Batman Forever: Virtual Workprint

[thecolorsblend]

I really don't understand why Smith gets to show this edit for free without apparent consequence

I think the fact that it was shown for free helps.

Plus, let's face it, WBD is billions of dollars in the hole. There's a good chance that they can't afford a whole lot of lawyers.

But even with all that going on, I think someone from WBD was running interference for Smith. Because Smith isn't the kind of guy who would do something like this unless the copyright owner was providing air cover for him.

[The Joker]

My brother found this on reddit from one of Kevin Smiths screenings

The deleted scenes are reported to say Workprint 11/94

I also attended!

Nice! 


 

I'm going to be honest, maybe my memory is fuzzy due to how late at night... er, early in the morning it took place, but I don't remember Two-Face being all that different? I didn't think his delivery sounded all that different from his theatrical performance. I did notice that the dialogue, in general, sounded a bit different - some deliveries were less over-the-top, but they seemed like subtle changes.

I have a big list of notes that I took after I left the theater, for those interested - would love to see more from others who attended, and corrections due to my sh*tty memory. Warning, not very organized because I was rushing to write stuff down before I forgot:

•    ⁠Completely different score, perhaps a temp score, utilizing elements of Elfman's work from Batman and Batman Returns. Notable examples include the old Batman theme during the first suit-up sequence, some of the Red Triangle Gang's theme during certain action sequences, and my favorite, a few notes of Catwoman's theme playing after Chase references Catwoman, which concretizes the allusion (it's a real shame it isn't kept in the final release)

Having not actually seen this of course, I kinda assumed that Elfman's score was indeed used early on. How you describe the suit-up scene sounds just like how that scene was presented at the very start of the first teaser/trailer for "Batman Forever" The Catwoman theme notes sounds pretty cool as well.

•    ⁠Starts with the famous sequence at Arkham Asylum, in which Dr. Burton enters Two-Face's cell, finds a dead man hanging from the ceiling, and the graffiti "The Bat Must Die" on the wall
•    ⁠The opening is largely re-arranged. In this version, we go from the intro sequence at Arkham immediately to a slice of Bruce Wayne's life up in the tower, where he's swarmed with requests for various things by various secretaries. It's a lightly comedic scene. More interestingly, this directly segues into the scene where Edward Nygma presents his invention to Bruce and gets shot down for ethical questions, which serves as a pre-title sequence a la Batman Returns (the final film opens with the titles, just like Batman 1989). Because of this, the Bat-Signal summon that ends the scene isn't Chase trying to score a booty call, but rather, just a call for Batman to go to the bank that Two-Face is robbing. Thus, this version actually explains why Batman is there in the first place. (The "Bat-Signal as a beeper" sequence still happens, just later.)
•    ⁠The next major deleted sequence is after the first confrontation with Two-Face (saving the man from the acid trap), after Batman brings down the helicopter and falls into the water himself. A sort of quasi dream sequence follows in which Bruce hallucinates about his parents' deaths, with the voice echoing and overlapping. It's surreal and helps to establish the memories of his past that torment him. In general, the subplot about his memories works better in this version because we actually see the memories surfacing throughout the film.
•    ⁠Minor differences in certain scenes. Lots of dialogue appear to be different, less refined takes (pre-ADR?) These are generally inferior to the final version, usually offering less emotion and clarity. But, in some cases, they lack the over-the-top goofiness of the final version.
•    ⁠Some scenes are slightly extended. Notable examples:
    ⁠•    ⁠Two-Face gets additional dialogue at the bank before he meets Batman, including the "If the Bat wants to play, we'll play" line that was heard in some trailers.
    ⁠•    ⁠Two-Face also gets more screen time with Batman after the bank situation when they're both fighting on the helicopter, in which he refers to Batman as a killer.
    ⁠•    ⁠After Nygma kills his boss Stickley, the scene of him reveling in the murder and then menacing the security camera is a bit longer and showcases his sinister side a bit more as he rants about how much he hates Bruce and wants to make him pay. He takes a photo/article (something that depicts Bruce Wayne at any rate) and smashes it on the ground. Not too tonally different but makes the scene a bit creepier.
    ⁠•    ⁠After Robin is convinced to stay, the scene continues for just a bit longer, showing him follow Alfred back into the mansion and hold the door open for him
    ⁠•    ⁠Robin hitting Bruce in anguish continues for a little bit, and features Bruce stoically standing there and continuing to take Robin's blows while calmly telling him that he will do whatever he can to help. It seamlessly cuts to Robin's dialogue in the next scene, where he tells Bruce that in order to help, he should help him kill Two-Face.
    ⁠•    ⁠When Two-Face teaches Riddler to punch out guards and Riddler fails, Two-Face chides him for punching weakly and knocks out the guard himself.
    ⁠•    ⁠Bruce's second(?) meeting with Chase, in which she gives him the dream doll, starts earlier. It begins with an exterior shot of her office, while you hear Bruce having a conversation with her, and zooms in to reveal them. Notable dialogue includes a line in which Bruce says "thanks for the help with Dick." Quite a heartwarming little addition, and shows the extent to which Bruce cares for Robin and help him navigate his own trauma of seeing his family die.
    ⁠•    ⁠When Nygma taunts Bruce for being too cowardly to try the brainwave machine, he has an additional line emasculating Bruce in front of Chase.
    ⁠•    ⁠After Riddler forces Batman to choose between Chase and Robin and does the mock countdown, there's additional footage of Batman testing a step forward and finding that the floor in front of him is actually an optical illusion, with his foot going straight through the "ground" to reveal a pit. He gets additional dialogue, in which he deduces that "death surrounds him, everywhere" and that this isn't a choice he's meant to win at all.
    ⁠•    ⁠Riddler's final scene, in which he's gone insane and is visited by Chase, is extended a bit - just showing more of his insanity as he believes that he's Batman
•    ⁠The scene in which he has a manor date with Chase plays out differently, with different dialogue. In the Final Cut, this scene does most of the heavy lifting with Bruce's flashbacks, as he basically narrates to Chase how he became Batman. This flashback occurs after Chase knocks down a vase of flowers, triggering Bruce - the same thing happens in the work print but it's instead framed as just another flare-up. Some of the flashback footage used in this scene was originally shown in the much earlier flashback when Batman fell in the water after blowing up Two-Face's helicopter (namely, the footage of young Bruce falling down, though he isn't shown actually falling into the cave as in the final). Interestingly, in the work print, Chase doesn't seem to catch on that Bruce is Batman because both of them react to Bruce's flashback differently - he doesn't narrate his past, instead just telling her that "it's happening again" and the memories are coming back, and she just gives him generic clinical advice. Her finding out that he's Batman by comparing the kiss is not present at all.
•    ⁠Another major addition comes before the final battle, and is another well-known cut, in which Bruce enters the cave containing the old diary and confronts the giant bat. This occurs right after he gets knocked out and then wakes up. Due to the injury, he loses his memory temporarily, not remembering who Batman is while Alfred reminds him that he was knocked on the head. They head down to the Batcave where Alfred points out a cave entrance in the wall and Bruce asks what's inside. Alfred tells him that his fears are inside, and he encourages him to go in and confront his past. The entrance leads to a large, natural-looking cave (not built out like the Batcave itself) which has a swarm of bats on the ceiling that Bruce briefly acknowledges, before turning his attention to the ground covered in rocks/sand. He brushes aside some sand and uncovers the old diary that he has dreamed so much about. He opens it up, flips open to the final entry, and learns that his parents had actively chosen to watch a different movie than he wanted ("Bruce's cartoon will have to wait"). An emotional scene follows in which Bruce tears up, realizing that their death wasn't his fault, and he repeats "Not my fault... not my fault..." This both reminds him of his Batman identity and gives him the resolve to resume being Batman, whereupon the giant bat finally appears (though it seemed pretty clear to me that it was meant to be imagery/symbolism rather than the actual massive bat physically being in the cave with him). It flies towards him, gets a couple of close-ups revealing its grotesque, terrifying, snarling face (it's honestly pretty scary-looking with red glowing eyes looking straight at the camera). But Bruce stands and looks at it fearlessly, then the camera pans around them both as Bruce raises his arms to match the bat's. The scene ends with Bruce coming out of the cave, telling Alfred that he's Batman again, and ends with a cool visual of a flock of bats swarming out towards the camera.
•    ⁠The final addition, which is honestly pretty significant, is at the very end of the film (right before the shared ending of Batman/Robin running in front of the signal) - after Batman says goodbye to Chase, a scene shows Alfred talking to Chase in the car (shot in the style of similar scenes in the Burton films), in which she asks him if Batman's work is going to go on forever, which Alfred affirms. Chase's reaction to this isn't very clear, but she seems to smile and be okay with it.
•    ⁠Some scenes are missing. A notable example includes the final "epilogue" of the final fight in which Batman finds the drained Riddler who, frustrated, asks him how he can possibly be both Batman and Bruce. This scene is not present at all in the work print. The weird scene where Robin does "kung-fu laundry" is also not present.
    ⁠•    ⁠Two-Face's final scene, of the coin landing in his palm as it slides with his corpse under the water, is not present - in the work print, the last we see of him is just him falling down the shaft
•    ⁠More minor line omissions exist too, like the guard at the beginning not yelling "it's boiling acid!" In an over-the-top campy tone.

Appreciate the detailed notes for sure.

[Silver Nemesis]

He brushes aside some sand and uncovers the old diary that he has dreamed so much about. He opens it up, flips open to the final entry, and learns that his parents had actively chosen to watch a different movie than he wanted ("Bruce's cartoon will have to wait"). An emotional scene follows in which Bruce tears up, realizing that their death wasn't his fault, and he repeats "Not my fault... not my fault..."

Did this version of the film include the close-up shot of his father's journal when Bruce remembers reading it as a child? Specifically the part that makes him think his parents went to the cinema because of him? The fan edits I've seen include the "Bruce's cartoon will have to wait" shot later on, but not the earlier bit where his childhood self reads the first part of the journal entry. All the versions I've seen just show him opening the book and then running into the night with it, but they don't show the close-up shot of the journal entry itself.

[eledoremassis02]

Some tests someone made based off the information from the screenings.

[The Laughing Fish]

Some tests someone made based off the information from the screenings.

Thanks for the feedback on what you saw at the screening, I really appreciated it!

Aside from some key details, I get the sense the official director's cut isn't that radically different from the bootleg copy shared on this thread. I had a feeling that was the case, because the likelihood of footage hidden from the rest of the world with Tommy Lee Jones as a radically different Two-Face would've been a pipe dream.

I'm surprised to read Elfman's score appeared in some scenes. Was it because Goldenthal's music wasn't finished yet when this workprint was edited? Nevertheless, those edits adding Elfman's score really fit those scenes well.

[eledoremassis02]

[eledoremassis02]

This has some extra shots I have not seen before

[The Dark Knight]

The opening scene of Forever has it all. Batman as a horror monster myth (the thugs blasting the elevator doors), Batman as a gadget wielding martial artist, Batman as an escape artist, and finally Batman as a survivor. I like how it also serves as a major showcase for the villain - what he's capable of and his temperament under pressure.

[The Laughing Fish]

I read that WBD has licensed out a lot of DC movies to Tubi, the streaming service you can watch for free. If they were smart, they would've released the Schumacher cut on there and gotten the extra advertising money they desperately needed.

I don't see the Schumacher cut coming out any time soon, nor do I see Max (formerly HBO Max) having much of a future if WBD continues to license its content out to its competitors.

[The Laughing Fish]

I found this image on social media of Dick Grayson on his knees looking dejected as Batman consoles him, right after Batman scares off some goons and Dick lashes out at him. I've never seen this photo before, I wonder if the filmed footage exists in the vault.



Meanwhile, I saw this disappointing comment by comic book writer Ron Marz.



I wonder if he felt the same about Donner fans when they campaigned for the original cut of Superman II? I say let the audience demand for any director's cut to come out, particularly if it's purported to be better than the theatrical cut.