Young Jack Napier's sidekick

[thecolorsblend]

I would say that's true in a way some people may not be completely comfortable with. My argument is that without Reeve and the Williams music, those movies are actually fairly meh. They have good points, to be sure, but the scripts generally have problems, there are issues with clashing tones (Donner could be very inconsistent in that area, in spite of his hype to the contrary), an aggravating and unattractive female lead and probably other stuff too but somehow Reeve and the Williams music make it all go away.

I think that Superman can be equaled. I don't even think it's all that hard to do. Superman's generally not a hard character to get right. One major gripe I've had about Superman for the past ten'ish years is how the Donner/Reeve stuff has come to exert a really inappropriate amount of influence over the mythos. Rather than being an adaptation of the mythos, those movies have begun defining the mythos. And I don't like that. However much it may have served his purpose, Donner took a massive dump on a lot of the canon that he wasn't hip to. People can argue the merits and execution of his myriad deletions/additions but nobody can argue the facts of them.

Bottom line? I'm happy we're getting something new. It's way past time we did.

[Paul (ral)]

It is best to view the Donner cut of S2 as a collection of deleted scenes and what ifs.

The best cut of S2 lies somewhere between Lester and Donner.

The time reversal scene in the Donner cut was used merely because it was the intended ending for S2 that ended up getting used for STM instead. A cop out to use it for the cut but then again there is no other alternative for the cut especially if they wanted to show the deleted scenes of Perry brushing his teeth and "coming round" in the Daily Planet office.

My best ending for S2? Lester but cut before Lois' memory loss. End it on a kiss with Lois knowing Supes is Clark.

[Paul (ral)]

On btw, I don't like Lesters slapstick in the Metropolis battle...but the editing and score in the Donner cut is a mess.

[thecolorsblend]

On btw, I don't like Lesters slapstick in the Metropolis battle...but the editing and score in the Donner cut is a mess.

I'm not fond of parts of the battle. Clark grew up in the country. How much would you like to bet he knows how to roll with Zod? Y'know, old fashioned John Wayne fisticuffs and stuff. Because of that, all the sissy-la-la kicking and stuff is aggravating.

[Bobthegoon89]

It is best to view the Donner cut of S2 as a collection of deleted scenes and what ifs.

The best cut of S2 lies somewhere between Lester and Donner.

The time reversal scene in the Donner cut was used merely because it was the intended ending for S2 that ended up getting used for STM instead. A cop out to use it for the cut but then again there is no other alternative for the cut especially if they wanted to show the deleted scenes of Perry brushing his teeth and "coming round" in the Daily Planet office.

My best ending for S2? Lester but cut before Lois' memory loss. End it on a kiss with Lois knowing Supes is Clark.

There is just one thing from the end of Donner's cut I truly wish was in the actual movie: the shot of the 3 villains being sucked back into the Phantom Zone again. A great triumphant moment (although slightly dodgy effect) and a bit amusing too. In a "back to square 1" kinda way.

I kinda like the Metropolis citizens reactions to the big fight between Superman and the villains. It gave the city a kind of character for me. Some stuff was too comedic but I felt it brought the city into the finale and what their saying might be how people would react to the kind of bizaare action going on lol

[Bobthegoon89]

On btw, I don't like Lesters slapstick in the Metropolis battle...but the editing and score in the Donner cut is a mess.

I'm not fond of parts of the battle. Clark grew up in the country. How much would you like to bet he knows how to roll with Zod? Y'know, old fashioned John Wayne fisticuffs and stuff. Because of that, all the sissy-la-la kicking and stuff is aggravating.

Hmm I don't know about that. Let's not take his square Kansas background too literally. I think Clark would know how to battle it out. Just like riding a bike. Otherwise he'd be a much more naffer superhero than some comic fans already believe him to be if he didn't know how to swing a punch at least.

I don't think it's a big deal to inject a bit of humour into the action scenes. For me it can add to the fun. There is a light hearted feel to the Superman movies in their earlier days which I think modern fans tend to forget. So long as the humour doesn't mock anything about Superman and I don't think Lester did this in the 2nd movie. Take for instance Zod being hurled into the Coca Cola sign. My favourite moment. Probably in the entire series! Never fails to raise a smile. Also it's quite possibly the biggest, most blatant product placement scene in movie history lol

I noticed in Donner's he changed the music structure, sound effects, pacing and cut a lot of the crowd reactions to make the battle more intense and perhaps darker. Nice attempt but ultimately I think this ruined the scene and made it less fun. One of my favourite music cues in Lester's is when Superman freezes the truck with his super breath. It was a less heroic moment with the much calmer music used instead. I hated the new sound effects on the heat vision. Obviously an attempt to make it more realistic sounding. But I thought the more comic book lazer effect sounded cooler.

[Silver Nemesis]

Also it's quite possibly the biggest, most blatant product placement scene in movie history lol

What about the legendary Cheerios scene from the first film?



Perhaps they deleted it because it was too subtle.

Personally, I think the extended special edition of Superman: The Movie is by far the greatest comic book/superhero movie ever made. I also slightly prefer the Donner Cut of Superman II over the Lester version, though at the end of the day I love both versions. Chacun à son goût.

[Slash Man]

I believe it is Bob.

However I have a magazine interview from 1989 with Michael Uslan who says it is Joe Chill.

Here I was about to make another thread on the subject, but I found the answer in the first post of this thread.

I looked further into it, and here's the proof:

It's funny how some of the most-discussed diversions from the comics actually came from Bob Kane himself. This article infers that Bob was the one who encouraged the change from Sam Hamm's script based on hindsight with the comics. The all black armor was also also the intended appearance, but we know how that didn't translate well in the comics.

Anyways, I was personally surprised to find that this wasn't Bob. His connection with Jack seemed to confirm that they committed petty crimes together in their younger years. And there was no indication of Joe Chill being a character otherwise.

But when you consider the script rewrites, it makes sense. Originally, it was just Joe Chill - a seemingly inconsequential thug who happens to completely change Bruce Wayne's outlook on life. But then a young Jack was added in, and they simply kept Joe in there as a partner. Personally, I like the contrast: Chill is a desperate thug, but Napier is truly evil.

[Edd Grayson]

It wasn't him who killed the Waynes in the film, it was Jack. However, don't you think Jack would've shot Bruce if his partner hadn't called him?

[Slash Man]

He cocked the hammer back and lowered it to Bruce, I think he intended to eliminate all the witnesses. We're supposed to believe that he says his trademarked phrase only when he kills someone. So technically, that's two times Bruce cheated death from Jack.