15 years of Batman and Robin

[Bobthegoon89]

Not much to add (Dark Knight has summed up for me) but I'm pleased some are respecting the Schumacher films finally. Even as a kid I knew Batman and Robin was nowhere near the same class as Batman Forever. I'd always defend them however. Keaton's were always my favourites in the nineties but I grew up with Schumacher's too (they were the first of the films I saw in cinema's). For a while in the nineties Batman Forever was not only the very best (and my personal favourite Bat film) it was even one of the greatest films ever seen. People now forget that. I wish fans would have the guts to admit more they enjoy them than go along with what others now feel about them. I'm no sheep who follows other opinions so I feel they are still great, fun entertainment. If your introducing a young kid to the joys of Batman I think you can do far worser that stick Batman Forever on with it's utterly wild action and comic book colours. I certainly wouldn't expose them to the deep, pretentious, "court room drama" world of the Bale films at first. Where's the fun in that?

As for Nolan I read a quote recently in which he praises Burton's Batman but felt the surreal world of those films could only be explored so far which is one reason he decided to bring in the real world based Batman idea. Ironically I think this quote applies in bucket loads to his concept too. The reality based universe has run it's course and is official dead in the Batcave's water supply. It completely drains the fun out of Batman in more ways than one. It's now time to re-enter the comic book styled Batman movie of times past and I don't know about you but I find that a hugely exciting future proposal.

[Azrael]

It's one thing to defend them as flawed movies with their own merits and entertainment value, and another to promote them as good films, placing them on equal footing with Burton's and Nolan's, this is my prime "problem"

[The Dark Knight]

It's one thing to defend them as flawed movies with their own merits and entertainment value, and another to promote them as good films, placing them on equal footing with Burton's and Nolan's, this is my prime "problem"

Which I am doing neither. I am placing them above Nolan by default, though.

[Vampfox]

This movies kind of a guilty pleasure to me. I saw it in the theaters as a kid with my Dad so it kind of holds a special place in my heart.

It's not the best superhero movie but it's one of those dumb fun movies where you can turn your brain off and not have to think too much.

[thecolorsblend]

Which I am doing neither. I am placing them above Nolan by default, though.

This would have been unthinkable to me even after TDK. But the older I get, the more I just want these things to be fun. Maybe there's enough seriousness, darkness and drama in other parts of my life. Maybe that's it. But there's a certain fun factor in being Batman that Schumacher seemed to easily connect to.

[The Dark Knight]

There can be fun in darkness. I get a kick out of Tarantino movies, Django Unchained being his latest. For example in that movie, two men are on the floor wrestling in a life and death match inside a luxurious bar. Leonardo Dicaprio and company are right into it, cheering, clapping and loving it. We hear bone cracks and the loser is finally finished off with a hammer blow. But it's the way it is handled. The juxtaposition and irony. It's not completely set one way. I suppose its like the Joker talking to a fried corpse laughing his head off. Sure, it is disturbing, but on another level it is funny. In my opinion there has to be a degree of colour. Call it camp, call it whatever. But it does add charm and a sense of fun.

[The Joker]

Indeed. Another good example from B89 is the Joker infomercial. Which, if watching it in a literal sense, is pretty disturbing. As viewers, who had just witnessed a news anchor fatally poisoned on live television, are then treated to a infomercial featuring the ghoulish images of two Gotham City models who were just previously announced as being dead, along with the 'Brand X/Smilex' comparison featuring a man who is tied to a chair and gagged (with a disclaimer reading "Not An Actor") is said to have been using Brand X ("Oh No!"), which then segues to a corpse with a rictus grin that further illustrates the effects of Joker's Smilex. Capped off by the obvious insinuation that Gotham's shopping products have already been poisoned, and that you, yes YOU, could be at risk!

However, with how this scene is presented, along with the overall tone and such, it comes across in a very comical way that adds to the overall charm. It's absolutely one of my very favorite scenes in the entire film itself, largely due to the unique way in how it was handled. As it is a VERY Joker moment that's straight out of the comic book source material, that, if handled by a different filmmaker, could have been directed with a decidedly different tone that in effect, would have lost that fun and charm the scene, thankfully, DOES have.

[illgetdrivethrough]

I miss the fun aspect.

[The Dark Knight]

Yep, I know exactly what you mean, Joker. Playing a straight bat to disturbing aspects as if it's nothing at all. Having glee for serious subject matters is scary and confronting. The commercial was a pure capture of the character.

[DocLathropBrown]

Indeed. Another good example from B89 is the Joker infomercial. Which, if watching it in a literal sense, is pretty disturbing. As viewers, who had just witnessed a news anchor fatally poisoned on live television, are then treated to a infomercial featuring the ghoulish images of two Gotham City models who were just previously announced as being dead, along with the 'Brand X/Smilex' comparison featuring a man who is tied to a chair and gagged (with a disclaimer reading "Not An Actor") is said to have been using Brand X ("Oh No!"), which then segues to a corpse with a rictus grin that further illustrates the effects of Joker's Smilex. Capped off by the obvious insinuation that Gotham's shopping products have already been poisoned, and that you, yes YOU, could be at risk!

However, with how this scene is presented, along with the overall tone and such, it comes across in a very comical way that adds to the overall charm. It's absolutely one of my very favorite scenes in the entire film itself, largely due to the unique way in how it was handled. As it is a VERY Joker moment that's straight out of the comic book source material, that, if handled by a different filmmaker, could have been directed with a decidedly different tone that in effect, would have lost that fun and charm the scene, thankfully, DOES have.

Yeah, that's a tone that resonates throughout Jack's entire performance. Just like the comic book chararcter... you don't see the danger of the Joker until you're already dead. He seems amusing on the surface... but it's a dark, thinly veild facade.

As such, that's why people do not realize just how dark/twisted Jack's Joker was. I run into this constantly at the comic shop I work at, or even online... it's why people think his Joker was 'camp,' because it's been forever since they watched the movie, and they weren't even paying close enough attention.

I mean, I've counted. Jack's Joker kills more people in the museum gassing scene alone than Ledger does in all of The Dark Knight.