15 years of Batman and Robin

[Dagenspear]

Despite what some may say, this isn't a bad movie. It's not perfect by any means or great, but it's solid. Over the top, with ridiculous stuff is a good way to describe it. It's fits well with the Burton movies there and that's not an insult. This movie has some great personal moments that are some of the best of Batman movies in general. I can honestly say I'd want to see what a more serious version of this movie would be, but I like what we got. I used have this pad or something that had Mr. Freeze's lines from the movie in it, like, "Tonight's forecast: A freeze is coming!" The puns are great and this movie is awesome to me. Have a very great day!

God bless you all!

[thecolorsblend]

I can honestly say I'd want to see what a more serious version of this movie would be

I wouldn't. To me, the over-the-top elements are what MAKE the movie. Toning that stuff down is a lot like removing the Silver Age elements from All-Star Superman. I mean, yeah. I guess you could do it. But that doesn't make the doing of it a good idea.

[Dagenspear]

I wouldn't. To me, the over-the-top elements are what MAKE the movie. Toning that stuff down is a lot like removing the Silver Age elements from All-Star Superman. I mean, yeah. I guess you could do it. But that doesn't make the doing of it a good idea.

The movie wouldn't be exactly the same, I'd think. No puns, more attuned to the B89/BR/slightly BF aesthetic. It'd be like having BF have Robin Williams and Billy Dee Williams instead of Jim Carrey and Tommy Lee Jones. That would obviously be very different than the BF we got, which I also wouldn't mind. Like Patrick Stewart as Mr. Freeze and Gillian Anderson or something like that as Poison Ivy. It's be kinda neat.

[The Dark Knight]

Despite what some may say, this isn't a bad movie. It's not perfect by any means or great, but it's solid. Over the top, with ridiculous stuff is a good way to describe it. It's fits well with the Burton movies there and that's not an insult. This movie has some great personal moments that are some of the best of Batman movies in general.

I can agree with that. I can't imagine Keaton's Batman starring in this, but regardless, the themes that began in BR, and continued in BF, came to their fruition in B&R. It's not my favorite film by any stretch but it's harmless fun.

[riddler]

I'm glad Batman and Robin exists because it served as an important lesson for comic and films in general.

It became common for 90's sequels to lampoon previous films in their series. It's actually  surprising that Burton fans seem to respect the Schumacher films more than the Nolan fans since it could be argued that Schumacher spoofed the Burton films. That being said I agree plotwise it does follow just fine. Schumacher respected Burton's continuity as evident by the fact that he easily could have recast Pat Hingle and Michael Gough claiming their characters would need new actors with the new Batman. He didn't try and reinvent any aspect Burton established, only modifications and you can't possibly consider Chase Meridian's quip about a whip and skin tight vinyl as anything else but a reference to Catwoman. We can live in a world of hypotheticals all we like and wonder what would have happened if Burton and Keaton stayed on or if WB didn't interfere and make everything 'toyetic' but the bottom line is in the world we live in, Burton, Elfman and Keaton gave us two films before Schumacher took over and that's that. Here are things I appreciate about this film:
-A very underrated line is the foreshadowing by Alfred "do bring this one back in one piece sir" at the beginning. This ends up being the only film in the series in which no bat-vehicles are destroyed (the Batwing in the first film, batmobiles in the second film, and all three bat vehicles we see in the third film.
-the lighter tone does fit the character's progression if you consider the deleted scenes from the previous film as canon. Bruce finds his fathers last entry and realizes their death was not his fault- all along he believed that they were on the way to see Zorro at Bruce's insistence while the entry indicates they were putting Zorro off until the next week. Also I do agree with George Clooney that Bruce Wayne isn't the only person to suffer loss and tragedy and that he can't keep sulking about it forever especially when he's warding a youth who went through the same thing (even worse Dick lost a sibling as well)
--thematically speaking they handled the frozen Gotham part well. This movie actually has one of my favourite teaser posters of all time (the frozen Bat logo).
-this was definitely the biggest role Alfred had in any bat film and so it remains a nice send off with Michael Gough. For those who hate the silliness of the film, the only silly lines Alfred gives are in the opening and closing lines ("I'll cancel the pizzas sir" and "we're going to need a bigger cave").
-While Clooney wasn't exactly trying while he was wearing the cowl, he was an excellent Bruce Wayne. I think he would have done better acting like a ditzy playboy than Christian Bale did. I think this film would have been better if they showcased more of Bruce Wayne. Clooney was also excellent when paired with Gough.
-from the 1966 batman film through to Batman v Superman this is the only bat film in which there is no damsel in distress. I understand why superhero films put the heroe's loved ones in peril but it does make them come across as selfish. The Nolan series especially is guilty of this, every time there was danger Bruce always chose those he had personal relationships over Gotham which is why I don't believe that Batman was the hero Gotham deserved.
-another clichee omitted was the villains or supporting characters finding out Batman's true identify. The only character who find out Bruce Wayne is Batman through the events of the film is Barbara Gordon. In the first 3 films, every single love interest and villain learns Batman's secret. Julie Madison remains the only live action love interest for Bruce or Batman who never learns. Again compare that to the Dark Knight Rises where everyone and their grandmother learns who Batman is. To be fair though I'm quite certain despite Batman removing his mask being an important plot point, not a single character learns his identiy in the Dark Knight
-if you like the Robin character, this and Batman 66 are the only ones he remains present throughout the films.


By the way I don't know if it's been stated but this film turned 20 on June 20th.

[Wayne49]

^^^ That was an excellent post Riddler. You know when the 20th anniversary hit, everyone of note seem to revert back to the apology stance for this film and I am forever DONE with the herd mentality that seems to cultivate those connected to this film. It's like they are required to hate it when in fact they don't seem to want to, outside of Clooney and Schumacher. Even Joel seems pretty ambivalent if you listen to his commentary on the Blu Ray.

For all of the over correction that occurred as a result of this film, it can safely be said that now it has gone too far the other way. Even though BVS made a huge chunk of money from it's extremely front loaded opening weekend, that film actually had bigger drops after the opening weekend and left theaters quicker than B&R. It's now become equally as campy for Batman to be TOO SERIOUS with Affleck overacting in the cowl and creating his own mark of shame on the franchise. Martha anyone?

So when people point to this film as the commercial shame of the series, it's actually BVS that carries that crown now. And with Justice League being officially "tweaked" to lighten Snyder's overstated seriousness, one has to wonder if the pendulum is now pushing back towards the more lighthearted treatment. Do we need to look any further than Spider-man Homecoming to reinforce that suggestion? 

In short I think there will always be a time and place for a lighter and brighter version of our heroes. It doesn't make them flawed so much as a reflection that the public is tired of our heroes being depressed and otherwise uninteresting. After all these are masked and costumed vigilantes. Exactly how serious do we need to take them without remembering their ultimate purpose is to touch the child in all of us? B&R does a fine job of addressing that idea.

[thecolorsblend]

-A very underrated line is the foreshadowing by Alfred "do bring this one back in one piece sir" at the beginning. This ends up being the only film in the series in which no bat-vehicles are destroyed (the Batwing in the first film, batmobiles in the second film, and all three bat vehicles we see in the third film.

Don't the Batmobile and Robin and Batgirl's ice vehicles get destroyed? Been a while since I've seen this.

Also, this is the only Batman movie there's ever been where it's obvious that Batman never killed anybody, either deliberately or accidentally.

I can't see anybody but Keaton in Burton's movies. Nobody but Kilmer in BF. And honestly, nobody but Clooney in B&R. His Batman and Bruce are both perfect for the tone of B&R. The movie itself is, in retrospect, a worthy ending to the original franchise. Clearly this is a Batman who won't likely ever retire so it makes sense to lighten the tone as things go. I don't begrudge Nolan for his view that Batman is strictly a temporary gig for Bruce. And I don't mind Schumacher steering the eternal Batman in a lighter direction. And I love Snyder taking the eternal Batman in a very dark direction.

I like them all and love some of them.

[The Dark Knight]

It's three things time.

1. Freeze blasts the Batmobile with his cannon, but it's repaired in the following scene.

2. This scene feels more relevant today than in 1997.



3. The "will you help me?" scene in the batcave is fantastic.

[The Laughing Fish]

For all of the over correction that occurred as a result of this film, it can safely be said that now it has gone too far the other way. Even though BVS made a huge chunk of money from it's extremely front loaded opening weekend, that film actually had bigger drops after the opening weekend and left theaters quicker than B&R. It's now become equally as campy for Batman to be TOO SERIOUS with Affleck overacting in the cowl and creating his own mark of shame on the franchise. Martha anyone?

Still on about that rubbish? Affleck is not any more laughable or campy than Bale's overacting with that idiotic voice, and speaking in grandiose terms about his moral code, only to get people killed anyway. Or betraying everything he stood for to protect a criminal. Come on now!

Mark of shame, my ass.  If you still think Batman and Superman stopped their dispute because their mothers share the same name...well, I don't know what to tell you.

[Dagenspear]

Still on about that rubbish? Affleck is not any more laughable or campy than Bale's overacting with that idiotic voice, and speaking in grandiose terms about his moral code, only to get people killed anyway. Or betraying everything he stood for to protect a criminal. Come on now!

Mark of shame, my ass.  If you still think Batman and Superman stopped their dispute because their mothers share the same name...well, I don't know what to tell you.

Still better than Batman betraying everything he stands for by trying to murder another hero and never facing any consequences for it.

We all get it. Bruce saw him as a person because by their moms having the same name, he saw himself as the monster, etc. etc.. It's all still because their mom's have the same name though. Otherwise Bruce would have murdered Clark right there. That's a problem. Have a very great day!

God bless you all!