Facebook
twitter

Author Topic: Marvelís The Defenders (Netflix)  (Read 3730 times)

Offline Silver Nemesis

  • Staff
  • Dark Detective
  • *****
  • Forum posts: 1,734
    • View Profile
Re: Marvelís The Defenders (Netflix)
« Reply #20 on: Thu, 13 Jul 2017, 19:17 »
Another clue points to the Punisher making an appearance:

Quote
In an email sent to members of the press attending Comic-Con International Marvel and Netflix revealed the panel participants for the Defenders panel that is taking place on Friday the 21st.

Panel Participants: Mike Colter, Finn Jones, Charlie Cox, Krysten Ritter, Elodie Yung, Deborah Ann Woll, Jessica Henwick, Marco Ramirez, Jon Bernthal and Jeph Loeb.

Bernthal is on the list to be on the panel. Now, this could mean that heís there to promote his solo series but there havenít been any hints about that and heís the only member of that cast on the list aside from Deborah Ann Woll. The panel is specifically listed as a Defenders panel and while they showed footage from other series at the Luke Cage panel last year there werenít any members of those casts present.
https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/07/12/rumor-marvelnetflix-just-confirm-punisher-defenders/

Offline thecolorsblend

  • Winged Avenger
  • ****
  • Forum posts: 2,447
  • Image uploads: 18
  • calmer than you are
    • View Profile
Re: Marvelís The Defenders (Netflix)
« Reply #21 on: Fri, 14 Jul 2017, 02:20 »
I do see strong similarities between Reborn and Lone Stranger, but not between Reborn and Born Again. Perhaps the people making those comparisons havenít read many DD comics.
I think people tend to get tripped up the somewhat similar names and the basic idea of Murdock not being Daredevil for a while and then becoming Daredevil again. If that's as far into the analysis as someone gets, yeah, I guess I can see how they seem fairly similar to one another.

But in the real world, no. As you say, they're nothing alike.

Offline riddler

  • Gotham Citizen
  • Dark Detective
  • ***
  • Forum posts: 1,159
  • Image uploads: 1
  • ?????????????????????????
    • View Profile
    • my forum
Re: Marvelís The Defenders (Netflix)
« Reply #22 on: Fri, 14 Jul 2017, 04:36 »
Nocenti's run is a pretty big blind spot for me, tbh.

Iíve got a soft spot for Nocentiís era. The very first Daredevil comic I ever bought as a child was this one:


This may also acseye being my favourite Daredevil villain. That issue came right at the end of Nocentiís run, and I didnít get to read her earlier stories until many years later. Sheís generally held in high regard by Daredevil fans and I rate her highly myself. Nocenti had the unenviable task of following Born Again, but she did a surprisingly great job of bridging the gap between Miller and Chichester. Her take on the material is deeply idiosyncratic (and at times downright weird) and places its emphasis on the more spiritual, compassionate side of Mattís character. Iíd definitely rank her amongst my top ten Daredevil writers, perhaps even amongst my top five. There is however one major oft-cited drawback to her run thatís impossible to ignore: the politics.

Nocenti had a habit of injecting her own liberal viewpoints into many of her stories. I donít really have a problem with this, as long as the views being expressed are consistent with Mattís own ideology and as long as theyíre not too heavy-handed. A story about the evils of pollution? Ok, I can live with that. A story about the plight of the homeless? Thatís a noble cause and one thatís close to Mattís heart, so Iíve no problem with that either. A story about domestic violence? Fine. A story about the cruelty of battery farms? Ok. But just check out this scene from ĎVital Signsí (Daredevil Vol 1 #260, November 1988).




I too think Bullseye is the best Daredevil villain. The Kingpin is more of a behind the scenes villain and is also a Spidey villain. The punisher is more of an anti-hero. Bullseye vs. Daredevil is a perfect analogy for why sometimes in sports, teams just can not beat an inferior team no matter how many tries they get. Bullseye has dead accuracy, Daredevil is blind. Bullseye should be able to hit Daredevil with ease  but every time it comes down to it, Daredevil can successfully defend against Bullseye's biggest asset- his accuracy via his sonic senses while Bullseye despite eventually figuring out ways to exploit Daredevils enhanced senses against him, never does it enough to beat him. It also exemplifies why Daredevil can be such an underdog but come out on top.

Offline Silver Nemesis

  • Staff
  • Dark Detective
  • *****
  • Forum posts: 1,734
    • View Profile
Re: Marvelís The Defenders (Netflix)
« Reply #23 on: Fri, 14 Jul 2017, 19:56 »
Bullseye is despicably awesome. Besides his impressive skill set, everything else about him is beyond contempt.

His back storyís pathetic. He killed his abusive dad, became a Major League baseball player, got bored during his first game and killed the batter, was recruited as a black ops agent for the NSA and eventually went rogue. Thatís it. No sympathetic tragedy. No long lost love. Heís just a violent psychopath who likes hurting people. He killed Elektra, he killed Karen Page, and he almost killed Daredevilís mum. He also massacred an entire church full of nuns and once murdered a woman with a toothpick while she was holding her baby just to show off his skills to a potential client.


What a scumbag. In ĎBullseye!í (Daredevil Vol #290, March 1991) he goes on a crime wave disguised as Daredevil. And one of the newspaper reports mentions rape amongst his list of crimes.


I remember reading this issue as a kid and finding that detail really disturbing. I think it was the first time I saw a reference to rape in a comic book. And the idea of a costumed character doing it somehow made it worse.

At least the Jokerís got stories like The Killing Joke and Going Sane to lend him some shred of humanity. But Bullseye? Forget it. To quote Henry Jones Senior, heís ďthe shlime [sic] of humanityĒ. But thatís why heís such a great villain. If you were to use Seth Brundleís gene splicer to fuse Joker and Deadshot into a single being, then raise the amalgamated creature in the sleaziest brothel in Basin Cityís Old Town, then the resultant individual would be Bullseye.


His skills are beyond equal and his purpose is singular. What gives the character depth is his relationship with Daredevil. Daredevilís the one guy who can own him so badly he literally begs for mercy and cries like a child. This only makes things worse, because then Bullseye spends his time incarcerated dwelling on that humiliation and training himself up to take revenge. Itís a never-ending cycle. When Daredevil saved his life that time he had a brain tumour, that only increased Bullseyeís hatred towards him further. You canít reason with Bullseye. You canít give him what he wants and expect him to spare your life. You can only hope Daredevil shows up and draws his fire before he pokes your head full of paperclips. Or paper planes. Or pencils. Or anything else he can get his hands on. Heís an absolutely vile character, but a brilliant villain. Itís a tall order to do him justice in the TV show, but if they pull it off like they did with Fisk then he might just be the best MCU villain ever.

Offline Silver Nemesis

  • Staff
  • Dark Detective
  • *****
  • Forum posts: 1,734
    • View Profile
Re: Marvelís The Defenders (Netflix)
« Reply #24 on: Fri, 14 Jul 2017, 22:51 »
New Comic-Con poster by Joshua James Shaw:


Looks like Dannyís wearing some variation of his comic costume. Now he just needs his mask to complete the look. :)

Offline thecolorsblend

  • Winged Avenger
  • ****
  • Forum posts: 2,447
  • Image uploads: 18
  • calmer than you are
    • View Profile
Re: Marvelís The Defenders (Netflix)
« Reply #25 on: Sat, 15 Jul 2017, 17:38 »
The thing that works for me about Bullseye is how his sob story really isn't any worse than Daredevil's. Murdock was abandoned by his mother (and yeah, it's a bit more complicated than that but that's still the basic truth of it), his father was a very flawed man, he grew up in poverty, he lost his vision at a young age (while doing the right thing, no less!), he was tormented as a child by bullies who knew his handicap damn good and well, the whole program. Both men suffered a harsh upbringing.

But this is clearly an instance where nature wins out over nurture in both men's cases. Each of them had perfectly understandable reasons for being angry at the world. But only one of them rose above to contribute to society in obviously beneficial ways (in court) and in sometimes destructive ways (the horns and billy club). Realistically, Bullseye's trajectory didn't have to be any different than Daredevil's. He could've risen above too. He even had several opportunities to do so. But he went another way.

I don't think Bullseye would be as effective as he is if he was anybody else's rogue. The dynamic just wouldn't work as well with, say, Spider-Man or the Punisher or whoever else. There's a specific synergy which exists between Daredevil and Bullseye, and it isn't fungible. They're from the same place in a weird kind of way. Maybe different zip codes but still the same basic place.

Of all people, Murdock is uniquely qualified to have absolutely no sympathy whatsoever for Bullseye. Spider-Man, for example, would probably give Bullseye some measure of pity that the man simply doesn't deserve. Daredevil is probably the only character in the Marvel universe who can "look" Bullseye in the eye and tell him where to stick it. There's probably nobody in the DC universe who can do it either. But Daredevil can. Because he's been there himself.

As to Kingpin being a Spidey villain... no. He may have made his debut appearances in Spider-Man comics but he's a Daredevil villain through and through. And honestly, for a lot of the same reasons as Bullseye. Kingpin and Murdock can relate to each other in ways that Spider-Man and Kingpin (or Spider-Man and Daredevil, for that matter) never could. Again, they're from the same place.

The hell of it is though, Kingpin truly can transcend. Bullseye is a murderer. He was born a murderer and he'll die a murderer. But Kingpin... well, that didn't have to be his story. Kingpin wallows in the muck ultimately because he has absolutely no conscience. But he's capable of succeeding and achieving in the business world. And he'd probably be just as rich that way. But the man simply doesn't have a conscience.

And to me, guys like Kingpin are the scariest in the whole world. Bullseye will kill you because he's just an evil SOB. What do you want to hear? It's what the guy is. But Fisk's absolute lack of morality scares the piss out of me. He's completely amoral. That's not the same as immoral. Because Fisk does do some legitimately honorable things at times. But he also does some incredibly evil stuff too and the only way of getting there is through an amorality so precise as to border on a bizarre kind of religious vow or something.

Fisk isn't "evil" in the usual sense of the word. He's absolutely amoral. He does good things and he does evil things. His abject lack of conscience is what's truly terrifying for me. Say what you want about Bullseye but you know where you stand with him. But with Fisk... I wouldn't even know where to start.

Both characters are great villains for Daredevil. And yes, they are Daredevil's villains.

Offline Silver Nemesis

  • Staff
  • Dark Detective
  • *****
  • Forum posts: 1,734
    • View Profile
Re: Marvelís The Defenders (Netflix)
« Reply #26 on: Sat, 15 Jul 2017, 23:26 »
Fisk could indeed pursue a legitimate path if he wanted to. We know this because weíve seen him do it. He lived a law-abiding life with Vanessa in Japan before he even met Daredevil, and he lived peacefully in Spain with Marta and her kids during the Return of the King storyline. But he keeps choosing the path of crime. Because, as you quite rightly point out, he has no moral compass. Fisk is governed by emotion, not morality. Occasionally he might display a spectre of compassion. For example, the kindness he showed Marta and her children in Return of the King. But once again, this arises from emotion. What might be misconstrued as moral virtue on his part is in fact sentimentality. The fact heís capable of sentimentality elevates him above Bullseye, who's really far too singular for that sort of thing.

And youíre correct about Bullseye only functioning in relation to Matt. Iíve read comics where Bullseye goes up against the Punisher or other heroes, and theyíre just not as compelling. Bullseye is Daredevilís shadow. I always dig the visual symmetry between the two of them. With Daredevil and Kingpin, thereís this whole David and Goliath dynamic where theyíre clearly mismatched on a physical level. But Daredevil and Bullseye are of similar height and build, and even their costumes look alike. If you look at that cover I posted earlier in the thread, thatís actually Matt wearing Bullseyeís costume as he beats the living daylights out of Poindexter/Lester/Leonard/whatever-the-hell-his-real-name-is. But you canít really tell, because physically theyíre so well balanced.


Both are capable of superhuman precision, both are experts in hand-to-hand combat. Theyíre not 100% evenly matched, because Daredevilís better. But Bullseyeís good enough to be a persistent pain in Mattís side. Kingpin is traditionally thought of as a mastermind-class villain, though he's obviously capable of being a soldier-class adversary whenever he and Daredevil trade blows. Bullseye, on the other hand, is the epitome of the soldier-class rank. Heís not an idiot, but heís nowhere near Fiskís level of Machiavellian cunning. As far as Iím concerned, Kingpin and Bullseye both have an equally strong claim to being Mattís nemesis.

Speaking of Fisk, Iíve just seen this piece of concept art from the upcoming Spider-Man videogame. It looks like the gameís version of Kingpin is visually modelled on DíOnofrioís incarnation.


Are we ever going to get a Daredevil game?

Offline thecolorsblend

  • Winged Avenger
  • ****
  • Forum posts: 2,447
  • Image uploads: 18
  • calmer than you are
    • View Profile
Re: Marvelís The Defenders (Netflix)
« Reply #27 on: Sun, 16 Jul 2017, 01:01 »
Both are capable of superhuman precision, both are experts in hand-to-hand combat. Theyíre not 100% evenly matched, because Daredevilís better. But Bullseyeís good enough to be a persistent pain in Mattís side. Kingpin is traditionally thought of as a mastermind-class villain, though he's obviously capable of being a soldier-class adversary whenever he and Daredevil trade blows. Bullseye, on the other hand, is the epitome of the soldier-class rank. Heís not an idiot, but heís nowhere near Fiskís level of Machiavellian cunning. As far as Iím concerned, Kingpin and Bullseye both have an equally strong claim to being Mattís nemesis.
People talk a lot of smack about Batman's rogues gallery being fun-house mirrors of him. But honestly, the whole "duality" thing can get a bit tiresome.

What plays for me with Daredevil's major rivals is how they both challenge Matt on moral levels. Yeah, there's the physical challenge they both present. That's obvious. But those two characters are, to Matt's worldview, vulgar. They're profane in the original sense of the word. Yeah, Fisk may or may not kick Daredevil's ass. But for as powerful as Fisk might be, what ultimately underlies Murdock's loathing for Fisk is the filth in which he willingly lives. Murdock's sense of self is so clearly defined that he knows (though without direct experience) that while he is intellectually capable of manufacturing that type of life for himself, he can't live it. And it sickens him that anybody ever could.

I think Murdock is sincerely disgusted by Fisk.

There's a sick-to-your-stomach outrage that Murdock experiences even seeing Fisk that I don't think any villain ever has or ever will bring out of Batman.

So I guess my point is that whatever Daredevil may lack in quantity of rogues he handily makes up for with quality.

Speaking of Fisk, Iíve just seen this piece of concept art from the upcoming Spider-Man videogame. It looks like the gameís version of Kingpin is visually modelled on DíOnofrioís incarnation.


Are we ever going to get a Daredevil game?
Some characters have a bizarre karma where they're destined to never get a decent video game. Superman is a good example of a character who has arguably never had a quality video game... even though I would've thought such a thing would be a no-brainer. A Daredevil video game could be amazing... but it could also be a trainwreck of mega proportions. And the line separating the two may be very thin indeed.

Offline Silver Nemesis

  • Staff
  • Dark Detective
  • *****
  • Forum posts: 1,734
    • View Profile
Re: Marvelís The Defenders (Netflix)
« Reply #28 on: Sun, 16 Jul 2017, 23:08 »
As I see it, there are two possible ways of approaching a Daredevil game. One would be to make a third-person action title similar to the Arkham series. Have a detailed free-roaming sandbox based on an accurately mapped Hellís Kitchen. Make it visually stylised to represent Mattís unique way of perceiving the world. The shapes would be accurate, but the colours would be wrong. Youíd have to touch signs and documents in order to read what they say. Gameplay would alternate between exploration, combat and detective puzzle solving. Youíd have the ability to focus one particular sense to track down a criminal. Thereíd be unlockable upgrades for your billy club and alternate costumes. There could perhaps even be courtroom scenes where you play as Matt Murdock.

If such a title was too expensive, they could always make a Matt Murdock: Ace Attorney game in the style of the Phoenix Wright series and release it for handheld systems and mobile devices. I was hoping Daredevil would be a playable character in the new Marvel vs. Capcom: Infinite game so you could have him fight Phoenix Wright, but it looks like heís been left out. Again. The Charlie Cox Daredevil was playable in Marvel Contest of Champions, but thatís hardly comparable to having his own Arkham-class game.




Part of the problem is Daredevilís never been very popular compared to other characters. Serious comic fans know how awesome he is, but only the cool kids read his stories. The smaller, exclusive nature of DD fandom is part of what makes him hip, but it also precludes more expensive peripherals such as videogames. The closest we ever got to a proper DD game was this:


Offline thecolorsblend

  • Winged Avenger
  • ****
  • Forum posts: 2,447
  • Image uploads: 18
  • calmer than you are
    • View Profile
Re: Marvelís The Defenders (Netflix)
« Reply #29 on: Mon, 17 Jul 2017, 03:18 »
I haven't watched the video game so what I'm about to say may have been intended for the cancelled game.

But I think whether or not an Arkham style approach is used or not, one neat feature would be toggling between "regular vision" (eg, POV type stuff) and "radar sense". Perhaps some entire levels would be fight in pitch darkness, requiring the use of the radar sense. Usage of this could be complicated by loud reverberating sounds which distort the radar.

The only real idea I had was a scenario where Daredevil has to infiltrate the Kingpin's compound. The objective would be to find some vital clue or something that reveals where the next piece of the tri-force is hidden without being seen. That seems more interesting to me than storming the castle, guns blazing. Daredevil is a ninja, after all, so why not have a sequence that depends upon him using his skills for infiltration, sneaking around and avoiding detection?

Mind you, I'm not a gamer so this stuff might be sort of lame. I wouldn't know.

 

    
Not a member? Click here to register now!
Latest Forum Post
Re: Wouldnít keeping the Joker alive jeopardize the Dent cover-up?
by riddler
Total Members: 700 | Total Posts: 49,124 | Total Topics: 3,146

SMF 2.0.13 | SMF © 2016, Simple Machines
Simple Audio Video Embedder
| Design based on the Reference theme by Crip XHTML RSS WAP2 iPhone Theme Scrolling News Ticker by Mioplanet
"BATMAN" all related characters indicia are copyrighted by D.C. COMICS, a TIME-WARNER company. Batman created by Bob Kane and Bill Finger.
All features, articles and blogs are © of Batman-Online.com's staff & members (unless otherwise indicated) and may NOT be copied without the author's permission. All artwork is © of respective owners.
This is NOT an official Batman website. Conceived, designed and edited by Paul Rodgers since 1st June 2002. Facebook and twitter feeds maintained by Rick Francis and Azrael.