall, more my type.
Meriwether reappearing on Season 2, post-"Batman The Movie", as Lisa Carson in the two-part episodes, "King Tut's Coup", "Batman's Waterloo" was also a very nice salute from producer William Dozier. For a show that didn't exactly shy away from sexual innuendo's from time to time, Bruce accepting an invitation from Meriwether's Lisa Carson for some late night milk and homemade cookies (and you know much, much more) inside her apartment stands out.
Who could blame him!?!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WW9HUSOTbhQ
Quote from: The Joker on Sat, 12 Mar 2022, 00:15In addition to everything Silver stated, Meriwether's Catwoman was absolutely the most accessible Catwoman for fans of the '66 series that were around during the VHS era. As "Batman The Movie" was the only 'official' VHS release that was widely available to own when it came to Adam West Batman (and even on DVD for a good long while as well!). Having said that, I think there is a fandom who have a lot of nostalgia and affection for Meriwether's Catwoman due to not only her distinguishing interpretation, but also being the one that could be visited and revisited on home video.
This is a very good point and a major factor in why I'm so fond of Meriwether's Catwoman. I regularly watched reruns of the TV show as a kid, but didn't actually get my own copies on DVD until I was in my early twenties. Throughout my teenage years, the only Catwomen I had on video were Meriwether, Pfeiffer and Barbeau. That's probably the case for most Batman fans of a certain age.
A few more comments on Meriwether's Catwoman.
Meriwether and Pfeiffer were the only live action Catwoman actresses who used two very different voices to distinguish between their costumed and civilian personae. Actually I think Berry might have done this too, but I can't remember for sure. Pfeiffer adopted a deeper Joan Crawford-esque voice when wearing the mask, while Meriwether slipped into a Russian accent whenever she was Kitka. Meriwether's Catwoman was more physically aggressive than Newmar's: she strikes one of her henchmen in the face early in the movie, and she knocks Batman into the sea during the final battle on the submarine.
She has all the defining qualities of the comic book Catwoman: the costume, mask, claws and whip, a cat called 'Hecate' and an alter ego that's romantically involved with Bruce Wayne. The storyline about her using her alter ego to seduce a member of the Wayne household as part of a kidnapping scheme to get Batman is somewhat similar to the plot of 'The Duped Domestics' (Batman Vol 1 #22, April 1944), only in the comic it was Alfred she manipulated rather than Bruce.
Of course Meriwether's involvement with the Batman franchise continued beyond the 1966 movie. She appeared in Return to the Batcave: The Misadventures of Adam and Burt (2003) and played an aging Selina Kyle in the 2018 fan film Rise of the Catwoman.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VLO2A_4qm0
Meriwether also appeared as King Tut's lawyer, Lucilee Diamond, in the animated film Batman vs. Two-Face (2017). This movie playfully implies that Diamond is the Catwoman from the 1966 movie and that she's a separate character from Newmar's version. This isn't necessarily canon, but it would explain why Bruce didn't recognise Kitka in the 1966 film.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncJA0rNVJeo
Quote from: The Joker on Sat, 12 Mar 2022, 00:15Meriwether reappearing on Season 2, post-"Batman The Movie", as Lisa Carson in the two-part episodes, "King Tut's Coup", "Batman's Waterloo" was also a very nice salute from producer William Dozier. For a show that didn't exactly shy away from sexual innuendo's from time to time, Bruce accepting an invitation from Meriwether's Lisa Carson for some late night milk and homemade cookies (and you know much, much more) inside her apartment stands out.
Who could blame him!?!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WW9HUSOTbhQ
Lisa Carson has also had a life beyond the TV show. She returned in the comic story 'Cleopatra's Reign' (Batman '66 Vol 1 #10, June 2014) and inspired the similarly named character Leigh Carson in 'A New Dawn' (Batman Confidential Vol 1 #26-28, April-June 2009), which was later reprinted in trade paperback form as Batman: King Tut's Tomb (2010). Carson's TV episodes also inspired the Bronze Age comic story 'The Secret of the Sphinx Sinister' (Detective Comics Vol 1 #508, November 1981), in which Meriwether's role was filled, appropriately enough, by Selina Kyle.
Silver, my friend, I honestly wasn't aware of Meriwether participating in that 2018 "Rise of the Catwoman" fan film, or that Bronze Age 'The Secret of the Sphinx Sinister' story! I'm pretty sure I have those King Tut issues in Batman Confidential in a long box, but I'll probably have to dig em out sometime and re-read that story, cause I honestly don't really remember much about it (Confidential's Joker origin story "Lovers and Madmen" is pretty much what I most remember about Confidential's comic run).
You're the oracle of Batman history around here. No doubt about it.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sat, 12 Mar 2022, 21:28Meriwether also appeared as King Tut's lawyer, Lucilee Diamond, in the animated film Batman vs. Two-Face (2017). This movie playfully implies that Diamond is the Catwoman from the 1966 movie and that she's a separate character from Newmar's version. This isn't necessarily canon, but it would explain why Bruce didn't recognise Kitka in the 1966 film.
I buy it. Always wondered why Bruce wouldn't have instantly recognized "Ms. Kitka" as Catwoman since he saw Newmar without her mask often enough.
Originally, I just figured "Theater of the absurd, don't overthink it". But the above is MUCH more persuasive, canon or not.
Quote from: The Joker on Sun, 13 Mar 2022, 07:25
Silver, my friend, I honestly wasn't aware of Meriwether participating in that 2018 "Rise of the Catwoman" fan film, or that Bronze Age 'The Secret of the Sphinx Sinister' story! I'm pretty sure I have those King Tut issues in Batman Confidential in a long box, but I'll probably have to dig em out sometime and re-read that story, cause I honestly don't really remember much about it (Confidential's Joker origin story "Lovers and Madmen" is pretty much what I most remember about Confidential's comic run).
You're the oracle of Batman history around here. No doubt about it.
I'm glad there are other fans on this site who are as interested in these overlooked corners of the Bat-universe as I am. I only recently found out about that fan film myself. It's a shame they didn't make more episodes. If Selina was 'Nana' then presumably her husband and child would've been Bruce and Helena respectively? Maybe the makers will revive the project at some point. I've got to say, Meriwether looks incredible for a woman in her mid eighties. She's still beautiful.
Apparently she also appeared in a horror comedy called Hell's Kitty (2018) along with Adrienne Barbeau, Michael Berryman and Doug Jones. I haven't seen this movie, but Meriwether's character is listed on the credits as 'Grandma Kyle'. It looks pretty bad.
Regarding Detective Comics Vol 1 #508, that was an attempt at publishing a King Tut story at a time when DC didn't have legal access to the character, so they just created a new villain named Gregory Griffin who believed himself to the Pharaoh Khafre. Nowadays Griffin is often acknowledged as being the Bronze Age/Earth-One version of Tut. The Tomb of King Tut was the story that properly introduced the title character into the Modern Age. It happens to be one of my favourite Batman stories of the 2000s and one of my top five Modern Age Riddler comics.
(https://i.postimg.cc/DymZtSgJ/tut.png)
If like me you enjoy stories with an ancient Egyptian flavour, and if you're a fan of King Tut and the Riddler, then I highly recommend this comic. It's sadly overlooked, probably because it was published in Batman Confidential. But it's a really fun adventure full of riddles, death traps and nods to the King Tut TV episodes. The New 52 comics have portrayed the Riddler and King Tut as friends, but their association first began in this story when they were fighting on opposite sides. For that reason alone, it has some historical significance.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 13 Mar 2022, 07:44I buy it. Always wondered why Bruce wouldn't have instantly recognized "Ms. Kitka" as Catwoman since he saw Newmar without her mask often enough.
Originally, I just figured "Theater of the absurd, don't overthink it". But the above is MUCH more persuasive, canon or not.
The only other explanation I could think of is that the movie might be a prequel to the TV show, taking place at a time when Batman has yet to see Catwoman unmasked. Either that or her Russian accent just threw him. But the concept of there being more than one Catwoman works too. Kathy Kane briefly became 'Cat-Woman' in the Silver Age comics, so there is a precedent for there being more than one character to adopt that costumed identity at the same time.
I never had a problem accepting different actors playing the same characters in the Westverse. We had three Catwomen, two Riddlers and three Mister Freezes. But I was always fine with accepting that there was only ever really one version of each. That said, it can be fun trying to think up explanations for why there might be multiple different versions of certain villains. With Catwoman, the Batman vs. Two-Face movie offers a possible explanation why there might be at least two different Catwomen. If we accept that, then it follows that Kitt's version could also be a separate character. This would account for why their personalities are all slightly different.
The Batman '66 comic offered an explanation for the two Riddlers by suggesting that the John Astin version was a mask that Frank Gorshin's Riddler wore when committing certain crimes.
(https://i.postimg.cc/v80TqrWw/riddler-astin.png)
Again, I don't think there's really any
need to explain or acknowledge the change in actor, but if you were going to do so then this was a fun way of addressing the issue. Explaining the differences between the three Mister Freezes might be trickier.
Has anybody else noticed this movie's new release date is the same date when B89 first came out throughout the US? June 23rd.
Anyway, I'm not very fond of Grace Randolph and I don't take her seriously, but a week ago, she said she heard Affleck doesn't die in the film after all. Even going so far to say he doesn't want to close the door on playing Batman entirely just yet. The only other scooper I remember claiming Batfleck was never going to die was Mikey Sutton, who had been saying this for many months now.
Maybe there is something happening behind the scenes with this Discovery merger, but I'm not so willing take Randolph's word. Back in January, she was mocking Snyderverse fans for not "moving on" and "give the new slate a chance", now she credits them for keeping the faith. For all I know, this is her way of mocking the fans further by trying to get their hopes up.
If anyone's interested, here are screenshots to what she tweeted in this video, but beware, this YouTube commentator makes some obnoxious comments. So feel free to skim through the video and mute the guy.
https://youtu.be/WdyIZgAanx8
It is being suggested now that part of the Flash delay might be because it is now very, very apparent that Miller is a problem child. Could The Flash retcon himself? Anyway, Miller seems to have completely lost it. The stories keep coming that he is an easily agitated weirdo who will attack you as soon as he can maneuver you into a conflict.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Tue, 29 Mar 2022, 15:41
It is being suggested now that part of the Flash delay might be because it is now very, very apparent that Miller is a problem child. Could The Flash retcon himself? Anyway, Miller seems to have completely lost it. The stories keep coming that he is an easily agitated weirdo who will attack you as soon as he can maneuver you into a conflict.
He went ham on a pregnant woman so I can't say any of this is too surprising.
Still, he had that reputation before principal photography commenced on the movie so I wonder why he was brought back at all.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Tue, 29 Mar 2022, 15:41
It is being suggested now that part of the Flash delay might be because it is now very, very apparent that Miller is a problem child. Could The Flash retcon himself? Anyway, Miller seems to have completely lost it. The stories keep coming that he is an easily agitated weirdo who will attack you as soon as he can maneuver you into a conflict.
There's an established trend now and it's that Ezra has issues. I'd like to know if it impacts upon the film's box office in any way. And if people who loathe Miller feel any different about his conduct next year. And that's not taking in to account the possibility of more incidents like this happening. On another point, I've seen talk there was possibly a scene filmed for Aquaman 2 that featured Keaton meeting Momoa. But because The Flash is coming out after that movie it has now been pulled - but it may be used later. Sounds believable actually.
I wonder if it could be put into the flash as a mid or post credit scene?
ViewerAnon seemingly infers ZSJL is canon to The Flash instead the Whedon cut, which I wouldn't even use for a drink coaster or bargain bin frisbee. He also deleted a tweet suggesting Ben now isn't 100% done with Batman as first thought. He said deleted the tweet "not because it's untrue but because it might draw a little too much attention. I got excited with some new information and need to learn to pace myself." Anon is right more times than he's wrong, so this changes things and keeps uncertainty and possibilities up in the air. If legit, are we looking at reshoots to change timeline elements of The Flash? Or is this simply leaving the door open to the Deathstroke script for HBO Max?
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 30 Mar 2022, 00:57
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Tue, 29 Mar 2022, 15:41
It is being suggested now that part of the Flash delay might be because it is now very, very apparent that Miller is a problem child. Could The Flash retcon himself? Anyway, Miller seems to have completely lost it. The stories keep coming that he is an easily agitated weirdo who will attack you as soon as he can maneuver you into a conflict.
There's an established trend now and it's that Ezra has issues. I'd like to know if it impacts upon the film's box office in any way. And if people who loathe Miller feel any different about his conduct next year. And that's not taking in to account the possibility of more incidents like this happening. On another point, I've seen talk there was possibly a scene filmed for Aquaman 2 that featured Keaton meeting Momoa. But because The Flash is coming out after that movie it has now been pulled - but it may be used later. Sounds believable actually.
It makes me wonder. This behavior has long been of concern and I'm thinking what if the reason that this film was developed as a 'Flash and Batman' team up movie was owed to these concerns. Early reports asserted that Keaton was co-headlining the movie. Is that why he was chosen? Affleck's star power is going out the door...so is Keaton the guy who has babysit the movie on the promotional front?
In lighter news: The Flash test screened. The response was very positive. I believe the 'Snyder cut is canon' stuff is coming from this screening.
Update: multiple sources are now saying that Affleck doesn't die and that the Snyder Cut canon is being 'set aside,' not destroyed. I don't care for that. I think it hurts the film if it they decide to do this. You can't be half pregnant. Either you restore the Snyder canon (can't believe I'm saying that) or you pull the dang trigger. That's a knee jerk, but maybe they'll make it work. Mysteries of the multiverse! Seems like a tall order to have your cake and eat it too, but maybe they'll swing it.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Wed, 30 Mar 2022, 14:08
Update: multiple sources are now saying that Affleck doesn't die and that the Snyder Cut canon is being 'set aside,' not destroyed. I don't care for that. I think it hurts the film if it they decide to do this. You can't be half pregnant. Either you restore the Snyder canon (can't believe I'm saying that) or you pull the dang trigger. That's a knee jerk, but maybe they'll make it work. Mysteries of the multiverse! Seems like a tall order to have your cake and eat it too, but maybe they'll swing it.
If they went with stone cold dead route I'd be sure to make it memorable and worthy. But it wouldn't be my first preference. Even if Affleck never returns to the role it would be comforting to know his character still exists in some form in his own pocket universe. I can't see the downsides for doing so.
More news concerning the antics of Ezra Miller:
QuoteEzra Miller has been hit with a temporary restraining order by two residents in Hilo, a small town in Hawaii where Miller was arrested earlier this week. The "Fantastic Beasts" and "The Flash" actor was released from jail after paying $500 in bail and then reportedly threatened a couple on the property they've been staying at in Hawaii, the Associated Press reports.
According to Hawaii Police Assistant Chief Kenneth Quiocho, police escorted Miller off the property hours after they posted bail. A resident on the property called the police and asked for advice on removing two houseguests. The restraining order against Miller says the actor burst into the Hilo couple's bedroom and threatened them. Miller allegedly stole some of the couple's belongings, including a passport and wallet.
Variety has reached out to Miller's representative for further comment.
The temporary restraining order against Miller was filed Tuesday, March 29. The actor was arrested Monday, March 28 and charged with disorderly conduct and harassment after an incident at a bar. The Hawaii County Police Department said in a post that South Hilo officers responded to a report of a disorderly bar patron. Police determined that Miller had become unruly while other patrons sang karaoke and had begun "yelling obscenities." Miller then "grabbed the microphone from a 23-year-old woman singing karaoke and later lunged at a 32-year-old man playing darts."
According to Quiocho, Miller has been the source of 10 police calls in Hilo since March 7. It is unknown at this time how long Miller has been in Hawaii.
https://variety.com/2022/film/news/ezra-miller-restraining-order-threatened-couple-arrest-1235218839/
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 29 Mar 2022, 16:26He went ham on a pregnant woman so I can't say any of this is too surprising.
Still, he had that reputation before principal photography commenced on the movie so I wonder why he was brought back at all.
I can't imagine why WB hasn't fired Ezra. If he was irresistibly charismatic and really great as the Flash, then I could understand them trying to weather the controversy and keep him around. But he isn't charismatic and he's been awful as the Flash since day one. Yet WB continues to push him as one of their major stars through the Fantastic Beasts and DCEU movies. Has he got dirt on one of the executives or something?
(https://c.tenor.com/PM4B8At54Y8AAAAC/ezra-miller-choke-ezra-miller-choking.gif)
The Barry Allen Flash, the comic book version, is my favourite DC hero after Batman and Superman, and it pains me to see him portrayed as an immature goofy Peter Parker clone in the DCEU. They should use the new movie to give the character a fresh start. Bring in someone more masculine and mature to portray him and have the writers base his characterisation on the Pre-Crisis Barry from the comics instead of the MCU Spider-Man.
WB has mishandled the DCEU Flash from the get go, and the miscasting of Miller was only the start. They had him cameo in not just one but two movies before giving him a proper introduction in Justice League, and even then Whedon cut some of his most important scenes and didn't bother to introduce any of his supporting cast besides Henry Allen. The studio has failed to lay the groundwork for a story as complex as Flashpoint. But then the first Flash solo movie should never have been a Flashpoint adaptation to begin with. That would be like starting a new solo Batman series with an adaptation of Under the Hood. Some stories have to be built up to, and WB hasn't established the necessary foundations to tackle Flashpoint or Eobard Thawne. Thawne's one of the best super villains ever, but his rivalry with Barry needed to be developed considerably before reaching the Rebirth/Flashpoint stage. There's a long history between those two characters, and the murder of Nora Allen – the catalyst that triggers the Flashpoint arc – is a consequence of that history.
The first Flash solo movie should have come out back in 2016 instead of Suicide Squad, and it should have starred someone like Ryan Gosling in the lead. Gosling has the right look, height and physique to portray Barry, and he has the acting ability to convey the character's focused analytical temperament. To my knowledge, he's also never choked out a pregnant woman.
(https://i.postimg.cc/wMWzrbK1/barry-allen.png)
The first Flash solo film should have introduced Barry, his parents, his colleagues at the Central City police crime lab and Iris West, plus a handful of his classic rogues. It also needed to introduce certain important concepts, such as the Speed Force. This would have set the Flash up to appear in Justice League (2017), which would in turn have introduced the concept of time travel (see the Snyder Cut), and after that the Flash could have starred in another solo movie released in 2020 instead of Birds of Prey. This second film should then have introduced Kid Flash and the vendetta between Barry and Eobard Thawne.
Then we would have had an adequate setup for Flashpoint.
More updates. Zod is alive after the reset. A very early rumor from way back, that the Burton Batman has gone mad, appears to be correct. The Black Flash is in it, portrayed as a Ghost of Christmas Future like harbinger of doom.
The movie teases a crisis event (post credit) that will likely come 3-5 years from now. The hook is that WB is going to do the mea culpa for Snyder fans by allowing the Snyderverse (which still exists) to be a part of that Crisis event film. This is where most of Affleck's stuff comes into play.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Wed, 30 Mar 2022, 18:58
A very early rumor from way back, that the Burton Batman has gone mad, appears to be correct.
I'm all for this. Even if it meant abandoning the Bruce Wayne persona completely and calling himself Batman ala Kingdom Come, or at one time running Gotham like a Police State with drones when Alfred passed away. I honestly don't think it would be out of character for the Burton Batman given his obsessive traits in his first two films. Advanced age could make him more desperate and thus more dangerous.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Wed, 30 Mar 2022, 19:12
The movie teases a crisis event (post credit) that will likely come 3-5 years from now. The hook is that WB is going to do the mea culpa for Snyder fans by allowing the Snyderverse (which still exists) to be a part of that Crisis event film. This is where most of Affleck's stuff comes into play.
Which would make a Batfleck return very possible. Five years or so is a considerable length of time for Ben to take a break and explore other projects before coming back. Given the circumstances I'm feeling better about the way things seem to be handled on this front given complete erasure of the Snyderverse seemed likely.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 30 Mar 2022, 16:55
I can't imagine why WB hasn't fired Ezra. If he was irresistibly charismatic and really great as the Flash, then I could understand them trying to weather the controversy and keep him around. But he isn't charismatic and he's been awful as the Flash since day one. Yet WB continues to push him as one of their major stars through the Fantastic Beasts and DCEU movies.
The Barry Allen Flash, the comic book version, is my favourite DC hero after Batman and Superman, and it pains me to see him portrayed as an immature goofy Peter Parker clone in the DCEU. They should use the new movie to give the character a fresh start. Bring in someone more masculine and mature to portray him and have the writers base his characterisation on the Pre-Crisis Barry from the comics instead of the MCU Spider-Man.
I 100% agree. I love The Flash. He's my #2 after Batman, and I absolutely hate Ezra's portrayal as Barry. He's like a goofier version of Wally. He doesn't give me any kind of Barry Allen vibes. I'm just not a big Ezra fan as it is, and he sounds like a complete and total piece of sh*t in real life. The only reason why I'm excited for this movie, is because of Keaton returning. That's it.
Another hot rumor inbound: Kara Zor-El/Kara Danvers is the last survivor of Krypton on the new Rebirth Earth. Kal-El was killed by Zod on Krypton when he was a baby.
Henry Cavill's Superman is alive in the Snyderverse and that door remains open, but he was not in this test cut. Early rumors have been divided. Some insist he has filmed something, others claim he is only in television footage. The most recent rumor is that no he is not in it and he is done with the role, but just like Affleck, there is no longer a period at the end of the sentence. So, if something changes, he can return as part of Crisis.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 30 Mar 2022, 16:55
Bring in someone more masculine and mature to portray him and have the writers base his characterisation on the Pre-Crisis Barry from the comics instead of the MCU Spider-Man.
There seems to be a very intentional decision to steer clear of the classic Pre-Crisis Barry Allen characterization/incarnation within the cluster that is the DCEU for whatever reason. Its like, WB just HAS to have s (youthful) someone making quips on the team, and it's regulated to the Flash. But, as you say, it's really Barry Allen Flash in name only. I mean, I'm not super knowledgeable about Green Lantern, but I recall similar complaints were pointed at the 2011 Ryan Reynolds GL film as well. Where some fans felt WB essentially made Hal Jordan like a DC version of the cinematic version of Iron Man/Tony Stark. I don't really know how accurate that assessment is, but it would have been a foregone conclusion that there would be similarities drawn the minute Reynolds was cast. Especially with how both RDJ/Reynolds have a blatant predisposition to lean into sarcasm.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Wed, 30 Mar 2022, 19:12
The movie teases a crisis event (post credit) that will likely come 3-5 years from now. The hook is that WB is going to do the mea culpa for Snyder fans by allowing the Snyderverse (which still exists) to be a part of that Crisis event film. This is where most of Affleck's stuff comes into play.
It's (almost) surprising that with the current cut of
The Flash, someone had the foresight to leave the Snyderverse in it's own pocket universe for a possible card to play later, rather than just downplaying, and destroying it. I could actually see the 'current' brass in charge when this current cut was made wanting to implement something like that. Wonders never cease.
Keats variant Flashpoint Batman being nuts can either be played with dramatic effect, or it can be seen as unintentionally comedic. Depends on how the delivery is, and how it's played with in the film itself. Plus we know he has a role Post-Flash in the Batgirl series, so is his overall arc essentially the road in regaining his humanity/sanity? Or will Keats be introduced as bonkers, slowly puts on a front that he's in recovery, only for us to find out that he's built Brother Eye due to his paranoia?
(https://i.postimg.cc/Mp6X84s9/74-E124-D9-A55-E-4-CB4-8701-C52531-A39-AA3.jpg)
I'd expect nothing less from The King.
I don't find that surprising. lol
Quote from: Travesty on Thu, 31 Mar 2022, 13:53I 100% agree. I love The Flash. He's my #2 after Batman, and I absolutely hate Ezra's portrayal as Barry. He's like a goofier version of Wally. He doesn't give me any kind of Barry Allen vibes. I'm just not a big Ezra fan as it is, and he sounds like a complete and total piece of sh*t in real life.
Ethan Van Sciver (co-creator of Flash: Rebirth, which was one of the primary influences on the DCEU Flash) quite rightly criticised Ezra's Flash for not resembling any version of Barry Allen from the comics. You can hear his criticisms of Ezra's Flash at the 4:04 mark and the 7:23 mark in the following video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3dlNGeIfmI
He's absolutely correct. You could maybe –
maybe – pass Ezra's Flash off as a very distorted version of Wally West or Bart Allen, and even then he'd still be a terrible representation of those characters. But as Barry Allen? Not even close. Sure, they referenced Barry's revised back story from Geoff Johns' run. But his personality and temperament are totally unrecognisable as those of the Barry from the comics. It just isn't the same character. That's partly down to bad writing, but a lot of it's also down to the miscasting of Miller.
If the studio refuses to recast the part and insists on keeping Ezra in the DCEU, then they should at least produce a separate standalone series of Flash films with a different actor. A series that would be as self-contained and disconnected from the DCEU as Matt Reeves' Batman movies and which would stick closer to the classic Pre-Crisis comics. Flash fans deserve that much at least.
Quote from: The Joker on Fri, 1 Apr 2022, 04:53There seems to be a very intentional decision to steer clear of the classic Pre-Crisis Barry Allen characterization/incarnation within the cluster that is the DCEU for whatever reason. Its like, WB just HAS to have s (youthful) someone making quips on the team, and it's regulated to the Flash. But, as you say, it's really Barry Allen Flash in name only.
I've got a theory that the clownish portrayal of the Flash in most Justice League media stems from casual fans not knowing the difference between Barry Allen and Wally West. Back in the nineties, Wally was the Flash in the JLA comics. And Wally's personality was always lighter and jokier than Barry's. Then the 1997 Justice League of America TV movie went and portrayed Barry as a dozy workshy slacker whose personality was seemingly based on Joey Tribbiani from Friends. That's the only live action version of Barry that I'd rate lower than Miller's, since his personality and character arc in that film had literally
nothing in common with the Barry from the comics. Then we got the Justice League animated series, which portrayed the Flash as the funny member of the JLA. Which is fine, since that was Wally and not Barry. But I sense a lot of people aren't aware of that distinction, and consequently expect the Flash to always be portrayed as the funny JLA member even when it isn't Wally under the mask.
This confusion, if it's as widespread as I suspect, might also explain why Barry is portrayed as being so much younger than most of the other JL members in the DCEU. In the comics Barry is of the same generation as Bruce Wayne and Clark Kent, whereas Wally is of the same generation as Dick Grayson. But there seems to be a misconception some people have that the Flash should be one of the younger members of the Justice League. That's only true if we're talking about Wally. If it's Barry, he should be roughly the same age as Bruce and Clark and should display a comparable level of experience, intelligence and maturity.
With the Bruce/Barry relationship in the DCEU, it almost seems as though they were trying to imitate the success of the mentor/apprentice relationship between Tony Stark and Peter Parker in the MCU (and yes, I'm aware that principal photography on Justice League began before Civil War came out). That would account for why Ezra decided to play Barry as an immature, jittery and easily excitable/distractible buffoon. Hence why I say his personality owes more to Peter Parker than to the comic book Barry Allen. Grant Gustin did something similar when he first played Barry on Arrow, and for a while it seemed as though he was playing Peter Parker.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDjEyY_0kTQ
Thankfully Gustin corrected his performance once he got his own solo series.
I think we've yet to see the definitive live action version of Barry Allen. But if I was to rank the existing portrayals, from worst to best, it would go like this.
Kenny Johnston (Justice League of America, 1997)
(https://i.postimg.cc/tCDZ3tSc/johnston.png)
Ezra Miller (DCEU, 2016-present)
(https://i.postimg.cc/BvpHVBbR/miller.png)
Rod Haase (Legends of the Superheroes, 1979)
(https://i.postimg.cc/2SKfFPFt/haase.png)
Grant Gustin (Arrowverse, 2013-present)
(https://i.postimg.cc/43SjVVZR/gustin.png)
John Wesley Shipp (The Flash, 1990-91, & Arrowverse)
(https://i.postimg.cc/C5fPjQ7j/shipp.png)
I really liked the animated Barry Allen from Batman: The Brave and the Bold. The final showdown between him and Reverse Flash (voiced by John Wesley Shipp) in the episode 'Requiem for a Scarlet Speedster!' is one of the best super speed fights I've seen outside of the comics.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6p2A5yLvaSo
An animated Flash series made in this style would be great. But like I say, the definitive live action Barry has yet to appear. Which is odd, because Barry isn't a really complex character constructed from delicately balanced contradictions like Matt Murdock, nor are there lots of wildly different variations of Barry like there are for Bruce Wayne. There's one fairly straightforward characterisation, but they've never quite got it right in live action. Gustin is close, but he's a little too boyish and wimpy and the overall quality of writing in that show and the CW-verse in general is too poor for it to be definitive. Shipp was also close, and is IMO the best attempt so far, but they intentionally gave his Barry certain characteristics of Wally West to bring him in line with the comics of the era. So we're still waiting for the definitive live action Barry to appear.
Quote from: The Joker on Fri, 1 Apr 2022, 04:53I mean, I'm not super knowledgeable about Green Lantern, but I recall similar complaints were pointed at the 2011 Ryan Reynolds GL film as well. Where some fans felt WB essentially made Hal Jordan like a DC version of the cinematic version of Iron Man/Tony Stark. I don't really know how accurate that assessment is, but it would have been a foregone conclusion that there would be similarities drawn the minute Reynolds was cast. Especially with how both RDJ/Reynolds have a blatant predisposition to lean into sarcasm.
I'm no expert on Green Lantern either, but it seems to me that Reynolds plays more or less the same character in every movie. His screen persona is well suited to Deadpool, but it definitely didn't work for Hal Jordan. My knowledge of Hal is mostly limited to Justice League comics, as I've never undertaken a comprehensive reading of the Green Lantern comics (I'll get around to it one of these days), but I know enough about Hal to recognise that Reynolds' character missed the mark in the 2011 movie. Taking into account when that film came out, I could well believe that they were trying to copy Downey's Stark when they characterised GL as a sarcastic narcissistic quipster.
Quote from: Travesty on Thu, 31 Mar 2022, 13:53The only reason why I'm excited for this movie, is because of Keaton returning. That's it.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 1 Apr 2022, 11:06
(https://i.postimg.cc/Mp6X84s9/74-E124-D9-A55-E-4-CB4-8701-C52531-A39-AA3.jpg)
I'd expect nothing less from The King.
As far as I'm concerned, this is Keaton's Batman III. As a Flash movie, it may be a lost cause. But as a Batman multiverse film, is could still be awesome. That's why I'm looking forward to it. They should re-title the movie
Flashpoint or
Batman: Flashpoint ;D and market it with Keaton as the star.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Fri, 1 Apr 2022, 18:38
John Wesley Shipp (The Flash, 1990-91, & Arrowverse)
(https://i.postimg.cc/C5fPjQ7j/shipp.png)
Absolutely agreed about John. It's not even close, the other portrayals. Sure, he's a touch more grim than pre-Crisis Barry was (since the show was trying to evoke Batman, after all), but other than that his only flaw is that he isn't blonde. Shipp is far-and-away the best Barry Allen, and when he got to have a variation on the COIE death in CW's Crisis, I shed hot nerd tears. It was what I'd dreamed of seeing for years--Shipp's show introduced me to the Flash, and reading Barry's sacrifice in COIE years later really blew my mind and cemented my Flash fandom. The fact that remembered to use Elfman's theme and had a flashback to Barry and Tina? I get chills just typing it now.
Even if the CW COIE wasn't all that hot, getting more of Routh as Superman and seeing Shipp going out like the perfect Barry Allen he was made the entire thing worth it to me.
Hey Silver, did the Snyder Cut help to fix any of the issues you initially had with Ezra?
Ezra Miller now has a court date and has a temporary restraining order against him.
https://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory/actor-ezra-miller-ordered-stay-hawaii-couple-83793977
I reckon personal thoughts about Miller as an actor are irrelevant at this stage. If these allegations are true then it shows what a seriously disturbed individual he is. I don't know what the relationship is between Miller and this couple, but death threats are not something to take lightly. First, there was the choking incident, and now these incidents in the last couple of days. There is a self-destructive pattern going on here, I wouldn't be surprised if he's addicted to something.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Fri, 1 Apr 2022, 18:38
As far as I'm concerned, this is Keaton's Batman III. As a Flash movie, it may be a lost cause. But as a Batman multiverse film, is could still be awesome.
I agree. I imagine it's the pure Burton Batman we first meet that apparently has become 'mad', for want of a better word. With the variant being something more balanced going forward.
I'm not well versed on The Flash as a character, but I haven't disliked Ezra in the role. It's disturbing to see what he gets up to in everyday life though, and it raises questions about what the root cause is. When I see him, especially now, I can't help but think of his conduct.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Fri, 1 Apr 2022, 18:38
Ethan Van Sciver (co-creator of Flash: Rebirth, which was one of the primary influences on the DCEU Flash) quite rightly criticised Ezra's Flash for not resembling any version of Barry Allen from the comics. You can hear his criticisms of Ezra's Flash at the 4:04 mark and the 7:23 mark in the following video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3dlNGeIfmI
He's absolutely correct. You could maybe – maybe – pass Ezra's Flash off as a very distorted version of Wally West or Bart Allen, and even then he'd still be a terrible representation of those characters. But as Barry Allen? Not even close. Sure, they referenced Barry's revised back story from Geoff Johns' run. But his personality and temperament are totally unrecognisable as those of the Barry from the comics. It just isn't the same character. That's partly down to bad writing, but a lot of it's also down to the miscasting of Miller.
If the studio refuses to recast the part and insists on keeping Ezra in the DCEU, then they should at least produce a separate standalone series of Flash films with a different actor. A series that would be as self-contained and disconnected from the DCEU as Matt Reeves' Batman movies and which would stick closer to the classic Pre-Crisis comics. Flash fans deserve that much at least.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Fri, 1 Apr 2022, 18:38
I've got a theory that the clownish portrayal of the Flash in most Justice League media stems from casual fans not knowing the difference between Barry Allen and Wally West. Back in the nineties, Wally was the Flash in the JLA comics. And Wally's personality was always lighter and jokier than Barry's. Then the 1997 Justice League of America TV movie went and portrayed Barry as a dozy workshy slacker whose personality was seemingly based on Joey Tribbiani from Friends. That's the only live action version of Barry that I'd rate lower than Miller's, since his personality and character arc in that film had literally nothing in common with the Barry from the comics. Then we got the Justice League animated series, which portrayed the Flash as the funny member of the JLA. Which is fine, since that was Wally and not Barry. But I sense a lot of people aren't aware of that distinction, and consequently expect the Flash to always be portrayed as the funny JLA member even when it isn't Wally under the mask.
This confusion, if it's as widespread as I suspect, might also explain why Barry is portrayed as being so much younger than most of the other JL members in the DCEU. In the comics Barry is of the same generation as Bruce Wayne and Clark Kent, whereas Wally is of the same generation as Dick Grayson. But there seems to be a misconception some people have that the Flash should be one of the younger members of the Justice League. That's only true if we're talking about Wally. If it's Barry, he should be roughly the same age as Bruce and Clark and should display a comparable level of experience, intelligence and maturity.
As I see it, there are two (possibly three) issues going on here.
First, Snyder and co. had to balance the characterization of Barry against the fact that ZSJL is an ensemble piece. Batman, Cyborg, Superman, Wonder Woman and Aquaman are largely pretty serious characters who are individually wrestling with some pretty serious challenges. Barry's life in the Snyderverse isn't exactly a bowl of cherries either. But of all the League members, he can be the most lighthearted. In a story as serious/dark as ZSJL, some levity is needed. It might not benefit Barry specifically but it does benefit the balance of all the characters in the movie.
Second, with all due respect to Barry's fans, he's always been a pretty bland character. There's no there there. There's no "flawless" outsider perspective like Superman, no conflicting sense of duties like Aquaman, no deep and abiding thirst for vengeance like Batman, etc. Pre-Crisis Barry is a guy who did the right thing because it was the right thing to do. While that makes for an admirable character, it also makes him challenging to write. Johns attempted to remedy that by retconning Nora's death at Thawne's hands, hence Barry's quest to become a CSI investigator. But at the end of the day, Barry is a pretty thinly sketched character.
Speaking of Johns, I can't help thinking that his influence was exerted in ZSJL's depiction of Barry. Off-hand, my memory of Johns's Barry stuff has been writing him as a bit more of a laid back, fun-loving guy. I find it interesting that Johns has/had even more influence over the CW Flash and while that Barry is definitely a man of conscience, he is still not quite in line with Pre-Crisis Barry.
The thing about all the tendency to write Barry more like Wally is that it misses the forest for the trees. From the late Eighties up through the early Nineties, Wally was written as kind of an a-hole. He charged money for super feats, he boffed a married woman, etc. He was just a prick sometimes. But Mark Waid transitioned him away from that to, well, Wally as most people know him now.
But if Wally can grow and change, why can't Barry? Except nobody seems willing to invest that kind of effort into Barry. It's like they just look at Wally's characterization, they see something that (mostly) works and so they try applying elements of Wally to Barry by splitting the difference between Pre-Crisis Barry's maturity and sense of responsibility and Post-Waid Wally's freewheeling, slightly reckless tendencies. Which doesn't leave much creative space for Wally to exist, honestly, unless the plan is to butcher Wally as a character altogether.
Quote from: BatmanFurst on Fri, 1 Apr 2022, 22:34
Hey Silver, did the Snyder Cut help to fix any of the issues you initially had with Ezra?
To a degree. The absence of Whedon's dialogue was an improvement. Whedon's written some good scripts in the past, but his work on Justice League was not his best.
I appreciate Snyder laying some groundwork for Flashpoint that was absent from the theatrical cut: introducing the fact that the Flash can travel through time, and introducing Iris West. The importance of the first point is obvious, since the basic plot of Flashpoint hinges on time travel. The introduction of Iris, while perhaps seeming unimportant at face value, is also significant. Barry has a life populated by supporting characters that are well known among his readers. Apart from his dad, Henry, none of those characters have been introduced in the theatrically-released DCEU films. His friends haven't been introduced, his rogues haven't been properly introduced (unless you count Captain Boomerang in Suicide Squad, which I don't since he barely interacted with the Flash), and Central City hasn't been developed as a character in itself.
Flashpoint is a story in which the Flash wakes up one day and realises that the world around him is no longer the world he knew, and that the people around him are no longer the people he knew. But how can that sense of unfamiliarity be conveyed in the DCEU when the DCEU has yet to establish what Barry's world is ordinarily like? This goes back to what I wrote earlier in the thread about the studio failing to set up Flashpoint and properly introduce Barry
and the people in his life. But at least the Snyder Cut brought in Iris. I wish they'd taken time to develop a relationship between her and Barry, but the JLSC was already packed to the gills and wasn't really the place to do it. Snyder was picking up the slack for the studio's mishandling of the Flash, but he couldn't fix everything in one movie.
Ezra's Flash made his debut six years ago and has made numerous appearances since then. But aside from Justice League, all of those appearances were cameos: in BvS, Suicide Squad, COIE and most recently Peacemaker. He really needed at least one proper solo film to himself during those six years. But so far, I find the JL Snyder Cut to be the most tolerable depiction of Ezra's Flash.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 2 Apr 2022, 03:16Second, with all due respect to Barry's fans, he's always been a pretty bland character. There's no there there. There's no "flawless" outsider perspective like Superman, no conflicting sense of duties like Aquaman, no deep and abiding thirst for vengeance like Batman, etc. Pre-Crisis Barry is a guy who did the right thing because it was the right thing to do. While that makes for an admirable character, it also makes him challenging to write. Johns attempted to remedy that by retconning Nora's death at Thawne's hands, hence Barry's quest to become a CSI investigator. But at the end of the day, Barry is a pretty thinly sketched character.
You're not wrong. But in an age when every cinematic superhero is either a brooding badass or a quirky quipster, I think a more straightforward old-fashioned kind of hero might be something of a novelty. Barry does try to do the right thing, and some of his best stories have shown him suffering the negative consequences of that. Like the epic Trial of the Flash arc (Flash V1 #323-350, July 1983-October 1985), in which everything Barry did backfired on him to the point that he had to abandon his life altogether and start a fresh life in the 30th century. He then didn't appear again until Crisis on Infinite Earths, when he died.
For Barry, the period from July 1979 to November 1985 was a relentless stream of suffering that saw his good nature tested to breaking point. It started with the murder of his wife and it ended with his own death. There's a lot of drama to be had from watching a straight-laced good guy like Barry come apart at the seams as he suffers through those ordeals. The relative simplicity of his character makes his emotional disintegration all the more startling. So I think the Pre-Crisis Barry could still work in a modern movie, given the right storyline.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 2 Apr 2022, 03:16Speaking of Johns, I can't help thinking that his influence was exerted in ZSJL's depiction of Barry. Off-hand, my memory of Johns's Barry stuff has been writing him as a bit more of a laid back, fun-loving guy. I find it interesting that Johns has/had even more influence over the CW Flash and while that Barry is definitely a man of conscience, he is still not quite in line with Pre-Crisis Barry.
The thing about all the tendency to write Barry more like Wally is that it misses the forest for the trees. From the late Eighties up through the early Nineties, Wally was written as kind of an a-hole. He charged money for super feats, he boffed a married woman, etc. He was just a prick sometimes. But Mark Waid transitioned him away from that to, well, Wally as most people know him now.
But if Wally can grow and change, why can't Barry? Except nobody seems willing to invest that kind of effort into Barry. It's like they just look at Wally's characterization, they see something that (mostly) works and so they try applying elements of Wally to Barry by splitting the difference between Pre-Crisis Barry's maturity and sense of responsibility and Post-Waid Wally's freewheeling, slightly reckless tendencies. Which doesn't leave much creative space for Wally to exist, honestly, unless the plan is to butcher Wally as a character altogether.
I get the need to update the character, but Barry's relative simplicity is one of the things I like about him. I loved Geoff Johns' Rebirth storyline when it first came out, and I still think it's one of the best modern Barry Allen stories. But I don't like how it's come to define every subsequent take on Barry, including the New 52, DCEU, CW and DCAU versions.
I prefer the Pre-Crisis era, when both of Barry's parents were alive and well and featured as supporting characters in his stories. Johns' revised back story about Reverse Flash murdering Nora and framing Henry was a neat way of giving Barry the tragic origin he previously lacked (the makers of the nineties TV show used the death of his brother in a similar way), and his desire to prove his father's innocence also offered a good motive for why he became a police forensic scientist. But personally, I think they should have run with that storyline for a few years – perhaps until Flashpoint – and then reverted to the previous status quo. There are other ways of adding depth to the character without burdening him with the cliché of a childhood tragedy. And by giving him that troubled childhood, Johns' deprived Barry of some of the relaxed self-assurance he had in the Pre-Crisis era. Now he's forever haunted by the trauma of what happened to his family. This brings him in line with a more typical modern superhero, but I'm just not keen on it. I prefer the old Barry.
I have some ideas about how Barry's characterisation could be developed for a future film. Instead of playing his super speed for laughs, the way the X-Men films portrayed Quicksilver's powers, I'd depict them in a more existential and soulful manner. As Barry's velocity approaches the speed of light, time moves more slowly for him (Einstein's theory of relativity), and consequently he experiences time differently from everyone else. Whenever he uses his powers, he places himself out of synch with the rest of the world. That's why he's always late for appointments. There's an amusing story that explores this concept in Flash V1 #141 (December 1963) called 'Slowdown in Time!' in which Iris' father, Professor Ira West, figures out Barry's secret using the theory of relativity. Ira synchronises his watch with Barry's, then monitors the Flash's activities and makes note of his changes in speed. He then uses this data to calculate the time differential and predict exactly how late Barry will be for his next appointment.
(https://i.postimg.cc/vHFGXyGk/ira-west.png)
There's a lot of dramatic potential to be had from this idea: that the more Barry uses his powers to help people, the faster his loved ones would age before his eyes. The time differential would be tiny at first – a matter of a few seconds or minutes – but it would increase exponentially as the years went by and he used his powers more extensively. I'd play that for drama instead of laughs. I don't mean turn him into a brooding vampire, but rather depict him as someone who's experiencing time differently from his loved ones, and whose worldview is burdened by perceptions of complex chains of causality and 'what ifs' that other people can never see. Johns touched upon this a little during his run, but the idea could be developed further. That way he wouldn't really need a defining element of tragedy in his past, because he'd be living with an element of tragedy every day of his life: namely the sadness of living life at a different rate to his friends and family, and placing himself even further out of synch with them each time he uses his powers to do good.
To expand on my previous post, I think a good template for a cinematic Barry Allen would be Matthew McConaughey's character in Interstellar (2014). Here we have a straight-laced, moral hero with no glaringly obvious character defects. A scientist whose quest to save his family, and humanity as a whole, result in him experiencing time differently from the people of Earth and even undergoing a form of time travel at one point. He ends up temporally displaced from his own life and has to sacrifice the precious years he would have otherwise spent with his children.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LiVGDq01FU
Come to think of it, McConaughey would have been the perfect actor to have played Barry if WB had made a Flash movie back in the 2000s. Take his character from Interstellar and mix him with Jim Caviezel's character from Frequency (2000) and you've got an excellent model for how to faithfully depict the Pre-Crisis Barry Allen in a live action film.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWIdq--nc-8
Focusing on how Barry's heroics affect the important people in his life is the key to getting him right in a movie. Those connections are where the emotional drama comes from.
The more I think about it, the more I want to see a standalone Flash movie trilogy set in its own universe. I've got an idea for how I'd do it, taking visual and stylistic cues from old Tony Scott movies like Top Gun (1986) and Days of Thunder (1990). Like Scott's cinematographers, I'd make heavy use of neutral-density filters to imbue the sky with a moody orange overcast that threatens lightning at any moment. This would help define the look of the films.
(https://i.postimg.cc/vTgKbkP2/1.png)
(https://i.postimg.cc/G3434pVV/2.png)
(https://i.postimg.cc/rsBPmj3V/3.png)
I might even reference the soundtracks from those older movies to give the Flash score a cool yet slightly melancholy ambience.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEna8SZYlHU
The tone of the Flash movies should be lighter than the Batman films, but not as comedic as the MCU. They should be mostly dramatic science fiction/crime adventure films with humour used strategically and discreetly, but never at the expense of the drama (e.g. the tired MCU trope of someone saying or doing something inappropriate during a dramatic moment to get a cheap laugh from the audience and offset the tension). In general, the Flash films shouldn't be dark except when necessitated by the plot.
Another cinematic influence I'd draw from is Ron Fricke, and specifically his
cinéma pur trilogy of Chronos (1985), Baraka (1992) and Samsara (2011). Fricke's breathtaking use of time-lapse photography showcases the ideal technique for conveying the passage of time in purely cinematic language. I'd fill the Flash movies with similar imagery of lightning storms over deserts, solar eclipses and racing cloudscapes. And I'd capture this footage in camera instead of creating it digitally.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCWeB-XznEk
I'd give the Flash an iconic and heroic musical theme to match those of Donner's Superman and Burton's Batman. I'd base it on Vangelis' Oscar-winning score for Chariots of Fire (1981).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pQlRZZ9NMs
The first film in the trilogy would be based on the Silver Age stories of Robert Kanigher, John Broome and Gardner Fox. It would have a fairly balanced and optimistic tone without veering into full comedy. Most of the classic Rogues would appear (Captain Cold, Mirror Master, Pied Piper, Captain Boomerang, Trickster, etc), with Grodd being the main villain who takes control of their minds to use them as his agents against the Flash. Barry's romance with Iris West would feature prominently, as would his relationship with Nora and Henry Allen.
The second film would be a lot darker and would take its cues from Cary Bates' Bronze Age run, and specifically the 1979-1985 period that led up to Barry's death. Reverse Flash would be the main villain, with a dominant presence similar to that of the Joker in The Dark Knight. Wally West would be introduced as Kid Flash, both Nora and Iris would be killed by Thawne, and Henry would be falsely imprisoned for his wife's murder. The movie would end with Barry sacrificing himself to stop Thawne and the teenage Wally stepping up to become the new Flash.
The final film in the trilogy would take place after a ten-year time jump, with the adult Wally now firmly established as the Flash. Halfway through the movie, Barry would emerge from the Speed Force to reclaim his mantle and settle his score with Eobard Thawne, who by now has become Black Flash. Barry would travel through time to prevent Thawne from killing Iris and Nora –
without giving rise to the Flashpoint universe – and everything would be set right. This film would take its comic book influences from Mark Waid's Post-Crisis run and Geoff Johns' Rebirth storyline, and it would end the trilogy on a note of closure similar to The Dark Knight Rises. Any Rogues who didn't appear in the first two films would make appearances in this one, but Black Flash would be the central antagonist.
In response to a couple of fake plot leaks that are circulating a very reliable scooper has confirmed that Barry is actually creating time lines that mash elements from other time lines together. They went on to say that the Keaton Batman of the 'Burton' canon is not exactly the same Batman of Earth-89, and yet he is. Apparently he is a variant who experienced both Batman 1989 and Batman Returns, but his time line is a divergence created by Barry, which is why Sasha Calle's Supergirl exists in his universe as well. Barry then of course creates the rebirth time line.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Mon, 4 Apr 2022, 15:00
In response to a couple of fake plot leaks that are circulating a very reliable scooper has confirmed that Barry is actually creating time lines that mash elements from other time lines together. They went on to say that the Keaton Batman of the 'Burton' canon is not exactly the same Batman of Earth-89, and yet he is. Apparently he is a variant who experienced both Batman 1989 and Batman Returns, but his time line is a divergence created by Barry, which is why Sasha Calle's Supergirl exists in his universe as well. Barry then of course creates the rebirth time line.
I'm ok with that, it leaves the 90's Batman universe alone (for the most part) and allows them to do somthing else. While partially ok with them dropping the Shumacher timeline. This overall idea of "lets forget somthing because we dont like it" is becoming a thing when bringing back old franchises.
All I can say is I hope that horrible rumour of Zod killing baby Kal-El in the alternate timeline is NOT true. The idea of infanticide is repulsive, and way too dark than anything Snyder has done. Jesus.
Meanwhile, there are rumours going around that Ezra Miller had been suffering from "frequent meltdowns" on the set of The Flash, with some anonymous source saying he was "losing it". Although, the source did stress that Miller never showed any violent outbursts or even yelled at anyone. Discovery execs are going to have a meeting to decide what to do about the matter.
If this is true then this puts WB in yet another unfavourable light, if you ask me. Miller may be responsible for the alleged crimes he has been accused of, but there were apparent signs of serious psychological instability that the studio failed to address and react adequately. Even if Miller didn't threaten anyone on the set - hell, if he hadn't gotten in trouble with the law, it sounds like he is unfit and needs help. At this stage, he might be a threat to himself as well as other people.
I repeat, that doesn't excuse Miller's violent behaviour. But if there were visible warning signs that the studio failed to handle properly, or worse - ignored it for the longest time up until now - that's their fault for giving this film, and Flash as a franchise, another handicap.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Mon, 4 Apr 2022, 15:00
In response to a couple of fake plot leaks that are circulating a very reliable scooper has confirmed that Barry is actually creating time lines that mash elements from other time lines together. They went on to say that the Keaton Batman of the 'Burton' canon is not exactly the same Batman of Earth-89, and yet he is. Apparently he is a variant who experienced both Batman 1989 and Batman Returns, but his time line is a divergence created by Barry, which is why Sasha Calle's Supergirl exists in his universe as well. Barry then of course creates the rebirth time line.
So basically the Keaton Batman in
The Flash is getting New52 Bryan Singered.
Where, rather than take the
Spider-Man: No Way Home approach, we're given yet again a variant who is bestowed a "vague history" where events and characters themselves are prone to retcons simply in order to fit the currently pushed narrative...
Truly remarkable.
Where "this" might have happened, but not "that". Where Michael Gough's Alfred existed, but not Pat Hingle's Gordon. Where the Joker exists, but he wasn't Jack Napier, didn't murder the Waynes, didn't fall to his death, but probably will still use famous off-repeated quotes from the Nicholson version. Where the Penguin exists, but isn't "quite" what we know of from Batman Returns. Likely keeping the Penguin having ran for Mayor once upon a time, and subsequently outed, but blatantly undoing the nefarious plot of kidnapping and murdering children (if those "Comeback for Cobblepot" Gotham Globe newspaper headlines are any indication, cause REALLY .... how does one comeback from THAT?), along with, like Joker, his own death being retconned out as well.
With
The Flash, the film, at least, has the luxury of using the novelty of Michael Keaton returning in an attempt to get this "vague history/retcon heavy" idea over with the audience (even if it does take some of the oomph and wind out of the sails for those of us who love the Burton films "as is"). When
Superman Returns came out in 2006, they only had ... Brandon Routh. Which was noticeably insufficient. However, unlike growing up being OK with the idea that Keaton/Kilmer/Clooney were ultimately all the same Batman in their movies, I never could view Routh's version as nothing more than a variant of Christopher Reeve's Superman. No matter what kinda vague is/isn't, kinda sorta but not really exactly ect interpretation Singer was trying to push. It didn't work, it didn't work with the New52, and it
clearly doesn't work here.
So yeah, I agree, and have stated previously, I'll just have to reluctantly yield that the Keaton Batman in
The Flash is a variant. That's the cards that are dealt, and we'll see how it goes. Again, it's probably for the best that this Flashpoint Keaton Batman is indeed a variant considering what we're actually hearing about
The Flash movie's issues and story line (to which I wouldn't doubt even further tinkering/reshoots might transpire once the merger is fully complete and new people in place). Cause this is no way a coda to the 1989/1992 films.
The Burtonverse Keaton Batman, and it's unique lore, deserves way more respect.
Quote from: The Joker on Thu, 7 Apr 2022, 03:02
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Mon, 4 Apr 2022, 15:00
In response to a couple of fake plot leaks that are circulating a very reliable scooper has confirmed that Barry is actually creating time lines that mash elements from other time lines together. They went on to say that the Keaton Batman of the 'Burton' canon is not exactly the same Batman of Earth-89, and yet he is. Apparently he is a variant who experienced both Batman 1989 and Batman Returns, but his time line is a divergence created by Barry, which is why Sasha Calle's Supergirl exists in his universe as well. Barry then of course creates the rebirth time line.
So basically the Keaton Batman in The Flash is getting New52 Bryan Singered.
Where, rather than take the Spider-Man: No Way Home approach, we're given yet again a variant who is bestowed a "vague history" where events and characters themselves are prone to retcons simply in order to fit the currently pushed narrative...
Truly remarkable.
Where "this" might have happened, but not "that". Where Michael Gough's Alfred existed, but not Pat Hingle's Gordon. Where the Joker exists, but he wasn't Jack Napier, didn't murder the Waynes, didn't fall to his death, but probably will still use famous off-repeated quotes from the Nicholson version. Where the Penguin exists, but isn't "quite" what we know of from Batman Returns. Likely keeping the Penguin having ran for Mayor once upon a time, and subsequently outed, but blatantly undoing the nefarious plot of kidnapping and murdering children (if those "Comeback for Cobblepot" Gotham Globe newspaper headlines are any indication, cause REALLY .... how does one comeback from THAT?), along with, like Joker, his own death being retconned out as well.
With The Flash, the film, at least, has the luxury of using the novelty of Michael Keaton returning in an attempt to get this "vague history/retcon heavy" idea over with the audience (even if it does take some of the oomph and wind out of the sails for those of us who love the Burton films "as is"). When Superman Returns came out in 2006, they only had ... Brandon Routh. Which was noticeably insufficient. However, unlike growing up being OK with the idea that Keaton/Kilmer/Clooney were ultimately all the same Batman in their movies, I never could view Routh's version as nothing more than a variant of Christopher Reeve's Superman. No matter what kinda vague is/isn't, kinda sorta but not really exactly ect interpretation Singer was trying to push. It didn't work, it didn't work with the New52, and it clearly doesn't work here.
So yeah, I agree, and have stated previously, I'll just have to reluctantly yield that the Keaton Batman in The Flash is a variant. That's the cards that are dealt, and we'll see how it goes. Again, it's probably for the best that this Flashpoint Keaton Batman is indeed a variant considering what we're actually hearing about The Flash movie's issues and story line (to which I wouldn't doubt even further tinkering/reshoots might transpire once the merger is fully complete and new people in place). Cause this is no way a coda to the 1989/1992 films.
The Burtonverse Keaton Batman, and it's unique lore, deserves way more respect.
100% agreed. But according to somebody here, this is the perfect time to correct some of Burton's "mistakes". GTFO here, I say.
On a broader scale, however, I think the Ezra Miller situation is a lot more concerning at the moment. It's now looking likely he's going to be recast. And if that happens, you should definitely expect massive reshoots. Depending how extensive it is, we might see yet another delay.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Thu, 7 Apr 2022, 04:13
I think the Ezra Miller situation is a lot more concerning at the moment. It's now looking likely he's going to be recast. And if that happens, you should definitely expect massive reshoots. Depending how extensive it is, we might see yet another delay.
Yeah, who knows how this is going to shake out? Ezra's on a Labeouf PR level of being a wild card, and it's still well over a year until the release date of
The Flash as it stands 'right now'. Like you said, reading that this movie is going to undergo 'significant reshoots' (ala Dr. Strange Multiverse of Madness) in the not-too-distant future, and as a consequence possibly getting pushed back yet again, wouldn't be the least bit surprising. Good times.
Not sure how I feel about potential Reshoots ala Back to the Future (ironic lol). Filming is pretty much done, finish it and drop Miller after by introding another flash (as rumor suggests). Otherise it's honestly a waste of resources if they have to refilm basically the whole film.
With the Zodd thing. I'm mixed (mostly because it's a varrient and somthing that sounds like a quick reshoot or even ADR could fix).
NWH was handled pretty well, but as I stated earlier, that film (and Multiverse of Madness) already have this film dead in the water because thats what people are going to expect (and possibly demand) from a multiverse film.
Atleast the overall testscreenings seem positive
Plus we'll see what Discovery does
Keaton's return in this film was always going to be defined as a variant to me anyway--the true continuation to me will always be the Schumacher films.
Quote from: DocLathropBrown on Thu, 7 Apr 2022, 16:27
Keaton's return in this film was always going to be defined as a variant to me anyway--the true continuation to me will always be the Schumacher films.
I never viewed those as actual sequels, they're much too different in look, style, and tone. Even though I like Returns, I'm not even crazy about how different that is from the 89 film.
Update re: those Ezra Miller meltdown rumours:
Quote
Ezra Miller Update: Via IGN, a source with WB Studios has rebuked the original report from Rolling Stone saying that no such emergency meeting took place and dismissing the claims as exaggeration
#TheFlash
https://twitter.com/FlashFilmNews/status/1512152359736074245
This is either damage control, or somebody is lying here.
With that said, anyone who has paid attention to Warner's PR history knows they blatantly lie and order hit pieces, see Jason Momoa and Frosty the Snowman, and for all we know, this could be some bitter, agenda-driven executive trying to use Miller's legal troubles as a scapegoat for The Flash's problems. Assuming if it's true that the claims over Miller's issues on the set are greatly exaggerated, of course.
Now that the Discovery merger will be completed either today or Monday, let's hope the new regime will continue to clean house and this will be the last time we see suspicious gossiping and hit pieces, and the studio's reputation begins to improve.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun, 3 Apr 2022, 20:33
McConaughey would have been the perfect actor to have played Barry if WB had made a Flash movie back in the 2000s. Take his character from Interstellar and mix him with Jim Caviezel's character from Frequency (2000) and you've got an excellent model for how to faithfully depict the Pre-Crisis Barry Allen in a live action film.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWIdq--nc-8
Focusing on how Barry's heroics affect the important people in his life is the key to getting him right in a movie. Those connections are where the emotional drama comes from.
The more I think about it, the more I want to see a standalone Flash movie trilogy set in its own universe. I've got an idea for how I'd do it, taking visual and stylistic cues from old Tony Scott movies like Top Gun (1986) and Days of Thunder (1990). Like Scott's cinematographers, I'd make heavy use of neutral-density filters to imbue the sky with a moody orange overcast that threatens lightning at any moment. This would help define the look of the films.
(https://i.postimg.cc/vTgKbkP2/1.png)
(https://i.postimg.cc/G3434pVV/2.png)
(https://i.postimg.cc/rsBPmj3V/3.png)
I might even reference the soundtracks from those older movies to give the Flash score a cool yet slightly melancholy ambience.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEna8SZYlHU
The tone of the Flash movies should be lighter than the Batman films, but not as comedic as the MCU. They should be mostly dramatic science fiction/crime adventure films with humour used strategically and discreetly, but never at the expense of the drama (e.g. the tired MCU trope of someone saying or doing something inappropriate during a dramatic moment to get a cheap laugh from the audience and offset the tension). In general, the Flash films shouldn't be dark except when necessitated by the plot.
Another cinematic influence I'd draw from is Ron Fricke, and specifically his cinéma pur trilogy of Chronos (1985), Baraka (1992) and Samsara (2011). Fricke's breathtaking use of time-lapse photography showcases the ideal technique for conveying the passage of time in purely cinematic language. I'd fill the Flash movies with similar imagery of lightning storms over deserts, solar eclipses and racing cloudscapes. And I'd capture this footage in camera instead of creating it digitally.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCWeB-XznEk
I'd give the Flash an iconic and heroic musical theme to match those of Donner's Superman and Burton's Batman. I'd base it on Vangelis' Oscar-winning score for Chariots of Fire (1981).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pQlRZZ9NMs
I want to go back to this, and say that I appreciate this well thought out post about the overwhelming potential a 2000s-early 2010's Flash trilogy would have had. Especially so with the notion of it being set within itself. Only having to be preoccupied with where the story of Barry Allen as the Flash would take itself, and not so much in how well it 'fits' within a shared universe narrative. Sometimes, being self contained is a actual great benefit, rather than a falsely perceived hindrance due to it not being tied into such-and-such.
I especially like Silver's idea of a 2000's Matthew McConaughey as Barry Allen/Flash, as well as giving the trilogy a Tony Scott visual cinematography aesthetic look. Similar to Ben Affleck, I think a lot of people, had written off McConaughey by the early-to-mid 2000's as nothing more than an actor who was more comfortable doing rom coms than anything of true substance, but like Affleck, he slowly but surely turned the tide on that misinformed perception, and has proven to be quite the dramatic actor. I think if the script was strong, McConaughey could have been a very ideal cinematic Barry Allen. The Tony Scott visual cues would have been pretty outstanding, and easily could have set it apart from the Blades, X-Mens, Spider-Mans, by just it's graphicd and distinct cinematography that certainly assist the idea and notion of speed. As Silver pointed out, Top Gun and Days of Thunder's visuals set the tone, and it should be interminably constant throughout the films and trilogy.
QuoteThe first film in the trilogy would be based on the Silver Age stories of Robert Kanigher, John Broome and Gardner Fox. It would have a fairly balanced and optimistic tone without veering into full comedy. Most of the classic Rogues would appear (Captain Cold, Mirror Master, Pied Piper, Captain Boomerang, Trickster, etc), with Grodd being the main villain who takes control of their minds to use them as his agents against the Flash. Barry's romance with Iris West would feature prominently, as would his relationship with Nora and Henry Allen.
The second film would be a lot darker and would take its cues from Cary Bates' Bronze Age run, and specifically the 1979-1985 period that led up to Barry's death. Reverse Flash would be the main villain, with a dominant presence similar to that of the Joker in The Dark Knight. Wally West would be introduced as Kid Flash, both Nora and Iris would be killed by Thawne, and Henry would be falsely imprisoned for his wife's murder. The movie would end with Barry sacrificing himself to stop Thawne and the teenage Wally stepping up to become the new Flash.
The final film in the trilogy would take place after a ten-year time jump, with the adult Wally now firmly established as the Flash. Halfway through the movie, Barry would emerge from the Speed Force to reclaim his mantle and settle his score with Eobard Thawne, who by now has become Black Flash. Barry would travel through time to prevent Thawne from killing Iris and Nora – without giving rise to the Flashpoint universe – and everything would be set right. This film would take its comic book influences from Mark Waid's Post-Crisis run and Geoff Johns' Rebirth storyline, and it would end the trilogy on a note of closure similar to The Dark Knight Rises. Any Rogues who didn't appear in the first two films would make appearances in this one, but Black Flash would be the central antagonist.
I like these synopsis ideas for a Flash trilogy a lot, but allow me to spit ball for a minute.
Movie #1: Agreed that the film would take much inspiration from the Silver Age stories of Robert Kanigher, Gardner Fox, and John Broome. Balanced and optimistic tone, check. To me, the film should primarily focus on Barry Allen as a character, discovering his powers, using his powers for good and becoming the Flash, and of course his romance with Iris West. With Wally appearing as a young teen, but keeping his screen time rather sparing. I like the idea of Gorilla Grodd as the main villain in the first film, especially since it was apparent that Grodd was being set up as THE Flash villain during those early Silver Age stories, but i would exclude the Rogues completely. Just to keep the film's budget in mind, I would actually hold Grodd back from making an appearance until probably the 3rd half of the film (though having Grodd make Barry's acquaintance via mind controlled humans). There, it would go balls to the wall with an invasion of Central City by Grodd's followers from Gorilla City. Personally I would make Grodd noticeably, but not overtly larger than his followers. Perhaps, even giving him distinct and glaringly deep red eyes in an effort to make him stand out as more nefarious than the other gorilla's. Barry would have his work cut out for him trying to take on a well prepared army of Grodd disciples, where he then meets Solovar. Barry initially believes he just ran into a 2nd or 3rd wave of Gorilla City invaders, and battles Solovar which ends in a stalemate. It's when Barry believes there's no way he can overcome the odds, is where Solovar reveals he's actually there with his troops to fight off Grodd's forces. Now sure, there can be some humor incorporated during all of this to lighten/break the tension of the invasion that's going on all around Central City at this point, I mean, I could see Barry saying to himself during this saying, "I'm the fastest man alive one day, and fighting an army of gorilla's the next. Life sure moves
fast!" However, I agree with Silver's assessment that it shouldn't delve into continual quips and snark. Anyway, Flash, Solovar and his army team up to take down Grodd and his followers and eventually succeed. Grodd is incarcerated back into Gorilla City, and the film ends with a tender moment between Barry and Iris.
Perhaps a very quick cameo of the Reverse-Flash traveling through time to current day as a after credit stinger. Course, this would be in the 2000's where after credit scenes wasn't the norm, so it's optional.
Movie #2: Pretty much the rise of the Rogues, with Wally getting powers, learning how to deal with them via tutelage from Barry, and steadily fitting into his role as Kid Flash. I would also evoke the notion that the numbers of the Rogues are eventually just too great for Barry to realistically deal with (I would probably make it clear that Captain Cold is very sly and clever as a schemer/planner), to where Barry truly needs Wally's assistance as Kid Flash despite Barry's reluctance to get him involved. With the Reverse-Flash, I would have him appear, but only in very small doses. Keeping him rather evanescent, where he's only quickly glimpsed getting involved. Even going so far in having him briefly appear aiding the Rogues, and even Barry with Wally as well at times. Of course, all to serve his own mysterious needs and agenda, but constantly perplexing and enigmatic. The Rogues are eventually defeated, and Barry proposes to Iris.
Movie #3: The concluding chapter of the Trilogy would really jump into the speed force, the negative speed force, Eobard Thawne revealing himself to be the Reverse-Flash, traveling through time and dimensions, ect. All with the backdrop of Barry set to marry Iris, and the Reverse-Flash using his knowledge of the Flash to his sinister benefit in threatening as well as cruelly taunting all of those close to Barry. Including Wally. if there would be a dark chapter in the trilogy, this would be it. The fights between the Flash and Reverse-Flash would be visual spectacles, and in move to use 'artistic license', I would essentially merge Iris West with Fiona Webb by having her, innocently, waiting at the alter for Barry near the end of the flm (perhaps even due to Barry's insistence) all while Barry and Eobard are speed fighting across the globe, but steadily heading directly for the church. Now Snyder-like slo mo would really accentuate this, but Eobard would be mere inches away from landing the killing blow on Iris, where Barry screams, wraps his arm around Eobard's neck, and snaps it.
(https://s3.birthmoviesdeath.com/images/made/FFTrial7_1200_848_81_s.jpg)
The Reverse-Flash is dead, and Iris goes to console Barry, but Barry realizes he's slowly now becoming
apart of the speed force, and he begins saying his goodbyes to both Iris and Wally. Appearing to literally be violently dissolving right in front of them, and Barry not knowing if he may die in moments or not, tells Iris he loves her, and gives Wally a deeply inspirational talk by stating that he can be a Flash that even exceeds Barry himself. Barry appears to be ripped apart within the speed force, and disappears. Leaving Iris and Wally devastated. Slow cut to black: Sometime later, Wally and Iris are seen talking about Barry inside Iris' apartment. Giving the audience the impression that Iris will now serve as something of a spiritual moral guide to Wally. As Wally leaves, the camera slowly pans towards Iris' bedroom dresser where a framed picture of Barry and Iris during happier times sits. The film concludes with Wally, the new Flash, racing towards the camera. Internally monologuing that he will always strive to live up to the example Barry set, and that he's the fastest man alive. Cut to black. End Credits.
Just spit balling of course, but I don't know, something like that.
Quote from: The Joker on Fri, 8 Apr 2022, 01:58I especially like Silver's idea of a 2000's Matthew McConaughey as Barry Allen/Flash, as well as giving the trilogy a Tony Scott visual cinematography aesthetic look. Similar to Ben Affleck, I think a lot of people, had written off McConaughey by the early-to-mid 2000's as nothing more than an actor who was more comfortable doing rom coms than anything of true substance, but like Affleck, he slowly but surely turned the tide on that misinformed perception, and has proven to be quite the dramatic actor. I think if the script was strong, McConaughey could have been a very ideal cinematic Barry Allen.
I'm definitely guilty of underestimating those actors. I'd also add DiCaprio to the list. I couldn't stand him back in the nineties, but over the past two decades I've come to recognise his talent. In McConaughey's case, it frustrated me that he went from making serious films like Amistad to doing mostly romantic comedies for a time. Obviously he's broken out of that niche since then, and I've become more appreciative of his abilities. But yes, he would have been a terrific Barry Allen back in the 2000s. He had the right look, height and physical build, and I think he could have brought a laid back Paul Newman quality to the part that would have gelled with the whole Tony Scott approach. That could've been one seriously cool movie.
I wonder though if a Flash movie
had been made in the 2000s, would it have been more likely to focus on Wally than Barry? This would presumably have been prior to Barry's return in Final Crisis (2008), back when the Mark Waid and Geoff Johns runs, both starring Wally, were considered trendier and more contemporary than any of the old Barry stories. If so, might the studio have taken an approach similar to Ant-Man whereby the movie focused on a later incarnation of the title character while still acknowledging his predecessor in a supporting role? Just as Hank Pym appeared in Ant-Man, despite the movie primarily focussing on his successor, so Barry could have appeared in flashbacks or visions in a Wally-centric film. Barry's death might have been the past trauma that haunted and motivated Wally throughout the movie.
A good basis for a Wally Flash film might have been The Return of Barry Allen (1993). That story would position Wally as the hero while also heavily referencing Barry's past adventures and capitalising on Professor Zoom as the main villain. As a Barry fanboy, I'd obviously prefer a trilogy of Flash films focusing on him, but if hypothetically we were limiting ourselves to a standalone Wally Flash film made in the 2000s then an adaptation of The Return of Barry Allen might have been the way to go.
Quote from: The Joker on Fri, 8 Apr 2022, 01:58Movie #1: Agreed that the film would take much inspiration from the Silver Age stories of Robert Kanigher, Gardner Fox, and John Broome. Balanced and optimistic tone, check. To me, the film should primarily focus on Barry Allen as a character, discovering his powers, using his powers for good and becoming the Flash, and of course his romance with Iris West. With Wally appearing as a young teen, but keeping his screen time rather sparing. I like the idea of Gorilla Grodd as the main villain in the first film, especially since it was apparent that Grodd was being set up as THE Flash villain during those early Silver Age stories, but i would exclude the Rogues completely. Just to keep the film's budget in mind, I would actually hold Grodd back from making an appearance until probably the 3rd half of the film (though having Grodd make Barry's acquaintance via mind controlled humans). There, it would go balls to the wall with an invasion of Central City by Grodd's followers from Gorilla City. Personally I would make Grodd noticeably, but not overtly larger than his followers. Perhaps, even giving him distinct and glaringly deep red eyes in an effort to make him stand out as more nefarious than the other gorilla's. Barry would have his work cut out for him trying to take on a well prepared army of Grodd disciples, where he then meets Solovar. Barry initially believes he just ran into a 2nd or 3rd wave of Gorilla City invaders, and battles Solovar which ends in a stalemate. It's when Barry believes there's no way he can overcome the odds, is where Solovar reveals he's actually there with his troops to fight off Grodd's forces. Now sure, there can be some humor incorporated during all of this to lighten/break the tension of the invasion that's going on all around Central City at this point, I mean, I could see Barry saying to himself during this saying, "I'm the fastest man alive one day, and fighting an army of gorilla's the next. Life sure moves fast!" However, I agree with Silver's assessment that it shouldn't delve into continual quips and snark. Anyway, Flash, Solovar and his army team up to take down Grodd and his followers and eventually succeed. Grodd is incarcerated back into Gorilla City, and the film ends with a tender moment between Barry and Iris.
I'm convinced Grodd could work in live action, especially after the superb Plant of the Apes prequel trilogy we got in the last decade. A Flash movie featuring Grodd would essentially be like Rise of the Planet of Apes if Caesar had been portrayed as an evil megalomaniac. As for who could have portrayed Grodd, there's only one man for the job.
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cartoonbrew.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F07%2Fserkis-apes.jpg&hash=d853f9636619cb5e0e6492318765696d92b96088)
Yes, it's typecasting. But is there anyone better at playing primates than Serkis? Even before he portrayed Kong in the 2005 movie, he'd already incorporated certain simian mannerisms into his performance as Gollum in The Lord of the Ring trilogy. Serkis as Grodd versus McConaughey's Flash would have been great. And for Reverse Flash, how about Damian Lewis? He's about the same age as McConaughey and is only an inch or two taller than him. In costume, they'd have looked evenly matched.
(https://i.postimg.cc/sDqfBrMz/lewis.png)
Quote from: The Joker on Fri, 8 Apr 2022, 01:58The fights between the Flash and Reverse-Flash would be visual spectacles, and in move to use 'artistic license', I would essentially merge Iris West with Fiona Webb by having her, innocently, waiting at the alter for Barry near the end of the flm (perhaps even due to Barry's insistence) all while Barry and Eobard are speed fighting across the globe, but steadily heading directly for the church. Now Snyder-like slo mo would really accentuate this, but Eobard would be mere inches away from landing the killing blow on Iris, where Barry screams, wraps his arm around Eobard's neck, and snaps it.
(https://s3.birthmoviesdeath.com/images/made/FFTrial7_1200_848_81_s.jpg)
I like this idea. One thing that's always bothered me about Barry's storyline is how the writers completely disregarded Fiona following the Trial of the Flash arc. Barry was meant to be in love with her. He was even going to marry her. Then, after Zoom ruined their wedding, poor Fiona was more or less abandoned by Barry, went insane and ended up being committed to a mental hospital. Nowadays she hardly ever gets mentioned, similar to how the modern Daredevil comics tend to overlook the fact that Matt Murdock has an ex-wife locked away in a psychiatric hospital. But at least Milla does sometimes get referenced in the Daredevil comics, and Matt has written to her on occasion, whereas Barry just turned his back on Fiona and she's been largely forgotten ever since.
Amalgamating Fiona and Iris into a single person would give the former character a chance for closure that she never received in the comics. It would also streamline and condense the two attacks by Reverse Flash into a single event that would keep comic fans guessing about the outcome. Would Zoom succeed in killing Barry's bride, as in the case of Iris, or would the Flash stop him, as in the case of Fiona?
Quote from: The Joker on Fri, 8 Apr 2022, 01:58The Reverse-Flash is dead, and Iris goes to console Barry, but Barry realizes he's slowly now becoming apart of the speed force, and he begins saying his goodbyes to both Iris and Wally. Appearing to literally be violently dissolving right in front of them, and Barry not knowing if he may die in moments or not, tells Iris he loves her, and gives Wally a deeply inspirational talk by stating that he can be a Flash that even exceeds Barry himself. Barry appears to be ripped apart within the speed force, and disappears. Leaving Iris and Wally devastated. Slow cut to black: Sometime later, Wally and Iris are seen talking about Barry inside Iris' apartment. Giving the audience the impression that Iris will now serve as something of a spiritual moral guide to Wally. As Wally leaves, the camera slowly pans towards Iris' bedroom dresser where a framed picture of Barry and Iris during happier times sits. The film concludes with Wally, the new Flash, racing towards the camera. Internally monologuing that he will always strive to live up to the example Barry set, and that he's the fastest man alive. Cut to black. End Credits.
Just spit balling of course, but I don't know, something like that.
If we're talking about a Flash trilogy made in the 2000s, contemporaneous with something like Raimi's Spider-Man trilogy, then your idea for the final entry would work better than mine. My third film concept was based on later comics published after Barry's return, so obviously that material would have been off limits throughout most of the 2000s. At any rate, the ideas put forward in this thread have demonstrated that you could theoretically condense the most important aspects of Barry Allen's history into a neat cinematic trilogy. There are a few things we left out, like Jay Garrick and Ralph Dibny, but they could be added to the mix without too much difficulty.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sat, 9 Apr 2022, 17:45
I'm definitely guilty of underestimating those actors. I'd also add DiCaprio to the list. I couldn't stand him back in the nineties, but over the past two decades I've come to recognise his talent. In McConaughey's case, it frustrated me that he went from making serious films like Amistad to doing mostly romantic comedies for a time. Obviously he's broken out of that niche since then, and I've become more appreciative of his abilities. But yes, he would have been a terrific Barry Allen back in the 2000s. He had the right look, height and physical build, and I think he could have brought a laid back Paul Newman quality to the part that would have gelled with the whole Tony Scott approach. That could've been one seriously cool movie.
I know what you mean. I pretty much avoided Leonardo Dicaprio until
The Departed (Jack Nicholson being directed by Martin Scorsese? There was no way in hell I was going to miss
that movie!). Affleck, I was kinda indifferent on, until
Hollywoodland. Which, coincidentally, also came out in 2006. Took a little longer to take notice of McConaughey as an actor, but it was there all along.
QuoteI wonder though if a Flash movie had been made in the 2000s, would it have been more likely to focus on Wally than Barry? This would presumably have been prior to Barry's return in Final Crisis (2008), back when the Mark Waid and Geoff Johns runs, both starring Wally, were considered trendier and more contemporary than any of the old Barry stories. If so, might the studio have taken an approach similar to Ant-Man whereby the movie focused on a later incarnation of the title character while still acknowledging his predecessor in a supporting role? Just as Hank Pym appeared in Ant-Man, despite the movie primarily focussing on his successor, so Barry could have appeared in flashbacks or visions in a Wally-centric film. Barry's death might have been the past trauma that haunted and motivated Wally throughout the movie.
Good question. I tend to think that, especially back in the early-mid 2000's, Hollywood would have just went with the idea of merging Barry and Wally together as much as possible (kinda like Chris O'Donnell's Robin taking influences from not just solely Dick Grayson), rather than try and establish that there was a Flash in the past, and now here's the present version (ala Ant-Man). I think the MCU could get away with that by the time Ant-Man was released, but that scenario might have been viewed as a bridge too far back in the 2000's in a self contained Flash trilogy of films that doesn't have the 'shared universe' crutch, and exclusively designed to introduce that character to the masses....
QuoteA good basis for a Wally Flash film might have been The Return of Barry Allen (1993). That story would position Wally as the hero while also heavily referencing Barry's past adventures and capitalising on Professor Zoom as the main villain. As a Barry fanboy, I'd obviously prefer a trilogy of Flash films focusing on him, but if hypothetically we were limiting ourselves to a standalone Wally Flash film made in the 2000s then an adaptation of The Return of Barry Allen might have been the way to go.
Yeah, I know what you mean. I kinda kept that "Return of Barry Allen" story in the back of my head when I was giving out treatments for a 2000's Flash series of films. McConaughey could have taken a break from the Flash following the 3rd film, and whoever playing Wally would of course be up front and center for a 4th Flash film. I don't know whether I would pull the trigger on the "Return of Barry Allen" story with the 5th or 6th Flash film (essentially the Wally West trilogy), but it definitely would have been in there somewhere. In the grand scheme of things, something like that might have enticed McConaughey into returning to the Flash franchise (if theoretically he was playing hard ball on returning), as it would give him the opportunity to play "Barry Allen" in a different light.
QuoteI'm convinced Grodd could work in live action, especially after the superb Plant of the Apes prequel trilogy we got in the last decade. A Flash movie featuring Grodd would essentially be like Rise of the Planet of Apes if Caesar had been portrayed as an evil megalomaniac. As for who could have portrayed Grodd, there's only one man for the job.
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cartoonbrew.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F07%2Fserkis-apes.jpg&hash=d853f9636619cb5e0e6492318765696d92b96088)
Yes, it's typecasting. But is there anyone better at playing primates than Serkis? Even before he portrayed Kong in the 2005 movie, he'd already incorporated certain simian mannerisms into his performance as Gollum in The Lord of the Ring trilogy. Serkis as Grodd versus McConaughey's Flash would have been great.
Oh, no doubt about it. 8)
QuoteAnd for Reverse Flash, how about Damian Lewis? He's about the same age as McConaughey and is only an inch or two taller than him. In costume, they'd have looked evenly matched.
(https://i.postimg.cc/sDqfBrMz/lewis.png)
Not a bad choice. I kinda think a 2000's Viggo Mortensen could have played a cinematic Reverse-Flash convincingly as well. Both Damian and Viggo undeniably have the on screen charisma to make Prof Zoom a memorable villain.
QuoteOne thing that's always bothered me about Barry's storyline is how the writers completely disregarded Fiona following the Trial of the Flash arc. Barry was meant to be in love with her. He was even going to marry her. Then, after Zoom ruined their wedding, poor Fiona was more or less abandoned by Barry, went insane and ended up being committed to a mental hospital. Nowadays she hardly ever gets mentioned, similar to how the modern Daredevil comics tend to overlook the fact that Matt Murdock has an ex-wife locked away in a psychiatric hospital. But at least Milla does sometimes get referenced in the Daredevil comics, and Matt has written to her on occasion, whereas Barry just turned his back on Fiona and she's been largely forgotten ever since.
Yeah, it's kinda/sorta like the Cyclops/Madelyne Pryor deal over in the X-Men books back in the '80's. Originally, I think the idea was that Cyclops, following Jean's death, would meet a human woman, who looked remarkably like Jean, settle down, and basically become a reserve member of the X-Men. Once Jean returned, I think the writers actually had Scott abandoning his family to be with Jean again, and it really didn't paint Scott Summers in a good light. Then, you got the business of retconning Madelyne as a clone of Jean, becoming the Goblin Queen, yada yada yada. Maybe it's best Fiona has been left alone ever since "The Trial" arc considering what DC might do to her (ala Nora Fries as Lazara. Which was laughable).
QuoteAmalgamating Fiona and Iris into a single person would give the former character a chance for closure that she never received in the comics. It would also streamline and condense the two attacks by Reverse Flash into a single event that would keep comic fans guessing about the outcome. Would Zoom succeed in killing Barry's bride, as in the case of Iris, or would the Flash stop him, as in the case of Fiona?
True. It's like the Mary Jane/Gwen deal in 2002's
Spider-Man to some extent. Admittedly, I was drawing from that with Iris/Fiona.
QuoteIf we're talking about a Flash trilogy made in the 2000s, contemporaneous with something like Raimi's Spider-Man trilogy, then your idea for the final entry would work better than mine. My third film concept was based on later comics published after Barry's return, so obviously that material would have been off limits throughout most of the 2000s. At any rate, the ideas put forward in this thread have demonstrated that you could theoretically condense the most important aspects of Barry Allen's history into a neat cinematic trilogy. There are a few things we left out, like Jay Garrick and Ralph Dibny, but they could be added to the mix without too much difficulty.
Yeah, I'm sure there would have been liberties taken with the history/continuity with a 2000's Flash trilogy, resulting in the cinematic Flash that discernibly differentiates itself from the comic version. However, as you call forth, the material is all there, it's just a matter of how it's adapted.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sat, 9 Apr 2022, 17:45
A good basis for a Wally Flash film might have been The Return of Barry Allen (1993). That story would position Wally as the hero while also heavily referencing Barry's past adventures and capitalising on Professor Zoom as the main villain. As a Barry fanboy, I'd obviously prefer a trilogy of Flash films focusing on him, but if hypothetically we were limiting ourselves to a standalone Wally Flash film made in the 2000s then an adaptation of The Return of Barry Allen might have been the way to go.
I spent most of junior high and all of high school daydreaming about a series of Flash movies.
The idea I eventually settled on was to constantly keep Jay Garrick on the periphery as a supporting character, mentor for Barry and grandfather figure for Wally. Basically, Jay could be the connective tissue holding the various movies together similar to what Michael Gough did as Alfred.
In terms of characterizations, I thought it best to adapt Barry more or less in his Pre-Crisis mold. He's straight laced, honest and sincere. If he needs to have a flaw of some type, I thought it best that he be portrayed as overconfident at times. Nothing fatal to his character. But at the same time, I don't want to see Barry played as a screwup that somebody always has to slap back into line.
From there, you could introduce Wally in Barry Flash I (ideally use Kobra as the villain), give him powers in Barry Flash II, set him up as Kid Flash in Barry Flash III (where Barry somehow gets sucked into the Speed Force) and then set him up as headliner of his own movie series in Wally Flash I.
And yes, Wally Flash I could easily be based on The Return Of Barry Allen. Sprinkling in elements of the first year or so of the Mike Baron run also seems like a no-brainer.
After that, you've got plenty of options based on comic book storylines. But for Wally Flash III, my move would be adapting Terminal Velocity... but tweak it to where Wally brings Barry back with him from the Speed Force in the big climactic showdown with Kobra (to tie back in with Barry Flash I).
...
Man, I gave this stuff a LOT of thought as a teenager!
Potential spoilers for Flash: This one I think is accurate. Mostly first act stuff.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FQFShy8WQAQ-ph_?format=jpg&name=large)
"Quicksilver", "felt like a Marvel movie", "Batman almost [dies]... but Wonder Woman saves the day".
fml
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Mon, 11 Apr 2022, 19:00
Potential spoilers for Flash: This one I think is accurate. Mostly first act stuff.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FQFShy8WQAQ-ph_?format=jpg&name=large)
This has been corroborated by other reliable sources now. Barry and his attempted alterations are booted IE rejected from the Snyderverse(Earth Prime). A new parallel world (Earth-2), a conglomeration of variant histories (the main ones being Supergirl Variant x Burton Batman Variant x DCEU variant) is created. This is the word Barry is now stuck on and must save.
Quote from: The Joker on Sun, 10 Apr 2022, 00:20I tend to think that, especially back in the early-mid 2000's, Hollywood would have just went with the idea of merging Barry and Wally together as much as possible (kinda like Chris O'Donnell's Robin taking influences from not just solely Dick Grayson), rather than try and establish that there was a Flash in the past, and now here's the present version (ala Ant-Man).
I was glad the Batchlers acknowledged that about Robin. I like O'Donnell's Robin, but if you view him solely as the Dick Grayson of the comics then he's obviously a very flawed reflection of the character in the source material. However, if you recognise the influence of Todd and Drake, then O'Donnell's iteration is a reasonably satisfying composite of the three Robins that had existed up until that point (not counting Elseworld Robins like Carrie Kelley). Same goes For John Wesley Shipp's Flash. I rate him as the best live action Flash so far, but his characterisation is almost as indebted to the Wally Flash of the Post-Crisis comics as he is to the Pre-Crisis Barry. But it worked at the time. And I can see WB doing something similar in the 2000s.
Quote from: The Joker on Sun, 10 Apr 2022, 00:20Not a bad choice. I kinda think a 2000's Viggo Mortensen could have played a cinematic Reverse-Flash convincingly as well. Both Damian and Viggo undeniably have the on screen charisma to make Prof Zoom a memorable villain.
I hadn't considered Viggo, but he could certainly have worked as Thawne. He's more than a decade older than McConaughey, but he was in good physical shape back in the 2000s and was roughly the same height as McConaughey. He obviously had the acting talent too. A Flash film of that era would have coincided with the peak years of Mortensen's career, around the time he made The Lord of the Rings trilogy, A History of Violence and Eastern Promises. Definitely a good casting choice for Reverse Flash.
Quote from: The Joker on Sun, 10 Apr 2022, 00:20Yeah, I know what you mean. I kinda kept that "Return of Barry Allen" story in the back of my head when I was giving out treatments for a 2000's Flash series of films. McConaughey could have taken a break from the Flash following the 3rd film, and whoever playing Wally would of course be up front and center for a 4th Flash film. I don't know whether I would pull the trigger on the "Return of Barry Allen" story with the 5th or 6th Flash film (essentially the Wally West trilogy), but it definitely would have been in there somewhere. In the grand scheme of things, something like that might have enticed McConaughey into returning to the Flash franchise (if theoretically he was playing hard ball on returning), as it would give him the opportunity to play "Barry Allen" in a different light.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 10 Apr 2022, 04:10The idea I eventually settled on was to constantly keep Jay Garrick on the periphery as a supporting character, mentor for Barry and grandfather figure for Wally. Basically, Jay could be the connective tissue holding the various movies together similar to what Michael Gough did as Alfred.
In terms of characterizations, I thought it best to adapt Barry more or less in his Pre-Crisis mold. He's straight laced, honest and sincere. If he needs to have a flaw of some type, I thought it best that he be portrayed as overconfident at times. Nothing fatal to his character. But at the same time, I don't want to see Barry played as a screwup that somebody always has to slap back into line.
From there, you could introduce Wally in Barry Flash I (ideally use Kobra as the villain), give him powers in Barry Flash II, set him up as Kid Flash in Barry Flash III (where Barry somehow gets sucked into the Speed Force) and then set him up as headliner of his own movie series in Wally Flash I.
And yes, Wally Flash I could easily be based on The Return Of Barry Allen. Sprinkling in elements of the first year or so of the Mike Baron run also seems like a no-brainer.
After that, you've got plenty of options based on comic book storylines. But for Wally Flash III, my move would be adapting Terminal Velocity... but tweak it to where Wally brings Barry back with him from the Speed Force in the big climatic showdown with Kobra (to tie back in with Barry Flash I).
Reading these ideas, I'm beginning to think a six-film Flash series might have been achievable. Three movies starring Barry, followed by three with Wally, with Jay popping up intermittently throughout the hexalogy. A six-film Flash saga might have been the most epic cinematic superhero franchise ever, though it would have been extremely hard to sustain a consistent level of quality across all six films.
This discussion has got me thinking about how I'd handle Superman in a self-contained movie trilogy. I've got a lot of ideas on that front, but such a discussion is probably best saved for a new thread.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Mon, 11 Apr 2022, 21:44
This discussion has got me thinking about how I'd handle Superman in a self-contained movie trilogy. I've got a lot of ideas on that front, but such a discussion is probably best saved for a new thread.
Start it. I've got ideas of my own.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Mon, 11 Apr 2022, 21:36
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Mon, 11 Apr 2022, 19:00
Potential spoilers for Flash: This one I think is accurate. Mostly first act stuff.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FQFShy8WQAQ-ph_?format=jpg&name=large)
This has been corroborated by other reliable sources now. Barry and his attempted alterations are booted IE rejected from the Snyderverse(Earth Prime). A new parallel world (Earth-2), a conglomeration of variant histories (the main ones being Supergirl Variant x Burton Batman Variant x DCEU variant) is created. This is the word Barry is now stuck on and must save.
This is backed up also by the gotham globe (89) exisiting in the Batgirl film.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQho40sT3hlzwK0WZOtHKHvYjEBSW5wB_JhpQ&usqp=CAU)
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Mon, 11 Apr 2022, 19:00
Potential spoilers for Flash: This one I think is accurate. Mostly first act stuff.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FQFShy8WQAQ-ph_?format=jpg&name=large)
Wait. Gal's in this?
I remember TLF posting about Antje Traue returning as Faora, but I don't remember anything about Gal showing up. Unless I assumed anything with Gal's Wondy was going to end up as another one of those Peacemaker body double deals.
The brass who were in charge during the filming of this wanting Flash to be a Quicksilver clone is probably the
least bit of surprising news pertaining to this list of spoilers.
Possible costume leak.
If accurate I have to say I'm loving it.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FQUGxGtXoAs8Zwl?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FQUGxGvXEAIhxoJ?format=jpg&name=large)
Looks like the same suit we saw on the stunt guy.
Quote from: Travesty on Thu, 14 Apr 2022, 16:55
Looks like the same suit we saw on the stunt guy.
I'd say it was better fitting and designed to be seen. The armor plating is more definite and the articulation sharper. I like it a lot.
More on this.
One thing I noticed was that the emblem is slightly different than this:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E3CvVFkWYAI1Rqa?format=jpg&name=medium)
That tease shows us a raised and very three dimensional bat. Also while the area above the emblem is similar, the costume test version is very rubbery, while this is very hard and steel like. I believe this photo is the 'kingdom come' inspired costume we heard about. I think this is a BvS like mech suit that Batman will use to fight Zod, while this:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FQUGxGtXoAs8Zwl?format=jpg&name=medium)
is the standard crime fighting attire that replaced his Batman Returns armor and what he still has on hand when Flash makes contact and they rescue Supergirl.
And combined and sharper
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FQU2hx5XwAgYLSS?format=jpg&name=large)
I'm probably going to be in the minority on this, but I don't care for the design. The elegance of Bob Ringwood is sorely missed. I generally don't like Batsuits that are designed to look like stylized armor--the Returns suit being an acceptable anomaly in my eyes simply because of how minimalist and Art Deco the armor design was. Otherwise, I prefer the muscle designs simply because it better resembles the comics art.
3rd act/specialty armor with extra functionality (like the Sonar/Ice suits) are alright by me, but not as the main costume. I mean, this is less busy than Pattinson's/Bale's suits... but I honestly would have preferred to just see the '89 or Returns designs re-used and just updated in terms of construction than a third design, if they were going to make it busier looking.
Also, the way the mouth opening is cut gives Keaton a pointed chin as opposed to rounded. I feel like it does his face a disservice.
It ain't the end of the world, but it's a minor bummer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaEjla4bvIo&t=184s
According to his sources the Batgirl leaked set pics is the hero suit and its made of urethane
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Thu, 14 Apr 2022, 17:37
Quote from: Travesty on Thu, 14 Apr 2022, 16:55
Looks like the same suit we saw on the stunt guy.
I'd say it was better fitting and designed to be seen. The armor plating is more definite and the articulation sharper. I like it a lot.
I wondered the same thing. I figure the movie will cut around the stunt stunt and not give a good look at it. Either that or else the stunt suit will be replaced in post with a fully rendered CGI suit.
Y'know, since this movie is apparently determined to copy everything else Marvel does.
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Fri, 15 Apr 2022, 04:28
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaEjla4bvIo&t=184s
According to his sources the Batgirl leaked set pics is the hero suit and its made of urethane
Curious to see the minimal differences between Keaton's suit in
The Flash compared to the images we've seen of his suit
Batgirl. I do miss the 89/Returns yellow belt. That was a distinct difference unique to Keaton's bat suits, and the many Batmen that have since followed afterwards.
The couple who Ezra Miller had threatened have dropped their restraining order against him, but he's not out of legal trouble.
https://au.news.yahoo.com/ezra-miller-update-couple-drops-restraining-order-191255457.html
Quote from: The Joker on Fri, 15 Apr 2022, 07:29
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Fri, 15 Apr 2022, 04:28
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaEjla4bvIo&t=184s
According to his sources the Batgirl leaked set pics is the hero suit and its made of urethane
Curious to see the minimal differences between Keaton's suit in The Flash compared to the images we've seen of his suit Batgirl. I do miss the 89/Returns yellow belt. That was a distinct difference unique to Keaton's bat suits, and the many Batmen that have since followed afterwards.
Agreed, the yellow belt is a good colour contrast from the black suit and is easier on the eyes. I wasn't too crazy about the Batgirl set photos, but this image gives a much better impression on the Batsuit. The biggest differences I can see is this photo shows the suit looking solid, whereas the Batgirl set photos showed a lot of creases around the torso and legs.
The BR costume is still my favourite Keaton Batsuit, but this new one is decent. Whatever happens in these movies, at least we can see Keaton looks good in the suit.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Thu, 14 Apr 2022, 20:21
And combined and sharper
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FQU2hx5XwAgYLSS?format=jpg&name=large)
I'm happy with the suit, but not the picture. This isn't how the big reveal of Keaton in his new costume should have appeared online. I get that the filmmakers wanted to save the reveal for when the movie comes out, but they were kidding themselves if they thought they could delay the release until summer 2023 and not have some images leak between now and then. The first picture of Keaton in the suit should have presented the costume in the most favourable light possible, giving us an idea of how it would look in the finished film. Something like this.
(https://i.postimg.cc/mgmTDNF8/b3.png)
Or this.
(https://i.postimg.cc/L6B9dM4d/b2.png)
Not this.
(https://i.postimg.cc/kXdJh5mF/b1.png)
We've now seen multiple teaser images – of the bloody chest emblem, of the back of the cowl, of Keaton's shadow – plus numerous photos and clips of the stunt suit in action. And now we've got this clear image of Keaton himself in the costume. I've been saying for months that the studio needs to release an official picture to pre-empt precisely this kind of leak, and at this stage there's literally no reason for them not to do it. We've seen the suit. We've seen Keaton in the suit. There's no surprise left, so just give us a decent picture of him on set with dramatic lighting, and where he's not smiling.
The suit itself is cool though. It feels like a fusion of the Batman Returns and Batman Begins costumes, but with the black utility belt of Kilmer's panther suit.
(https://i.postimg.cc/GpDvr243/batsuit-evolution.png)
One thing I like is all the talk about it being kind of like the Begins suit. This may be the truth in a sense. The way I see it, this isn't the third batsuit, I think this might be suit number four or five. Maybe, this was the final iteration of his standard day to day crime fighting attire worn primarily between the years 2001 and 2005, which is the era it looks like to me. The early 2000s by way of Burton's modern meets 30s-40s aesthetic. Batman at the tail end of his career. I think 2005 would be the apropos year to be Keaton-Bat's final full time tour.
Miller got arrested AGAIN.
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2022/04/19/ezra-miller-actor-who-played-flash-arrested-again-hawaii-island/
I don't expect Warner Bros Discovery will tolerate this. I believe a recast is imminent.
What a mess.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Tue, 19 Apr 2022, 22:08
Miller got arrested AGAIN.
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2022/04/19/ezra-miller-actor-who-played-flash-arrested-again-hawaii-island/
I don't expect Warner Bros Discovery will tolerate this. I believe a recast is imminent.
What a mess.
Do you mean replacing Miller through the entire movie? Because I truly don't see how that's possible, unless the idea is to either scrap the movie or shoot it all over again. Both of those would cost a fortune.
If you mean replacing Miller in future films... if I'm being honest, I don't see a way around that anymore. The guy's a liability. The last thing WBD needs right now is this kind of toxic personality so closely intertwined with what's meant to be a hugely important tentpole.
Usually, a new CEO makes one big move in his first 60 days. He starts a new program or cancels one. He announces layoffs or a hiring spree. He does something BIG to make his mark. So, what if Zaslav's One Big Move is to fire Miller? It's a no-brainer that would send a powerful message. Miller already had a target on his back. But now, matters are worse.
Jesus, Miller may just be the worst actor I have ever seen. Just pull a BTTF, and recast him like they did Eric Stoltz with Michael J Fox....which would be kinda ironic since these are both time travel movies.
What a complete and total mess of a person. He needs to be put in a psych ward immediately, or he needs to stay in jail. He's literally a danger to people around him. And why is it always women he goes after? What a terrible person.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Tue, 19 Apr 2022, 22:08
Miller got arrested AGAIN.
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2022/04/19/ezra-miller-actor-who-played-flash-arrested-again-hawaii-island/
I don't expect Warner Bros Discovery will tolerate this. I believe a recast is imminent.
What a mess.
Good grief.
If Miller's legal troubles weren't bad enough, an ex-girlfriend of his went on TikTok to say this: "You took everything from me. Ezra m***er is not a good human. And I can finally say so without being terrified. #abuser".
https://www.tiktok.com/@miaasolange/video/7089748232611335467?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=7080481245440165378
No further details as of yet. But if Miller is about to get #MeToo'd - on top of the legal sh*t he's already in - then it's certainly bye-bye.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 19 Apr 2022, 23:34
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Tue, 19 Apr 2022, 22:08
Miller got arrested AGAIN.
https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2022/04/19/ezra-miller-actor-who-played-flash-arrested-again-hawaii-island/
I don't expect Warner Bros Discovery will tolerate this. I believe a recast is imminent.
What a mess.
Do you mean replacing Miller through the entire movie? Because I truly don't see how that's possible, unless the idea is to either scrap the movie or shoot it all over again. Both of those would cost a fortune.
If you mean replacing Miller in future films... if I'm being honest, I don't see a way around that anymore. The guy's a liability. The last thing WBD needs right now is this kind of toxic personality so closely intertwined with what's meant to be a hugely important tentpole.
I don't see The Flash staying as it is if there are even more ugly details surrounding Miller. There's a pattern of increasingly violent behaviour to the point it's becoming criminal. And yes, as it's already pointed out, there is a repeated pattern of violence against women now. How does one promote a superhero film if the lead actor is gaining such notoriety in real life?
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 19 Apr 2022, 23:34
Usually, a new CEO makes one big move in his first 60 days. He starts a new program or cancels one. He announces layoffs or a hiring spree. He does something BIG to make his mark. So, what if Zaslav's One Big Move is to fire Miller? It's a no-brainer that would send a powerful message. Miller already had a target on his back. But now, matters are worse.
Since you keep an eye on Midnight's Edge, I assume you've already seen this video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7k8_Gchjn4
It now makes sense why Flash and Aquaman 2 suddenly got delayed till next year. Had the WBD merger happened a couple of years ago, it's very likely Miller and Heard would've been fired. Now thanks to the f***ery by the outgoing regime, Zaslav and co have to carry this heavy PR burden. A very difficult situation to be in.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sun, 24 Apr 2022, 04:14Zaslav and co have to carry this heavy PR burden. A very difficult situation to be in.
It is a complicated situation, no doubts there.
If Zaslav cans either movie (or both), odds are he'll have to answer to the board. And he might not dig what they have to tell him. But at the same time, Heard and Miller are toxic names now.
At this point, it might be in everybody's best interests to just can The Flash entirely, chalk it up to bad luck and lessons learned, move in a different direction and issue some public statement about an intolerance for abusers/criminals/violence/whatever. WBD's board might not be happy about that. But who in his right mind wants a weirdo with confirmed incidents of violent acts toward women in today's climate?
There is another possibility. It's a slim chance. But there MIGHT be an opportunity to reimagine The Flash as a solo Keaton Batman film. Cut everything that isn't Keaton out and build a script around Keaton's existing scenes.
I would imagine there would be MASSIVE contractual complications with doing that. Not to mention logistical and financial challenges. But salvaging Keaton's work might be the only way to make lemonade out of this lemon.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 24 Apr 2022, 04:38
There is another possibility. It's a slim chance. But there MIGHT be an opportunity to reimagine The Flash as a solo Keaton Batman film. Cut everything that isn't Keaton out and build a script around Keaton's existing scenes.
I would imagine there would be MASSIVE contractual complications with doing that. Not to mention logistical and financial challenges. But salvaging Keaton's work might be the only way to make lemonade out of this lemon.
Let's face it, anything WBD does now will be costly. I personally don't see how retrofitting Flash into a new Keaton Batman movie is going to be less expensive than reshooting Miller's scenes with a new actor. But at the same time, reshooting Miller out of the film is still going to be expensive and just as difficult. If we were talking about a supporting actor who was causing these problems then it would've been easier to replace them; as Zack Snyder did for Army of the Dead, when he replaced Chris D'Elia with Tig Notaro because of sexual misconduct allegations made against D'Elia. Unfortunately, Miller is the star lead.
If there is a silver lining to all of this, it makes Emmerich and co look bad for continuously vouching for somebody who has serious problems.
The entire plot has leaked. There are two leaks. The second version floating around is trying to embellish what is in the first, but it has been called a fake. The first however has been all but confirmed. My rendition of is below in white for those of you trying to avoid spoilers.
Motivated by security footage that fails to exonerate Henry Allen in court, Barry goes back in time to save Nora from a home invasion. On the way back he is knocked out of the speed force by a black clad speed force warrior and ends up in an alternate 2013 with another Barry where his parents are alive.
The events of Man of Steel play out. YOU ARE NOT ALONE. Barry freaks because it turns out there was never a Justice League. Alt Barry informs him that there was once however, a Batman at least.
They go to visit Bruce Wayne, who is 'crazy.' He has long hair and is kinda jacked up because Gotham City is now the safest place on Earth. (Maybe the Bat Drone rumor from a couple of years ago has something to do with it?)
Bruce explains the Multiverse and describes time as a fulcrum, so changes impact events in both directions. You can have universes with all kinds of combinations of things but some certain points always seem to happen.
Bruce doesn't want to help, but Barry gets into the Batcave and uses the bat computer to uncover a backdoor connection into NASA to locate where he thinks a Kryptonian pod was found. The alien is being held in Siberia. The Barries Allen and Bruce go, using a new version of the Batwing.
At the Siberian base, they find not Kent but Kara, underpowered and in captivity, After they get her out she claims to be Kal-El's cousin and was sent after him, but their pods were separated and she doesn't know where he is.
Keaton armors up in a BvS mech suit that has a Burton aesthetic and they recreate the accident that created the Flash on Alt Barry, who is getting very chummy with Kara. A bond forms.
The quartet engage Zod in a desert, who reveals he found Kal's pod and murdered him as an infant. They learned the codex was hidden away with Kara.
They fight. Extremely brutal deaths for Kara and Batman. Kara gets the neck snap.
The Barries go back in time to try and save them, but they keep finding new ways to die again. Barry thinks this is one of those fixed points that Bruce described, but Alt Barry becomes obsessed with saving Supergirl, getting more and more injured as he keeps going back in time and fighting the Kryptonians.
Barry tries to convince Alt Barry that sometimes you have to let go.
A future version of Alt Barry intercedes. It turns out he is the black clad speedster and he was trying to kill Barry. He's been doing this for many many years, trying different permutations, seeing universes collapse as he tries to save them. In the visual representation of the speed force we see Christopher Reeve, Adam West, and Lynda Carter.
But Future Evil (Black) Flash has realized that the common thread is Barry: if he dies, things can change. Black Flash tries to stab him but Alt Barry sacrifices himself. This causes a paradox and Reverse-Flash vanishes as Alt Barry dies in Barry's arms.
To fix the damage, Barry undoes the time change he'd made to save his mom, but uses the 'can of tomatoes' maneuver to make it so that his dad's face is clearly seen so that, in the present at least, Henry is spared.
Outside the court house, Bruce arrives but it isn't Affleck but Keaton. Barry is confused, sees a bus drive by with Wonder Woman's image on it. Supergirl flies down next to them. (One rumor is that they retain some memory of their dystopian selves) Keaton says "Ready to get to work?" and gives Barry the ring.
Affleck has two scenes: one as Batman during an action scene, then one as Bruce where he advises Barry not to change the past because our pain makes us who we are.
Second scene is Aquaman being drunk and Barry telling him about the old universe and Aquaman getting confused that Supergirl used to be a man.
2nd post credit scene is Barry at his apartment and the screens in his place start glitching. Affleck shows up and say "Barry I don't know if you'll able to see this but if you do, come and find us."
At the risk of sounding too much like someone else, my enthusiasm for this thing is waning. I was hoping certain plot stuff concerning MOS was not true. But it's looking more and more likely all the time.
This is simply not acceptable to me.
WB has two animals in their employ, one Ezra Miller and one Amber Turd. It seems like they're sticking by Turd, which will make Aquaman 2's box office more interesting viewing than the movie itself.
But what of Miller? Do they play the mental health card or part ways? I'm not sure yet – that will have to play out. They've bought time with the delay, but a release day will come. Too much has been already spent and is in the pipeline to pull the cord now. In 2023 the Ezra situation will still have hijacked the film, making it feel something like a posthumous performance.
He's not a bit player; he's the title character. Which means prominently marketing a disgraced actor who the informed viewer does not like, who is either sacked or should have been. That's the cloud hanging over everything regardless of how one feels about the plot points.
As for the new suit, it's less believable Keaton kept the Returns design for three decades, considering he kept the B89's for about three years. The general look is there, and communicates it's this particular incarnation of Batman. It's not my favorite but I don't hate it. I'm okay with the change.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon, 25 Apr 2022, 17:11
At the risk of sounding too much like someone else, my enthusiasm for this thing is waning. I was hoping certain plot stuff was not true. But it's looking more and more likely all the time.
This is simply not acceptable to me.
Hey, now you know how it feels.
There are a few details in the rumoured leaks I'm admittedly keen about, but the rest leaves a lot to be desired. Totally agree with you about all things Superman/MOS too.
Not great. But we'll have to see what happens next in the Miller debacle before we complain about the plot points any further.
Flash trailer debut at cinema con.
Focus of the trailer was Barry trying to talk Keaton into joining him. Keaton has a batcycle and apparently a bunch of new suits. There are babmobile shots and the trailer ends with Keaton answering Barry with "Ya want to get nuts? Alright let's get nuts." Zod is the threat.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Mon, 25 Apr 2022, 15:21
The entire plot has leaked. There are two leaks. The second version floating around is trying to embellish what is in the first, but it has been called a fake. The first however has been all but confirmed. My rendition of is below in white for those of you trying to avoid spoilers.
I've been digesting these details.
I'm feeling perhaps Burton Batman isn't mad in the traditional sense, but more self-satisfied with the results of the work he can now do from the comfort of his own home. Meaning he has let himself go with his appearance, namely his hair.
Controlling drones would still allow a hands on role rather than the romantically ignorant idea legislation such as the Harvey Dent Act would cancel out crime for a lengthy duration of time. I think this section of the film has potential, especially with the Wayne Manor and batcave locations providing atmosphere and Easter egg cameos.
My issue is where that momentum leads. We see the Burton Batman suit up only to fly to his death, which we apparently witness in a variety of different brutal ways. Is that something to get excited about?
Based on this outline it seems Batman does not escape his fate like he should, nor does Barry manage to rescue him. The next time we see him he returns by default as a variant is made which contains past memories.
I'm interested to see Keaton, but overall, and on paper, I don't think it exactly seems to be a glorious return. As for the Superman component, the S78 and B89 comics alluded that both universes co-existed. I don't see how that can be the case according to the leaks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3wusrkPZuI
Mentions what the (a few) post above mentions and confirm long Hair bruce
Also
Thinking of a Crime Free gotham, I hope we will see a bit of that. It somthing that seemed a little too Justice Lord-ish, but thinking how much much Gotham Changed from 89-Returns (much cleaner, money came back to the city) in the undisclosed amount (3 years if we're following real time) it does seem like if there was a Batman that could clean up Gotham, it would be Keatons (even if this may not be 100% Burtons Batman). Still not sure how I feel about the long hair idea. I always imagined Keatons Bruce Wayne becoming alot like his Batman Beyond counterpart, perhaps he his, but I guess a part of it is this Bruce not having an Alfred anymore and just let himself go/no need to really care anymore.
I hope we get the trailer soon, though I could see it getting delayed until the news cools a bit.
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Wed, 27 Apr 2022, 10:12
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3wusrkPZuI
He says the "Let's get nuts" line? I thought he might. That's Keaton's second most iconic piece of bat-dialogue after "I'm Batman." It's been referenced quite a bit in pop culture.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTY836hhY7o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTKufE25l2U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuP_6R8t8i8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFq7C0lmS-A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1yd5Ob67tc
At 1:42.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbZdhl5NI6Y
(https://i.postimg.cc/fL62sNKz/nuts.png)
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 27 Apr 2022, 11:58
He says the "Let's get nuts" line? I thought he might. That's Keaton's second most iconic piece of bat-dialogue after "I'm Batman." It's been referenced quite a bit in pop culture.
True.
Sounds like the depiction they were going for with Keaton's variant Batman, is something of a reclusive gatekeeper of Gotham, with a openly eccentric behavior pattern dialed up considerably from what we saw with Burton's Batman. Probably done so to achieve a comical response/reaction with Ezra's Flash's quips and sarcasm that are no doubt going to be ever present in this .....
I'm hearing that they shaved some years off Keaton for the trailer.
Bellow is a more detailed description of the trailer:
Barry Allen fidgets in a line.
He's at work.
Flash travels back outside his childhood home.
In his childhood room, Blue lightning flickers around Barry.
He looks at photos of his mom and dad and kid Barry.
'Time has a pattern. It can help deliver certain events to certain people... drawn to each other like magnets... '
At Wayne Manor, we see someone with shoulder length white hair from behind.
He opens a secret door to reveal seven Batsuits stood together.
Elsewhere, Flash slows down time and races up the side of a building.
Batfleck rides a Bat bike in a car chase with police – it's daytime.
Michael Shannon appears as Zod.
Supergirl's costume looks similar to Henry Cavill's.
An unmasked Keaton is dressed as Batman, and says 'You want to get nuts? Let's get nuts.'
He says this to Barry, alternate Barry, and Supergirl.
Title card: THE FLASH.
Keaton, who now has shorter hair, has an upgraded version of the 89 Batsuit with a bold yellow emblem."
I wonder when we'll see this trailer hit the internet. Watched ZSJL today and just the thought of Affleck and Keaton sharing a film
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Fri, 29 Apr 2022, 21:07
At Wayne Manor, we see someone with shoulder length white hair from behind.
I'm thinking they've merged Superman and Batman's roles from Kingdom Come. Superman had long hair and was withdrawn from society, while Batman was controlling drones from home. Important to note this is
the Burton Batman. That's the incarnation Barry first meets when he starts his interference. High probability the variant would only appear at the end of the film.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Fri, 29 Apr 2022, 21:07
He opens a secret door to reveal seven Batsuits stood together.
This is the type of thing I wanted to see - references to unseen adventures. The B89 comic depicted a Schumacher inspired suit, so it will be interesting to see if something similar to that is included. I believe there's also reference to a Batcycle appearing, and I'm all for using the comic's aesthetic.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Fri, 29 Apr 2022, 21:07
An unmasked Keaton is dressed as Batman, and says 'You want to get nuts? Let's get nuts.'
This and "I'm Batman" remain the most iconic pieces of dialogue from Batman in Batman films, and do define what Keaton is all about. If I had to add another I'd include "things change."
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Sat, 30 Apr 2022, 04:55
Watched ZSJL today and just the thought of Affleck and Keaton sharing a film
I really like what Pattinson did with the role and I'm eager to see how his character develops. But so far, Keaton and Affleck remain my top two from the 1989-2022 era. They're the biggest hook with The Flash, because my interest in the other DCEU films is non existent.
The Flash had a test screening yesterday. It was a winner.
The rumor is that WB is trying to get picture lock sooner so that The Flash moves up the VFX cue because they are anxious to get it out as they know they have a hit.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Wed, 11 May 2022, 17:18
The Flash had a test screening yesterday. It was a winner.
The rumor is that WB is trying to get picture lock sooner so that The Flash moves up the VFX cue because they are anxious to get it out as they know they have a hit.
I sure hope it has a chance to move up its release to next spring, perhaps
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Wed, 11 May 2022, 17:18
The Flash had a test screening yesterday. It was a winner.
The rumor is that WB is trying to get picture lock sooner so that The Flash moves up the VFX cue because they are anxious to get it out as they know they have a hit.
I don't find test screenings to be reliable at all. The so-called positive reactions came out as soon as The Flash News Twitter account denied there was a screening that took place when some alleged scooper who goes by the name MyTimeToShine claimed the reactions were negative, but now suddenly there was a screening. The supposed scooper could be trolling for all I know, but I still find the timing to be dubious.
Besides, if any the leaked rumoured plot details are true, I don't think it's going to win a lot of people over. Even if it retains one universe while creating another, I can't see a lot of Superman or Keaton Batman fans getting thrilled if any of those leaked details are true and are exactly bad as they sound. Plus, how many times have we seen initial positive reactions to other movies, and then the consensus turn out negative once they get released i.e. Josstice League and WW84?
Meanwhile, WBD may seem to stick with Ezra Miller for this movie, but they will be hoping Ezra Miller stays out of trouble for a full year.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfK6RRzwYF0
Some people out there might think this is funny, but I don't. There's nothing funny about this at all.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Fri, 13 May 2022, 02:44
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Wed, 11 May 2022, 17:18
The Flash had a test screening yesterday. It was a winner.
The rumor is that WB is trying to get picture lock sooner so that The Flash moves up the VFX cue because they are anxious to get it out as they know they have a hit.
I don't find test screenings to be reliable at all. The so-called positive reactions came out as soon as The Flash News Twitter account denied there was a screening that took place when some alleged scooper who goes by the name MyTimeToShine claimed the reactions were negative, but now suddenly there was a screening. The supposed scooper could be trolling for all I know, but I still find the timing to be dubious.
Besides, if any the leaked rumoured plot details are true, I don't think it's going to win a lot of people over. Even if it retains one universe while creating another, I can't see a lot of Superman or Keaton Batman fans getting thrilled if any of those leaked details are true and are exactly bad as they sound. Plus, how many times have we seen initial positive reactions to other movies, and then the consensus turn out negative once they get released i.e. Josstice League and WW84?
Meanwhile, WBD may seem to stick with Ezra Miller for this movie, but they will be hoping Ezra Miller stays out of trouble for a full year.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfK6RRzwYF0
Some people out there might think this is funny, but I don't. There's nothing funny about this at all.
Here is something that may interest you, https://www.primetimer.com/item/The-Oscars-controversial-Fan-Favorite-and-Cheer-Moment-awards-may-have-been-rigged-by-bots-wMSzKW
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Wed, 11 May 2022, 17:18
The Flash had a test screening yesterday. It was a winner.
The rumor is that WB is trying to get picture lock sooner so that The Flash moves up the VFX cue because they are anxious to get it out as they know they have a hit.
I'm hoping it's good, because I'm a Flash fan and it's Keaton's comeback. I don't want this to fail, so I can just hope for the best.
Quote from: DocLathropBrown on Wed, 11 May 2022, 21:28
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Wed, 11 May 2022, 17:18
The Flash had a test screening yesterday. It was a winner.
The rumor is that WB is trying to get picture lock sooner so that The Flash moves up the VFX cue because they are anxious to get it out as they know they have a hit.
I sure hope it has a chance to move up its release to next spring, perhaps
I'd support that. A release day will come, whether it's 12 days, 12 months or 12 years from now. The undercurrent of Miller's antics will still be there, even if he manages to hold himself together for the period of time before the premiere. I'm here for Keaton and not Miller. His presence is enough to justify the price of admission for me, given it's 30 odd years in the making.
My enthusiasm for this movie has cooled almost to the point of freezing. WBD is embracing the "multiverse" thing. But like the Arrowverse, they're getting it wrong.
When I was coming up as a comic book fan, I got into Pre-Crisis comics late in my teens. I savored the imagination and vision that the Pre-Crisis comics offered. The best example of that is probably the Pre-Crisis multiverse.
There were dozens, if not hundreds, of alternate Earths. And what made the multiverse concept cool was how different they all were from each other. Earth 1, Earth 2, Earth 3, Earth S, Earth Prime, Earth X, etc., they were RADICALLY different from each other. The characters and story possibilities of Earth 2, for example, were not fungible commodities. They couldn't be arbitrarily dropped in anywhere else without missing a beat.
The direction that live action DC seems to be going is to assuming that all previous incarnations of DC heroes in live action media are part of "the multiverse". The problem with that is the level of consistency in one live action film compared to another.
Keaton Batman and Affleck Batman are good examples of what I mean. What are the differences between them REALLY? They're both Bruce Wayne, they both feature Bruce putting on a bat outfit and fighting bad guys, etc. Sure, the tone and style of the two Batmen on film are pretty different. But aside from that, there's little to distinguish one version of the character from the other. In all the ways that count, they're the same character doing the same stuff. They're not all that different from each other.
In other words, they wouldn't pass muster in the old DC multiverse in comics. They're simply not different enough from each other to justify both of them existing.
Presumably, Reeve's Superman, Cain's Superman, Routh's Superman, etc., all fit into the multiverse in some way or another too, despite the lack of clear and obvious differences between them as well.
Compare that to Earth 1 Batman and Earth 2 Batman in Pre-Crisis comics. E2 Batman had very different life experiences from his E1 counterpart, E2 Batman was much older than E1 Batman, E2 Batman wasn't as grim and dark (ultimately), he kept his distance from the Justice Society more than E1 Batman kept his distance from the Justice League, you could argue that E2 Batman didn't completely trust the Justice Society, E2 Batman got married and had children, etc. They're not swappable characters. They're very different from one another.
THAT is a true multiverse concept.
And that sort of mentality has been utterly lacking in the "multiverse" ideas and concepts we've seen thus far in live action DC.
Ezra Miller is now being accused of grooming and brainwashing a couple's daughter, and have requested a protective order against him.
https://au.news.yahoo.com/ezra-miller-protective-order-cult-daughter-220721126.html
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Thu, 9 Jun 2022, 03:05
Ezra Miller is now being accused of grooming and brainwashing a couple's daughter, and have requested a protective order against him.
https://au.news.yahoo.com/ezra-miller-protective-order-cult-daughter-220721126.html
"Let's give that man a five-picture deal!"
Honestly, with all this business involving Ezra Miller and Amber Heard, it's taking a LOT for me to not hold it against Zack Snyder that he hired them. This is just NOT a good look. At all.
Unless there is proof that Zack Snyder was aware of Ezra Miller and Amber Heard's true colours when they were first announced as Flash and Mera and still looked the other way, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt. When Miller filmed that Knightmare scene in ZSJL, all we knew at the time was the choking incident. Not this ongoing pattern we're seeing now.
Besides, from what I heard, Johnny Depp had a lot of influence on his ex-wife getting the Mera role, so it's possible that Snyder didn't have that much clout in that case.
But going forward, Snyder shouldn't work with those actors anymore, whatever he does next. The more I read about these people, the more I'm turned off by their behaviour.
If anything, it doesn't reflect well on Emmerich and co for sticking with these actors. They knew very well they had problems, if the rumours of Miller's on-set meltdowns on the set of Flash are true, and they fired Depp based on Heard's allegations from Fantastic Beasts while sticking by Heard.
Just when you think the Ezra stuff couldn't get any worse.....
???
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 9 Jun 2022, 03:14
"Let's give that man a five-picture deal!"
Honestly, with all this business involving Ezra Miller and Amber Heard, it's taking a LOT for me to not hold it against Zack Snyder that he hired them. This is just NOT a good look. At all.
I always assumed that the studio foisted Miller on Snyder. WB has been pushing Miller as one of their big stars for the past few years, giving him prominent roles in both the DCEU and Fantastic Beasts franchises. Snyder typically casts masculine alpha males as his leading men, and Miller is the complete antithesis of that. I'm sure Zack had a hand in the casting of Cavill, Affleck, Momoa and Fisher, but with Miller I feel like that was a studio decision. But I could be wrong.
At any rate, it's looking more and more likely that WB will have to act on the Miller situation. The controversy is unlikely to blow over, and at this point it might be best to just reshoot his scenes with another actor. I know that'll entail remaking a large chunk of the movie. But what's the alternative?
The DCEU is dead in spirit even if it continues to limp onwards. What's done is done, and a full reboot ala The Batman and Joker universes makes more sense now. Anything else is a distortion of the original plan and holding on to false hope. Ezra Miller has been accused of assaulting people, and now supplying a minor with LSD, marijuana and alcohol. Amber Turd's name is literally mud after the embarrassing Depp court case, and should never work again. The Flash, if it ever gets released, creates a new timeline that firmly pushes Affleck and Cavill to the side. It's over and has been for a while.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 10 Jun 2022, 00:40
The DCEU is dead in spirit even if it continues to limp onwards. What's done is done, and a full reboot ala The Batman and Joker universes makes more sense now. Anything else is a distortion of the original plan and holding on to false hope. Ezra Miller has been accused of assaulting people, and now supplying a minor with LSD, marijuana and alcohol. Amber Turd's name is literally mud after the embarrassing Depp court case, and should never work again. The Flash, if it ever gets released, creates a new timeline that firmly pushes Affleck and Cavill to the side. It's over and has been for a while.
I hate that you're right. But you are.
And anyway, the reality is I got a lot more pleasure out of JOKER than I did even ZSJL.
Quote from: Travesty on Thu, 9 Jun 2022, 15:51
Just when you think the Ezra stuff couldn't get any worse.....
???
The girl has denied her parents' allegations, but if her parents are to be believed, Miller had been grooming her since she was twelve, so it's easy to imagine her getting brainwashed. But even if these allegations are false, it still doesn't dismiss Miller's other problems.
While it is possible some people could be trying to take advantage of the Miller situation for attention (such as that other girl on TikTok who accused Miller of wrongdoing a few months ago, but apparently failed to give specific details or reported to the police, for all we know), as I said, Miller has become too much of a liability. What happens if he gets arrested again? What happens if somebody else accuses him of grooming and physical assault, but backs it up with damning evidence? It's a screwed up situation.
In other news, there was a rumour going around that the new Aquaman movie had a test screening, and it still had Amber Heard in it. It's alleged WBD wanted to see if the general public cares about the circumstances surrounding her and Johnny Depp. If it's true, I think they're wasting time and they should replace her now. I can see the logic why they'd hesitate to spend even more money on replacing Miller when he's playing TWO roles in the same movie - especially on a production they've inherited from the outgoing Emmerich regime - but Heard reportedly has a much smaller screen time. Replacing should be a no brainer and cheaper than canning Miller.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu, 9 Jun 2022, 22:24But what's the alternative?
I've been thinking about this. Maybe my own biases are coming out here. But between Miller acting like a wackaloon and, y'know, some of the story developments all but confirmed to be happening in The Flash, at this point I think that the best bet may be just taking the L and dropping the movie onto HBO Max with minimal fanfare.
I just can't envision this movie doing well at the box office. Assaulting women, allegedly grooming young girls, I mean there's no way of washing the stink off the movie anymore.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Fri, 10 Jun 2022, 01:50The girl has denied her parents' allegations, but if her parents are to be believed, Miller had been grooming her since she was twelve, so it's easy to imagine her getting brainwashed.
Look, don't mistake me for an expert. But I think you're right. You're pretty much calling it. If she was brainwashed (or whatever), obviously she won't see a problem with Miller's behavior. There will be some kind of digital trail tho. Some kind of evidence (DM's, text messages, etc.) that show what Miller was actually up to. That and any possible, y'know,
physical misconduct that Miller may be guilty of will be what ultimately sends him up a creek.
Without going into too much detail, I know someone who went through something similar to this when she was a child. She believed for a long time that it was all her idea. It was only after years of therapy that she eventually saw the real pattern that was going on. So, similarly, Miller's alleged victim might simply be too messed up right now to see what actually went on.
Spending millions of dollars on a dead duck is illogical, therefore I don't endorse reshoots. The powers that be cast this animal in the first place and must now wear that shame like a crown of thorns. Keaton and other actors have already given their performance and shouldn't be forced to give it again. That tangled mess is what jaded Ben Affleck and helped push him away from the genre. Get this thing in cinemas, take what you can get and move on. WB would want to skip to Batgirl as soon as possible, but to get there they must first manoeuvre one large speed bump.
Quote from: Travesty on Thu, 9 Jun 2022, 15:51Just when you think the Ezra stuff couldn't get any worse.....
At this point, I'm just waiting for news to break that Miller was (somehow) the second gunman on the grassy knoll. The situation can't get much worse anymore.
Imagine being Miller's publicist. Now there's somebody who probably deserves combat pay.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 10 Jun 2022, 03:11
I've been thinking about this. Maybe my own biases are coming out here. But between Miller acting like a wackaloon and, y'know, some of the story developments all but confirmed to be happening in The Flash, at this point I think that the best bet may be just taking the L and dropping the movie onto HBO Max with minimal fanfare.
I just can't envision this movie doing well at the box office. Assaulting women, allegedly grooming young girls, I mean there's no way of washing the stink off the movie anymore.
That sounds like the most plausible scenario at this point. Cut their losses and just get it out there. It's a shame that this film is so important to the upcoming slate of DC movies. It's the one building block they can't remove without toppling the entire structure.
I suppose it might be possible to lessen (but not outright eradicate) the damage with some careful editing and a shift in marketing strategy. At the very least, they should reduce Miller's screen time as much as possible and shift the focus of the marketing onto Keaton's Batman. Tell the cast not to talk about Miller in interviews and quietly release the film on HBO Max. Maybe re-title it Flashpoint, Justice League: Flashpoint or even Batman: Flashpoint.
When you look back over the troubled history of the Flash movie's development, the numerous writers and directors who've quit the project, the exclusion of Ray Fisher's Cyborg, and now this controversy with Miller, it really does feel as though the entire project has been cursed since day one. The inevitable post-mortem analysis from Midnight's Edge should be amusing, but it's a pity Keaton's big return to the franchise after thirty years had to take the form of this particular film.
A month ago, it was claimed that Miller was involved in a music side project, but it fell apart and his associates accused him of posting their music on social media without their permission. They claimed that they have experienced his volatile behaviour because of a disagreement over a song. One of these people knew Ezra since they were teenagers, and says he isn't the same person he once knew and needs serious help.
If these guys are telling the truth then the song that they had an argument with Ezra over is quite telling:
Quote
At that meetup, [Oliver] Ignatius says things took a dark turn after he introduced a song he wrote about a female friend who was murdered by her husband. The track, he says, was an "attempt to examine patriarchal violence with grace" but upon listening to it, Miller reacted with an "aggressive temper tantrum."
"They were completely triggered by the song which totally freaked me out because basic feminism is a really hard line. If we don't agree that violence by a man against a woman isn't something worth speaking on, then we don't agree on much," Ignatius says. "Ezra's behavior throughout this exchange was atrocious, belligerent, threatening, and incredibly aggressive."
That night, Ignatius says he "politely quit" the project on moral grounds. And overnight, Miller leaked the unfinished raw music in its entirety, including songs the actor wasn't even a part of. Miller posted a link to a SoundCloud playlist with the songs in their Instagram bio under the pseudonym, "Negative Ghost Rider."
"What Ezra did was commit an ... extremely unethical and hurtful act," he says. "They stole from artists that have fewer resources than them but maybe have art that Ezra wants... The person I thought I knew was a much gentler soul than the person that we're seeing right now. It's been a very concerning journey." (A lawyer for Miller did not reply to a request for comment.)
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/ezra-miller-leak-music-1352982/
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 10 Jun 2022, 03:11
I've been thinking about this. Maybe my own biases are coming out here. But between Miller acting like a wackaloon and, y'know, some of the story developments all but confirmed to be happening in The Flash, at this point I think that the best bet may be just taking the L and dropping the movie onto HBO Max with minimal fanfare.
I just can't envision this movie doing well at the box office. Assaulting women, allegedly grooming young girls, I mean there's no way of washing the stink off the movie anymore.
I hope these grooming allegations are false. The physical attacks and death threats are already bad enough. If it's true that Miller is a predator, then he certainly needs to be locked up. Otherwise, he needs to undergo serious rehab and forget about acting indefinitely.
I've seen people saying this movie should be scrapped altogether, but I don't think that's possible. Whether we like it or not, too much time and money have been invested in producing this movie. Scrapping it doesn't just affect Miller, it would also affect Keaton and Sasha Calle because their deals are tied to this movie. So in that case, your suggestion it should go to streaming is the only logical bet.
Going forward however, WBD may have very different plans for DC as a franchise compared to whatever the hell the previous Emmerich regime were doing. At the moment, they have no choice but to inherit and release films that were produced before the merger was finalised, but don't be surprised if we see cancellations of projects that were greenlit by the old regime. For example, it was reported that DC Films and Hamada wanted to produce a Wonder Twins movie adaptation for HBO Max, but WBD canned the idea, and they allegedly were put off by the project's estimated budget was going to cost $75 million. Another example is there are rumours that the JJ Abrams Superman project might be in jeopardy because the film still hasn't progressed beyond the draft stage and WBD are frustrated that Abrams has produced little to nothing in the middle of his lucrative five-year contract.
I do wonder if WBD would've green light Flash, Batgirl, or even Black Adam if the merger happened a few years ago, and I do wonder if they would've approved Keaton's return. Because if the rumours of replacing Hamada with their own Kevin Feige-type guru and maintaining a more cohesive shared universe are true then that goes against the idea of Emmerich/Hamada agenda of allowing directors and stars to have complete control of their own self-contained universes, e.g. the Rock promoting his own Black Adam Universe and his movie introducing the JSA.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Fri, 10 Jun 2022, 18:31
I suppose it might be possible to lessen (but not outright eradicate) the damage with some careful editing and a shift in marketing strategy. At the very least, they should reduce Miller's screen time as much as possible and shift the focus of the marketing onto Keaton's Batman. Tell the cast not to talk about Miller in interviews and quietly release the film on HBO Max. Maybe re-title it Flashpoint, Justice League: Flashpoint or even Batman: Flashpoint.
When you look back over the troubled history of the Flash movie's development, the numerous writers and directors who've quit the project, the exclusion of Ray Fisher's Cyborg, and now this controversy with Miller, it really does feel as though the entire project has been cursed since day one. The inevitable post-mortem analysis from Midnight's Edge should be amusing, but it's a pity Keaton's big return to the franchise after thirty years had to take the form of this particular film.
I'm in two minds about this. Despite Ezra's conduct, part of me hopes tinkering doesn't happen because I'd still like to see the movie as it was intended. Otherwise we're still in a constant loop of changing the original intention of movies ala SS and JL, just for different reasons. They've got to get out of that habit. The Flash movie isn't cursed - it's the overall trajectory of the DCEU. It should have been completely abandoned once they made the decision to move away from pure Snyder continuity. He was the backbone of the arc, and without him everything else is meaningless.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Fri, 10 Jun 2022, 18:31
it's a pity Keaton's big return to the franchise after thirty years had to take the form of this particular film.
QFT.
With Ezra's reported shenanigans (I can easily believe the music side project story,
especially after that video of Mr. "They" losing his ish over being called "sir" by a cop), and everything else surrounding this film, it's a very real possibility that this film will wind up with egg on it's face upon release (whenever the hell that ends up being). Which is just a shame. Some of us never thought Michael Keaton returning as Batman would be a realistic possibility, but it happened, and rather than to simply sit back as a fan in anticipation for a trailer featuring footage of our boy back in the cowl again, we are left remaining all-too-cognizant of a film that has a history of being glaringly troubled, and you would think, actually jinxed.
So, yeah. It's very unbefitting.
Miller was reportedly missing at the protective order hearing the other day, and shared an outrageous meme on Instagram saying "You can't touch me, because I'm in another universe". He then later deleted his entire account.
If that's not bad enough, we now have this:
https://www.thedailybeast.com/12-year-old-granted-order-of-protection-against-ezra-miller
Jesus Christ.
The way things are shaping up with this movie, I just can't imagine ever paying money to watch it.
So, he's done, right?
Is there any way of coming back from this?
News media is really picking up the story now, which is going to amplify the damage. I question what anyone involved with BvS knew about Miller when he was first cast. Because if they knew things but thought them to be bogus or minimal, they've allowed this circus to drag out in the way it has. This is another level in terms of dumpster fires.
I was watching this video talking about the Ezra Miller saga, and it shows a clip by one of Miller's friends calling the accusations bogus and says it's all defamatory.
https://youtu.be/uGeZGVLc17c?t=127
If Miller is getting defamed, then he should be the one condemning these allegations and promising to press charges. Not have his friend doing the talking for him, and certainly not posting memes on Instagram. People are now taking that meme and the deletion of his account as a sign that he is on the run and taunting authorities. There are even concerns the 18 year old girl has gone missing with him because nobody seems to know where she is either.
Miller was already in trouble before these grooming allegations came to light, and his antics are doing him no favours.
Despite all the PR problems at the moment, DC have released the first issue front cover of the prequel tie-in comics. Apparently, this was drawn by Andy Muschietti himself.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVd9ceqWYAA43cm?format=jpg)
Even if you ignore everything else that's going on with Miller for a moment, this is a really childish front cover. Does this mean the movie has Barry changing into his Flash costume while he's naked in broad daylight at some point?
Anyway, the father who came out with the grooming allegations has condemned this cover and the movie:
Quote
#TrashTheFlash Ezra Miller is the subject of 2 protection orders (1 involving a minor & the other relating to the violence & drugging of an 18yr old) + ongoing investigations & @warnerbros et al decide this naked depiction of the ezra flash is a good move ? #TrashTheFlash
https://twitter.com/ChaseIronEyes/status/1537921514145665024?cxt=HHwWgMCq8YDe5dcqAAAA
While on the subject, the man's daughter Tokata Iron Eyes uploaded a video last week denying the allegations. She may appear to be well-spoken for her age, but is she getting coached? Judge for yourself.
https://youtu.be/VILYmCBfaXc
An absolute sh*t show.
I've read that Flash cover has now been pulled by DC.
Quote from: Travesty on Thu, 16 Jun 2022, 20:14
So, he's done, right?
I'm reading rumours that Miller's career as the Flash is all but confirmed to be over, regardless if these grooming allegations are true or false. This latest video by Midnight's Edge analyses what the options are, in terms of what to do with the movie.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3SG242-aHA
Quote from: Travesty on Thu, 16 Jun 2022, 20:14
Is there any way of coming back from this?
I think thecolorsblend is spot on when he says this movie will likely go straight to HBO Max. There's no point in spending money on promotion and marketing if the lead actor is at the center of so much controversy and the movie's box office potential is just about lost.
I'm very curious about how this will affect Keaton's Batman. ME did a good job in breaking down the ramifications of how Flash affects Batgirl, but one little detail they neglected to mention was the rumour of Keaton's Batman appearing in the new Aquaman, as it was claimed by some scoopers who saw a test screening. If this is true, this would mean Keaton's comeback would result in three appearances: The Flash, Batgirl and Aquaman. All of these movies were supposed to come out between November and December this year, in that order.
But now we have this major shake-up with the delays, and the new dates have pulled these movies out of sequence. At the time of writing, Aquaman 2 is currently scheduled to come out in March next year, and Flash is scheduled for next June. Meanwhile, the Batgirl directors are now saying they don't know if their movie will get released before or after The Flash.
It makes no sense if Keaton's return occurs in anything before Flash, as it was intended. So where exactly does he fit in all this? I've even heard rumours that WBD doesn't even want this Flash timeline, so if that's true, do they just dump the movie on HBO Max and forget about it without a fuss? Will they continue having Keaton's Batman in Aquaman 2 and Batgirl, or remove his scenes if they're not following that Flash continuity? And if they do that, will they amend his deal so he can appear in something else, say, Batman Beyond?
I do see one final alternative. It'll offer a permanent way out of this whole mess. But it's risky, it's very expensive for an already leveraged company and it's guaranteed to upset possibly multiple portions of the fanbase. But if it works, it will be a game-changer of historical proportions.
Scorched. Earth. Reboot.
Delete EVERYTHING to do with the DCEU. Affleck as Batman, Gadot as Wonder Woman, Cavill as Superman, etc. All due respect to them, blah blah blah, delete it all. Also delete the as-yet unreleased DCEU films, including Flash, Batgirl, etc.
EVERYTHING. GONE.
Now, "good business sense" says keep the stuff that works, eject the stuff that doesn't. But no. That approach has already been tried multiple times. It has never worked.
Launch a new cinematic universe that is unencumbered by anything else, wholly separate from everything else. Pick a character, any character and build it up from there. You want to compete with Marvel? Then follow Marvel's method. Start small and get big.
Launch with the most popular non-Batman character. Honestly, I think a Green Lantern character might be the best bet here. Hal Jordan, Guy Gardner, John Stewart, pick one of them. Then introduce another character. The Flash is as good as anyone (unless the Miller stink now covers the character entirely). But for variety's sake, launch with Wally West and retroactively establish Barry as Wally's speedster Godfather. Invent some plausible story reason for Barry to not be around.
Considering goings on with the Reevesverse, I think there's mojo to the idea of using Green Arrow as a surrogate for Batman in this new DC universe sort of like how the Arrowverse did basically the same thing. I say let Pattinson have his own space. Keaton, Affleck, everyone else is GONE.
Introduce Superman, a new Wonder Woman and other characters too.
This means eating the cost of Aquaman 2, Miller's Flash and this Batgirl monstrosity. They'll be tossed into a hole and never released. The DCEU is dead. Bury it. Consider this mercy.
There are MANY complications with this approach. Approximately half a billion (or more) complications, in fact. Called dollars. That's a hell of a lot of sunk cost for a company that's already this deep in the red.
But what it comes down to is this: How badly do you want to get out of this mess? Badly enough to build a proper universe from the ground up? Because I've come to believe that's what it'll take. There is no way to salvage the DCEU at this point. Even if you bring Snyder back, he'll be hemmed in by the stuff he had nothing to do with.
So, just scrape everything off and start anew. Most importantly, ONE PRODUCER (or one executive or one consultant or one whatever tf) controls the new DC universe. This person will not be forced to do some idiotic "multiverse" thing. Won't be forced to do anything, actually. Give him/her absolute creative freedom to build a cinematic universe on their own terms.
It doesn't take a genius to guess that the WBD board will hate this idea. Zaslav will have to fight lamf to make this happen. The board will obviously want to recoup what they can from Aquaman 2, Miller's Flash and this Batgirl monstrosity.
But while that looks attractive, it's still the road to defeat. You're mitigating your losses rather than building a solid foundation. Zaslav needs to take the long view on this. If you want to compete with Marvel, then you need something clean and immaculate unfettered by competing (and incompatible) visions from Snyder, Whedon, Jenkins, Wan, Muschietti, etc., not to mention meddling executives who don't know wtf they're doing.
Speaking of meddling executives, if we lived in a fair, sane and just universe, Geoff Johns would've been summarily terminated and then sued into absolute oblivion for what he did. If it was me, I wouldn't rest until Johns had declared bankruptcy, suffered a nervous breakdown, been committed to a mental institution and made into a ward of the state. An example needed to be made of Johns for everybody else to learn from. "If you challenge the throne, this could be you. Think hard about what you do next. Decide now where your loyalties lie."
And admittedly, there's a VERY good chance that this plan will fail. But if this plan fails, then it's not like Aquaman 2, Miller's Flash and this Batgirl monstrosity have a snowball's chance in hell of working either. The present course is untenable. But a Page 1 reboot is just crazy enough to work.
And IF this plan works, WBD will put the fear of God into Marvel Studios while also giving the public a viable alternative. They'll finally prove to the world (and themselves) that they have characters just as beloved as Marvel's. Zaslav will be vilified by the WBD board today and orally gratified by them tomorrow.
Crazy although it seems, a scorched earth reboot is the only viable option on the table anymore.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 19 Jun 2022, 06:46
Speaking of meddling executives, if we lived in a fair, sane and just universe, Geoff Johns would've been summarily terminated and then sued into absolute oblivion for what he did. If it was me, I wouldn't rest until Johns had declared bankruptcy, suffered a nervous breakdown, been committed to a mental institution and made into a ward of the state. An example needed to be made of Johns for everybody else to learn from. "If you challenge the throne, this could be you. Think hard about what you do next. Decide now where your loyalties lie."
Geoff Johns is an asshole, that's true, but let's not overlook the fact he wouldn't have been able to cause damage had it not been for scumbag execs like Kevin Tsujihara and Toby Emmerich. They enabled him, and they supported him. They are just as responsible for destroying the DCEU as much as Johns. As a matter of fact, Johns still has a producer credit for the next Shazam, last I checked. That's how protected he was under Emmerich.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 19 Jun 2022, 06:46
Crazy although it seems, a scorched earth reboot is the only viable option on the table anymore.
I disagree. Putting my bias towards all things Snyderverse and Keaton aside for a moment, I can't see this idea being feasible. WBD inherited a mess but they are in this way too deep to suddenly start over from scratch.
Whether we like it or not, too much money has been invested in several movies that are either in post-production, awaiting release, or in the middle of filming. Aquaman 2, Flash and Batgirl aren't the only movies on the horizon, Black Adam and the Shazam sequel are coming out later this year, and I just read that the Blue Beetle movie is currently filming. If you suddenly scrap all of those movies in favour of rebooting the whole DC universe, I'd imagine a lot of compensation would have to be paid to every production company as well as actors who would have signed on multi-picture deals, like Keaton. Unless you're suggesting Black Adam becomes the first film in a newly rebooted DC shared universe, I can't imagine the Rock accepting the news that his movie is getting scrapped right at the last minute. But even if BA were to become the start of a newly rebooted universe, the film is connected to Shazam, so it complicates things.
As you already mentioned, there are a lot of complications in taking such a dramatic approach. I know WBD owns the DC brand, but I wonder if legalities would be a possibility over the loss of income for many producers and actors? I can only imagine reading headlines that the sequel to the highly profitable Aquaman movie suddenly getting canceled would generate a lot of negative PR, regardless if Amber Heard remains as Mera or not. Besides, David Zaslav gave a political statement promising to repair relationships with creatives, and breaking that promise by canceling movies that are already in the can would be damaging to WBD's reputation. And I say this without any care or love for any of these new DC movies.
The whole idea of the DCEU ceased to exist once Josstice L came out. Some movies and TV shows that have come out since are very loosely connected, at best, while the vast majority are completely disconnected from each other. We only had a brief moment of a real shared universe when ZSJL came out last year, but Emmerich and co did their best to burn bridges.
If the outgoing regime aka Warner Butchers really wanted to get away from the Snyderverse, it would've made much more sense to reboot everything four years ago. Back then, only Aquaman was in production. But as you know, people like Johns wanted to hijack and take credit for WW17's success and participate in developing Aquaman, so it was far more convenient to cherrypick some movies than going for the kill and reboot the whole franchise. Now the newly formed WBD have to carry this burden.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 19 Jun 2022, 06:46
Even if you bring Snyder back, he'll be hemmed in by the stuff he had nothing to do with.
Do you mean the controversies surrounding Heard and Miller? Because going by Snyder's recent history, he replaced Chris D'Elia with Tig Notaro in Army of the Dead without any hesitation once D'Elia got hit with sexual harassment allegations. If Snyder were to come back and finish his story arc, I've no doubt he'd easily replace Miller and Heard.
If that's not what you meant, and you were referring to the other disconnected DC movies, well, not many of them follow each other so I personally don't see the big deal. But for the sake of entertaining the thought of rebooting the DC universe in live-action, I remember some scoopers were speculating whether or not a Crisis film scenario might be planned somewhere down the line, because Snyder teased a shot of the Final Crisis TPB in a VERO post last year. That wouldn't be a bad idea, in theory. Allow the Snyderverse arc to continue and conclude, have all the other stuff happen at the same time, and then have a two-part Crisis event movie event to restart everything. Of course, the money to make this would probably be too hard to come by, wouldn't it?
He did keep Miller (if antics were known as mentioned a few posts back) and Amber for the nighmare scene in Justice League tho. I'm sure they're both gone now but WB did have problems getting rid of Amber (as the trial revealed) as they had to chip away her character. Miller I suppose had the same issue.
In terms of what to do, disolving the DCEU is quite feasable. I mean, most people dont really care about it and overall is marred with films like WW84 (tho I liked that) JW Justice League, Suicide Club etc. DC haters are having a feild day and it sucks.
I suppose they could do ZS Justice League but Flash was a BIG part of that and they can recast but it's still a mark on the film regardless and it depends on who knew what when and for how long. This really could go down bad for the brand, ala Singer (granted he was behind the camera).
They could re-film the flash, it has been done before (Spacy) but Miller is playing 2 (3?) different characters. It would be Back to the Future on steroids and if casted wrong could ruin the film (ala Back to the Future *Stoltz being the recast*). It plausable only because the film has apperently screened well. It's a risk and its WB so I'll let people think on that.
Or they could just release as is, recast later or just drop the character. I am really someone who will tend to not watch a film because of a certain actor is in it. I remeber people saying they wouldnt see X-Men Days of Future past because of singer and they ran an ad talking about how films are made by more than one person and not supporting it (if you were going to) is hurting everyone else for anothers actions. Then ofcourse there is just the issue of Miller is one of a Million in Hollywood. How many Weinsteins are still in the industry?
It's a fine line. It's like not not supporting one company because you dont like their CEO or founders idiology but then support another who stands for very much the same because you like the product they offer. It's a tough call and everyone has their own right to support or not support something. I'll just go with flow and see what ever comes out because most of all I'm here for Keaton and Afflack.
They have DC Black and that so far has been much more sucessful so in lots of ways that is their saving grace.
Speaking of, Keaton has been rather quiet on social media as of late, granted we have a new President so it may be why. But I do wonder what his thought are on this, given his stake in the DCEU now and just his overal world veiw.
Also....I just realized he filmed a scene with DCEU's Joker in a Marvel movie..so.... there's that lol
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sun, 19 Jun 2022, 13:48Whether we like it or not, too much money has been invested in several movies that are either in post-production, awaiting release, or in the middle of filming.
The sunk cost fallacy creates a lot of myopic thinking. The simple fact of the matter is that the whole "Let's keep the stuff that works" bs HAS NEVER WORKED.
It's been tried since 2017 with Whedon. We're now on our third iteration of a post-Snyder DCEU and the one constant has been disappointing box office. It has NEVER worked.
The relevant issue is that Miller's Flash movie is toxic. There's simply no good option on the table for it. It was always destined to upset Snyderverse fans. But with recent news bits about Miller, the movie will upset pretty much anybody with a sense of decency.
Zaslav has an opportunity here to drop the Flash movie into the trash can in a way that guarantees that the DC characters (WBD's supposedly most important franchise) can have a future.
There's no need to nuke the Reeves Batman or the Phillips JOKER. But at the same time, I just can't see a strong argument against a full scale reboot. Aside from the financial cost of doing so.
Still, the rewards far outweigh the risks. WBD can reach for the stars with a rebooted universe and they can stay mired in mediocrity with their current universe. A third choice isn't on the table.
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Sun, 19 Jun 2022, 15:21
In terms of what to do, disolving the DCEU is quite feasable. I mean, most people dont really care about it and overall is marred with films like WW84 (tho I liked that) JW Justice League, Suicide Club etc. DC haters are having a feild day and it sucks.
The DCEU should have been rebooted very early on, when they decided to change course. Sure, Snyder wasn't directing every film in the series, but the overall arc was going down his main line trajectory. Anything from the point he was banished isn't pure. It's as much of a distortion as The Flash movie's variant timeline. The reboot option should still be used, and if I were in charge it would be. But I can't see it happening. I now predict they'll slam The Flash on to HBO Max and put Batgirl in theatres, reversing the release model they initially proposed. With Black Adam, Shazam, Aquaman 2 and all these other movies still happening, pretending Ezra was the single problem - and now he's in the rear view mirror. Which is faulty thinking, because the founding pillars of the universe were blown apart, weaking the future and making it irrrelevant. Let's get real: Ezra has as much liklihood of appearing in another DCEU movie as Cavill, so what's the point continuing this sham?
So all the reports are that Ezra is completely dropped from WB and any future projects.
I mean, A "scorched earth reboot" doesn't sound so bad right now, especially since they're not using Cavil or Ezra.
If they don't do a full reboot, the best thing I can think of, is drop this movie entirely(don't even release it), film new scenes explaining Keaton's return in Batgirl, and move forward.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 19 Jun 2022, 21:42
The simple fact of the matter is that the whole "Let's keep the stuff that works" bs HAS NEVER WORKED.
It's been tried since 2017 with Whedon. We're now on our third iteration of a post-Snyder DCEU and the one constant has been disappointing box office. It has NEVER worked.
No matter how true that may be, I just cannot see the possibility of scrapping multiple films that are in post, or still filming. To do that, contracts would have to be terminated and compensation to all relevant parties would have to be paid. Like I said before, there might be legal issues involved too. Never mind scrapping one particular film, has there ever been a time when multiple tentpole films get canceled altogether? As much as I don't care for any of these new DC movies, such a dramatic overhaul would be a PR nightmare. I can see disgruntled directors and actors argue "why should we penalised because of the sins of one actor?". Unless you let somebody like the Rock have his own pocket universe with Black Adam as an exception, I can only imagine the war of words he'd have with the studio if you sweep the red carpet under his feet right at the last minute.
It really is a screwed up situation. If Flash was the only DC movie coming out and all of these other movies didn't progress further than the scripting stage, the argument of doing a full-on reboot for the entire universe would be a lot more realistic.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 19 Jun 2022, 21:42
The relevant issue is that Miller's Flash movie is toxic. There's simply no good option on the table for it. It was always destined to upset Snyderverse fans. But with recent news bits about Miller, the movie will upset pretty much anybody with a sense of decency.
I agree with you here. This Flash movie was not made in good faith and if Miller really is a grooming piece of sh*t, or God forbid, gets accused of something even worse, then throw it in the bin. I'm still a bit surprised he didn't get fired after he was arrested for a second time a couple of months ago, along with additional reports of violent behaviour.
Sometimes I wonder if Batgirl was made out of spite too. I'll never forget how those directors kept teasing the "real Batman" and posted pictures of Batfleck cowls and memes on social media, but then Keaton got cast. Not a knock on Keaton of course, he's one of the best. But that was rather sh*tty of them too trick people like that.
Meanwhile, Grant Morrison was interviewed by Rolling Stone some days ago, and spoke about the rejected script that he and Miller wrote for The Flash. He spoke about his experience with Miller.
Quote
And what was the deal with the ultimately unused Flash screenplay you wrote with Ezra?
Well, there had been a few versions, and as far as I remember, Ezra just wasn't quite happy with what they were getting at the time. And Ezra had a lot of ideas; they came to me with a book of ideas. And then we worked together. It really was just the two of us. They came over here to Scotland and hung out, and we wrote this thing. I really liked it. Warner Bros. only gave us two weeks! It was cruelty, you know. It was hardcore. We had to be like the Flash to get this thing done, and they were looking for something quite different. I got paid, and it was good fun. It didn't do the job they were looking for, which was to franchise things and set things up, and bring other characters in. It was a Flash story, so it wasn't where they wanted to go with multiverse and stuff. And that was the end of it.
...
You worked with Flash actor Ezra Miller, who is facing a series of ever-wilder accusations, from clashes with police in Hawaii to a family accusing him of grooming their child (which she denies). What do you make of their current situation?
I know they've had these problems. I haven't spoken to them for a while, and the last time I spoke was long, long before this. All I can say is that it's just not the person I know. I've heard stories just like everyone else. I just don't know. Ezra cut off contact from pretty much everyone for a while. It's not the person they were. They weren't aggressive in any way. I just thought Ezra was a super-intelligent kid with so many talents. So all I can say is that I didn't see that side in any way with them.
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/grant-morrison-ezra-miller-john-lennon-superman-1367662/
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Sun, 19 Jun 2022, 15:21
He did keep Miller (if antics were known as mentioned a few posts back) and Amber for the nighmare scene in Justice League tho.
I give Snyder the benefit of the doubt for a couple of reasons: it's likely he didn't really know their true colours and wasn't privy to their personal lives, and there was only so much time and money he was given to shoot that Knightmare scene. Even if he wanted to, recasting those roles in ZSJL was simply not possible.
In hindsight, had the Miller incidents and the Heard trial happened a few years ago, this could've given the Snyder cut's release a lot of problems.
I don't even want to think about it.
Quote from: Travesty on Mon, 20 Jun 2022, 14:09
If they don't do a full reboot, the best thing I can think of, is drop this movie entirely(don't even release it), film new scenes explaining Keaton's return in Batgirl, and move forward.
This situation is very much a case of 'I almost got away with it'. Apparently test screenings went well, and the studio was somewhat confident they had a good movie. But as Stan Lee said, "I guess one person really can make a difference." Add Jared Leto to the mix too. He was a weirdo on set, bringing in to question how that nonsense was allowed. Joaquin Phoenix didn't need to send a dead pig to the cast to get in to character.
Holy **** you can't make this stuff up!
QuoteEzra Miller reportedly housing mom and 3 young kids at farm with weed, guns 'lying around'
In what seems to be a weekly occurrence, Ezra Miller has been accused of more troublesome behavior. According to Rolling Stone, the actor has a mother and her three young children living with them where guns and drugs are rampant. The report comes on the heels of two separate restraining orders taken out by parents against The Flash star in the last month.
Miller, who is nonbinary and uses they/them pronouns, is reportedly hosting a 25-year-old mother and her children, aged one to five, at their 96-acre farm in Vermont. On one occasion, the 1-year-old allegedly found a loose bullet and put it in her mouth. Video footage reviewed by the publication "shows at least eight assault weapons, rifles, and handguns lying around the living room, with some weapons propped up next to a pile of stuffed animals."
The children's father participated for the story as did two anonymous sources. The two sources "confirmed seeing children there with their mother, describing a chaotic environment that is unsafe for children," according to RS. A rep for Miller has not responded to Yahoo Entertainment's request for comment.
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/ezra-miller-farm-kids-weed-guns-193546631.html
lol, is this going to end in a Waco situation?
Jesus CHRIST.
This spectacular downfall of Ezra Miller is right along the lines of someone like Aaron Hernandez. What a waste.
Now, Ezra hasn't killed anyone yet, but it's still early.
Everything about Chris Farley indicated he was doomed. He worshiped Belushi, who died age 33, was morbidly obese and a rampant user of cocaine and other drugs. People looked on knowingly but powerlessly, just waiting for the obvious to happen. This Miller situation has a similar smell. It keeps escalating. If Miller was hurting only himself I would have a degree of sympathy. But he's a clear and present danger to the public, which means I have none. It's a law and order issue meaning Miller should be walking in chains, consuming only bread and water.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 24 Jun 2022, 13:46
Everything about Chris Farley indicated he was doomed. He worshiped Belushi, who died age 33, was morbidly obese and a rampant user of cocaine and other drugs. People looked on knowingly but powerlessly, just waiting for the obvious to happen. This Miller situation has a similar smell. It keeps escalating. If Miller was hurting only himself I would have a degree of sympathy. But he's a clear and present danger to the public, which means I have none. It's a law and order issue meaning Miller should be walking in chains, consuming only bread and water.
Exactly. At this point, I think we're pretty far beyond the price of reshooting, sunk costs and all that. This is a criminal matter now. I shudder to think how many felonies Miller is facing at this point. Choke-slamming a pregnant woman is officially the least of what Miller has done.
Welcome to Hollyweird, Zaslav.
I miss the days when a celeb would simply have a meltdown and be found inside a hotel room passed out, or dead with a needle in their arm. Rather than going, you know, full Grand Theft Auto.
It's sad to think back to the start of the year, when I was still excited about seeing this movie. But now, after the postponed release and all the Miller stuff, I really couldn't care less. Maybe my enthusiasm will return at some point, but presently I have no interest in any DC-related films or TV shows except for The Batman II.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 24 Jun 2022, 14:36
Welcome to Hollyweird, Zaslav.
Judging by his Twitter page, he should fit right in. There seems to be a rule that all major Hollywood studios must henceforth be managed by sanctimonious political activists. It's as though they
want to lose money.
We need to keep smashing people like Miller and I'm hoping he is severely punished. He is responsible for his actions, but he is also a product of an out of control woke circus that needs to be shut down. I don't care what made up pronouns Miller uses and I won't be using them. Enough is enough now. Things need to be called out loudly, rather than going along with it because people are afraid to say anything. When a society reaches peak decadence and flaunts its deviancy it's time to work to overturn it all.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 24 Jun 2022, 00:54
Holy **** you can't make this stuff up!
QuoteEzra Miller reportedly housing mom and 3 young kids at farm with weed, guns 'lying around'
In what seems to be a weekly occurrence, Ezra Miller has been accused of more troublesome behavior. According to Rolling Stone, the actor has a mother and her three young children living with them where guns and drugs are rampant. The report comes on the heels of two separate restraining orders taken out by parents against The Flash star in the last month.
Miller, who is nonbinary and uses they/them pronouns, is reportedly hosting a 25-year-old mother and her children, aged one to five, at their 96-acre farm in Vermont. On one occasion, the 1-year-old allegedly found a loose bullet and put it in her mouth. Video footage reviewed by the publication "shows at least eight assault weapons, rifles, and handguns lying around the living room, with some weapons propped up next to a pile of stuffed animals."
The children's father participated for the story as did two anonymous sources. The two sources "confirmed seeing children there with their mother, describing a chaotic environment that is unsafe for children," according to RS. A rep for Miller has not responded to Yahoo Entertainment's request for comment.
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/ezra-miller-farm-kids-weed-guns-193546631.html
Yahoo! neglected to mention the mother of the three children has denied these accusations.
Quote
But the mother, 25, who is allegedly still living at Miller's Stamford, Vt., farm with her children (aged 1 to 5), told the outlet that Miller, 29, got her away from a "violent and abusive ex," and "helped me finally ... have a safe environment for my three very young children."
https://ew.com/celebrity/ezra-miller-exposed-children-to-guns-farm-report/
But what does this mean exactly? Is she telling the truth, or is Miller really that good at brainwashing people?
I'm getting really tired of this whole saga surrounding Ezra Miller. The police need to find him and investigate what the hell is going on. Miller has already given himself a bad name after everything he did in Hawaii, the least he could do is speak up and condemn these allegations - IF he is innocent of course.
If he can't do that because these allegations are true, then he needs to go to jail. The longer he stays silent, the more guilty he looks.
Jim lee comic con art
(https://i0.wp.com/www.popsfera.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/9F48E9E1-E179-4EF5-B448-9B52DD901B43.jpeg?resize=800%2C445&ssl=1)
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 25 Jun 2022, 08:03Yahoo! neglected to mention the mother of the three children has denied these accusations.
And you neglect to mention that the father doesn't deny the accusations.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 29 Jun 2022, 15:00
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 25 Jun 2022, 08:03Yahoo! neglected to mention the mother of the three children has denied these accusations.
And you neglect to mention that the father doesn't deny the accusations.
Not sure what you're getting at here. I didn't think I had to mention the dad, because I brought up the likelihood that the mother might be brainwashed by Miller. Just because I said Yahoo! neglected one detail doesn't mean I'm convinced Miller is innocent.
Anyway, it seems a planned spinoff show featuring Miller's Flash has been quietly scrapped, according to an actress who later deleted the tweet.
https://youtu.be/4WANNyiK7sI
It's being reported that The Flash and Aquaman II, both of which feature Keaton's Batman, will be absent from Comic Con. Most likely owing to the uncertainty surrounding Miller and Heard. Next thing you know, we'll find out that Bill Cosby's been cast as Lucius Fox in Batgirl and then that'll get cancelled too.
Bat-Keaton's big comeback is not proceeding as planned. >:(
The weird thing is, if they just let Snyder finish up his story, we would've been out of the DCEU years ago, and none of this would've been an issue.
lol, oh well....
Quote from: Travesty on Thu, 30 Jun 2022, 18:55
The weird thing is, if they just let Snyder finish up his story, we would've been out of the DCEU years ago, and none of this would've been an issue.
100% spot on. It's also too bad Keaton's return HAD to be all of this mess. If Batgirl was at least a Burtonverse spinoff, it would've been easy to bypass this.
Meanwhile, Variety reckons the movie is still expected to go into theaters, while interviewing people who witnessed Miller's choking incident in Iceland, and reporting another allegation in Germany:
Quote
As for Miller's future as a movie star, it's unclear whether they will continue to perform as the Scarlet Speedster in future projects, but Warner Bros. is still committed to releasing its $200 million-budgeted tentpole "The Flash" in theaters in June 2023. According to sources with knowledge of the project, the film simply costs too much for the studio to scrap entirely and reshooting with a new actor in Miller's role is similarly cost-prohibitive, because the actor is in virtually every scene. Also, the film likely can't generate the revenues needed to turn a profit without a robust theatrical run, so putting the movie directly on HBO Max is also unlikely. All eyes are on Warner Bros., however, as to how it continues to navigate the choppy waters surrounding Miller. The studio already had to downplay the actor's involvement in "Fantastic Beasts: The Secrets of Dumbledore," which opened in theaters in April.
https://variety.com/2022/film/news/ezra-miller-iceland-choking-germany-harassment-1235307056/
I don't believe this movie is going to theaters. It doesn't line up with the word going around that Miller has been fired. We'll see.
How long before a Miller version of this comes along?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DN6UEsSywPo
From the Flash Film News Twitter account:
Quote
EXCLUSIVE: We obtained the Santa Monica Police Report & it contradicts previous claims:
- PR initially filed by Chase Iron Eyes, not Sarah
- Ezra Miller closed a car door on Sarah, not repeatedly slam
- Police were not at the scene
- No mention of Gibson or Ezra pulling a knife
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FW_2NaMWIAAzndN?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FW_2NaMWYAEH_6g?format=jpg&name=large)
May 31: Laundi Germaine Keepseagle, through a private DM on Chase's behalf, claimed she was with Sarah Jumping Eagle & Ezra pulled a knife on Sarah, however she's not mentioned in the report nor in any other published article & the report does not mention Ezra pulling a knife.
June 9: Rolling Stones first reported on this incident in Santa Monica which stated Sarah initially filed the police report. The report shows Chase initiated the filing - "Upon our arrival we met with RP, later identified as [Redacted], advised that HE arrived from South Dakota".
June 11: Chief Bear Cross wrote to The Last Real Indians, a publication owned by Chase, claiming Ezra slammed a car door on Sarah's arm multiple times & Gibson (not Ezra) pulled a knife. Per the report, "The vehicle door was CLOSED on [Redacted] right arm". No mention of a knife.
July 1: in an interview with the Independant, Sarah claimed "The police eventually turned up at the scene but Ezra & Tokata had already gone," however the police report shows the police showed up to 662 Ozone St, 6 min away from the incident.
Though an altercation did happen in Santa Monica, details from the May 29th incident changed multiple times. Since May 31, third parties on Chase's behalf have made unsubstantiated claims about the incident via private DMs & publications.
https://www.twitter.com/FlashFilmNews/status/1544723923006357504
The fan Twitter thing is all public relations and spin. It seems to consist mostly of "Yeah, it's bad. But not AS bad as you might have heard."
Well, okay. I stand corrected. But guess what? "Groomer" is now inextricably linked to this film. There doesn't seem to be anyone out there debunking that.
We're sort of beyond the point of damage control. Does WBD have the requisite paired reproductive organs to release this movie as is with the groomer thing hanging over it?
There is a rumour going around that Elliot Page is one of the contenders to replace Ezra Miller.
I'm so NOT looking forward to the raging political discourse if that casting happens. I doubt it will happen anyway.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H03ggD72WK4
Warner Brothers Discovery Conference Call With David Zaslav
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Main takeaways.
1. Zaslav says he has a 10 year plan concerning DC Movies.
2. Zaslav is excited for The Flash, Shazam 2, and Black Adam to be released.
3. He considers The Trinity ( Batman Superman and Wonder Woman) some of their big franchises.
4. HBO Max and Discovery will combine into one streaming service. There will be a free version with ads and a paid version summer 2023.
https://variety.com/2022/film/news/batgirl-david-zaslav-warner-bros-discovery-1235333681/
Stole this sentiment for use here:
It is 2013 and Warner Bros. says they have a 10-year plan for DC.
It is 2019 and Warner Bros. says they have a 10-year plan for DC.
It is 2022 and Warner Bros. says they have a 10-year plan for DC.
It is 2030 and Warner Bros. says they have a 10-year plan for DC.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FZXTFS0WIAA1JXB?format=png&name=900x900)
If the current 10 year plan is strictly adhered to, in theory the problems that plagued the DCEU should be reduced. We need Zaslav to mean absolute business about delivering quality products that aren't constantly tinkered with. Chopping Batgirl gives me hope he's up to that task. I gather The Flash is too expensive to burn. Shazam and Aquaman were financially successful, so even if he doesn't agree with the current continuity I don't see the business sense in talking them down right now. It's all about what happens afterwards. I'm all for a reboot, but the concern always comes back to casting. I'm ready for Cavill to go after this period of stagnation, whether it was him holding out for money or being screwed over. At this point the reason is irrelevant. But the JJ Abrams Superman project can't be the answer.
Quote from: The Joker on Thu, 4 Aug 2022, 22:51
2. Zaslav is excited for The Flash
I mean, he's going to say that whether he intends to release the movie as is or if he orders it to be changed in some way. That conference call sounds more like a "rally the troops" kind of thing more than a battle plan.
EDIT- I'm not claiming that The Flash will be changed/cancelled. I'm just saying we shouldn't draw too many inferences from a conference call leak.
Zaslav sounds like he's doubling down on getting The Flash out in theaters, and seemed pretty buoyant about making the upcoming DC movies "even better". If we read into that, it seems more money will be spent on reshoots. That could cause further delays too. Either Miller will get recast and all of his scenes get reshot (which I can't see it happening because it seems they'd have to remake the entire film, judging by the multiple roles he's playing), or throw caution to the wind and release it as is.
Now that Batgirl and the supposed Aquaman cameo got scrapped, rumour has that Keaton's Batman future will be cut short and The Flash will be a one-and-done deal. Sucks to hear that if it's true, a final Burtonverse-related Batman film would've been far more preferable.
I still think they need to burn it to the ground. lol
Quote from: Travesty on Fri, 5 Aug 2022, 16:01
I still think they need to burn it to the ground. lol
If they don't want the current trajectory to take place (they have scrapped Batgirl and redone Keaton's Aquaman scenes), spending money on Flash reshoots would be necessary. Zaslav would have to hold his nose and do the messy embarrassment hopefully one last time and then draw a line in the sand. After all I've said about wanting a fresh start, I'm still not willing to concretely declare what is happening. There is a course correction going on, but to what degree? The past has shown this saga has more twists than an S bend.
Looks like your favorite weirdo is at it AGAIN. This time, he got charged with a felony burglary!
https://variety.com/2022/film/news/ezra-miller-burglary-the-flash-vermont-1235336304/ (https://variety.com/2022/film/news/ezra-miller-burglary-the-flash-vermont-1235336304/)
Quote from: Travesty on Mon, 8 Aug 2022, 23:40
Looks like your favorite weirdo is at it AGAIN. This time, he got charged with a felony burglary!
https://variety.com/2022/film/news/ezra-miller-burglary-the-flash-vermont-1235336304/ (https://variety.com/2022/film/news/ezra-miller-burglary-the-flash-vermont-1235336304/)
This comes on the same day as Tokata Iron Eyes going to a news site denying being abused by Miller.
https://www.businessinsider.com/ezra-miller-tokata-iron-eyes-allegations-grooming-abuse-2022-8
Groomer or not, I can't see Ezra having a future as the Flash. The question now is what will they do to this movie? If they reshoot it even further, I wouldn't be surprised if it gets delayed to 2024.
Quote from: Travesty on Mon, 8 Aug 2022, 23:40
Looks like your favorite weirdo is at it AGAIN. This time, he got charged with a felony burglary!
https://variety.com/2022/film/news/ezra-miller-burglary-the-flash-vermont-1235336304/ (https://variety.com/2022/film/news/ezra-miller-burglary-the-flash-vermont-1235336304/)
It's been reported they actually managed to get Ezra in for reshoots in between his arrests. Between this and axing Batgirl, the course correction seems to be on track. Just imagine if we actually get the Snyder trinity back together on the big screen. It would be an almighty comeback story.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/the-flash-fate-ezra-miller-problem-worsens-warners-1235196919/
Warner Bros. Weighing Fate of 'The Flash' as Its Ezra Miller Problem Grows
The fate of Warner Bros.' The Flash hangs in the balance as actor Ezra Miller continues to make headlines for their controversial behavior and various arrests. An outright shelving of the film is not off the table, though it would be a last resort.
Warners — and its new parent company, Warner Bros. Discovery — had hoped to avoid the line of fire, because its big-budget DC superhero tentpole isn't scheduled to hit theaters until June 23, 2023. But the pressure is mounting by the day.
On Monday, the actor was charged with a felony burglary, and on Wednesday, Rolling Stone reported that Vermont's child services department is attempting to locate a mother and three children who have allegedly been residing at Miller's farm in the state.
A source with knowledge of the situation says the studio appears to be preparing for three possible scenarios.
First, Warners has received indications that the 29-year-old Miller, whose mother has accompanied the actor in recent days, will seek professional help after returning home to their farm in Vermont after being away. If that help happens, Miller, who goes by they/them pronouns, could give an interview at some point explaining their erratic behavior over the past few years. The actor could then do limited press for The Flash, and the movie would open in cinemas as planned.
The second scenario: Even if Miller doesn't reach out for help, Warners could still release the film. But don't expect Miller to play a prominent role in terms of marketing and publicity. Nor would Miller be The Flash going forward, as the role would be recast in future projects.
The third case: Things go from bad to worse, with the situation with Miller deteriorating. This would see Warners killing the movie outright, as it could not be reshot with a different actor. Miller plays multiple characters and is in almost every scene. Scrapping a $200 million film would be an unprecedented move.
All of this comes amid change at Warners. Earlier this month, newly minted Warner Bros. Discovery CEO David Zaslav stunned Hollywood when shelving Batgirl, a $90 million movie made for HBO Max. Unlike The Flash, there was no individual controversy involved; rather Zaslav opted to take a tax write-down on the project and pivot away from making streaming films for DC.
Miller was cast as The Flash in 2014, the same year a solo The Flash film was announced. The development process has been long, with multiple directors coming and going over the years until It filmmaker Andy Muschietti finally got the project off the ground. The film also stars Michael Keaton, back as Batman for the first time in 30 years, and Ben Affleck as a different version of Batman.
Miller began their time as The Flash with cameos in Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice and Suicide Squad, both released in 2016, before having a main role in Justice League a year later.
The Flash is a key film for Warners, as it is expected to chart a new course for the DC Extended Universe. The film has been testing well, even as Miller's legal woes continue to mount.
Earlier this week, word broke that they have been charged with felony burglary for allegedly stealing bottles of alcohol from a Vermont home. According to a police report posted online, Vermont State Police were notified May 1 of a potential burglary when residents on County Road in Stamford, Vermont, reported that "several bottles of alcohol were taken from within the residence while the homeowners were not present." Following an investigation that included taking statements and reviewing surveillance videos, police found probable cause to charge Miller.
The latest charge comes after Miller was arrested in April in Hawaii and booked on suspicion of second-degree assault, per the Hawaii Island Police Department. The incident reportedly occurred when Miller was attending a get-together at a private residence and "became irate after being asked to leave and reportedly threw a chair, striking a 26-year-old female on the forehead," per police.
That came on the heels of a March arrest on charges of disorderly conduct and harassment following an incident at a karaoke bar in Hilo, Hawaii.
At least one project has already distanced itself from Miller. On Tuesday, the Salvador Dali Biopic Daliland left Miller out of its press release in an announcement about its debut at the Toronto Film Festival. The actor plays a young version of the artist in the project, which stars Ben Kingsley as an older version.
Despite the arrests and headlines about Miller's alleged behavior, Warner Bros. Discovery chief Zaslav said last week that the studio is committed to theatrical releases for a number of DC films including The Flash.
"We've seen them. We think they are terrific, and we think we can make them even better," Zaslav said of DC's upcoming slate, including The Flash.
CAA, which represents Miller, didn't immediately respond to a request for comment
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Thu, 11 Aug 2022, 16:39A source with knowledge of the situation says the studio appears to be preparing for three possible scenarios.
First, Warners has received indications that the 29-year-old Miller, whose mother has accompanied the actor in recent days, will seek professional help after returning home to their farm in Vermont after being away. If that help happens, Miller, who goes by they/them pronouns, could give an interview at some point explaining their erratic behavior over the past few years. The actor could then do limited press for The Flash, and the movie would open in cinemas as planned.
Yep, all we need to do is hope that Miller doesn't commit any more crimes or get arrested for the crimes he's already committed or get asked about his many, varied and frankly shocking legal problems on the press junket. No sweat!
Srsly tho, I'm starting to wonder how gd many anvils need to get dropped on management's collective head before they figure it out. MILLER IS TROUBLE AND THIS ISN'T GOING AWAY. The public doesn't care how much the movie costs when stuff like "grooming" and "child-endangerment" are now inextricably linked to Miller's brand. You don't bounce back from this.
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Thu, 11 Aug 2022, 16:39The second scenario: Even if Miller doesn't reach out for help, Warners could still release the film. But don't expect Miller to play a prominent role in terms of marketing and publicity. Nor would Miller be The Flash going forward, as the role would be recast in future projects.
Ibid.
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Thu, 11 Aug 2022, 16:39The third case: Things go from bad to worse, with the situation with Miller deteriorating. This would see Warners killing the movie outright, as it could not be reshot with a different actor. Miller plays multiple characters and is in almost every scene. Scrapping a $200 million film would be an unprecedented move.
This is starting to look like the only sane option with each passing day.
I remind all of you that the scandals that have been reported is only the stuff that we KNOW about. But you can't look me in the eye and tell me that Miller hasn't pulled other shenanigans that may or may not surface at the worst possible time.
Put your big boy pants on and cut your losses, WBD.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FZ4u_x3aUAAjzgP?format=jpg)
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Thu, 11 Aug 2022, 16:39
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/the-flash-fate-ezra-miller-problem-worsens-warners-1235196919/
Warner Bros. Weighing Fate of 'The Flash' as Its Ezra Miller Problem Grows
This tweet gave me a chuckle:
(https://i.imgur.com/XRNmi4F.jpg)
Meanwhile, Miller was seen at home by paparazzi, seemingly unbothered by the controveries surrounding him.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11099883/Scandal-plagued-Ezra-Miller-smiles-lounge-mothers-Vermont-porch.html
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Fri, 12 Aug 2022, 12:06
Meanwhile, Miller was seen at home by paparazzi, seemingly unbothered by the controveries surrounding him.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11099883/Scandal-plagued-Ezra-Miller-smiles-lounge-mothers-Vermont-porch.html
And he'll continue to act the same, unless he gets actual psychiatric help(probably needs to stay in a psych ward for a bit), or he's put in jail.
He's not going to change. Every time he assaults someone, he claims to be the victim, and calls everyone "transphobes" or "nazis". I mean, he's literally getting into fights with women on video. He needs consequences for his actions. Him being babied at his house by his mom, while he's smiling at the paparazzi, is just sending him the wrong message. He constantly comes out thinking he's the victim in all of this, and that his worldview is correct. He clearly has mental issues. I just hope nobody gets seriously hurt or dies, including Ezra. But he's 100% the problem here.
Quote from: Travesty on Fri, 12 Aug 2022, 12:21
He's not going to change. Every time he assaults someone, he claims to be the victim, and calls everyone "transphobes" or "nazis". I mean, he's literally getting into fights with women on video. He needs consequences for his actions. Him being babied at his house by his mom, while he's smiling at the paparazzi, is just sending him the wrong message. He constantly comes out thinking he's the victim in all of this, and that his worldview is correct. He clearly has mental issues. I just hope nobody gets seriously hurt or dies, including Ezra. But he's 100% the problem here.
You raise a good point. Ezra is bad news but he is just one of many deviants that society has elevated and celebrated. These people have made to be feel comfortable enough to engage in such behavior, with any serious conduct dismissed as eccentricity - an individual simply expressing one of their fifty personalities. I blame the people who cast Ezra in the first place and all of his enablers. I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest to wake up one day to see The Flash has been chopped. What an absolute twisted metal mess this all is.
#DamageControl
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/general-news/ezra-miller-seeking-treatment-mental-health-apology-1235199598/amp/#scso=_Cz37YqHKCMz14-EP5dSK-A015:195
If he'd gotten into a bar fight or arrested for DUI, this might be enough.
But somehow, I don't think this will cut it for all that many people.
Pretty much reminds me of when South park made fun of the CEOs with the BP oil spill.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1seyAkxO1s
Saw this manip on Instagram. I think its a legit Keaton?
(https://i.postimg.cc/h4fk1WLz/Screenshot-20220821-195902-Instagram.jpg)
Quote from: Travesty on Tue, 16 Aug 2022, 12:14
Pretty much reminds me of when South park made fun of the CEOs with the BP oil spill.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1seyAkxO1s
Let's see how long the token apology option lasts. For what it's worth, I keep reading audience reactions to test screenings were positive. Even if just for Keaton I want them to get the film out there. This is his biggest Batman reprisal, and Ezra be damned, he shouldn't completely ruin this for him and everybody else. I want Keaton to show them all who really rules the night, even if it's for One Last Time. But I acknowledge it's a long time until June 2023.
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Mon, 22 Aug 2022, 00:02
Saw this manip on Instagram. I think its a legit Keaton?
(https://i.postimg.cc/h4fk1WLz/Screenshot-20220821-195902-Instagram.jpg)
It does look legit, but even if it isn't, this is still the best image of Keaton's new Batsuit so far. I like it.
A few weeks ago, Syl Abdul Inc - the same guy who scooped Affleck would replace Keaton in Aquaman 2 - said his sources claimed additional reshoots happened a while ago, and Affleck is still the main Batman going forward. If that's true then this might mean that Flash would be Keaton's final Batman appearance. Whatever the truth is, it has been an incredibly exhausting time following the news surrounding this production.
Another rumour I've heard is WBD is sticking with Miller despite all the chaos over the last few months. Either they know something we don't and believe the allegations are bogus, or they don't know anything and just don't care.
If Miller is innocent then lawsuits should be filed against the accusers for defamation. If he is guilty, well, that would be the tip of the iceberg following his previous arrests.
To call it a gamble feels like an understatement. I don't know what else to say.
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Mon, 22 Aug 2022, 00:02
Saw this manip on Instagram. I think its a legit Keaton?
(https://i.postimg.cc/h4fk1WLz/Screenshot-20220821-195902-Instagram.jpg)
Could be. That's essentially what the suit looks like in any case.
Apparently BatKeaton's last words are along the lines of "you already brought me back' after sustaining damage and possibly being presumed to die. I think that scene can stay. I'd flip the original ending of the movie around and have Affleck's Bruce meet Barry at the end, thus restoring equilibrium, and instead show a message recorded by Keaton back in the Burtonverse, stating he's alive and well continuing his crusade - confirming his statement that the events of the film restored his sense of heroism. That message segment was originally meant to be Batfleck appealing to be rescued by Barry as he's trapped in time. I think that altered sequencing would work well, and I'm hoping that's what they go for. All in all, The Flash has every possibility of being a solid showcase for both Keaton and Affleck.
Target has the new keaton suit kids costume. I tried to take some photos
(https://i.postimg.cc/vBTRQcMR/20220910-190410.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/ydbMWsYD/20220910-190414.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/BbPdKkXM/20220910-190428.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/G906JKDr/20220910-190505.jpg)
They aslo had the flash tho I am not 100% sure if this is the movie suit
(https://i.postimg.cc/GhFbgTmz/20220910-190600.jpg)
What a ride this film's development has been. It seems the original ending is staying put (Keaton continues after The Flash and Batfleck remains alive but trapped in time). The reshoots seem to be about inserting Cavill into the mix, as the original film was designed to erase him from continuity. I read this a while back, but apparently there's a scene where Batfleck tells Barry that tragedy shapes who we are, and thus certain events should remain. I really hope that line is in the film as it goes to my long held belief that if he could, Bruce would never change the past to bring back his own parents.
I wonder if Keatons been doing any reshoots then? He's been really quiet on social media for a while now
Now that the shocking and disgraceful news over Gunn becoming the new CEO of DC Studios, I'm starting to understand what sort of company WBD is after they announced their intention to stick with Miller.
Disgusting.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Tue, 25 Oct 2022, 21:04
Now that the shocking and disgraceful news over Gunn becoming the new CEO of DC Studios, I'm starting to understand what sort of company WBD is after they announced their intention to stick with Miller.
Disgusting.
Don't take it too personally. If the rumors of the Comcast buyout are true, this company won't exist anymore in a year and a half.
Weird choice with Gunn. I mean, his DC tastes seem to gravitate towards the quirky and obscure. Where he can dramatically revise/reinterpret characters at a "R" rated will due to only a small fraction of the populace even being aware of such characters in the first place.
James Gunn is a savvy guy. I'll give him that much. Creatively speaking? I'm just not seeing it. Apparently, someone has to get paid to try to steer the ship.
Can't speak on this Peter Safran fellow.
Quote from: The Joker on Tue, 25 Oct 2022, 22:19
Weird choice with Gunn. I mean, his DC tastes seem to gravitate towards the quirky and obscure. Where he can dramatically revise/reinterpret characters at a "R" rated will due to only a small fraction of the populace even being aware of such characters in the first place.
James Gunn is a savvy guy. I'll give him that much. Creatively speaking? I'm just not seeing it. Apparently, someone has to get paid to try to steer the ship.
Can't speak on this Peter Safran fellow.
As I understand it, Safran has been a producer for many post-Josstice League films, including TSS. Which might explain why Gunn got this position in the first place.
I've seen many Snyderverse fans fearing for the worst over any potential prospects of Zack coming back, but I say that's beside the point. Gunn is a creep. But clearly, being a creep is something that's celebrated in Hollywood.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 25 Oct 2022, 21:14
Don't take it too personally. If the rumors of the Comcast buyout are true, this company won't exist anymore in a year and a half.
And when that happens, Comcast will do something just as shady as reprehensible. "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss".
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Wed, 26 Oct 2022, 08:35
Quote from: The Joker on Tue, 25 Oct 2022, 22:19
Weird choice with Gunn. I mean, his DC tastes seem to gravitate towards the quirky and obscure. Where he can dramatically revise/reinterpret characters at a "R" rated will due to only a small fraction of the populace even being aware of such characters in the first place.
James Gunn is a savvy guy. I'll give him that much. Creatively speaking? I'm just not seeing it. Apparently, someone has to get paid to try to steer the ship.
Can't speak on this Peter Safran fellow.
As I understand it, Safran has been a producer for many post-Josstice League films, including TSS. Which might explain why Gunn got this position in the first place.
I've seen many Snyderverse fans fearing for the worst over any potential prospects of Zack coming back, but I say that's beside the point. Gunn is a creep. But clearly, being a creep is something that's celebrated in Hollywood.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 25 Oct 2022, 21:14
Don't take it too personally. If the rumors of the Comcast buyout are true, this company won't exist anymore in a year and a half.
And when that happens, Comcast will do something just as shady as reprehensible. "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss".
Given how they handle Halloween and Jurassic Park, I really dont want them to buy WB
More The Flash merchandise spotted! This time at Target! (Also the barcode if you want to try and look it up) I wonder why all the capes since Nolan dont have the cut outs at the bottom?
(https://i.postimg.cc/vHfp3sHx/flashorna.png)
(https://i.postimg.cc/s1d4vqtt/Flashbar.jpg)
(https://geekositymag.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/Details-Emerge-On-Ben-Afflecks-Batman-Movie-03.jpg)
It appears to be an inconsistent element of Affleck's suit. Odd. I've found pics that show a level hem of his cape. But there are also pics like this one that show the... what are we calling those things? Tapers? Scallops?
Anyway, you can find examples of both with Afflec's outfit. Make whatever you want of that.
Last week it was reasserted by multiple sources that Keaton is still the DCU Batman. At most Cavill has been added to the end, though there is some contention to whether he's in the movie or not.
I don't know about that, there has been a lot of suspicious gossip about Keaton and Affleck. Some scoopers say Keaton's future is over after The Flash. I guess it depends who you ask.
There is one recurring rumour I keep hearing that Batfleck is stuck in another timeline, but if that's the case, then what's he doing in Aquaman 2? Either Aquaman 2 takes place before Flash, which I find unlikely, or Batfleck's post-Flash appearance recurs in movies leading up to an event. If Keaton was still replacing Affleck, then the decision to scrap Batgirl doesn't make much sense.
FWIW, James Momoa was quite adamant that Affleck is back...then again, one could say it's only for Aquaman. Or maybe not?
Honestly, I'm not sure I'd want either Keaton or Affleck coming back if they're subjected to James Gunn's idiocy now that he's co-head of DC Films. I'm still shaking my head over that.
Anyway, some promotional materials were shown at Brazil's CCXP a week or so ago.
(https://i.imgur.com/iHuQJyx.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/FIRYyrY.jpg)
The bit about the "two idiot kids" thing was already stated by Muschietti in a promo video last year, now it's confirmed that both versions of Barry are the idiots, not Keaton's Batman like some feared. I'm still not enthused, Barry in ZSJL wasn't exactly stupid, and I'm not keen on more Marvelesque humour.
As for the two costumes: I'd say the Prime Flash suit translates very well in the artwork, but that butchered Keaton Batsuit the other Barry is wearing...smh. No words.
Despite these promotional materials getting shown to the public, there is still no trailer for this movie, despite it coming out in six months. That's very unusual, but it does match up with the rumours the movie is STILL get tweaked after extensive reshoots. Another rumour is they still haven't figured out the ending yet. Even if you get past the Ezra problem, that still isn't a good sign. I'd be surprised if a trailer does come out before the New Year.
^ On that note, somebody is doing a great job of keeping Ezra Miller out of the headlines. It's been a while since anybody accused him of being the second gunman on the grassy knoll.
As to Keaton, I would imagine he isn't happy about his scenes getting cut from two of the three movies. He may still be the DCU Batman for all I know. But I would be surprised by that.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 6 Dec 2022, 14:32
^ On that note, somebody is doing a great job of keeping Ezra Miller out of the headlines. It's been a while since anybody accused him of being the second gunman on the grassy knoll.
That made me laugh harder than it should. On that note is also being said that Keaton is still a huge part of the film, still co-headline, no matter if he's DCU Batman or not, as it will now be up to Keaton to promote and sell the movie basically on his own.
Also, it hasn't been mentioned on this site, but Ben Affleck has signed an exclusive acting deal with a company he started. He is also taking interviews and dumping on the big franchise mentality of studios, calling them 'assembly lines.' I think he's done.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Tue, 6 Dec 2022, 16:40Also, it hasn't been mentioned on this site, but Ben Affleck has signed an exclusive acting deal with a company he started. He is also taking interviews and dumping on the big franchise mentality of studios, calling them 'assembly lines.' I think he's done.
If that's his opinion... well, can't blame him. He hasn't exactly been treated well. Besides, in recent times he's been making a lot of quality films, either as director or actor or both. Him returning to non-superhero cinema is good news in my book.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 6 Dec 2022, 18:21
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Tue, 6 Dec 2022, 16:40Also, it hasn't been mentioned on this site, but Ben Affleck has signed an exclusive acting deal with a company he started. He is also taking interviews and dumping on the big franchise mentality of studios, calling them 'assembly lines.' I think he's done.
If that's his opinion... well, can't blame him. He hasn't exactly been treated well. Besides, in recent times he's been making a lot of quality films, either as director or actor or both. Him returning to non-superhero cinema is good news in my book.
I think he's right, but more to the point it doesn't bode well for anyone who wants him to stick around.
Seems like Batgirl Directors talked to James Gunn, tho I think it may be about doing somthing besides Batgirl.
In other news, the apparent new Batwing (keaton)
https://i.postimg.cc/FH3Wqpt5/the-flash-film-news-where-does-he-get-those-wonderful-toys-v0-n4qzvqrrsd4a1.jpg
Reports from the latest test screening of Aquaman II are stating that Affleck has been cut from the film.
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Wed, 7 Dec 2022, 02:04
In other news, the apparent new Batwing (keaton)
https://i.postimg.cc/FH3Wqpt5/the-flash-film-news-where-does-he-get-those-wonderful-toys-v0-n4qzvqrrsd4a1.jpg
From the leaked plot details I've read, it sounds like Bat-Keaton will be using the Batwing to battle Zod and his army of Kryptonian invaders. Bruce better have fixed the targeting system if he's planning to shoot kryptonite bullets.
Okay, this is the DC/Flash situation currently. Spoilers ahead.
...
The Flash has not changed at all. The ending remains the same.
Keaton is Batman.
Sasha Calle is Supergirl. Superman's fate is not directly addressed, it is left opened ended as to whether he's around or not. This was the original plan as no deal was in place. Technically there still isn't one, but, Cavill's inclusion in Black Adam probably means that he's safe, but he has a cousin now and is likely not the Snyder incarnation.
This is a supposition of my own, true, though I do think more attention needs to be paid to the mid credit sequence of BA, which already shows signs of retcon IE Superman seems more traditional, he's got the Johnny Williams theme and the curl and is being represented as a juxtaposition to Black Adam.
Aquaman 2 has no Batman at all. it is being reported that Batman is no longer necessary to the plot. Originally Bruce Wayne informs Arthur of some kind thermal problem with the core of the earth. The reshoots might have handled that.
Another note here:
It is also being scooped that the entire reason that Affleck was hired for Aqua 2 was because they weren't sure at one point which movie would come out first, but the new cut of the film doesn't need Batman at all.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Wed, 7 Dec 2022, 17:34
Another note here:
It is also being scooped that the entire reason that Affleck was hired for Aqua 2 was because they weren't sure at one point which movie would come out first, but the new cut of the film doesn't need Batman at all.
That makes the most sense, especially considering Affleck's announcement about the remainder of his career. We have a situation where two Batman actors, Keaton and Affleck, filmed sequences for a film (Aquaman II) only to have all of their content deleted. Pretty incredible.
As for The Flash, I'm still eager to see it from the point of view it's Batman III. Again, the plot rundown I read had a bunch of good moments for Keaton and he's in the film a lot. If the test screenings have been as successful as claimed, then let's see that movie. The movie that was originally intended, for better or for worse. After that, who knows what the plan is.
Man of Steel 2 might be canceled. I think they're rebooting the DCU. Insiders are convinced Gunn is just starting completely over. The Flash might be this universe's coda.
To add further insult to injury, Jason Momoa may end his run as Aquaman and become Lobo. That's right, kill off a billion-dollar franchise and relegate an established star to a D-list role. I can't believe Momoa would even consider this, but apparently, he's excited at the prospect because he grew up reading Lobo. Why, so he can become a tiresome Deadpool knockoff? f*** that downgrade.
All of this idiotic news has handicapped whatever box office potential Flash, Shazam 2 and Aquaman 2 may have had. Flash already had the odds stacked against it because of the negative fan reaction and skepticism toward plot details and Ezra's shenanigans, now it may have been given the kiss of death (if Ezra didn't already). Do people here really think mass audiences are going to get heavily invested in these projects knowing none of these actually matter? I'm sure solo Aquaman movie fans can't be too happy about that franchise ending prematurely.
None of this reboot talk makes any sense. WBD is reportedly in bad shape financially, but they're going to invest in such a risky venture, despite all the money they already spent on additional reshoots for these last crop of movies? They might as well scrap ALL of these films as tax write-offs instead as they did with Batgirl, because as of now, none of them fit any sort of "plan" Gunn and Safran have in mind.
And as for Gunn, is he keeping his TSS and Peacemaker drivel intact, or is he going to eliminate that as well? That's another WTF thought crossing my mind.
To be honest, I don't even feel outraged anymore. I felt that as soon as Gunn got the job in the first place, both creatively and morally, and I was dreading some dramatic bullsh*t would happen ever since. The fact that it was reported that studio execs Michael DeLuca and Pam Abdy wanted to continue with the Snyderverse actors shows there is a serious political clash going on behind the scenes. And here I was hoping we were passed that once the Emmerich/Hamada era came to an end. I was so naive.
If this DC reboot sh*t goes through - HA! - you can kiss the brand goodbye. Now THIS is how you alienate a fanbase.
BTW, if anyone is relieved that Matt Reeves' franchise is reportedly safe, be careful what you wish for. It's reported that Gunn and Safran will oversee that franchise too.
It is also being said that Flash is no longer locked, so the ending might altered to accommodate the fact that this is it.
BOF chimed in. They were the first ones who knew Keaton was back and despite what we might think of them they usually have it right as far as what's going on behind the scenes. In other words I trust their sources.
They say that this is it. The current iteration of the DCEU is going to end and they are going to reboot it. DC will be revamped from scratch.
I wonder if they go with a new Batman for their new universe. I want the Reeves-verse to be its own thing. I don't think they're going to dump it, but I hope they don't try and merge it together.
I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Thu, 8 Dec 2022, 17:18
BOF chimed in. They were the first ones who knew Keaton was back and despite what we might think of them they usually have it right as far as what's going on behind the scenes. In other words I trust their sources.
They say that this is it. The current iteration of the DCEU is going to end and they are going to reboot it. DC will be revamped from scratch.
I recommended something akin to this approach several months back. Mind you, my recommendations were based around the idea of honoring the characters rather than changing them, satisfying expectations rather than subverting them, etc.
Still, based on what we know, it would be hypocritical of me to criticize them for doing (more or less) what I recommended. As cynical as I might be of how this will all turn out (my expectations are low, let's say that), at least it sounds like they're following my suggestion SO FAR.
If anything, I'll give them credit. The piecemeal approach of "keeping what works, rejecting what doesn't" wasn't working. It was creating more problems than it solved. And no, #RestoreTheSnyderverse wouldn't have papered those issues over. So, a scorched Earth, page 01, new installation reboot is a just plain better choice at this stage in the game.
The cornerstone of my reboot idea is a cohesive live action DC universe minus Batman. Whether anyone likes it or not, the Reevesverse is its own thing. So, I suggested (and still suggest) using Green Arrow as a stand-in for Batman and letting Pattinson and co. do their thing. If we're learning lessons here, then let's take the Too Many Batmen lesson to heart this time out.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 8 Dec 2022, 18:06
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Thu, 8 Dec 2022, 17:18
BOF chimed in. They were the first ones who knew Keaton was back and despite what we might think of them they usually have it right as far as what's going on behind the scenes. In other words I trust their sources.
They say that this is it. The current iteration of the DCEU is going to end and they are going to reboot it. DC will be revamped from scratch.
I recommended something akin to this approach several months back. Mind you, my recommendations were based around the idea of honoring the characters rather than changing them, satisfying expectations rather than subverting them, etc.
Still, based on what we know, it would be hypocritical of me to criticize them for doing (more or less) what I recommended. As cynical as I might be of how this will all turn out (my expectations are low, let's say that), at least it sounds like they're following my suggestion SO FAR.
If anything, I'll give them credit. The piecemeal approach of "keeping what works, rejecting what doesn't" wasn't working. It was creating more problems than it solved. And no, #RestoreTheSnyderverse wouldn't have papered those issues over. So, a scorched Earth, page 01, new installation reboot is a just plain better choice at this stage in the game.
The cornerstone of my reboot idea is a cohesive live action DC universe minus Batman. Whether anyone likes it or not, the Reevesverse is its own thing. So, I suggested (and still suggest) using Green Arrow as a stand-in for Batman and letting Pattinson and co. do their thing. If we're learning lessons here, then let's take the Too Many Batmen lesson to heart this time out.
Hard for me to argue at this point. I've cooled off considerably since the cancellation of Batgirl and have set my adoration of Keaton aside. The whole thing was a huge convolution that only the most ardent of fanboys would be willing to follow. It's like trying to write the rest of someone else's murder mystery. So who dun it?
I'm getting what I want. The Flash will release. Sure, it isn't the dream scenario I expected, but I'm getting Keaton for one more rodeo where he will be not only be featured by spotlighted. Let it be, start it over. Love DCEU or hate it, the studio snake bit it from the start. They didn't know what they were doing, Snyder fan or not we can all agree there.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Thu, 8 Dec 2022, 13:17
Man of Steel 2 might be canceled. I think they're rebooting the DCU. Insiders are convinced Gunn is just starting completely over. The Flash might be this universe's coda.
Aquaman II should release before The Flash or just be scrapped if that's the plan. We've have a situation of Too Many Cooks using different recipes, bringing brand confusion and an almighty mess in the kitchen. I understand Gunn's desire for a clean slate, but it's jarring how quickly and sharply things turn. Teases for groups of people become disappointment and alienation. That cannot continue.
Quote from: Travesty on Thu, 8 Dec 2022, 17:27
I wonder if they go with a new Batman for their new universe. I want the Reeves-verse to be its own thing. I don't think they're going to dump it, but I hope they don't try and merge it together.
I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
If they want the Reeves-verse to integrate into the new plan, they're going to get Matt Reeves offside. I can't see him supporting that even if it were mandated. It's hard to know what is the stated objective and who to believe. Zaslav said the trinity were vital characters for the company going forward. If they are, a hard reboot means recasting at least two of them. But Gunn has been hired to tell the studio what to do because they're clueless. They'll pretty much do whatever he says, even if it clashes with what Zaslav said previously. Personally, I don't want another Batman in the new DCU. Let's just have Pattinson do his thing alone after Keaton's film is done.
Apparently there was an unannounced Batman Beyond film set to star Keaton that Gunn just cancelled.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Fri, 9 Dec 2022, 02:26
Apparently there was an unannounced Batman Beyond film set to star Keaton that Gunn just cancelled.
"Starring Michael B. Jordan!"
Bullet status = dodged (for now)
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Fri, 9 Dec 2022, 02:26
Apparently there was an unannounced Batman Beyond film set to star Keaton that Gunn just cancelled.
I'll pretend I didn't read that and The Flash was the only Keaton reprisal we were ever going to get. Technically speaking The Flash can fill in the time gap good enough without a Beyond film being made. Alfred died, Bruce lived on his own for a long time and became further detached from society. A meta human arrived, he returned to crime fighting and once again regained a sense of duty/heroism. There's a clear arc there.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 8 Dec 2022, 18:06
I recommended something akin to this approach several months back. Mind you, my recommendations were based around the idea of honoring the characters rather than changing them, satisfying expectations rather than subverting them, etc.
Still, based on what we know, it would be hypocritical of me to criticize them for doing (more or less) what I recommended. As cynical as I might be of how this will all turn out (my expectations are low, let's say that), at least it sounds like they're following my suggestion SO FAR.
If anything, I'll give them credit. The piecemeal approach of "keeping what works, rejecting what doesn't" wasn't working. It was creating more problems than it solved. And no, #RestoreTheSnyderverse wouldn't have papered those issues over. So, a scorched Earth, page 01, new installation reboot is a just plain better choice at this stage in the game.
The cornerstone of my reboot idea is a cohesive live action DC universe minus Batman. Whether anyone likes it or not, the Reevesverse is its own thing. So, I suggested (and still suggest) using Green Arrow as a stand-in for Batman and letting Pattinson and co. do their thing. If we're learning lessons here, then let's take the Too Many Batmen lesson to heart this time out.
Forgive me for being blunt, but this isn't Smallville. Having a shared movie universe without Batman makes no sense whatsoever from a business point of view. Batman is the most popular and lucrative character in the entire DC IP, and no money-grabbing executive is going to leave all that cash on the table and exclude him from meeting Superman, Wonder Woman and the wider DC universe...just to keep a certain director happy. Especially not a debt-ridden company like WBD.
No matter how much you try to hype up a character like Green Arrow, you would very likely see a demand of people wanting an interaction with Batman instead of passively accepting a surrogate.
If a DC reboot were to happen, I can only see these scenarios playing out: the creators behind the current Batman reboot would have to swallow their pride and become part of the shared universe, or they would have to leave and the studio would take full control of that franchise. Otherwise, the studio can either just abandon it and reboot again, or let it run its course before doing a full DC reboot.
Anyway, a couple of anonymous DC sources connected behind the scenes spoke to Deadline and appeared to express some doubts that a full-on reboot is guaranteed to be on the way:
Quote
"This is creating a riot," says one content maker connected to DC fare about the level of silence they've received on the fate of their DC projects going forward. "And it's a horrible optic. This business is based on relationships."
When it comes to the rumors out there that core DC superhero castmembers Gal Gadot (Wonder Woman), Jason Momoa (Aquaman) and Henry Cavill (Superman) might be recast as the Gunn-Safran administration creates a synergistic plan for the DC brand across all mediums, our source says: "These franchises which already make a lot of money — why stop them? How can a studio that's bearing so much debt afford to start from scratch? There are scripts and actors' schedules to be figured out."
Quote
Will there be a complete reboot of DC's core stars?
One studio insider tells us: "At no point was there any pre-conceived notions of not continuing with these actors. It all boils down to how The Flash (June 16) and Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom (December 25) do at the box office." Not to mention, the studio doesn't want Gadot to hang up Wonder Woman's lasso.
https://deadline.com/2022/12/wonder-woman-3-patty-jenkins-james-gunn-responds-dc-1235193576/
I wouldn't have any faith in a reboot with that degenerate James Gunn involved. But even if it were to happen, WBD would have to get its financial affairs in order, because as I said, things are not looking good.
https://www.fool.com/investing/2022/12/07/warner-bros-discovery-stock-has-been-left-for-dead/#:~:text=Second%2C%20Warner%20Bros.%20Discovery's%20balance,billion%20of%20cash%20on%20hand.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Fri, 9 Dec 2022, 10:00Forgive me for being blunt, but this isn't Smallville.
Not sure how that relates to anything.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Fri, 9 Dec 2022, 10:00Having a shared movie universe without Batman makes no sense whatsoever from a business point of view. Batman is the most popular and lucrative character in the entire DC IP, and no money-grabbing executive is going to leave all that cash on the table and exclude him from meeting Superman, Wonder Woman and the wider DC universe...just to keep a certain director happy. Especially not a debt-ridden company like WBD.
Assuming this reboot stuff is actually true, only a limited number of choices are on the table.
01- Reboot without Batman
02- Reboot with yet another new version of Batman while Pattinson's version is still a going concern
03- Reboot while forcibly annexing the Reevesverse
#2 takes us right back to where we started with multiple Batmen. #3 risks alienating Reeves. Ask anybody in Hollywood how easy it is to replace a director midstream.
#1 bypasses those problems while leaving the door wide open to introduce a new version of Batman after the Reeves version wraps up.
Frankly, none of those options are super attractive. But considering WBD has to play the ball where it is and since an otherwise trustworthy Hollywood trade is reporting on the reality of a reboot happening, #1 simply seems like the least bad option TO ME.
Rumors that Zaslav has been fishing for a buyout from a major player like Comcast have been making the rounds since the day he started. Several of the key decisions being made are consistent with what one might do if one wants to make his company as attractive for a buyout as possible. As to the stock price, all Zaslav needs to do is make sure the price rises higher than it was on the day he started. Even a string of moderate, well-received hits will achieve that. Comcast has reasons of their own for being interested in WBD anyway.
I realize that you're one of the #RestoreTheSnyderverse true believers. But it looks like that ship has sailed and we should all get comfortable with that reality.
Perhaps they just keep Keaton in the future framework but use him minimally. Batman is still included but have him taking more of a backseat, rather than the solo Beyond film they seemingly had planned. It could very well be why the ending of The Flash may remain. The Gunn plan is a reboot that cuts out big elements of the Snyder continuity but not the connective tissue that gets to that point. It really depends how hard of a reboot we're talking about here.
I don't even know what they're going to do? They seem to be in a huge pickle, either way. Batman is their most profitable character, and there's different versions going on at the same time of this rumored reboot.
I don't know?
I love the Reeves-verse, and I don't want it to be forced into a shared universe. Plus, I don't see this Batman working alongside a more fantastical cast of characters. If they do force it, it'll just feel contrived to me. But there is a possibility that they just axe it altogether. Hell, Aquaman was more profitable than The Batman, and they seem eager to reboot that, so I can't claim that The Batman is 100% safe. Again, I don't know?
If they get rid of the Reeves-verse, I'll be pretty pissed. If they force Pattinson into a shared universe, it'll probably diminish my love for the Reeves-verse, thus, pissing me off. Bad situation whichever way you cut it.
My hope, is they get a new Batman for the shared universe(DCU), and just keep him in the team up movies, while letting Reeves do his thing with solo movies. When Reeves' trilogy ends, they could start doing solo movies with the DCU Batman. But that's just me.
Gunn better figure this out, cause he's about to piss off a lot of people if this isn't well thought out. I'm not flipping tables yet. But we'll see.....
I'm going to quote myself from elsewhere:
QuoteWhether Keaton gets any solo this or that can be changed depending on how much business the Flash does. My two cents: I understand that this internet driven niche of the comic-book sphere doesn't think much of Keaton, but that was the same mentality that people had when they couldn't imagine 'Mr. Mom' as Batman. Gunn, though a good filmmaker, now strikes me as that kind of comic book fan, who doesn't understand that CB fan die-hards who can quote chapter and verse are not what makes money and if he's running the whole show he has to remember that or he's going to fry. Love it or hate it, Keaton is a draw to the general public, many of that group still consider his run the last time that they liked any of this. The general dollars are the real dollars.
I've said it before and I will say it again: You are vastly underestimating Keaton's (as Batman) drawing power. 70 or 100 years old, that version of Batman puts asses in seats. James Gunn has his chance to find out as we all do when Flash hits theaters. Flash will decide this matter.
Leakers and scoopers have been so off that I have no idea whats right and wrong anymore with these films. Its caused me to loose interest in it, and one reason wny im honestly glad I dont have a deep envolvement with these franchises (MCU warmed me up to that lol).
If The Flash is the Snyderverse send off, atleast it will be a film that (what we know) seems to be screening well. So while it may not be what we Snyderfans want, atleast it didnt end of Justice League Theatrical and will end on somthing grand and well received.
What we do not know for sure is Gunn is reworking the DCEU (possibly starting over). I think its starting off with the same problms they've had since the BVS days (knee jerk reactions/last minute structural retocns). Release Flash, see how it does and then go from there. No problem "what ifing" at this point, but nothing solid should be made till Flash's money comes in.
Im just qestioning alot what I read these days (really this whole year). From "Keaton wont be in costume" to "He'll just be a mentor type" to now "He had a whole new Batman movie scrapped" it's too much and I'll wait till either some direct evidence and/or/if Keaton speaks about it.
At the end of the day, for me, it is what it is. Im taking baby steps. Im waiting for The Flash. My ultimate goal now is to just see Keatons/Afflecks scenes on a bonus of Aquaman 2 just to see how they both handle the same material. That would be cool.
Quote from: Travesty on Fri, 9 Dec 2022, 14:57Gunn better figure this out, cause he's about to piss off a lot of people if this isn't well thought out. I'm not flipping tables yet. But we'll see.....
I'm getting the idea that this is an authentic leak. Meaning, this wasn't planned and it wasn't strategic in some way.
Assuming I'm right, this is a huge mess and Gunn is facing a pretty serious crisis. A lot of actors and directors realize their jobs could be on the line, their agents now look sort of like a-holes for not even realizing this was going on and it's hard to escape the idea that somebody did this to Gunn on purpose. No idea who or why. But this is looking like a stab in the back.
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Fri, 9 Dec 2022, 16:00
If The Flash is the Snyderverse send off, atleast it will be a film that (what we know) seems to be screening well. So while it may not be what we Snyderfans want, atleast it didnt end of Justice League Theatrical and will end on somthing grand and well received.
I see the logic in this being tied up in the Ezra situation. If they recast Superman and other prominent heroes as part of an official reboot of sorts, it's a lot less jarring that Barry Allen suddenly has a different physical appearance. If one goes they all go, and their time together on screen remains intact by going down together.
Quote from: Travesty on Fri, 9 Dec 2022, 14:57
If they get rid of the Reeves-verse, I'll be pretty pissed. If they force Pattinson into a shared universe, it'll probably diminish my love for the Reeves-verse, thus, pissing me off. Bad situation whichever way you cut it.
My hope, is they get a new Batman for the shared universe(DCU), and just keep him in the team up movies, while letting Reeves do his thing with solo movies. When Reeves' trilogy ends, they could start doing solo movies with the DCU Batman. But that's just me.
Reeves needs to be left alone, that much is clear to me. If Keaton isn't retained going forward I would greatly prefer what you propose here and simply wait for the Pattinson series to end and then integrate a new version for the shared universe. Spider-Man is Marvel's biggest character and he was absent from the MCU for the longest time. He lived on in a seperate universe with Maguire and Garfield before Holland appeared. I don't see why the same couldn't happen here.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Fri, 9 Dec 2022, 10:00
Anyway, a couple of anonymous DC sources connected behind the scenes spoke to Deadline and appeared to express some doubts that a full-on reboot is guaranteed to be on the way:
Quote
"This is creating a riot," says one content maker connected to DC fare about the level of silence they've received on the fate of their DC projects going forward. "And it's a horrible optic. This business is based on relationships."
When it comes to the rumors out there that core DC superhero castmembers Gal Gadot (Wonder Woman), Jason Momoa (Aquaman) and Henry Cavill (Superman) might be recast as the Gunn-Safran administration creates a synergistic plan for the DC brand across all mediums, our source says: "These franchises which already make a lot of money — why stop them? How can a studio that's bearing so much debt afford to start from scratch? There are scripts and actors' schedules to be figured out."
Quote
Will there be a complete reboot of DC's core stars?
One studio insider tells us: "At no point was there any pre-conceived notions of not continuing with these actors. It all boils down to how The Flash (June 16) and Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom (December 25) do at the box office." Not to mention, the studio doesn't want Gadot to hang up Wonder Woman's lasso.
https://deadline.com/2022/12/wonder-woman-3-patty-jenkins-james-gunn-responds-dc-1235193576/
Damn it, I posted the wrong link. Here is the correct article that contained those quotes:
https://deadline.com/2022/12/dc-wonder-woman-james-gunn-man-of-steel-1235193778/
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 9 Dec 2022, 13:05
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Fri, 9 Dec 2022, 10:00Forgive me for being blunt, but this isn't Smallville.
Not sure how that relates to anything.
I mentioned Smallville because your Green Arrow idea reminded me how that show used that character as a counterpart to Clark Kent, as Batman was off-limits while Nolan was doing his thing at the time.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Fri, 9 Dec 2022, 10:00
Having a shared movie universe without Batman makes no sense whatsoever from a business point of view. Batman is the most popular and lucrative character in the entire DC IP, and no money-grabbing executive is going to leave all that cash on the table and exclude him from meeting Superman, Wonder Woman and the wider DC universe...just to keep a certain director happy. Especially not a debt-ridden company like WBD.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 9 Dec 2022, 13:05
Assuming this reboot stuff is actually true, only a limited number of choices are on the table.
01- Reboot without Batman
02- Reboot with yet another new version of Batman while Pattinson's version is still a going concern
03- Reboot while forcibly annexing the Reevesverse
#2 takes us right back to where we started with multiple Batmen. #3 risks alienating Reeves. Ask anybody in Hollywood how easy it is to replace a director midstream.
#1 bypasses those problems while leaving the door wide open to introduce a new version of Batman after the Reeves version wraps up.
Frankly, none of those options are super attractive. But considering WBD has to play the ball where it is and since an otherwise trustworthy Hollywood trade is reporting on the reality of a reboot happening, #1 simply seems like the least bad option TO ME.
We can debate which is the least bad option all we want, but realistically, I can't see WBD having the patience to let one director finish his run before the character is free to join the shared universe. Regardless if it's a reboot or not.
Not that I have much faith in David Zaslav after hiring Gunn and Safran, but he has stated multiple times publicly that he wants Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman at the forefront of DC. From what I can tell about Zaslav, he doesn't care about alienating anybody, not after scrapping Batgirl
without informing any of the directors or the producers. If Zaslav supports Gunn's reboot ideas, he certainly won't care about alienating current actors who are under contract, like Gadot, Rock and Cavill.
With that in mind, do you really think people like Zaslav are going to miss out on making more money by not developing another team-up project with the Trinity, just to keep Reeves happy? I really doubt it. Either Reeves would have to swallow his pride and get on with the program, or he'd have to leave.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 9 Dec 2022, 13:05
I realize that you're one of the #RestoreTheSnyderverse true believers. But it looks like that ship has sailed and we should all get comfortable with that reality.
Believe it or not, I'm leaving emotion and my allegiance to the Snyderverse out of this discussion. I'm simply focused on whether or not a reboot is feasible, and trying to look at this situation realistically and logically.
But now that you have brought it up, are you sure that WBD unanimously agrees to end the Snyderverse? Because there appears to be some conflicting agendas going on behind the scenes:
Quote
Warner Bros. was indeed developing a sequel for 2013's Man of Steel and actively meeting with writers. Andy Muschietti, who directed Flash, even expressed interest in sitting behind the camera for something that would have brought a tone similar to the hopeful and heroic colors of the 1978 movie directed by Richard Donner, considered a benchmark in comic book movies. In fact, the current leadership team at Warner Bros Pictures — Michael De Luca and Pamela Abdy — did desire one more go-around of the Snyderverse heroes, possibly even having another Justice League movie with those actors.
But that was before Gunn and Safran began formulating their new (and still in flux) plan.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-features/wonder-woman-3-not-moving-forward-dc-movies-1235276804/
So there ARE/WERE plans to continue the Snyderverse characters for at least one more time. The last sentence would imply those plans are no more, but then this article adds this suspicious report:
Quote
Jenkins' exit came as James Gunn and Peter Safran have been getting settled into their new roles as co-CEOs of DC Films and are busy plotting out an extensive multi-year plan for DC films, TV shows and games that they will present to Warner Bros. Discovery CEO David Zaslav next week.
But the two had nothing to do with what happened to "Wonder Woman 3," TheWrap has learned.
Although Gunn and Safran have been given a mandate to reshape the DC landscape, Warner Bros. Discovery has "ongoing enterprises" that "nobody was going to mess with," according to one insider. This includes Matt Reeves writing the sequel to "The Batman," J.J. Abrams' Black-led "Superman" from Ta-Nehisi Coates, Todd Phillips' "Joker 2," and Patty Jenkins doing "Wonder Woman 3."
Last week, Jenkins turned in her treatment for "Wonder Woman 3" to the studio, according to the insiders.
Warner Bros. Film Group Co-Chairpersons and CEOs Michael De Luca and Pamela Abdy didn't think the treatment worked and decided not to move forward with the film in its current iteration. Gunn and Safran, who had nothing to do with the decision, also agreed with De Luca and Abdy that the treatment didn't work.
De Luca and Abdy spoke to Jenkins first and communicated that they didn't get the treatment, didn't think it was the right direction for the franchise and asked Jenkins if she would consider pitching something else for the IP in another direction.
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/warner-bros-didn-t-cancel-234524443.html
Normally I don't give Umberto Gonzalez any credibility, but I posted this article because THR reported De Luca and Abdy were involved in turning down Jenkins' script. If those two execs are pro-Snyderverse then they must've been behind the decisions to get Cavill and Affleck back for their appearances in Black Adam, The Flash and Aquaman 2.
Another confusing thing is that it's alleged WW3 isn't technically canceled, the Jenkins script is merely rejected. The studio wants to keep Gal Gadot. Well, this leads me to the following questions about what the hell is going on:
-Why would Zaslav approve of De Luca and Abdy spending time and money in bringing Cavill and Affleck back for additional appearances if his heart wasn't really in it? If the supposed ten-year plan for DC consisted of a reboot along the way as some scoopers say, did this desire to actually do it got fast-tracked earlier than planned? If that's the case then that's just poor planning and gives the impression that WBD is just as reactionary as previous WB regimes.
-Why is WBD wasting more money on extensive reshoots for the upcoming Flash, Aquaman and Shazam movies? Zaslav went on record saying that the studio was going to make them better a few months ago, but why bother if none of them are part of the new plans? They're diminished now, so why increase your debts even further? It's unnecessary and irresponsible. The Flash itself is reportedly still not even picture-locked yet, but what's the point of even releasing that movie and the other two now? Any potential excitement and box office prospects are depressed. Which in turn, leads me to ask, what was the real reason for Batgirl's cancellation?
-If this THR article was a deliberate leak that didn't come from Gunn or Safran's office, then who revealed their plans? Was it De Luca and Abdy? Is this over a battle for boardroom power, or a call to arms to encourage fans to start a backlash to wrestle political power and undermine Gunn and Safran?
-Why the hell is the Rock promising more Black Adam, JSA spin-offs and Superman news and boasting how profitable his franchise is if it really isn't? Didn't he get the memo, or does he have support from higher-ups and the film is profitable after all?
-Can WBD even afford to pay out all the contracted parties going forward? It's easy to say they must scrap everything and start over, but you still have to pay people before you do that. If the Batgirl backlash was severe, what do you think is going to happen if the Rock is told there will be no more Black Adam? If the backlash is that severe, will it begin to scare off potential filmmakers from working on DC projects?
Apologies for the long post, but even by looking at this logically, this is a complete and utter mess. Nothing in the last few days is making much sense.
I reckon if WBD really wants to reboot everything, the best course of action is to write off the last remaining DC films for tax returns, get their finances in order and wait for many years before starting a new DC franchise again. Unless something drastic happens next week, keep your expectations low, and it would be wise to not get too invested in the future of anything DC-related going forward.
I was just thinking about how scoopers were saying the Beyond movie turned into the now canceled Batgirl movie. So this would have been different? Also reports of Catwoman coming back (wich may have been in the cards for a while since Michelle Pfeiffer posted about her catwoman whip in 2019.
So either that was a coincidence, or she was in some way involved in that for it to get scrapped for Batgirl (unless the leak was wrong) or they dusted off the script and it got canceled another time.
There is just too much floating around (and frankly has been for quite some time). Im not 100% sure whats real and whats justa adding flames to the DC fire. But im waiting for some official work fom someone (if we ever get that).
At this point I think we need a general leak thread lol
Mark Waid's Dark Crisis: Big Bang one-shot contains some references to the Burtonverse that seemingly contradict earlier info concerning its position in the DC Multiverse. The first thing to mention is that there's a variant cover featuring a Napier Joker goon.
(https://i.postimg.cc/cHx7MT86/1.png)
In the story itself, Barry Allen travels around the DC Multiverse noting the various realities he observes. Among the list of alternate universes he visits is Earth-789.
(https://i.postimg.cc/zBxCdWn7/2.png)
In his description of this reality, Barry writes:
QuoteSuperman and Supergirl are Earth's only powered heroes; Batman's parents killed by the Joker. (Superman '78, Batman '89)
The Arrowverse Crisis on Infinite Earths crossover stated that the Burton films took place on Earth-89. Sam Hamm also Tweeted something about his Batman '89 comic taking place on Earth-89. But now Waid's saying that the Reeve Superman and Keaton Batman both exist on Earth-789. Which means the Bruce Wayne glimpsed in the Superman '78 comic...
(https://i.postimg.cc/YS0zpQpB/wayne.png)
...is in fact a younger version of the Burtonverse Bruce. However, if Michael Shannon is playing the Burtonverse Zod in The Flash, and Sasha Calle is playing Supergirl, then isn't that going to completely contradict all this? Are we to then take it that only the Superman '78 and Batman '89
comics take place on Earth-789, but that the live action films they follow occur in separate realities?
It would have been awesome if they could have got Terence Stamp to play the Burtonverse Zod. Sure, he's in his eighties. But they could have digitally de-aged him for the close-ups and had a stuntman handle his action scenes. I'd rather see Keaton go up against Stamp's Zod than Shannon's version.
The Dark Crisis: Big Bang comic also features a cameo by the Adam West Batman and Cesar Romero Joker. Barry confirms their universe is Earth-66, describing it thus:
QuoteBatman and Robin face exceptionally benign villains (Batman '66)
I wouldn't call villains who use a jack-in-the-box to try catapulting Batman over the sea and into the arms of an exploding octopus "exceptionally benign". "Diabolical scoundrels" is what I'd call them.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Tue, 13 Dec 2022, 14:55
Mark Waid's Dark Crisis: Big Bang one-shot contains some references to the Burtonverse that seemingly contradict earlier info concerning its position in the DC Multiverse.
In the story itself, Barry Allen travels around the DC Multiverse noting the various realities he observes. Among the list of alternate universes he visits is Earth-789.
(https://i.postimg.cc/zBxCdWn7/2.png)
In his description of this reality, Barry writes:
QuoteSuperman and Supergirl are Earth's only powered heroes; Batman's parents killed by the Joker. (Superman '78, Batman '89)
Just to add to Silver's post, I saw this via Twitter. I am assuming it's from the aforementioned one-shot?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fj4wD-KUYAEScHG?format=png&name=900x900)
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Tue, 13 Dec 2022, 14:55QuoteBatman and Robin face exceptionally benign villains (Batman '66)
I wouldn't call villains who use a jack-in-the-box to try catapulting Batman over the sea and into the arms of an exploding octopus "exceptionally benign". "Diabolical scoundrels" is what I'd call them.
Now that you mention it, I always thought that the electric chairs that the Joker tied Batman and Robin to were exceptionally benign.
(https://i.imgur.com/KV7lrWe.jpg)
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Tue, 13 Dec 2022, 14:55
However, if Michael Shannon is playing the Burtonverse Zod in The Flash, and Sasha Calle is playing Supergirl, then isn't that going to completely contradict all this? Are we to then take it that only the Superman '78 and Batman '89 comics take place on Earth-789, but that the live action films they follow occur in separate realities?
Due to the fact we only ever had B89 and BR, it never really sat well with me thinking Keaton shared his world with superhumans. A way I see it being tasteful is via universe leakage. Meaning the Burtonverse is its own thing, and the events of The Flash cause the timelines to merge into one another. If meta humans weren't a thing in the Burtonverse it would be exceptionally high intelligence on Keaton's part to be aware of their existence in other timelines, or the possibility for them to exist, and not being overawed by their sudden presence.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Tue, 13 Dec 2022, 14:55
I wouldn't call villains who use a jack-in-the-box to try catapulting Batman over the sea and into the arms of an exploding octopus "exceptionally benign". "Diabolical scoundrels" is what I'd call them.
Deathtraps are deathtraps. All the villains who captured Batman and Robin fully intended to kill them.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 14 Dec 2022, 06:52
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Tue, 13 Dec 2022, 14:55
However, if Michael Shannon is playing the Burtonverse Zod in The Flash, and Sasha Calle is playing Supergirl, then isn't that going to completely contradict all this? Are we to then take it that only the Superman '78 and Batman '89 comics take place on Earth-789, but that the live action films they follow occur in separate realities?
Due to the fact we only ever had B89 and BR, it never really sat well with me thinking Keaton shared his world with superhumans. A way I see it being tasteful is via universe leakage. Meaning the Burtonverse is its own thing, and the events of The Flash cause the timelines to merge into one another. If meta humans weren't a thing in the Burtonverse it would be exceptionally high intelligence on Keaton's part to be aware of their existence in other timelines, or the possibility for them to exist, and not being overawed by their sudden presence.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Tue, 13 Dec 2022, 14:55
I wouldn't call villains who use a jack-in-the-box to try catapulting Batman over the sea and into the arms of an exploding octopus "exceptionally benign". "Diabolical scoundrels" is what I'd call them.
Deathtraps are deathtraps. All the villains who captured Batman and Robin fully intended to kill them.
I don't know if I've mentioned this before but:
(Spoilers!) The prevailing rumors assert that Keaton's Batman, while having experienced B89 and BR, is a variant. IE Earth -89 (or whatever we call proper Burtonverse) is still technically spinning in some other universe. What has happened is the new damaged timeline (a variant of the DCEU) is drawing upon other parallel worlds to try and fix itself. It takes a variant of a Supergirl we've never met and a Batman we have definitely met and tries to smoosh them together.
Quote from: The Joker on Tue, 13 Dec 2022, 23:21
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Tue, 13 Dec 2022, 14:55
Mark Waid's Dark Crisis: Big Bang one-shot contains some references to the Burtonverse that seemingly contradict earlier info concerning its position in the DC Multiverse.
In the story itself, Barry Allen travels around the DC Multiverse noting the various realities he observes. Among the list of alternate universes he visits is Earth-789.
(https://i.postimg.cc/zBxCdWn7/2.png)
In his description of this reality, Barry writes:
QuoteSuperman and Supergirl are Earth's only powered heroes; Batman's parents killed by the Joker. (Superman '78, Batman '89)
Just to add to Silver's post, I saw this via Twitter. I am assuming it's from the aforementioned one-shot?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fj4wD-KUYAEScHG?format=png&name=900x900)
I saw this cool Earth-789 image posted on Twitter. I'm not sure if it's official or just fan art. Either way, it's excellent.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FjygU3sXkAAgnFl?format=jpg&name=large)
I'm thinking it's best the Cavill cameo is scrapped, even though I wouldn't mind seeing him one last time. We already have one cameo that leads nowhere and I don't see the benefit of adding another. The entire 2023 slate is rendered pointless by default by the new announcement. The real talk will be about what is coming next. If it's a proper scorched Earth reboot led by a new Superman, I'd assume Keaton wouldn't be carrying over. The Flash is it and the Beyond dream is over.
The latest THR article has revealed Henry Cavill AND Gal Gadot's cameos in The Flash have now been cut.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/why-henry-cavill-is-no-longer-superman-1235283791
This must mean that Gadot is surely gone, along with Affleck, whose Aquaman 2 cameo has been cut as well.
Quote from: The Joker on Thu, 4 Aug 2022, 22:51
Warner Brothers Discovery Conference Call With David Zaslav
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Main takeaways.
1. Zaslav says he has a 10 year plan concerning DC Movies.
2. Zaslav is excited for The Flash, Shazam 2, and Black Adam to be released.
3. He considers The Trinity ( Batman Superman and Wonder Woman) some of their big franchises.
4. HBO Max and Discovery will combine into one streaming service. There will be a free version with ads and a paid version summer 2023.
https://variety.com/2022/film/news/batgirl-david-zaslav-warner-bros-discovery-1235333681/
LOL, Zaslav will be very lucky if this shoddy DCU reboot lasts one year, seeing his company is struggling financially and writing off TV and film content as tax write-offs. Hell, he'll be lucky if WBD stays afloat the way it's going at the moment.
The Cavill u-turn has really alienated an overwhelming majority of fans across the entire DC spectrum, not just Snyderverse fans. People online have expressed how dismayed and angry they are over Cavill's mistreatment and there is a strong sense of betrayal and deception. Sadly, the merger only worsened WB's reputation.
If WBD and Gunn think they can fall back on Hamada's original plan to use The Flash to reboot the entire DC franchise, then their DCU plans will certainly fail. There is absolutely no point in releasing that movie and the rest of next year's slate anymore. Unless WBD wants to commit business suicide (if they haven't already) they should write all of those four movies off as tax write-offs and shelve them.
It has now been scooped that Gal Gadot had 2 scenes in the film. One (at the end when Flash fixes the timeline) has been removed. Her other scene I believe takes place in the first act and is still intact. Also word is that she is done as Wonder Woman.
Apparently we're getting a trailer in February. If they're smart they'll showcase Keaton and generate the necessary excitement that way. If word of mouth reactions to the actual film are positive, despite the drama surrounding it, perhaps this isn't the worst way for Keaton to bow out. Three official films, the same as Bale. The DCEU no longer leads anywhere, but solo films can still be enjoyed. Just as we still watch B99 and BR to this day. Even though we won't see him again on film, the version Keaton plays gets a positive ending which is a lot more than some returning icons have received.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 24 Dec 2022, 00:48
Apparently we're getting a trailer in February. If they're smart they'll showcase Keaton and generate the necessary excitement that way. If word of mouth reactions to the actual film are positive, despite the drama surrounding it, perhaps this isn't the worst way for Keaton to bow out. Three official films, the same as Bale. The DCEU no longer leads anywhere, but solo films can still be enjoyed. Just as we still watch B99 and BR to this day. Even though we won't see him again on film, the version Keaton plays gets a positive ending which is a lot more than some returning icons have received.
Well said. I am looking forward regardless
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Sun, 25 Dec 2022, 01:55
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 24 Dec 2022, 00:48
Apparently we're getting a trailer in February. If they're smart they'll showcase Keaton and generate the necessary excitement that way. If word of mouth reactions to the actual film are positive, despite the drama surrounding it, perhaps this isn't the worst way for Keaton to bow out. Three official films, the same as Bale. The DCEU no longer leads anywhere, but solo films can still be enjoyed. Just as we still watch B99 and BR to this day. Even though we won't see him again on film, the version Keaton plays gets a positive ending which is a lot more than some returning icons have received.
Well said. I am looking forward regardless
What I like about the rumored plot is how it handles Bruce's emotional growth. The film I'd compare it to would be Into The Spider-Verse. There, we're introduced to a depressed Peter B Parker who doesn't want to help out Miles. But that period of reluctance doesn't last long. He's soon fighting the good fight and showing the younger generation the wealth of experience that comes with age. That's where The Last Jedi fumbled their arc for Luke - the spiritual dejection dragged on far too long and it didn't allow the hero enough time to satisfyingly shine. As I've said before, as a stand-alone connection to the 1989-1992 era, I think there's going to be enough to fill in the time gap and leave us still thinking fondly of Keaton and his Batman. Variant or otherwise.
If David Zaslav is willing to flush more money down the toilet on marketing for overbudgeted films that are now greatly diminished thanks to this shambolic attempt at a DC reboot, then the man is incompetent and should step down as CEO. He only has himself to blame if and when this films bombs at the box office.***
For God's sake, I've read many comments by casual fans wondering what's even the point of going to see the last four films now. Putting all bias aside for a moment, no business should ever make customers doubt a product they're trying to sell. I thought that would be common business sense, but clearly, that's not the case in Hollyweird.
***BUT - for argument's sake, in the unlikely event that Flash defies expectations and becomes a phenomenal box office hit...then what? Will they still say goodbye to Keaton, Miller, Affleck or Calle, or will they keep some/all of them around for other projects? Because if they do that, then Gunn and co are hypocrites. Cavill and Gadot lose their jobs, but others get to keep theirs, particularly if they're part of the reboot. If that happens then the reboot is a much greater farce than it already is.
Any sort of hope I had to get the excitement back for this film a couple of years ago has been dashed by all of this PR debacle over the last few weeks. Unless something drastic happens at WBD, I'm just going to wait for HD scenes of Keaton and Affleck to get released on YouTube.
Pictures of a Flash toy set featuring a giant bat wing is floating around. It comes with Flash and Batman.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FlOykXdWIAMqXSg?format=jpg&name=medium)
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Fri, 30 Dec 2022, 14:36
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FlOykXdWIAMqXSg?format=jpg&name=medium)
Wouldn't it be nice if The Flash got the same kind of big summer blockbuster multimedia push that the old Burton/Schumacher movies received? Imagine if they released lots of toys, trading cards, a videogame and comic book adaptation, and perhaps even a music album. They could try marketing it as a big event movie, like the superhero films of yesteryear, instead of just the latest entry in an endless stream of homogenised 'content'.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Fri, 30 Dec 2022, 17:20
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Fri, 30 Dec 2022, 14:36
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FlOykXdWIAMqXSg?format=jpg&name=medium)
Wouldn't it be nice if The Flash got the same kind of big summer blockbuster multimedia push that the old Burton/Schumacher movies received? Imagine if they released lots of toys, trading cards, a videogame and comic book adaptation, and perhaps even a music album. They could try marketing it as a big event movie, like the superhero films of yesteryear, instead of just the latest entry in an endless stream of homogenised 'content'.
I miss those days when a movie like this was an event that was promoted so much that it became apart of the fabric of the day itself, when you were able to attach memories and associate history near and around it.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Fri, 30 Dec 2022, 19:21I miss those days when a movie like this was an event that was promoted so much that it became apart of the fabric of the day itself, when you were able to attach memories and associate history near and around it.
Same. The summers of 1989 and 1995 will always be vivid for me for those very reasons. For as good as The Dark Knight might be, 2008 just doesn't compare to either of those years.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Fri, 30 Dec 2022, 19:21I miss those days when a movie like this was an event that was promoted so much that it became apart of the fabric of the day itself, when you were able to attach memories and associate history near and around it.
The Flash is the film I want to see the most next year. I can't imagine thinking a substantially sized new Michael Keaton Batman performance being pointless. It's what makes The Flash an event film and Keaton coming back one last time amplifies that even more. The more you have of something the less valuable it is.
The Flash almost feels like the B89/BR days where a new film could've always been the last (which proved true for the Burton team after Returns) as nothing was ever guaranteed. I'm okay with the Aquaman and Batgirl cameos being scrapped. But not this one - it's where the real meat is. The story is part of the overall DCEU fabric but it still feels different to me. Barry is visiting Keaton, who is an outsider to what has been happening in the other timeline. It's a distinction that I think makes a difference.
As for the Batwing design, I like it. You can see the original '89 design in there with enough modern differentiation. I'm hoping this one goes against the trend of being shot down, but I'm not expecting that to be the case. Especially with the enemies he'll be facing down. Just as long as Batman gets to deliver his brand of justice when the fighting starts.
I wonder what new and old gadgets we'll see
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Sat, 31 Dec 2022, 20:05
I wonder what new and old gadgets we'll see
I'd be interested in seeing some unused gadgets from the Burton era. The handset and tracer could come into play as he's fighting his way to locate Supergirl inside the complex. Perhaps even the time bomb device to blow open the door she's being kept in. That sequence seems to be Keaton's main time to shine in terms of physical confrontation with guards and goons.
From Flash film news (can't find it on their Twitter tho)
(https://i.postimg.cc/xTRZJq3D/Img-2023-01-01-11-55-12.jpg)
Is that official? Cause that looks....not good.
Quote from: Travesty on Mon, 2 Jan 2023, 03:57
Is that official? Cause that looks....not good.
Looks like it. A better quality one
(https://i.postimg.cc/Bb07gVxV/Flbn-Xy7a-UAEPo-TN.jpg)
I don't mind the returns suit being recycled but the way the ears are cut off...
(https://i.postimg.cc/pT45bw0s/Flb-S3-D-WYAUmh-Vs.jpg)
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Mon, 2 Jan 2023, 04:28
Quote from: Travesty on Mon, 2 Jan 2023, 03:57
Is that official? Cause that looks....not good.
Looks like it. A better quality one
(https://i.postimg.cc/Bb07gVxV/Flbn-Xy7a-UAEPo-TN.jpg)
I really like the individual images, but I think the way they've been presented in this flat collage seems half hazard and lazy.
A full and clean version of the leaked Fandom video package is online. It featured this concept art.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FlkTxuJWQAIemK_?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FlkS8OkXwAMwTK3?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
It does seem to confirm the final confrontation.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Flkidz3WYAMfcNe?format=jpg&name=medium)
Courtesy of Flash Film News.
Is there a reason we haven't gotten a yellow utility belt in a while?
I love the yellow oval and I'm happy that it's back. But that belt, I just don't get it.
It's been that way in live action since Forever. I get the feeling the yellow belt garnered a reputation akin to Superman's red briefs as being out of place. In this instance for someone operating in the shadows. I personally would have liked to have seen the original belt again, but alas, it is what it is. I think the suit still looks pretty good though, and more or less how I imagined it to be. Similar to Burton's designs, but different enough to sell more toys.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Mon, 2 Jan 2023, 21:38
I really like the individual images, but I think the way they've been presented in this flat collage seems half hazard and lazy.
Apparently the individual images are official, but the collage itself is not.
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Mon, 2 Jan 2023, 04:28
Quote from: Travesty on Mon, 2 Jan 2023, 03:57
Is that official? Cause that looks....not good.
Looks like it. A better quality one
(https://i.postimg.cc/Bb07gVxV/Flbn-Xy7a-UAEPo-TN.jpg)
Reminds me of his Batman Returns fighting stance.
(https://i.postimg.cc/xCtzpw2p/1.png)
Quote from: The Joker on Tue, 3 Jan 2023, 22:48
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Flkidz3WYAMfcNe?format=jpg&name=medium)
Courtesy of Flash Film News.
I'm more or less happy with the new suit. (MINOR SPOILER) Reports indicate that Keaton is digitally de-aged for most of The Flash so that he'll look like he did in his forties. Had Keaton continued to play the role back in the nineties he would have been 43 when he shot Batman III and 45 when he filmed Batman IV (assuming it was rushed out for 1997 like Batman & Robin was). As others have already observed, this new costume incorporates design elements from the Schumacher and Batman Begins batsuits. It looks like something Keaton could conceivably have worn in Batman III or IV back in the mid-to-late nineties.
However, there are three aspects of the suit about which I'm lukewarm.
Firstly, the open area of the mask surrounding his lower face looks smaller than on his earlier costumes. West, Keaton, Kilmer, Clooney and Pattinson all had larger gaps around their lowers faces, which accentuated the width of their jaw lines. Bale and Affleck had smaller gaps, which didn't look as good IMO. The smaller gaps give Batman's face a more tapered anime look. I've always thought the larger gaps surrounding the lower face looked better. Compare the shape of the jaw gap in the following two pictures to see what I'm talking about.
(https://i.postimg.cc/pTGmJKfg/2.png)
Now there might be a practical reason for this. Perhaps the smaller gap makes it easier for him to turn his head and eliminates the need to glue the mask to his face. Or perhaps it makes it easier to conceal the bone structure of the stunt doubles during the action scenes. The gaps surrounding the lower face were also smaller on the Sonar and Arctic suits than the regular costumes in the Schumacher films.
(https://i.postimg.cc/VvJdG545/3.png)
(https://i.postimg.cc/zv4395P7/4.png)
Maybe it's an optical effect intended to make his neck look more muscular. If so, it certainly worked in the Schumacher movies. Even Clooney, who was a pretty skinny guy, looked bulked up in the Arctic suit. I always liked the overall shape of those costumes and was hoping they'd fashion something similar for Keaton's return.
Which brings me to my second concern.
The shoulders and chest look narrow. The Sonar and Arctic batsuits had massive pectoral and deltoid muscles that made Kilmer and Clooney look almost as big as the Arkham Batman. The shoulders and chest on this new batsuit look smaller. Keaton's always had an ectomorphic body shape, with low fat, a long neck and narrow shoulders. He's got a slim figure that's roughly stick-shaped.
(https://i.postimg.cc/xjNsN53D/5.png)
With the Batman films, the costume department tailored his clothes to have broader shoulders that gave his body shape a more imposing and muscular appearance.
(https://i.postimg.cc/tJbVT9zg/6.png)
In real life Keaton stood around 5'9, weighed about 160lbs and had some basic white-belt-level kickboxing skills. But in universe? I like to think his Bruce stood around 5'11 barefoot and 6'0 in the costume (which would gel with Knox's description of "a six-foot bat in Gotham City"), weighed around 190lbs, was a master of Ninjutsu and was proficient in a dozen other fighting styles. That's how I'm hoping they'll present him in the new movie.
But the new costume, at least in some of these pics, makes him look smaller than he appeared in the earlier films. The suit's probably more accurately tailored to his physique and reflects his real body shape better than the old costumes did. But I don't think the overall shape looks as good, even if it is truer to the actor's underlying figure.
It could just be the way he's standing in some of these pictures. It might look more imposing in the finished film. It's common practice with modern superhero films to digitally enhance the actors' physiques and costumes in postproduction, so the new batsuit might still look amazing in the finished film. We'll see. But for now, compare the widths of the shoulders and chests in the following two images.
(https://i.postimg.cc/cLGYkM33/7.png)
My third qualm concerns the colour of the belt. I'm glad they kept the yellow oval on the chest emblem, but it would have been nice if they'd kept the yellow belt too. Just for the sake of consistency with the earlier batsuits and to preserve that Bronze Age look. But I'm ok with the black belt. I can live with it, and I don't think it looks bad or anything. I can believe Burton might have gone for a black belt like this in his third movie.
But all in all, I do like the new costume. I think my issues concerning the size of the gap around the mouth and overall body shape will be settled once we see how it looks in the finished film. The shape looks better in this picture Keaton himself posted.
(https://preview.redd.it/lyqz4n5d5wj81.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=71e6f379697db6082317e7949c900be506e70095)
And the gap in the mask surrounding his lower face looks fine in this image from Batgirl.
(https://i.postimg.cc/cC7RR0Mv/8.png)
I wish the studio would release an official photograph that presents the suit in a positive light, like they did for Affleck and Pattinson. I don't know why they're holding back on this. We've now seen literally dozens of images of the costume, ranging from low-quality leaked promo art to photos of stunt doubles captured on location. None of those images are particularly clear or flattering. We all know what the suit looks like, so why not just release an official picture to help build hype?
My own interest in the movie is gradually reigniting. The delay combined with all the Ezra stuff last year killed my excitement, but it's starting to build again now. I know some fans are calling this Batman III. I'm calling it Batman V. In light of how poor the Batman '89 comic was, I'm happy to go on considering the Schumacher films part of the canon. That would make this the closest thing we'll get to Batman Unchained, the fifth Burton/Schumacher film that redeems the series. It's the first time we've seen the Burton/Schumacher Batman in live action in over a quarter of a century! That still blows my mind.
I know the movie can't possibly live up to our expectations, and there's a good chance it'll be bad, but nevertheless I'm going to make the most of it and enjoy the ride while it lasts. The fact there's no guaranteed spinoff or sequel, just like in the old days, actually enhances my excitement. If it's a one and done, then so be it.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 4 Jan 2023, 15:02I know the movie can't possibly live up to our expectations, and there's a good chance it'll be bad, but nevertheless I'm going to make the most of it and enjoy the ride while it lasts. The fact there's no guaranteed spinoff or sequel, just like in the old days, actually enhances my excitement. If it's a one and done, then so be it.
The ray of sunshine that I see is that
the Angel Of Death Zaslav has been pretty ruthless about cancelling various projects no matter how much money has been spent on them.
The fact that The Flash has survived (against some pretty overwhelming odds) and that the studio seems to have genuine affection for the movie even tho it's now officially a creative dead end hopefully means it truly is a quality product.
So, I think those who are looking for reasons to become excited about the movie again have good reason for their anticipation.
After news broke that Kilmer was replacing Keaton back in 1994, I truly thought we'd never see Keaton play the part ever again. And yet, here we are.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 4 Jan 2023, 15:02
I'm more or less happy with the new suit. (MINOR SPOILER) Reports indicate that Keaton is digitally de-aged for most of The Flash so that he'll look like he did in his forties. Had Keaton continued to play the role back in the nineties he would have been 43 when he shot Batman III and 45 when he filmed Batman IV (assuming it was rushed out for 1997 like Batman & Robin was). As others have already observed, this new costume incorporates design elements from the Schumacher and Batman Begins batsuits. It looks like something Keaton could conceivably have worn in Batman III or IV back in the mid-to-late nineties.
However, there are three aspects of the suit about which I'm lukewarm.
Firstly, the open area of the mask surrounding his lower face looks smaller than on his earlier costumes. West, Keaton, Kilmer, Clooney and Pattinson all had larger gaps around their lowers faces, which accentuated the width of their jaw lines. Bale and Affleck had smaller gaps, which didn't look as good IMO. The smaller gaps give Batman's face a more tapered anime look. I've always thought the larger gaps surrounding the lower face looked better. Compare the shape of the jaw gap in the following two pictures to see what I'm talking about.
Now there might be a practical reason for this. Perhaps the smaller gap makes it easier for him to turn his head and eliminates the need to glue the mask to his face. Or perhaps it makes it easier to conceal the bone structure of the stunt doubles during the action scenes. The gaps surrounding the lower face were also smaller on the Sonar and Arctic suits than the regular costumes in the Schumacher films.
Maybe it's an optical effect intended to make his neck look more muscular. If so, it certainly worked in the Schumacher movies. Even Clooney, who was a pretty skinny guy, looked bulked up in the Arctic suit. I always liked the overall shape of those costumes and was hoping they'd fashion something similar for Keaton's return.
Which brings me to my second concern.
The shoulders and chest look narrow. The Sonar and Arctic batsuits had massive pectoral and deltoid muscles that made Kilmer and Clooney look almost as big as the Arkham Batman. The shoulders and chest on this new batsuit look smaller. Keaton's always had an ectomorphic body shape, with low fat, a long neck and narrow shoulders. He's got a slim figure that's roughly stick-shaped.
With the Batman films, the costume department tailored his clothes to have broader shoulders that gave his body shape a more imposing and muscular appearance.
In real life Keaton stood around 5'9, weighed about 160lbs and had some basic white-belt-level kickboxing skills. But in universe? I like to think his Bruce stood around 5'11 barefoot and 6'0 in the costume (which would gel with Knox's description of "a six-foot bat in Gotham City"), weighed around 190lbs, was a master of Ninjutsu and was proficient in a dozen other fighting styles. That's how I'm hoping they'll present him in the new movie.
But the new costume, at least in some of these pics, makes him look smaller than he appeared in the earlier films. The suit's probably more accurately tailored to his physique and reflects his real body shape better than the old costumes did. But I don't think the overall shape looks as good, even if it is truer to the actor's underlying figure.
It could just be the way he's standing in some of these pictures. It might look more imposing in the finished film. It's common practice with modern superhero films to digitally enhance the actors' physiques and costumes in postproduction, so the new batsuit might still look amazing in the finished film. We'll see. But for now, compare the widths of the shoulders and chests in the following two images.
My third qualm concerns the colour of the belt. I'm glad they kept the yellow oval on the chest emblem, but it would have been nice if they'd kept the yellow belt too. Just for the sake of consistency with the earlier batsuits and to preserve that Bronze Age look. But I'm ok with the black belt. I can live with it, and I don't think it looks bad or anything. I can believe Burton might have gone for a black belt like this in his third movie.
But all in all, I do like the new costume. I think my issues concerning the size of the gap around the mouth and overall body shape will be settled once we see how it looks in the finished film. The shape looks better in this picture Keaton himself posted.
And the gap in the mask surrounding his lower face looks fine in this image from Batgirl.
I wish the studio would release an official photograph that presents the suit in a positive light, like they did for Affleck and Pattinson. I don't know why they're holding back on this. We've now seen literally dozens of images of the costume, ranging from low-quality leaked promo art to photos of stunt doubles captured on location. None of those images are particularly clear or flattering. We all know what the suit looks like, so why not just release an official picture to help build hype?
My own interest in the movie is gradually reigniting. The delay combined with all the Ezra stuff last year killed my excitement, but it's starting to build again now. I know some fans are calling this Batman III. I'm calling it Batman V. In light of how poor the Batman '89 comic was, I'm happy to go on considering the Schumacher films part of the canon. That would make this the closest thing we'll get to Batman Unchained, the fifth Burton/Schumacher film that redeems the series. It's the first time we've seen the Burton/Schumacher Batman in live action in over a quarter of a century! That still blows my mind.
I know the movie can't possibly live up to our expectations, and there's a good chance it'll be bad, but nevertheless I'm going to make the most of it and enjoy the ride while it lasts. The fact there's no guaranteed spinoff or sequel, just like in the old days, actually enhances my excitement. If it's a one and done, then so be it.
Agreed on almost all counts. Keats' new costume is... not good. I mean, I could accept the overall design, as inelegant as it is, but the mouth opening in the cowl is hideous and really does him a disservice. I'm hoping that clear look at him in the suit is from a costume test and the final design has a more open jawline.
Personally, I don't care for Batman designs that look armored (except some special third act suits like the Sonar), with
Returns' being the sole exception because of how minimalist it is, but the new suit uses the BR suit as a design base and proceeds to overdesign on top of it. Disappointing.
Regarding your spoiler: I'm a spoiler hound and I've not heard anything about him being de-aged for his time in the movie. This is, according even to the recent leaked video, a retired Batman. It's set in the modern day, not the 1990s, and Keaton appears at the end of the movie in a new universe when Barry returns and he's old there.
As for the DCEU being rebooted... to be honest, while there's not much evidence to
deny it, there isn't enough evidence that we're getting a ground-up reboot. We know Superman is getting a new start, but everyone online has just run with that as proof (and seemingly everyone just wants a reboot anyway, so they're happy to read that intention into the Superman news). As of yet, knowing that the ending of
The Flash has, so far, not been changed... we're looking at a fresh start wherever it's needed, but not across the board. It'll be an empty enough slate, given the ending, that they can make the changes they want to. Similar to the ending of every one of DC's various Crisis events. I just can't see them doing a full relaunch right after a movie like Flash that sets up an opportunity to make changes to what people widely dislike (Cavill, Affleck) and throw the popular (Shazam, WW and Aquaman) out with the bath water. Gunn also said of his role as head of the studio that he plans to "keep what works and fix what doesn't."
So, fingers crossed, this won't be the last we see of Keats in the cape and cowl... but at the same time, I shant hold my breath.
Quote from: DocLathropBrown on Wed, 4 Jan 2023, 19:48Regarding your spoiler: I'm a spoiler hound and I've not heard anything about him being de-aged for his time in the movie. This is, according even to the recent leaked video, a retired Batman. It's set in the modern day, not the 1990s, and Keaton appears at the end of the movie in a new universe when Barry returns and he's old there.
You're correct. I've heard conflicting reports on this, and I was recollecting an older one when I wrote that last post. But I've just checked the most recent leaks and they say he appears old. This more mature version of Bat-Keaton is partly based on the Thomas Wayne Flashpoint version, who was also in his senior years. So given the source material, it makes sense for him to be his real age.
(https://i.postimg.cc/dtVWZVLp/flashpoint-bats.png)
Didn't see this around so :
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FlpADlzaUAEVDXc?format=jpg&name=small)
Rumor mill:
Word is that the higher ups at WB are extremely enthusiastic about the Flash, and that Gunn's reboot will be broad but not a blanket, whatever that means. Maybe the Flash becomes the launch pad for a much bigger sweeping change, but you still get to keep Keaton, Shazam, Beetle...and maybe even Erza Miller!
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Wed, 4 Jan 2023, 21:16
Rumor mill:
Word is that the higher ups at WB are extremely enthusiastic about the Flash, and that Gunn's reboot will be broad but not a blanket, whatever that means. Maybe the Flash becomes the launch pad for a much bigger sweeping change, but you still get to keep Keaton, Shazam, Beetle...and maybe even Erza Miller!
Well well well. It opens up a whole new host of possibilities for Batman if The Flash doesn't exactly lead nowhere. The ending has been retained from what I know, and while I believe it could still serve as a conclusion of sorts for Keaton, it obviously leaves room for a continuation. But you would have to think that would have already been mapped out and agreed upon by now given the 10 year plan idea. But then again, maybe not? Perhaps it's still up in the air, and a lot will depend on the film's response. If there's the remote possibility Keaton remains, and Beyond can happen, I'll cling on to that. Because it's now or never.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Wed, 4 Jan 2023, 21:16
Rumor mill:
Word is that the higher ups at WB are extremely enthusiastic about the Flash, and that Gunn's reboot will be broad but not a blanket, whatever that means. Maybe the Flash becomes the launch pad for a much bigger sweeping change, but you still get to keep Keaton, Shazam, Beetle...and maybe even Erza Miller!
Well, well, well... I must be psychic!
...or psycho. The doctor won't tell me yet ???
Quote from: DocLathropBrown on Wed, 4 Jan 2023, 19:48Gunn also said of his role as head of the studio that he plans to "keep what works and fix what doesn't."
At the risk of sounding like someone else... yeah, because that approach has worked great so far.
I haven't seen anything about Keaton being deaged, and I don't think I'd want it. At least not for too long. I'd greatly prefer to have the complete real deal man rather than something that almost equates to being a realistic video game character.
Digging in to spoilers, it makes we wonder what happens with Bruce's long hair? It's meant to be like that when we first meet him inside the kitchen. But not long after he agrees to help and suits back up again. But will he sort out his appearance before then? I think there's an opportunity to do something like Bruce's moustache disappearance in TDK Returns.
All in all, my enthusiasm for the movie remains. Regardless. I think a scorched Earth reboot makes more sense, but that doesn't leave the door open for more Keaton. Because that's really where my mind is right now. Whatever will be will be. In the short term The King returns this year.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 5 Jan 2023, 04:55
Quote from: DocLathropBrown on Wed, 4 Jan 2023, 19:48Gunn also said of his role as head of the studio that he plans to "keep what works and fix what doesn't."
At the risk of sounding like someone else... yeah, because that approach has worked great so far.
To be honest, I don't agree. For me, the DC movies have been on an upward trend since
Suicide Squad. While that movie wasn't really very good, it was at least entertaining on some level, and not a slog like MOS and BVS. The theatrical JL wasn't high art, but it was at least a stripped-down, Saturday morning cartoon adventure (which is the best you could have done given the time frame they gave Whedon to work with). I genuinely loved WW84, even if I see the criticisms. BOP could have been better, but it has a fair amount going for it.
I'm a glass-half-full guy when it comes to movies, I always have been (BF and B&R say "hi"). So it's rare for me to outright dislike a film. I don't even hate MOS, it's just not really rewatchable.
So for me, it's been mostly working. And while I never subscribe to the idea that the ONLY way ahead after rocky moments is to reset (if you did that after
Temple of Doom, you wouldn't have gotten
Last Crusade), I'd gladly take a reset to get rid of the DCEU's biggest mainstream complaints (Cavill's Superman and Affleck's Batman) to avoid losing the rest that is good enough to build on.
Things like this are always going to be subjective. I greatly liked Henry as a person and would have preferred he get the chance to actually play
Superman instead of mope-man... but for the general audience, he never clicked. And it makes business sense to walk away from the baggage he brings. Same with Affleck (whom I also enjoyed), not that he wants to actively continue in the role anyway. BvS really is the largest sticking point in the DCEU for the general audience, as it was such a tremendously high profile dumpster fire... so if you can just leave that baggage at the door, you're on your way.
Certain fans seem to be constantly forgetful that Hollywood is a business. Writers, actors, directors... yes,
they are in it for the art. But the people who bankroll the movies? There needs to be a good rate of return. Otherwise, no more movies. Snyder's tenure didn't actually make WB much (if any) money, and the general audience (ie: not the fanboys, which make up a tiny part of the audience) did not enjoy his movies. Whether the MCU movies are a great work of art is arbitrary to the real world truth: they make money, and even the installments that make less money than others have positive word of mouth and keep the hype of the entire MCU going. A rising tide lifts all ships.
WB's desires for financial and critical success is not a new thing, and it isn't limited to WB. Burton's 2nd Bat movie got a lot of heat, so he didn't get to direct the third. But, onwards and upwards.
Quote from: DocLathropBrown on Wed, 4 Jan 2023, 19:48Gunn also said of his role as head of the studio that he plans to "keep what works and fix what doesn't."
QuoteAt the risk of sounding like someone else... yeah, because that approach has worked great so far.
If the precedents with being the 'guiding hand of the DCEU' are any indication, it's precious that Gunn thinks WBD is going to uphold whatever his approach is the minute they become disillusioned with his performance.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 5 Jan 2023, 05:52
I haven't seen anything about Keaton being deaged, and I don't think I'd want it. At least not for too long. I'd greatly prefer to have the complete real deal man rather than something that almost equates to being a realistic video game character.
Digging in to spoilers, it makes we wonder what happens with Bruce's long hair? It's meant to be like that when we first meet him inside the kitchen. But not long after he agrees to help and suits back up again. But will he sort out his appearance before then? I think there's an opportunity to do something like Bruce's moustache disappearance in TDK Returns.
All in all, my enthusiasm for the movie remains. Regardless. I think a scorched Earth reboot makes more sense, but that doesn't leave the door open for more Keaton. Because that's really where my mind is right now. Whatever will be will be. In the short term The King returns this year.
Maybe we'll get Keaton's meditation into Batman that he wanted to do way back in 89?
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Fri, 6 Jan 2023, 06:05
Maybe we'll get Keaton's meditation into Batman that he wanted to do way back in 89?
They could play it two ways. Something like what you describe above, where we see him seriously pondering the prospect, and once having made a decision mentally and physically preparing himself. Or his reappearance could be abrupt, played as a surprise for both Barry and the audience. Both would work. We'll find out what they've gone with soon enough.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 6 Jan 2023, 13:48
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Fri, 6 Jan 2023, 06:05
Maybe we'll get Keaton's meditation into Batman that he wanted to do way back in 89?
They could play it two ways. Something like what you describe above, where we see him seriously pondering the prospect, and once having made a decision mentally and physically preparing himself. Or his reappearance could be abrupt, played as a surprise for both Barry and the audience. Both would work. We'll find out what they've gone with soon enough.
I am interested to see how he comes back as batman, and I wonder if the scene Keaton talked about being in the spirit of Burton will be the supergirl rescue scene
Depending on the super bowl add, I wouldn't mind seeing him in suit again on the big screen and keeping that footage out of the trailer. But I feel like they're really gonna sell him for this film.
The mini-featurette for "The Flash" has leaked again.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DC_Cinemati...mic_con_promo/
Quote from: The Joker on Fri, 6 Jan 2023, 19:22
The mini-featurette for "The Flash" has leaked again.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DC_Cinemati...mic_con_promo/
Says I can't view community
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Fri, 6 Jan 2023, 19:40
Quote from: The Joker on Fri, 6 Jan 2023, 19:22
The mini-featurette for "The Flash" has leaked again.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DC_Cinemati...mic_con_promo/
Says I can't view community
Link is borked.
Figures.
Check your PM's, fellas.
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Fri, 6 Jan 2023, 17:44
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 6 Jan 2023, 13:48
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Fri, 6 Jan 2023, 06:05
Maybe we'll get Keaton's meditation into Batman that he wanted to do way back in 89?
They could play it two ways. Something like what you describe above, where we see him seriously pondering the prospect, and once having made a decision mentally and physically preparing himself. Or his reappearance could be abrupt, played as a surprise for both Barry and the audience. Both would work. We'll find out what they've gone with soon enough.
I am interested to see how he comes back as batman, and I wonder if the scene Keaton talked about being in the spirit of Burton will be the supergirl rescue scene
Depending on the super bowl add, I wouldn't mind seeing him in suit again on the big screen and keeping that footage out of the trailer. But I feel like they're really gonna sell him for this film.
Not for that scene, but it seems for Batman's initial introduction.
"Without giving anything away, which I can't, basically the first shot, not of the entire movie but let's say the introduction [of Batman], is so good that when we walked on and started talking about a couple of shots and the angles, I went 'whoa, this is big. This is great.' I don't even mean for me. Just the imagery, it's great. And reminiscent, to some degree, of Tim Burton."
I can imagine something along the lines of Bruce standing in front of the vault, opening it up and picking a cowl. Then a transition to the batcave, showing Batman walking from the back (ala the silhouette we see in the trailer). Show Barry looking up to see him standing there looking down. I'd then go for the full suit reveal with swelling music and whatever angle Keaton is referring to. The moment has to be something special and judging from the above quote Keaton feels like they met the moment.
Gotham city in the flash
https://i.postimg.cc/9fxWV6DB/Img-2023-01-08-21-51-52.jpg
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Mon, 9 Jan 2023, 02:57
Gotham city in the flash
https://i.postimg.cc/9fxWV6DB/Img-2023-01-08-21-51-52.jpg
I think that might be Central City rather than Gotham.
(https://images.thedirect.com/media/photos/324542516_3465328590458607_6311363250681375527_n.jpg)
Quote from: The Joker on Fri, 6 Jan 2023, 19:22
The mini-featurette for "The Flash" has leaked again.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DC_Cinemati...mic_con_promo/
Anything showing Keaton?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fm2lVzLXwDcqHIg?format=jpg&name=medium)
Despite the toys having an overall goofy appearance I have to say Dark Flash looks horrifying... in a good way.
That loudmouth John Campea reacted angrily to the rumours surrounding Ezra Miller staying on as the Flash.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tExPzT2cGZY
Well, if WBD can hire that pedophilia enabler James Gunn, nobody should be surprised if do they keep Miller going forward.
Quote from: KeatonisBatman on Thu, 19 Jan 2023, 06:30
Anything showing Keaton?
Just images already posted in the thread. Nothing extravagant.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnK8509WYAAMlc9?format=jpg&name=small)
Is that a new build/model for the Batmobile? Because it sort of reminds me of the early Nineties Kenner Batmobile.
I'm not expecting the Burtonmobile to feature in an action sequence (the new Batwing seems to be serving that function), but I'm still hoping we get a good look at it. We know for sure that Bruce had a tarp covering it for an unspecified period of time, and Barry pulls it off. In any case it'll be good to see it on screen again for whatever duration it ends up being.
Will probly pick this up and the returns suit flash
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnVFNNcWAAE4YUX?format=jpg&name=large)
That Keaton pop is fascinating. It appears to be in the '89 suit, but it has the new black Flash utility belt...
I sure hope that means he might wear more than one suit in the movie, perhaps ending up in my much preferred '89 duds.
The image is just a placeholder apparently, and the B89 logo isn't worn in the film. But I guess it could be seen during a suit lineup in the cave.
So I was right in the fact that The Flash is going to allow Gunn to soft-reboot the films while keeping things (all existing actors sans Cavill and Affleck are expected to stay), what I figured would happen has come to pass: apparently Keaton will not be sticking around. Worse than that it they're introducing Damien Wayne, which saps my enthusiasm as I hate that character lol
Indeed, the slate confirms that Keaton returns just this once. He's not going to rubbish a product to diminish the box office, but Gunn does call the movie one of the best in the genre. If we believe that at least our man goes out with a bang. A bigger bang than the Batgirl film, which has been deemed unreleasable.
As for the new DCU Batman, being titled The Brave and the Bold, I'm very inclined to be on board - even if casting another Batman makes me somewhat weary. I'm after more detail but I'm liking the idea. An established Bat family with presumably a lighter tone is something people here have been asking for. With so many Batman films now the way something stands out is with a different premise, and something that taps into characters and mythos the general public has no idea about. I think going with Damian could also be to counter whatever Reeves is planning, if he wants to focus on Dick Grayson. Either way, Robin is a character I've been eager to see back on film.
Yeah, the idea of bringing in Damien so early is odd, plus I'm not the biggest fan of him...so we'll see. But it does sound like we'll be getting a Batman in a more fantastical setting, so I'm down. We'll just have to see what it looks like. I'm just happy that Matt Reeves' universe is separate. Again, we'll just have to wait and see.
Other extended Bat family members are going to appear, as per Peter Safran. He says they feel these characters have been left out of Batman stories in the cinema for too long. In that case I'd be up for Nightwing, Batgirl and others popping up. I think the intention here is to have a middle career Batman that is fully established without pushing him so close to the end, ala Batfleck. I'm hoping for a portrayal that evokes Adam West's wisdom, even though I'm doubtful we'll get something that light. Stories like The Return of Bruce Wayne would be amazing to see in live action, and I even proposed it for Batfleck. I agree about waiting to see how it all develops though, especially with casting, but I can see the upsides of going this direction. Especially in contrast to what Matt Reeves is doing.
James Gunn Says There Are "Possibilities" for Michael Keaton's Batman
https://collider.com/michael-keaton-batman-james-gunn-comments/
Not much, but something to think about
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Wed, 1 Feb 2023, 04:12
James Gunn Says There Are "Possibilities" for Michael Keaton's Batman
I don't want Michael Keaton to work with that creep, tbh.
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Wed, 1 Feb 2023, 04:12
James Gunn Says There Are "Possibilities" for Michael Keaton's Batman
https://collider.com/michael-keaton-batman-james-gunn-comments/
Not much, but something to think about
At this stage in the game I see that as a token comment. But it does effectively confirm the ending of The Flash, which concludes with Keaton alive. I'm looking forward to the Superbowl trailer. It's well over two minutes long, so fingers crossed there's a decent reveal of Batman in there.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 1 Feb 2023, 06:42
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Wed, 1 Feb 2023, 04:12
James Gunn Says There Are "Possibilities" for Michael Keaton's Batman
https://collider.com/michael-keaton-batman-james-gunn-comments/
Not much, but something to think about
At this stage in the game I see that as a token comment. But it does effectively confirm the ending of The Flash, which concludes with Keaton alive. I'm looking forward to the Superbowl trailer. It's well over two minutes long, so fingers crossed there's a decent reveal of Batman in there.
100% agree, just something to chew on. Though to be honest it doesn't fix the too many Batman problem
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Wed, 1 Feb 2023, 06:06
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Wed, 1 Feb 2023, 04:12
James Gunn Says There Are "Possibilities" for Michael Keaton's Batman
I don't want Michael Keaton to work with that creep, tbh.
There are a lot of people I don't like seeing other work with (people who continually worked with Bryan Singer for example) but at the end of the day it's up to them and up to us to choose to support it or not.
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Wed, 1 Feb 2023, 16:23
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 1 Feb 2023, 06:42
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Wed, 1 Feb 2023, 04:12
James Gunn Says There Are "Possibilities" for Michael Keaton's Batman
https://collider.com/michael-keaton-batman-james-gunn-comments/
Not much, but something to think about
At this stage in the game I see that as a token comment. But it does effectively confirm the ending of The Flash, which concludes with Keaton alive. I'm looking forward to the Superbowl trailer. It's well over two minutes long, so fingers crossed there's a decent reveal of Batman in there.
100% agree, just something to chew on. Though to be honest it doesn't fix the too many Batman problem
If it is a problem, time will fix it. A respectable following has developed with Reeves and that section of the fanbase would not have reacted kindly to either a cancellation or change in course. Two more films isn't that much in the grand scheme of things, and after that the DCU Batman carries on alone. Which makes casting vitally important. Whoever gets that job will likely have the film appearance record, assuming the plan is adhered to. I'd go with someone mature but young enough to play the role long term, which makes you wonder how long Keaton could have committed to the franchise and in what capacity.
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Wed, 1 Feb 2023, 16:23
There are a lot of people I don't like seeing other work with (people who continually worked with Bryan Singer for example) but at the end of the day it's up to them and up to us to choose to support it or not.
I don't watch Bryan Singer's stuff for reasons like this. Fair call about it's up to us to decide whether to support it or not. You know what my stance is by now, so I won't repeat it.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 9 Dec 2022, 13:05
I realize that you're one of the #RestoreTheSnyderverse true believers. But it looks like that ship has sailed and we should all get comfortable with that reality.
I'm revisiting this again, because if you were expecting a fair, hard reboot, then you're not going to like this at all:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fn7R-U6XwAAxznR?format=jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fn5Z5pSXkAcEBoD?format=jpg)
This is nearly the same idea as Walter Hamada had. Kicking out certain actors they don't like (Cavill, Fisher, Affleck) while keeping existing characters they want to fuel their egos i.e. Miller, Momoa, and Davis, to create an incoherent, messy timeline. Only difference is instead of having an asshole executive in charge, we get another asshole executive in charge with links to convicted and accused pedophiles.
May this farce of a reboot fall flat on its face. (https://www.batman-online.com/forum/Themes/default/images/post/thumbdown.gif)
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Thu, 2 Feb 2023, 13:40I'm revisiting this again, because if you were expecting a fair, hard reboot, then you're not going to like this at all:
To be fair to me, my hope for a hard reboot lasted almost five minutes. Didn't take very long for news to come out that Gunn was going to implement the same basic cafeteria approach that Hamada et. al. attempted as well.
Call me cynical. But I imagine that his results will be similar to his predecessors.
The Authority movie, the Booster Gold show and the Swamp Thing movie are the only announced things that sound like they have some kind of potential to me. I'm willing to give those projects a day in court. Because they do sound interesting to me.
But the Snyderverse is smithereens. There's not much anyone can do about that anymore.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Thu, 2 Feb 2023, 13:40
This is nearly the same idea as Walter Hamada had. Kicking out certain actors they don't like (Cavill, Fisher, Affleck) while keeping existing characters they want to fuel their egos i.e. Miller, Momoa, and Davis, to create an incoherent, messy timeline.
That's pretty much it.
Not that I would imagine a hard reboot would have realistically fixed anything, especially when you still have the rot creatively running the show behind the scenes (along with other factors as well; Warners Bros historically in unto itself with the panic button always ready to be pressed like in a Ren and Stimpy cartoon, the appetite for capestuff noticeably cooling down in recent years, falling into the same trap like Disney's Marvel and pulling from comic material from the past 15 years rather than the decades worth of material prior, Tom King being an exceptional influencer on Supergirl apparently, ect) That's just an automatic fail right from the jump.
What we're left with, after you factor in Gunn's nepotism projects being rolled into the fold, is just another, as TLF says, piecemeal universe that's not at all unlike what Hamada was already previously doing. Only "The Suicide Squad" guy is playing captain for the moment. There's really no other way to interpret what's been said thus far.
Really brilliant stuff.
Not lauding the idea of a reboot so soon, however I do think Flashpoint provides the perfect impetus for a reboot. At face value, having a reboot that still retains some continuity seems counterintuitive. But then I remembered how that idea was used to great effect in the aftermath of Crisis on Infinite Earths. I'll readily admit I'm biased because the early years of post-Crisis Batman were some of my favorite Batman stories of all time. And this all just spun out of an excuse to refresh all the comic lines, but selectively keep everything that they liked and worked. It also presented an opportunity to bring new creatives onboard.
Despite being a strong concept, some of the early decisions aren't really working. To start, I think a "Crisis" should have been the conclusion of this first phase of DC movies; it feels incomplete with all that Snyder alluded to in Batman v Superman.
Also, with the aforementioned reboots, you would have an in-universe excuse to recast characters that weren't working well, while keeping those that were. Keeping Miller and ditching Cavill is just laughable.
I'm also still concerned about how this would impact Keaton's legacy as Batman. Here we have cinema icon Michael Keaton playing second fiddle to one of the most unlikable actors still getting screen time. I'm sorry but it's been taxing to separate the art from the artist (as much as I keep hearing that the movie is that good).
Quote from: Slash Man on Fri, 3 Feb 2023, 03:46
I'm also still concerned about how this would impact Keaton's legacy as Batman. Here we have cinema icon Michael Keaton playing second fiddle to one of the most unlikable actors still getting screen time. I'm sorry but it's been taxing to separate the art from the artist (as much as I keep hearing that the movie is that good).
You raise an interesting matter of perspective. Who is really getting the majority of the attention here? Yes, Miller has been behaving like an animal and that garnered headlines. But have those headlines sunk in to the public consciousness in a deep way? I'm not sure. There's so much raw sewage being pumped out these days that a lot of people are numb to the nonsense or have already tuned out. But regardless, the stories are out there and will always be associated with the production's history.
However, the movie is called The Flash but the buzz has almost exclusively been about Keaton returning after 30 years. He has effectively commandeered another character's film - regardless of whatever his runtime ends up being. I don't think his legacy is at risk. I'm sensing a feeling of completion and celebration, and I get the feeling that will be evident when the trailer hits this month.
I just wonder what the average "normie" thinks when considering the marketing of the Flash. Do they care about a powerhouse veteran actor returning to a beloved role, or are they more concerned with the general spectacle of a new superhero film starring fresh faces? Love it or hate it, that general audience is what's going to make or break the movie - us Keaton fans can only take it so far.
The Batgirl film overall hurt my confidence. Back in the day, Keaton was extremely selective with his roles, turning down a literal fortune because he believed Batman Forever was not up to the same standard as the previous films. Flash forward to Batgirl and the story goes that he agreed to appear in a movie that was so bad, releasing it would hurt its studio's brand beyond its potential monetary gains. I know that's probably an oversimplification of things, and it's probably more about him having fun nowadays than living up to being a global phenomenon.
Quote from: Slash Man on Fri, 3 Feb 2023, 20:05
The Batgirl film overall hurt my confidence. Back in the day, Keaton was extremely selective with his roles, turning down a literal fortune because he believed Batman Forever was not up to the same standard as the previous films. Flash forward to Batgirl and the story goes that he agreed to appear in a movie that was so bad, releasing it would hurt its studio's brand beyond its potential monetary gains. I know that's probably an oversimplification of things, and it's probably more about him having fun nowadays than living up to being a global phenomenon.
If we're talking exclusively about creative merit, it seems the initial pitch for The Flash is what first attracted Keaton back in the first place. If the movie is as good as claimed, his judgement was sound. As for the supposed declining quality that came afterwards with Batgirl, I put that down to the reality of signing up to a long term appearance contact. At the time, The Flash was not a one and done prospect. If Keaton wanted to come back, it had to be via a package. Each different project had its own director with their own vision, and the end product of Batgirl reflects on those creators rather than Keaton. If your name is down for a sizeable number of films your control is going to be reduced to some degree. You're a bit piece in a machine.
Quote from: Slash Man on Fri, 3 Feb 2023, 20:05
I just wonder what the average "normie" thinks when considering the marketing of the Flash. Do they care about a powerhouse veteran actor returning to a beloved role, or are they more concerned with the general spectacle of a new superhero film starring fresh faces? Love it or hate it, that general audience is what's going to make or break the movie - us Keaton fans can only take it so far.
The marketing of the actual content hasn't started yet. Those questions can begin to be answered when the publicity tour hits. What drives up a box office is repeat business and word of mouth, and not many films have that special appeal to me. Content like Black Adam is serviceable but ultimately forgettable, and that was reflected in its end tally. Money is a precious commodity to WB right now, and money can be burned unnecessarily in promotion. But if I were running things, I'd go hard in that direction. There's no point believing your movie is good but not having it seen by as many people as possible. Your actions need to match your words.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 2 Feb 2023, 17:46
The Authority movie, the Booster Gold show and the Swamp Thing movie are the only announced things that sound like they have some kind of potential to me. I'm willing to give those projects a day in court. Because they do sound interesting to me.
I find it very hard to believe most of these announcements - such as these - are going to get made when the studio is currently struggling with a huge debt. In fact, naming a dozen of these productions come across as a huge bluff. Not even the MCU put all of their eggs in one basket when they started Phase One - they waited to determine how the first Iron Man turned out before announcing a sequel, Captain America, Thor and Avengers. Their habit of announcing projects like an assembly line only began once the brand was established and extremely lucrative. This DCU nonsense doesn't even have that luxury. Besides, all it takes is for one movie to fail and it's back to the drawing board again.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 2 Feb 2023, 17:46
But the Snyderverse is smithereens. There's not much anyone can do about that anymore.
What I'm about to copy and paste from this article may not bring the Snyderverse back, but it's something to consider if you're troubled by the red flags surrounding Gunn. It was written when TSS came out, but it's just as applicable to the future.
At the end of the day though, the decision is yours.
Quote
Should you watch "The Suicide Squad" this weekend? It depends of the kind of person that you want to contribute to, and what kind of behavior you want to enable. In an era where victims take decades to come out due to fear of retaliation (retaliation that is happening right now to negative criticism of The Suicide Squad) it might take years for him to see any accountability.
Only time will tell.
https://r-alejandro-mendez.medium.com/the-uncomfortable-friendship-of-james-gunn-and-huston-huddleston-c1e920258516
Quote from: Slash Man on Fri, 3 Feb 2023, 03:46
Also, with the aforementioned reboots, you would have an in-universe excuse to recast characters that weren't working well, while keeping those that were. Keeping Miller and ditching Cavill is just laughable.
This is made even worse when Gunn announced he is sticking by Miller in the press the other day, spinning PR crap about how he needs support. What can I say? Creepy people support each other.
As it's said before, Gunn is hijacking DC based on nepotism. I read earlier today that his brother Sean is expected to play the Weasel again. Apparently, he played him in TSS. And of course, his wife plays Emelia Harcourt, who is outrageously getting more screen time than Cavill, Affleck and Fisher.
Quote from: Slash Man on Fri, 3 Feb 2023, 03:46
I'm also still concerned about how this would impact Keaton's legacy as Batman. Here we have cinema icon Michael Keaton playing second fiddle to one of the most unlikable actors still getting screen time. I'm sorry but it's been taxing to separate the art from the artist (as much as I keep hearing that the movie is that good).
I find it irritating that a chance to get a proper Keaton Batman follow-up, whether it would be a sequel to BR or a Beyond spin-off, got squandered for a Flash film. Which let's face it, they're using Keaton and Affleck as pawns for their own half-assed reboot agendas. Worse, as you correctly pointed out, he is playing second fiddle to another actor who has gained such enormous notoriety.
As far as the movie being "that good"? How many times have we heard shills hyping something up and it's nowhere near what it's cracked up to be? In this case, the bitter taste of alienating the fanbase will be miraculous for this movie to overcome. Not that it would deserve such success.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sun, 5 Feb 2023, 12:09
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 2 Feb 2023, 17:46
The Authority movie, the Booster Gold show and the Swamp Thing movie are the only announced things that sound like they have some kind of potential to me. I'm willing to give those projects a day in court. Because they do sound interesting to me.
I find it very hard to believe most of these announcements - such as these - are going to get made when the studio is currently struggling with a huge debt. In fact, naming a dozen of these productions come across as a huge bluff. Not even the MCU put all of their eggs in one basket when they started Phase One - they waited to determine how the first Iron Man turned out before announcing a sequel, Captain America, Thor and Avengers. Their habit of announcing projects like an assembly line only began once the brand was established and extremely lucrative. This DCU nonsense doesn't even have that luxury. Besides, all it takes is for one movie to fail and it's back to the drawing board again.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 2 Feb 2023, 17:46
But the Snyderverse is smithereens. There's not much anyone can do about that anymore.
What I'm about to copy and paste from this article may not bring the Snyderverse back, but it's something to consider if you're troubled by the red flags surrounding Gunn. It was written when TSS came out, but it's just as applicable to the future.
At the end of the day though, the decision is yours.
Quote
Should you watch "The Suicide Squad" this weekend? It depends of the kind of person that you want to contribute to, and what kind of behavior you want to enable. In an era where victims take decades to come out due to fear of retaliation (retaliation that is happening right now to negative criticism of The Suicide Squad) it might take years for him to see any accountability.
Only time will tell.
https://r-alejandro-mendez.medium.com/the-uncomfortable-friendship-of-james-gunn-and-huston-huddleston-c1e920258516
Correction, the first Iron Man was done my Paramount and was a sleeper hit. Iron Man 2 is when all the MCU stuff started to form, to the point John Favreau would get constant notes regarding the MCU and it would get increasingly frustrating (hence one reason he did not do 3)
Word around the campfire is that Gunn has deleted the ending component which featured Keaton. I'm guessing this is the sequence where he emerges from the car, meets Barry and asks him what happened. Because the film no longer leads in to Batgirl I can see the logic in this decision, but alas I'm still disappointed and a tad nervous. Especially if there wasn't another scene shot after Keaton's presumed to have died in battle. That's not the note I'd want his tenure to end on.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 9 Feb 2023, 12:12
Word around the campfire is that Gunn has deleted the ending component which featured Keaton. I'm guessing this is the sequence where he emerges from the car, meets Barry and asks him what happened. Because the film no longer leads in to Batgirl I can see the logic in this decision, but alas I'm still disappointed and a tad nervous. Especially if there wasn't another scene shot after Keaton's presumed to have died in battle. That's not the note I'd want his tenure to end on.
This is my worry as well. I don't want the last I see of the character to be an ignominious fate. Frankly, though I've never met this Supergirl, I don't want that for her either. I hope they can put together some b-roll or some minor reshoots to convey that these characters are okay now in their own universe, especially since I'm still convinced Flash will be very successful riding on the back of Keaton and I can see the character being in demand again. Say what you want about the previous DC film administration, they understood Keaton coming back would wet appetites. I can see people being now more interested in the 'multiverse' than the DCU now. That's where most of the good stuff is anyway.
Grace Randolph has stuck her head up to claim a former Batman makes an appearance at the end of The Flash, and could even take the ongoing DCU role. She's hinting it's either Kilmer, Clooney or Bale. If she's credible, I can't see it being Kilmer due to his voice issues. Bale has his loyalty to Nolan, and I wouldn't want his trilogy expanded upon honestly. It's fine the way it is. I'm guessing Clooney, especially if The Brave and The Bold is a lighter, more fantastical style film. Absolutely out of left field bizarre to think that could happen. But the thought of Clooney, if it's him, getting a shot at redemption would have my interest.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 10 Feb 2023, 07:36
Grace Randolph has stuck her head up to claim a former Batman makes an appearance at the end of The Flash, and could even take the ongoing DCU role. She's hinting it's either Kilmer, Clooney or Bale. If she's credible, I can't see it being Kilmer due to his voice issues. Bale has his loyalty to Nolan, and I wouldn't want his trilogy expanded upon honestly. It's fine the way it is. I'm guessing Clooney, especially if The Brave and The Bold is a lighter, more fantastical style film. Absolutely out of left field bizarre to think that could happen. But the thought of Clooney, if it's him, getting a shot at redemption would have my interest.
Bringing 61 year old Clooney back seems like a gigantic risk. I like B&R these days. But Clooney isn't highly regarded in the role. This could easily become fodder for jokes and memes. Whoever is making this decision had better know EXACTLY what they're doing.
As to Bale, I always got the idea that he'd at least consider coming back. I never thought he closed the door permanently on playing the character. But I can't imagine him being open to playing a TBATB version of Batman.
I remind everyone that Randolph has been wrong in the past.
She has, and that is at the front of my mind. Grace is putting her reputation on the line here again to make such a big claim. Apparently there's serious movement for Affleck to direct The Brave and the Bold, and it's worth noting that he and Clooney are good friends. Could that be a good enough hook to convince them both to do it? Quite possibly.
If Clooney ever came back (what an impossible thought) B&R's spirit of adventure would probably remain, but there'd have to big attempts to differentiate from the parodied B&R elements, ala Batman Triumphant. That's where Affleck would come in handy. That all said, if any of this is remotely credible, watch it turn out to be Bale. There's no denying there's a huge marketing hook there.
New poster
(https://i.postimg.cc/sDmnNn9j/329046208-681166897121777-5536505980132238069-n.jpg)
I'm not blown away but it's pretty good for a teaser. The 'worlds collide' tagline makes it clear Barry has come to Keaton's domain for the majority of the time, to the point the poster effectively promotes this as a Batman film. We have the explanation as to where the batwing is housed, too.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 10 Feb 2023, 13:26
I remind everyone that Randolph has been wrong in the past.
Yeah, not the most reliable person by any stretch, and all that jazz.
To bat the breeze on Kilmer/Clooney/Bale returning ....
Bale? If this notion holds any water, probably the most likely out of the three. As it would get all the Dark Knight Trilogy hardcores jumping for joy that their Batman is back. Unfortunately, that means the Nolanverse 'grounded' approach would, I assume, retroactively be folded into this universe to some extent (unless they are going for some weird mish-mash of styles and that's a
really questionable choice when concerning Bale's inclusion), and thus, we'll possibly have not one but two grounded takes of Batman running concurrently to one another? Ok .....
Clooney? That's kinda dicey. I can see Clooney being receptive to the idea of redeeming his stint as Batman in the eyes of many fans, but any excitement his theoretical announcement may bring will eventually cool down, and he just doesn't have that hardcore base like that of Keaton/Bale. With Morrison's Batman run being an influence evidently, I can also see pushing Clooney to the background fairly quick as a mentor or whatever (similarly to what was going to happen with Keaton's Batman post "The Flash") in order to get that Dick Grayson as Batman with the brat Robin up and running.
Kilmer? It's really just too damn bad about Val's health issues. Personally, had it not been for that regrettable circumstance, I would be championing Kilmer over the other two right now (even though, like Clooney, I would be cognizant of Kilmer's age making him rather limited in the part). Kilmer, to his credit, was a pretty good Batman following Keaton, and though a lot of people like to clump "Batman Forever" and "Batman & Robin" together, I still think there are many people who have much more nostalgia for "Batman Forever" that the summer of '95, than the swing and miss of '97 and B&R. A healthy Val Kilmer returning as Batman, with the subsequent announcement of BF finally getting a officially released Schumacher/Director's cut? Thus opening the window for fans who are too quickly dismissive of Schumacher's take, to give a second look at BF and especially Val's Batman? Well ... that would have been a pretty savvy way to introduce/reacquaint fans to Val in a fairly cost efficient manner.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 11 Feb 2023, 01:44the poster effectively promotes this as a Batman film.
It is telling that Batman's colors and symbol are more visually prominent than the supposed main character of the film.
Quote from: The Joker on Sat, 11 Feb 2023, 01:59A healthy Val Kilmer returning as Batman, with the subsequent announcement of BF finally getting a officially released Schumacher/Director's cut? Thus opening the window for fans who are too quickly dismissive of Schumacher's take, to give a second look at BF and especially Val's Batman? Well ... that would have been a pretty savvy way to introduce/reacquaint fans to Val in a fairly cost efficient manner.
It is one of the great cinematic tragedies that Kilmer only played the character once. He would be more fondly remembered if he could've had two at-bats in two relatively dark Batman films. I would even suggest that his fan following would rival Keaton's.
The aesthetic is very much B89 meets Batman Begins. I'm glad to see it given we haven't had a filmic cave underneath Wayne Manor in recent times. I don't mind variation (the BvS lake house, and TB's railway station), but you can't beat going the traditional route.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 11 Feb 2023, 03:22
It is one of the great cinematic tragedies that Kilmer only played the character once. He would be more fondly remembered if he could've had two at-bats in two relatively dark Batman films. I would even suggest that his fan following would rival Keaton's.
Indeed. Like a lot of other people, Keaton was "my" Batman at a very early age. However, Val Kilmer ended up proving to be a excellent choice after Keaton decided to exit the franchise, and I wholeheartedly believe it was Val as Batman, that played at the very least a factor in BF's remarkable success in '95.
Not gonna lie, as a kid, seeing Val in both "Batman Forever", and then later in 1995, Michael Mann's "Heat" (yes I saw both in the theater, and somehow got no hassle buying a ticket for "Heat" ... yeah the trailer and tv spots made it look interesting but make no mistake about it.. Val being in the movie was decidedly the hook for me as kid), Val, in my mind, was just one of the coolest guys around.
Bill Ramey is hinting the previous Batman actor returning story is true, and it's not Bale. Based on one of his Twitter replies it's Clooney, and "Technically, it's the same #Batman on film in '89/'92, '95, and '97..." Interesting indeed if we get a Schumacherverse continuation, which could actually make sense if they're making a point the Keaton/Schumacher timelines are seperate, and/or there's variants or time travel damage shenanigans that split the original timeline.
Not long now until the new trailer drops. Let's hope it contains some good shots of Keaton in the suit.
Meanwhile, here's a cool fan poster someone shared on social media.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FotIbZNWcAEPWpv?format=jpg&name=medium)
No matter what happens with Keaton in the future – if he gets Batman Beyond or if this is his final adventure in the cape – at least he'll have gotten to lead his own mini Justice League in this movie. That's more than most cinematic Batmen get.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 11 Feb 2023, 21:49
Bill Ramey is hinting the previous Batman actor returning story is true, and it's not Bale. Based on one of his Twitter replies it's Clooney, and "Technically, it's the same #Batman on film in '89/'92, '95, and '97..." Interesting indeed if we get a Schumacherverse continuation, which could actually make sense if they're making a point the Keaton/Schumacher timelines are seperate, and/or there's variants or time travel damage shenanigans that split the original timeline.
Would that make him the Brave and the bold Batman and that Schumacher would be the continuation? That would be quite the twist. I'd be really surprised Clooney would come back
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Sat, 11 Feb 2023, 22:03
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 11 Feb 2023, 21:49
Bill Ramey is hinting the previous Batman actor returning story is true, and it's not Bale. Based on one of his Twitter replies it's Clooney, and "Technically, it's the same #Batman on film in '89/'92, '95, and '97..." Interesting indeed if we get a Schumacherverse continuation, which could actually make sense if they're making a point the Keaton/Schumacher timelines are seperate, and/or there's variants or time travel damage shenanigans that split the original timeline.
Would that make him the Brave and the bold Batman and that Schumacher would be the continuation? That would be quite the twist. I'd be really surprised Clooney would come back
If we're believing the talk, a cameo has been filmed for The Flash and they're hoping the past Batman continues afterwards, but a deal has yet to be signed. Imagine a scenario where Chris O'Donnell makes appearances again as Nightwing. The Schumacher Batman would certainly be old enough to have a fully established family around him now. I mean, by 1997 he already had Robin and Batgirl. Clooney is 61 and Keaton, who alresdy came back for The Flash, is 71. They do have at least a decade or so to play with there age wise if they want an older style Batman, but not as old as Keaton is now.
https://twitter.com/JamesGunn/status/1624545526472646657?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1624545526472646657%7Ctwgr%5E3cce3fb134f68398d5ec4b79e5b0c63f6a5708fe%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redditmedia.com%2Fmediaembed%2F1100rro%3Fresponsive%3Dtrueis_nightmode%3Dfalse
XDRO1D
·
Feb 11, 2023
@xdroid2022
Replying to @JamesGunn
Is it true you're casting George Clooney as the new main DCU Batman?
James Gunn
@JamesGunn
Absolutely not
That's hilarious. Grace is still saying "one of those three" appears in The Flash, and is keeping her ongoing DCU role claim open by citing her past use of the word 'potentially'. But Gunn saying absolutely not is definitive.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sat, 11 Feb 2023, 22:02
No matter what happens with Keaton in the future – if he gets Batman Beyond or if this is his final adventure in the cape – at least he'll have gotten to lead his own mini Justice League in this movie. That's more than most cinematic Batmen get.
That's certainly one way to look at it.
Found these on Twitter
(https://i.postimg.cc/fbBCn9By/Foy0ric-Xs-AIO0-QX.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/02DLgVmN/Fov-Nwjl-WYAEsi2g.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FozWXj6XwAAPH-F?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FozWXj4WcAYl6n6?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FozWXj5XgAMc6rh?format=jpg&name=large)
Character poster!
(https://i.postimg.cc/8Pb1LXkL/received-1899592760420418.jpg)
If the final poster doesn't meet my expectations I'm happy to put the one above alongside those from the Burton era to make a trilogy.
Don't know how to imbed twitter vids, but this is Composer, Benjamin Wallfisch briefly channeling Danny Elfman for The Flash.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1635791290951499781
EDIT: It is believed that this is the piece of music that will accompany the "Yeah, I'm Batman" scene.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Wed, 15 Mar 2023, 14:32
Don't know how to imbed twitter vids, but this is Composer, Benjamin Wallfisch briefly channeling Danny Elfman for The Flash.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1635791290951499781
EDIT: It is believed that this is the piece of music that will accompany the "Yeah, I'm Batman" scene.
I'd say right on the money
(https://i.postimg.cc/1504nxLK/Untitled-1.jpg)
More. Score!
https://twitter.com/i/status/1636036689486389256
I love how sharp it is, how funereal and heroic it sounds at the same time.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Wed, 15 Mar 2023, 18:51
More. Score!
https://twitter.com/i/status/1636036689486389256
I love how sharp it is, how funereal and heroic it sounds at the same time.
Yeah, that's promising. Batman has had a lot of good music over the years but nothing has come close to what Elfman created.
Tom Cruise has seen The Flash and apparently he loves it.
QuoteIn late February, according to several sources, Cruise had a meeting with Warner Bros. Discovery CEO David Zaslav, during which the mogul mentioned how great the movie was. Cruise, curiosity piqued, then asked to see it. Zaslav acquiesced to the request, and a copy of the movie was sent over to Cruise.
But, as an insider says, this was no casual messengering. A Warners employee brought the movie to Cruise's home in Beverly Hills and stayed until the actor finished watching The Flash. It is unclear on what format Cruise watched it, whether it was digital or film. When Cruise finished, the movie was given back to the messenger, who returned it to the studio.
Cruise was so taken by what he saw that soon after, he reached out to Muschietti. It was a call out of the blue for the director. Cruise is said to have raved about the movie, saying something to the effect that Flash is "everything you want in a movie" and "this is the kind of movie we need now," according to insiders.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/tom-cruise-has-seen-the-flash-movie-1235355326/
If anyone knows how to deliver a satisfying blockbuster these days, it's Cruise. His endorsement is heartening.
That whole story about Tom Cruise being shown The Flash movie and loving it sounds awfully fishy. THR claimed he was shown the movie in his Beverley Hills home, but these articles say he moved out of there in 2016 and he now lives in Florida.
https://www.latimes.com/business/realestate/hot-property/la-fi-hotprop-tom-cruise-home-sale-20160608-snap-story.html
https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/look-inside-top-gun-maverick-star-tom-cruises-florida-penthouse-near-church-scientology-headquarters.html/
Someone is lying.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 18 Mar 2023, 13:46
That whole story about Tom Cruise being shown The Flash movie and loving it sounds awfully fishy. THR claimed he was shown the movie in his Beverley Hills home, but these articles say he moved out of there in 2016 and he now lives in Florida.
https://www.latimes.com/business/realestate/hot-property/la-fi-hotprop-tom-cruise-home-sale-20160608-snap-story.html
https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/look-inside-top-gun-maverick-star-tom-cruises-florida-penthouse-near-church-scientology-headquarters.html/
Someone is lying.
Its quite possible he had multiple homes, not too uncommon. However, hopefully someone will ask him on tape.
Tom Cruise has a net worth of $600 million. It's reasonable to assume that he has the financial ability to own multiple homes. Personally, I find it very hard to believe that Cruise wouldn't have at least one residence in or near Los Angeles.
I'm a Cruiser and his endorsement means a lot in terms of selling a film the studio seems to be very proud about, but nonetheless with apprehension about Ezra Miller. The Flash without the hook of Keaton would not have me interested. But the hook is there and it sets it apart. There are too many superhero movies out there being made, and a lot of them are full of pathetic, unnatural dialogue and cheesy acting. They need to pull way back with the number of these they're making. You've seen one you've seen them all, and forget them a day later. Case in point the new Shazam film and its poor opening numbers. I'm all about justifying your placement on that big screen and generating hype for your product. The Flash could be that.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 18 Mar 2023, 23:24
I'm a Cruiser and his endorsement means a lot in terms of selling a film the studio seems to be very proud about, but nonetheless with apprehension about Ezra Miller. The Flash without the hook of Keaton would not have me interested. But the hook is there and it sets it apart. There are too many superhero movies out there being made, and a lot of them are full of pathetic, unnatural dialogue and cheesy acting. They need to pull way back with the number of these they're making. You've seen one you've seen them all, and forget them a day later. Case in point the new Shazam film and its poor opening numbers. I'm all about justifying your placement on that big screen and generating hype for your product. The Flash could be that.
I miss when we got a few ever few years and they were a big deal. I agree, we have way too many
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Sat, 18 Mar 2023, 14:09
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 18 Mar 2023, 13:46
That whole story about Tom Cruise being shown The Flash movie and loving it sounds awfully fishy. THR claimed he was shown the movie in his Beverley Hills home, but these articles say he moved out of there in 2016 and he now lives in Florida.
https://www.latimes.com/business/realestate/hot-property/la-fi-hotprop-tom-cruise-home-sale-20160608-snap-story.html
https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/look-inside-top-gun-maverick-star-tom-cruises-florida-penthouse-near-church-scientology-headquarters.html/
Someone is lying.
Its quite possible he had multiple homes, not too uncommon. However, hopefully someone will ask him on tape.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 18 Mar 2023, 16:38
Tom Cruise has a net worth of $600 million. It's reasonable to assume that he has the financial ability to own multiple homes. Personally, I find it very hard to believe that Cruise wouldn't have at least one residence in or near Los Angeles.
Okay, but if we're simply relying on insiders for info, one claimed Cruise wanted out of Beverly Hills and Los Angeles in general at the time of that sale, presumably because he wanted to live near the Church of Scientology in Florida, as it was already implied in the second link in my last post.
https://people.com/movies/tom-cruise-moving-to-florida-after-selling-beverly-hills-mansion/
While it may be possible that Cruise might've had a change of heart and bought another property in Beverly Hills that nobody knows about, the other thing that's not tracking is Cruise is currently filming the latest Mission: Impossible, which had been filming for a year. Cruise was even reportedly staying in an Italian hotel on February 25th to shoot more scenes.
https://variety.com/2023/film/global/tom-cruise-mission-impossible-8-filming-location-italy-aircraft-carrier-1235540776/
Yet THR alleges he watched The Flash in his supposed BH home in late February. I would've believed THR if they reported Cruise somehow took a break before the 25th and went back to the US to see the movie before going to Italy to resume filming for MI, but it didn't. Nor did that article even mention anything about MI. I'm not even convinced that he took a break in late February because he reportedly delayed filming earlier in the month to attend Prince Charles's coronation.
Nonetheless, if there's new info or Cruise himself confirms this screening took place, I'll happily stand corrected. But these details aren't lining, and pardon my cynicism, this feels like a distraction due to Shazam's opening weekend not looking great. Maybe Affleck's comments about not wanting anything to do with Gunn's DCU is another reason for this dubious story.
After all, WBD was sued by the state of Ohio for allegedly misleading investors during the whole merger. I wouldn't necessarily believe a single word they're saying unless it's coming from the actors themselves.
The Flash is done. Work has completed, and in just over a month's time it will screen at Cinemacon. Be prepared for spoilers!
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Tue, 21 Mar 2023, 16:19
The Flash is done. Work has completed, and in just over a month's time it will screen at Cinemacon. Be prepared for spoilers!
Hurrah! :)
QuoteRated PG-13 for sequences of violence and action, some strong language and partial nudity.
https://www.filmratings.com/search?filmTitle=The%20Flash
I hope the 'partial nudity' isn't Ezra.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 22 Mar 2023, 11:24
QuoteRated PG-13 for sequences of violence and action, some strong language and partial nudity.
https://www.filmratings.com/search?filmTitle=The%20Flash
I hope the 'partial nudity' isn't Ezra.
(https://media.tenor.com/Gbnib9PB0xUAAAAM/laughing-laugh.gif)
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Sat, 18 Mar 2023, 23:37
I miss when we got a few ever few years and they were a big deal. I agree, we have way too many
The closest thing I got to experiencing something like that was probably Spider-Man in 2002. The Dark Knight was huge as well but that was released in a year that had 5 comic book movies. When Spider-Man came out it was the only big super hero movie of that year and it felt like an event. I wasn't around to experience the Batmania of 1989, but the hype for Spider-Man has to be the closest comparison point I have for big marketing of a superhero movie. Spider-Man was everywhere in the lead up to that movie and there was a palpable sense of excitement amongst people. I've always said that Spider-Man and The Dark Knight are the only superhero films from my lifetime that felt like events upon release.
Even with Endgame I didn't get that same palpable sense of excitement, but then again marketing a superhero movie now is much different than the early 2000's.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 18 Mar 2023, 23:24
I'm a Cruiser and his endorsement means a lot in terms of selling a film the studio seems to be very proud about, but nonetheless with apprehension about Ezra Miller. The Flash without the hook of Keaton would not have me interested. But the hook is there and it sets it apart. There are too many superhero movies out there being made, and a lot of them are full of pathetic, unnatural dialogue and cheesy acting. They need to pull way back with the number of these they're making. You've seen one you've seen them all, and forget them a day later. Case in point the new Shazam film and its poor opening numbers. I'm all about justifying your placement on that big screen and generating hype for your product. The Flash could be that.
Completely agree on this. A lot of superhero films have been released over the past 10 years but how many of them were great movies? I'd argue for only 3 (Days of Future Past, Logan, and Spider-Man Into the Spiderverse) which is ridiculous to me. Why are superhero film on the level of The Dark Knight, and Spider-Man 2 still a rarity? With the amount of money that these films make there should be multiple films on that level coming out every year. Tbh Marvel and DC need to drop this cinematic universe bs because it's getting in the way of this genre evolving. The MCU in particular has proven that they're more interested in quantity over quality.
Quote from: BatmanFurst on Wed, 22 Mar 2023, 15:00Why are superhero film on the level of The Dark Knight, and Spider-Man 2 still a rarity?
You raise an interesting point here.
At the end of Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back, a bunch of characters from previous View Askew movies make cameo appearances. One of them is the fanboy guy who says something like "Why can't we ever get a GOOD comic book movie?!"
That was very much the attitude fans had back in the Eighties and Nineties. For every B89 that came along (of which there were very few), you'd get three or four Tank Girls or Barb Wires. Utterly crap comic book (or related) movies were the norm rather than the exception. Even when good comic book-adjacent films came along like 1994's The Shadow (which isn't comic books exactly but c'mon), #1 it was still a bit flawed and #2 the public mostly disregarded it.
To bring it closer to home, I can contextualize Batman & Robin NOW. I rather enjoy it TODAY. But the jury is in. B&R was the total opposite of what the hardcore comic book fans wanted back in the Nineties.
Or something else, X-Men: First Class is generally respected. But it just doesn't get the same level of admiration as Days Of Future Past. And yet, if X-Men: First Class had been made back in the Nineties, you don't want to know how awful it would've been. There were too many ways for Hollywood to utterly ruin the material. FC is a better film for being made in 2011 than it would've been had it been made in 1996.
To sum it all up, I understand your frustration. But the overall/mean/average quality level of comic book films has risen
immensely over the decades. Yes, TDK and Spider-Man 2 remain outliers for their greatness. But these days, crap comic book films like 1997's Spawn are less frequent. Plus, they quickly get shown the door. Look at stuff like Morbius, for example. Average stuff like First Class is (or was) closer to the norm.
That's progress.
Quote from: BatmanFurst on Wed, 22 Mar 2023, 15:00
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 18 Mar 2023, 23:24
I'm a Cruiser and his endorsement means a lot in terms of selling a film the studio seems to be very proud about, but nonetheless with apprehension about Ezra Miller. The Flash without the hook of Keaton would not have me interested. But the hook is there and it sets it apart. There are too many superhero movies out there being made, and a lot of them are full of pathetic, unnatural dialogue and cheesy acting. They need to pull way back with the number of these they're making. You've seen one you've seen them all, and forget them a day later. Case in point the new Shazam film and its poor opening numbers. I'm all about justifying your placement on that big screen and generating hype for your product. The Flash could be that.
Completely agree on this. A lot of superhero films have been released over the past 10 years but how many of them were great movies? I'd argue for only 3 (Days of Future Past, Logan, and Spider-Man Into the Spiderverse) which is ridiculous to me. Why are superhero film on the level of The Dark Knight, and Spider-Man 2 still a rarity? With the amount of money that these films make there should be multiple films on that level coming out every year. Tbh Marvel and DC need to drop this cinematic universe bs because it's getting in the way of this genre evolving. The MCU in particular has proven that they're more interested in quantity over quality.
I think it comes down to the nature of shared universes. When characters are introduced there's an expectation that we will continue to see them no matter what, so scripts need to be written - and those scripts are not born out of love. If the magnitude of comic book movies being released was greatly reduced, and restrictions were placed on how many can be made per year, you'd find the quality would gradually improve. This material should be special and illicit excitement, and that hasn't been the case for a while now. The best CB movies have something important to say and reflect the culture and times in which it is made. It's apparent to me Spider-Man 2 isn't going to be topped in terms of connecting to a superhero's turmoil. That type of emotional realism has been hard to find as the push has been for cheap jokes that work to impair the overall experience.
I added the music used in the "I'm Batman" scene from twitter, to the video from the trailer
https://streamable.com/ogtpsx
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Fri, 24 Mar 2023, 13:47
I added the music used in the "I'm Batman" scene from twitter, to the video from the trailer
https://streamable.com/p5m9hv
That's seems much closer than what I've seen others do on twitter. I'm sure the film edit will be similar.
Lee Bermejo artwork for "The Flash".
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrxQqmVX0AUzXRz?format=jpg&name=900x900)
I guess Bermejo cast Jean Claude Van Damme as the Flash in that painting?
Jokes aside, I adore Lee Bermejo's work. The guy is a one of a kind talent.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Fri, 24 Mar 2023, 20:46
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Fri, 24 Mar 2023, 13:47
I added the music used in the "I'm Batman" scene from twitter, to the video from the trailer
https://streamable.com/p5m9hv
That's seems much closer than what I've seen others do on twitter. I'm sure the film edit will be similar.
Adding the music, especially ebbing under the surface during the pause when Batman answers, does a lot to help the way the scene lands. I'd be happy with the film cut resembling something like this.
I tried to match it up with the few seconds of footage you can see in the twitter video. It's hard and I dont think it's 100% timed but I ended up going more towards a feel. Can anyone share the ones people made on twitter? I'd be interesed to see that
also the link expired so I fixed the inital post and for here as well. I did spruce it up a bit
https://streamable.com/ogtpsx
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 25 Mar 2023, 05:09
I guess Bermejo cast Jean Claude Van Damme as the Flash in that painting?
Jokes aside, I adore Lee Bermejo's work. The guy is a one of a kind talent.
Agreed, and JCVD movie art by Bermejo would be pretty dope. Would love to see his rendition of "Bloodsport", or "Universal Soldier". Or hell even JCVD vs penguin-suited mascot from "Sudden Death" would look badass by Bermejo.
Somthing I just thought about. Supermans camero in Back Adam still used the Williams theme (ala Justice League Theatrical). Since Affleck had Elfmans theme (and Keaton is in the flash), I wonder what they'll do.
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Sat, 8 Apr 2023, 17:15
Somthing I just thought about. Supermans camero in Back Adam still used the Williams theme (ala Justice League Theatrical). Since Affleck had Elfmans theme (and Keaton is in the flash), I wonder what they'll do.
Keaton must have the Elfman theme, and it seems we're safe on that front. Affleck's introduction scene with the Batcycle and Flying Fox is brief, so there won't be much opportunity to use a theme for him there. But whatever they use it has to be something different.
Prepare to gasp.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtiQWIvacAA9sbH?format=jpg&name=small)
That looks good. Where was that from? Is that a screen grab from a new trailer? I can't find it.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Wed, 12 Apr 2023, 18:55
Prepare to gasp.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtiQWIvacAA9sbH?format=jpg&name=small)
He looks like The Dark Knight Returns Bruce. Which is apt, given that this is the closet we'll get to a Burtonverse TDKR.
(https://i.postimg.cc/HLPm2txr/tdkr-bruce.png)
Quote from: Travesty on Thu, 13 Apr 2023, 15:48
That looks good. Where was that from? Is that a screen grab from a new trailer? I can't find it.
It's from a TV spot that also shows Batman gliding from the sky during the desert battle, with the Batwing spinning out of control above. Seems like it gets shot down...again.
I mean, that would be on brand for the Batwing.
Frankly, I'd be disappointed if the Batwing
wasn't shot down. At this point, Batman's inability to bring his aircraft back in one piece is a cinematic tradition.
Batman: The Movie – Riddler shoots down the Batcopter.
Batman '89 – Joker shoots down the Batwing.
Batman Forever – Riddler shoots down the Batwing.
The Dark Knight Rises – Bane's bomb destroys the Bat.
Here's the latest TV spot for anyone who hasn't seen it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-65zhLs7DuI
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nAbFEGZOm1U&pp=ygUNZmxhc2ggdHYgc3BvdA%3D%3D
I'm not going to lie, but those trailers are really getting me excited for this movie.
Here is a better version of the one I posted above.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJ7rOmSS4aI
(https://i.postimg.cc/GpYNSJ2X/moon.png)
Keaton diving from the Batwing without a parachute is already far cooler than anything Jake Skywalker did. Roll on April 25th. :)
Okay this stuff is super spoilery.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-VIpuO3eqg
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ftr2QREXoAIx61o?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ftr2QRFX0AAhmck?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ftr2QQmX0AAmO-W?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ftr2QQpWYAAzjyH?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
My boy aint gonna make it. :( :( :( :(
Well, that was surely true, when Keaton was supposed to stick around in the new universe. Him dying in that timeline was going to be forgiven by his surprise return at the end.
However, now that things have changed... I really doubt they'll leave that as his ultimate fate. That'd be too downbeat. If Keaton still dies in the fight with Zod, then either the ending on that new earth really hasn't been changed, or they'll have some kind of coda to show that Barry managed to save him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbMHlyY-1yg
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtsNT1-X0AA05Wt?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtsNT1dWYAUVeWd?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtsNT1eWYAkEn1l?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
Affleck looks great in that shot.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Fri, 14 Apr 2023, 15:41
(https://i.postimg.cc/GpYNSJ2X/moon.png)
Keaton diving from the Batwing without a parachute is already far cooler than anything Jake Skywalker did. Roll on April 25th. :)
It's already a great moment to put on Keaton's resume. It captures what makes Batman so endearing. He's a human being but acts above those limitations through sheer confidence. I'm wondering where this takes place in the film - perhaps the infiltration of the complex to rescue Supergirl? The scene may transition to morning as it progresses.
Quote from: DocLathropBrown on Fri, 14 Apr 2023, 16:08
Well, that was surely true, when Keaton was supposed to stick around in the new universe. Him dying in that timeline was going to be forgiven by his surprise return at the end.
However, now that things have changed... I really doubt they'll leave that as his ultimate fate. That'd be too downbeat. If Keaton still dies in the fight with Zod, then either the ending on that new earth really hasn't been changed, or they'll have some kind of coda to show that Barry managed to save him.
If there isn't a coda my enjoyment of the film is going to suffer. They better have done something. Because I like everything else I'm seeing.
Awesome LIFE SIZE theatre display!
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtuBRbXXsAArRHk?format=jpg&name=large)
I've been thinking about how some of the cameos might work during the sequence where the Flash in running between different realities. For the Schumacher Batman, they could recreate the shot of Batman and Robin (and maybe Batgirl) running towards the camera in front of the Bat-Signal while Goldenthal's theme plays in the background. That way they could use doubles without having to digitally de-age the original actors, since they'd all be in silhouette anyway.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5e/da/f9/5edaf986d1113f84c7a7ce3dce60792a.png)
Suddenly the Flash could run across the screen in front of the Dynamic Duo, forcing them to skid to a halt. Maybe they could loop in Clooney's "This is why Superman works alone" line.
Something similar could be done with the sixties Batman, with West and Ward shown walking up a wall as the Flash sprints up beside them or pops out of a window. They could then have Ward say something like "Holy scarlet speedster!" or "Holy fastest man alive!"
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-gRfPcR201us/XDT0rotr9_I/AAAAAAADaGw/Ao5w0Z-CwAo0uvovuXAskIMqHeKq1gFjQCLcBGAs/s1600/bat-climb-cyril%2Blord.JPG)
They'd have to pick an equally iconic image for the Reeve Superman. The obvious one would be the shot of him smiling into the camera as he flies around the Earth.
(https://www.herogohome.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Superman78FinalSmile.jpg)
But I don't see how the Flash could fit into that. Not unless they just added a red line zooming across the Earth's surface in the background. Maybe they could use the scene where Superman holds up the railways track for the train to pass, and have Barry run over him as well.
We could get legitimate spoilers next week about the new ending as the movie is being screened at CinemaCon. I've seen a comment that Keaton has a farewell scene with Barry, but is that the "you saved me" line in the desert when Batman is wounded or something new they've filmed? I'm seriously hoping for the latter. The response to the test screenings is still positive, so I have to think people are walking out upbeat and not depressed or angry.
Just dawned on me, but do you think this film will be more like a Back to the Future of comic films (both in beat and tone), where Batman *keaton* finds his
spark again, and is the science guy with a few loose bolts (ala doc) and the wacky adventures of Marty of save his family (a mix of both ZS Flash and Burton Flash)?
I dont think it will be too depressing (given this is the post JL DCEU) but if there going for some comedy, I feel like a back to the future tone would work so much better than the MCUish tone the later DC films tried to emulate.
(https://i.postimg.cc/YqZr4r6R/bttf2poster.jpg)
(https://scontent.fbhx2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/340860261_552055903717400_3158632674093447789_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=urZ5XhccSTgAX9YKQZI&_nc_ht=scontent.fbhx2-1.fna&oh=00_AfAc4lOqYxlx_Dz8eOpgEQ2qT2BZ9lBv2Co5Y6fqtAhWRw&oe=644868F4)
I hope someone makes an updated version of this poster with Keaton in his new costume.
I'm avoiding spoilers, but for those who have read the leaks are you still excited for the film?
Ha, I love the Back to 1989 poster. 8)
Quote from: BatmanFurst on Mon, 24 Apr 2023, 22:35
I'm avoiding spoilers, but for those who have read the leaks are you still excited for the film?
I'm waiting for more details to emerge after the CinemaCon screening, but yes I'm still excited. It does appear that Keaton will have three good Batman film appearances under his belt and go out on top. After the circus surrounding Ezra and the scrapping of Batgirl, he deserves the enduring consensus around his Batman to be positive - and to justify his decision to return in the first place.
Quote from: BatmanFurst on Mon, 24 Apr 2023, 22:35
I'm avoiding spoilers, but for those who have read the leaks are you still excited for the film?
I am. I've wanted a third Keaton Batman movie since I was a kid and I still can't quite believe we're getting it. I'm sure I'll have my share of criticisms, but for now I'm cautiously optimistic. We might never get the Burton Batman trilogy we wanted, but at least now we'll have a proper Keaton trilogy.
(https://i.postimg.cc/G3JQyhfr/keaton-bat-trilogy.png)
The studio is screening The Flash today and allowing people to post their reactions. The fact they're doing this now, months before the movie's release, indicates they're confident of its quality. Let's hope their confidence isn't misplaced.
A new trailer is also coming out today, so everyone get ready for some analysis.
Placing The Flash alongside B89 and Returns through pure satisfaction and quality, and not just an obligation as they all feature Keaton, would be the biggest respect I could give it. I'm hoping that's how I feel. I think the movie must be good to some degree, but also see the strategy in going this early with a screening and reactions. The studio have had a series of big flops and they're keen to generate hype and momentum. Let's see if it works.
The buzz is that there will be little if any PR restrictions after the screening. They know they have a winner and want people to talk about it.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FukmFxNWIAA914O?format=jpg&name=large)
New trailer at noon PT
The burning Batwing in the background evokes a strong sense of finality. As if this is his final battle.
(https://i.postimg.cc/KzffZHBC/1.png)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fukp6w7XwAspfY0?format=jpg&name=4096x4096) :(
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FulRVSDWIAMzrq7?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FulSy4AakAAfbKj?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FulSUvkWcAMpLQK?format=png&name=900x900)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FulSUKCagAA_-TN?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
Not feeling those new posters. But at least we have the other two (Barry standing in the batcave and the one sheet of Batman). Those are solid and have a more professional sheen in comparison to the others.
As for the trailer, the Batwing descending and unfolding from above is spectacular. It gives a lot of mystery of power, like it's straight out of a video game but in a good way. Whenever Batman is on screen the film is bringing the goods.
Okay, spoilers inbound. I have the entire film synopsis. It should be first noted that the film is getting rave reviews. Best DC film in 20 years type of talk.
Here is the movie:
This lines up a lot with previous leaks.
The film begins with a bank robbery. The thieves use a bomb detonation at a hospital as a distraction. Batfleck engages the men while Flash saves the people at the hospital.
After which we learn that Barry Allen gained his powers in 2013 while investigating his mother's murder. He was also present in Metropolis saving civilians on the day that the world was introduced to the Superman.
Barry tries unsuccessfully to get his father out of prison. Bruce Wayne picks him up from the courthouse and they have a heart to heart about it. Barry touches the subject of time travel, having already achieved it to a small degree in ZSJL. Bruce warns against it, but Barry does it.
In 2001, Barry steals a can of tomatoes before Nora Allen can make purchase, so she has to go to another store and thus she avoids her own murder.
Barry attempts to return to his own time, but is thwarted by a Demon Speedster. He awakens in 2013 where he finds his mother alive and well as does he find his hopeless layabout 2013 self.
Barry ensures that his doppelganger is in the right place during the thunderstorm so that he can get the speed powers, however he ends up transferring his powers to 2013 Barry. (This is why we see the 'white ZSJL' powers being used by 2013 Flash in the trailers)
SURRENDER message hails the coming of Zod, however there are no meta humans around. The only hero who ever existed is Batman, whom they visit at Wayne Manor.
Barry comes to understand that separate/different timelines were tangled together. Keaton Bruce doesn't want to help, but gets a pep-talk and he's back. He uses the Batcomputer to find out about any metas that might be around. He finds out that Superman was captured years ago and has been held at a Siberian base.
Under the cover of night the trio launch a rescue operation. They parachute down and infiltrate. When things get harry, Batman must protect his charges and engage in serious combat.
They find Kara-Zor-El, who has lived her life as a captive. Still having to fight out of it, the group is abandoned by Kara once the sun rises and she energizes. All hope is lost until she returns and save the day.
She agrees to help while Barry tries to get his powers back. When Batman fails trying to electrocute Barry, Supergirl flies him to the heavens and he gets cool yellow speedster powers.
The group confronts Zod at his World engine. The timeline has to reset over and over because some variation of death always occurs. Batman and/or Supergirl always die.
From here its the Future Dark Flash ending who vanishes when 2013 Barry sacrifices himself. Barry sets it all right and we gets lots of cameos in the speedforce (Clooney, Carter, Reeve, West, Nicolas Cage, yes as Superman) until Barry goes home and meets Batman, whose face we do not see. Hence the vague ending we're hearing about.
There is a post credit scene that was NOT shown. No Keaton or Supergirl coda, they're just booted out of existence presumably to their own native timelines. Troubling since I hear that (unsurprisingly) they steal the show.
End of spoilers.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Wed, 26 Apr 2023, 14:28
The group confronts Zod at his World engine. The timeline has to reset over and over because some variation of death always occurs. Batman and/or Supergirl always die.
From here its the Future Dark Flash ending who vanishes when 2013 Barry sacrifices himself. Barry sets it all right and we gets lots of cameos in the speedforce (Clooney, Carter, Reeve, West, Nicolas Cage, yes as Superman) until Barry goes home and meets Batman, whose face we do not see. Hence the vague ending we're hearing about.
There is a post credit scene that was NOT shown. No Keaton or Supergirl coda, they're just booted out of existence presumably to their own native timelines. Troubling since I hear that (unsurprisingly) they steal the show.
Hmm. I'm disappointed there isn't a coda for Batman or Supergirl to outright show they're alive back in their timelines. It seems the best we can do is assume that's where they are, as Barry restores things to how they should be. The desert battle wouldn't be allowed to reach any true conclusion as it's simply erased from happening in the first place. I think they could bring Keaton back in the future if they really wanted to.
Used the eraser tool on my phone. Really hope we get a varient poster like this
(https://i.postimg.cc/xdzMs9Kq/The-Flash-Movie-Poster-01-3.jpg)
It does make a cool phone wallpaper tho
Also
https://www.superherohype.com/movies/532818-michael-shannon-got-zack-snyders-blessing-before-returning-as-zod
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Wed, 26 Apr 2023, 14:28Barry comes to understand that separate/different timelines were tangled together.
[...]
Barry sets it all right and we gets lots of cameos in the speedforce (Clooney, Carter, Reeve, West, Nicolas Cage, yes as Superman) until Barry goes home and meets Batman, whose face we do not see. Hence the vague ending we're hearing about.
If this is true, then The Flash does not occur in the Burtonverse but rather a composite universe assembled from different realities. Several people on this site already predicted as much. Sure, it's the Burtonverse Batman, but he's now slipped into another world.
This begs the question of who is the Burtonverse Superman? Not the Superman of the composite universe in which this movie takes place, but the original
pure Burtonverse comprising B89 and BR. If Cage's Superman is now officially part of the DC Multiverse, then it should really be him. Furthermore, if he really does appear in The Flash then they should go ahead and make Superman Lives as an animated film, or at least as a comic.
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Thu, 27 Apr 2023, 15:16
Used the eraser tool on my phone. Really hope we get a varient poster like this
(https://i.postimg.cc/xdzMs9Kq/The-Flash-Movie-Poster-01-3.jpg)
It does make a cool phone wallpaper tho
That does look cool. Good job editing it. :)
I still will always prefer to think that Christopher Reeve is the Superman of the Burtonverse.
...or that Keaton is the Batman of the Donnerverse. As you prefer.
Quote from: DocLathropBrown on Sat, 29 Apr 2023, 18:58
I still will always prefer to think that Christopher Reeve is the Superman of the Burtonverse.
...or that Keaton is the Batman of the Donnerverse. As you prefer.
Interesting take. Why is that?
My preferred take is that a Superman of any kind didn't exist in the Burtonverse.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sat, 29 Apr 2023, 18:09
If this is true, then The Flash does not occur in the Burtonverse but rather a composite universe assembled from different realities. Several people on this site already predicted as much. Sure, it's the Burtonverse Batman, but he's now slipped into another world.
Yeah, the more I read about this, the more I think that this really sounds like something right out of "Infinite Crisis", where Alexander Luthor Junior was creating composite realities by mashing different worlds together, in a vain attempt to find what he concluded would be the 'perfect' DCU Earth.
QuoteThis begs the question of who is the Burtonverse Superman? Not the Superman of the composite universe in which this movie takes place, but the original pure Burtonverse comprising B89 and BR. If Cage's Superman is now officially part of the DC Multiverse, then it should really be him. Furthermore, if he really does appear in The Flash then they should go ahead and make Superman Lives as an animated film, or at least as a comic.
I kinda like to think of Batman (especially if we're talking pure Burtonverse that's not in any way affiliated with Schumacher's continuity), to be a completely unique individual with no peers to speak of. No Superman. No Wonder Woman. No Justice League. Nothing. It's just Batman, and Batman alone. Kinda like how "Spider-Man No Way Home" confirmed Tobey's Spider-Man didn't have a shared universe with the Avengers and others (evidently a Dr. Strange exists in the Ramiverse, but it's never made clear if he's just a world world renowned surgeon or a actual Master of magic and mystic arts). Maybe it's just me being nostalgic for the
pre shared universe days with cinematic DC and Marvel movies, but that's how I honestly grew up thinking about the subject. Had we got Burton's "SL" in '98 or '99, a link between Burton's Batman and Burton's Superman would be a whole lot stronger for sure, but as is, I'm fairly complacent in thinking of Cage's Superman cameo in the film being a individual completely unique to
his world.
Oh, and if we ever get the news that Burton's "Superman Lives" is going to be made as a animated feature, that would be
phenomenal!
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 29 Apr 2023, 22:11
Quote from: DocLathropBrown on Sat, 29 Apr 2023, 18:58
I still will always prefer to think that Christopher Reeve is the Superman of the Burtonverse.
...or that Keaton is the Batman of the Donnerverse. As you prefer.
Interesting take. Why is that?
Both are such pure and classic takes on each character that, to me, they would pair so perfectly. Keaton is as dark and mysterious as Reeve is bright and trustworthy.
Shame to think that Reeve pitched the idea of a cameo in '89 to WB and they said no. Not that I think it would have fit well into the body of the movie, but Reeve seemed game, and that's so cool. Had WB listened to him, they could have beaten Marvel to the cinematic universe game decades in advance.
A JL movie with Reeve, Keaton, John Wesley Shipp and Lynda Carter... To think what could have been!
As suspected, we'll see Batman and Supergirl being killed in the final battle in different ways. Perhaps in one loop we see Batman impaled, in another blown up or neck snapped. That's going to be brutal to see as a fan of this incarnation. I think Emperor Joker comes close to this scenario, in which Batman is killed repeatedly but he doesn't actually stay dead.
My guess based on the details is that we see Keaton moments from dying again in another loop, and he has a conversation with Barry who expresses his plan to reverse the mess he created. Keaton says something along the lines of it doesn't matter if he succeeds or not from his POV, because "you already brought me back."
The desert battle seems to be like a Knightmare-esque timeline endpoint that doesn't lead anywhere good. It has to be avoided or erased. It can't be allowed to reach its conclusion because Zod's plan would probably succeed, as the events of Man of Steel are inverted. Perhaps when things are set right again the Keaton Batman can vaguely remember what happened in the other timeline (like in Emperor Joker). And those memories are enough for him to return to crime fighting as the emotional growth he experienced through Barry's arrival still means something.
Quote from: DocLathropBrown on Sun, 30 Apr 2023, 02:19Both are such pure and classic takes on each character that, to me, they would pair so perfectly. Keaton is as dark and mysterious as Reeve is bright and trustworthy.
Shame to think that Reeve pitched the idea of a cameo in '89 to WB and they said no. Not that I think it would have fit well into the body of the movie, but Reeve seemed game, and that's so cool. Had WB listened to him, they could have beaten Marvel to the cinematic universe game decades in advance.
A JL movie with Reeve, Keaton, John Wesley Shipp and Lynda Carter... To think what could have been!
Fair enough. I always thought Dean Cain's Superman, Schumacher's Batman and Shipp's Flash could comfortably exist in the same universe with one another. When Lois & Clark made reference to Batman, I assumed it was Schumacher's. And when Schumacher's Batman made reference to Superman, I assumed it was Cain's. And Shipp's Flash is largely compatible with both of them.
Quote from: The Joker on Sun, 30 Apr 2023, 01:42I kinda like to think of Batman (especially if we're talking pure Burtonverse that's not in any way affiliated with Schumacher's continuity), to be a completely unique individual with no peers to speak of. No Superman. No Wonder Woman. No Justice League. Nothing. It's just Batman, and Batman alone.
Honestly, same. I never thought most other DC characters were compatible with Burton's reality. MAYBE Swamp Thing but I'd have to be talked into that.
Quote from: The Joker on Sun, 30 Apr 2023, 01:42Kinda like how "Spider-Man No Way Home" confirmed Tobey's Spider-Man didn't have a shared universe with the Avengers and others
It makes sense. But it's still kind of a shame because I always thought Spider-Man 3 would fit well with MCU Phase One. They COULD have blended them together and it would've been fine.
Quote from: The Joker on Sun, 30 Apr 2023, 01:42Maybe it's just me being nostalgic for the pre shared universe days with cinematic DC and Marvel movies, but that's how I honestly grew up thinking about the subject.
Agreed. When I watch Raimi's Spider-Man, Burton's Batman or Reeve's Superman, I don't miss any other characters. Doesn't bother me a bit that those characters exist in their own immaculate reality. If anything, I think the lack of connective tissue to the rest of the DC or Marvel universes enhances all of them.
These images have been touched up, but they are new.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FvXaOw5WIAEu3tG?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FvXaOw7XsAA5IVw?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
Interesting that variant Keaton still has some moustache visible on his face, even after he cleans himself up with a haircut. It doesn't stick out prominently but it's there.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 5 May 2023, 19:41
Interesting that variant Keaton still has some moustache visible on his face, even after he cleans himself up with a haircut. It doesn't stick out prominently but it's there.
Also bear in mind that this is a photo that has been artificially enhanced a lot. It is brighter and sharper than the softer, darker image of what was a screen shot. That stubble is on steroids.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Fri, 5 May 2023, 20:17
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 5 May 2023, 19:41
Interesting that variant Keaton still has some moustache visible on his face, even after he cleans himself up with a haircut. It doesn't stick out prominently but it's there.
Also bear in mind that this is a photo that has been artificially enhanced a lot. It is brighter and sharper than the softer, darker image of what was a screen shot. That stubble is on steroids.
It does highlight the details a lot more.
I have to say everything, and I mean everything, that I've seen from Batman (both Batfleck and Keaton) in this movie looks top notch. It's presenting the character as a mythic superhero at the height of his powers, performing feats that go beyond that of a mere mortal. Whenever he's on screen he's doing something exciting in a stylistic way, which makes me think Muschietti would be a good choice for the Brave and the Bold movie.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Fri, 5 May 2023, 14:33
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FvXaOw7XsAA5IVw?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
Keaton's appearance has obviously changed over the years, but in this pic he looks noticeably closer to his eighties/nineties self. The hairpiece is part of it, but they've also darkened his eyebrows to make them look like they did when he was younger. It appears there might be some designer stubble there too.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 5 May 2023, 19:41
Interesting that variant Keaton still has some moustache visible on his face, even after he cleans himself up with a haircut. It doesn't stick out prominently but it's there.
It could be my imagination, but it sometimes looked as though Keaton was sporting shades of stubble in his earlier Batman movies.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Qx2RVs5D/bat-stubble.png)
(https://i.postimg.cc/dtFCFNt0/b1.png)
I think it was part of the makeup department's technique to accentuate the contours of his face and make him look tougher and more masculine. Or maybe these scenes/pictures were just recorded later in the day when he had five o'clock shadow coming through. Either way, I always thought it looked cool.
A few newly released images.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FwMZ4ksWYAA3-fQ?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FwMc3LAXgAAqUBg?format=jpg&name=large)
It's still very surreal to me that we're about to see Keaton again on the big screen in a new movie. 8)
Quote from: Travesty on Tue, 16 May 2023, 13:26
It's still very surreal to me that we're about to see Keaton again on the big screen in a new movie. 8)
The image of Batman piloting the new batwing doesn't look great, but I'm sure it will look better in live action. What I really like is the shot of Keaton standing inside the cave. He embodies the personality of Batman so much without even speaking. Contemplative, haunted...determined. I get the feeling he's going to confirm why he's the favorite of a lot of us here. For the sake of his legacy I'm hoping the overall success of the film matches the early word of mouth, because despite the circus of altered endings and scrapped future films the fanbase loves Keaton in this role, and I hope he knows that. He may not be a strong follower of the material like us, but he's done more than most to promote the franchise.
Is anyone else surprised that they're leaning more into the aesthetics of the 89 film rather than Returns? The only things I've noticed from Returns thus far are the logo on the suit and the glider cape.
Quote from: BatmanFurst on Wed, 17 May 2023, 19:45
Is anyone else surprised that they're leaning more into the aesthetics of the 89 film rather than Returns? The only things I've noticed from Returns thus far are the logo on the suit and the glider cape.
Not really. 89 is the undisputed favorite classic Batman film of that series at least among the general audience. Returns is beloved by far less and generally considered the first runner up for the worst of the franchise behind Batman and Robin. The only reason your getting the Returns chest logo is because the 89 one looks "weird" with the extra points.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Tue, 25 Apr 2023, 16:52
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fukp6w7XwAspfY0?format=jpg&name=4096x4096) :(
After letting this one marinate for a while I now quite like it. All the main players are there, we have the title font present and the overall palette pops. In some ways the overall design reminds me of the Burton-Schumacher era. I think this is intended to be the final, official poster.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Wed, 17 May 2023, 20:39
Quote from: BatmanFurst on Wed, 17 May 2023, 19:45
Is anyone else surprised that they're leaning more into the aesthetics of the 89 film rather than Returns? The only things I've noticed from Returns thus far are the logo on the suit and the glider cape.
Not really. 89 is the undisputed favorite classic Batman film of that series at least among the general audience. Returns is beloved by far less and generally considered the first runner up for the worst of the franchise behind Batman and Robin. The only reason your getting the Returns chest logo is because the 89 one looks "weird" with the extra points.
A big BR fan here, but indeed, all the big iconic Batman moments happen in the first movie. They have been promoting the Burtonverse as Earth 89, so those elements are what they're going to focus on.
Quote from: BatmanFurst on Wed, 17 May 2023, 19:45
Is anyone else surprised that they're leaning more into the aesthetics of the 89 film rather than Returns? The only things I've noticed from Returns thus far are the logo on the suit and the glider cape.
Bruce's civilian clothes look to have been modelled on his BR wardrobe more than the fashions he sported in B89.
(https://i.postimg.cc/j5d0L32q/1.png)
(https://i.postimg.cc/XqmT1V8X/2.png)
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Wed, 17 May 2023, 20:39Returns is beloved by far less and generally considered the first runner up for the worst of the franchise behind Batman and Robin.
That might have been true back in the nineties, but nowadays the consensus definitely favours Batman Returns over Batman Forever.
BR has an 81% rating on Rotten Tomatoes, which is the highest of any film in the Burton-Schumacher series, and it has the same 'top critic' score (68%) as Batman Begins. Its Metascore is only 1% lower than Batman 89's, and while B89's IMDb rating has dropped in recent years BR's has been steadily rising. Empire Magazine included BR on its 500 greatest movies list, Japanese filmmaker Satoshi Kon included it on his 100 greatest films list, and American filmmaker Darren Aronofsky described it as a "masterpiece". BR was underappreciated when it first came out, but its reputation has significantly improved since the Nolan trilogy ended. A lot of people seem to feel that while B89 is more nostalgic and a better Batman story, BR has aged better on a technical level and is a superior work of filmmaking overall.
I'm not saying Rotten Tomatoes or Metacritic are a reliable way of gauging a film's quality, because they certainly aren't. I'm just citing them as metrics to illustrate the consensus.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Fri, 19 May 2023, 11:08
Bruce's civilian clothes look to have been modelled on his BR wardrobe more than the fashions he sported in B89.
(https://i.postimg.cc/j5d0L32q/1.png)
(https://i.postimg.cc/XqmT1V8X/2.png)
Well spotted.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Fri, 19 May 2023, 11:08
A lot of people seem to feel that while B89 is more nostalgic and a better Batman story, BR has aged better on a technical level and is a superior work of filmmaking overall.
That's accurate. The way Burton uses The Penguin and Catwoman makes it the better told story even though B89 is such an iconic showcase for Batman and The Joker, who are the most well known characters in the franchise. I don't think Returns is hated these days at all. Just yesterday Lego announced a BR batcave set, and a children's picture story book on the film was also released not long ago.
BTS photo of Antje Traue on set for "The Flash".
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fwe3PvUWcAEEuz3?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
And
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obwv4OEKjyg
Quote from: The Joker on Sat, 20 May 2023, 00:52
BTS photo of Antje Traue on set for "The Flash".
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fwe3PvUWcAEEuz3?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
And
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obwv4OEKjyg
So it sounds like the idea of bringing Keaton back possibly originated with the Muschietti's?
Some comments about the video about Keaton returning: it looks like he retains the Bat turn with his body movement, which is great to see. That component really helps in making him the best of the modern Batman actors for me. The way he completely immersed himself in the persona, with the suit making him a whole other person entirely. I had feared a more mobile neck would reduce or erase this component. His facial expressions when piloting the batwing are also very similar to those in the original Burton films, I'd describe it as an angry focus. And the other Barry saying he saw the Batmobile on TV as a kid seals the deal this Batman is 100% a variant.
Tix are on sale right now
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 22 Mar 2023, 11:24
QuoteRated PG-13 for sequences of violence and action, some strong language and partial nudity.
https://www.filmratings.com/search?filmTitle=The%20Flash
I hope the 'partial nudity' isn't Ezra.
QuoteGore detailed, "I'll just say this. I'm like cringing. Some of these jokes don't land. Two Ezra Millers are just kind of annoying. He even does some things in it like when he goes to visit his mom, he's in his Flash costume, he doesn't have clothes so he steals some clothes from an old lady. So he's wearing like a woman's top. It's very much what a they/them would wear."
"And then there's another scene where the other version of Barry is completely naked," he revealed. "And not just for a little bit of time. Like a lot. He's naked a lot. You see his butt very clear. You don't see the twigs and berries."
Gore then revealed his reaction to this scene, "And I'm sitting here in a room with 7-year-olds watching this film thinking, 'This is kind of inappropriate.' The amount of nudity. One quick thing like a Coppertone ad. And I'm like this is going on like this amount of nudity is a little too much."
"Now, it's all played like innocent and goofy and fun or whatever, but it's alarming," he added.
https://boundingintocomics.com/2023/05/24/the-flash-film-reportedly-features-ezra-millers-barry-allen-naked-a-lot-as-well-as-an-up-skirt-shot-of-gal-gadots-wonder-woman/
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/19/ef/9a/19ef9a8760b08f67d016a7789ae75d07.gif)
We should've seen this coming. Male nudity is more common than these days.
Still, the exact level of nudity that Gore describes sounds just plain weird.
I'll concur with Gore if it's true about Gal Gadot's, and Sasha Calle ass shots.
No complaints. No complaints, whatsoever.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 24 May 2023, 21:33
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/19/ef/9a/19ef9a8760b08f67d016a7789ae75d07.gif)
My reaction entirely. I think it will be a good movie, but I'm not expecting the best CBM of all time or anything. I see what WB are doing, and it's overkill. Too many advance screenings and getting reactions out there because they're terrified of another box office bomb. They know they have a product they can exploit here.
"I have to ask you... Didn't you think it was a trifle unnecessary to see the crack in the Flash's bottom?"
(https://i.postimg.cc/L4r2PRkD/crack.png)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8tvw4z8FzU
Spoiler tagging it incase people choose to not watch this clip
Didnt think I'd get excited hearing Keaton say "Superman"...also love how he's like "after that (getting superman) youre on your own! Batman is back!
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Fri, 26 May 2023, 04:39
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8tvw4z8FzU
Spoiler tagging it incase people choose to not watch this clip
Didnt think I'd get excited hearing Keaton say "Superman"...also love how he's like "after that (getting superman) youre on your own! Batman is back!
How he says "this Superman" suggests to me he's never heard of him before, which gels with my preference of the Burtonverse not having one.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FxJ_9TfWIAAUuDi?format=jpg&name=large)
The suit appeals to me more and more. It's going to look even better during his main action sequence set at night, rescuing Supergirl in the Russian stronghold, which I've heard rivals the BvS warehouse fight.
Times Square 1989:
(https://preview.redd.it/this-giant-billboard-was-in-times-square-from-1988-1989-and-v0-x694cg80hbi81.jpg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=235bb94bfdfd87fbeea31546c43569a2e3c544d5)
Times Square 1992:
(https://i.redd.it/9tu6gj4np9691.jpg)
Times Square 2023:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FxJDC2IWAAIuBmH?format=jpg&name=large)
Reminds me of when I visited New York in the summer of 2008, and back then there was a massive image of Heath Ledger's Joker on display in Times Square.
More Antje Traue BTS photos.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fw0RnrzXgAInHtZ?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fw0Rnr-XsAAknbt?format=jpg&name=large)
Watching 89 right now and I feel like Keaton feels more like his 89 Batman than his Returns Batman. I never realized how much more quiet he was in Returns.
Something I've heard that references B89:
Hobo Bruce inside the Manor uses hidden cameras to spy on the Barrys in the cave. This is a neat inversion to the scene where he watches Vicki and Knox from the bat computer. I also think it feels fitting two Batman titans (Keaton and Bale) share the reclusive hermit character element on the big screen.
Textless version of the China poster art.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FxYl_Z6akAEzOEt?format=jpg&name=large)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkU5vlXJbfw
I'm going to be able to see the movie about three days before the official release date. I'll be there in a yellow and black oval emblem with the spirit of 89/92 coursing through my veins. I'd rather see it first this way, because it'll be the Final Cut with all scenes and post credits included.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nO7-tQqWeko
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3PlVJBmWNU
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FxetMIZaIAIehqQ?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FxeqIP8WwBY2kDL?format=jpg&name=large)
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Wed, 31 May 2023, 14:34
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nO7-tQqWeko
They've done a good job integrating Elfman's theme here. I like how the vibe is excitement and wonder.
Apparently Keaton is going to attend a B89/TF double header in London soon too. Makes me wonder when he last saw the first movie, and the flood of emotions that would come back to him in that theatre.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 1 Jun 2023, 12:38
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Wed, 31 May 2023, 14:34
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nO7-tQqWeko
They've done a good job integrating Elfman's theme here. I like how the vibe is excitement and wonder.
Apparently Keaton is going to attend a B89/TF double header in London soon too. Makes me wonder when he last saw the first movie, and the flood of emotions that would come back to him in that theatre.
I would even say it's handled better than how Elfman included the 89 theme in Justice League (granted he basically had to rush it)
It does come off a little more TAS-ish but thats not really a bad thing
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FxjMf2RXwAM_vyB?format=jpg&name=large)
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Thu, 1 Jun 2023, 14:40
I would even say it's handled better than how Elfman included the 89 theme in Justice League (granted he basically had to rush it)
It does come off a little more TAS-ish but thats not really a bad thing
The Burton theme actually belongs in this movie whereas it didn't in JL. Elfman's music does have a flourish about it that isn't booming like Zimmer, and I think that's captured here in the new sample. Batman's back and he's going into battle. It's a moment to celebrate and I'm happy that's what we're getting, as opposed to Jake Skywalker never leaving his island of brooding and getting to strut his stuff in person.
As for the final scene with Barry, the Batman we see is Clooney. I think that's great because it now gives us four generations of Batman in the film (West, Keaton, Affleck, Clooney), making it a wide showcase of the character's cinematic history. I don't think something like that's ever going to happen again.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 2 Jun 2023, 07:46
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Thu, 1 Jun 2023, 14:40
I would even say it's handled better than how Elfman included the 89 theme in Justice League (granted he basically had to rush it)
It does come off a little more TAS-ish but thats not really a bad thing
The Burton theme actually belongs in this movie whereas it didn't in JL. Elfman's music does have a flourish about it that isn't booming like Zimmer, and I think that's captured here in the new sample. Batman's back and he's going into battle. It's a moment to celebrate and I'm happy that's what we're getting, as opposed to Jake Skywalker never leaving his island of brooding and getting to strut his stuff in person.
As for the final scene with Barry, the Batman we see is Clooney. I think that's great because it now gives us four generations of Batman in the film (West, Keaton, Affleck, Clooney), making it a wide showcase of the character's cinematic history. I don't think something like that's ever going to happen again.
Fiar point, but I felt it was underutlized as a theme in general (compared to the Reeves Superman theme).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVHA50NkXRc
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Fri, 2 Jun 2023, 13:07
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 2 Jun 2023, 07:46
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Thu, 1 Jun 2023, 14:40
I would even say it's handled better than how Elfman included the 89 theme in Justice League (granted he basically had to rush it)
It does come off a little more TAS-ish but thats not really a bad thing
The Burton theme actually belongs in this movie whereas it didn't in JL. Elfman's music does have a flourish about it that isn't booming like Zimmer, and I think that's captured here in the new sample. Batman's back and he's going into battle. It's a moment to celebrate and I'm happy that's what we're getting, as opposed to Jake Skywalker never leaving his island of brooding and getting to strut his stuff in person.
As for the final scene with Barry, the Batman we see is Clooney. I think that's great because it now gives us four generations of Batman in the film (West, Keaton, Affleck, Clooney), making it a wide showcase of the character's cinematic history. I don't think something like that's ever going to happen again.
Fiar point, but I felt it was underutlized as a theme in general (compared to the Reeves Superman theme).
It felt like Elfman was burying his Batman theme deliberately, to have it there but also not. In any case I don't recognize WhedonLeague as canon. As soon as Snyder was dropped the consistency of the universe fell away, and I'm glad it's all over now. But The Flash should have been the true end of the line - they're going ahead with Aquaman II, and making it the first DCU project. All because the original film made $1 billion they think the sequel could perform somewhat similar. Word is the film is an absolute stinker, and all the tinkering in the world hasn't changed that. Having that as the first film of a new canon would be unacceptable to me from a quality point of view.
It's going to be curious to see how the ending plays out with people. It's kind of jarring to see Supergirl and BatKeaton promoted so prominently in glory, knowing the last we see them they're dead - regardless if we can say they're sent back to their timelines off screen. Both are victims of the DCEU tinkerfest. They could've had happy closure with their original last scene appearance outside the courthouse, but a reboot means they don't.
This wasn't meant to be the end (he filmed content for Batgirl), but now it is. From that point of view I'll always view The Flash as not the pure work as originally intended. I doubt Keaton will comment on this right now, or possibly ever, but I'd still like to know what he really thinks of the changing context of his return. The role does mean something to him. As soon as he saw the new cave for the first time he sent a photo to Tim Burton.
I'm not sure how much money the movie is going to make. I think Keaton is a draw, but the disdain for Miller and the overall quality of the DCEU are factors that will play a part. To what degree I don't know. If the movie underperforms to a large degree, after the many advance screenings and word of mouth the studio has pumped out, it would be a severe blow. And it would make me wonder how long the downturn would last. A Gunn led DCU would not equal automatic success at all - it would also be in the firing line.
Via "Flash Visual Companion" book.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FxjIv3OWAAEuSO-?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FxjIwmSXsAM39w9?format=jpg&name=large)
This is a very good and interesting point. I was actually thinking about how Elfman said "Batman already has a theme, mine" and how I really feel like he was told to do it to help seperate it from the Snyder scores. I actually hope people start asking him about his time scoring Batman with Keaton coming back.
That said, I feel like Keaton's theme coming back was not mared by Justice League at all. It's always great hearing it. I do think its also the more dyamic theme of the Batman themes (the Batman coming a close second)
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/1qdwx_skIek
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FxwCyKhX0AAbxlX?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FxuTpIjWAAAu6DU?format=jpg&name=large)
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Sat, 3 Jun 2023, 00:56
That said, I feel like Keaton's theme coming back was not mared by Justice League at all. It's always great hearing it. I do think its also the more dyamic theme of the Batman themes (the Batman coming a close second)
It shouldn't have been there but the theme itself wasn't hurt in the slightest. It's too iconic for that to happen. While I've grown to really like the ambience Zimmer created, Elfman's main hero theme can't be topped.
Articles are out there saying a sequel for The Flash has already been written and Keaton and Calle are included. This would have been the plan under the old regime. Even if the movie is a runaway success I can't see it happening under the same circumstances, in the short term or even at all. The new slate will get underway and take precedence.
Know what I was thinking, it would have/would be nice to see a villain collection. It would expand the history a bit more than the suits and add some nice Easter eggs.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sun, 4 Jun 2023, 23:54It shouldn't have been there but the theme itself wasn't hurt in the slightest. It's too iconic for that to happen. While I've grown to really like the ambience Zimmer created, Elfman's main hero theme can't be topped.
What I'm hoping for is that the usage of the Elfman theme will remind Hollywood composers about how important and iconic themes can be. Like you, I have a tremendous affection for Zimmer's atmospherics.
But nothing can compete with a powerful theme.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sun, 4 Jun 2023, 23:54Articles are out there saying a sequel for The Flash has already been written and Keaton and Calle are included. This would have been the plan under the old regime. Even if the movie is a runaway success I can't see it happening under the same circumstances, in the short term or even at all. The new slate will get underway and take precedence.
In the (unlikely) event that The Flash hits $1 billion, somebody from WBD will want to make a sequel.
It's sort of a non-issue since it looks like The Flash would have to violate several different laws of economics (and maybe even physics) to even come close to $1 billion. I'm just saying that IF that were to happen, Gunn would be in a mighty uncomfortable position.
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Mon, 5 Jun 2023, 01:30
Know what I was thinking, it would have/would be nice to see a villain collection. It would expand the history a bit more than the suits and add some nice Easter eggs.
A while back I read that we see Joker's laugh box in the cave.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon, 5 Jun 2023, 03:29
What I'm hoping for is that the usage of the Elfman theme will remind Hollywood composers about how important and iconic themes can be. Like you, I have a tremendous affection for Zimmer's atmospherics.
But nothing can compete with a powerful theme.
The movies that have become classics would not have the same resonance if they lacked powerful themes. They are experiences in which emotional connections are made with an audience. Jurassic Park, for example, would not have anywhere near the same atmosphere if anyone other than John Williams did the score. That type of work is lightning in a bottle. I think Elfman managed to capture some of that with Batman.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon, 5 Jun 2023, 03:29
In the (unlikely) event that The Flash hits $1 billion, somebody from WBD will want to make a sequel.
It's sort of a non-issue since it looks like The Flash would have to violate several different laws of economics (and maybe even physics) to even come close to $1 billion. I'm just saying that IF that were to happen, Gunn would be in a mighty uncomfortable position.
WB are pushing the movie loud and proud, but I think it's because they need a win right now. We all know why The Flash was delayed for a year. I don't think they are necessarily comfortable with the situation as it stands, but the Keaton angle is enough to get them through and bank some money - even if it doesn't reach the billion mark. Which like you, I'm sceptical about.
Can the studio openly distance themselves against the main star of the movie they're trying to sell right now? Not really. If people ask about a hypothetical sequel they have to express confidence in Miller coming back, as it demonstrates confidence in what he has already done. I'm thinking especially if Andy Muschietti directs The Brave and the Bold, The Flash 2 as a major project is pushed into the distance. Gunn seems to be hiding behind the multiverse in that any character could appear sometime in the future.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSbtu9f5ZIk
Guesswork based on the first clip: Bruce says Gotham is safe and he's not needed. I have no idea if this comment is fleshed out later, but it potentially gives room to suggest he's brought crime under control through a drone program while chilling inside Wayne Manor. As I thought, Keatonman has never heard of or met any Superman before. Making this no different to Bale meeting metahumans, which is pretty wild, and I think appropriate. It's the way I always saw the Burtonverse. Keaton's performance is amazing too. He's funny, odd (as a recluse would be) and with a nervous type of energy about him. To the point you wouldn't think he's Batman at all. Which is a compliment to the transformation which will happen later.
Here are some more clips, including the scene where Barry2 converts the BR batsuit into a Flash costume.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfFw_kf8xhE
The review embargo ends today, which should give us an idea of the critical consensus.
At the heart of everything this is a Flash movie, but after watching some of those clips I'm inclined to say it's capturing a similar kind of vibe that Burton had in 1989 and 1992. A movie that has darker elements but is really an elevated form of the 1966 Batman that makes it accessible to a wider range of people. I'm eager to see if the real reviews match the early hype that was put out there to create buzz. I have a feeling they could be somewhat similar.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Tue, 6 Jun 2023, 09:17
The review embargo ends today, which should give us an idea of the critical consensus.
Might be at least amusing to read I guess. So far it seems to be getting a lot of, "It's fine. Not ground breaking, not
'the best DC movie since Nolan's The Dark Knight yet again for the 100th time!', but overall good/very decent." kinda takes.
So the rumors are going strong that Andy Muschietti is going to direct The Brave and the Bold.
We'll see....
I've seen the movie. I won't go into spoilers but I had a really good time with it. It's definitely a Flash film but there's enough Batman content in there to satisfy us as fans. Keaton steps in to the role effortlessly, even if what you see in the trailers is pretty much what you get, albeit expanded in parts.
It was a particular joy to watch his Batman in combat, and I love how it showcased how intelligent he is. He has a gadget for every occasion and thinks things through. It really did feel like the comics come to life in that regard, moreso than most of the screen incarnations we've seen. There's also another B89 quote callback that I wasn't expecting and had me grinning from ear to ear. I've come to conclusions about certain plot points and I'm comfortable with them.
I don't like Ezra as a person but I can't deny he did a good job here, even if younger variant Barry is annoying. Which he's meant to be. The characters all have arcs and I can appreciate the growth they undergo. I'll have more to say as I let it go over in my mind. All in all, I do think The Flash is one of the better DC films.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Tue, 13 Jun 2023, 13:02I don't like Ezra as a person but I can't deny he did a good job here, even if younger variant Barry is annoying. Which he's meant to be. The characters all have arcs and I can appreciate the growth they undergo. I'll have more to say as I let it go over in my mind. All in all, I do think The Flash is one of the better DC films.
I've always hated Ezra's Barry. Even before Ezra went crazy, I hated his casting. His Barry is way too goofy for me. It's much closer to Wally, but just an all-around bad Barry Allen.
Is he still ultra goofy in this?
There are aspects of it still there of course, but he's less so compared to the younger Barry. Especially when he meets the other version of himself, who shouldn't exist, he can see how unappreciative and flippant he is about life, and he doesn't like it. You can tell the difference between the two. One is experienced and the other isn't.
I think the runtime is pretty good. It kept me engaged throughout. I felt a part during the last act was a bit off, but it didn't last long. The plot is focused and knows the core messages it's trying to convey.
Quote from: Travesty on Tue, 13 Jun 2023, 13:39Quote from: The Dark Knight on Tue, 13 Jun 2023, 13:02I don't like Ezra as a person but I can't deny he did a good job here, even if younger variant Barry is annoying. Which he's meant to be. The characters all have arcs and I can appreciate the growth they undergo. I'll have more to say as I let it go over in my mind. All in all, I do think The Flash is one of the better DC films.
I've always hated Ezra's Barry. Even before Ezra went crazy, I hated his casting. His Barry is way too goofy for me. It's much closer to Wally, but just an all-around bad Barry Allen.
Is he still ultra goofy in this?
I saw the movie yesterday! Yes, the younger Barry is quite goofy in this. It works sometimes (I did laugh a few times) and other times it falls flat to the point of cringe. I don't want to give too much away, but I did feel like Keaton was absolutely the bright spot of the movie. I'm not sure if I'd watch the movie a second time, despite Keaton being fantastic in it. I did walk away smiling though... it was a real trip seeing him as Batman again after all these years.
I agree with that. I think the movie is good on the whole but I'm okay in spacing out a second viewing. This isn't Batman 3 by any stretch in terms of his screentime. But I think his return action scene is one of the best on film. Once he's in the batwing you can tell he's transformed into his all business persona. I view The Flash as a tribute to what came before in a different setting/context. It's a bonus, and Keaton is still my favorite Dark Knight.
It was an absolute joy to see him again. And his 1st scene in the movie totally answers the question of "how could a 70-ish year old Batman still have the goods?" haha... t
There were a couple of very minor Keaton-related gripes I had, and that's mainly because I think it could've been more subtle. The famous "wanna get nuts?" line from the trailer I think could've worked better if changed to "You guys wanna get nuts?" and still been close enough to connect it to the first movie. But again, if I'm griping about things like that, it's because I'm being so nitpicky after a 30 year absence. I think it's fair to say that if you subtract him from the movie completely, the movie wouldn't work as well as it does.
It's worth noting the Batfleck action scene on the bike. There's a particular section on a bridge that counts as one of the best cinematic Batman pieces of action as well in my book. It's very much in the manner of 'you don't stop Batman, you only temporarily slow him down'. A goon has a reaction equivalent to Bob The Goon as well - he made the smart choice after what I saw.
As for Keaton and any future appearances, I honestly don't see how he's written out from appearing in anything again. The nature of time travel and the multiverse makes any plotline possible, and the film doesn't really outright state one way or another as to what's what. You just know the new world Barry made is off from how things should be.
I think it was worth WB releasing the movie despite all the drama. I don't think it's an all timer, but it's still a worthwhile addition. I'm leaning on the 7.5 or 8/10 side.
Andre over at Midnight's Edge gives his non-spoiler review.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEwGifmhq4k
Michael Keaton made an appearance at a screening of "The Flash" in Paris last night.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FyiOPufaMAAOY5S?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FyiOPuWaMAAqtWx?format=jpg&name=medium)
Well, I have tickets for tomorrow night. I've been doing a good job at avoiding spoilers. I've only seen the official trailers, so I that's all I know of or have seen.
Definitely excited to see Keaton on the big screen again. 8)
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 14 Jun 2023, 05:46It's worth noting the Batfleck action scene on the bike. There's a particular section on a bridge that counts as one of the best cinematic Batman pieces of action as well in my book. It's very much in the manner of 'you don't stop Batman, you only temporarily slow him down'. A goon has a reaction equivalent to Bob The Goon as well - he made the smart choice after what I saw.
It's interesting... I found that scene to be unexciting. It wasn't the "wow" factor that I had hoped for Affleck's Batman even if he is one of my least favourite portrayals. But yeah, most people may feel differently about that scene. I did laugh at the "goon reaction" you're referring to.
That was funny. Overall though I think it's worth seeing in the cinema even if it's a bit messy... I can't imagine anyone would walk away not being pleased with Keaton's part in it all.
Quote from: KeatonisBatman on Wed, 14 Jun 2023, 22:17Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 14 Jun 2023, 05:46It's worth noting the Batfleck action scene on the bike. There's a particular section on a bridge that counts as one of the best cinematic Batman pieces of action as well in my book. It's very much in the manner of 'you don't stop Batman, you only temporarily slow him down'. A goon has a reaction equivalent to Bob The Goon as well - he made the smart choice after what I saw.
It's interesting... I found that scene to be unexciting. It wasn't the "wow" factor that I had hoped for Affleck's Batman even if he is one of my least favourite portrayals. But yeah, most people may feel differently about that scene. I did laugh at the "goon reaction" you're referring to. That was funny. Overall though I think it's worth seeing in the cinema even if it's a bit messy... I can't imagine anyone would walk away not being pleased with Keaton's part in it all.
Affleck didn't look great in the suit during his dialogue scene. But the fighting on top and inside the car was great in my opinion.
Quote from: Travesty on Wed, 14 Jun 2023, 13:53Well, I have tickets for tomorrow night. I've been doing a good job at avoiding spoilers. I've only seen the official trailers, so I that's all I know of or have seen.
Definitely excited to see Keaton on the big screen again. 8)
I think my friend on facebook may have spoiled the end camero and I'm kinda annoyed about that. Plus people on some forums cant seem to be bothered using spoiler tags even with forums with spoiler threads. Also all the "ending explained" videos are coming out cause Europe is seeing it first so I am doing a social media block out for the next 24 hours
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Thu, 15 Jun 2023, 17:18I think my friend on facebook may have spoiled the end camero and I'm kinda annoyed about that. Plus people on some forums cant seem to be bothered using spoiler tags even with forums with spoiler threads. Also all the "ending explained" videos are coming out cause Europe is seeing it first so I am doing a social media block out for the next 24 hours
I would recommend avoiding the Wikipedia page as well. Because it's festooned with spoiler info.
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Thu, 15 Jun 2023, 17:18I think my friend on facebook may have spoiled the end camero and I'm kinda annoyed about that. Plus people on some forums cant seem to be bothered using spoiler tags even with forums with spoiler threads. Also all the "ending explained" videos are coming out cause Europe is seeing it first so I am doing a social media block out for the next 24 hours
That sucks. I think we're pretty good here in regards to spoilers. We speculate as to what could happen without definitely knowing. And when we do, white text is used if we feel like it's required, with the rest being general comments without going too deep into context.
About three days or so after seeing the movie I still lean on the liking it side. I enjoyed myself enough while watching it. But right now I don't have a burning desire to see it again straight away. But I will. I have things I'd like to discuss here but I'll wait a bit longer so others have had the chance to see it.
I'm seeing the movie tomorrow.
Which is strange when you think about it. Why isn't the movie where Michael Keaton comes back to Batman coming out on June 23?
Anyway, I'll have more to say later.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 16 Jun 2023, 17:21I'm seeing the movie tomorrow.
Which is strange when you think about it. Why isn't the movie where Michael Keaton comes back to Batman coming out on June 23?
It was, actually. When it first got delayed to 2023 it was slated for June 23rd. It got moved up to the 16th back in January or something.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 16 Jun 2023, 17:21I'm seeing the movie tomorrow.
Which is strange when you think about it. Why isn't the movie where Michael Keaton comes back to Batman coming out on June 23?
Anyway, I'll have more to say later.
Colors going to a cinema? Seems like a special event rarity from what I understand. Naturally I'll be interested to hear what you think of both the movie and the cinema going experience itself.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 16 Jun 2023, 19:59Colors going to a cinema? Seems like a special event rarity from what I understand. Naturally I'll be interested to hear what you think of both the movie and the cinema going experience itself.
I think I can do it. Besides, it's Keaton as Batman, amirite?
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 16 Jun 2023, 20:15Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 16 Jun 2023, 19:59Colors going to a cinema? Seems like a special event rarity from what I understand. Naturally I'll be interested to hear what you think of both the movie and the cinema going experience itself.
I think I can do it. Besides, it's Keaton as Batman, amirite?
The cinema going experience can be hit and miss. The hit is always the big screen, the darkness and the sound. But who you're seated with is luck of the draw. If things escalate in there make sure you don't miss when you go to hit.
Don't expect a movie like Joker or The Batman as the tone is different to that. I still mostly enjoyed the movie though for what it was going for, even if I'd have to push it down my Batman movie appearance ranking as other films are much purer, Batman world centric adaptions.
I posted a review in the spoiler thread, but to summarise my thoughts in a more concise spoiler-free statement:
I think it's a pretty average movie, overlong, tonally uneven, with poor special effects and an annoying central performance from Miller; but I think the musical score is good, Keaton's return is handled well, Batman gets some cool action scenes, and the film succeeds in making the viewer care about the central mother-son relationship. I enjoyed it overall, despite its shortcomings.
People's mileage will vary according to their tolerance for Miller and their affection for Keaton.
Quote from: eledoremassis02 on Thu, 15 Jun 2023, 17:18I think my friend on facebook may have spoiled the end camero and I'm kinda annoyed about that. Plus people on some forums cant seem to be bothered using spoiler tags even with forums with spoiler threads. Also all the "ending explained" videos are coming out cause Europe is seeing it first so I am doing a social media block out for the next 24 hours
Yeah that sucks... I was watching a non-spoilery video about the movie on YouTube and someone dropped a massive spoiler in the comments. >:(
Andy Muschietti claims the bad special effects were intentional.
https://variety.com/2023/film/news/the-flash-director-defends-visual-effects-intended-look-weird-1235646675/
Sounds like Muschietti is trying to be a company man.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sat, 17 Jun 2023, 13:24Andy Muschietti claims the bad special effects were intentional.
https://variety.com/2023/film/news/the-flash-director-defends-visual-effects-intended-look-weird-1235646675/
It goes make sense because given how bad Barry Allans parents look when the speed force is envolved
I'll get around to seeing it later this week. Sadly, parts of it was already spoiled (as memes, of all things).
Just to check in before I see it, this is how I rank my anticipation of the characters/actors:
1. Michael Keaton's Batman - The obvious
2. The Flash - Okay, it's technically his movie but a solo Flash movie was still overdue
3. Ben Affleck's Batman - Still one of the best Batmen that hasn't even gotten a good movie yet, but I'm here for it
4. General Zod - Starting to get indifferent at this point because we're veering into areas of the past that aren't as fondly remembered. Still a serviceable villain, but no one was clamoring for the return of this particular character.
5. Supergirl - I'd say I'm opposed to introducing such an important character in the Flash's film when it's already so dense with other characters. We're approaching the Spider-Man 3 effect now.
100. Ezra Miller - I just wanted to reiterate that I'm separating the art from the artist. I'd usually be opposed to the subject of a film playing second fiddle to another character, but when the subject is Ezra Miller, and the other is Michael Keaton, I don't blame them one bit for putting Keaton in all the promotional material.
I'm sure Supergirl was used to bypass Cavill, with the multiverse hook being the narrative excuse. And I wasn't impressed with Calle either. Anyone could've done what she did. Granted, she didn't have much to work with, but I found her on the bland side. IMO a lot of people who praise her are just doing so because they think she looks good in the suit, and to that I'm even indifferent. If this is her first and last appearance I don't see it as a huge loss.
So how do you guys feel about Andy Muschietti directing Batman: The Brave and the Bold? Apparently, it's a done deal, but who knows now that Flash flopped hard.
Do you even want him to be involved?
Quote from: Travesty on Tue, 20 Jun 2023, 14:21So how do you guys feel about Andy Muschietti directing Batman: The Brave and the Bold? Apparently, it's a done deal, but who knows now that Flash flopped hard.
Do you even want him to be involved?
I think the Keaton stuff was fine. But I'm less sure than I was before about Andy. I absolutely think we know way too much about the entire process of CBMs from start to finish, from the casting, set leaks and the entire plot known well in advance. Then the trailers show over half the movie.
If the DCU Batman is set during the daylight prominently and has an increase in humor I'm feeling apprehensive about it. The Reeves universe would be enough right now but there's going ahead with yet another actor.
Whatever one thinks of The Batman and Joker, those movies communicated to the cinema going public that they were a class above the usual fare in terms of cinematography, soundtrack and tone. After anticipating Keaton's return for so long it feels like a thud now, and I'm fine with pulling back a tad.
Bring on Dead Reckoning Part One.
Quote from: Travesty on Tue, 20 Jun 2023, 14:21So how do you guys feel about Andy Muschietti directing Batman: The Brave and the Bold? Apparently, it's a done deal, but who knows now that Flash flopped hard.
Do you even want him to be involved?
I don't know how much Muschietti should be blamed for The Flash's failure. He was in an invidious position from the moment he signed on to direct it. The Flash had been trapped in development hell for some time prior to his involvement, with numerous other directors and writers quitting the project. In landing the gig he was handed a poisoned chalice. Muschietti was working on the film under three separate regimes at WB, each of which had different visions for the movie and imposed different demands on him.
It wasn't Muschietti's idea for the film to have three different endings, or to cast Ezra Miller in the lead role. These were things foisted on him by the studio. Sure, he says he's happy with the theatrical cut. But didn't David Ayer say the same thing about the theatrical cut of Suicide Squad, only to later denounce it? Muschietti has to accept some of the blame for the way The Flash turned out, but not all of it. One thing he did contribute was the return of Michael Keaton, and for that I'm grateful.
I've seen all of Muschietti's feature films, and I can't say I loved any of them. I don't think he's a terrible director, but nor is he on the level of peak Burton, Schumacher, Nolan or Reeves. The studio acted precipitously in hiring him for The Brave and the Bold, but maybe they'll rethink that decision in light of The Flash's failure. Really, the studio should cancel that movie altogether and focus on The Batman II.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 21 Jun 2023, 03:19Bring on Dead Reckoning Part One.
Hell yes. 8)
Best shot of the cave, from a Batmobile POV!
https://streamable.com/lg4uua
The baby rescue scene made me uncomfortable and I found it in poor taste. I rarely feel like that but that's how I felt here. It's something being played for laughs but I didn't find it quirky or funny. It went on too long and I was wanting it to be over: showing all the variety of ways the babies were going to die, then Barry taking his time to have something to eat. Of all the ideas for an action scene they went with this?
Yeah, I didn't like that scene either. It was very awkward. To me, that's a joke that would work in something like The Boys, but it just doesn't work in The Flash.
I dunno, it was weird.
Considering some of the allegations against Miller, the baby sequence thing is... well, it's not a good look. Let's say that.
Quote from: Travesty on Thu, 13 Jul 2023, 16:12Yeah, I didn't like that scene either. It was very awkward. To me, that's a joke that would work in something like The Boys, but it just doesn't work in The Flash.
I dunno, it was weird.
I think the Batfleck action scene was pretty good, even though his suit was poor. Possibly the worst we've seen yet in the live action films. But that Batcycle action is connected to the baby rescuing, which lowers how I feel about that segment as a whole.
Quote from: Travesty on Tue, 20 Jun 2023, 14:21So how do you guys feel about Andy Muschietti directing Batman: The Brave and the Bold? Apparently, it's a done deal, but who knows now that Flash flopped hard.
Do you even want him to be involved?
More on this: I watched Blade Runner (The Final Cut) again recently, and if that doesn't excite anybody about the potential of a Batman Beyond film nothing will. It's one of the best looking films ever in my opinion, especially in terms of creating a specific ambience. At this stage I'd rather WB hold their horses and let Reeves stand alone. But if they really want Andy to make his movie there better be a good reason for existing. Beyond would've been that, but alas, it seems that opportunity has passed us by.
Went thru all the special features and the main making of is fantastic. Probly one of the best I've seen in a long time.
It was also nice to see how hands on Affleck was with his Batman scenes.
I wasn't sure where to post this video, but it popped up in my YouTube recommendations and I think the creator successfully articulates a point we've tried getting across in several of our discussions. The phrase "Well, that happened" perfectly encapsulates the kind of snarky dialogue and attitudes that have become all too prevalent in modern blockbusters and TV shows. Instead of working hard to make us believe in the fantastic (for example, the Netflix Daredevil) the writers cynically draw attention to how absurd it is (for example, the Disney+ She-Hulk). It's lazy and formulaic, and I'm bored of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLAahsH9e7k
I like a little humour in my science fiction and fantasy, but I also like to be able to take the speculative elements seriously so I can believe in the world the storyteller is presenting. That way I can be moved by the dramatic events occurring within that world. I don't need to be constantly reminded how silly the genre is by writers who clearly have contempt for it.
Good find. And good point! The first time I can remember noticing this and being turned off by it was the Thanos Is Coming scene from Infinity War.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bN8mtW-XHFU
The most dangerous person in the entire universe is on his way. And when he gets here, he's coming for blood.
And what do the characters do? They do the "hitherto" bit, joke about ice cream, etc. Every effort to establish the stakes is constantly undermined by quips.
And something else I noticed is that when I would criticize this on reddit back in the old days, I'd get downvoted into oblivion.
But starting a year or two ago, those reddit comments didn't get downvotes anymore. Now, they get upvotes and at least a few people say something like "Yeah, it's lame when movies make fun of themselves like that".
Seems to me a sea change is going on.
"Lol, did he just say sea change? What's a sea change?"
"Maybe it's like climate change or something. The sea's are rising?"
"So, it's good news then, right? Seafood will be cheaper!"
"Man, I could really go for some calamari right about now, lol!"
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sat, 5 Aug 2023, 11:17I wasn't sure where to post this video, but it popped up in my YouTube recommendations and I think the creator successfully articulates a point we've tried getting across in several of our discussions. The phrase "Well, that happened" perfectly encapsulates the kind of snarky dialogue and attitudes that have become all too prevalent in modern blockbusters and TV shows. Instead of working hard to make us believe in the fantastic (for example, the Netflix Daredevil) the writers cynically draw attention to how absurd it is (for example, the Disney+ She-Hulk). It's lazy and formulaic, and I'm bored of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLAahsH9e7k
I like a little humour in my science fiction and fantasy, but I also like to be able to take the speculative elements seriously so I can believe in the world the storyteller is presenting. That way I can be moved by the dramatic events occurring within that world. I don't need to be constantly reminded how silly the genre is by writers who clearly have contempt for it.
I was about to bring up an example that's in his video. This is why something like Spider-Man 2 still stands as one of the best superhero films ever made. It has plenty of humor, but it knows when to drop that and take the characters seriously. That scene between Peter and Aunt May where he reveals what happened on the night of Uncle Ben's death is completely sincere. There's no joke in there to undercut the situation. I do wish these big budget films had a better mastery of tone in that way.
Quote from: BatmanFurst on Sat, 5 Aug 2023, 18:11I was about to bring up an example that's in his video. This is why something like Spider-Man 2 still stands as one of the best superhero films ever made. It has plenty of humor, but it knows when to drop that and take the characters seriously. That scene between Peter and Aunt May where he reveals what happened on the night of Uncle Ben's death is completely sincere. There's no joke in there to undercut the situation. I do wish these big budget films had a better mastery of tone in that way.
The issue with the approach of various superhero films is that they're taking the approach that fantasy is colliding with their real world.
When Bond finds a luxury control centre in the Amazon jungle and blasts off into space from a shuttle it's all seamless and completely accepted as normal by the hero and everyone who inhabits that world. Mocking the scenario in the film itself would break the immersion. Anything that happens in such a reality is possible and viewers saying it's not and illogical are missing the point completely.
Adam West and Gene Wilder knew exactly what I'm talking about. Play it straight and let the film present itself as what it is. Making escapist entertainment isn't as easy as people seem to think, and it's not always understood or judged on the correct merits. Marvel and DC have both missed the mark when it comes to translating material to the big screen.
It was brought to my attention that Geoff Johns was featured in a behind-the-scenes featurette for The Flash.
https://youtu.be/G9USUqWSEcw?t=2877
Yes, let's invite the man who was one of the key antagonists behind the Josstice L debacle, sabotaging the flegling DCEU and cost the studio billions of dollars with flops like that movie and WW84, and got exposed for enabling Joss Whedon's abuse on the set of JL. Yet, not only was WB okay with all of that and gave him a job to write more for DC Comics, but they still invited him to speak publicly for film featurettes, in addition to writing DC TV shows. He probably still had some secret input for The Flash. It would explain why they recycled the Lasso of Truth joke from Josstice L. Apologists will try to excuse Johns' involvement in this promo because of his extensive Flash bibliography, but that blatantly ignores the bad publicity he is guilty of.
If there's a silver lining to this, The Flash's failure is well deserved, and if the streaming numbers trailing behind Black Adam are anything to go by then there's another insult to injury. But now, I'm at a point if DC Comics can't get sold to a more professional company, then I will not shed a tear if it goes bankrupt one day. The same definitely goes for WB.
I said last year don't be surprised if WB rehires Whedon for another DC job. If they're willing to go with that disgusting pervert Gunn and bastards like Johns, then I bet they will try rehabilitate Whedon's image.
It was announced today that Tom Cruise has signed a new deal with WBD to create his own IP and film content with his own production company. Now it makes sense why he praised The Flash before it was coming out. It also fuels speculation that the new merger negotiations with WBD and Paramount will likely happen.
It's all part of a political game.