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Ohh, boy, what a show! I remember watching this every Thursday night in my Flash pajamas. I even had a couple of shirts that The Flash on them. I had them all taped and I was pleasantly suprised when they arrived on DVD. The only thing I hate is that there isn't a big fan base out there for the series and I rarely meet a person who has seen the show.

I saw the pilot and "Revenge of the Trickster".

The pilot was released as a straight to video here.  I have the rental VHS.

I loved it as a kid, although I haven't seen it in years.

My brother has the enitre series on bootleg DVD.

got the series on dvd, one of the best tv series ever made.

I love The Flash TV series, IMO its still the best DC adapted character that had a  SERIOUS television series, it had the true heart of the character. I remember being a kid and looking so forward to watching it when it would come on, and the Elfman theme made it even better!

Im looking forward to christmas to get the full box set!

Bray said it best, "my inner 13 year old loves it".  For me though, reviewing it at any level above that just reveals the show's myriad weaknesses and defenciencies.  I think it would've been better suited going with a fun, lighthearted sci-fi angle (much like the comics themselves) as opposed to a loose noir atmosphere with minor fantasy and cop-drama elements.  Strange to think that you could do a show like that relatively cheaply nowadays but back then it cost a freaking fortune (which is probably why it got canned).

Ill always love it, to me its pretty timeless alot in the way '89 is!

In light of discovering that the entire series of the short-lived television show is now online, I wanted to share it with all of you who remembered it and to give it exposure to those who have never seen it. Here?s the link where you can watch the episodes:

http://www.joost.com/175o8ny/t/The-Flash-Classic-WB-TV

After watching, come back and share your thoughts on the episodes. Enjoy!

I absolutely love this show, with the foam looking suit, Elfmans theme and Hamills Trickster, I cant wait to someday buy the whole set!

I always thought that the suit was made out of felt. I'm sure it was devised instead of rubber so that Shipp could actually run in it.

YES! Thanks, man.

I merged an existing Flash series topic with the new one Darrell, hope you don't mind.

No problem, ral. "I forgot I had it."  ;D
When the series first aired, I had my parents tape every episode after the pilot aired. The only I think we missed was "Double Vision." That one was a real suprise for me to see when it came out on DVD. They spanded out on three tapes, but I think that there was a rouge fourth tape that had the episodes "Captain Cold" and "Fast Foward." Again, they were a real joy to see again once I got the DVD set. Before the set came out, I had also aquired the VHS releases Warners put out for the pilot and one where they cut together The Trickster episodes as a movie. One thing I noticed about The Trickster VHS was that the entire movie was sourced from a film print and the effects blended together perfectly. On my tapes and DVDs, the effects scenes had a film-texture to it while the rest looked like video. Also, the title sequence, sourced from video, didn't transfer all that well to film. There was also a third one that combined the episodes with The Nightshade. I REALLY wanted to get my hands on that one, but it was only released outside the U.S. I wanted it, because the begining of the episode "Ghost in the Machine" was partially taped over. I also wanted to see it because I wanted to see more of the actress who played Young Belle in the episode. She's quite a looker! Judge for yourself in the aftermentioned episode!

Deadly Nightshade was released as a video over here

Did you ever manage to see it, ral?

I remember when the feature-length pilot was released on VHS back in the early 90s, and I instantly thought it was a new Batman-like movie. Well, I'm not in the US or the UK so the show came out on video before reaching the tube, and I remember enjoying it because it felt so much like Batman - thanks in large part to the costume and the music.

Of course through the years one clearly sees the artistic merit (or lack of artistic merit) of the things they enjoyed as children, but this show is worth mentioning in any comic-to-film discussion, it is so much better than many live action comics of the 90s anyway. It has entertainment value, Shipp is so much likeable as the title character, and (more importantly) features Mark Hammill's unofficial debut as the Joker!

Quote from: Darrell Kaiser on Wed, 17 Jun  2009, 10:09
Did you ever manage to see it, ral?

I missed this one!

yeah i saw it back in the day - liked it a lot - more so than the trickster movie.  I must watch it again.

Quote from: Darrell Kaiser on Tue, 16 Jun  2009, 07:49I always thought that the suit was made out of felt. I'm sure it was devised instead of rubber so that Shipp could actually run in it.

A move that never made sense to me.  Felt, foam or rubber, none make sense for the Flash.  If any hero should be running around in spandex, it should be the Flash.

Just like in the JLA 1997 pilot?

He's got you there! I think they just wanted a crimson look to it. Spandex wouldn't do that color much justice and it made it more defined.

If it's a choice between an "imperfect red" spandex and the abominable nastiness that is John Wesley Shipp's Flash... well, it's an easy choice.

I'm currently rewatching this show and I've been struck by several things. Firstly, just how good it is. And secondly, how certain plot elements influenced later shows like Lois & Clark and Batman: The Animated Series (for example, the first Nightshade episode seems to have influenced 'The Grey Ghost' episode of B:TAS).

It's also interesting to note how the pilot episode references the first Burton Batman film. Shipp's costume has obvious similarities with Keaton's.

(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi396.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp42%2Fsilver-nemsis%2Fshippkeaton.jpg&hash=bcab35dcaf9185c76d72c0698460ca88bbaac8ca)

Danny Elfman wrote the theme music for both heroes.

They each have a "you made me" conversation between the hero and villain during the finale.

The scene where the lightning bolt strikes in front of the moon to create the Flash logo is clearly influenced by the Batwing scene.

(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi396.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp42%2Fsilver-nemsis%2Femblemmoon.jpg&hash=b8bb1fa6503db4098eabb5dac11ae7f8637945ab)

And then in the episode 'Child's Play' Barry walks past a cinema that's showing a double bill of Superman (1978) and Batman (1989). As he walks past the entrance, the music briefly morphs into the Elfman Batman theme.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_p1SH-fuIzQ#t=04m21s

In spite of this scene, I still like to think of The Flash as taking place in the same universe as Burton's Batman films. I also think Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman takes place in this universe; as evidenced by the numerous references to Batman and Gotham City, as well as the appearance of the Burton Batmobile in the Season 3 episode 'Don't Tug on Superman's Cape'. Between these three franchises, Warner Bros had a pretty good live-action DC universe going in the early 90s. It's a shame they didn't capitalise upon it with a JLA movie.

I always liked the Flash TV-series, its similarities to the first Burton film were so obvious that even as a kid I caught on them. Mark Hammill as the Trickster was practically the Joker (and he was a pretty lethal villain if I remember right, he was ready to kill with a chainsaw in one episode before the Flash intervenes). However, I never thought of them in "Universe" terms. Maybe it's because I'm pretty Batman-centric when it comes to DC Comics, and I think that the "Batman" concept, at least in live action, "works" better when there are no superpowered characters in the universe he inhabits, maybe only a few fantasy elements here and there, a toxic bath that can give a permanent smile, magic users like Ra's Al Ghul, a little weird science like Manbat, but not a whole "universe" of costumed superpowered characters. Also, Lois & Clark was good (a friend was a big fan of the show, mainly because of Teri Hatcher), but it had the ailment of most 90s hero/action/fantasy shows, it felt very "TV" (including the pretty pedestrian musical score), I don't think it had the "epic" feeling a definitive take on Superman needs.

I'm currently rewatching this show and I spotted another Batman reference in the episode 'Child's Play'. Right before the scene where Barry walks his dog past a theatre showing Batman 89, he mentions "the Arkham exposé" to Tina. I never noticed this reference before now.

I also found some cool footage of the tie-in game for the Nintendo Game Boy.


And here's some interesting footage of an unreleased Flash game.


If DC is reluctant to establish their superheroes in individual movies, they could always give them video games like this instead. That could help raise the characters' profiles in time for the JLA film.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun, 25 Mar  2012, 21:09I'm currently rewatching this show and I've been struck by several things. Firstly, just how good it is. And secondly, how certain plot elements influenced later shows like Lois & Clark and Batman: The Animated Series (for example, the first Nightshade episode seems to have influenced 'The Grey Ghost' episode of B:TAS).

I'll go a step further and suggest (the movie posters thing with Barry aside) the Flash TV show, Lois & Clark and Batman Forever/& Robin are (or could be) all part of a shared universe.

I loved this show. I think the final episode with the Trickster was the best of the series, which is a shame that they didn't continue for a second season because I heard somewhere Flash's rogue gallery would have joined together and plot their revenge.

Is it just me, or did Trickster's sidekick Prank inspired Paul Dini and Bruce Timm to create Harley Quinn?

(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.comicbookbin.com%2Fartman2%2Fuploads%2F9%2Ftvflashep2105.jpg&hash=7c1d064440f63b82aa4578b5b38333c108f87ef6)

QuoteI'll go a step further and suggest (the movie posters thing with Barry aside) the Flash TV show, Lois & Clark and Batman Forever/& Robin are (or could be) all part of a shared universe.

I agree, although I'd also include the Burton movies in the shared universe. I see strong parallels between The Flash and the first Burton Batman film. Less so with Batman Returns, but definitely with the first film. Batman 89 and The Flash both did a decent job of creating artificial cities using limited resources. Gotham and Central City both seemed real to me. And while one was clearly darker than the other, I still felt they could exist in the same universe.

For instance, the Central City police station has an art deco look that wouldn't appear out of place in Burton's Gotham.


Then there are the wall paintings featured prominently in the TV show. The apartment sets in Batman featured walls dominated with sinister looking murals.


The makers of The Flash included similar murals on many of the show's sets. From this we can see how the show was influenced by the movie's art direction and production design.


Then there's the overall tone of Batman 89 and The Flash. Both were mostly serious, realistic portrayals of their respective source materials, interspersed with occasional moments of humour and fancy. They both struck a good balance between realism and fantasy without going too far in either direction. Batman was clearly darker, but then Gotham was meant to be an exceptionally corrupt and crime ridden city. Central City in The Flash is a safer place with a more West Coast vibe to it; a San Francisco to Gotham's New York. But both, in my opinion, could easily exist within the same universe.

Then there's the fact that Danny Elfman wrote the themes for both Batman 89 and The Flash, with Shirley Walker also contributing significantly to both projects. And I believe John Wesley Shipp's costume was constructed by the same team who made Keaton's batsuit. There's an obvious visual likeness between the two.


When it comes to Lois and Clark, I see parallels relating to Batman Returns more than the 89 film. While the Gotham in Batman 89 was fairly convincing, the Gotham in the second film is clearly a mixture of sets and matte paintings. It doesn't feel realistic, but manages to exploit its artifice to stylised effect. Likewise, the Metropolis in Lois and Clark is stylised rather than realistic. It has a slight advantage over Burton's Gotham in that the show makers used location footage of Chicago to make it appear larger during the flying scenes. But most of the time you can tell the show was filmed on a studio lot. But while Burton's Gotham was dark, cold and filled with weeping statues, L&C's Metropolis was bright, sunny and filled with trees and parks. The two cities represent the two extremes; dystopia and utopia, yin and yang, one a negative imprint of the other and vice versa. But what they have in common is a contained, artificial and stylised aesthetic.


Another similarity lies in the unusual casting choices for the main hero. For the athletic, muscular 6'2, 210lb Batman, Burton cast the average looking 5'9, 175lb Keaton. And yet it worked. Keaton delivered a subtle and nuanced performance which, with regards to Warner Bros live action film series, has arguably yet to be surpassed. Likewise, Dean Cain was a slightly unusual choice for Superman. On the one hand, he did have the athletic muscular physique of the Superman from the comics (he was a former NFL player). But his facial features were a departure from what most people had grown to expect. Instead of Superman's blue eyes and chiselled, angular features, Cain had brown eyes, roundish features and dark skin tone. At 6'0, he was also slightly shorter than the other Superman actors. But that just made him better suited to team up with Keaton. Burton's Batman would have been dwarfed by the 6'4 Chris Reeve. But standing next to Cain, he wouldn't have looked so small.

I can also easily imagine John Shea's Lex Luthor interacting with the villains from Burton's Batman films. The first season Lex – the suave, powerful billionaire manipulating events from his ivory tower – could be a business rival of Max Shreck.


While the second season Lex – the bloodthirsty psychopath operating from his hidden subterranean lair – could be a potential ally for the Penguin.


But the biggest hint of a shared universe comes from the fact that Batman and Gotham City definitely do exist within the Lois and Clark universe. They're mentioned numerous times throughout the series. And while Batman himself never appears on screen, we do see his Batmobile in the season 3 episode 'Don't Tug on Superman's Cape'. And it's none other than the Furst Batmobile from the Tim Burton films.


Cain's Superman also strikes a brooding pose similar to the classic Batman 89 finale in the season 3 episode 'Double Jeopardy'.


As far as connections between The Flash and Lois and Clark go, S.T.A.R. Labs featured prominently in both shows and Barry mentions Lois Lane in the episode 'Captain Cold'. Also I'm pretty sure The Flash and Lois and Clark were filmed on the same studio lot. Check out the building behind the Flash in this shot. Isn't that the Daily Planet building?


And of course they both have that stylish nineties TV show atmosphere. I've also noticed certain plotlines from The Flash were reused in the first season of Lois and Clark. The L&C episode 'The Foundling' has a lot in common with The Flash episode 'Child's Play', while 'Vatman' is really similar to 'Twin Streaks'.

Of course Schumacher's Batman could also fit in with The Flash and Lois and Clark. Superman and Metropolis are both mentioned in his films. And in some episodes of The Flash Central City looks a bit like Schumacher's Gotham on account of the colourful lighting. But in other episodes it looks dark and gloomy like Burton's Gotham. The tone of the villains also varies from episode to episode. Some of them are goofy and wouldn't seem out of place in a Schumacher movies (e.g. the hippy drug dealers from 'Child's Play' or Hamill's Trickster), but I think most of the villains were darker and more grounded than that. Certainly if you compare the TV version of Captain Cold against Schumacher's Mr Freeze, it's obvious that one of them is a lot darker and more threatening than the other. All in all, I'd say Captain Cold was closer to what Burton's Mr Freeze might have been like than Schumacher's. Similarly I think other Flash villains like Pike, Mirror Master and Deadly Nightshade would fit in better with Burton's vision than his successor's.

I'd say the same thing about Lois and Clark. The first two seasons had a lot of humour in the form of witty repartee and eccentric supporting characters, but the overall result was very faithful to the comics and felt reasonably grounded and dramatic. By contrast, the later seasons – particularly season 4 – veered into high camp and ditched the classic comic rogues of the first two seasons in favour of some really absurd original villains. Seasons one and two would gel better with Burton's Batman, while seasons three and four would work better with Schumacher's. At least that's my perspective on the matter.

Come to think of it, The Flash is sort of like the tonal middle ground between Batman 89 and Batman Forever. It's darker and more serious than Schumacher's film, but not as dark or violent as Burton's. It's a neat compromise between the two.

Great posts. I LOVED The Flash.

When Lois & Clark was airing I thought, or wanted it to be in the same universe as the Batman movies and the Flash series. This was even before the show had references to Batman. I even had a little timeline made up years ago.

I always always ignored the years mentioned in the Flash. With its Superman references Superman had to have appeared before him. Considering hybrid styles of different time periods it works. But even more so the actual comics are always ingoring time references to fit things in a shared continuity, so why not adaptations too. I figured considering L&C was on longer to shift The Flash a few years later. Also the internet was used a lot on that show before it was as widely known about.

The Flash and Lois & Clark were both shot at Warner Bros Studios in Burbank. In almost every episode you can see parts of the backlot used in both shows. Also some parts of Batman Returns, Batman Forever, and Batman & Robin were shot on the same backlot. I took the tour in 2001 and I recognized everything. Its very cool because unlike Universal you are allowed to get of the tour trams. I got a picture in front of the location of the Daily Planet. The Central Police Station is still there but for ER they added a L train track in front of it to look like Chicago. The cool thing is that was when L&C was on. The effects team added a train on it in a background shot in a L&C episode. Which really impressed the people on ER because back than a drama like that had no cgi effects at all. They built the tracks just as something for their characters to walk under.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu, 28 Mar  2013, 14:30

QuoteI'll go a step further and suggest (the movie posters thing with Barry aside) the Flash TV show, Lois & Clark and Batman Forever/& Robin are (or could be) all part of a shared universe.

I agree, although I'd also include the Burton movies in the shared universe. I see strong parallels between The Flash and the first Burton Batman film. Less so with Batman Returns, but definitely with the first film. Batman 89 and The Flash both did a decent job of creating artificial cities using limited resources. Gotham and Central City both seemed real to me. And while one was clearly darker than the other, I still felt they could exist in the same universe.

For instance, the Central City police station has an art deco look that wouldn't appear out of place in Burton's Gotham.

(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi396.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp42%2Fsilver-nemsis%2Fcentralcitypolicestation_zpseee30dc4.jpg&hash=2c234a0e5ba742a2718ab732bcfaaf1a9c8c6109)

Then there are the wall paintings featured prominently in the TV show. The apartment sets in Batman featured walls dominated with sinister looking murals.

(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi396.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp42%2Fsilver-nemsis%2Fbatmanmurals_zps36e5decb.jpg&hash=828a0a13eec5de4f404f4a0074c3a44b87bc3f2b)

The makers of The Flash included similar murals on many of the show's sets. From this we can see how the show was influenced by the movie's art direction and production design.

(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi396.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp42%2Fsilver-nemsis%2Fflashmurals_zpsb27adba2.jpg&hash=8d12a76ded737ce6a42e4a4cb0554227e9238524)

Then there's the overall tone of Batman 89 and The Flash. Both were mostly serious, realistic portrayals of their respective source materials, interspersed with occasional moments of humour and fancy. They both struck a good balance between realism and fantasy without going too far in either direction. Batman was clearly darker, but then Gotham was meant to be an exceptionally corrupt and crime ridden city. Central City in The Flash is a safer place with a more West Coast vibe to it; a San Francisco to Gotham's New York. But both, in my opinion, could easily exist within the same universe.

Then there's the fact that Danny Elfman wrote the themes for both Batman 89 and The Flash, with Shirley Walker also contributing significantly to both projects. And I believe John Wesley Shipp's costume was constructed by the same team who made Keaton's batsuit. There's an obvious visual likeness between the two.

(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi396.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp42%2Fsilver-nemsis%2Fflashbatman_zps00d18fe1.jpg&hash=3adff8f54c48d9a051920692575e1f6af7a02f74)

When it comes to Lois and Clark, I see parallels relating to Batman Returns more than the 89 film. While the Gotham in Batman 89 was fairly convincing, the Gotham in the second film is clearly a mixture of sets and matte paintings. It doesn't feel realistic, but manages to exploit its artifice to stylised effect. Likewise, the Metropolis in Lois and Clark is stylised rather than realistic. It has a slight advantage over Burton's Gotham in that the show makers used location footage of Chicago to make it appear larger during the flying scenes. But most of the time you can tell the show was filmed on a studio lot. But while Burton's Gotham was dark, cold and filled with weeping statues, L&C's Metropolis was bright, sunny and filled with trees and parks. The two cities represent the two extremes; dystopia and utopia, yin and yang, one a negative imprint of the other and vice versa. But what they have in common is a contained, artificial and stylised aesthetic.

(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi396.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp42%2Fsilver-nemsis%2Fmetropolisgotham_zps58bebb22.jpg&hash=6ac3cd3b9e942c49c3ef6825eb481f5b7ceb992b)

Another similarity lies in the unusual casting choices for the main hero. For the athletic, muscular 6'2, 210lb Batman, Burton cast the average looking 5'9, 175lb Keaton. And yet it worked. Keaton delivered a subtle and nuanced performance which, with regards to Warner Bros live action film series, has arguably yet to be surpassed. Likewise, Dean Cain was a slightly unusual choice for Superman. On the one hand, he did have the athletic muscular physique of the Superman from the comics (he was a former NFL player). But his facial features were a departure from what most people had grown to expect. Instead of Superman's blue eyes and chiselled, angular features, Cain had brown eyes, roundish features and dark skin tone. At 6'0, he was also slightly shorter than the other Superman actors. But that just made him better suited to team up with Keaton. Burton's Batman would have been dwarfed by the 6'4 Chris Reeve. But standing next to Cain, he wouldn't have looked so small.

I can also easily imagine John Shea's Lex Luthor interacting with the villains from Burton's Batman films. The first season Lex – the suave, powerful billionaire manipulating events from his ivory tower – could be a business rival of Max Shreck.

(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi396.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp42%2Fsilver-nemsis%2Flexshreck_zps6d745c2e.jpg&hash=bb7d6cac675e2079c1e86e39f2bd1f75adcad4a6)

While the second season Lex – the bloodthirsty psychopath operating from his hidden subterranean lair – could be a potential ally for the Penguin.

(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi396.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp42%2Fsilver-nemsis%2Flexpenguin_zps19b14b2c.jpg&hash=84fe94686ca2610ac9e831e07262c4bc5d13c362)

But the biggest hint of a shared universe comes from the fact that Batman and Gotham City definitely do exist within the Lois and Clark universe. They're mentioned numerous times throughout the series. And while Batman himself never appears on screen, we do see his Batmobile in the season 3 episode 'Don't Tug on Superman's Cape'. And it's none other than the Furst Batmobile from the Tim Burton films.

(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi396.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp42%2Fsilver-nemsis%2FLois_And_Clark3x06Dont_Tug_On_Su-1.jpg&hash=00ac865f6c6820a537ec6b32cf52f87843643c6b)

Cain's Superman also strikes a brooding pose similar to the classic Batman 89 finale in the season 3 episode 'Double Jeopardy'.

(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi396.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp42%2Fsilver-nemsis%2Ffinalepose_zpsa6426382.jpg&hash=4cc48736049e66bfd9d5ffdfe76ad5797b64478e)

As far as connections between The Flash and Lois and Clark go, S.T.A.R. Labs featured prominently in both shows and Barry mentions Lois Lane in the episode 'Captain Cold'. Also I'm pretty sure The Flash and Lois and Clark were filmed on the same studio lot. Check out the building behind the Flash in this shot. Isn't that the Daily Planet building?

(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi396.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp42%2Fsilver-nemsis%2Fdailyplanetbuilding_zps76e30a6f.jpg&hash=b48d456b9f61954c91904edc3571a7610bc9438e)

And of course they both have that stylish nineties TV show atmosphere. I've also noticed certain plotlines from The Flash were reused in the first season of Lois and Clark. The L&C episode 'The Foundling' has a lot in common with The Flash episode 'Child's Play', while 'Vatman' is really similar to 'Twin Streaks'.

Of course Schumacher's Batman could also fit in with The Flash and Lois and Clark. Superman and Metropolis are both mentioned in his films. And in some episodes of The Flash Central City looks a bit like Schumacher's Gotham on account of the colourful lighting. But in other episodes it looks dark and gloomy like Burton's Gotham. The tone of the villains also varies from episode to episode. Some of them are goofy and wouldn't seem out of place in a Schumacher movies (e.g. the hippy drug dealers from 'Child's Play' or Hamill's Trickster), but I think most of the villains were darker and more grounded than that. Certainly if you compare the TV version of Captain Cold against Schumacher's Mr Freeze, it's obvious that one of them is a lot darker and more threatening than the other. All in all, I'd say Captain Cold was closer to what Burton's Mr Freeze might have been like than Schumacher's. Similarly I think other Flash villains like Pike, Mirror Master and Deadly Nightshade would fit in better with Burton's vision than his successor's.

I'd say the same thing about Lois and Clark. The first two seasons had a lot of humour in the form of witty repartee and eccentric supporting characters, but the overall result was very faithful to the comics and felt reasonably grounded and dramatic. By contrast, the later seasons – particularly season 4 – veered into high camp and ditched the classic comic rogues of the first two seasons in favour of some really absurd original villains. Seasons one and two would gel better with Burton's Batman, while seasons three and four would work better with Schumacher's. At least that's my perspective on the matter.

Come to think of it, The Flash is sort of like the tonal middle ground between Batman 89 and Batman Forever. It's darker and more serious than Schumacher's film, but not as dark or violent as Burton's. It's a neat compromise between the two.

I cannot believe the Keaton Batmobile appeared in Lois and Clark. Why was it there? Was it merely for a purpose of a joke? As a kid back in the nineties I must say I hated, HATED, Lois and Clark. It was always a "poor mans Christopher Reeve Superman" to me even at a young age. I've now come to accept it and enjoy the first two seasons very much. Part of the reason I disliked is that more or less every superhero tv show (with the exception of Adam West's Batman) tends to focus primarily on the alter-ego. The Hulk tv show. The old Spider-Man show. Smallville e.c.t That kind of thing drove me crazy. I think it's better to balance it out (as comics and movies do). I always felt it was short changing the audience at keeping the uniqueness of the characters bottled up in a drama show. Thank goodness the tv Batman people never gave a damn about Bruce Wayne and wanted wacky comic book action in bat bucketloads lol

I have to say as a fan I prefer to imagine the Reeve Superman movies in the same universe as Keaton's Batman. Yes I know their polar opposites but to me so are the comics themselves (even Batman Returns "dark fairytale" style opening prologue is an utter world away from the gritty urban city opening of the original Batman). It's just too much fun imagining Keaton's Bruce Wayne out there completing his training and perhaps hearing about all that Superman vs General Zod action going down in Metropolis somewhere. For me it makes the movie universes of both series larger and more epic and fun.

That's another aspect of reboots I despise. Having had The Avengers just what version of Spider-Man (and other Marvel characters) exists in this Marvel movie-verse of combined characters? Tobey Maguire or Andrew Garfield? I'm firmly a Maguire fan but because of that dreadfully useless reboot the smart money now would be to say Garfield. Christ does that spoil all the fun imagining! lol And bizaarely then you have the X-Men who have yet to suffer the movie reboot (and jesus you know it is coming one day folks!). There still in the same universe they kick started back in 2000. Are they not survivors of a Marvel movie-verse "Crisis on Infinite Earths" event? Now there's a movie for you!

Quote from: Bobthegoon89 on Fri, 29 Mar  2013, 00:15I cannot believe the Keaton Batmobile appeared in Lois and Clark. Why was it there? Was it merely for a purpose of a joke?

The episode featured an eccentric rich couple who collected unspeakably rare things. The Batmobile is simply there. It is not commented upon. It's just a prop intended to illustrate the crazy stuff the villains were able to get their hands on.

Quote from: Bobthegoon89 on Fri, 29 Mar  2013, 00:15As a kid back in the nineties I must say I hated, HATED, Lois and Clark. It was always a "poor mans Christopher Reeve Superman" to me even at a young age. I've now come to accept it and enjoy the first two seasons very much. Part of the reason I disliked is that more or less every superhero tv show (with the exception of Adam West's Batman) tends to focus primarily on the alter-ego. The Hulk tv show. The old Spider-Man show. Smallville e.c.t That kind of thing drove me crazy. I think it's better to balance it out (as comics and movies do). I always felt it was short changing the audience at keeping the uniqueness of the characters bottled up in a drama show. Thank goodness the tv Batman people never gave a damn about Bruce Wayne and wanted wacky comic book action in bat bucketloads lol

Nature of the beast. TV, by virtue of budget and time constraints, does personal and intimate naturally. They tend to go to the nines with character development because they have the screen time to do it and usually not a sufficient enough budget or time (per episode) to do huge action sequences.

Due to the expanded time and budget, features tend to do big, wild spectacles. That can and often does come at the expense of characterization though because films have 2 or 2.5 hours (if they're lucky) to make their point.

It's for these reasons that I always scratch my head when people complain that a TV show episode wasn't "big and epic" enough or an action film didn't have the textured, nuanced characters they claim they would prefer.

Anyway. So on that basis, L&C largely succeeded at being an investigative drama for TV which largely kept Clark, Lois and their courtship at the center of all the stories. As far as characterization is concerned, I'd put it up against anything in terms of consistency. You may not like the show but you can't argue that their version of Lois and Clark weren't absurdly well-written characters.

When Jonathan Frakes' character shows off their collection he says about the car that him and his wife are "Batty" about. Before that as they first walk into their private museum and the Batmoblie is seen as part of their collection you briefly hear the opening notes of Danny Elfman's Batman theme.

I do not understand the complaint of television Superhero shows not being epic either. Its better to focus on the characters which they can effectively handle. Lois & Clark was criticized for not having have big powerful super villains. Well it was wise that they did that, look at Smallville's use of Doomsday and Darkseid. A lot of build up over the season to quick, poorly done fights which disappointed the fans.

QuoteThe Flash and Lois & Clark were both shot at Warner Bros Studios in Burbank. In almost every episode you can see parts of the backlot used in both shows. Also some parts of Batman Returns, Batman Forever, and Batman & Robin were shot on the same backlot. I took the tour in 2001 and I recognized everything. Its very cool because unlike Universal you are allowed to get of the tour trams. I got a picture in front of the location of the Daily Planet. The Central Police Station is still there but for ER they added a L train track in front of it to look like Chicago. The cool thing is that was when L&C was on. The effects team added a train on it in a background shot in a L&C episode. Which really impressed the people on ER because back than a drama like that had no cgi effects at all. They built the tracks just as something for their characters to walk under.

Ah, so it was the same backlot. It must have been an awesome place to visit.

QuoteWhen Jonathan Frakes' character shows off their collection he says about the car that him and his wife are "Batty" about. Before that as they first walk into their private museum and the Batmoblie is seen as part of their collection you briefly hear the opening notes of Danny Elfman's Batman theme.

This is the closest we ever got to a canonical explanation for why there's a different Batmobile in Batman Forever – the original model was stolen by Commander Riker!

QuoteAnyway. So on that basis, L&C largely succeeded at being an investigative drama for TV which largely kept Clark, Lois and their courtship at the center of all the stories. As far as characterization is concerned, I'd put it up against anything in terms of consistency. You may not like the show but you can't argue that their version of Lois and Clark weren't absurdly well-written characters.

Very true. And the same applies to the supporting cast. L&C showcased a very likable group of characters. Even if the storyline of one episode sucked, there was still a good chance you'd enjoy it because you liked spending time with the characters in the world they inhabited.

One of the main weaknesses of The Flash was that the supporting cast weren't terribly interesting. Take for example Julio. He's ok for the first few episodes, but after a certain point he doesn't do anything. He doesn't have any interesting relationships (there is a hint in one episode that he might figure out Barry is the Flash, but they don't go anywhere with it – that idea could have had potential) and he doesn't play an important role in most of the episodes (a notable exception being 'Beat the Clock', which is my least favourite episode of the entire series). He just smirks and sets Barry up on blind dates. Compare that with the way Jimmy was developed in L&C: his secret crush on Lois, his friendship with Clark, his father-son relationship with Perry, his numerous failed romances, his aspirations of being a reporter, etc. Several episodes centred around Jimmy and he always felt like he served a purpose in the storylines, rather than just being there for the sake of being there. The same cannot be said of Julio in The Flash.

Lois and Clark was very much a character driven show, with the action and special effects serving the plot rather than the other way around. And for me, it's far more epic to have a likeable group of fully rounded, well written characters develop and evolve over four seasons than to have an overblown two hour movie where plot and characterisation play second fiddle to the effects.

I'd cite Superman's success on television as evidence of why he's such a great character. Not just in Lois and Clark, but also in The Adventures of Superman and Smallville. None of those shows excelled in special effects and spectacle, but they used what little they had to good effect. Ultimately their success hinged on the strength of the characters and the interesting relationships between them.

Here's a little test (inspired by Plinkett's Star Wars reviews) to evaluate the strength of characterisation for any given superhero. Try writing a description of their personality, but without mentioning their powers, costume or origin story. Just focus on their personality. The more you can write, the stronger the characterisation is. And there's a lot you can say about Clark Kent and the other recurring characters in Lois & Clark.

I think Barry Allen was a reasonably strong character too, and I liked the way Shipp played him. But many of the supporting characters weren't so interesting. Another problem with the show – and one which Shipp himself has pointed out in interviews – was the lack of a compelling story arc. The "will they, won't they" relationship between Barry and Tina didn't work very well, so there was nothing to draw casual viewers back week after week. But despite those weaknesses, it was still a great show. And I'm sure the writers would have improved upon its faults had they gotten a second season.

I actually just started re-watching the show again. Every episode is on youtube. The last time I watched it, I was 8-9 years old.

QuoteI actually just started re-watching the show again.

I started rewatching it again last month. It's tempting to watch an episode every evening, but I'm trying to pace myself to make it last until the beginning of summer. So far I'm up to episode 8 'The Shroud of Death'. I'm also rewatching Lois and Clark season 1, so I like combining an episode from each series for a nineties superhero double bill.

I'm going through a bit of a Flash phase at the moment. I'm watching the show again, but I'm also currently reading Geoff Johns' The Flash: Rebirth and I've been playing as the Flash in Lego Batman 2: DC Super Heroes. I don't know why Warner Bros can't just pull their finger out and make a Flash movie. IMO he's the third best DC superhero after Superman and Batman. He's got lots of classic stories to draw from, a great gallery of rogues and a solid roster of supporting characters. I wish they'd at least make an animated movie.

If only DC could sell their superhero properties to other studios. If anyone other than Warner Bros had the rights, I'm certain we'd have had several Flash films by now.

QuoteI don't know why Warner Bros can't just pull their finger out and make a Flash movie. IMO he's the third best DC superhero after Superman and Batman. He's got lots of classic stories to draw from, a great gallery of rogues and a solid roster of supporting characters. I wish they'd at least make an animated movie.

If only DC could sell their superhero properties to other studios. If anyone other than Warner Bros had the rights, I'm certain we'd have had several Flash films by now.

If Flash was a Marvel character, we definitely would have.  >:(

I absolutely loved this show! I had an opportunity to meet John Wesley Shipp and Amanda Pays at a convention and they were both very affable. It's a shame the DVD didn't have any special features. Although the creators did record a podcast commentary track for the last episode, which can be listened to while watching the show.

QuoteI had an opportunity to meet John Wesley Shipp and Amanda Pays at a convention and they were both very affable.

That must have been awesome. I've watched quite a few interviews with Shipp on YouTube and he seems like a genuinely nice guy with a lot of enthusiasm for the Barry Allen character.

QuoteAlthough the creators did record a podcast commentary track for the last episode, which can be listened to while watching the show.

You wouldn't happen to have a link to where I could listen to that, would you? I heard something about it a while back but couldn't track it down.

I'm still holding out hope for a proper DVD release with extra features. If they do that they should include the tie-in comic released in 1991, as well as the 'Requiem for a Scarlet Speedster' episode of Batman: The Brave and the Bold. That would be sweet.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Mon,  6 May  2013, 15:20

QuoteAlthough the creators did record a podcast commentary track for the last episode, which can be listened to while watching the show.

You wouldn't happen to have a link to where I could listen to that, would you? I heard something about it a while back but couldn't track it down.

I'm still holding out hope for a proper DVD release with extra features. If they do that they should include the tie-in comic released in 1991, as well as the 'Requiem for a Scarlet Speedster' episode of Batman: The Brave and the Bold. That would be sweet.

Here's the podcast:

https://www.box.com/s/1qiog21jkfjxsdykrr2l

Yea, it's a shame that WB wanted to be cheap since I'm sure the cast/crew would've gladly done some official commentaries, interviews, etc.

Hey Guys, I found this very rare behind the scenes making of The Flash tv series from the 90's.  Hope you all enjoy.

https://youtu.be/IV_5FFvudCM

Great find! I wish this footage was included for the DVD set.

Conceptually, I would say this show was ahead of its time. As Paul DeMeo says, Flash having to go through this transformation where he has physical side effects and suffers from doubts do make his characterization complicated, and its legacy ensures that we got the current CW show.

I've never heard of this before. But I am pretty young and Flash isn't really my favorite DC hero.  :)

The whole series is available to watch on the CW Seed
http://cwseed.com/shows/the-flash-classic/

I'm mainly familiar with the current CW show, but checked out the 90 minute pilot and wow...definitely a different take. I can see why this one feels associated with the Burton Batman films as this seemed like they were capitalizing on it much in the same way that Arrow was capitalizing on the Nolan Batman films.

Looking forward to watching more and imagining this and Lois & Clark in the same universe as the 90s Batman.

Quote from: BatmAngelus on Thu, 28 Jan  2016, 19:36Looking forward to watching more and imagining this and Lois & Clark in the same universe as the 90s Batman.

Ah, yes – I like to think that somewhere out there in the DC Multiverse is Earth-90, a world populated by the heroes of the nineties DC adaptations. A Justice League for the Nirvana, Baywatch, Central Perk generation.


No! Not them!

I meant these guys:


And if they need extra reinforcements they can always call on Nightshade, Silverstone's Batgirl or Shaq's Steel for backup. I just wish there was a nineties Green Lantern and Wonder Woman to fill out their ranks.

Have you watched any more episodes of The Flash yet, BatmAngelus? And if so, what are your thoughts?

Kevin Conroy and Mark Hamill constitute one of the most iconic hero/villain pairings in the history of comic book adaptations. But for me, the pairing of John Wesley Shipp and Hamill is every bit as classic. So to see them still going at it, in live action, over a quarter of a century since they first battled, is a real treat.  :)

I just stumbled across this interesting 'making of' featurette. I'd not seen it before.

Thanks for posting that! It's exactly the type of thing that should've been on the DVD release...

Agreed. I'm sure the cast and crew would have been willing to participate in the recording of new material too. Many of them attended a special reunion screening in 2015 and seemed only too happy to discuss the making of the show.


Something like this would have been perfect for the DVD.

John Wesley Shipp is returning as the nineties TV Flash in the upcoming Elseworlds crossover event set in the Arrowverse!


I never thought this would happen so long after the original series ended. It bodes well for those of us hoping for a Lois & Clark revival.

EDIT: Okay, so I need to find an image which is actually from The Flash show in order to illustrate my point. Oh well...

Y'know, Shipp's Flash show was a pretty big hit inside Hollywood. It never really found a real audience and it cost a small fortune to produce. But "the industry" loved it, which could be why the show lasted as relatively long as it did -- considering it could've just as easily been cancelled mid-season.

And I think it would be fair to say that the show's influence and legacy are tragically unsung. The show could be a little cheesy at times, there's no denying that. Or at least I'm not denying it.

But Bilson and DeMeo seemed to want the show to be as film-like as possible. Lighting and shadow were always crafted with the utmost care as per your image above. As you probably already know, that type of lighting doesn't happen all by itself. It takes time and effort to set up light rigs like that. It's easy to overlook now but NOTHING on TV looked like The Flash at the time.

Compare any average episode of The Flash to basically anything from the first season of Lois & Clark. I love L&C but that show didn't try as hard to have feature-quality lighting and cinematography. L&C was a romantic drama with a side of superheroism while The Flash was as faithful to the comics as it dared to be considering it was an early 90's comic book show... a fidelity (limited though it may have been) for which it arguably paid the price.

Looking ahead, the visuals and cinematography of more recent comic shows gives a greater appreciation for this Flash show. No, the show wasn't perfect. But it also never even attempted to be like anything else on TV at the time, the series wore its science-fantasy style on its sleeve and it was an early pioneer in stuff we take for granted now in comic book shows.

In the final analysis, I regard The Flash (1990) as a trailblazing implosion, a pioneering (and noble) failure which set the stage for future successes with other shows.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 23 Oct  2018, 04:11Compare any average episode of The Flash to basically anything from the first season of Lois & Clark. I love L&C but that show didn't try as hard to have feature-quality lighting and cinematography. L&C was a romantic drama with a side of superheroism while The Flash was as faithful to the comics as it dared to be considering it was an early 90's comic book show... a fidelity (limited though it may have been) for which it arguably paid the price.

That's fair. L&C is awesome, but the look of the show is pretty much that of your standard nineties family TV drama. It's warm and cosy, and the sets and costumes have a charming nineties style to them. But it doesn't go for the colourful-yet-dark comic book aesthetic the way The Flash did. The visual style of The Flash is essentially a grittier, less eroticised version of what Schumacher was going for with his Batman films. RoboCop 2, which also came out in 1990, made similar use of graffiti and coloured lights, albeit to a far lesser extent than The Flash did.


Back in the nineties, superhero adaptations had three main options as far as visuals went:

•   the retro look (The Rocketeer, The Shadow, The Phantom)
•   the gothic look (Batman Returns, The Crow, Spawn)
•   the dark-colourful look (Dick Tracy, The Flash, Batman Forever)

The Flash helped define the latter visual style and was certainly an influence on Shucmacher's Batman movies. Clearly it also had a huge impact on the CW Flash series. It deserves more credit.

Here's another picture of Shipp back in the suit. I've always maintained that his was the best live action Flash costume, and this picture supports that claim.


He really doesn't look much different here from how he appeared in the early nineties. If Shipp can play the Flash again at the age of 63, then I don't see why a 52-year-old Dean Cain shouldn't play Superman again.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 23 Oct  2018, 04:11

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DqJsoI2UcAI6RWi.jpg)

EDIT: Okay, so I need to find an image which is actually from The Flash show in order to illustrate my point. Oh well...

Y'know, Shipp's Flash show was a pretty big hit inside Hollywood. It never really found a real audience and it cost a small fortune to produce. But "the industry" loved it, which could be why the show lasted as relatively long as it did -- considering it could've just as easily been cancelled mid-season.

And I think it would be fair to say that the show's influence and legacy are tragically unsung. The show could be a little cheesy at times, there's no denying that. Or at least I'm not denying it.

But Bilson and DeMeo seemed to want the show to be as film-like as possible. Lighting and shadow were always crafted with the utmost care as per your image above. As you probably already know, that type of lighting doesn't happen all by itself. It takes time and effort to set up light rigs like that. It's easy to overlook now but NOTHING on TV looked like The Flash at the time.

Compare any average episode of The Flash to basically anything from the first season of Lois & Clark. I love L&C but that show didn't try as hard to have feature-quality lighting and cinematography. L&C was a romantic drama with a side of superheroism while The Flash was as faithful to the comics as it dared to be considering it was an early 90's comic book show... a fidelity (limited though it may have been) for which it arguably paid the price.

Looking ahead, the visuals and cinematography of more recent comic shows gives a greater appreciation for this Flash show. No, the show wasn't perfect. But it also never even attempted to be like anything else on TV at the time, the series wore its science-fantasy style on its sleeve and it was an early pioneer in stuff we take for granted now in comic book shows.

In the final analysis, I regard The Flash (1990) as a trailblazing implosion, a pioneering (and noble) failure which set the stage for future successes with other shows.

I remember watching an episode in Flash Season 2 where Grant Gustin's Barry run through the Speed Force and there was a shot of Shipp in the Flash costume appearing among all these windows showing various multiverse dimensions. That, and Mark Hamill reprising the Trickster role were great little Easter eggs, but I thought that was as far as it got when it came to referencing the 1990s Flash TV show.

Well, I'm delighted that Shipp is playing the "original" Barry Allen once again after nearly thirty years. He doesn't look like he has aged a bit while in costume. I haven't kept up with the Arrowverse for two years because there are too many shows to keep nowadays, but maybe I should give this Elseworlds-looking crossover a watch. Love it or hate it, CW's Flash does celebrate Shipp's underrated legacy on the character, as he has ready played Henry Allen and Jay Garrick.

Going back to the original TV show, am I the only one where the final episode with Mark Hamill playing the Trickster for the second time was the best the show ever got in terms of production quality? The other episodes did have some moments were production wasn't always at the best. But I guess that was the limitation of doing a show this ambitious back then. Man...looking back at the Art Deco atmosphere and quirky sense of humour and how it reminded me of B89, I actually thought in my young little mind that this crossover would come to fruition one day. Sighs.

(https://i.imgur.com/FA7hYmm.jpg)

Maybe DC should release a comic book instead. If the Batman 60s show can be revived in comics, there's no reason why a comic crossover between these beloved screen portrayals can't happen.

After almost three decades, he's finally back! It looks like his universe is officially designated Earth-90.


It's nice to hear a quotation from Elfman's theme music. And Smallville fans will notice some familiar corpses littering the scene. Normally I don't follow the Arrowverse, but this crossover event looks like a really fun idea. I'm still hoping they'll get at least one reference to the Burtonverse in there somewhere. 

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Mon,  3 Dec  2018, 11:15
After almost three decades, he's finally back! It looks like his universe is officially designated Earth-90.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bryH6PVAbo

It's nice to hear a quotation from Elfman's theme music. And Smallville fans will notice some familiar corpses littering the scene. Normally I don't follow the Arrowverse, but this crossover event looks like a really fun idea. I'm still hoping they'll get at least one reference to the Burtonverse in there somewhere.

I say they should throw in as many winks, references and nods as they can possibly afford. The whole concept is built around that.

To get back on topic though, Shipp was the gateway into The Flash for a lot of people. It's gratifying to see him back as literally Barry and literally The Flash. Stunt-casting Shipp as Barry's father is fine in its place. And honestly, I would've been content with that. But the elastic nature of the Arrowverse's approach to the multiverse allows Shipp to return as his version of The Flash and I CHERISH that.

A big part of the appeal here goes back to what that little clip suggests about Shipp's version of Barry. He's been hammering away, fighting the good fight FOR NEARLY THIRTY YEARS. That version of The Flash always bordered on being incorruptible and I savor how nobody's shying away from that.

It's nice to know that Shipp's Flash has his own action figure under the DC Multiverse toyline.

(https://images.mattel.com/scene7/FPC17_02?$oslarge$)

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed,  3 Apr  2013, 18:37...a notable exception being 'Beat the Clock', which is my least favourite episode of the entire series...

Wow. My opinion of 'Beat the Clock' has completely changed since I wrote this statement. I now think it's a really strong episode. Not in my top 5 perhaps, but definitely above average. Maybe I was confusing it with another episode when I wrote that comment. Hmmm.

Anyway, here's a cool clip from a convention in Ecuador where John Wesley Shipp finally meets the Burton Batman.


That Flash costume is excellent. I wish the suit in Justice League (2017) had looked more like this one.

I still haven't watched the recent CW Elseworlds event yet, but I'm planning to soon. Has anyone else seen it? And if so, what's the verdict?

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Tue,  5 Feb  2019, 18:46

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed,  3 Apr  2013, 18:37...a notable exception being 'Beat the Clock', which is my least favourite episode of the entire series...

Wow. My opinion of 'Beat the Clock' has completely changed since I wrote this statement. I now think it's a really strong episode. Not in my top 5 perhaps, but definitely above average. Maybe I was confusing it with another episode when I wrote that comment. Hmmm.

Anyway, here's a cool clip from a convention in Ecuador where John Wesley Shipp finally meets the Burton Batman.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KcS_pJTa9A

That Flash costume is excellent. I wish the suit in Justice League (2017) had looked more like this one.

I still haven't watched the recent CW Elseworlds event yet, but I'm planning to soon. Has anyone else seen it? And if so, what's the verdict?

It's... eh. Without giving much away, there's fairly minimal Shipp-as-Flash stuff going on. There's also a development which presents itself as a subplot but quickly became a main plot very quickly involving Barry and Ollie. You'll know it when you see it. That story element got a bit tiresome very quickly.

There's also a really idiotic resolution for Superman in the story. I have yet to "meet" anybody who approves of it. Nearly everybody seems furious, if anything.

On a general note, these annual crossovers started off great. But I guess it's sort of like the Avengers effect, where simply seeing them all together on the same screen is novelty that doesn't last very long... not least because it's happening more and more frequently now. I have less of a stake in the Arrowverse than most people do. So bear that in mind as you consider my ambivalence here.

I stopped following both Arrow and The Flash during their first seasons. And now, after watching all three episodes of the recent Elseworlds trilogy, I remember why. I thought this 'event' was more or less on a par with the 1997 Justice League TV movie. It was bad.

JWS's Flash is hardly in it. He appears in about four scenes, the longest of which lasts maybe two minutes. What really bugs me about this though is the fact they just annihilated the whole of Earth-90 for the sake of such a brief cameo. Tina, Julio, Barry's nephew Shawn – unless I'm missing something, all of those characters are now dead. I know reality was reset in the primary universe, but they didn't say anything about restoring Earth-90. And what actually happened to JWS's Flash? The Monitor apparently banished him to some other dimension, but his fate was never explained. Maybe they'll bring him back in a later episode and have him restore his own universe to its original state. I hope so, because otherwise this was a horrible send-off for Shipp's incarnation of the character. I guess you either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become a lame cameo in a CW show.

In the past I've said I'd like to see the nineties Flash TV show connected with the Burtonverse Batman films and Lois & Clark. But in retrospect, I'm very glad that didn't happen. I'd hate to see what the minds behind the Arrowverse might do with the Burton/Schumacher Batman or Cain's Superman if they ever got hold of them. I've also said in the past that Batman-without-Batman TV shows don't work for me. And they still don't. I'm baffled why WB keeps making them. They're all the same: Bruce Wayne has mysteriously disappeared, so we're left with an endless stream of Easter eggs and cameos by his gallery of rogues while some other DC character steps in to fill the void. It looks like the new Batwoman series is going to follow this same tired formula.

On the Easter egg front, they used Chicago for the Gotham City scenes and even the Chicago Board of Trade Building for Wayne Enterprises. Nolan used that same building for Wayne Enterprises in Batman Begins. Some of the location shots were clearly intended to evoke the look of Nolan's films.


When Oliver, Barry and Kara first arrive in Gotham they get mugged at 'Nolan and Burton'. Subtle.

Later Kara finds the Shakespeare bust from the sixties TV show in Bruce Wayne's office.


Alfred gets mentioned, and the names on the doors at Arkham Asylum include Cobblepot, Isley, Karlo and Nigma. The Nolan Bane's mask is also present in Arkham.


As is Mr Freeze's gun and Scarecrow's fear toxin. All of these Batman references felt like hollow fan service to me. This sort of thing was old when the first season of Gotham aired. By now it's prehistoric.

But what of the Earth-90 Flash? Well the scene where he appears through the interdimensional breach to issue a warning was obviously a nod to Crisis on Infinite Earths and Batman v Superman.


In the original series episode 'Watching the Detectives' Tina had mentioned Carter Hall. Now, almost three decades later, we finally get to see this version of Hawkman. Or at least his corpse. We also see the corpse of Captain Cold – the only other character to return from the nineties TV show.


Last time we saw him in the classic series he'd been frozen by his own gun. Evidently he was thawed out at some point and eventually joined forces with the Flash, only to be killed by the Monitor. Seems a bit pointless really.

But like I say, hopefully they'll bring JWS back and do right by his version of the Flash and the universe that spawned him. The last time we saw him in the original series he was triumphantly patrolling a city that had finally embraced his presence.


But now, thanks to the Arrowverse, our final glimpse of JWS's Flash is this humiliating defeat.


:(

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue,  5 Feb  2019, 20:50There's also a really idiotic resolution for Superman in the story. I have yet to "meet" anybody who approves of it. Nearly everybody seems furious, if anything.

Add me to the list of people who didn't like it. But sadly this reflects a larger trend right now. Not just in terms of DC repeatedly benching Superman (I shudder at the thought of Brainiac making his cinematic debut in a Supergirl movie instead of Man of Steel II), but also with regards to male heroes surrendering turf to their female counterparts. We saw this in Iron Fist season 2 where Danny, to make amends for the sin of mansplaining in the previous season, literally gave his powers to Colleen and left her to protect New York City as the new Iron Fist. Now we have Batman abandoning Gotham to Batwoman and Superman leaving Supergirl in charge of Earth. Why bother having the male heroes exist in the first place if they're only going to be absent?

I can halfway see the argument for the Arrowverse dismissing Superman the way they have. First, there's nothing to stop future Hoechlin cameos in the future. But being written out in the way he was while hopefully quell the demand for a solo Hoechlin show. Frankly, Supergirl has covered so much of Superman's ground that it's fair to suggest that there's nothing left for Hoechlin's Superman to have for himself in a solo Superman show. His origin, his powers, a lot of his supporting cast, several of his primary enemies, etc, all have been poached by Supergirl. What's left?

The broader trend of male character infrastructure being given to somebody else originally didn't bother me at first. But now that the agenda is becoming clearer, yeah, I'm done with it. At this point, it's a hack idea.

Here are some new pics of JWS's Flash in the upcoming Crisis on Infinite Earths crossover event. Hopefully they'll treat him with more respect this time around and give him a bigger role.


He can also be glimpsed on the poster.


Producer Marc Guggenheim has said there's at least one big cameo which has yet to be spoiled online. Some are speculating it could be Cain's Superman or Hamill as a live action version of his Joker. Some are even saying it might be O'Donnell as Nightwing, though I can't see that happening as long as he's starring in NCIS: Los Angeles. It's possible Guggenheim is simply referring to someone that's been unofficially reported but not yet confirmed (e.g. Robert Wuhl as Knox or Lynda Carter as Wonder Woman). But I'm hoping it's Cain. And if it is, I want Hatcher to put in an appearance as well.

I'm sure everybody has seen Shipp's Flash making that sacrifice in the third episode of the COIE crossover, which is a nod to the character's selfless act in the original source material.

I have to say that although the scene itself was performed well, I'm disappointed to admit I didn't feel anything. At all. The reason is because the Elseworlds and COIE crossovers were the first productions we got to see of Shipp reprising the role for the first time in nearly thirty years...and what, he had a total of ten minutes of screentime altogether? That's it? That's so disappointing. It makes the moment feel incomplete. Even more so when you consider that CW's Flash had the likes of Amanda Pays' Tina McGee, Mark Hamill's Trickster and even Vito D'Ambrosio guest starring before. If the Arrowverse wanted to pay tribute to the original show's legacy, I would've preferred they spent some time for one more hurrah for Shipp and all of his surviving characters before their world gets destroyed. Instead, this is how that show's continuity ends: just a few quick scenes of Shipp, he makes a selfless act together with a hastily edit to call back to a moment from a thirty year old episode, and that's all.

I didn't get to watch Elseworlds until only a month ago, in tandem with COIE. Instead of having that stupid body switcheroo between CW Barry Allen and Oliver Queen, wouldn't it be better to give Shipp's Flash a more prominent role? They couldn't think of a much better storyline, if this prequel was about the Monitor testing that world's best heroes for the impending threat ahead? Or would giving Earth-90's Barry Allen more screen time take too much away from bland characters like Batwoman or Hoechlin's Superman?  ::)

While I'm complaining about missed opportunities, it's a missed one for the CW Flash continuity too. Shipp had been playing Henry Allen for the first couple of seasons, and he was murdered by Zoom in front of Barry's eyes in the second season. Had they put in more time to develop Shipp's return and get acquainted with Gustin's Barry, it could've increased the emotional resonance of Shipp making that sacrifice, as Gustin's Barry is reminded of the death of his father yet again.

I'm aware the Arrowverse has too many productions going on to worry about before putting in a greater effort to honour the 1990 Flash TV show, but if you ask me, this goes to show what's wrong with this franchise nowadays. They're biting more than they can chew. They simply can't to do these crossover storylines and certain characters (i.e. Supergirl AND Superman) any justice with their cheap TV budgets. The Arrowverse, in my opinion, was at its peak when it focused only a couple of shows - Arrow and The Flash. Sure, neither show at their peak were in the same league as Netflix's Daredevil, but they were still better and more focused than what the Arrowverse has become today. Trying to incorporate Legends of Tomorrow, Supergirl, Batwoman and Superman and Lois (God forbid  :-[) is only making the quality worse. In many ways, Arrowverse's excess of shows is similar to the problem I have with the MCU's need to increase its number of movies per year. Less is more!

Apologies for the long-winded rant, but I'm disappointed. I never thought I'd ever live to see the day of watching John Wesley Shipp play the Flash again...and come out of the experience saying "it could've been better". Oh well.

Fun fact: In Elseworlds, Shipp's Flash greets John Diggle, and mentions that the other John in his world carries a ring. This is a nod to the old Arrowverse fan theories speculating that John Diggle is CW's version of John Stewart aka Green Lantern.

Shipp, Routh and (somewhat) Amell seem to be the only cast members who are still engaged with these characters, this material and this world. Everybody else seems completely checked out and disinterested. Gustin in particular often looks like he'd rather be somewhere else (dammit, ANYWHERE else). But even the other cast members don't seem all that invested in what they're doing anymore.

Berlanti (or someone) said COIE is probably the end of the line for these crossovers. Finis. No mas. From now on, apparently, the various shows won't all join together like this. Well, duh. Arrow is coming to an end, from the sounds of things Batwoman isn't long for this world, Supergirl isn't far behind and Legends Of Tomorrow has never not been on a bubble. The Flash is doing decent ratings but even that has declined a bit.

They won't do another mega crossover like this again? Yeah, tell me something I don't know, guys.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu,  2 Jan  2020, 17:36
Arrow is coming to an end, from the sounds of things Batwoman isn't long for this world, Supergirl isn't far behind and Legends Of Tomorrow has never not been on a bubble. The Flash is doing decent ratings but even that has declined a bit.

Hold your horses, the Arrowverse isn't finished yet. At least not for another season.

Quote
On late Tuesday, The CW announced it renewed almost its entire slate of shows, including DC Comics series like The Flash, Supergirl, and Black Lightning. The only exceptions are shows already scheduled to end, like Arrow and The 100, and the Riverdale spinoff Katy Keene, which received an additional 13-episode pickup the network just granted.

Looking at only the DC shows, here's a quick count of The CW's renewals.

The Flash renewed for Season 7
Supergirl renewed for Season 6
Legends of Tomorrow renewed for Season 6
Black Lightning renewed for Season 4
Batwoman renewed for Season 2

https://www.inverse.com/article/62193-arrowverse-cw-season-renewals-smaller-crossover-2020-crisis

Yes, I know your point was about the crossovers, but who knows, the producers may try to change their mind and try to milk another one. In spite of low budget quality and all.

Of course, Greg Berlanti was given control to adapt a Green Lantern Corps series for the new HBO Max streaming service, which was reported months ago. The concept was initially supposed to be a movie set in the DCEU. Snakes.

Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Wed, 24 Oct  2018, 11:41
Man...looking back at the Art Deco atmosphere and quirky sense of humour and how it reminded me of B89, I actually thought in my young little mind that this crossover would come to fruition one day. Sighs.

(https://i.imgur.com/FA7hYmm.jpg)

I found this fan-made retro trailer of how a Justice League film might've looked like back in the early 90s. I liked how it superimposed the lines and footage from The Flash's pilot episode and directed it at Keaton's Batman on the 34 second mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPMQEMwO0c8

I don't follow any of the DC CW shows anymore, but those who do might be interested to know that John Wesley Shipp is returning as the Flash in season 2 of Stargirl. He obviously won't be playing the Earth-90 Flash, since they already killed him off, but will instead be portraying the Jay Garrick version.
https://ew.com/tv/john-wesley-shipp-the-flash-stargirl-season-2/

This is interesting. Rex Smith recently spoke about the proposed Daredevil TV series that he and John Rhys-Davies were meant to star in. It's long been known that the 1989 TV movie The Trial of the Incredible Hulk was intended as a backdoor pilot for that show, but the series was never picked up.


Now it's been revealed that one of the reasons CBS passed on Daredevil was because of The Flash. According to Smith:

Quote"It was not just a guest star thing for film. This whole effort was a springboard for a series for the Daredevil. We were so excited, John and I both. He was signed on for the series too, to be my Moriarty for Sherlock Holmes. There'd be other baddies, but the real baddie that always had his hand in it was going to be John.

I hear from my agent. He goes, 'We have a problem.' I go, 'What kind of problem?' He goes, 'Well, [CBS] bought your contract for Daredevil, because they're coming out with The Flash and they don't want the competition. So NBC sold your contract.'"

https://www.ign.com/articles/daredevil-tv-series-90s-cancelled-flash-dc-marvel

That's harsh, but in the long run I think things worked out for the best. The Flash (1990-91) remains my favourite live action interpretation of that character, and Daredevil eventually got an outstanding and definitive TV series of his own twenty-five years later.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu,  6 May  2021, 14:27
This is interesting. Rex Smith recently spoke about the proposed Daredevil TV series that he and John Rhys-Davies were meant to star in. It's long been known that the 1989 TV movie The Trial of the Incredible Hulk was intended as a backdoor pilot for that show, but the series was never picked up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_0us7KGqRk

Now it's been revealed that one of the reasons CBS passed on Daredevil was because of The Flash. According to Smith:

Quote"It was not just a guest star thing for film. This whole effort was a springboard for a series for the Daredevil. We were so excited, John and I both. He was signed on for the series too, to be my Moriarty for Sherlock Holmes. There'd be other baddies, but the real baddie that always had his hand in it was going to be John.

I hear from my agent. He goes, 'We have a problem.' I go, 'What kind of problem?' He goes, 'Well, [CBS] bought your contract for Daredevil, because they're coming out with The Flash and they don't want the competition. So NBC sold your contract.'"

https://www.ign.com/articles/daredevil-tv-series-90s-cancelled-flash-dc-marvel

That's harsh, but in the long run I think things worked out for the best. The Flash (1990-91) remains my favourite live action interpretation of that character, and Daredevil eventually got an outstanding and definitive TV series of his own twenty-five years later.

Looking at The Flash's relatively paltry ratings, maybe CBS was right to buy out the Daredevil contract. They were obvious competition for each other in that era.

Well, tough break for John Rhys-Davies for a continued portrayal as Daredevil. Could have been interesting, but it is what it is.

As a "what if", I can't help but wonder which villains from Daredevil's rogues gallery might have made the transition from the comics, to a late 80's-early 90's Daredevil television series? We got the Kingpin making an appearance during Trial of the Incredible Hulk, who was noticeably visually different than the comic book Kingpin. I have to believe similar liberties probably would have been taken with Bullseye.

"If" the Daredevil show was successful, and "if" Elektra became a regular, or made sporadic appearances, it's interesting to think how she would have been interpreted? The thing about Miller wanting the late Gaylyn Gorg does come to mind when thinking about this...

Back to other villains, I can kinda see maybe the Owl, and Gladiator making appearances. Stilt-Man and Jester? Probably not. Unless of course NBC was going to push a much more cartoony/comic booky approach to the Daredevil series (akin to the 1990 Flash show), however by doing that, would be in contrast to what was established with Daredevil during Trial.

For me, I could "imagine" that John Rhys-Davies' Daredevil could co-exist with Bixby/Ferrigno's Banner/Hulk. Even when watching episodes from the TIH Seasons that predated Trial by a number of years. As TIH approach was a bit more grounded than the 1990 Flash series was. Which aimed to be much more stylized vision for the character, in light of Burton's 1989 Batman.

Quote from: The Joker on Fri,  7 May  2021, 04:42As a "what if", I can't help but wonder which villains from Daredevil's rogues gallery might have made the transition from the comics, to a late 80's-early 90's Daredevil television series? We got the Kingpin making an appearance during Trial of the Incredible Hulk, who was noticeably visually different than the comic book Kingpin. I have to believe similar liberties probably would have been taken with Bullseye.

"If" the Daredevil show was successful, and "if" Elektra became a regular, or made sporadic appearances, it's interesting to think how she would have been interpreted? The thing about Miller wanting the late Gaylyn Gorg does come to mind when thinking about this...

Back to other villains, I can kinda see maybe the Owl, and Gladiator making appearances. Stilt-Man and Jester? Probably not. Unless of course NBC was going to push a much more cartoony/comic booky approach to the Daredevil series (akin to the 1990 Flash show), however by doing that, would be in contrast to what was established with Daredevil during Trial.

I'm sure Elektra would have appeared, but I imagine a Bixbyverse version of the character being more akin to Jasmin (played by Elizabeth Gracen, who coincidentally appeared in The Flash that same year) in The Death of the Incredible Hulk (1990).


She probably would have worn a generic black catsuit instead of her classic red outfit, but would still have wielded her sai. Galyn Görg would have been the perfect casting choice back then.


Purple Man could have worked too, though they likely would have taken the Jessica Jones approach of ditching his purple appearance. To see what a nineties TV version of Killgrave might have been like, just watch The X-Files episodes featuring the villain Pusher.


Since Ann Nocenti's run was popular at the time, I imagine the TV show would have taken some cues from her writing. One Nocenti villain that would've suited the show's tone would be Bullet. I can imagine someone like Jonathan Frakes or Richard Moll guest starring in the role.


And how about Martin Kove as Nuke? Like the other villains in the show, he'd have been watered down quite a bit. I can see him being portrayed as a mentally unstable Vietnam vet battling drug addiction and committing random acts of violence in Matt's city. It could be one of those 'very special episodes' that tackles the issue of substance abuse.


A fight scene between Smith's Daredevil and Sensei Kreese would have been epic.

Quote from: The Joker on Fri,  7 May  2021, 04:42For me, I could "imagine" that John Rhys-Davies' Daredevil could co-exist with Bixby/Ferrigno's Banner/Hulk. Even when watching episodes from the TIH Seasons that predated Trial by a number of years. As TIH approach was a bit more grounded than the 1990 Flash series was. Which aimed to be much more stylized vision for the character, in light of Burton's 1989 Batman.

The Burton-influenced style of The Flash is one of the things I love about it. It came along at just the right time, sandwiched perfectly between B89 and BR. If they'd made it much later it would have risked being as bland and generic as the more recent CW Flash series. You're right that an early nineties Daredevil show wouldn't have had that same style. At best it would have been stylistically similar to Highlander: The Series. It might still have been good though.

Daredevil was a much better fit for the grounded tone of the Hulk TV series than Thor. I've got a soft spot for The Incredible Hulk Returns (1988), but an Asgardian always seemed out of place in that particular version of the Marvel universe. Daredevil didn't. Matt Murdock already had a precursor of sorts in the form of Li Sung, a blind stick-wielding martial arts instructor that Mako portrayed in several episodes of the TV show. Li Sung's first appearance in the second season episode 'Another Path' actually predates the debut of Stick in the comics. I've always thought that if Marvel ever published a Hulk '77 comic they should retcon it so that Li Sung trained Matt, thereby making him that universe's version of Stick.


The Horror Channel here in the UK reran the entire Incredible Hulk series about six or seven years ago, and I was able to catch quite a bit of it. I haven't seen every episode, but I think I've seen most of them, and I don't remember it ever featuring any Hulk villains from the comics. I'm open to correction on that point, but the only major character I recall them adapting was Banner himself. By contrast, The Trial of the Incredible Hulk featured several characters from the Daredevil comics. There was Matt, Fisk and Turk (the scene between Daredevil and Turk was spot on), and some of the supporting players seemed to have been inspired by comic characters too. I suspect Christa Klein and Al Pettiman were at least partly inspired by Karen Page and Willie Lincoln, and the nurse assassin that Fisk sends to kill Ellie Mendez was probably inspired by Lois from Born Again.


I wrote a comic-to-screen analysis of The Trial of the Incredible Hulk a few years ago that I never got around to posting. I'll refrain from going into more detail on that subject now in case I do eventually post it, but I will just say that there's a fair amount of material in the movie that's harvested from the comics.

QuoteI wrote a comic-to-screen analysis of The Trial of the Incredible Hulk a few years ago that I never got around to posting. I'll refrain from going into more detail on that subject now in case I do eventually post it, but I will just say that there's a fair amount of material in the movie that's harvested from the comics.

Please, by all means share what you came up with! Your latest post really fired up my imagination on what a Daredevil could have been like in the early 90's. Bilson and De Meo would have been ideal showrunners as they filtered the Silver Age era with the Modern Age era with The Flash. I always pictured Daredevil ideal for a 70's and 80's period piece. I was mostly happy with the Netflix series, but always craved for something of that era. The Trial of the Incredible Hulk movie seemed a bit old fashioned when it came out and would have benefited from being influenced by Batman '89 (I know Trial came out a month before it was released) and going for younger casting. Picturing Daredevil in a suit much like the one Affleck wore would have been suitable for this era as well.

There's a possible Easter egg in the episode 'Deadly Nightshade' where the original Nightshade knocks Joe Kline out with a tranquiliser dart during a live episode of his TV show. Kline is of course played Richard Belzer, who in real life was choked out by Hulk Hogan during a live TV episode in the mid eighties.


After rendering him unconscious in The Flash, Nightshade turns to the camera and says, "He's just gonna be asleep for a while." After Hogan knocked Belzer out, Mr. T tried to reassure the audience, saying, "He's all right. He's just sleeping." I'd like to think this was a deliberate reference.

Seems a bit too specific to be a coincidence.

This didn't warrant a thread of it's own, so I'm posting it here.

FLASHBACK 1997:

Wizard Magazine fan casts a 1997 "The Flash" movie.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FjbBErXVsAE2gpu?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FjbCENZVsAEeQTk?format=jpg&name=large)

McConaughey as Wally? Yeah, not buying that.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Mon, 31 Jul  2023, 20:31

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5JnV3anuXw

Good find. And informative. In today's world, I'd forgotten how CBS was "the old guy network" in 1990. All or most of what I wanted to watch was on Fox. The Flash was the only CBS thing that ever caught my interest. So, I guess I'm living proof that The Flash had a serious branding/identity problem on CBS.

On a different subject, I don't think I gave this an adequate response before. So...

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu,  6 May  2021, 14:27This is interesting. Rex Smith recently spoke about the proposed Daredevil TV series that he and John Rhys-Davies were meant to star in. It's long been known that the 1989 TV movie The Trial of the Incredible Hulk was intended as a backdoor pilot for that show, but the series was never picked up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_0us7KGqRk

Now it's been revealed that one of the reasons CBS passed on Daredevil was because of The Flash. According to Smith:

Quote"It was not just a guest star thing for film. This whole effort was a springboard for a series for the Daredevil. We were so excited, John and I both. He was signed on for the series too, to be my Moriarty for Sherlock Holmes. There'd be other baddies, but the real baddie that always had his hand in it was going to be John.

I hear from my agent. He goes, 'We have a problem.' I go, 'What kind of problem?' He goes, 'Well, [CBS] bought your contract for Daredevil, because they're coming out with The Flash and they don't want the competition. So NBC sold your contract.'"

https://www.ign.com/articles/daredevil-tv-series-90s-cancelled-flash-dc-marvel

That's harsh, but in the long run I think things worked out for the best. The Flash (1990-91) remains my favourite live action interpretation of that character, and Daredevil eventually got an outstanding and definitive TV series of his own twenty-five years later.

Something else that might've caused CBS to pull the plug on Daredevil is a simple visual problem.

Look at this thing from the perspective of the Boomers who were running CBS in 1990.

You've got The Flash, a comic book superhero clad head-to-toe in a red bodysuit.

Then you've got Daredevil... a comic book superhero clad head-to-toe in a red bodysuit.

The Flash was already positioned as a "dark action show kinda like Batman 89". What do you suppose Daredevil's branding would've been?

Considering the media realities going on in 1990, I might suggest that backing out of the Daredevil show might've been a wise decision from the standpoint of protecting The Flash's identity.

I see some logic in doing that. But at the same time, I am now fiendishly curious what a Daredevil TV show starring Smith and Rhys-Davies could've been like. Based on exactly nothing, I assume a Daredevil show could've been assembled for a considerably lower cost than The Flash. The characters, conflicts and storylines of Daredevil are more comfortable with a TV budget as well.

In the end, we'll never know. But the more time goes by, the more the Daredevil show is starting to look like the one that got away.

I rewatched the episode Fast Forward the other night. I've always enjoyed it, despite the budget shortcomings really shows. It's a simple yet nice way to wrap up the Nicholas Pike story, and how Barry's sense of betrayal after Central City had acquitted his brother's killer over a legal technicality paved the way for a future where Flash's disappearance allowed Pike to take over and turn the city into a dystopian nightmare. For a time travel story, it's a welcome change to have the protagonist travel forward in time instead of always going backward as we often see in fiction.

As I said, this is one of those episodes where the budget constraints do get noticeable in key sequences. but I love how Barry comes back to the present and intimidates Pike and his sidekicks by using his homing missile against them so he could force Pike to confess for murdering Jay. Sure, if you think about it too much, that confession could be dismissed in court, and if the media were quick to speculate the Flash as Jay's killer then I doubt that they'd be willing to let go of such a juicy headline for the truth. But hey, it's a comic book show, and this episode has to end on a feel-good note. No complaints from me, we have enough cynicism everywhere we go as is.

One of my favourite moments in this episode was Flash, while still recovering from the loss of his powers as he's stuck in the future, karate kicks a STAR Labs guard who fatally shot Julio and the cops Murphy and Bellows get interrogated by the police for carrying a Flash action figure contraband. I had that same action figure growing up.  ;D

https://www.actionfiguresandcomics.com/products/dc-comics-super-heroes-flash-1990-toy-biz-universe-action-figure

I was hesitating to share this video because one of the interviewers is a douche on social media, but he doesn't work for DC anymore and Shipp is talking, here it is. This is from three years ago.

Some of the highlights of Shipp's interview include how remembered the difficult and uncomfortable process he had to go through to wear the costume,  how Hamill embracing his Trickster persona while filming made Shipp get over his own insecurities with his own costume, and showing a copy of a rare Flash TV special comic book.

https://youtu.be/L4NP6pCgDz4

I forgot to point out in that interview is Shipp really appreciates his final scene as Earth-90 Barry in the Arrowverse version of Crisis of Infinite Earths. My problem is it doesn't really make up how underutilised he was throughout that crossover, and I would've much preferred it better if his role was more prominent. But, I must admit, the moment itself is very well done. Encouraging the other heroes and sparing Arrowverse Barry to continue and fight on with his life is a noble sacrifice, hence the COIE comic book-inspired ending.

Although I don't quite agree that the final scene is a fitting conclusion for Earth-90 Barry's story, it's still more heartfelt compared to the underwhelming way Keaton's Batman died in The Flash. So there's that.

(https://i.imgur.com/QB1Dkiu.jpg)

I love the influence that Burton's Batman had on that show, but the producers were smart enough to have Barry as the stable independent single guy who doesn't let his tragedy define him. Because if Shipp was too introverted like Keaton was in B89, the show may not have lasted as long as it did.

Just a random thought I wanted to share.