The DC Band-Aid Project

[The Joker]

Looks like we're getting yet another shake up over at DC comics come spring 2015 (30th anniversary of Crisis on Infinite Earths to bring it home even further).

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2014/06/12/the-dc-band-aid-a-love-letter-to-dc-comics-fans/

http://www.comicplanetculture.com/in-with-the-old-out-with-the-new-52-the-latest-buzz-on-the-dcu/

Speculation is all over the place at the moment, but it will be interesting to read more about this as the time gets closer to a more formal announcement.....

[Silver Nemesis]

It will be interesting to see if anything comes of these rumours. I read somewhere recently that the New 52 sales boom wore off in 2013, and that sale figures are basically back to where they were pre-Flashpoint. Which means Marvel is once again outselling DC. I don't know if that's true, but if it is then it might give DC an incentive to pursue another major 'event' storyline. So I wouldn't rule out yet another 'Crisis' in 2015.

I don't know how everyone else feels about the New 52, but I've always had mixed feelings about it. I've enjoyed the New 52 Flash comics and bits of the Snyder/Capullo Batman run. But I can't say I like what they've done with Superman, especially when compared to the way Geoff Johns, Richard Donner and Kurt Busiek handled the character in the years leading up to Flashpoint.

If DC does opt for another reboot, should they simply restore the pre-Flashpoint universe as canon or go in a completely new direction?

[The Joker]

It will be interesting to see if anything comes of these rumours. I read somewhere recently that the New 52 sales boom wore off in 2013, and that sale figures are basically back to where they were pre-Flashpoint. Which means Marvel is once again outselling DC. I don't know if that's true, but if it is then it might give DC an incentive to pursue another major 'event' storyline. So I wouldn't rule out yet another 'Crisis' in 2015.

You know what? I've read the same thing about the sales dipping to pre-New52 levels as well, Silver Nemesis. I have no idea if it's actually true, and for the life of me, cannot recall exactly where I read that, but if that is 'indeed' the case, to me it really speaks volumes about the overall quality of the New52, and it's general reception at this point.

I don't know how everyone else feels about the New 52, but I've always had mixed feelings about it. I've enjoyed the New 52 Flash comics and bits of the Snyder/Capullo Batman run. But I can't say I like what they've done with Superman, especially when compared to the way Geoff Johns, Richard Donner and Kurt Busiek handled the character in the years leading up to Flashpoint.

I was one of those guys willing to give the New52 a shot, but have found myself, over time, disliking the overall product. Though I agree there have been decent stuff that has come out of it, I don't feel it's really enough to warrant dumping so much years of continuity and such for what essentially only possibly resulted in a 2-3 year sales hike. To me, there's just something very "Heroes Reborn" (ah ... the gimmick heavy '90's ... yikes) about the New52.

If DC does opt for another reboot, should they simply restore the pre-Flashpoint universe as canon or go in a completely new direction?

I guess that's the $64,000 question, Silver Nemesis. On one hand, I'm sure alot of fans wouldn't mind that timeline restored to what it was just prior to Flashpoint, where other fans openly express that the Pre-Flashpoint DCU wasn't exactly great either and cite decreasing sales in readership as a bullet point, and then of course you have readers who first got on board with DC because of the New52, and would be completely lost in what's going on with a previous timeline restored.

DC, in my opinion, has done themselves no favors by going with such a drastic overall with the DCU, where they could have simply took the "Ultimate" approach and given readers alternate/modern takes without taking away the main DCU...

[The Dark Knight]

Well, I have enjoyed the New 52 Batman titles quite a lot. Court of Owls, Death of the Family and Zero Year have been some of the best runs in years. Great ideas in there, and I think they would make good films. Court of Owls particularly.

[The Joker]

Hmm .. May as well note that Batman is a character, post the New52 clean sweep (..or whatever it's meant to be; new directions, ignoring history, or cherry picking what goes and stays as though it never happened) that had the luxury of not receiving the complete overhaul like others. In addition, that character has been either the nucleus or the catalyst for some of the more interesting changes that have since transpired in the New 52.

Course that shouldn't be surprising to anyone. Batman titles actually sold prior to the relaunch, and I can see why DC would have been reluctant about wiping out all the stuff. Especially with what Morrison had incorporated during his time on the Bat-books. *cough* Damien *cough* It also shouldn't be surprising to see how Superman and Batman, and related titles, constitutes for such a large portion of the books under the New52 umbrella. Which, by the way, has only increased since Sept 2011.

Overall, as a whole with the New52, there has been some public editorial differences with creators, some questionable time frames; like so many Robins in a rather limited amount of time (why haven't heroes had a serious talk with Batman over this??), and some 'choice' costume changes/updates. -- You know what I mean, general over use of straps, belts and costume "flair" that either have no purpose, practical use, or are just there to be a bit more extravagant than they need to be. You know,  the "look" that was defined as an "Image" one. Yes, it would appear the '90's are back (thanks Jim Lee!) extra straps and belts and what not. In essence, costumes just looking "busy".

Some of it has been a success (Batman (obviously), Flash (haven't read New52 Flash, but Silver Nemesis likes it and that's more than enough to warrant it, Swamp Thing, Animal Man (sadly now-cancelled, heard some good stuff about Wonder Woman, Superman a bit uneven here and there), alot of it a mixed bag (to put it politely and too many titles to name here). If sales are actually down to pre-New52 levels (would be curious to find out how much the gimmicky 3D/alternate covers, and continual crossover 'event' storylines are skewing the current sales figures), then I can't see "successful" being a word to describe this.

[Silver Nemesis]

Well, I have enjoyed the New 52 Batman titles quite a lot. Court of Owls, Death of the Family and Zero Year have been some of the best runs in years. Great ideas in there, and I think they would make good films. Court of Owls particularly.

I liked the Court of Owls storyline a lot. It's probably my favourite New 52 Batman story to date. And you're right about it making a great movie. With DC Entertainment adapting many of its most recent films from the New 52 canon, there's a good chance they might adapt that one too. I'm hoping they'll adapt Gotham by Gaslight first, but the Court of Owls is definitely on my wish list.

And needless to say the Talons would have fit in perfectly with the Burtonverse. Starling practically says as much in Birds of Prey #9.

DC, in my opinion, has done themselves no favors by going with such a drastic overall with the DCU, where they could have simply took the "Ultimate" approach and given readers alternate/modern takes without taking away the main DCU...

Very true. And when you consider they already had an 'Ultimates' line in the works with the Earth One series, the reboot seems even more redundant. Or perhaps it's more accurate to say the New 52 made the Earth One series redundant.

Another possibility I've heard some people suggest is that DC could execute a hard reboot, throwing everything out and literally starting from scratch. So that way nothing would be carried over from any previous era. But would that be too drastic? Maybe a soft reboot along the lines of Zero Hour (1994) would be preferable, just to iron out the creases.

Hmm .. May as well note that Batman is a character, post the New52 clean sweep (..or whatever it's meant to be; new directions, ignoring history, or cherry picking what goes and stays as though it never happened) that had the luxury of not receiving the complete overhaul like others. In addition, that character has been either the nucleus or the catalyst for some of the more interesting changes that have since transpired in the New 52.

Course that shouldn't be surprising to anyone. Batman titles actually sold prior to the relaunch, and I can see why DC would have been reluctant about wiping out all the stuff. Especially with what Morrison had incorporated during his time on the Bat-books. *cough* Damien *cough* It also shouldn't be surprising to see how Superman and Batman, and related titles, constitutes for such a large portion of the books under the New52 umbrella. Which, by the way, has only increased since Sept 2011.

I remember a while back there was a discussion on this site about how the Siegel-Shuster legal dispute with Warner Bros might have influenced certain creative decisions regarding Man of Steel (e.g. getting rid of the trunks, not using the word 'Superman' in the title, downplaying the Lois and Clark romance), and I can't help thinking that court case might have influenced the New 52 as well. As you say, Batman hasn't been affected too badly by the reboot (besides a few silly things, like the absurd number of Robins he's gone through in such a short time span), whereas Superman has undergone some fairly drastic overhauls. I can't help wondering if that was WB/DC's way of showing the estates of Siegel and Shuster that Superman could survive without those elements the judge was threatening to hand them the rights to.

Of course not long after the court case was resolved in WB's favour, DC announced the Adventures of Superman digital comic featuring the classic costume. Coincidence?

Overall, as a whole with the New52, there has been some public editorial differences with creators, some questionable time frames; like so many Robins in a rather limited amount of time (why haven't heroes had a serious talk with Batman over this??), and some 'choice' costume changes/updates. -- You know what I mean, general over use of straps, belts and costume "flair" that either have no purpose, practical use, or are just there to be a bit more extravagant than they need to be. You know,  the "look" that was defined as an "Image" one. Yes, it would appear the '90's are back (thanks Jim Lee!) extra straps and belts and what not. In essence, costumes just looking "busy".

I'm not mad on the 'busy' look either. At first I wasn't sure if it was an attempt to reflect the more realistic aesthetic of the batsuit in the Nolan Batman films, and then it somehow spread to the other DC characters, or if it was an attempt to establish new looks that would work better in potential film adaptations. But I think you're right about it being a side effect of merging the WildStorm and DC universes. Just look at all the straps and panels on Tim Drake's costume. He looks like an action figure made to promote a Joel Schumacher Batman film.

Compare that to his old costume...

Some of it has been a success (Batman (obviously), Flash (haven't read New52 Flash, but Silver Nemesis likes it and that's more than enough to warrant it, Swamp Thing, Animal Man (sadly now-cancelled, heard some good stuff about Wonder Woman, Superman a bit uneven here and there), alot of it a mixed bag (to put it politely and too many titles to name here). If sales are actually down to pre-New52 levels (would be curious to find out how much the gimmicky 3D/alternate covers, and continual crossover 'event' storylines are skewing the current sales figures), then I can't see "successful" being a word to describe this.

I can't argue with that. I pretty much agree with your views on the New 52 in general. Presumably another 'Crisis' event would only lead to another temporary sales spike. DC needs to think beyond transient gimmicks and focus on long-term solutions that will attract loyal readers and hold on to them. Evidently the New 52 wasn't such a long-term solution.

[The Joker]

Very true. And when you consider they already had an 'Ultimates' line in the works with the Earth One series, the reboot seems even more redundant. Or perhaps it's more accurate to say the New 52 made the Earth One series redundant.

You know, Silver Nemesis, I completely forgot about the Earth One series, and you're absolutely right. The New52 has indeed made that line of books completely redundant. Personally, I enjoyed the Earth One books, and found myself liking Vol. 2 of Superman, more than Vol. 1, and felt Batman Earth One Vol. 1 was a pretty solid start as well. To me, these books bring further evidence that the whole New52 overhaul wasn't exactly planned in advance, and was likely hastily thrown together to appease the desires of Dan Didio (who from what I understand was wanting to reboot following 2005's Infinite Crisis) and Bob Harris.

Another possibility I've heard some people suggest is that DC could execute a hard reboot, throwing everything out and literally starting from scratch. So that way nothing would be carried over from any previous era. But would that be too drastic? Maybe a soft reboot along the lines of Zero Hour (1994) would be preferable, just to iron out the creases.

I'm finding myself being more and more in favor of a hard reboot than I am another Zero Hour event where continuity and such can be, atleast in theory, fixed/straightened out from what we have got from a large portion of the New52..  I've read several interviews from comic book writers/artists throughout the years, and a popular paraphrased quote cited to have come from Stan Lee is; "Every comic is, or could potentially be, someone's first comic book". Basically, every book needs to be a "jumping on point" for a new reader. If the industry hopes to survive, I think the classic interpretations of these characters definitely need to be continually acknowledged and on the forefront. Constantly changing things around, announcing event after event, and thus becoming incredibly convoluted as a result ('convoluted' was the reasoning for COIE right? Because of Earth Two? Ironic since the New52 is basking in it's multiversity!), gets really tiresome after awhile. Not only that, but boring and redundant. And lazy. And not new reader friendly. It's EASY to break the mold. Finding ways to stay inside it, and still be fresh and innovative -- THAT'S the challenge.

I remember a while back there was a discussion on this site about how the Siegel-Shuster legal dispute with Warner Bros might have influenced certain creative decisions regarding Man of Steel (e.g. getting rid of the trunks, not using the word 'Superman' in the title, downplaying the Lois and Clark romance), and I can't help thinking that court case might have influenced the New 52 as well. As you say, Batman hasn't been affected too badly by the reboot (besides a few silly things, like the absurd number of Robins he's gone through in such a short time span), whereas Superman has undergone some fairly drastic overhauls. I can't help wondering if that was WB/DC's way of showing the estates of Siegel and Shuster that Superman could survive without those elements the judge was threatening to hand them the rights to.

Of course not long after the court case was resolved in WB's favour, DC announced the Adventures of Superman digital comic featuring the classic costume. Coincidence?

True. It does make you wonder how much of the Lawsuit factors into the last few years with Superman.

Just look at all the straps and panels on Tim Drake's costume. He looks like an action figure made to promote a Joel Schumacher Batman film.

Compare that to his old costume...

Whatever happened to the beauty of simplicity?   

[The Dark Knight]

I liked the Court of Owls storyline a lot. It's probably my favourite New 52 Batman story to date. And you're right about it making a great movie. With DC Entertainment adapting many of its most recent films from the New 52 canon, there's a good chance they might adapt that one too. I'm hoping they'll adapt Gotham by Gaslight first, but the Court of Owls is definitely on my wish list.

I read about people not liking City of Owls that much. I concede Court of Owls is the better tale. Batman in the labyrinth and the general mystery around the court really make it something special. But the follow-up is of the same quality, for me. The attack on Wayne Manor is incredibly filmic, and the Court are still portrayed as completely fearsome. Batman entering the cave via the chimney, and putting on that massive mech suit equals a lot of fun. The Thomas Wayne Jr thing I can swallow, because there's enough ambiguity on either side for the reader to make a judgement. It plays into Bruce from book one, trying to convince himself of something but ultimately having the wrong viewpoint all along. The saga is described as the modern 'breaking of the Bat', and I'd agree. Nothing has really come close to this in recent times. Great art, good writing and everything Batman should be.

[The Joker]

Well, Superman Doomed issue #2 is out today, and lo and behold, we evidently have our first teaser for the "Blood Moon" two month Band-Aid event.



And a CAPTIONED version posted for good measure that takes an educated guess on exactly what we're looking at.

[Silver Nemesis]

Pre-New 52 Superman? Make it so!

Seriously, it's nice to finally hear something concrete about this. Let's hope they don't screw it up.