Star Wars Episode 8: The Last Jedi

[The Dark Knight]

Attention catwoman and other users, I'm talking spoilers down below, so only read this until AFTER you've seen the film.

Again, here's the spoiler warning:



Okay....

I absolutely love what they did with an icon like Luke Skywalker. It was brave and bold. They had real guts. I'm sure other fans aren't going to like it, but I really appreciate it. It's not something happy. But it's deep, thoughtful and affects my soul. Which is so much better. Let me break it down.

Luke Skywalker became a myth. In his younger days he blew up the Death Star and redeemed Darth Vader. He was a galactic hero. But like most icons, they do most of their work as young people. That's their creative peak. Rey encountered Luke full of expectation. Instead of finding a legend she found a man. A flawed man. Rey found a man at the end of his rope because he had been burned too many times. The Resistance saw Luke as their great hope - someone who would end the war by himself. Luke didn't see himself that way. Big difference. I liked how he mocked their expectations. The idea one person could take down the First Order all on their own is silly. It's folklore.

Finding Luke wasn't going to solve all of their problems even if he co-operated.

People are freaking out about the flashback of Luke attempting to kill Ben Solo. But his mindset made complete and utter sense to me. In the film he spoke about how the Jedi were failures for allowing Sidious and Vader to rise under their noses and take over the galaxy. He witnessed firsthand what happened because of their inaction. He wasn't going to let that happen again without at least trying something. He had second thoughts after he ignited his blade, but by the time Ben woke up, it was too late. It's meant to be a product of shame for Luke as well. It's the reason why he detached himself from the galaxy and brooded alone. As Yoda said, failure is the biggest teacher.

The ending of the film is what really works for me. He literally projected himself as a God-like figure at the end (projecting his image via the Force), even though the reality is Luke is a flawed and broken man. People all saw Luke Skywalker withstand a barrage of AT-AT blaster fire. That was an impossible feat and would've only grown his legend. We know how he did it, but they don't. It's really poignant when you think about it.

I prefer that Luke projected his image and didn't actually fight Ben in person. Luke made a vow not to leave Ahch-To and he kept that vow. Luke was adamant he would die on the island and he did. But he still managed to help the Resistance by stalling Kylo Ren. He was okay with dying, but more so after knowing Rey would take his title as the last Jedi. Therefore his death is something of a release. He's moving on, but more just reaching his final form.

Deep down the character is a simple person. He grew up on Tattooine. Back then he had the spirit of adventure.....a sense of longing. But 30 years after Return of the Jedi, he lost that spirit of adventure. He no longer wanted to run off like he did in A New Hope or The Empire Strikes Back. He had done it all before and was content to stay where he was.

Again, I think they were really brave for going down this path and I'm proud of them for doing so.

I hope we see Luke again as a Force ghost in IX. There's no reason why we shouldn't.

[Catwoman]

You might wanna do our tried and true white font lol. Don't think your button is going to do much good unless you add a ton of space above and below the spoiler.

With that being the topic that was spoiled for me I went ahead and read that. PMing for clarification.

[The Dark Knight]

You might wanna do our tried and true white font lol. Don't think your button is going to do much good unless you add a ton of space above and below the spoiler.

With that being the topic that was spoiled for me I went ahead and read that. PMing for clarification.

PM sent, and I made the text white just in case. 

[Silver Nemesis]

Ok, so I got back from seeing this a few hours ago, having spent the past week avoiding any reviews or online reactions. I'm planning to see it again with my brother over Christmas, so my opinion might change on my second viewing. But based on my initial viewing, I think this is the weakest Star Wars movie since Attack of the Clones. It's not a bad film. It shares most of the same technical merits as The Force Awakens. But it also exacerbates the same problems that movie had and fails to course correct the disappointing trajectory of the trilogy as a whole. Advanced warning – this is more of a very long rant than a proper review. Highlight to read SPOILERS.

Firstly, the things I liked. I mostly liked the depiction of Luke, at least up until the ending, and I though Hamill gave a good performance. I liked that Yoda was a puppet again and not CG. I liked that they showed Leia using Force powers, even though the space vacuum scene was rather absurd and cheesily executed. I like that Rey turned out not to be a Skywalker. I like that they cut back on the fan service references. I admired the aforementioned technical strengths (35mm photography, practical effects, strong cinematography) and generally decent performances. That's about it.

What didn't I like? Practically everything else. Snoke, who was one of the worst aspects of The Force Awakens, is not redeemed in the sequel. He has the silliest and most abrupt death scene since Boba Fett, and we still don't have a satisfying payoff to explain who he was or what his long-term objectives were. He's just a hollow red herring used to reintroduce the threat of the Dark Side without any care or foresight, and he's a poor substitute for a great character like Palpatine. J J Abrams admitted they didn't plan out this trilogy when they wrote Episode VII, and that lack of forethought is painfully apparent in Episode VIII. I didn't find Poe or the Laura Dern character even vaguely compelling, and I resented the amount of screen time they were given as it distracted from the more interesting storyline with Luke. You can tell that whole subplot about the mutiny was added during the six month rewrite period that followed the release of The Force Awakens. Again, the lack of forward planning is obvious.

On the subject of Dern's character, there were too many scenes of heroes sacrificing themselves for their allies. Finn tries to do it, Rose tries to, Luke does it. But why did Dern's character do it? Couldn't they have left a droid to operate the ship? Maybe this was explained and I missed it. But her sacrifice felt like a cheap way of attaching emotional weight to her character and getting her out of the picture. Again, this seems to suggest her inclusion was a product of the post-TFA rewrites. She didn't fit in with the rest of the story, so they had to kill her off.

There were far too many cutesy scenes for my taste. And I say that as someone who liked the Ewoks! The BB-8 comedy was overplayed, and his invincibility level surpassed even that of R2 in the prequel trilogy. Every time the Porgs were on screen I felt as though I was watching a toy commercial. A lot of people say that about the Ewoks in the OT, but at least the Ewoks served an important function in the plot of Return of the Jedi. The Porgs don't. Why were they even there during the finale? The commercially-motivated reasoning behind their inclusion is far too blatant. And as if the Porgs weren't enough, we also get those doe eyed equine creatures on the casino planet (which was probably the most unimaginative alien world in the history of the franchise) and the crystal wolf beasts at the end of the movie.  We get it, Disney – you want the audience to go 'Awwwwww' and rush out to buy the toys. At least be subtle about it.

As a general point, I don't find any of the new characters in this trilogy compelling. I know a lot of people love Daisy Ridley. I don't. I think she's bland and I don't find Rey to be an interesting character. She's not as much of a Mary Sue this time around, but they didn't explain her apparent mastery of certain Jedi skills in the previous movie. Not innate Jedi traits (fast reflexes, intuition, prescience), but learnable Jedi skills (lightsaber swordsmanship, Force persuasion, telekinesis). Episode VIII needed to account for how she learned to do those things in Episode VII, but the movie completely fails to address this issue. Ultimately Rey strikes me as a forgettable gender-swapped Luke/Anakin clone rather than a worthwhile original creation that can stand on her own strengths. George Lucas patterned Luke and Anakin's stories after the classical hero's journey outlined by Joseph Campbell. There is an analogous female hero's journey too. If the writers of the new trilogy had studied that and used it as the structural basis for Rey's character arc they might have delivered something fresh and interesting. Instead they took the lazy approach and gave us a rehash of what we've seen before, only with less personality this time around.

I'm also disappointed with the way Finn has developed. Or rather the way he hasn't developed. His character arc in Episode VII was essentially the same as Han Solo's character arc in Episode IV: the Imperial defector motivated by self-interest (see Han's back story in the EU) who gets embroiled in a mission to smuggle a droid containing secret plans to the good guys, cuts loose the first chance he gets, then returns to help rescue his friend after heeding a higher calling. Han moved on from that characterisation in Episode V, and I was hoping Finn would progress in an equally interesting direction. But instead The Last Jedi largely recycles his arc from the previous film: he tries to run off again, gets embroiled with a female character, learns the value of loyalty and friendship (again), and ends up right back where he started. Admittedly it's not exactly the same as his character arc in Episode VII, but it's sufficiently similar for me to derive frustration. And that final scene between him and Rose, where she reveals her love and kisses him, came out of nowhere. Still, it's better than the Anakin/Padme romance from the Prequel Trilogy.

I need to re-watch it to make sure, but I don't remember there being a single duel between two lightsaber users in The Last Jedi. We see characters using lightsabers to fight mooks armed with other weapons, but no proper sabre vs. sabre combat. The closest we get is the flashback of Luke and Ben locking sabres, but that's hardly a duel. That makes this the first Star Wars movie ever not to contain a single proper lightsaber duel (not counting Rogue One)! We're teased with one right at the end, and the epic build-up makes us think we're about to get the long-awaited Jedi Master Luke sequence we've all been craving. Aaaaand... it doesn't happen. But I was ok with that because I figured they were saving the awesome Luke sequence for Episode IX. But then, in the very next scene, he drops dead; a development which adds a note of sentimentality to an otherwise emotionally thin climax. "It worked when Han died, right? So let's kill off another beloved character and that'll get the fans' juices flowing." If they were determined to kill him, they should have saved his death for Episode IX. This felt way too soon to me. Especially after the build-up in Episode VII.

One of the biggest problems with Episode VII was its structural dependency on Episode IV. Of all the criticisms that film received, I felt sure this was one Episode VIII would avoid repeating. But I was wrong. Structurally, The Last Jedi is every bit as much a rehash of the Original Trilogy as its predecessor. The film begins with the villains launching a retaliatory strike on the good guys' base as the heroes evacuate. The bad guy fleet then pursues the heroes through space for most of the movie, while a small band of characters split off from the good guy fleet to pursue their own adventure. Eventually they are betrayed to the bad guys by a scoundrel they'd earlier made the mistake of trusting. Elsewhere, a wannabe Jedi petitions a reluctant hermit to train them on a remote watery planet. At one point the aspiring Jedi climbs down into a mysterious cave and experiences a vision in which their own likeness is reflected back at them. They then ignore their master's advice and race off to confront the main villain. But after learning the truth of their parentage, the apprentice Jedi is overwhelmed by the villains' superior power. Sound familiar?

And it's not just Episode V this rips off. What about the sequence where the hero surrenders themself to the villain in an attempt to bring them back to the Light Side of the Force, only to be taken to the throne room of the head honcho, who is then betrayed and killed by his servant in order to protect the hero?  Or the scene where the old Jedi master confronts his former apprentice, delivers his "If you strike me down" line and relinquishes his life so that his allies can make good their escape? Or what about the climactic threat being a slowly-charging super weapon that is about to fire on the rebel base and annihilate them all? It may not be a space station, but it's still basically a terrestrial Death Star cannon. Will we ever get another Star Wars film where the final threat isn't a slowly-charging Death Star cannon? And I loved that line at the beginning of the final battle, where the Resistance soldier explains the ground is covered in salt. It was as if the director was saying, "See? It's salt, not snow. We're not ripping off the Battle of Hoth." Sure.

Another problem I have with the storytelling mechanics in this trilogy is the reliance on nonlinear disclosure of key events. Far too many important things happened off-screen between Episodes VI and VII. The Empire collapsed, the New Republic was formed, a new Jedi order was formed, Leia and Han had a son, Luke tried training him, the First Order rose, Snoke appeared and corrupted Ben, the Knights of Ren emerged (we still don't know who they are or what happened to the other Knights we glimpsed during Rey's vision in Episode VII), Ben turned to the Dark Side, the New Republic splintered and gave rise to the Resistance, the new Jedi order was wiped out, Luke went into hiding, etc.

There's more plot there than in Episodes VII and VIII combined. These events should have been depicted in Episode VII, The Force Awakens should have been Episode VIII, and The Last Jedi should have been Episode IX and should have concluded with Luke killing Kylo Ren. Instead we have to fill in the gaps with flashbacks and visions; plot devices which are inconsistent with the storytelling methodology established in the earlier Star Wars films. These movies are numbered for a reason. They're a linear narrative. Sure, Lucas released them in a nonlinear way by producing Episodes IV-VI first. But the events depicted within the films are presented in a straightforward numerical structure. The new trilogy's deviated from that tradition.

I've got a million more things to say about this film, but I'll leave it there for now. This is already way beyond TL:DR. Hopefully when I've have time to process my initial disappointment, I might find more to like in it. But right now, I feel very unenthusiastic about this whole trilogy. They've killed off all the great characters now except Leia, and we know she won't be returning in Episode IX due to Carrie Fisher's death. I don't care about Rey, Finn and Poe, so I don't feel any excitement about seeing what happens to them in Episode IX.  The nostalgia card has been well and truly played, and the final film in this trilogy will have to stand on its own (but don't be surprised if they drag out Lando or a few Force ghosts for emergency fan service). What baffles me is that they've already announced another trilogy to follow this one. If they can't even think of enough original ideas for Episodes VII and VIII – and evidently they can't – then how do they hope to make another four films after that?

I remember when the critics raved about Star Trek Into Darkness, but the fans hated it. I'm predicting a similar outcome for The Last Jedi. I see it has a high Rotten Tomatoes score, but I bet you anything the audience ratings will be considerably lower.

[The Laughing Fish]

I saw it a few nights ago.

I told to several of my co-workers that after watching The Last Jedi, I think I'm going to give the prequels another chance. They loved my comment so much that they wrote down what I said on a sticky note and pinned it up on a wall.

I know that sounds such a harsh thing to say, but the truth is I didn't hate it. I just thought it was mediocre. I enjoyed The Force Awakens more than this, but so far, only Rogue One is the most impressive and creative out of all these Disney SW films to date.

[Travesty]

Man, I would love to discuss why I think Luke's arc is contradictory from what we saw in the original trilogy, but apparently, charterer arcs and contradictions mean two separate things, and they can't tie into one another. So therefore, my opinion must be wrong. #OhWell

[Azrael]

Agreed with many sentiments expressed above, especially SN's review.

The Last Jedi was... "fun" I guess, entertaining while eating popcorn, great visuals and music, it was Mark Hammill's return to the franchise with some awesome Luke moments, but the more you think about it, the worse it seems. I don't have any inclination to rewatch it any time soon. After my first viewing of Revenge of the Sith, I couldn't wait to revisit it. With this one, I prefer watching Mark Hammill's interviews.

I liked Luke and Leia's reunion, accompanied by the subtle use of music themes from Empire and Jedi, this one was a good, nostalgic, emotional moment.

The prequels slowly, but steadily, gain appreciation for the things they did right (they are still fairly "recent", the last one released a little more than 10 years before the first sequel by JJ and Disney was in theaters). The legacy of Disney's Star Wars will be decided many years from now and, judging by what we have seen, Time will not be very kind.

[The Laughing Fish]

Man, I would love to discuss why I think Luke's arc is contradictory from what we saw in the original trilogy, but apparently, charterer arcs and contradictions mean two separate things, and they can't tie into one another. So therefore, my opinion must be wrong. #OhWell

I'm very mixed about Luke in The Last Jedi (Spoilers below in white):

I wasn't totally convinced by Luke's backstory with Kylo Ren. On one hand, it's kinda interesting that he's traumatised by how the Dark Side corrupts, and that's why he contemplated killing Kylo Ren. But then again, this is the same man who rightly believed Darth Vader, his own diabolical father, could be redeemed! It is one of the many things about TLJ that doesn't sit well with me.

Another thing I don't like about the film is that Laura Dern character, and her sacrifice felt forced for somebody who we have never seen before, as was the hint she was good friends with Leia. I think it would've been better if Admiral Ackbar sacrificed himself to buy Leia and co some time to escape. Instead, he dies off-screen.

[thecolorsblend]

Apparently TLJ was the last straw for a lot of people. The movie may be a critical darling and it might be raking in the cash. But it looks this is becoming the Star Wars movie that finally broke the camel's back for a lot of people.

I ain't even mad. I'm glad about it, actually. There are three good movies in this series: Star Wars '77, Empire and Jedi; everything else is a sub-standard footnote.

Yes, even Rogue One. Especially Rogue One.

I haven't seen the movie and I doubt I ever will. But for those of you who hated it, welcome to my world.

[Catwoman]

Finally saw this this afternoon. Good, not great, which by default is so disappointing. I loved the humor and I don't mind it being similar to ESB or being fan service-y (this franchise has been fan service since 1983) but I disagree with how they portrayed Luke which is a huge, HUGE letdown and Finn was basically wasted on what felt a throw in side mission to get him and the new girl in the game which sucked since he basically grew none from the end of TFA to the end of this one. And who the hell/what was the point of Admiral Purple Hair Lady except to make me want to dye my hair purple ASAP? And is Snoke the biggest waste of a big baddy ever or what? I feel like they should put him in some of those anti smoking ads to get some worthwhile use out of him cause thats what he looks like. On the flip side I totally freaking love Poe. All I can say to him is "Hell yes."

Mixed emotions with Rey and the "answers" we got in this movie. The scene in the cave was interesting but when she reveals she knew her parents were nobody it's like "Ooooook what was the f***ing point of the cave scene other than to draw this out as far as possible?" I enjoyed her otherwise, I know some people hate the idea of a girl being the galaxy's new savior but, eh, I'm ok with it....

I will have to see Episode IX to judge how I feel about Kylo Ren in this movie. I think I liked his portrayal but we need to see where he goes.

I guess it's fate (or, if you prefer, *super gravelly voice* MY DESTINYYYYY) that I saw this on the one year anniversary of Carrie's passing. Made certain scenes with her all too real and difficult to bear. But I loved her performance. And if anyone on this site was going to ugly cry at the tribute in the credits it was going to be me, and guess what? I totally did.

To sum up how I feel about the movie, I have to invoke a spoiler. Know how Yoda *pause for fangirl squeal over the return of Yoda* says about the Jedi texts "Page turners, they are not?" You could say about Star Wars movies "Popcorn Flicks, they are not." But this turned into one. Like I said, I loved the humor, that wasn't the problem. Without it I would have liked the movie less. It was characterizations, throwaway scenes, etc. that are the problem. These movies are held to a higher standard and it just didn't deliver. I can only rate it a 6 out of 10. Wish I had used my ticket to see Justice League instead.