Did Batman adopt a moral code by the end of the movie?

Started by The Laughing Fish, Sun, 23 Nov 2014, 02:45

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Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 27 Jun  2015, 10:15
Tommy Lee's Two-Face is very much dead.
It's likely he's in a coma, but his clothes were in the Arkham locker in Batman & Robin, showcasing that he's there.

The jacket is a cameo and nothing more. A throwback to the previous film, providing connective tissue. Nobody survives a plunge into a watery grave full of rocks. The look on Robin's face said it all. And the cue name on the score is Two-Face's Demise.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 27 Jun  2015, 13:22
The jacket is a cameo and nothing more. A throwback to the previous film, providing connective tissue. Nobody survives a plunge into a watery grave full of rocks. The look on Robin's face said it all. And the cue name on the score is Two-Face's Demise.
So? The director himself said that it was left ambiguous purposefully. If his costume is there, he's alive. People survive ridiculous falls all the time. But it's likely he's in a coma. The look on Robin's face gives us very little clue about whether or not he's alive.

Sun, 28 Jun 2015, 03:50 #13 Last Edit: Sun, 28 Jun 2015, 03:53 by The Laughing Fish
Quote from: Dagenspear on Sat, 27 Jun  2015, 14:08
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 27 Jun  2015, 13:22
The jacket is a cameo and nothing more. A throwback to the previous film, providing connective tissue. Nobody survives a plunge into a watery grave full of rocks. The look on Robin's face said it all. And the cue name on the score is Two-Face's Demise.
So? The director himself said that it was left ambiguous purposefully. If his costume is there, he's alive. People survive ridiculous falls all the time. But it's likely he's in a coma. The look on Robin's face gives us very little clue about whether or not he's alive.

When did Joel Schumacher say that Two-Face's fate was left ambiguous? Was it in a DVD commentary?

I preferred that he did die because it would only undermine Batman's sacrifice to relieve Robin's desire for revenge.

Besides, I thought the scene more than heavily implies that Two-Face died from that height. Even for comic book fiction, a fall from that height is not survivable.
QuoteJonathan Nolan: He [Batman] has this one rule, as the Joker says in The Dark Knight. But he does wind up breaking it. Does he break it in the third film?

Christopher Nolan: He breaks it in...

Jonathan Nolan: ...the first two.

Source: http://books.google.com.au/books?id=uwV8rddtKRgC&pg=PR8&dq=But+he+does+wind+up+breaking+it.&hl=en&sa=X&ei

Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sun, 28 Jun  2015, 03:50
Quote from: Dagenspear on Sat, 27 Jun  2015, 14:08
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 27 Jun  2015, 13:22
The jacket is a cameo and nothing more. A throwback to the previous film, providing connective tissue. Nobody survives a plunge into a watery grave full of rocks. The look on Robin's face said it all. And the cue name on the score is Two-Face's Demise.
So? The director himself said that it was left ambiguous purposefully. If his costume is there, he's alive. People survive ridiculous falls all the time. But it's likely he's in a coma. The look on Robin's face gives us very little clue about whether or not he's alive.

When did Joel Schumacher say that Two-Face's fate was left ambiguous? Was it in a DVD commentary?

I preferred that he did die because it would only undermine Batman's sacrifice to relieve Robin's desire for revenge.

Besides, I thought the scene more than heavily implies that Two-Face died from that height. Even for comic book fiction, a fall from that height is not survivable.
I believe it was in the commentary.

Quote from: Dagenspear on Sat, 27 Jun  2015, 14:08
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 27 Jun  2015, 13:22
The jacket is a cameo and nothing more. A throwback to the previous film, providing connective tissue. Nobody survives a plunge into a watery grave full of rocks. The look on Robin's face said it all. And the cue name on the score is Two-Face's Demise.
So? The director himself said that it was left ambiguous purposefully. If his costume is there, he's alive. People survive ridiculous falls all the time. But it's likely he's in a coma. The look on Robin's face gives us very little clue about whether or not he's alive.

Could he not have had more than one suit? The deleted scene at the beginning shows Two face was already in arkham asylum and I believe it's stated early on in the film that he broke out of arkham so it's quite possible that suit was there before the events of Batman Forever.

Quote from: riddler on Fri,  3 Jul  2015, 06:17
Quote from: Dagenspear on Sat, 27 Jun  2015, 14:08
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 27 Jun  2015, 13:22
The jacket is a cameo and nothing more. A throwback to the previous film, providing connective tissue. Nobody survives a plunge into a watery grave full of rocks. The look on Robin's face said it all. And the cue name on the score is Two-Face's Demise.
So? The director himself said that it was left ambiguous purposefully. If his costume is there, he's alive. People survive ridiculous falls all the time. But it's likely he's in a coma. The look on Robin's face gives us very little clue about whether or not he's alive.

Could he not have had more than one suit? The deleted scene at the beginning shows Two face was already in arkham asylum and I believe it's stated early on in the film that he broke out of arkham so it's quite possible that suit was there before the events of Batman Forever.
That's a deleted scene.

I'm looking back to what JokerMeThis said earlier. If you can judge the scene by itself without thinking about BF for a moment, I think it can be easily argued that Batman wasn't pleading to Catwoman because he was arguing from a moral standpoint or concerned for Max Schreck's safety. He was simply worried that someone who he cared about was letting her rage tear her apart. Although I still find his objection over her remark about the law not applying to them unnecessary.
QuoteJonathan Nolan: He [Batman] has this one rule, as the Joker says in The Dark Knight. But he does wind up breaking it. Does he break it in the third film?

Christopher Nolan: He breaks it in...

Jonathan Nolan: ...the first two.

Source: http://books.google.com.au/books?id=uwV8rddtKRgC&pg=PR8&dq=But+he+does+wind+up+breaking+it.&hl=en&sa=X&ei

Quote from: Dagenspear on Fri,  3 Jul  2015, 16:49That's a deleted scene.
Dialogue earlier in the movie makes it clear that this isn't the first time Batman's gone up against Two Face. It's at least the second, fittingly enough.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 30 Aug  2015, 23:20
Quote from: Dagenspear on Fri,  3 Jul  2015, 16:49That's a deleted scene.
Dialogue earlier in the movie makes it clear that this isn't the first time Batman's gone up against Two Face. It's at least the second, fittingly enough.

I'm sure that in the film Batman tells Chase that it was the second anniversary of their first fight when Two-Face did the bank robbery.