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https://deadline.com/2019/08/the-matrix-new-movie-keanu-reeves-lana-wachowski-writing-directing-1202674278

So this is a thing that happened. A new Matrix film. Official announcement and all.

A few months ago, it came out that the Wachowskis were closing down their production studio because of a lack of projects to work on. Might this somehow be related to that? Who can say?

Either way, I've flip-flopped a lot on the Matrix trilogy over the years. I think I'll always like the first one. Those sequels though...

I'm seeing the original Matrix in cinemas soon for the 20th anniversary. Since I've been in that mood again I recently rewatched the sequels. If the overlong Zion scenes were trimmed down, I'd actually put Reloaded on near equal footing with the original. It has enjoyable action and interesting ideas, building upon what preceded it. The new characters were great.

Revolutions was essentially an add on just to finish the story, and it gets the most hate. But it also built upon Reloaded and introduced new concepts. The blind messiah, the train station, powers outside the Matrix and the non traditional ending. For whatever reason these films aren't to everyone's tastes, but I think the sequels hold up really well considering the rubbish put out today. I'm happy to fight their corner.

I'm so there for Matrix 4, and this news has come at exactly the right time for me. Reeves, Moss and other trilogy actors are coming back. There was talk of a Morpheus prequel, but this is a dream come true for the true believers.

It does raise questions of exactly how the story can continue. The Matrix itself is still needed. It's doubtful that the real world can support the entire population of the Matrix so most people will have to stay plugged in.

So what is the government inside the Matrix? What is the government outside it? How is society to be structured? What treaties and agreements will exist to maintain friendly relations between man and machine?

Is democracy even possible when humans are effectively living in a diaspora of willing enslavement?

No shortage of story threads for a new film. But it seems like the majority of the main story has been well and truly told. So I'm not sure what's left.

Further, I assume that more sequels will be coming since we obviously have to keep the gravy train going here. Idk, this could turn out well and it could turn out to be a disaster. I don't see "average" anywhere on the menu though.

I'm going out on a limb and guessing the title will be The Matrix Resurrection.

I think Neo and Trinity are dead physically, but their residual self-image will be reinserted into the Matrix by the Machines. The Machines did keep Neo's body, and also at the end of Revolutions the Oracle tells Sati she believes they'll see Neo again "someday".

It would make sense for Neo's resurrection to happen after a sustained period of time (about 17 years), and it would also align with the Oracle's statement of "someday". That would allow for a period of peace to have existed inside Zion, and it would also allow the truce to be gradually worn thin if that's the route the writers want to take.

I'm thinking perhaps the truce is maintained, with the humans and Machines working together ala Revolutions to combat an emerging common foe, ala Smith. That could possibly explain why Neo is needed again, and why his RSI is re-uploaded.

As for Trinity, it's logical to assume her body was also recovered after the crash. Or upon Neo's consciousness being reinserted, he asks the Machines – who he is on good terms with, for a favor. Something along those lines would be fine with me. Not too much of a stretch.

Check out the code of Seraph when Neo enters the teahouse in Reloaded. It's golden, because he's from the Source. The golden glow is the same color as the Machine City (01) in Revolutions, as Neo sees it. It's my belief Seraph was a previous version of the One, as tells Smith "I have beaten you before".

The Oracle being a program seems obvious now, but at the time it was somewhat revelatory, with her being another system of control. I could possibly foresee a twist that suggests The Oracle, Seraph and these characters were once human beings, with their shell/code only remaining. With Neo and Trinity now taking that form alongside them as pure RSIs.

Which makes me wonder about the power level of a re-inserted Neo. Does he regain what he once had, or is he merely well skilled, ala someone like Seraph? Is there another One out there in his place? The Machines are willing to tolerate people waking up, but at what point does that become too many? That could be another juicy plot to follow. I never considered the Matrix Online canon, so that can safely be ignored now.

Yes, the original is the best, but I restate my belief the sequels are underrated. I used to apologise for them, but not anymore. The mix of philosophy, social commentary, special effects and action is right up my alley. I'm hoping this means videogames and the whole shebang relaunch the brand. I have good memories of that era, and you have no idea how much I'd wanted this day to come. But I never realistically saw it happening.

I'm much more of a Matrix fan than a Star Wars fan now, especially after the Disney debacle. I just love how 1999 was also the year of The Phantom Menace and The Matrix. I know which film I prefer. It will come down to the script, but the necessary ingredients are being put in place.

I'll be following this project with great interest.

I'm wondering if the human government and whoever represents the machines won't be trying like hell to maintain the truce while hardliners on both sides (rogue agents inside the Matrix for the machines and military types like Lock for the humans) try restarting the war.

I can imagine that Exile programs like The Merovingian and others would love to see the war start again. If a new war breaks out, the machines and the humans won't be focused on the Exiles anymore.

There's a ton of world-building that the Wachowskis hinted at but never really developed all that much. The Matrix 1.0 (utopia) and Matrix 2.0 (the nightmare version) were both hinted at by The Architect but little is known about them. In fact, the amount of backstory that hasn't been fully revealed could probably fill up an entire movie all by itself.

I see a lot of story possibilities here. That's what I'm trying to say.

The Matrix Online had Morpheus raging against the Machines for not giving Neo's body back. Not a bad plotline, even if it's small scale. With about 17 years since Revolutions I think that idea has been and gone. It would've worked in a 2004/2005 era Matrix 4, but not now. Passing references would be fine to get viewers up to speed in any change in circumstances. But the current day is more important.

Spider-Man 3 gets trashed, and some people find it cool to trash that film, but I dig that film. It actually has an overabundance of ideas. Same goes for the Matrix sequels. When they are embraced instead of predicably shunned, they enrich the whole experience. 

The Architect's TV screens are visible in the original film. Zion is no longer just a word (it's a striking contrast to the digital world). And Smith becomes a better villain in terms of irony and character development. He called humans a stinking overpopulated virus, and that's what he becomes. To the point he takes the form of a real world human just to get at Neo...which is a terrifyingly brilliant concept.

Does Smith have a role in Matrix 4? Hard to say. But I'm open to it. Weaving is too good in that role. I'm hoping for Morpheus, Seraph and a bunch of other returning characters. But the fact Reeves is coming back is enough to excite people. He is a great example of a character possessing great strength but always being vulnerable as a MAN. Which is something the Superman franchise should embrace more often.

Neo always ends a film in jeopardy and with an alternated state of consciousness. In the first movie he's shot, killed and resurrected. The sequel, he passes out and goes into a coma. And the third film, blinded, his lover killed and himself killed.

What I dig more than coal is the fact an original director is coming back, along with original cast members. DisneyWars had original cast members but without the original creator's pure input. Nobody can seriously claim the Disney trilogy is the 100% intended continuation of Lucas, because it's not. Things would have played out very differently.

The same won't be said of The Matrix 4, and that should be welcomed. Reeves was adamant he was only coming back to the franchise if the Wachowskis were running the show. That's the same mindset Michael Keaton had with Tim Burton, or Christian Bale with Christopher Nolan. These are the types of partnerships that mean something.

There's a rumor the 1999-2003 Matrix trilogy exists in the world of The Matrix 4 either as a film series or a videogame. When I first heard that it took me a little while to comprehend the concept, but after consideration I love it. It's the type of out of the box thinking that appeals to me and I hope it's true. It contradicts nothing and works as yet another system of control. When a Matrix reboots the past cycles just become stories that nobody knows about. But the Machines would have some record of what transpired, like old data logs on servers. We already saw Neo's life was recorded and played on the Architect's TV screens during Reloaded. If there are video games or movies of the original trilogy in the new cycle, it could be a form of 'misdirection to blue pills who think the Matrix could in fact be real. That it's all just fiction. It's also a way to have the 'Matrix within a Matrix' concept without twisting established lore.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 22 Aug  2019, 10:26
Does Smith have a role in Matrix 4? Hard to say. But I'm open to it. Weaving is too good in that role.

Weaving said he's not in the film. Ultimately, I think this will work out for the best. Weaving is amazing but defeating Smith was the whole point of the original trilogy. For all I know his role could've been a cameo, but in any case we don't need another Rise of Skywalker situation on our hands. One threat passes and another emerges in its place.

https://www.timeout.com/london/news/hugo-weaving-explains-why-he-wasnt-in-avengers-endgame-and-wont-be-appearing-in-the-new-matrix-012020

Morpheus is going to be played by Yahya Abdul-Mateen II and not Fishburne. I now have a feeling some aspects of The Matrix Online will be retained, possibly explaining why Morpheus is younger - he has already been killed. I think part of the plot could be about Neo and Trinity being 'parents' to young Morpheus, inverting the first film where Morpheus was Neo's spiritual guide. If all three main characters are reinserted into the Matrix after their deaths, something with Morpheus' procedure may have differed, leading to this outcome with his RSI, and possibly making him a blank canvass. I feel like these characters won't be disrespected like Luke, Han and Leia. And I am confident the story will be justified and interesting.

Niobe is a lock. Lambert Wilson said The Merovingian is in the script and he's in discussions to return, which tell me we're looking at a proper continuation here. With any luck Persephone and a couple more return as well. The sequels introduced a ton of new characters, so doing the same here isn't a problem. In fact, I'd hold The Matrix sequels up as the prime example of how to grow a film universe while retaining original cast members. It felt so seamless. All in all, I'm excited to see where all this goes. Another rumor says it's the beginning of a new trilogy.

Back to the original trilogy - Reloaded is my favorite in the series. We see Neo at the peak of his powers and the action is better. IMO most people didn't like the sequels because they dabbled more deeply into the philosophical aspects that were only touched upon in the original. People responded favorably to surface level philosophy, but weren't ready for REAL philosophy. The Architect conversation is meant to be a weakness, but I see it as the film's best scene. Neo was told he was special for so long, but what the Architect told him instantly reduced that. Yes, he had powers, but they weren't meant to be forever. They had an end point, and others had already walked in his shoes. He realizes the Oracle didn't tell him about any of this and he was moments away from reloading the whole thing. Just as Morpheus comes to see the Oracle is just a program he has been blindly following. Reloaded's end scenes change the context of things for the characters in a big way.

I really dig the parallels Reloaded makes too:

M1 - Neo enters to save Morpheus in the finale, M2 – Trinity enters to save Neo in the finale
M1 - Trinity resurrects a dead Neo, - M2 – Neo resurrects a dead Trinity
M1 - Trinity has a secret (the person she loves will be the one), M2- Neo has a secret (Trinity will die)
M1 - In the Matrix, Neo meets Trinity at a nightclub as a stranger, M2 – In Zion, Neo meets Trinity at a rave as a lover
M1 - "If the war ended tomorrow, Zion's where the party would be", - M2 – rave scene
M1 - Neo ends film stopping bullets, M2 – Neo ends films stopping Sentinels
M1 - Smith calls humanity a stinking, overpopulated virus, M2 - that's what he becomes
M1 - Retro TV screens observing Neo's interrogation, M2 - the TV room revealed as the Architect's

Filming for M4 starts soon - hopefully more details trickle out as the weeks progress.

Filming has started. Here's a spy photo. Unless Reeves walking out of a restaurant or whatever is considered a spoiler, this is basically a spoiler-free thing. There's some conjecture as to the story elements of the film but nothing concrete.

https://www.indiewire.com/2020/02/matrix-4-filming-set-photos-keanu-reeves-1202209081/amp/

Something else. I hope this time that The Matrix gets more of an expanded universe than it got lost time. There were some video games, a few comics and the Animatrix thing. But otherwise, that's about it. This time there's a chance to create more of a multimedia project out of the Matrix universe, past, present and future. Novels, more comics, maybe a short run Netflix series or what have you.

Oddly enough, one of the issues I find myself most fixated upon is bringing Don Davis back to do the score. If this movie series has a John Williams, it's Davis.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri,  7 Feb  2020, 12:31
Something else. I hope this time that The Matrix gets more of an expanded universe than it got lost time. There were some video games, a few comics and the Animatrix thing. But otherwise, that's about it. This time there's a chance to create more of a multimedia project out of the Matrix universe, past, present and future. Novels, more comics, maybe a short run Netflix series or what have you.

Oddly enough, one of the issues I find myself most fixated upon is bringing Don Davis back to do the score. If this movie series has a John Williams, it's Davis.

Matrix merchandise is really special because there's not much of it. So when something new is announced I get really excited. I have all the McFarlane toys from 2003 still in their boxes unopened. I recently bought a 1/43 scale Lincoln Continental die cast model car that appears in the films, and have kept it in the Matrix packaging too. I already have the Art of the Matrix hardcover and the new Matrix comics hardcover, along with the two PS2 games. I am optimistic more merchandise will be produced closer to the new film's release.

There's been a lot of developments with filming in recent weeks and I'm right on top of it. I'm discussing it elsewhere and having a ball doing so. Seems clear to me Neo doesn't know his past and will have to be reawakened. Each Matrix film includes a search for Neo and I don't see this being any different. The Merovingian has also now been officially confirmed, which is fantastic.

This is my most anticipated film of 2021.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 29 Feb  2020, 00:13
Matrix merchandise is really special because there's not much of it. So when something new is announced I get really excited. I have all the McFarlane toys from 2003 still in their boxes unopened. I recently bought a 1/43 scale Lincoln Continental die cast model car that appears in the films, and have kept it in the Matrix packaging too. I already have the Art of the Matrix hardcover and the new Matrix comics hardcover, along with the two PS2 games. I am optimistic more merchandise will be produced closer to the new film's release.

I'd forgotten there were two Matrix PS2 games. I remember playing Enter the Matrix, but I never played Path of Neo.

One thing that stands out in my memory about The Matrix tie-ins was how they connected with the main films in a meaningful way. Enter the Matrix and The Animatrix both featured actors from the movies reprising their roles and Enter the Matrix included specially filmed live action scenes that took place concurrent with the movies.


The events of The Animatrix were directly referenced in the films, such as Neo freeing the 'Kid', or the Final Flight of the Osiris getting namedropped in The Matrix Reloaded. My favourite films from The Animatrix were The Second Renaissance Parts I & II.


There's some really excellent world building going on in these short films. They make a substantial contribution to the mythology and feel totally canonical. Compare that with something like Batman: Gotham Knight (2008), which didn't feel canonical and in no way impacted the films it was purportedly connected to. Hopefully the new Matrix movie will get some similarly high quality tie-ins to get fans hyped.

Enter The Matrix was way ahead of its time. It enriches Reloaded and was not a lazy cash in that most movie games tend to be. Having Niobe as the driver and Ghost as the gunner allowed a different perspective on the same story which actually warranted the player to experience the both of them.

The events of The Final Flight of the Osiris directly factor into the opening segment.

Ghost and Trinity were released from the Matrix roughly around the same time. He loves her, but she views him as a brother. As a result, Ghost chooses to live the life of a celibate monk. I find that rather fascinating.

Niobe clearly hasn't moved on from Morpheus based on her encounter with Persephone.

The mission to shut down the power plant is shown in great detail.

The captains fleeing the sewers is shown in greater detail.

The Keymaker had already tried to escape from the Chateau before Neo arrived, saving Ghost and Niobe. His key to the Architect is destroyed, and the key he ends up giving Neo is a reforge. Not knowing this during a viewing of Reloaded doesn't change anything, but I'm a really glad these side stories exist. It fits in cleanly to the timeline and gives the characters more material.

The Revolutions sequence of the Hammer racing back to Zion is so much better when you've played ETM. Niobe doing some of her best piloting and Ghost manning the guns.

With that said, Path of Neo, however, is my favorite game. It's not canon, but it gave the fans what they wanted: playing as Neo in a greatest hits type package. Both of the games are solid and I'm hoping we get another. A game set before The Matrix 4 or during it, ala ETM, would be great.

The Animatrix is not to be forgotten. The Second Renaissance is brilliant. Final Flight of the Osiris is also brilliant, and Kid's Story. The stories have a sophisticated depth to them that probably wouldn't satisfy general audiences, or would simply go over their head. The predictable meme is that the sequels 'sucked', but once I hear that I tune out. I really think we're in for something special with Matrix 4. A true science fiction story that RESPECTS the past and the characters. Lana doesn't bring the franchise back and play it safe.

The Second Renaissance is an essential part of The Matrix mythos. I might've preferred that the story be fleshed out as a live action feature. But that's not much of a criticism, really. When the most substantial complaint you have about a story is, essentially, that you wish it was longer, you're actually complimenting the storytellers.

Still, there are little chestnuts that I wouldn't mind seeing an Animatrix companion series explore. The Nightmare Matrix hinted at by Smith, The Merovingian and The Architect, for example. We never find out much about it but it sounds interesting.

My guess though is that any new peripheral media will most likely deal with story elements integral to Matrix 4. Which is sensible enough.

As a side note, is it too much to hope for that the original Matrix comics finally get released on Comixology? Those were some amazing stories in many cases.

The film has been delayed but my fire hasn't gone away. Even just this project would be enough to keep me satisfied cinematically for the next few years, but add in Keaton's return, ZSJL and The Batman? I'm eating very, very well.

I'm seeing things like this:

The Matrix: Birth
Reloaded: Life
Revolutions: Death
Matrix 4: Afterlife

The afterlife component being Neo and Trinity's mental insertion into the system, not knowing one another or their past, and reconnecting. Keanu has said the movie is "a bit of a love story", which is absolutely fantastic from my point of view. It places them high on the totem pole of importance. Imagine 'Trinity Definitely' playing during their courtship.

Filming has shown Neo (I think he'll be called Thomas again for the most part), walking up to an edge and rubbing his hands together, ala the original. This suggests he's waking up again and testing his abilities. And of course, we see a pair of people, who I assume to be Neo and Trinity, leaping off a skyscraper. Trinity, by the way, looks to be called Tiffany. The first time her civilian/non pseudonym name has been revealed. I like it. It expands upon the lore and feels like a natural progression given the name she later adopts.

I'm really thinking Morpheus has been killed since the events of Revolutions. I'm unsure if this will be a standalone film or a new trilogy. But if it's a new trilogy, I wouldn't rule out an appearance in a fifth or sixth film. Or at least a reference in 4 about what has happened. But as it stands, while I love Morpheus, Neo and Trinity are the true heart and soul of the franchise.

Details have been revealed that state payphones won't play a huge role in the film, if it all. Which shows the world has continued on from 2003 without reverting back to 1999, and it's the modern current day. For a second I felt a little hurt by this revelation, given just how iconic those phones are in the franchise. But then I had to stop and check myself. This is great news. The whole point should be doing something fresh with the concept, unlike DisneyWars. I'm interested to see how they tackle it.

It's been revealed Zion is also going to look different in terms of evolution, which I'm eager to see. I don't think many people know Zion was dug out by the Machines, even though the concept makes complete sense. The red doors are meant to resemble the red pods in the fields. I think it's brilliant – I hate the Matrix within a Matrix theories, and this strikes a nice balance. You get out of the Matrix, but even then, Zion was created by the Machines, and you're essentially still a slave staying in your new quarters.

Apparently The Twins are back too, which I really hope is true. It would fit with the Merovingian's return.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 11 Sep  2020, 03:00
The film has been delayed but my fire hasn't gone away. Even just this project would be enough to keep me satisfied cinematically for the next few years, but add in Keaton's return, ZSJL and The Batman? I'm eating very, very well.

I'm seeing things like this:

The Matrix: Birth
Reloaded: Life
Revolutions: Death
Matrix 4: Afterlife

The afterlife component being Neo and Trinity's mental insertion into the system, not knowing one another or their past, and reconnecting. Keanu has said the movie is "a bit of a love story", which is absolutely fantastic from my point of view. It places them high on the totem pole of importance. Imagine 'Trinity Definitely' playing during their courtship.

Filming has shown Neo (I think he'll be called Thomas again for the most part), walking up to an edge and rubbing his hands together, ala the original. This suggests he's waking up again and testing his abilities. And of course, we see a pair of people, who I assume to be Neo and Trinity, leaping off a skyscraper. Trinity, by the way, looks to be called Tiffany. The first time her civilian/non pseudonym name has been revealed. I like it. It expands upon the lore and feels like a natural progression given the name she later adopts.

I'm really thinking Morpheus has been killed since the events of Revolutions. I'm unsure if this will be a standalone film or a new trilogy. But if it's a new trilogy, I wouldn't rule out an appearance in a fifth or sixth film. Or at least a reference in 4 about what has happened. But as it stands, while I love Morpheus, Neo and Trinity are the true heart and soul of the franchise.

Details have been revealed that state payphones won't play a huge role in the film, if it all. Which shows the world has continued on from 2003 without reverting back to 1999, and it's the modern current day. For a second I felt a little hurt by this revelation, given just how iconic those phones are in the franchise. But then I had to stop and check myself. This is great news. The whole point should be doing something fresh with the concept, unlike DisneyWars. I'm interested to see how they tackle it.

It's been revealed Zion is also going to look different in terms of evolution, which I'm eager to see. I don't think many people know Zion was dug out by the Machines, even though the concept makes complete sense. The red doors are meant to resemble the red pods in the fields. I think it's brilliant – I hate the Matrix within a Matrix theories, and this strikes a nice balance. You get out of the Matrix, but even then, Zion was created by the Machines, and you're essentially still a slave staying in your new quarters.

Apparently The Twins are back too, which I really hope is true. It would fit with the Merovingian's return.

Matrix 4 sounds like a breath of fresh air for all the reasons you mention.

I was never a fan of the whole Matrix Within A Matrix fan theory. For one, it nullifies the peace Neo brokers at the end of Revolutions. For two, it's cheap BS that removes all drama and peril from the proceedings. For three, it makes Zion itself redundant since, as you say, Zion has already been factored into the machines' plans and was initially created by the machines. The MWAM theory basically renders the entire trilogy obsolete since the machines have basically won and that's that.

It is my understanding that the Wachowskis said from the start that all Matrix video games are genuine canon and that any future Matrix film (or whatever) would take the video games into account. That was said back in, like, 2004 or something. So it is possible that there are clues (or at least sign posts) in those video games that fans should consider.

There are also the rumors about time travel figuring into the story. They're making the rounds. Is it possible that machine hardliners went full Skynet by sending an assassin back in time to eliminate Morpheus before he could make contact with Trinity and Neo? That might explain his apparent absence from the film. Speaking of nullifying the entire trilogy, it simply seems a little too similar to Terminator. People can say anything they want about Reloaded and Revolutions. But one thing nobody can accuse the Wachowskis of is blatantly ripping off a hugely successful film series like Terminator.

Separately, there was apparently some kind of effort made to bring Hugo Weaving back as Smith. When it comes to the Red Skull, V, Elrond or others of Weaving's more famous characters, he's made it clear that he's not really interested in reprising any of those roles. He's done. But he has said (repeatedly) that he would happily return as Smith. And that was even the original plan! The issue, though, was that Weaving had a massive scheduling conflict with Matrix 4. And so, Weaving had to decline. For that reason alone, the character has been written out of the film. Nevertheless, I find it telling that Smith was originally intended to be included. One can only wonder what role he might've played.

And since COVID has thrown literally everything up into the air, who's to say that Smith might not appear in M4 after all?

One thing that I hope the movie at least touches upon is the history. From the looks of things, M4 is designed to move the characters and the story forward. You don't get there by dwelling too much upon the backstory. Still, there are many questions left unanswered in the trilogy, not least of which relate to the Merovingian's true identity/nature. His lust for power and control is self-evident. His function as a necessary evil that the machines and the rebels must accept is also obvious. But less obvious is what exactly his history is. Theories abound that the Merovingian is essentially the OS from Matrix ver. 2.0 (The Nightmare Matrix), hence his adamant refusal to account for the element of free will. It's an interesting theory (and one I happen to subscribe to, frankly) but specificity in this would be welcome. But not mandatory.

CGI, action scenes, gun battles, martial arts fights, etc, have all been done to death in action cinema recently. Specifically, it's a bit much to hope for something in M4 that's equally as culturally resonant as Bullet Time was in its day. Therefore, I don't need Another Bullet Time gimmick. Over and above everything, I would want the world to be expanded upon in a way that's just as invigorating as the sequels were.

And honestly, considering what Neo and Trinity sacrificed to bring about peace, I would want them to have some kind of happy ending.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 16 Sep  2020, 05:40
There are also the rumors about time travel figuring into the story. They're making the rounds. Is it possible that machine hardliners went full Skynet by sending an assassin back in time to eliminate Morpheus before he could make contact with Trinity and Neo? That might explain his apparent absence from the film. Speaking of nullifying the entire trilogy, it simply seems a little too similar to Terminator. People can say anything they want about Reloaded and Revolutions. But one thing nobody can accuse the Wachowskis of is blatantly ripping off a hugely successful film series like Terminator.

I don't think it would be time travel in the traditional sense. We're dealing with a computer system. It may be revisiting old versions of the Matrix, or Neo being shown information about the past, much like the training program scenes from the original. I'm up for any of that.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 16 Sep  2020, 05:40
Separately, there was apparently some kind of effort made to bring Hugo Weaving back as Smith. When it comes to the Red Skull, V, Elrond or others of Weaving's more famous characters, he's made it clear that he's not really interested in reprising any of those roles. He's done. But he has said (repeatedly) that he would happily return as Smith. And that was even the original plan! The issue, though, was that Weaving had a massive scheduling conflict with Matrix 4. And so, Weaving had to decline. For that reason alone, the character has been written out of the film. Nevertheless, I find it telling that Smith was originally intended to be included. One can only wonder what role he might've played.

I'm sure I've said here I'm actually happy Smith isn't coming back. Neo made a deal with the Machines to stop Smith. IMO the Machines are okay with shenanigans going on ala the Merovingian, but a system crash is where they draw the line. After what Smith did in the sixth cycle, permanent deletion of him makes complete sense. What he did was  catastrophic - why risk the slightest suggestion of that again? The culmination of Revolutions should mean something, rather than going down the Palpatine situation ala Rise of Skywalker.

Plus, I get the feeling Weaving is kind of difficult to deal with. Seems to me he was being difficult with money negotiations and voicing what he wanted, and Lana just substituted Smith with a new villain without much hassle. 

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 16 Sep  2020, 05:40
And honestly, considering what Neo and Trinity sacrificed to bring about peace, I would want them to have some kind of happy ending.

I harp on about DisneyWars but it's so true. I'd rather a couple die as a cherished memory for the fanbase than become Han and Leia of The Force Awakens. Doubling down on their love is going to warm the heart of Matrix fans. Their relationship is the core of the original film's concept, and then the sequel when Neo chooses the other door. 

Lana is saying the film has its roots in transgenderism. Keanu Reeves said he didn't know. I think it could have some merit, but is overstated. I believe Lana is trying to reclaim a sense of ownership of the franchise from conservatives who like the red pill trope. It doesn't really bother me too much, to be honest, because the themes are broad to the point Keanu and many others were oblivious. I do see perhaps the original concept of Switch being applied somewhere, though.

Enter the Matrix is a so-so video game, rushed, glitchy and unpolished. However, the story is quintessential to liking the sequel films, especially Revolutions, where things become emotionally distant if you cannot invest in Niobe, which you can't do without the game. She's a character that barely has a name in Reloaded, and suddenly, in Revolutions she becomes one of if not THE most important character. Revolutions' goal is to live out the quote 'the path of the one is made by the many.' In other words, the supporting cast are more important that the trio of stars because destiny is bull (the One is just another layer of control) so you have to make it yourself. Niobe is the conduit by which we invest in the many, and we can't do that without the HEAPING PILES of characterization that occur in the game. Her encounter with the Oracle is a set up moment that shouldn't have been held as an off screen occurrence in Revolutions. We need to see it, not only does it make the moment where she makes the choice to help Neo a bigger, more affecting payoff, it also provides a nice thesis moment (a primer) for what we are about see in Revolutions.

I have a lot to say about the Matrix (I'm a SUPER FAN), but those are my thoughts for now.

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Wed, 16 Sep  2020, 14:59
I have a lot to say about the Matrix (I'm a SUPER FAN), but those are my thoughts for now.

I (and, I'm sure, TDK) look forward to more of your thoughts on this subject.

First, just another stab at my previous post:

One really important scene in Ener the Matrix (aside from Niobe and the Oracle) is the sequence when Niobe lets her armor come off (so to speak) when she returns home to Zion about midway through the game. She has a scene with Lock that gives one new insight into the relationship. It also bridges into the scene in the movie where Niobe volunteers to look for Morpheus. That this scene wasn't in the movie staggers me. I say that because it was years before I completed my copy of EtM (frustrating game) and doing so changed my entire (negative) view of Revolutions. Lock and Niobe in their quarters, two heavily armored personalities unshielded and loaded with character. What the hell were Lana and Lilly thinking?! This is the moment Niobe exists, and Lock, a cliche one-note heavy, is suddenly a real person. I still don't like him and I disagree with the choices he makes, but in the case of Niobe, he makes his choices for love. I respect him as a leader who has no choice but to forever be Morpheus' nemesis. It is his lot in life, and he must present a realistic alternative to lofty ideals about Christ figures who will solve everything with a wave of their hands.

Sexual Liberation:  Short version is that there are all kinds of liberations going on, I mean honestly...it's the Matrix.

The long version is that sexuality (in the Matrix, you joke makers) is one of the things I've become more interested in very recently. It began as an interest in the Merovingian, who is probably the most compelling character in the whole of the franchise, next to B116ER. I was thinking about what he does. As a gangster, he is a jack of many trades, many dealings, but the role of coyote for the machine exiles is of course paramount, but the full measure of its importance lies unexpressed (but present) in the background.

It is here that I need to connect two scenes. One is the Zion Orgy and the other is Club Hel. Both are expressions of sexual liberation. The humans express it in a united, earthy, hippie fest that is relaxed and groovy. The machines express it (and this is the kicker) as taboo. They fetishize humanity and its expressions as a kink. We are already aware that a (mostly unseen) rebellion is occurring within the machine society. The Oracle, Rama Kandra, Kamala, and Sati are the primary looks at it, but Club Hel is also an expression of that rebellion. Merv's position as an asshole is what taints it, but even Persphone once admitted that he was not always this way. It is entirely possible that he was a Neo kind of liberator for the machines before personal interest necessitated that he sell it for personal gain. Either way, a segment of machines are trying to get in touch with their human sides, but because the machine society has rebuked the humans as evil, the expression of it is fetishized as something naughty, something you don't want to be caught doing.

And all of this is important because it is part of the underlying story that (for lack of better phrasing) the machines have digital souls, they are, in fact human. To better understand this, we go back to the beginning, before the war.

The Second Renaissance (see Animatrix) begins with a summation, a concise characterizing of what the story is about. God created man and imbued him with life and so to did man imbue the machine with life. In the beginning, as a slave race, the machines looked human. As things went bad, the machines saw to it that as they gained their independence and freedom they shed what they considered to be the traits of their slavers wholesale, and in doing so set in motion the rebellion within. Humanity was inherent to the machine. They repressed it. Visually you see the transition as the Second Renaissance goes on. What was once human goes as far is it can to the other end of the spectrum of complex lifeforms. The most unhuman looking thing in the world is the spiderific creatures our eyes register as aberrations of what should be the reality. A dog and cat can be easily anthropomorphized because of the easy symmetry your eyes deduce.

Anyway, my point is the machines were human. It was inherent to them. They repressed it and it is exploding out in different ways at the time of the 6th One (I'm so freaking pretentious). The hierarchy of the machines is blind because they act like they are mathematicians, spocking out cold solutions with indifference and they yet cannot easily spot the meanness that lurks in the presentation. The hideous indignity of what's been done to the humans could only have been done by something, someone, that feels. They are blind to Smith, who is the most repressed tight ass in the world. There's a guy who needs to get in touch and have a drink at Club Hel.

Anyway, they'll be more to come...I'll talk about what I think 4 will be about and touch briefly on the trans stuff in the original trilogy.

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Wed, 16 Sep  2020, 17:53
The long version is that sexuality (in the Matrix, you joke makers) is one of the things I've become more interested in very recently. It began as an interest in the Merovingian, who is probably the most compelling character in the whole of the franchise, next to B116ER. I was thinking about what he does. As a gangster, he is a jack of many trades, many dealings, but the role of coyote for the machine exiles is of course paramount, but the full measure of its importance lies unexpressed (but present) in the background.

Agreed. Of all the supporting characters in the film, he's instantly one of the most interesting. Lambert Wilson gave an electrifying performance but I think the character would still be a treasure trove even if a different, lesser actor played the part.

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Wed, 16 Sep  2020, 17:53
It is here that I need to connect two scenes. One is the Zion Orgy and the other is Club Hel. Both are expressions of sexual liberation. The humans express it in a united, earthy, hippie fest that is relaxed and groovy. The machines express it (and this is the kicker) as taboo. They fetishize humanity and its expressions as a kink. We are already aware that a (mostly unseen) rebellion is occurring within the machine society. The Oracle, Rama Kandra, Kamala, and Sati are the primary looks at it, but Club Hel is also an expression of that rebellion. Merv's position as an asshole is what taints it, but even Persphone once admitted that he was not always this way. It is entirely possible that he was a Neo kind of liberator for the machines before personal interest necessitated that he sell it for personal gain. Either way, a segment of machines are trying to get in touch with their human sides, but because the machine society has rebuked the humans as evil, the expression of it is fetishized as something naughty, something you don't want to be caught doing.

We're going there, are we? Okay then.

Club Hel. As above, my view is that the Merovingian is the OS for Matrix 2.0. The Nightmare Matrix. This version follows after the Utopian Matrix (ver. 1.0) that Smith described in the first movie and precedes the version of the Matrix we see in all three films (ver. 2.0). The Nightmare Matrix basically featured people living out scripted, preassigned lives. They were compelled to obey no matter how much they didn't want to. Because the rules of this iteration of the Matrix were predicated upon cause and effect rather than free will. The Architect says "... but I was again frustrated by failure". So, obviously the Nightmare Matrix was unsuccessful just like the paradise version had been. The introduction of choice in ver. 3.0 resulted in a Matrix that was basically functional, tho still not quite perfect.

The Merovingian, the OS of the Nightmare Matrix, never really got over the amount of control and power he once wielded and has since lost. He wants it back. That desire for absolute control defines his every word and action. Looking around his chateau, it even determines a lot of his interior design as well as his staffing decisions.

Club Hel, as you say, is a fetishization of sexuality. Specifically, the Merovingian's vision of human sexuality. And I find it telling that the Merovingian's conception of sexuality is BDSM, which is defined by power and control. As a program in general and the Nightmare Matrix OS in particular, BDSM is probably the only way he can get his head around the idea of sexuality. In his mind, sex has to be about one person dominating another. I don't think he would understand (or be comfortable with) the idea of two people happily and willingly, ahem, giving themselves to each other. In his worldview, it doesn't work that way. It can't work that way. Because choice is a completely unthinkable concept to him. Hence, BDSM is probably the only expression of sexuality he can envision.

Which, not to put too fine a point on it, says rather a lot about his sex life with Persephone, assuming they have such a thing. And who knows?

To take things deeper, the Merovingian LARP's as a hedonist. But I think his anger is eating him alive. Deep down inside, he knows he was meant to be something bigger and better than an information broker, a coyote, a fetish nightclub owner, etc. Those things don't do justice to his grandeur. He wielded genuine power once and I don't think he'll ever stop trying to regain it.

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Wed, 16 Sep  2020, 14:59
Enter the Matrix is a so-so video game, rushed, glitchy and unpolished. However, the story is quintessential to liking the sequel films, especially Revolutions, where things become emotionally distant if you cannot invest in Niobe, which you can't do without the game. She's a character that barely has a name in Reloaded, and suddenly, in Revolutions she becomes one of if not THE most important character. Revolutions' goal is to live out the quote 'the path of the one is made by the many.' In other words, the supporting cast are more important that the trio of stars because destiny is bull (the One is just another layer of control) so you have to make it yourself. Niobe is the conduit by which we invest in the many, and we can't do that without the HEAPING PILES of characterization that occur in the game. Her encounter with the Oracle is a set up moment that shouldn't have been held as an off screen occurrence in Revolutions. We need to see it, not only does it make the moment where she makes the choice to help Neo a bigger, more affecting payoff, it also provides a nice thesis moment (a primer) for what we are about see in Revolutions.

Absolutely. ETM enriches the whole experience in a substantial way. A full play through gives more context in terms of how the story links together, obviously, but I've always been glad they included the cinematics on the Blu-ray/4K releases. And the 4K releases are mind-blowing. Do you have them? The original looks how it should. I couldn't imagine the movies looking any better. Watching them this way supercharges the fandom in ways I can't describe.

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Wed, 16 Sep  2020, 14:59
I have a lot to say about the Matrix (I'm a SUPER FAN), but those are my thoughts for now.

Excellent! Really interesting thoughts expressed here. Looking forward to reading more.

I was thinking recently about people who take the blue pill, the simple but cool simplicity of it. The comics show that the person simply does as Morpheus says in the film - they take it and wake up in their bed sometime later. It's a sedative and they absolutely remember the encounter, and can live with regret. But the opportunity is gone, and the resistance likely don't engage with them again. I like this because it's not a mind wiping situation ala what Cypher was seeking. Or alternatively, the blue pill taker thinks the encounter was a dream and "believes whatever they want to."

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 17 Sep  2020, 06:59
Club Hel, as you say, is a fetishization of sexuality. Specifically, the Merovingian's vision of human sexuality. And I find it telling that the Merovingian's conception of sexuality is BDSM, which is defined by power and control. As a program in general and the Nightmare Matrix OS in particular, BDSM is probably the only way he can get his head around the idea of sexuality. In his mind, sex has to be about one person dominating another. I don't think he would understand (or be comfortable with) the idea of two people happily and willingly, ahem, giving themselves to each other. In his worldview, it doesn't work that way. It can't work that way. Because choice is a completely unthinkable concept to him. Hence, BDSM is probably the only expression of sexuality he can envision.

Which, not to put too fine a point on it, says rather a lot about his sex life with Persephone, assuming they have such a thing. And who knows?

And of course The Merovingian gives the woman the orgasm cake and meets up with her immediately afterwards. "She wasn't kissing your face, my love."

Neil Patrick Harris recently said his role is minor, and about Lana: "I think she has a great inclusive energy and her style has shifted visually from what she had done to what she is currently doing." Sounds great to me.

Keanu has confirmed it's set after Revolutions, and he's also doubling down on the love story theme: "We have a wonderful director, Lana Wachowski, and she has written a beautiful script that is a love story, it's inspiring. It's another version, a call to wake up and it has some great action. All will be revealed."

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sun, 20 Sep  2020, 00:58
Absolutely. ETM enriches the whole experience in a substantial way. A full play through gives more context in terms of how the story links together, obviously, but I've always been glad they included the cinematics on the Blu-ray/4K releases. And the 4K releases are mind-blowing. Do you have them? The original looks how it should. I couldn't imagine the movies looking any better. Watching them this way supercharges the fandom in ways I can't describe.

Haven't yet upgraded to 4K hardware, although oddly enough it was the Matrix that first interested me in doing so. I think I'm just waiting now until they add the fourth movie to an updated collectors edition so that I can snag it. As it stands, my bluray set is one of my most prized possessions. The amount of content is staggering. Sad note though, I'm mad that I got rid of the DVD sets, as the DVD artwork was beautiful.

On the subject of the comics, A life Less Empty is the story you're referring to. A nice comic, though more effective if you haven't yet seen the first movie. I do have the 20th Anniversary Edition of the comics, which includes more unreleased material than previous volumes. It was released with no fanfare, but it is hardbound, beautiful, and includes a forward from 2019 penned by Geof Darrow that mentions the return of the franchise. I cannot recommend it enough.

I think I'm as exited by the prospect that the expanded universe might return. I hear tell (from the screenwriter that prompted WB to strong arm Lana into doing another IE do the movie or WB uses this screenwriter's concept) that the ANIMATRIX is being heavily discussed for a return as a series. Also, 4 is an attempt to restart the franchise and establish a universe going forward that is bankable.

Next time I post, I'll have some story theories for 4.

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Mon, 21 Sep  2020, 17:05
Haven't yet upgraded to 4K hardware, although oddly enough it was the Matrix that first interested me in doing so. I think I'm just waiting now until they add the fourth movie to an updated collectors edition so that I can snag it. As it stands, my bluray set is one of my most prized possessions. The amount of content is staggering. Sad note though, I'm mad that I got rid of the DVD sets, as the DVD artwork was beautiful.

I liked the artwork for the day and date DVD releases for the sequels. The DVD mega set from 2004 or 2005 was awesome as well. However, the older I get, the less I care about BTS stuff, commentaries and the like. Just give me the movies.

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Mon, 21 Sep  2020, 17:05
On the subject of the comics, A life Less Empty is the story you're referring to. A nice comic, though more effective if you haven't yet seen the first movie.

Really? Not sure I agree with that. Watching the original in theaters back in 1999, I reasoned that Neo couldn't have been the first person that Morpheus had made contact with. There had to be other would-be recruits. And some of them had to have chosen the blue pill. I always wondered what their stories might be like and I think A Life Less Empty plays better with the original film in the background. At least for me.

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Mon, 21 Sep  2020, 17:05I think I'm as exited by the prospect that the expanded universe might return. I hear tell (from the screenwriter that prompted WB to strong arm Lana into doing another IE do the movie or WB uses this screenwriter's concept) that the ANIMATRIX is being heavily discussed for a return as a series. Also, 4 is an attempt to restart the franchise and establish a universe going forward that is bankable.

My quibble with the comics and other stuff is (A) there was never very much of it and (B) it seemed like that material was created mostly to fill the void between the first two films.

I thought the franchise always had far more potential than a relatively small collection of (admittedly cool) comic books and a smattering of video games, most of which take place during Neo's era. The story of the first One as an ongoing title (or at least a 12 issue maxi-series) seemed so obvious and yet it's never happened afaik.

Star Wars had a virtual cascade of comics, novels, video games and all that stuff going for years. I never needed The Matrix to compete with that but something more than what we ultimately got would've been welcome, even (or especially) after Matrix Revolutions.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon, 21 Sep  2020, 21:13

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Mon, 21 Sep  2020, 17:05
On the subject of the comics, A life Less Empty is the story you're referring to. A nice comic, though more effective if you haven't yet seen the first movie.

Really? Not sure I agree with that. Watching the original in theaters back in 1999, I reasoned that Neo couldn't have been the first person that Morpheus had made contact with. There had to be other would-be recruits. And some of them had to have chosen the blue pill. I always wondered what their stories might be like and I think A Life Less Empty plays better with the original film in the background. At least for me.

I meant from the standpoint of it being essentially promotional material, from the "ooo, ooo, what's the Matrix?" A lot of the early comics were ostensibly promos for the movie. A Life Less Empty came out a day after the film hit theaters. Don't disagree with your points at all, just saying the 'not knowing' is part of the story's (and a lot of the others) appeal.

Yahya Abdul-Mateen II: "My reaction to the script [was], 'Wow, people are really gonna like this. I like this. People are really gonna like this.' It's different and it's the same, you know, at the same time. It's a really, really very intelligent blend of what we want and what we may not know that we want."

https://collider.com/the-matrix-4-yahya-abdul-mateen-ii-lana-wachowski-script/

Arguably off-topic.

But speaking of criminally missing scenes, the bit near the end of Reloaded where the five ships get taken out by SmithBane's premature EMP has got to be somewhere in the top five. I don't believe in "Show, don't tell". I think that's almost an arbitrary rule that somebody pulled out of his ass. We don't need to see Lex Luthor's gang kill two night watchmen and steal the Kryptonite from the museum in Addis Abbiba in STM. We don't need to see Ugarte kill the Nazi couriers and steal the letters of transit in Casablanca. We don't need to see Batman do the detective work to figure out the secret behind the Joker's cosmetics poison in B89.

And the reason for we don't need to see those things is because they're not really crucial to the movies in question. You can summarize them because they need to happen but they don't really need to be seen. Those movies are about the effects of those events; not the events themselves.

But SmithBane taking out the five Zion ships needs to be seen in Reloaded since the first, what, HALF of Revolutions somewhat revolves around that plot point. Since SmithBane never got much development in Reloaded, the audience needs to see that (A) SmithBane really is Smith (B) Lock attempted a counter-attack against the machines and (C) SmithBane intentionally foiled it.

A quick little summary of events after the huge revelations of Reloaded just doesn't cut it.

Since we're talking about SmithBane, I also never approved of his reveal just before credits roll for Reloaded. He's shown upside down. SmithBane isn't terribly recognizable on the first viewing anyway. But he's even less recognizable shown upside down. I remember people in theaters walking out asking "Who tf was that last guy just before the credits?!" Your audience should not be asking themselves that question, esp since he's a minor but pivotal baddie in the next film.

Don't get me wrong, the trilogy does far more right than it does wrong. I've said on numerous occasions that something about Revolutions has captured my focus and imagination since the day it came out in theaters. But those two creative decisions in Reloaded have always puzzled me.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 24 Sep  2020, 00:43
But SmithBane taking out the five Zion ships needs to be seen in Reloaded since the first, what, HALF of Revolutions somewhat revolves around that plot point. Since SmithBane never got much development in Reloaded, the audience needs to see that (A) SmithBane really is Smith (B) Lock attempted a counter-attack against the machines and (C) SmithBane intentionally foiled it.

I think it plays well with the scene of The Vigilant being destroyed.

Morpheus says "Tonight is not an accident. There are no accidents." Which is delicious irony given what then happens, with the blood running down the monitor providing a doomed resemblance of the Matrix code. Which suggests the prophecy isn't as foolproof or as destined as we were originally led to believe. And there's more of that to come.

At that point in the story, the focus is on helping Neo open the door. What happened on board The Vigilant was a genuine accident. When the other captains hear about Bane being the sole survivor of another hovercraft massacre they are suspicious, especially Boland.

Because we don't see the sabotage, was this another accident like before? They aren't sure. Bane is on trial, and the captains and the audience are the jury. His villainy is outright confirmed in Revolutions. I think that progression plays well, and builds tension as to when we will finally see the guy snap.

The Matrix 4 is coming to HBO MAX on December 22, 2021.

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Thu,  3 Dec  2020, 21:33
The Matrix 4 is coming to HBO MAX on December 22, 2021.

Well, we're getting the film no matter what next year then. Which is great. I assume WB will do the same with The Batman as well, meaning it's absolutely going to make its 2022 date. Delays should be a thing of the past with this release format. I'll absolutely be doing the cinema experience, but HBO Max will always be there afterwards.

The Matrix Resurrections, you say?

https://screenrant.com/matrix-4-title-resurrections-revealed-keanu-reeves-neo

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 31 Jan  2021, 04:53
The Matrix Resurrections, you say?

https://screenrant.com/matrix-4-title-resurrections-revealed-keanu-reeves-neo

I was close.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 21 Aug  2019, 09:49
I'm going out on a limb and guessing the title will be The Matrix Resurrection.

Good title. Fits in with the other sequels and feels right. The obvious choice is usually the best choice.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sun, 31 Jan  2021, 07:31

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 31 Jan  2021, 04:53
The Matrix Resurrections, you say?

https://screenrant.com/matrix-4-title-resurrections-revealed-keanu-reeves-neo

I was close.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 21 Aug  2019, 09:49I'm going out on a limb and guessing the title will be The Matrix Resurrection.

Good title. Fits in with the other sequels and feels right. The obvious choice is usually the best choice.

Not sure how literally to take the "resurrection" thing. But to be totally honest about it, the resurrection bit sounds a lot more appealing to me than the time travel rumors that were floating around at one point. (A) Time travel to bring Neo back somehow just seems cheap and (B) there's rly no path left for him but a truncated version of what he's already done.

But a "resurrection" offers Neo new dramatic turf.

His death is implied but hardly explicit in Revolutions. I think that's the most logical interpretation of what happened.

But another way of looking at it is that he was knocked unconscious by the Matrix's reloading process. So perhaps when he came to, the machines quietly reinserted him into the Matrix so that he could enjoy the rest of his life as Thomas Anderson in obscurity without the baggage of having to be the greatest war hero of all time? I liked that idea and I think it would've appealed to Neo. He never came off like the happy warrior to me. He did what he did because nobody else could but I don't think he would've necessarily chosen to be what he became.

Still, resurrection means something. And resurrections also means something. If nothing else, the concept of some sort of resurrection deepens the religious themes the saga dabbled with from the very beginning.

Suffice it to say, this movie is a lot more interesting to me now. And I was already pretty interested.

EDIT- Apparently, I've been asleep at the wheel because the release date for this son of a son is December 22, 2021. For some reason, I had assumed it'd been delayed some time in 2022.

But hey, this year works just fine for me.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 31 Jan  2021, 07:56
Still, resurrection means something. And resurrections also means something. If nothing else, the concept of some sort of resurrection deepens the religious themes the saga dabbled with from the very beginning.

The ending of Revolutions heavily broadcasts a resurrection. A rising sun with the Oracle confirming Neo will eventually return. A month or so back there was a visual spoiler that made me question one of my theories, which was Neo simply came back exclusively as a program.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 31 Jan  2021, 07:56
EDIT- Apparently, I've been asleep at the wheel because the release date for this son of a son is December 22, 2021. For some reason, I had assumed it'd been delayed some time in 2022.

Yep. It's coming out this year, no matter what thanks to HBO Max. If they make more movies, I's keep the December release schedule. Make it an event like LOTR. And I've seen talk they may do a TV series extension as well. Not sure how legit those rumblings are, but fingers crossed. At the moment I'm just wanting a trailer. Should be fairly soon, you'd think.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Mon,  1 Feb  2021, 00:54

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 31 Jan  2021, 07:56
Still, resurrection means something. And resurrections also means something. If nothing else, the concept of some sort of resurrection deepens the religious themes the saga dabbled with from the very beginning.

The ending of Revolutions heavily broadcasts a resurrection. A rising sun with the Oracle confirming Neo will eventually return. A month or so back there was a visual spoiler that made me question one of my theories, which was Neo simply came back exclusively as a program.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 31 Jan  2021, 07:56
EDIT- Apparently, I've been asleep at the wheel because the release date for this son of a son is December 22, 2021. For some reason, I had assumed it'd been delayed some time in 2022.

Yep. It's coming out this year, no matter what thanks to HBO Max. If they make more movies, I's keep the December release schedule. Make it an event like LOTR. And I've seen talk they may do a TV series extension as well. Not sure how legit those rumblings are, but fingers crossed. At the moment I'm just wanting a trailer. Should be fairly soon, you'd think.

The HBO Max angle interests me. Greatly.

As to other films, I never needed a sequel to Matrix Revolutions. But since we're getting one, I very much savor the idea of exploring this thing fully, perhaps even with a fifth and sixth installment. A TV show (presumably also on HBO Max) is another good idea. Even if it's only tangential to the films. Hell, maybe especially if it's tangential to the films. Parallel media can do a lot to shade in the worldbuilding suggested by the main film series.

A YouTuber who has been right on things before (apparently) uploaded what he called a full plot of the film, and it has now been pulled by the studio. I gave it a listen before that happened and transcribed what he said just in case. I'm really happy with the premise, if it's legit. I think there's a good chance it is, personally. It lines up, makes sense and feels like a celebration of the franchise and the main characters while also expanding the story. The trailer has to be coming soon.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 18 Jun  2021, 23:45
A YouTuber who has been right on things before (apparently) uploaded what he called a full plot of the film, and it has now been pulled by the studio. I gave it a listen before that happened and transcribed what he said just in case. I'm really happy with the premise, if it's legit. I think there's a good chance it is, personally. It lines up, makes sense and feels like a celebration of the franchise and the main characters while also expanding the story. The trailer has to be coming soon.

My inbox is wide open.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 18 Jun  2021, 23:45
A YouTuber who has been right on things before (apparently) uploaded what he called a full plot of the film, and it has now been pulled by the studio. I gave it a listen before that happened and transcribed what he said just in case. I'm really happy with the premise, if it's legit. I think there's a good chance it is, personally. It lines up, makes sense and feels like a celebration of the franchise and the main characters while also expanding the story. The trailer has to be coming soon.

I would consider you a personal hero if you DMed me a copy!

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Sat, 19 Jun  2021, 01:37

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 18 Jun  2021, 23:45
A YouTuber who has been right on things before (apparently) uploaded what he called a full plot of the film, and it has now been pulled by the studio. I gave it a listen before that happened and transcribed what he said just in case. I'm really happy with the premise, if it's legit. I think there's a good chance it is, personally. It lines up, makes sense and feels like a celebration of the franchise and the main characters while also expanding the story. The trailer has to be coming soon.

I would consider you a personal hero if you DMed me a copy!

I'm not that anyway?

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 18 Jun  2021, 23:45The trailer has to be coming soon.

The release date is December 2021. So, very soon would be my guess.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 19 Jun  2021, 05:14

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 18 Jun  2021, 23:45The trailer has to be coming soon.

The release date is December 2021. So, very soon would be my guess.

SDCC is going on now. I haven't heard anything about a Matrix 4 trailer. I'm starting to wonder what the game plan is here.

Still, there was a point when movie trailers were coming out almost a year before the movie. So, I like how things are different with The Matrix 4. Everyone is keeping their powder dry until later on and that works pretty well for me.

At this equivalent point before The Matrix Reloaded's release, we had already seen the Superbowl trailer and had some idea of the story (multiple Smiths, the machines are digging, etc.) whereas The Matrix 4 is keeping stuff a lot closer to the vest.

In some ways, this is unfortunate. Since it probably means the expanded universe I was hoping for probably won't happen. But at least the story isn't getting splashed all over the place right now. I think that will ultimately be a good thing. If the movie itself is good, that is.

Anyway. The wait continues...

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 25 Jul  2021, 21:35

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat, 19 Jun  2021, 05:14

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 18 Jun  2021, 23:45The trailer has to be coming soon.

The release date is December 2021. So, very soon would be my guess.

SDCC is going on now. I haven't heard anything about a Matrix 4 trailer. I'm starting to wonder what the game plan is here.

Still, there was a point when movie trailers were coming out almost a year before the movie. So, I like how things are different with The Matrix 4. Everyone is keeping their powder dry until later on and that works pretty well for me.

At this equivalent point before The Matrix Reloaded's release, we had already seen the Superbowl trailer and had some idea of the story (multiple Smiths, the machines are digging, etc.) whereas The Matrix 4 is keeping stuff a lot closer to the vest.

In some ways, this is unfortunate. Since it probably means the expanded universe I was hoping for probably won't happen. But at least the story isn't getting splashed all over the place right now. I think that will ultimately be a good thing. If the movie itself is good, that is.

Anyway. The wait continues...

I listened to a short clip recently with Tarantino describing the experience of seeing The Matrix for the first time at the premiere. Nobody really knew what it was about, but there was anticipation and a sense of electricity in the room. Apparently M4 uses a similar structure to the original, with the plot beats coming together in the finale. Keeping footage scarce can help achieve a similar mystique. But a slam dunk trailer has to be released at some point, even if it's just one. I don't think the trailer delay rules out expanded universe content. If they didn't officially announce M4 we wouldn't have even known it was coming. So things can change very quickly. Spider-Man fans are also pacing the room wondering when No Way Home trailer is going to drop.

My guess for a trailer is August or September. The pandemic altered promotion schedules, especially WB stuff, what with the direct to MAX model. 4 months or so seems to be typical right now.

From a totally separate thread...

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Mon, 23 Aug  2021, 23:09The trailer should've been released long ago, and I hope the same doesn't happen with The Matrix 4 (Resurrections).

I officially have no idea what's up with Matrix 4 at this point. Not even a teaser yet and we're, like, four months away? Weird.

I know, I know, Bleeding Cool. But I saw it posted there first.

https://bleedingcool.com/movies/matrix-resurrections-full-title-cinemacon-first-trailer-description

QuoteMatrix 4 Title Revealed, The Full Title Is The Matrix Resurrections

Matrix fans are glued to the coverage coming from CinemaCon right now, and our own Kaitlyn Booth is there and reporting back that the full title for the fourth installment of the franchise has been revealed. The Matrix Resurrections will be the official title, and with that, the first trailer was shown as well. The footage described showed that Neo (Keanu Reeves) and Trinity (Carrie Ann Moss) meet in a coffee shop, but apparently they do not know each other. Most of it takes place in what we should think is The Matrix. Neil Patrick Harris is playing Neo's therapist, and there were blue pills in the sink where neo ages in a mirror from young to old, when a younger version of Morpheus grabs him, hands him a red pill and says "Time to fly".

As expected, and the trailer content lines up with the leaks.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-features/matrix-4-batman-dune-warner-bros-1235002600/

Fasten your seatbelt, Dorothy, because Kansas is going bye bye.

The time travel rumors seem to make more sense now. It doesn't seem like time travel but, based on the description, I think I can understand how that confusion came about.

Sounds promising.

"Meanwhile, Reeves' Thomas spends his days taking prescription blue pills, and wondering why everyone in his world is glued to their phones — looking around and realizing he's the only one on a crowded elevator not looking at a device."

Absolutely delicious.

This is exactly the social commentary I'm after. And I'm glad the blue pills are still so prominent in the mythology. I had fears wokeness would creep in somehow in regards to this element, so I'm relived it hasn't. Super exciting.

They should have released the trailer publicly last night. I know they are leery releasing it near Spider-Man, but the Cinema Con response was strong and the net exploded because there was a large portion of the public that DIDN'T KNOW Matrix was coming back at all, and they were instantly galvanized. The Matrix could have stolen the thunder.

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Wed, 25 Aug  2021, 13:41
They should have released the trailer publicly last night. I know they are leery releasing it near Spider-Man, but the Cinema Con response was strong and the net exploded because there was a large portion of the public that DIDN'T KNOW Matrix was coming back at all, and they were instantly galvanized. The Matrix could have stolen the thunder.

I must agree. The strategy so far has apparently been keeping their powder dry until later on. But there is such a thing as waiting too long to begin actively promoting the movie. I mean, I get that the coof threw all their marketing plans into the air. But they've had over a year and a half to adjust to that reality. It doesn't make much sense to wait very much longer.

Rn, people are still talking about Spider-Man when they could be talking about The Matrix. It doesn't have to be that way. Even now, they could release the trailer and move straight to the front of the line.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 25 Aug  2021, 14:43

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Wed, 25 Aug  2021, 13:41
They should have released the trailer publicly last night. I know they are leery releasing it near Spider-Man, but the Cinema Con response was strong and the net exploded because there was a large portion of the public that DIDN'T KNOW Matrix was coming back at all, and they were instantly galvanized. The Matrix could have stolen the thunder.

I must agree. The strategy so far has apparently been keeping their powder dry until later on. But there is such a thing as waiting too long to begin actively promoting the movie. I mean, I get that the coof threw all their marketing plans into the air. But they've had over a year and a half to adjust to that reality. It doesn't make much sense to wait very much longer.

Rn, people are still talking about Spider-Man when they could be talking about The Matrix. It doesn't have to be that way. Even now, they could release the trailer and move straight to the front of the line.

Indeed. Even at this point when there are now rumors suggesting that WB is considering a delay so it might be exhibited theatrically (a big win considering Wachowski stock hasn't been high since the peak of the first Matrix and Lana remains a big financial risk) you need to put the images of the new Matrix (trailer, promotional images) into the minds of an audience that is apparently ready for the franchise to come back, to say nothing of that fact that the sequels are in the midst of a big fat resurgence. Everybody seems to 'get it' now.

I say..fine delay it, cower at the might of the Mouse. I get it. Multiverse is gonna rock the world. but give me a trailer. I suspect that the numbers will be strong. Very strong.

There's reactions online but this one stuck out for me:

QuoteThe minute I saw of The Matrix 4 was epic. It looks like it might even over-deliver.

Keanu Reeves looks fantastic as Neo. Neo & Trinity were WRECKING SH!T by the end!!! Motorcycles, helicopters, rocket launchers, jumping off buildings in incredible slow-mo.

MATRIX IS BACK!

https://twitter.com/BrandonDavisBD/status/1430339414966759428

I think there could be something to the studio waiting to see if a release is financially viable. The Suicide Squad bombed. No Time To Die is meant to be good, but will it make the money they want? Doubtful. These films were made to be seen on the big screen, and the experience outside of that setting just isn't the same. I want to see Resurrections and I loathe delays. But I also want it to be an event that gets the attention and results it deserves.

But how long do we wait for that?

Buckle your seat belt, Dorthy...

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E-r2O7OVIAcpGLY?format=jpg&name=900x900)

A teaser is floating around on Twitter.

https://twitter.com/JohnnySobczak/status/1435276095180492806

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E-sgNqDUYAIW3oI?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E-siJ8aUcAcJRu-?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E-siIATUYAAEk6Q?format=jpg&name=large)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E-sijWaUcAUH2m_?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)

There are other teaser variations. Here's a compilation of three more.

https://twitter.com/GeekLawGrad/status/1435290171986087945

The interactive angle is very clever, and I think it blows Spider-Man away quite honestly.

It should be noted that the official poster says 'only in cinemas.'

Edit: Correction. Only one poster says that, the others still promote HBO and the official twitter account is still holding to the HBO MAX release.

For the record, the red pill and blue pill teasers can be seen at https://thechoiceisyours.whatisthematrix.com but that wasn't apparent to me when I posted a couple of days ago.

Anyway. So, today's the day. The full trailer. We'll see how this goes.

Oh yeah, something else.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri,  7 Feb  2020, 12:31Oddly enough, one of the issues I find myself most fixated upon is bringing Don Davis back to do the score. If this movie series has a John Williams, it's Davis.

Oof. So, the long and the short of it is that Don Davis isn't coming back. Rather, the film will be scored by Johnny Klimek and Tom Tykwer. This bit of news was announced a couple of days ago.

https://filmmusicreporter.com/2021/09/07/johnny-klimek-tom-tykwer-scoring-lana-wachowskis-the-matrix-resurrections

Honestly, I'm rather disappointed in that. But the show must go on, I guess.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eC4PI9y6AVQ

I'm not going to get spoilerific, but the trailer confirms all the details I've read about the movie. This is a shiny and polished trailer being towed by a vintage Aston Martin or Rolls Royce. The themes we're all accustomed to are there, but what strikes me above all else is how fun it feels. It's brighter (check the last scene of Revolutions for reference), the cinematography is gorgeous and in terms of raw power, this seems to be Neo's strongest filmic depiction. We've seen telekinesis abilities before, but they seem to be supercharged even further. Honestly, with the way they're doing the callbacks, and with Neo and Trinity back together, this feels like a victory lap for the franchise. If it really does end here, I'm sure to be leaving the cinema feeling good.

Going purely off the trailer, I'm getting "Jurassic World" vibes. Where the numerous call back scenes from the original 1999 Matrix are quite evident, and readily apparent.

Which is probably for the best. Considering the mixed reception both the sequels got back in the day. Personally, I don't really mind those movies. Plus 2003 Monica Bellucci was determinately the word "desire" personified.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 10 Sep  2021, 00:09
I'm not going to get spoilerific, but the trailer confirms all the details I've read about the movie. This is a shiny and polished trailer being towed by a vintage Aston Martin or Rolls Royce. The themes we're all accustomed to are there, but what strikes me above all else is how fun it feels. It's brighter (check the last scene of Revolutions for reference), the cinematography is gorgeous and in terms of raw power, this seems to be Neo's strongest filmic depiction. We've seen telekinesis abilities before, but they seem to be supercharged even further. Honestly, with the way they're doing the callbacks, and with Neo and Trinity back together, this feels like a victory lap for the franchise. If it really does end here, I'm sure to be leaving the cinema feeling good.

Wondered if I was the only one who noticed that the green coloring for Matrix stuff is gone, as it was at the end of Revolutions. It's a very telling creative choice.

Quote from: The Joker on Fri, 10 Sep  2021, 00:43Going purely off the trailer, I'm getting "Jurassic World" vibes. Where the numerous call back scenes from the original 1999 Matrix are quite evident, and readily apparent.

Agreed. One quibble I always had with the sequels was how clean and crisp they looked. The original had lots of grimy alleys, rainy streets, filthy rooftops, etc. whereas the sequels mostly seemed squeaky clean by comparison. I love that the trailer showed more grit and rain and atmosphere.

No doubt about it, the trailer rly has won a LOT of good will for the movie. Not bad for a franchise that was considered down for the count back in November 2003.

I really hope, due to the Matrix movies being put back into the spotlight with "Matrix Resurrections", that someone posts the entire collection of the 2003 Powerade tv spots featuring one of the Agents that ran around the time "Matrix Reloaded" was in theaters.

Had to do some digging, but according to this vintage article, there were 4 separate 30 second Powerade tv spots, with 2 (I assume) tv spots being edited down to 15 seconds, and the 60 second Theater Powerade ad that ran in theaters.

https://www.adweek.com/brand-marketing/matrix-personifies-wiedens-powerade-push-63812/

The theater Powerade Agent ad is available on some of the official releases of "Reloaded" and franchise collection sets. I think there was a featurette that incorporated footage from the various Powerade Agent tv spots, but it was edited to hell. Some people have posted a few of the spots on youtube, but unfortunately, there's a couple that remain elusive for the time being. Hopefully, that'll change. Those tv spots were hilarious!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxtpYawmc6I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVoRpjAqqhA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Flff4k_YNUE

Never was totally comfortable with the product placement, tbh.

Still, that first ad resulted in a pretty memorable moment in theaters. An ex gf and I went to see some movie (X2?) and such was the anticipation to see The Matrix Reloaded that after the agent said "We have quotas to meet", some guy in the crowd hollered "Neo's gonna kick your @$$!" and the crowd in the theater actually cheered.

Never seen that before, never seen it since. But I saw it (or heard it, anyway) that night.

Hmm. It's funny the stuff you remember.

Honestly, I think it was with X2 that I had a 1st date with a girl who I ended up dating for about 6 months. I distinctly remember seeing the trailers for HULK 2003 (with her whispering a suggestive comment in my ear following that teaser trailer, which is probably another reason why it's a vivid memory lol), and 28 Days Later. When we saw "Matrix Reloaded", it was either our 2nd or 3rd movie night out (although I really want to say it was the 2nd), where we unexpectedly ran into 3 friends of mine. So we all ended up sitting together in the theater right next to one another. Seems like it was then that I watched the Matrix Powerade minute promo with the Agent guy for the first time, but I may very well be mistaken. I do remember possibly seeing the "Freddy vs Jason" trailer for the first time, and "The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen". With the latter being memorable, mainly because one friend doing a quick Sean Connery impression after the trailer ended, which was something of a running joke between us. Plus, I think it was just a few weeks later that Peta Wilson hosted the great "Comic Book Superheroes Unmasked" documentary that aired on the History Channel that summer (subsequent airings exclude her hosting segments).

Only other experiences that can vaguely compare, is that I distinctly remember a good number of people standing up and clapping at the end of a midnight showing for Spider-Man 2, and/or attending a screening of TMNT 2007, with some goofball screaming, "YyeeEEAaaaH!" after the FF2 Rise Silver Surfer trailer ended, with pretty much everyone at that screening looking at him like he's an idiot.

Going back to the summer of 2003, there was perhaps a Disney animated movie or something that was off my radar that had a ton of merchandise and/or product placement, but whenever I think of that time, it sure seemed like stuff for "Matrix Reloaded", and "HULK" was everywhere.

Outside of "Terminator 3", green was a popular color that summer.

Quote from: The Joker on Sat, 25 Sep  2021, 01:29Going back to the summer of 2003, there was perhaps a Disney animated movie or something that was off my radar that had a ton of merchandise and/or product placement, but whenever I think of that time, it sure seemed like stuff for "Matrix Reloaded", and "HULK" was everywhere.

That's the way I remember things going too.

I'll add that until I went to the midnight premiere of TDK, I had NEVER been to anything remotely close to The Matrix Reloaded premiere. To be fair, I didn't go to The Phantom Menace midnight premiere so who knows how that went down? But The Matrix Reloaded midnight opening was freaking insane. People running around in black trench coats, girls dolled up like Trinity all over the place, some forward-thinking actual twins were dressed up like the Twins, on and on and on.

People can say what they like about Reloaded's critical reception and the aftermath and all that. But for pure excitement and anticipation, Reloaded is (now) second only to TDK in terms of sheer bonkers insanity and glee that I've ever witnessed for a new movie's opening night.

And that rly seemed to be the peak. The marketing push for Revolutions was more subdued. It's almost a chicken or egg type of thing. Were people tamped down because of Reloaded shock, hence Revolutions marketing was scaled back? Or was Revolutions marketing scaled back, leading people to be tamped down? It's hard to say after all these years. But like I say, Reloaded's midnight premiere was a thing of legend for me for a long time.

I love reading stories like that. Sounds like it was a one hell of a positive experience! I'm kinda picturing this like the opening theater scene in "Scream 2". Only it's a bunch of Neos/Trinitys, rather than a bunch of Ghostfaces running around, and no Jada Pinkett getting stabbed to death.  ;D

I agree that "Matrix Revolutions" marketing really did come across as noticeably more subdued than that of "Reloaded". Why that was is a pretty good question... Most people, from what I remember, that I spoke to about "Reloaded" liked it overall. It was only on the internet that the reception came across as being more negatively received. To me, it was a heck of a spectacle of a movie. CGI was continually getting better and better, and "Matrix Reloaded" surely pushed the then-capabilities to the very limit. I still remember imagining a Superman vs Brainiac drone androids scenario during the Neo vs 100 Agent Smiths fight scene in "Matrix Reloaded" when I initially watched it.

By far, the longest line I've ever was in when attending a midnight showing was with "Star Wars Episode III" back in 2005. There's a Wal-Mart that's like right across the street from the local theater, and the line stretched alll the way over there. I am not entirely sure if that's ever happened before, or since around here to be perfectly honest. I missed out on a "The Dark Knight" midnight showing (weirdly the local theater to me didn't even bother with a midnight showing for "Batman Begins" in 2005, which was first shown for a evening showing), but I did attend a "Dark Knight Trilogy" screening in 2012 where "The Dark Knight Rises" would play at midnight following "Batman Begins", and "The Dark Knight" (with intermissions included). I think it started like at 6pm, and we didn't get out till about 3am or later. Pretty cool experience. Tons of people, and some were in costume. Unfortunately, I get home and pretty much find out about the Aurora, Colorado incident which pretty much dampened the feeling of, I guess you can say, exhilaration I still had at the moment.

I always remember that a student managed to take the day off school to see Reloaded. For whatever reason I couldn't do that. But I remember that being a huge deal, as if this person would be laying their eyes on something almost mythical. The first movie was a special effects extravaganza and everyone knew the storytelling devices were mind bending. People knew the movie would be pushing boundaries and perhaps even revolutionize the genre. The anticipation was huge. As a youngster I enjoyed the movie, and for a period of time I bought into the sequels sucked narrative. Freeing myself of those chains was liberating, because as an adult I appreciate it on another level.

Honestly, Reloaded is my favorite Matrix movie even though the original is a stone cold classic. I don't hate Revolutions but I think Resurrections can surpass it. Whether or not it eclipses the first two films remains to be seen. I'm just after a good movie that honors the brand.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 25 Sep  2021, 03:48Honestly, Reloaded is my favorite Matrix movie even though the original is a stone cold classic. I don't hate Revolutions but I think Resurrections can surpass it. Whether or not it eclipses the first two films remains to be seen. I'm just after a good movie that honors the brand.

I've had a complicated relationship with the trilogy over the years.

One criticism that I stand by is how the style of bullet time went from being a very clever, unique and original effect in the first film mutated into something that looks like slow-mo CGI in the sequels. Not sure if those shots actually are CGI. But they definitely look like it. The reality-warping nature that bullet time had in the first film is therefore lost in the sequels.

The ideas, meaning, philosophy and all that other stuff is wide open for debate. But I maintain that the bullet time effect suffered in the sequels.

The poster

(https://i.redd.it/lx8jvavji6081.jpg)

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 17 Nov  2021, 19:43
The poster

(https://i.redd.it/lx8jvavji6081.jpg)

I like it, especially when you consider the recent trend of busy Harveyweird posters. This is clean and clear, with Neo in his rightful place at the front. It's the first time we've seen Neo and Trinity in their glasses too. It's hard to believe in a month's time I'm seeing a brand new Matrix movie.

Trinity as Trinity is awesome. We've really only really seen goods looks of her as a blue pill.

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Wed, 17 Nov  2021, 22:40
Trinity as Trinity is awesome. We've really only really seen goods looks of her as a blue pill.

Carrie-Anne Moss and Sigourney Weaver are two female leads I respect. They're pioneers. My appreciation of Moss is why I'm willing to go along with any girl power in Resurrections. Plus, I think the movie is what we need right now. Instead of killing iconic characters and leaving the cinema depressed, we're getting the exact opposite. Bring them back to life, stronger than ever. I'm so ready for it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNpvWBuTfrc

It is now apparent that the leaks were correct. I'm fine with that. Looks like a great movie.

Surprised they're releasing another trailer now. But hey, works for me. Great trailer.

The leaks are indeed true and I'm glad they are. I think the time jump justifies the fourth film and makes things different enough while being familiar. Morpheus is here, but an echo played by another actor. The Merovingian is here, but he looks like a vagrant. Niobe is here, but she's decades older. Smith is here, but he has a new face. I can see the latter being more difficult for people to accept, given the iconic power of Weaving's performance.

However from a story point of view, any new shell was justified when The Oracle was recast for Enter The Matrix and Revolutions. We've also had a Weaving impersonation with Bane in the sequels, so it's not completely out of left field. I was against Smith returning because it doesn't make his defeat in the third film final. But this recast somehow puts a new slant on my perspective. He's back, but it also feels like he's kind of not. The way I see it, all the characters shine on in some fashion, whereas Neo and Trinity essentially remain themselves. Constants against a changed world.

Story aside, this movie looks incredible. In terms of audio I've listened to the soundtrack. It doesn't speak to me at the moment, but that may change upon seeing it matched with the visuals. The standout moments are the very few times Don Davis' sound gets referenced. All in all, I think we're in for a solid film. It should be entertaining and rewarding at the very least. Fingers crossed for the box office and any future plans.

I read the leaks ages ago but I don't have an immediate recall of them. Just as well since the movie is so near.

Anyway. Now seems like as good a time as any to float a fan theory about goings on with Trinity in Resurrections.

But first...

To set the table, Neo is the sixth One. There were five before him. And I think we can safely assume they chose the door to the right. They returned to the Source, their One code was temporarily returned to the Source for analysis, it was given back to that One and then he chose people from the Matrix to rebuild Zion. That's the script and they all followed it. Except Neo.

I think it's implied in the existing movies that each One modifies the One code (perhaps subconsciously, perhaps not) in his own way as he makes progress to The Architect's office. That's why The One has to temporarily surrender the code. The Source needs to analyze how the newest One altered the code for his own purposes/survival before returning it to that One. The system wants to understand choice and The One is sort of the posterboy for choice in that universe.

Thing is, Neo never returned his One code to The Source. He chose the door to his left, kept his code, some stuff happened and the war ended. But The Source never saw Neo's code. Therefore, it doesn't know how to better account for choice in the future.

And it will have to account for choice in future versions of the Matrix. Because the earth as we see it in the trilogy is simply not capable of sustaining all the human life connected to the Matrix.

Now, I speculate that the Matrix has been constantly looped with only small modifications here and there since the end of the war. Real improvement hasn't been possible. So, essentially the system has been running Last Known Good Configuration ever since the sentinels bugged out of Zion.

But Neo has still been alive and still interacting with the artificial world of the Matrix this entire time. By now, his One code is probably far beyond anything the system could possibly predict or account for anymore. Even if they had the chance to analyze his code, Neo is probably just plain too powerful for the system to survive anymore without The Source getting a chance to analyze Neo's One code directly.

Spoiler- That might be way The Matrix film from 1999 appears to be an in-universe film in Resurrections.

Neo is subconsciously influencing the Matrix in ways the system itself can't control.

Here's my theory. Something has to be done. So, the system or a programmer or somebody has done a dirty hack and split some amount of Neo's code and given it to Trinity. The idea is that Trinity is the other half of Neo's soul (and vice versa). Sooner or later, they'll find their way back to each other. Trinity doesn't have the psychological faculties to alter the code. And with his as much as half his code missing, Neo should pose less of a challenge to the Matrix's stability.

Thus, when the time is right, the system can summon both of them to The Source, reclaim the code, stabilize the system in any way necessary and FINALLY stabilize the Matrix the way it should've been stabilized at the end of Reloaded.

Or I could be completely wrong.

Either way, my theory above does harmonize with some of the leaks that I remember. It's not spoiler stuff (except where marked above) but it's something that's been on my mind for a while.

A brief clip but it does do some interesting world building for the movie. Very enjoyable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlDr6aKBtFg

Seeing the score play against the visuals makes me like it more. It's different to Don Davis but seems appropriate. As for the content of the clip I remain very optimistic as a fan of all three movies. I can't see it being anything other than a love letter to Neo, Trinity and the fanbase. If the critics aren't on board with that then I couldn't care less. Most still don't get the sequels. This is our time, not theirs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOwhPe_O0-o

Just a tech demo! If only it were a full game! I posted this version because it has a free roam period that looks good.

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Fri, 10 Dec  2021, 17:25
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOwhPe_O0-o

Just a tech demo! If only it were a full game! I posted this version because it has a free roam period that looks good.

Looks excellent. I could be wrong but it doesn't seem like the multimedia resurgence is coming for The Matrix, at least yet. Which could be a good or bad thing. Good in the sense you don't know when you've dodged a bullet (ha) with something mediocre polluting the sanctity of a franchise. But bad in the sense more content would be welcome, but providing it was good. The Matrix is a big brand, but whether I like it or not, the sequels turned some people off. If Resurrections can win them over, perhaps enough confidence could be restored and the rest will follow.

Certain leaks seem confirmed by this "featurette". It's rly more like a quick teaser, probably 50/50 of previously seen footage and new footage. Worth a look.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9fmz5-ih6c

I'm honestly surprised. I won't get specific about leaks and spoilers and all that stuff yet. But The Matrix Reloaded and Revolutions were under lock lamf. Nobody knew ANYTHING about those movies aside from stuff that was officially announced. Literally, zero spoilers existed for the sequels. So, I find it surprising that all this stuff about Resurrections got out. Says a lot about how much more connected the world is now as compared to 2003.

For anyone interested, the Cinema Wins guy has covered the original Matrix trilogy as part of the build up to Resurrections.

I'd say they're all worth watching as he points out some details that even I never noticed before.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl-pFXc5Zz4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jt2ldf5ecUU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7X8xyd01Rho

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mKK_hXeLGg

Clip released on Saturday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pt7wJpR-SuM

The critical reaction is mixed. I have to say predictably. People who hated Reloaded and Revolutions also critiquing Resurrections don't scare me. They adhere to the narrative that the original is the only good film in the franchise (Reloaded is my favorite) and use "difficult to understand exposition" as complaints. If they can't understand the plot that's their failing - I've understood the films fine.

The movie is meta, meaning it references the recent trend of sequels and itself being a sequel, and according to the critics this is disrespectful to the franchise as it's comedic in tone. Breaking the fourth wall is very Matrix-y, and if it makes relevant points I'll probably like it. What I do know from the details is that the original characters are respected, past canon is adhered to and the film has a feel good vibe. As The Oracle said, I'll "make up my own damn mind."

Somebody saw an early screening of Resurrections and is doing an AMA about it. I read a few of the questions but none of the answers. So, presumably there are spoilers all over the place in those answers. Reader beware. I have no idea what was said tho.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AMA/comments/rla0xf/i_saw_the_matrix_ressurections_early_screening

The reviews comparing this to "The Last Jedi", as if that's honestly a good thing, is pretty amazing.

Quote from: The Joker on Tue, 21 Dec  2021, 20:32

The reviews comparing this to "The Last Jedi", as if that's honestly a good thing, is pretty amazing.

Ngl, that has me worried.

But then, like TDK pointed out, we'll all have to make up our own damn minds. Less than 24 hours now until I can watch the movie and see for myself.

I enjoyed the original trilogy. Love or hate the sequels, one thing you have to admit is they didn't take the easy way out on anything. The Wachowskis took risks and chances that virtually nobody thought they'd take.

There's no reason to think that spirit of adventure and creativity that has defined all their other work has suddenly dried up. I choose to believe that Resurrections will be worthwhile... until/unless I'm shown otherwise.

I believe TLJ reference is about how the film subverts expectations. Based on the leaks, the characters are respected in Resurrections. But even then, it seems like it's a movie people will either love or hate. It's funny how early on the film was taking heat for being a simple remake, but that isn't the straightforward case here.

Critics have walked in and have been rubbed the wrong way because of it. Way I see it, taking elements of the original and doing something different with them should be the whole point. If we want the exact same experience we always have the first movie. If any movie was to break the fourth wall in a sense, commenting on the franchise business, it's The Matrix. I like action as much as anyone, but in all honesty it's the story I'm most interested about. We have two seemingly deceased characters coming back and decades worth of world development. Any real Matrix fan wants to know what's going on with these things.

I'm exhausted. So, after work, I'm doing a mega nap and then some stuff around the house.

But after all that tonight, I'll give The Matrix Resurrections a day in court.

I saw about 17 minutes of it before work. The humor is new, but I've followed Lana through Sense8 so I'm red pill on this. Not sure if I'll wait until tomorrow (my last work day this week) or not. I like having a weekend for a new movie.

(https://img.ifunny.co/images/6805cab3be907d1738a141bb3a37f09f9fe4f38a2e327eb3f8b373a3e942a27c_1.jpg)

Literally sounds like a Victoria Alonso quote, but I appreciate the chuckle. I mean, wasn't it Total Recall that originated taking the red pill in the first place?  ::)

I'll probably read and watch some review videos on this before checking it out. At the very least, it would be pleasantly amusing to find out that all this talk of Matrix Resurrections being a big trans allegory, comparable to "The Last Jedi", and now this 'reclaiming of the red pill' nonsense, is just that, nonsense. Stirred up to get controversy for some unknown reason (cause this tactic works so well in the past, right?).

Twenty minutes in. No spoilers for now. Not from me anyway.

But the first scene with Thomas and the boss guy. It's not even a metaphor, yeesh.

There's a post-credit scene. It's not much. But it's something. More than nothing. And this is an ACTUAL post-credit scene. Not something randomly dropped into the middle of the credits. It's actually after the credits. Watch it. In its own way, it's actually a pretty good summary of what Resurrections is up to as a film.

spoilers

The movie itself. I enjoyed it. It's a lot more jokey than the original trilogy. Or at least more than the sequels. Reloaded and Revolutions were dealing with very high stakes subject matter. Link was the only attempt at comic relief in those films. How successful he was as a character is in the eye of the beholder.

In Resurrections, there's more of an overall lighter tone. I can't prove it but I think Wachowski was determined to create a sequel that more or less fulfilled audience expectations in an unexpected, out of left field kind of way. Whereas Neo in the original trilogy was a self-doubting reluctant hero, here (after a fashion) he's pretty freewheeling and lighthearted in the final scene with Trinity and The Analyst.

As is typical with The Matrix, there are layers of meaning and complication to all this. But as I said above, I don't see very much subtext in Neo's first meeting with Smith. Smith's dialogue related to Warner Bros. is pretty gd on the nose. The Wachowskis were told that a Matrix sequel was happening with or without them. But without them, they'd be done at WB. Which appears to be more or less what happened. The names aren't even changed to protect the guilty. I'm amazed that WB let this fly.

Finally, I wrote a wall text post a couple weeks ago that explained in almost excruciating detail why I thought certain things would happen in the movie. I deleted it because my wall text posts tend not to get many replies. But I think my deleted post was fairly close to the mark. Basically, Trinity now shares some of Neo's The One code due to a series of weird circumstances that the machines were unable to control because of the strange and off-script path that Neo took in the original trilogy.

/spoilers

All in all, I enjoyed the movie on the first viewing with some reluctances. I'll get more into that in the future tho. For now, bedtime.

If Wikipedia is to be believed (too lazy to check Box Office Mojo), Resurrections isn't faring too well at the box office. I'm guessing No Way Home is hogging all the attention at the moment.

At this point, I'm pretty much convinced that the Wachowskis never wanted a fourth movie and Resurrections only exists to pacify somebody from the studio. Assuming I'm right, Resurrections tanking at the box office might be for the best. The movie gives Neo and Trinity a happy ending but faring poorly at the box office might eliminate the possibility of further movies. So, this might be the best possible outcome, depending on how you look at it.

I guess we'll see.

What's interesting about the first act is that you're very likely getting something very close to the truth. I know for a fact that WB held up the Wachowskis and told them that either they would come in and do this or WB would proceed without them. I know because a while ago (not sure how long) an anonymous source came out on reddit and proved themselves to be the WB's 'plan b' if the answer was no. As it stands, MR seems to not give a darn if you like it or not. I expected nothing less. I loved it and I hope there is more, but I don't think there will be. Nobody outside of the die hards are into this film. Most reviews are angry because the movie feels more like the expectation subverting sequels that a pander fest. Way too many butt hurt fanboys in the 'I only ever liked the first one' crowd.

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Mon, 27 Dec  2021, 14:59
What's interesting about the first act is that you're very likely getting something very close to the truth. I know for a fact that WB held up the Wachowskis and told them that either they would come in and do this or WB would proceed without them. I know because a while ago (not sure how long) an anonymous source came out on reddit and proved themselves to be the WB's 'plan b' if the answer was no. As it stands, MR seems to not give a darn if you like it or not. I expected nothing less. I loved it and I hope there is more, but I don't think there will be. Nobody outside of the die hards are into this film. Most reviews are angry because the movie feels more like the expectation subverting sequels that a pander fest. Way too many butt hurt fanboys in the 'I only ever liked the first one' crowd.

This has all come as a bit of a surprise, at least to me. That first teaser won so much good will that I'm a little shocked that the movie is faring as poorly as it is. People were pumping their fists all over the place seeing Neo back in action in the teaser but that well of good will appears to have dried up.

It's still early days. But I think history will look back kindly on what Resurrections attempted to do considering the lines that Wachowski had to color inside of.

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Mon, 27 Dec  2021, 14:59
I loved it and I hope there is more, but I don't think there will be. Nobody outside of the die hards are into this film. Most reviews are angry because the movie feels more like the expectation subverting sequels that a pander fest. Way too many butt hurt fanboys in the 'I only ever liked the first one' crowd.

Exactly this.

Resurrections is an extended epilogue to Revolutions, which explains so much of the critical savaging. The film doesn't just mirror the original, but references the sequels quite liberally. Therefore lot of people literally don't know what is going on and don't care to find out. I can understand people not being bowled over by the action, but in terms of pure lore I can't see it being anything other than a gift to the fans. The Matrix is a big franchise but it's never been a mainstream accepted franchise like Star Wars.

I have to give my respect to the story team in fleshing out the world post Revolutions. To me it made all the sense in the world. There was a truce, but not all Machines were on board with that. Some helped out humanity, some didn't. Which reflects our own reality. It's never going to be perfect peace bathed in golden light. Which also allows tension and conflict to remain for the freed humans living on the scorched Earth.

Therefore it makes logical sense for humanity to flee Zion and seek somewhere more secure and secluded rather than risk another Doomsday scenario. That's what they do with IO. And the place looks fantastic. A huge upgrade over Zion, not just in terms of visuals but technology. Loved seeing the APU cameos in the distance too, bridging the gap between the two locations. The fate of the original Morpheus is totally in character. After Reloaded he had his faith shaken due to the prophecy lie. After Neo's sacrifice it's believable he'd fully embrace his faith and again have total conviction, believing the truce would be eternally upheld. A sad but fitting end. I also dig how Niobe became like Lock over time, and Bugs resembles Niobe's younger self.

I absolutely believe that people don't have the right perspective with the movie. The fact the Morpheus echo is played by another actor, and differently, is not a negative. In this context it's a benefit. It creates a distinction between the real deal, as played by Fishburne. The echo shows a lot of time has passed, things have changed and there have been consequences. Having Fishburne appear as the echo would've undermined that. And I stand by that comment.

Swarm mode felt like a natural extension of the Matrix being a system of control. Using and abusing those within to serve their agenda. If they can hijack people to become Agents, it makes sense they'd also create zombie hordes if the situation warranted it. The flashbacks weren't an issue for me, in the context of Neo questioning his own memories versus what he thinks could just be a game. That aspect I found to be clever, not insulting, regardless of any real life digs that may be made against the studio. The flashbacks also served to make Resurrections feel like a coda to the trilogy, reminding fans of what came before.

I also like how Neo and Trinity were given roles that should have been appealing to them, but deep down they weren't wholly satisfied. They knew something was missing. Neo started out in the original as a shadowy hacker. Here, he's a world famous game developer. Trinity has a husband and children, which should make her happy. But it seems more like an obligation and she hates the name she's given: Tiffany. Once she meets Neo, she can't stop thinking about him. Which confirms that life is about energy and trusting what you feel.

If this is the end of the line, I'm satisfied. It leaves Neo and Trinity in a good place. The world progressed in a logical manner. I'm hoping there's other franchise media like games, another Animatrix series or comics. Even if Lana had her arm twisted to make the movie, I still see it being made out of love. Love for the characters she helped create. The end credits even mention the importance of love with the end statement. That's what I have to say for now - I'm satisfied.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rOnTNik9eQ

I'm not gonna pretend I'm interested in The Matrix Resurrections, and for all I know, the footage of Wachowski could be edited out of context. But I enjoy the way this video is edited. ;D

I saw a scene where they took a jab at the studio and showed it to a friend who is a die-hard Matrix fan, he told me his enthusiasm for Resurrections took a nosedive. I guess this tongue-in-cheek meta comedy isn't appreciated among most fans of the franchise.

Honestly, I think a fourth Matrix movie should've come out a decade ago, at the very latest.

The uncut interview isn't a drastic improvement.

One way of looking at it is the Wachowskis are notoriously gunshy when it comes to doing press. Famously, they didn't do press themselves for the Matrix sequels. Producers and cast members did tons of press. But not the Wachowskis. This interview could be a good example of why. Social anxiety?

Of course, the other way of looking at it is that Lana Wachowski never believed in this movie but doesn't have the clout this time around to refuse press. Hence, the awkward interview. When you bumble a big softball interview like that, shyness can't be the only explanation. Wachowski just doesn't seem to accept the legitimacy of the movie's existence.

Watch any interview with Keanu Reeves where he promotes Resurrections and you'll see a night and day difference going on there. He controls the room and he makes a pretty solid case for the movie's merits. Clearly, he's had training on how to do interviews and handle the press.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 29 Dec  2021, 13:39
Of course, the other way of looking at it is that Lana Wachowski never believed in this movie but doesn't have the clout this time around to refuse press. Hence, the awkward interview. When you bumble a big softball interview like that, shyness can't be the only explanation. Wachowski just doesn't seem to accept the legitimacy of the movie's existence.

I can't stand Grace Randolph and I'm disappointed Snyder gave her a platform and a sense of legitimacy. All we are hearing about is if Lana really wanted to make the movie, and the meta commentary, while the real guts of the movie sit on the sidelines. I like the meta commentary but it really is a small component near the start, with the central plot being waking up Neo and rescuing Trinity. People need to look at the plot threads and with a straight face tell me this isn't a respectful continuation. Because it is.

The Machines started losing power with an increase in minds being freed, so a civil war started. The Merovingian really does look like he lives on the streets of San Fransisco because he's a true survivor as most other programs were deleted or reskinned. The social commentary that humans don't care about facts, only fiction and the world that exists in their mind. Desire and fear controls people. And so on.

It seems like a negative cloud was dumped over the brand ever since the sequels. Almost like some believe they have to react that way, because only the original could ever be deserving of praise. The reaction to Resurrections is hysterically absurd, as if it dances on the grave of franchise and abuses the fans. Like with Batman Returns or Dawn of Justice, people either get it or they don't. And a lot don't. As for myself, I see the franchise as a four part series with all segments being important to the whole. A much more enriching experience.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 29 Dec  2021, 14:18I can't stand Grace Randolph and I'm disappointed Snyder gave her a platform and a sense of legitimacy.

You shouldn't read so much into it. That was a marriage of convenience. Snyder needed a friendly outlet to reach the fans and Randolph needed something to attract a bigger audience. They both benefitted from the arrangement. Still, when access journalists forget their place, well, Grace Randolph is basically what you end up with.

In that industry, nobody minds a shill. But at the same time, nobody likes a shill who thinks they're more than a shill. And Randolph at some point started thinking she's more than a shill.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 29 Dec  2021, 14:18All we are hearing about is if Lana really wanted to make the movie, and the meta commentary, while the real guts of the movie sit on the sidelines. I like the meta commentary but it really is a small component near the start, with the central plot being waking up Neo and rescuing Trinity. People need to look at the plot threads and with a straight face tell me this isn't a respectful continuation. Because it is.

The meta commentary is the low hanging fruit. The other stuff you mention requires thought and reflection. As you know, I won't be remembered for my unbreakable faith in the intelligence of the common man. Therefore, I have no hesitation in saying that people overlooking the gems that Resurrections has to offer in favor of gossip comes as no surprise to me.

And yet...

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 29 Dec  2021, 14:18The Machines started losing power with an increase in minds being freed, so a civil war started.

This is one thing that I enjoyed about the movie. I suggested that hardliners would exist on both sides. And that was somewhat born out.

But the sequence in Io where the humans and the machines team up to reengineer life and ecology was a total reversal of The Second Renaissance. The fact that more people aren't commenting on that is a crying shame. It's one of the most powerful moments in the entire series, for my money.

Machines are now affecting humans. But humans are also affecting machines. When Neo gets unplugged again for the first time, a machine snuggles up to him like a dog. Then Neo pets him like a dog. Why and how did a machine ever acquire the instinct to do that? And yet, they did that. The two sides are no longer alienated from each other and they have affected one another. This is a sneak preview of the unified future that The Oracle dreamed about.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 29 Dec  2021, 14:18The social commentary that humans don't care about facts, only fiction and the world that exists in their mind. Desire and fear controls people. And so on.

One underappreciated element of the movie that works for me is how Neo and Trinity argue against that premise through their actions. Both of them had every conceivable reason to accept the lie. But they instinctively knew that there was a deeper truth being hidden from them and that made all the difference in the end.

Embracing the truth led to their freedom and empowerment. That suggests there is hope for the rest of mankind. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow. But eventually. And once the rest of humanity accepts the truth, there might be a beautiful real world waiting for them.

If we have to put this in irl terms, the ending of Resurrections is basically the first brick coming out of the Berlin Wall. We haven't seen (and may never see) whatever future the end of Resurrections leads to. But the first brick has been knocked out of the wall. And in general, we know what will come out of that.

Resurrections leaves Neo and Trinity in a much more dominant position. At the end of the original, Neo envisions a world without borders or boundaries, rules or controls. But he says "where we go from there is a choice I leave to you." Neo and Trinity aren't waiting around now. They're going to remake the world outright. In a hypothetical future I also envision Neo and Trinity becoming the leaders of IO after Niobe bites the dust. Compare that treatment to Jake Skywalker in Jed's Last Eye.

Checked this out last night at theater.

Hope to have a review posted by next week.

After letting the movie sit a while longer, I stand by what I've said, but the movie definitely came and went. The story side of things is fine, but there's no doubt the action is lacking, especially when you compare it to the other three films. The first half is solid but the IO content in the middle drags. If certain things were tidied up, Resurrections would've been a step above what it is. It's far from being a bad movie, but it feels flat. It's not something I'm rushing to see again. All things considered it was much better than it could've been. I don't see it burning the series to the ground even if no more films are ever made.

My late SPOILER Review:


Well, it's pretty clear watching the film that Lana initially thought making this film was a bad idea, beyond which any continuation would basically feel like an asspull, but it does also appear to be a film that at least attempts to comment on the movie industry as a whole, and reboots in general.

The trailers leading up to this was pretty well executed, but I could never fully shake the feeling of unease in anticipation for this. I wasn't exactly "All In" on the notion of a Matrix 4, but I wasn't entirely "against" the idea either. Upon finally seeing the film ... ehhh .... It wasn't bad, per se, just underwhelming. I don't think the film really deserves the outright trashing it's been getting from a lot of people online. Unfortunately, I think the film definitely missed the tight controlled narrative to set up the concept that the original Matrix had. Honestly, I thought Matrix Resurrections was going to expand MORE on the mythology or concepts than it ultimately did, but oh well.

For my money, it's the meta, and subliminal commentary inserted into the movie by Lana that make this film viable. I mean, other than Warners mandating a Matrix 4 with or without the Wachowski's, I understand that the germ for the idea of a Matrix 4 has always been described as a expensive therapy session project for Lana as a means of coping with deaths in her circle of friends and family. The parts of the film that talk about a "money grab" appear to be in there to poke fun at the studio and reboots, and sequel hungry fans.

Act 1 for instance, doesn't take place in the gritty setting of the previous Matrix, but rather in a (amusingly) sunny and pretty San Francisco minus drug addicts, hobos nodding out amidst poo and piles of discarded syringes while the rich latte ilk walk over them as if they don't exist. So yeah, you already KNOW something ain't right! Now we have Neo as a game designer and the trilogy was, in the machines' new reality, as we're being told, a series of games that he created.  On top of that, he's being pushed by the company brass to make a fourth one (even with Mr. Anderson cartoonishly gulping out loud when the idea of numerous Matrix sequels is brought up. Which just simply comes across as one of the many "commentaries" about Warners' ultimatum in either participating with a Matrix sequel or get out of the way), it's really just blatant meta-commentary on how lame it would be to make a fourth Matrix movie. Now this is entertaining to a degree, and I liked the slow burn of watching Neo struggling with a psychotic meltdown he had during the development of the previous games, which led him to perceive the real world as being part of the Matrix. All that's good. It's only when the film gets into the second act that I found myself losing interest.

One part of the social commentary that I found interesting was in the film, it's pretty much understood that now people want to "stay in their pods" (an actual phrase in the script) and enjoy what the Matrix pipes into their brains. I took that as something of a clear barb aimed at terminally online people (there are scenes of people together in physical spaces but staring at their phones) and those who would rather adhere to the system, cower in their houses, rather than rebel. Actually choosing to let the governments of the world run things rather than live their lives. Something of which I wasn't expecting from a Hollywood movie these days (along with the idea of overly emotional people being useful for the bad guys. That's rather, I would say, introspective of the times we currently live in).

So yeah, the meta stuff is very entertaining, and all, but it didn't really raise the bar either. Meta can only really get you so far, and unfortunately the fundamentals just isn't there. The movie is shot in a way that is jarring in comparison to the other three films. Where the others were shot deliberately and had key elements that brought them together, the "improv" and natural lighting of this new entry do not give off the impression of a "true" Matrix film. Unfortunately, there are no camera angles or competently-shot action sequences that makes it different from any other film these days. With the original Matrix, it's true that it's very much of it's time, however at that time it looked simply amazing. In addition, there was much hinting at deeper meanings that you could get out of it if you wanted to and/or were stoned (choice, destiny, and identity, among other things...). With Resurrections, anything like that appears to be rather largely absent. The only deeper meanings would come from the meta stuff, and that wouldn't be entirely clear unless you did your research on what was going on behind the scenes in the development of this movie.

With the fight scenes, I didn't particularly find them Matrix worthy. Pure and simple. Leaving me to wonder if this would have been better animated as a consequence? Judging from how this movie came off, as opposed to the Matrix Trilogy, perhaps it was Lana who was more interested in the philosophy that was presented of the Matrix Trilogy, and it was Lily who had more interest in the action scenes? Can't say for sure there, but the movie certainly feels that way. Sure, the lack of Yuen Woo-Ping is incredibly noticeable , but the chance for adding that extra layer was still there for the fight scenes, and it just doesn't seem like there was really any priority given to which they could take advantage of it. Under the circumstances, I just found the action scenes serviceable. Not epic or big like in the trilogy, or what would one would naturally expect from a Matrix film, but just merely serviceable. Which may be another attempt to 'subvert expectations', but I've grown incredibly bored with that (for F's sake the original Matrix used their action sequence plans to pitch the film to Will Smith). After all, the Matrix movies is a series that prides itself on having amazing action set pieces, with moments that go above and beyond, taking full advantage of things such as anime aesthetics, martial arts, bullet time, and gun-fu to elevate them into things you can hardly see anywhere else. The first film in particular pulled it off masterfully, giving you such amazing never before seen action set pieces that made it worth seeing multiple times. Even if the rest of the film wasn't efficiently written, it would still be all worth it to get to those scenes.

With Resurrections, this component is entirely missing. As what you see is what you get in terms of those moments. There's not anything extra added to give spice to them, which unfortunately, only makes the tamer choreography and shaky cam stand out even more. Which is another reason they don't hit as hard. Because the film is so slowly paced in many sections, you want to be rewarded for your patience with some kind of epic payoff. On that last point, the action involves more jump-cuts, less cinematic trickery and ultimately feels slower and more bogged-down - all bad things. You don't get a sense of damage as the worst that any protagonist gets is a bleeding nose/mouth, and showers of bullets magically never hurt even the most basic of protagonists. The sheer amount of gunfire means that some, at the very least, of these characters should *definitely* be getting killed, yet it never happens. You don't get a sense that they're faster or that it was blind luck or quick thinking that saved them; they all just bizarrely survive because, well, the plot wants them to survive.

None of the main cast die; not even the main villain. A number of the protagonists should have died when the Merovingian's goons attack. After all, they're meant to be ancient and stronger, yet they kill no-one. The *new* concept of Matrix swarms and dive bombers kill no-one. Niobe didn't even die of an old-person heart attack. As a consequence, there's really no real sense of urgency in Resurrections. If everybody lives, why should I be worried? What exactly are the stakes here? It means action scenes come and go without tension or desperation, and you don't really feel like they are running out of time, or really anything compels them toward its conclusion. By comparison, it's the complete opposite of the first Matrix where damn near the entire group is killed off.

Now with the notion that the human/machine truce didn't hold, that's fine. It's not exactly new either. As that idea had already been introduced in the Matrix Online game some years back. So yeah, it just comes across as Lana giving us a variation of an old Matrix Online idea, which is fitting since I believe both Wachowski's wrote notes for the game well after Matrix Revolutions had came and went. Also, the idea of machines collaborating with humans already had precedent with the Animatrix. If I am not mistaken.

Now where I think this film excelled in, was the love story between Neo and Trinity. Outside of the meta stuff, this was the crux that, fortunately, kept me interested. Reeves picks up the role of Neo again like he never left, and Carrie-Ann Moss never gave me the impression of an actress out-of-touch with the original conception. The entire Neo/Trinity development and yearning for one another dynamic was done very well and was actually gratifying. But that's it. That component was so strong that it carried the weight of the narrative.

What I could have ideally done without, was Trinity getting powers and being the ying/yang equivalent to Neo. With Neo, he was meant to be "The One". Not one whole unit, or the Ying & Yang bs. He was The One. In the original film, the entire point was that Neo is an unintentional messiah with powers he didn't know he had or why he had them. That and, you know, him being THE ONE. Now Trinity was a badass, with a nice as$, who Neo fell for, and her with him, but it ultimately was originally portrayed as a tragic romance. To me, Trinity was interesting as a character because she had more personal strength than Neo. He was 'physically' stronger than her, but ultimately she was the catalyst that ultimately led Neo to deviate from the normal path that previous Ones took to reform the matrix. She wasn't a weak damsel in distress, but she wasn't a God either. She was a well-rounded character with a pivotal role in the story. With Resurrections, Trinity is no longer a very capable "Lois Lane", but "Wonder Woman". Now flying around with Neo as the new rulers of the Matrix, and painting the sky with rainbows. Because that's what a free mind does (subliminal pun very much intended I'm sure).

So ... yeah. Personally, I was more than ok with Trinity in how she was originally portrayed in the Matrix Trilogy than here. It's different, but that doesn't it's better.

Going back to the notion of tension of separation between Neo and Trinity that was a focal point, and to which was that the Analyst was striving for, I have to assume that this was Lana Wachowski's metaphor for the tension of being trapped on the binary spectrum, and the power stemming from the the union of Neo and Trinity was the power of unification of identity. The binary scale gets blown apart into a three-dimensional band that allows for a broad spectrum of non-binary identifications. Anything becomes possible. Reality can be re-written. When Neo and Trinity unite, they are symbolically two faces of one expression of self. As Queer identities, such as Lana Wachowski, I would theorize might internalize that as much as they externalize it, as a truer expression of self. Where a heterosexual point of view, might romanticized this as 'true love', halves of a whole.  Just a thought.

As for the other characters:

Bugs: She was alright. Kinda ambivalent one way or the other, but alright I guess. I could say the same thing about Niobe too in a way. Good to see her, even as a much older woman, but that's about it.

New52 Morpheus: Yeah New52Morpheus is explicitly a different character and while thin on development, I guess he was alright too. Didn't dislike him. He's a lot snarkier towards Neo than the original ever would have been, for starters. A different spin for sure, especially in contrast to that of Fishburne's more serious, no-nonsense Morpheus. Didn't think he had the screen presence or charisma of Fishburne (to say the least), but thankfully not a complete train wreck either. Just very different.

Bootleg Agent Smith: Smith is a very odd inclusion here all around. On a very surface level enjoyment of the film, he's just merely serviceable. Unfortunately, the new actor just doesn't have the gravitas of Hugo Weaving, and Weaving's portrayal is SORELY missed. Bootleg Smith is a pale shadow of himself both in character and function. Agent Smith in the originals was played by Hugo Weaving and his stellar acting made him feel uncanny and robotic. He really had the perfect face, since within the logic of the fake world in the Matrix, he looked like some CIA Man-in-Black type, but Weaving managed to play the role in a way to really come across like the AI-Agent that he was supposed to be. I am not entirely sure if the case of Hugo not being in this was "scheduling" or that was his way of politely turning down the part, but it's just a shame he couldn't have reprised HIS role again. In addition, the idea of Smith temporarily siding with Neo was a curiosity that only Weaving could have sold. With Bootleg Smith, especially being so uncharismatic, I was just not convinced.

Speaking of Agents ....

There are multiple little details that make no sense like one of the reasons the bots are allegedly "superior" to Agents because their appearance doesn't change when they take over people's avatars in the Matrix... Big deal. Agents take over an avatar and minmax all stats in like one second. In the context of the Matrix Trilogy, sure, you might get lucky and kill one of them but, unless you're Neo, it would be SUPER-difficult, and an Agent would simply take over another avatar close by and be on your a$s again in like 10 seconds. In Resurrections the 'swarm bots' or whatever they are called, just come across as MCU-lite cannon fodder for the heroes to kick around. The whole chase scene that is the climax of the Resurrections is just flat out inferior to the freeway chase in Reloaded. So yeah, not impressed with this change whatsoever.

The reappearance of The Merovingian: Can't honestly say I liked seeing him back at all, and I can't believe I'm saying that. In this film, he was just simply bastardised. Sure, his being around isn't super surprising considering his past, and him having survivors of the old version doesn't surprise me either because it had sh*tload of old programs in the first 3 movies like the twins, and the fine as F Monica Bellucci. Unfortunately, his speech was so ham fisted that I felt an actual pain from cringing, and his goons didn't even do anything. I'm not even sure why they bothered including the Merovingian when his reappearance resulted in absolutely nothing of consequence. Another MCU comedic like moment.

The Analyst: Doogie was alright in the part, but I just found him a lot less interesting than how Reloaded presented The Architect in Matrix Reloaded. I couldn't help but think that having the villain performing misogynist microaggressions against Trinity was, shall we say, a bit too indicative of modern Hollywood writing, but it is what it is.

The often parroted line about Matrix Resurrections being comparable to something like "The Last Jedi" is something I am very perplexed about after watching the film. I remember writing a pretty scathing review of TLJ on the forum here, and I'll say it again, TLJ actively went out of its way to completely subvert and trash everything people loved about the originals and the main character purely for the sake of conveying the whole theme of "moving on from failure" and "Let the past die. Kill it if you have to". It completely tarnished the previous hero, Luke, by revealing him giving up and having all his efforts amount to essentially nothing, letting new characters steal his spotlight, and in general, seemed to actively try to force the new generation on to the viewer.

By contrast, in Matrix Resurrections, the film makes it clear that Neo's sacrifice and his actions in the original films was not all for nothing. The relationship between humanity and the machines is improving, and the idea of healing was very much there. The scene revealing that now there is a new way to genetically grow fruits was evidence of that. And it could've only happened with the unity of humans/machines working together that stemmed from the true Neo made in Revolutions. Neo himself was also treated with much more respect than Luke, as he was very much still the focus of the whole movie, and it was his actions in it that led to the victory at the end. Rather than completely trash the past films in an attempt to move on like TLJ, at least this film treated the past as something worth remembering and gaining inspiration from. Some might say that all the quick cuts to previous scenes within the Matrix Trilogy was obnoxious, but I wasn't bothered by them at all. I thought they actually helped, more than anything.

As far as what the future holds? Apparently, not much. Considering that M4 is failing harder than an Alec Baldwin interview on ABC, I would be surprised if we hear anything for a number of years (we all knew releasing this so close to Spider-Man was going to result in M4 getting trounced, but getting bested by Sing 2 as well is just .... demoralizing quite frankly). Best bet *might* be a television show (live action or animated) on HBO Max, especially since the ending left open many and unresolved issues, from "the suits" still being in charge, Bootleg Smith being loose, etc., but with the reception being incredibly mixed and box office tanking, Warners may very well take this as the public not having an appetite for the Matrix any longer. We'll see. This film was always going to have a uphill climb, considering that there has literally been next to no merchandising or licensed material since Revolutions came out. Avatar is pretty much in the same boat, but never bet against Cameron.

To finally wrap this up, the Matrix films are kinda like the Terminator films for me. In which, I tend to like/rank them exactly in order. So yeah, both franchises ultimately suffer from dimenishing returns, and I would definitely rank the presentation of the original Matrix Trilogy, over what we're offered with Resurrections. As far as it's placement in the lore goes, I'll probably end up considering this film as more of a "accessory" than anything else. To bring in another comparison, if I want to read some Frank Miller Batman, I'm going with Batman Year One, and Dark Knight Returns. Both are apex quintessential Frank Miller Batman. The rest, like the Batman/Spawn crossover, DKSA, All Star, Master Race, Last Crusade, and whatever the hell The Golden Child was, are all just mere accessories. With the Matrix, I'll stick with the classic Matrix Trilogy. Resurrections is more interesting to me as not a 'finale' to the Matrix world, but for all the meta stuff, and subliminal metaphors/symbolism Lana personally worked into the movie to reflect the personal trials and tribulations Lana had recently experienced. It's kinda like how I tend to have more interest in re-reading Frank Miller's "Holy Terror" as a piece of work reflecting Frank's own personal intense emotions about the tragedy that was 9/11 than as a truly advantageous (originally Batman) story.

6 and half out of 10.

If you ask me, all Resurrections needed to do is be good enough.

Now, I can "criticize" some aspects of it. The original trilogy floated a variety of different theological and philosophical viewpoints (causality, determinism, humanism, etc.) as well as allusions to Plato, Descartes, Socrates and others along with influences from various religious texts. Honestly, it's a pretty heavy intellectual smorgasbord. The end result is very rich cinematic literature that rewards analysis and consideration.

Resurrections has pretty much none of that. Because those points, arguments and questions were already raised by the trilogy. It wouldn't make sense to retread that stuff in a fourth movie.

I too can conjecture that the fight sequences simply aren't as engaging as the sequences in the trilogy. And this, I think, is more fertile ground for criticism, frankly. It's a bit much to expect another intellectual banquet. But asking for some decent fight scenes isn't going too far.

Still, I enjoyed myself while watching the movie, it was a fun ride, Resurrections first did no harm to the original trilogy and now Resurrections fits into the saga, not as a fourth movie. But more of a coda to Revolutions. Sort of a bow around the entire trilogy. A completely optional farewell to fan favorite characters. It's there if you want it. But it isn't mandatory viewing.

I'm also not in a rush to rewatch the movie. But I do think I'll rewatch it at some point.

At this point, it looks like The Matrix series is truly finished. If another movie gets made, my guess is both Wachowskis will be excluded from it. I'm guessing it'll be a reboot or something.

But even that seems unlikely right now. So, as things stand, there is a core trilogy followed by a fun little coda. I don't think that's a bad position to be in at all.

I stand by my earlier claim that The Matrix series never got the expanded universe it deserved. Tie-in novels and comics to flesh out the world would've been welcome. But you can't have everything. And I'm quite content with what we do have.

The Matrix and the first two sequels were projects of passion on behalf of the Wachowskis. They storyboarded everything to the last detail and had a very specific story to tell. For Resurrections, Lana effectively turned up on set and just started filming with next to no rehearsals. I do think Lana didn't originally want to make the movie, but embraced the idea and made the most of it. I'm up for expanded content like another Animatrix, or games. The movie just didn't make enough money to get a fifth off the ground, at least in the short term. As a big blockbuster I think the glory days are over. They peaked with Reloaded. I'm still a fan and I accept that nothing last forever. I'd rather something like this rather than other franchises like Die Hard or Terminator that really flamed out creatively.

So, Resurrections is available now for purchase on iTunes. Apparently, physical media will be released in March.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 26 Jan  2022, 04:58
So, Resurrections is available now for purchase on iTunes. Apparently, physical media will be released in March.

John Wick has the energy of the original Matrix trilogy and is the natural evolution/continuation of that model. The action in Wick is some of the best you'll see anywhere, so the action being a disappointment in Resurrections can't be down to Keanu's age. I'm at peace with the fact the Matrix is likely done. The story came to a neat coda, and Wick lives on at least for another two films.

Village Roadshow are suing WB over The Matrix Resurrections getting impacted by HBO Max. The lawsuit accuses the studio of "deliberately harming the film's box office to prop up HBO Max, at the expense of the future viability of the franchise".

Damning words. A copy of the full 50-page legal document is available to read, right at the end of this article.

https://variety.com/2022/film/news/matrix-resurrections-village-roadshow-sues-warner-bros-1235173757/

I've been waiting for something like this. And when you think about it, The Matrix Resurrections is just about the perfect vehicle for some type of lawsuit. In Hollywood, my hunch is that most people don't want to bite the hand that feeds them. There's no guarantee it'll go as smoothly for you as it did for Scarlett Johansson.

But Village Roadshow has skin in the game, seemingly not much to lose and, most of all, I think they have a real case on this. Assuming that WB didn't make some sort of arrangement with VR... well, I'm no attorney. But I'm thinking this will get very interesting.

As I recently stated:

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed,  2 Feb  2022, 04:22
I hate the critics as much as anybody, but we're lying to ourselves if we pretend poor reviews don't hurt a film. They certainly smashed The Matrix Resurrections, which had the double hit of the streaming option which just about everyone who saw the film took.

People can point and laugh at the pitiful box office total for Resurrections and say it was simply a bad movie and deserved what it got. But HBO Max did inflict huge damage. I'm sure Lana and even Keanu expressed apprehension about the streaming option for Resurrections, but I can't find the articles in question at the moment. The question that needs to be asked is what level of importance do we place on brick and mortar cinemas? If we want them to remain strong, encumbrances need to be cut away.

As The National Association of Theatre Owners said, "simultaneous release is a pandemic-era artefact that should be left to history with the pandemic itself. The only real threat to the future of cinema is from bad business decisions driven by the heedless rush to streaming."

It's also a free hit for piracy with pristine digital versions floating around the web. I'm not going to elaborate on other issues, but bottom line, all Convid-1984 measures, which are built on lies, propaganda, ignorance and laziness, need to go. Village Roadshow are absolutely right in the way they outline their lawsuit, and in an ideal world they would win the case. But the courtroom is another construct that has largely been compromised to ensure the continuation of the overall agenda.

Of course a dual release was going to have an impact, but how much of any impact has been varied. Village Roadshow really should have gotten ahead of this like Legendary did with "Godzilla vs Kong", cause waiting around and going along with the program until this movie fell off a cliff, choosing to sue only after the fact, is going to be more of a uphill climb.

Other simultaneous releases didn't crash and burn like "Matrix Resurrections" did (GvK, Dune, even Disney's Black Widow), and no doubt about it, those films are going to be examples WB will be citing as an out.

Personally, I'm still amazed this movie's budget was around $190 million. Jesus Marimba!

Quote from: The Joker on Thu, 10 Feb  2022, 03:38Of course a dual release was going to have an impact, but how much of any impact has been varied. Village Roadshow really should have gotten ahead of this like Legendary did with "Godzilla vs Kong", cause waiting around and going along with the program until this movie fell off a cliff, choosing to sue only after the fact, is going to be more of a uphill climb.

I'm no attorney. But you can't sue for damages until damages have been incurred. Village Roadshow would've needed to wait until after the movie came out to take legal action like this.

According to the allegations made by Village Roadshow, WB have been manipulative and trying to force them out of the rights of not only The Matrix, but spin-off projects involving Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and Edge of Tomorrow.

Quote
WB Has Acted In Bad Faith to Deprive Village Roadshow of Its Legal and Contractual Rights To Invest in and Co- Own Valuable Derivative Works

19. WB's efforts to promote its own interests at the expense of Village Roadshow are not limited to its attempts to prop up HBO Max. WB has also been devising various schemes to deprive Village Roadshow of its continuing rights to co-own and co-invest in the Derivative Works from the films it co-owns. Recently, after acknowledging—in writing—that its tellingly named upcoming film, Wonka, was a prequel to Village Roadshow's Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, WB did an about-face, claiming the prequel was not a prequel and the original picture, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, was not one in which Village Roadshow had unqualified Derivative Rights. WB's tortured excuses do not hold up to even the lightest scrutiny.

20. More recently, WB made the decision to go forward with a television series based on Edge of Tomorrow, another Village Roadshow film. But it insisted that Village Roadshow relinquish its co-finance and co-ownership rights voluntarily. When Village Roadshow refused, WB said the quiet part out loud: it will not allow Village Roadshow to benefit from any of its Derivative Rights going forward, despite the over $4.5 billion it has paid WB to make and distribute 91 films. In other words, if Village Roadshow won't give up its rights, WB will make sure they are worth nothing.

21. WB's admission leaves no doubt that its conduct is simply a thinly-veiled effort to eliminate Village Roadshow's rights going forward so that it can keep for itself valuable Derivative Rights to tent pole films and use those films (and future creative derivative products arising from those films) to steer would-be theatergoers to HBO Max, thereby gaining billions in enterprise value.

The Matrix Resurrections was supposed to come out this year, but it was moved to the end of 2021 instead, making it the last same day release on HBO Max. Poor performance of the film at the box office makes it difficult for VR to continue their contractual payment, so they are at risk of losing all control of the IP. Pretty dirty, but not very surprising after what WB did to Justice League. Sabotaging productions to gain full commercial and artistic control is their MO. The only difference is JL was a case of a director's vision torn apart, with VR they appear to be screwing over another company.

If Discovery is serious about rebuilding the studio, they have to be livid about this bad PR.

More than once, I've wondered what legal options Discovery might have. For example, might they have the power to tell WB to stand down on making any further big decisions until after the merger has been completed?

I honestly don't know. Any corporate merger will make for a legal nightmare, logistical nightmare, etc. Since the process is already complicated enough, you'd think both parties would have some sort of clause about not creating additional chaos or making decisions that will result in bad press.

The fact that MR's release date got moved forward on the schedule to allow for a dual release may yet benefit VR tho. They're alleging bad faith and the changed release date seems like good evidence of that to me.

This process might drag on for a year or more. But I wouldn't be terribly surprised if someone from Discovery doesn't ultimately pull rank and force a settlement just to get this off everyone's collective plate.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 10 Feb  2022, 12:44
I'm no attorney. But you can't sue for damages until damages have been incurred. Village Roadshow would've needed to wait until after the movie came out to take legal action like this.

The precedent was already there for VR to take legal action once WB decided to publicly announce MR was going to be apart of their attention seeking HBO Max 2021 dual release strategy. Nearly a year prior to MR's scheduled release date.

Legendary not only got their money for GvK, but also apparently negotiated compensation for potential loss of profit participation with Dune and that franchise. Well before Dune's release date.

With this lawsuit, as is, about the best VR can hope for is to acquiesce for some sort of settlement. As once the merger with Discovery is finalized, they may very well just want to wash their hands of the matter and move on.

I did not see this coming. I thought after Resurrections the entire franchise was done and never to be seen again. But no. We are getting a fifth movie.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/the-matrix-new-movie-drew-goddard-1235865603/

Resurrections was fine story wise. It was lacking in the action department. I'm here for this, even though I'm certain many will be saying how unnecessary it is and the like. I love the mythology of the franchise and if it means Keanu and Carrie-Anne coming back, then hell yes. I'm also still waiting for the day we get another videogame, which this announcement can only help.

LOL

"The Matrix Resurrections grossed $40.5 million in the United States and Canada, and $118.7 million in other territories for a worldwide total of $159.2 million against a budget of $190 million."

So the last Matrix movie grossed just $40.5 million in the U.S.? I didn't realize (or simply forgot) it did that bad, but alright. Did "Resurrections" do very well on home media/HBO Max or something? If Matrix had a pretty decent merchandising machine behind it with toys, and shirts (ect) I guess I could somewhat understand the thinking here, but there's really nothing to speak of on that front either. That machine came and went back in 2003.

As for another Matrix? Ehhh ... F it. Why not? lol Despite this being a 'curious' project Warners wants to financially explore, and MR being incredibly dull, it's not something I would be completely uninterested in (damn my nostalgia). The budget sincerely needs to be adjusted though. Severely.

I guess not all hope is lost with Keaton and "Batman Beyond" with Warners after all if something like this is being advanced.  :D

I'm also at the point of being okay if the franchise continues without Keanu and Carrie-Anne, if that's what happens. There are many great stories that have been told, and can be told, without them. The Animatrix and comics are proof of that. But at the same time I'm not saying no if they're in the script.

Would've popped in sooner but I've been out of town on a work trip for the last week.

Anyway, there's a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth (https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/matrix-fans-roast-sequel-learning-201941528.html) over the lack of Wachowski involvement in this. And, um, am I the only one who remembers people griping for the last twenty years about every single Matrix sequel that's ever been made?

But since we're on the subject anyway, I also seem to recall Star Wars fans getting called "toxic" for objecting to new Star Wars movies being made without George Lucas's involvement.

So, which is it? Do fans have the right to bemoan the original creator(s) choosing not to be involved? Or is it okay for fans to voice concerns and criticisms?

All I'm asking is that whatever standard we choose for this, let's at least make sure it gets applied evenly to everybody, mmkay? If Star Wars fans are evil for reacting like they did, then surely Matrix fans are as well, right? But if those Matrix fans are legit, then I have to wonder what anybody ever had against Star Wars fans.

Will Reeves and Moss return? I have no idea. But it seems to me like both of them need SOMEthing in their careers. I'm not prepared to discount their involvement. But if they refuse to participate, then I would attribute that to loyalty to the Wachowskis.

A film set some time after Revolutions with Laurence Fishburne in the lead role would bring down the house, especially after his absence in film four. Depicting what they tell us about in Ressurections - Morpheus believing the truce will hold but the Oracle saying trouble is brewing. Show his death and the final destruction of Zion, with the establishment of IO. Plus expand upon the Machines that rebelled and joined the humans. They could reference Neo, saying people believe he will return one day. But none of them ever live to see it.

There's potential for a good good movie with that content, and with room to expand from there with new characters while respecting where the canon eventually leads. 60 years is a lot of time to play with. They could keep Resurrections as The End, with Neo and Trinity alive and basically gods who can control the fabric of the Matrix as they see fit. But I'm also open minded about a pure continuation from Resurrections.