Facebook
twitter

Author Topic: The Killing Joke  (Read 5878 times)

Offline Slash Man

  • Side-Kick
  • *
  • Forum posts: 427
    • View Profile
Re: The Killing Joke
« Reply #20 on: Mon, 8 Aug 2016, 20:52 »
Yeah, the "official" meaning has been debunked many times, but again, that shouldn't stop a good theory - one that makes sense in the context of the story, and isn't a stretch. The main takeaway was that the Joker failed on turning Gordon; that much we can see by how he wants Joker to be taken in by the book. But perhaps the Joker's torture inflicted on Gordon had a secondary effect on Batman that prompted him to cross a line... Meanwhile, Batman has Joker alone and cornered, who willingly admits he refuses to be "cured." The other ending is more than plausible.

What's everyone's views on the different colorings? I have the Deluxe Edition because it's the most easily available, but I do prefer the original (though Bolland's new coloring seamlessly updates the art and makes it look like a modern comic). You'd think that with Bolland doing the coloring this time around it would be definitive, but it seems to clash with his original intention, as evident by the yellow oval around the Bat-symbol being erased.
« Last Edit: Wed, 10 Aug 2016, 00:56 by Slash Man »

Offline thecolorsblend

  • Contributor
  • Winged Avenger
  • ***
  • Forum posts: 2,167
  • Image uploads: 18
  • calmer than you are
    • View Profile
Re: The Killing Joke
« Reply #21 on: Tue, 9 Aug 2016, 18:05 »
the yellow oval around the Bat-symbol being erased.
Unforgivable.

Offline Azrael

  • Staff
  • Dark Detective
  • *****
  • Forum posts: 1,612
  • Image uploads: 1,620
  • fledermaus
    • View Profile
Re: The Killing Joke
« Reply #22 on: Wed, 10 Aug 2016, 01:00 »
What's everyone's views on the different colorings? I have the Deluxe Edition because it's the most easily available, but I do prefer the original (though Bolland's new coloring seamlessly updates the art and makes it look like a modern comic). You'd think that with Bolland doing the coloring this time around it would be definitive, but it seems to clash with his original intention, as evident by the yellow oval around the Bat-symbol being erased.

I like the original

Offline The Laughing Fish

  • Dark Detective
  • ***
  • Forum posts: 1,855
  • Image uploads: 17
  • "But the fish share my unique face!"
    • View Profile
Re: The Killing Joke
« Reply #23 on: Wed, 7 Dec 2016, 05:47 »
Earlier this year, there was a big backlash over a variant front cover for a Batgirl comic because it featured the Joker smearing a bloody smile over Batgirl's face. What was obviously a homage to The Killing Joke, critics (mainly feminists and social justice warriors) took issue with it because they claimed it was misogynistic.



Source: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/mar/17/dc-comics-pull-batgirl-joker-cover-after-protests

Turns out the cover wasn't approved to publish by the editor (or maybe he said that to save face from the backlash), and the cover was described as especially distasteful because it was made for a special edition issue for Batgirl.

While I can understand that paying a homage to a story featuring Batgirl's darkest hour on the character's own comic book was quite dumb, I have an issue with the way people have reacted to this cover. For instance, Mark Waid had apparently blocked someone on Twitter because the person in question had the cover as his wallpaper. Basically, Waid is implying the guy he had blocked is sexist.

https://twitter.com/MarkWaid/status/591241805351374848

Frankly, I find this reaction by Waid, and many others who share his opinion, to be over the top. Yeah, Joker shooting and torturing Barbara is horrible and uneasy to digest, but does that mean someone who likes The Killing Joke as a story is a misogynist? Because that's the message I'm getting. If someone, for example, liked A Clockwork Orange or Se7en and has posters of both films on their wall, does that make them a nihilistic psychopath who enjoys taking their anger out on men and women? Do the creators themselves agree with the mindset of the perpetrator committing the crime in the story they're telling? I don't think so, as you can see by Alan Moore's feedback of his own comic.

Where exactly do you draw the line when it comes to applying morals in fiction anyway? I say if you're going to start kicking up a fuss about what's "right and wrong", how about we apply the same standard to everything else and stop glorifying violence altogether? How about we stop talking about what an awesome villain the Joker is because he promotes psychopathy and murder (then again, I'm tempted in favour of this if people will finally shut up about TDK's Joker, hehe), or stop our obsession over Batman because he is a vigilante maniac who enjoys kicking the sh*t out villains? I used to be sympathetic towards censorship, but nowadays, EVERYTHING seems to be offensive. And usually, those who are "offended" tend to be hypocrites anyway.

Bloody hell.


Quote
Jonathan Nolan: He [Batman] has this one rule, as the Joker says in The Dark Knight. But he does wind up breaking it. Does he break it in the third film?

Christopher Nolan: He breaks it in...

Jonathan Nolan: ...the first two.

Source: http://books.google.com.au/books?id=uwV8rddtKRgC&pg=PR8&dq=But+he+does+wind+up+breaking+it.&hl=en&sa=X&ei

Offline The Dark Knight

  • Contributor
  • Dark Knight
  • ***
  • Forum posts: 5,251
  • Image uploads: 146
  • Gotham Demon
    • View Profile
Re: The Killing Joke
« Reply #24 on: Wed, 7 Dec 2016, 06:06 »
For creators of mainstream entertainment (movies, music and comics) to slander broad segments of their fan base with defamatory and unfounded tags is just baffling. It doesn't make any sense to me. Are they in the business of being profitable? Where do these people get off? Thankfully though, people are waking up to these games and are thinking for themselves. And speaking out about it. If the words racist, homophobic, sexist and misogynist were removed from the English language, these SJWs would literally be speechless. It's all they have. Let's just enjoy entertainment on our own terms for crying out loud.
« Last Edit: Wed, 7 Dec 2016, 06:09 by The Dark Knight »

Offline The Laughing Fish

  • Dark Detective
  • ***
  • Forum posts: 1,855
  • Image uploads: 17
  • "But the fish share my unique face!"
    • View Profile
Re: The Killing Joke
« Reply #25 on: Wed, 7 Dec 2016, 06:35 »
Off-topic: nothing surprises me anymore. If 2016 has taught me anything, it is to be suspicious of people's agendas. As cynical as this will sound, the "moral compass" comes across as fake outrage just so most people can feel good about themselves.

I read a blog where a BvS fan tore apart a YouTube critic's negative review of BvS, and one of the points why the critic hated the film was because it demonstrated "toxic masculinity" during the Batman vs Superman fight scene. Why? Because of Batman's "you're not brave. Men are brave" line. Because men are diabolical in nature, and anything referring to men is sexist against women, right?

It turned out that critic is a massive SJW who is a "philosophy" graduate student. Education standards must be really low nowadays.


Quote
Jonathan Nolan: He [Batman] has this one rule, as the Joker says in The Dark Knight. But he does wind up breaking it. Does he break it in the third film?

Christopher Nolan: He breaks it in...

Jonathan Nolan: ...the first two.

Source: http://books.google.com.au/books?id=uwV8rddtKRgC&pg=PR8&dq=But+he+does+wind+up+breaking+it.&hl=en&sa=X&ei

Offline thecolorsblend

  • Contributor
  • Winged Avenger
  • ***
  • Forum posts: 2,167
  • Image uploads: 18
  • calmer than you are
    • View Profile
Re: The Killing Joke
« Reply #26 on: Wed, 7 Dec 2016, 10:19 »
Earlier this year, there was a big backlash over a variant front cover for a Batgirl comic because it featured the Joker smearing a bloody smile over Batgirl's face. What was obviously a homage to The Killing Joke, critics (mainly feminists and social justice warriors) took issue with it because they claimed it was misogynistic.
I'm trying to figure out how anything can be called "misogynistic" or "sexist" anymore. We keep being told that one's sex "gender" is a social construct. Frankly I don't buy that because most of us are born either with a male's internal plumbing or a female's internal plumbing. But whatever, #1 it's all supposed to be in our minds and #2 we're all equal so it shouldn't matter anyway.

Okay, fair enough.

If those are the premises from which we're all supposed to begin, how can anything be "misogynistic"? The Joker would presumably treat a man the same way he is a woman. If the egalitarianism that's been shoved down our throats is coherent and logical, surely violence towards women is no more and no less objectionable than violence towards men, right? If women are equal to (which seems to mean "the same as") men, why is the depiction of violence against them a negative?

And if the depiction of violence itself is negative, well, let's enforce that equally. Trust me, entertainment media will all fold overnight if we did.

Mind you, I love (and am borderline obsessed with) Mark Waid's work but as a person he's completely FOS so there's a lot to be said for ignoring his public statements, the ninny.

Offline thecolorsblend

  • Contributor
  • Winged Avenger
  • ***
  • Forum posts: 2,167
  • Image uploads: 18
  • calmer than you are
    • View Profile
Re: The Killing Joke
« Reply #27 on: Wed, 7 Dec 2016, 10:21 »
I read a blog where a BvS fan tore apart a YouTube critic's negative review of BvS, and one of the points why the critic hated the film was because it demonstrated "toxic masculinity" during the Batman vs Superman fight scene. Why? Because of Batman's "you're not brave. Men are brave" line. Because men are diabolical in nature, and anything referring to men is sexist against women, right?

It turned out that critic is a massive SJW who is a "philosophy" graduate student. Education standards must be really low nowadays.

Offline The Laughing Fish

  • Dark Detective
  • ***
  • Forum posts: 1,855
  • Image uploads: 17
  • "But the fish share my unique face!"
    • View Profile
Re: The Killing Joke
« Reply #28 on: Sun, 19 Mar 2017, 07:50 »
I love (and am borderline obsessed with) Mark Waid's work but as a person he's completely FOS so there's a lot to be said for ignoring his public statements, the ninny.

You're not going to like what I'm going to say, but after reading more of Waid's opinions on Twitter, I've decided that I'm going to boycott his work from now on.

I've always followed the principle in separating the person from their art, but Waid's conduct is quite despicable and really soured his name for me. I never thought this could ever happen, but his attitude too off-putting. I can't respect anyone who instantly labels somebody a bigot just because they share a different opinion.

Not to mention the fact the idiot declared that all superheroes are SJWs, as if he's saying if you don't agree with his political views, you're a bigot. That, and the fact that he still complains about MOS mainly because Superman kills a genocidal maniac as if Clark's moral compass is broken. And yet, Waid regards TDK as one of the best films he's ever seen despite Batman spends the entire time refusing to kill a maniac - only to kill another in the last five minutes.

No Mark, if there's anybody whose moral compass is broken, it's yours.


Quote
Jonathan Nolan: He [Batman] has this one rule, as the Joker says in The Dark Knight. But he does wind up breaking it. Does he break it in the third film?

Christopher Nolan: He breaks it in...

Jonathan Nolan: ...the first two.

Source: http://books.google.com.au/books?id=uwV8rddtKRgC&pg=PR8&dq=But+he+does+wind+up+breaking+it.&hl=en&sa=X&ei

 

    
Not a member? Click here to register now!
Latest Forum Post
Re: Justice League Promotion
by The Laughing Fish
Total Members: 666 | Total Posts: 47,107 | Total Topics: 3,073

SMF 2.0.13 | SMF © 2016, Simple Machines
Simple Audio Video Embedder
| Design based on the Reference theme by Crip XHTML RSS WAP2 iPhone Theme Scrolling News Ticker by Mioplanet
"BATMAN" all related characters indicia are copyrighted by D.C. COMICS, a TIME-WARNER company. Batman created by Bob Kane and Bill Finger.
All features, articles and blogs are © of Batman-Online.com's staff & members (unless otherwise indicated) and may NOT be copied without the author's permission. All artwork is © of respective owners.
This is NOT an official Batman website. Conceived, designed and edited by Paul Rodgers since 1st June 2002. Facebook and twitter feeds maintained by Rick Francis and Azrael.