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Gotham Plaza => Iceberg Lounge => Comic Film & TV => Topic started by: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 29 Nov 2017, 14:43

Title: Avengers: Infinity War
Post by: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 29 Nov 2017, 14:43
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZfuNTqbHE8
Title: Re: Avengers: Infinity War
Post by: Travesty on Wed, 29 Nov 2017, 16:09
I think it looks great. The MCU hasn't failed me yet. I can't wait to see it.

On a side note: I doubt you'll hear how obvious the CGI is for Hulk and Thanos.  :P
Title: Re: Avengers: Infinity War
Post by: thecolorsblend on Wed, 29 Nov 2017, 21:13
I can't tell if I dislike the MCU these days because of the MCU or if I dislike the MCU these days because the MCU's fans.

Whatever. I guess if someone else buys my ticket, I'll see it. Otherwise this isn't much of a priority.

Still, kudos to them for making a serious trailer. Only half of a joke. Pretty remarkable for the MCU as we near the end of 2017.
Title: Re: Avengers: Infinity War
Post by: The Dark Knight on Thu, 30 Nov 2017, 02:10
A year ago I couldn't imagine saying this, but I don't care if the DCEU ends. In fact, it probably needs to. I can understand where Affleck is coming from if he feels unmotivated. Consider his point of view. He was shamed over BvS. Then he returns for the sequel and films that content, where he no doubt gave it his all. But then he's called BACK to reshoot MORE content.

Pulling this trick on an already weary mind isn't going to make him feel any better, or any more confident in the studio's abilities. If some claim he sleepwalked through the film you know why. It becomes a chore, and the film was critically smashed and underperformed at the box office anyway.

Apart from BvS, I haven't liked the Batman brand's output in recent times.

Return of the Caped Crsuaders? Meh.
Batman v Two Face? Meh.
Batman and Harley Quinn? Meh.
Lego Batman Movie? Meh.
Justice League? Meh.

I feel like the film/animation brand has lost its edge and it probably needs a good break. The only other products I've enjoyed have been Arkham Knight and the Telltale series. I haven't seen a Marvel film in a long time, and I won't start now. But good on them - I have to say that. WB have fumbled around in the dark like amateurs, and that's a big shame.
Title: Re: Avengers: Infinity War
Post by: thecolorsblend on Thu, 30 Nov 2017, 03:43
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 30 Nov  2017, 02:10A year ago I couldn't imagine saying this, but I don't care if the DCEU ends. In fact, it probably needs to. I can understand where Affleck is coming from if he feels unmotivated. Consider his point of view. He was shamed over BvS. Then he returns for the sequel and films that content, where he no doubt gave it his all. But then he's called BACK to reshoot MORE content.

Pulling this trick on an already weary mind isn't going to make him feel any better, or any more confident in the studio's abilities. If some claim he sleepwalked through the film you know why. It becomes a chore, and the film was critically smashed and underperformed at the box office anyway.
I think WB started off with the smart move. Be different from Marvel. MOS turned a profit. BVS turned a profit. JL is where they changed horses midstream. And barring a miracle (which is always possible, I suppose), it will tank.

I'm prepared to call the DCEU up to this point a noble failure. And if nothing else, I got two decent Superman movies and one awesome Batman movie out of it.

Artists generally know what they're doing. Maybe next time WB will have a little more faith rather than panic over a vocal minority's temper tantrum.

End of the day, Batman is bigger than Affleck. Batman will survive this. I love Affleck in the role and desperately want him to hang on. But after what he's been put through, I understand. He doesn't need this. He's got a resurgent career without all the grief.
Title: Re: Avengers: Infinity War
Post by: The Dark Knight on Thu, 30 Nov 2017, 09:10
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 30 Nov  2017, 03:43
I think WB started off with the smart move. Be different from Marvel. MOS turned a profit. BVS turned a profit.
Yep. I love MoS and BvS. They're fantastic films in terms of visuals, music and themes. But it's abundantly clear to me that those days are over. It's actually quite hard to watch them now knowing how everything turned out afterwards.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 30 Nov  2017, 03:43
JL is where they changed horses midstream.
I think they damaged the integrity of the new universe starting with Suicide Squad. The film was clearly going to be much darker. With each trailer the film's title cards became brighter and brighter. They reshot 'controversial' Joker footage and then insulted out intelligence by saying not much was changed. They pulled the same trick with Justice League. If they stuck to their guns and didn't order reshoots I'd be a very happy camper. But that's not what happened.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 30 Nov  2017, 03:43
Artists generally know what they're doing. Maybe next time WB will have a little more faith rather than panic over a vocal minority's temper tantrum.
Yep. Do you tell Picasso how to paint? Do you tell Elvis how to sing? No. You trust in their abilities. Hiring people and then interfering with their vision annoys everyone involved. Meddling is the biggest problem with WB because I'm convinced SS and JL would've been solid films if the studio didn't get cold feet.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 30 Nov  2017, 03:43
End of the day, Batman is bigger than Affleck. Batman will survive this. I love Affleck in the role and desperately want him to hang on. But after what he's been put through, I understand. He doesn't need this. He's got a resurgent career without all the grief.
The year break before Aquaman hits cinemas is for the best.
Title: Re: Avengers: Infinity War
Post by: The Laughing Fish on Thu, 30 Nov 2017, 11:06
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 30 Nov  2017, 03:43
End of the day, Batman is bigger than Affleck. Batman will survive this. I love Affleck in the role and desperately want him to hang on. But after what he's been put through, I understand. He doesn't need this. He's got a resurgent career without all the grief.

Call me unreasonable, but I disagree. You don't give fans false hope and say you're committed to the role, but then call it quits because you're upset over two-faced, hypocritical twat bloggers and critics are taking shots at your work. They should be irrelevant.

It would be understandable if he was agitated by WB's interference, or deeply personal reasons affecting his motivation, of course. It would be even more understandable if there are circumstances that go beyond his control that causes his decision to quit e.g. the studio pulls the plug on the franchise, which wouldn't surprise me as JL is not doing that great at the box office and Aquaman doesn't work out.

But if Affleck goes because he got a bruised ego over a "vocal minority" of naysayers, I'd honestly lose respect for him. That's just admitting defeat when there's no need to.

As for this Infinity War trailer? Never thought I'd ever say I'll lower my expectations to an Avengers movie before, but my mood is coming off from being very disappointed by two of the films that came out this year (I have still not seen Thor Ragnarok, and don't ever intend to). If it promises to be this grand as it appears in this trailer, great. But if it lets me down and dumbs everything down with stupid unfunny gags as we saw this year, count me out.
Title: Re: Avengers: Infinity War
Post by: Silver Nemesis on Thu, 30 Nov 2017, 12:31
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 30 Nov  2017, 09:10
Yep. Do you tell Picasso how to paint?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ1oM_EdVpQ
Title: Re: Avengers: Infinity War
Post by: The Dark Knight on Fri, 1 Dec 2017, 00:57
Good video. Very true....and here's another one - do you tell Silver Nemesis how to post? Nope. You let him work his magic.
Title: Re: Avengers: Infinity War
Post by: thecolorsblend on Fri, 1 Dec 2017, 04:10
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Thu, 30 Nov  2017, 11:06Call me unreasonable, but I disagree. You don't give fans false hope and say you're committed to the role, but then call it quits because you're upset over two-faced, hypocritical twat bloggers and critics are taking shots at your work. They should be irrelevant.

...

But if Affleck goes because he got a bruised ego over a "vocal minority" of naysayers, I'd honestly lose respect for him. That's just admitting defeat when there's no need to.
Everybody has a breaking point. You can only be verbally abused for so long before you say forget about it and move on.

We're talking about people who get paid millions of dollars to play dress-up for a living. I realize that. But at the same time, abuse is abuse. A man's got to know his limitations. I'll miss Affleck if he calls it a day. But I'll understand.
Title: Re: Avengers: Infinity War
Post by: riddler on Fri, 1 Dec 2017, 07:23
On television I think DC is producing the better shows. Marvel has 3 failures (Inhumans, the Gifted, Peggy Carter) to DC's 2 (Constantine and Powerless)Now daredevil is better than any of the current DC shows but on average, the DC shows are higher quality than the other netflix shows (I'm not far enough into the Punisher to give it a grade but it looks promising). And none of the current slate of DC shows are as bad as the Iron fist, not to mention how DC's team up shows are better than the Defenders.

On the big screen though, how on earth could anyone say the DCEU is holding a candle to the MCU? Nitpick at little things such as the reliance on jokes or 'fun' Marvel doesn't have these production problems with every film requiring a directors cut to give us a glimpse of what should have been. Three times they had issues with actors and all three times handled it with aplomb; Samuel L. Jacksons participation was in doubt going forward after the first Iron Man so Marvel locked him up to a nine picture contract. Terrance Howard and Edward Norton became too difficult to deal with and yet both times the actors replacing them were better received. You don't hear people gazing into the stars on how Civil War with Terrance Howard or Ragnarok with Ed Norton would have been because we're glad to have Don Cheadle and Mark Ruffalo as Rhodey and Banner. And these were all within the first two films so clearly Marvel has learned how to keep continuity with it's actors. Meanwhile the rumour mill on Affleck's status in the DCEU moves as fast as the Enquirer.

Those rooting for the DCEU to continue (and I'm one of them) should be rooting for Affleck to stay in the role. The DCEU as it stands is crafted and built around Batman. Affleck may well be the lynchpin holding the DCEU together and his departure may signal the end.


As for Infinity War, I hadn't been as hyped about this one due to the drop in quality in Age of Ultron but seeing the trailer got me built up again. I do worry about it being over stuffed due to the amount of characters but this is being split into two films (which should have happened with Justice League).
Title: Re: Avengers: Infinity War
Post by: Silver Nemesis on Fri, 1 Dec 2017, 22:56
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri,  1 Dec  2017, 00:57
Good video. Very true....and here's another one - do you tell Silver Nemesis how to post? Nope. You let him work his magic.

I'm afraid I've sold out. From now, all my posts will be subject to the approval of focus groups and market research analysts. I will not express any opinion unless its tone is calibrated towards the popular consensus and/or corporate interests.

Hence forth, I shall be known as... Shill-ver Nemesis.

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/7c0402f3bfa69e26a44873fedf0e8e0b/tenor.gif)
Title: Re: Avengers: Infinity War
Post by: The Dark Knight on Sat, 2 Dec 2017, 01:31
Quote from: riddler on Fri,  1 Dec  2017, 07:23
Those rooting for the DCEU to continue (and I'm one of them) should be rooting for Affleck to stay in the role. The DCEU as it stands is crafted and built around Batman. Affleck may well be the lynchpin holding the DCEU together and his departure may signal the end.
The worst case scenario for Batfleck is if the DCEU ends altogether. A better scenario would be if Affleck appears in Flashpoint, where he's 'de-aged' into his replacement. And then Matt Reeves starts his trilogy with that new actor. I think that's what could end up happening. At the end of the day I'm a DC guy and I'll always be a DC guy. But as a big Snyder fan I'm hurt by the amount of scenes removed. I'll be waiting to see what they do with the home video release. I'm sure it'll be another Suicide Squad extended cut situation...which would be better than nothing I suppose.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Fri,  1 Dec  2017, 22:56
I'm afraid I've sold out. From now, all my posts will be subject to the approval of focus groups and market research analysts. I will not express any opinion unless its tone is calibrated towards the popular consensus and/or corporate interests.

Hence forth, I shall be known as... Shill-ver Nemesis.

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/7c0402f3bfa69e26a44873fedf0e8e0b/tenor.gif)

(https://shnakebite91.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/sad-joker.gif)

Don't say any more. This isn't true. It CANNOT be true.

Oh, and what do I want for Christmas? Colors' posting privileges in the general discussion threads to be RE-INSTATED.
Title: Re: Avengers: Infinity War
Post by: thecolorsblend on Sat, 2 Dec 2017, 02:21
The Wayne Pepsi gif made me lol. I needed a laugh today.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat,  2 Dec  2017, 01:31Oh, and what do I want for Christmas? Colors' posting privileges in the general discussion threads to be RE-INSTATED.
Not much chance of that, I don't think.
Title: Re: Avengers: Infinity War
Post by: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 2 Dec 2017, 03:08
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri,  1 Dec  2017, 04:10
Everybody has a breaking point. You can only be verbally abused for so long before you say forget about it and move on.

We're talking about people who get paid millions of dollars to play dress-up for a living. I realize that. But at the same time, abuse is abuse. A man's got to know his limitations. I'll miss Affleck if he calls it a day. But I'll understand.

Hey, it would definitely be understandable if Affleck suffered from similar circumstances as Snyder did. The fact that Snyder still gets abused after disclosing his personal loss is outrageous and utterly despicable; in fact, Snyder even admitted he wanted to keep it a secret because he didn't want the vultures to take potshots at his loss. But I think anybody with a conscience and an ounce of compassion accepts his decision, and the same would be said if Affleck, or any other actor in this franchise, had the same experience.

But as I said, quitting just because of these pigs for their pathetic, hypocritical tirades only enables them. Scumbags like that Rotten Tomatoes editor-in-chief must be reviled for declaring a cast and crew should punch each other in the face for making a movie. Not to have their egos bolstered if the main star leaves. Because if that were to happen, that would only validate the narrative created by these pigs that the DCEU is utterly worthless. They ought to be fought against, not to concede defeat and let the fans down.

With that said, I guess it's a sad indictment of the entertainment industry nowadays. Not only is the business is rife with sexual abuse, it's also a tacit advocate of bullying, both behind closed doors and among the critic community. Particularly bullying those who made certain creative choices, even though they gave other directors a pass for doing the same thing or worse.

One of these days, I'll give up on mainstream cinema altogether. Absolute degenerates of the highest order.

Quote from: riddler on Fri,  1 Dec  2017, 07:23
On the big screen though, how on earth could anyone say the DCEU is holding a candle to the MCU? Nitpick at little things such as the reliance on jokes or 'fun' Marvel doesn't have these production problems with every film requiring a directors cut to give us a glimpse of what should have been.

I've been a fan of the MCU for six years, but as I said before, their over-reliance on cheap humour nowadays is hurting their films. But if Black Panther and Infinity War turn out as half as good as The Winter Soldier or even the Phase One films, I'll be delighted. Time will tell.
Title: Re: Avengers: Infinity War
Post by: The Joker on Thu, 7 Dec 2017, 01:10

I honestly can't say the teaser did a whole hell of a lot in getting me excited about seeing Avengers: Infinity War.

Maybe it's because of my growing indifference, or my memories of reading Marvel comics back in the 1990's and always feeling very passive on the story line itself, or it may just be the fact that the two Avengers movies we have now aren't films I tend to want to re-visit all that much.

Given the nature of the story this movie is taking inspiration from, I would assume the tone will be less comedically cheerful than what the MCU typically provides, but to what degree? As it's not too difficult to imagine all of these character's taking turns making sarcastic/snarky quips all throughout the "Infinity War". Especially so after watching the recent Thor Ragnorak movie. Which was intentionally more comedic than that other Thor & Hulk team up movie, "The Incredible Hulk Returns" from the late 1980's!
Title: Re: Avengers: Infinity War
Post by: The Laughing Fish on Thu, 7 Dec 2017, 11:57
Quote from: The Joker on Thu,  7 Dec  2017, 01:10

I honestly can't say the teaser did a whole hell of a lot in getting me excited about seeing Avengers: Infinity War.

Maybe it's because of my growing indifference, or my memories of reading Marvel comics back in the 1990's and always feeling very passive on the story line itself, or it may just be the fact that the two Avengers movies we have now aren't films I tend to want to re-visit all that much.


I can still watch the first Avengers film more than once. Age of Ultron? Not so much. I tried to watch it again last year, and I found it to be a chore. It has some good parts in it, but I find the film too boring and an inferior rehash of the first film.

Quote from: The Joker on Thu,  7 Dec  2017, 01:10
Given the nature of the story this movie is taking inspiration from, I would assume the tone will be less comedically cheerful than what the MCU typically provides, but to what degree? As it's not too difficult to imagine all of these character's taking turns making sarcastic/snarky quips all throughout the "Infinity War". Especially so after watching the recent Thor Ragnorak movie. Which was intentionally more comedic than that other Thor & Hulk team up movie, "The Incredible Hulk Returns" from the late 1980's!

I'd like to think the film will buck the trend, but then again, the trailer for Age of Ultron had a dark and ominous tone too, and the film ended being too safe than what was promised. More so with Iron Man 3. But who knows, Infinity War is supposed to up the stakes, surely Marvel can't cop out with lazy comedy now.
Title: Re: Avengers: Infinity War
Post by: The Dark Knight on Thu, 7 Dec 2017, 12:54
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat,  2 Dec  2017, 02:21
The Wayne Pepsi gif made me lol. I needed a laugh today.
I'm always up for a laugh. But Pepsi isn't better than Coke. That's where I er, draw the line.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat,  2 Dec  2017, 01:31Oh, and what do I want for Christmas? Colors' posting privileges in the general discussion threads to be RE-INSTATED.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sat,  2 Dec  2017, 02:21
Not much chance of that, I don't think.
At first I just wanted my two front teeth. But as you know, I'm always thinking of other people. I'm nice like that. I was sitting by the campfire and remembered your posting privileges being revoked. I thought this ain't fair man. This ain't right man. This ain't (insert some other word) man.

Anyway, my fellow smelly BO'ers, I probably won't be around that much from here on out. I'm going to be spending time in New York and Washington DC the next couple of months. So if I don't post often for a while you'll know why. And with that, I wish Merry Christmas to all and goodnight.
Title: Re: Avengers: Infinity War
Post by: Silver Nemesis on Thu, 18 Jan 2018, 00:31
(https://s18.postimg.org/jfm2cbyih/daredevil_infinity_war.png)
https://movieweb.com/infinity-war-movie-daredevil-cameo-lego-set/

I'd love it if this was included in the movie. It would mark the first time the theatrical side of the MCU had bothered to acknowledge Daredevil's existence. Wishful thinking on my part, but what if Easter eggs like this were paving the way for the Defenders to appear in the Infinity War sequel? Marvel Studios must know the fans are getting sick of the Netflix characters being ignored by the films. If they truly want Infinity War to be epic, then they need to include Marvel's greatest hero. Even if it's just a brief cameo.
Title: Re: Avengers: Infinity War
Post by: thecolorsblend on Thu, 18 Jan 2018, 04:43
I'd settle for one or more of the Defenders being approached by the Avengers with an offer and then the Defender(s) decline. I imagine they would all have real and legitimate reasons for saying thanks but no thanks. But simply including them as one-day cameos where it's at least explained WHY they're not around would go a long way.

Then again, part of me kinda likes how the Netflixverse is its own thing. Marvel was that way, especially through the 2000's, where there were sometimes informal boundaries around certain characters or teams. There was a time when Marvel had "the street-level books" which didn't really overlap with the others all that much, although they frequently overlapped with each other.
Title: Re: Avengers: Infinity War
Post by: riddler on Mon, 29 Jan 2018, 18:57
With all the super hero team ups going on, I for one relish seeing the lone wolf hero ride solo. It does alleviate the danger and make situations less thrilling when you know that heroes have teams of friends to save them. That's why I think Flash and Arrow would be better without the heroes having entire teams behind them communicating via Bluetooth and instead fighting their battles alone. These characters struggle to stand out in their own shows.

I wouldn't be opposed to the cinematic side acknowledging the TV side, which hasn't yet happened but I could see why Marvel isn't doing it. The MCU has been going for 10 years now and as it is, it is hard for movie goers to keep up. Consider THOR ragnarok which featured two main heroes and essentially has five prequel films (thor 1 and 2, the incredible hulk, avengers 1 and 2). Marvel is asking a lot of their fans being this deep into the MCU and don't forget a big chunk of their target market are kids. It's hard to keep up even for people like us who live and breathe these movies. It would be too much to ask the fans to keep up on the movies AND TV shows especially since not everybody has access to Netflix.

I'm fine with some references back and forth but I think it could be a mistake having any major characters cross over for more than a cameo.
Title: Re: Avengers: Infinity War
Post by: The Laughing Fish on Fri, 16 Mar 2018, 14:45
Trailer 2 is now online.

https://youtu.be/NWepvH6LnEw
Title: Re: Avengers: Infinity War
Post by: The Laughing Fish on Mon, 19 Mar 2018, 12:52
Official theatrical poster is released. Not a fan to be honest, reminds me of the garish Thor Ragnarok poster. The running time is 156 minutes.

(https://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMjMxNjY2MDU1OV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTgwNzY1MTUwNTM@._V1_SY1000_CR0,0,674,1000_AL_.jpg)
Title: Re: Avengers: Infinity War
Post by: Azrael on Mon, 19 Mar 2018, 20:22
It's fitting that of all the heroes, Tony Stark is dominant in the composition. Favreau's Iron Man was the beginning and Tony Stark as played by Robert Downey is arguably MCU's MVP. This summer marks the 10th year anniversary of Iron Man. Of all Marvel posters, this one looks like it could be art for a Marvel Vs. Capcom type of game.
Title: Re: Avengers: Infinity War
Post by: The Laughing Fish on Wed, 25 Apr 2018, 11:16
I watched Infinity War tonight. Since I don't want to spoil anything, you can safely read what I have to say below.

Thanos stole the show, and certainly lived up to the hype. Much better than I had expected. He's not only the best character in the entire movie, he's perhaps the best villain in the MCU to date.

But I have a lot of problems with the rest of the movie. In terms of tone, it's a mess. After Black Panther steered back towards treating the material with dramatic weight not really seen since Captain America: The Winter Soldier, the latest MCU film returns to the habit of having as much jokes as possible. Because of this, some of the Avengers, and especially the Guardians of the Galaxy, are a parody of themselves. It's idiotic. Worse, the film suddenly shifts back to a more sombre and serious tone, making the mood really inconsistent. This was a criticism some people had for Captain America: Civil War, but it's much worse here.

That's all I want to say for now. Lower your expectations, and you'll likely enjoy it more than I did.
Title: Re: Avengers: Infinity War
Post by: Travesty on Fri, 27 Apr 2018, 17:08
That sucks to hear. I personally loved the movie.
Title: Re: Avengers: Infinity War
Post by: Silver Nemesis on Sat, 28 Apr 2018, 19:45
I find it difficult to judge Infinity War as a self-contained narrative since it's clearly only fifty percent of the total story. It could retroactively benefit or suffer depending on the quality of the next Avengers film, and until I've seen that I won't know for sure how successful the first movie is in laying the foundations for its successor. That said, my initial reaction to the latest Avengers film is positive. It's a good movie and I enjoyed it. But as with every popcorn flick, it has its problems.

The most difficult hurdle to surmount with this kind of ensemble story is ensuring every character has something to do and that no one is just there for the sake of being there. I'm not a fan of Joss Whedon, but I do give the guy credit for successfully balancing the roster in The Avengers (2012) and giving each hero his or her own individual subplot. Infinity War has an even more difficult obstacle to overcome thanks to the inflated number of players involved. Rather than try to give each of these protagonists their own arc – which would be impossible to do in the film's two and a half hour runtime – the screenwriters made the wise decision to divide them up into small groups, thereby reducing the overall number of plot threads and effectively streamlining the narrative. Structurally it works. And it's probably the only way they could have balanced having so many characters in a single film.

This does not however mitigate the fact that the film is bloated. There are too many characters, there's too much location jumping, and by the film's final act I was struggling to keep track of all the different planets and supporting characters. I had particular difficulty distinguishing Thanos' henchmen from one another as they were all similar in appearance and more or less interchangeable in function. The movie is definitely not what I would call 'a character piece', but fortunately this is where the groundwork Marvel established in their earlier films starts to pay dividends. Most of these characters have already been given proper introductions in their own solo movies, and because of this the plot is able to hit the ground running without ever losing momentum. The downside is that if you've never seen an MCU film until now, your chances of keeping pace with the story are remote at best. Making this your entry point into the MCU would be like leaping into a serialised TV show with the series finale. And that's another reason why it's hard to judge Infinity War as a standalone film.

The quality of action is exactly what you'd expect from a modern CBM. The CGI in these movies always leaves me cold and I found my attention wondering a little during some of the prolonged battle sequences. I was also a bit irked by the inconsistency in strength levels displayed during the fights. Certain villains are strong enough to manhandle superpowered opponents like Vision, but struggle against human adversaries such as Black Widow. In the original comic it was explained that Thanos intentionally held back against the good guys in order to impress Death, and that a subconscious part of him wanted to be defeated and thus created windows in his defences for his enemies to exploit. In the film no such explanation is given. So why do characters like Star-Lord and Captain America survive going up against a villain strong enough to ragdoll the Incredible Hulk? Are certain Avengers protected by plot armour? Or is Thanos just pulling his punches? I'm inclined to think it's a bit of both.

Thanos does kill (SPOILERS) Loki, perhaps in retribution for his failure during the first Avengers film (end SPOILERS). But in general, the MCU Thanos is portrayed as surprisingly merciful. He asserts his power to an extent necessary to incapacitate his foes, but avoids killing needlessly. The big exception is the scene where he (SPOILERS) kills half of all life in the universe, (end SPOILERS) though his motives for doing this are derived from a psychotic sense of righteousness rather than crude malice. He expresses the belief that death will select victims at random, echoing the nihilistic outlook of Jim Starlin's Thanos in the comics. He's essentially a cosmic-level analogue to Wilson Fisk; a powerful and ruthless ideologue who is willing to do the most awful things in the pursuit of what he perceives to be a greater good. He's a three-dimensional bad guy, has an interesting ideological motive and poses a serious threat to the heroes. He surpassed my expectations and deserves a place near the top of the MCU villain leader boards (Kingpin still holds the top spot for me, but I might rank Thanos in second place).

I never felt bored watching Infinity War, though some elements were repetitious. There's an interesting scenario in the first half of the film where (SPOILERS) Gamora makes Star-Lord promise to kill her if she's taken prisoner by Thanos. (end SPOILERS) Later in the film there's an almost identical scenario involving Vision and Scarlet Witch. Both scenes have dramatically impactful payoffs, and the symmetry between them may have been intentional. But even so, scenes like those highlight the fact that many of the plot threads in Infinity War amount to the same thing – the heroes must stop Thanos acquiring the Infinity Gems. It's a very simple story told in a circuitous, overstuffed manner. But then so was the comic on which the film is based, and the movie does a decent job of capturing the cosmic scope and atmosphere of that story. James Gunn wrote the dialogue for the Guardians of the Galaxy characters, and his contribution helps maintains a sense of tonal consistency with their earlier appearances. Every player feels true to their established characterisation and the Russo brothers do a good job of balancing the different tones associated with them. The soundtrack also makes prominent use of leitmotifs to reference the earlier MCU films, and there are some sequences where you can clearly hear Silvestri alluding to his own score for Predator (1987).

One minor quibble is that Captain America doesn't have an awful lot to do in the storyline except fight and suggest the Avengers seek help from the Wakandans. This didn't bother me too much, as it was clearly the filmmakers' intent to let other characters take centre stage for now so the Phase 1 heroes can step up in the next film. As far as foreshadowing the next movie goes, I was surprised that (SPOILERS) Adam Warlock didn't make an appearance. But in light of Doctor Strange's line about Tony's salvation being the only way to defeat Thanos – which clearly has something to do with his vision of the future – I'm now wondering if Warlock will even show up at all. Will Iron Man be the one to defeat Thanos in the MCU? Speaking of Doctor Strange's vision, if he saw millions of different scenarios play out, why didn't he foresee Star-Lord screwing up their plan to wrest the Infinity Gauntlet from Thanos? (end SPOILERS)

That's all I've got to say about Infinity War for the time being. I might come back to this thread when I've had more time to think about it, but for now I give it the thumbs up. Watching this movie is like eating an entire bag of sweets. You look at the packet and think there's no way you can fit all that sugar into your body, but then you prove yourself wrong to the detriment of your metabolism. It's hardly fine cuisine, but it gives you exactly what the packaging promises – a pleasantly diverting rollercoaster that demands nothing of your intellect and appeals to your appetite for the spectacular. Infinity War is not the best MCU film by any means, but I'd rank it amongst the better entries in the franchise. If nothing else, the epic scale of the film is worth experiencing on the big screen.
Title: Re: Avengers: Infinity War
Post by: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 2 May 2018, 19:00
Infinity War has now grossed over $800 million in its first week, and it hasn't even opened in China yet! If this keeps up, it's on course to become the highest grossing superhero film of all time.

Returning to the film itself, I was surprised to learn it wasn't (SPOILERS) Hugo Weaving playing the Red Skull. I knew Weaving had expressed a disinterest in reprising the role, but the chap who replaced him did such a convincing job that I didn't realise they'd recast the part until the end credits. (End SPOILERS) I don't know if they're planning to have him return in the next film, but if he does I hope he'll get at least one scene with Cap.

A lot of people have been pointing out an interesting flaw in the logic of this film's plot. In the original comic, Thanos wanted to exterminate half of all life in the universe as a way of impressing Death. In the movie, he wants to kill half of all life as a way of reducing the universal demand on limited resources. But if the Infinity Gauntlet grants him unlimited godlike power, then instead of reducing the rate of consumption to match the available resources, why not simply increase the resources to meet the consumer demand? He could have just clicked his fingers and doubled the amount of food and housing available in the universe.

I suppose you could argue that, from Thanos' insane perspective at least, such a solution might appear a temporary fix. If he doubled the universe's wealth, then in time the population would eventually increase to consume it. And if the Pareto principle holds true, then the distribution of newly created resources would be monopolised by the most powerful 20% of the population anyway, meaning the inequalities he's trying to remedy would still exist (though randomly killing 50% of the population would not eliminate such inequalities either). Perhaps Thanos saw his own strategy as a more permanent solution to the problem as it had apparently worked on Zen-Whoberi. Then again, maybe we shouldn't try to apply logic to the motives of a nihilistic lunatic. He is the Mad Titan, after all.
Title: Re: Avengers: Infinity War
Post by: thecolorsblend on Sun, 6 May 2018, 21:26
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sat, 28 Apr  2018, 19:45I was surprised that (SPOILERS) Adam Warlock didn't make an appearance. But in light of Doctor Strange's line about Tony's salvation being the only way to defeat Thanos – which clearly has something to do with his vision of the future – I'm now wondering if Warlock will even show up at all. Will Iron Man be the one to defeat Thanos in the MCU? Speaking of Doctor Strange's vision, if he saw millions of different scenarios play out, why didn't he foresee Star-Lord screwing up their plan to wrest the Infinity Gauntlet from Thanos? (end SPOILERS)
My view of that was that how the film played out was the "victory" that was foreseen. By that, I mean that there was a scenario where the least amount of harm was played out... which is how the movie itself plays out. The other outcomes resulted in far greater levels of death and devastation than what ultimately happened. The way the movie played out was literally the best case scenario.
Title: Re: Avengers: Infinity War
Post by: The Joker on Sun, 6 May 2018, 23:36

Just got back from watching Avengers: Infinity War.

Well, it's essentially what one would now come to expect from the Action/Comedy genre that is Disney's MCU. Lots of action. Lots of one-liners, wisecracks, and snark. Tonially shifting, literally, at a whim, and a abundance of conveniences that are there to allow character's to "have their moment" within a bloated narrative. In short, there's alot that I agree with when it comes to The Laughing Fish, and Silver Nemesis' criticisms of "Infinity War".

You can't knock success, and it's quite clear that people are eating this up quicker than a fat turkey on Thanksigiving, but outside of Thanos being a rather "interesting" MCU villain, which is rather surprising at this stage, the film itself left me feeling "meh".

The funny thing is I remember something about the Nova Corps (along with Glenn Close) and one of the infinity stones being kept on whatever planet they were on. Now to me, that would suggest a pretty good setup for Thanos' big introduction in the film, and an early demonstration of Thanos' power. Rather than lamely introducing Thanos in the film having already kicked the remaining Asgardians when they're already down is hardly the same.

Speaking of the use of Thanos in "Infinity War", there's no way you can tell me that his motivation doesn't fly in the face of the "Courting Death" line at the end of Avengers 1, which I believe was from the comic book storyline where he literally wanted to court a female Death (hence killing billions being on the agenda in order to get her attention). Oh well, it was only a after-credits scene, I shouldn't be too hung up on it. Even though it was the audience's introduction to the character to begin with ....

Speaking of lead in's ... I also find it ironic that one of the heroes with the least screen time is Bucky, who was such a big deal in the last Cap movie and got the teaser lead-into this film at the end of Black Panther. All that build-up, and...  he barely showed up and then died.

Oh, and -- Tom Holland did a decent enough impression of David Tennant's "I don't want to go" line from Doctor Who.

Oh, I am a cruel one.

Also, I felt that the whole Scarlett Witch/Vision relationship was rushed WAY TOO FAST for this. I vaguely remember that in "Civil War", they were on the cusp something romantic, but nothing considered a solid foundation for a relationship. I get that time has passed, but the lack of on-screen exposition for this relationship left me feeling indifferent. Despite the pairing actually being one of my personal favorites in comic books.

All in all, it is what it is. Another MCU film that continues along with it's successful formula. Nothing groundbreaking.

Title: Re: Avengers: Infinity War
Post by: thecolorsblend on Mon, 7 May 2018, 01:50
Strange how ten years ago the idea of a live action superhero team up was technically still a pipe dream. Now it's Tuesday.

I can deal with the character saturation in AIW though. It's an Avengers movie so it's an ensemble piece already. Going forward though, Marvel really does need to scale back the team ups and whatnot. It's getting a little tired.
Title: Re: Avengers: Infinity War
Post by: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 12 May 2018, 10:36
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon,  7 May  2018, 01:50
Strange how ten years ago the idea of a live action superhero team up was technically still a pipe dream. Now it's Tuesday.

I can deal with the character saturation in AIW though. It's an Avengers movie so it's an ensemble piece already. Going forward though, Marvel really does need to scale back the team ups and whatnot. It's getting a little tired.

I'm tired of Avengers movies altogether. The only one that really shone was the first one because, in many ways, it served as a sequel to the Iron Man, Captain America and Thor movies, with the other characters introduced in cameo roles. Let's face it, fewer characters resulted a more balanced screen time per each cast member, more or less. It doesn't mean Avengers 2012 is a cinematic masterpiece, but it resulted a much tighter story, in my opinion.

But the sequels are getting bloated with far too many characters, to the point it even undermines others. For example, the only reason why Ultron was much weaker in AOU was because he needed to create that vibranium body, which ultimately became Vision. Now as good as Vision was in that movie, I reckon it made Ultron less threatening than he should have been, and the film was already overstuffed with the introduction of Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver.

Infinity War, as I said before, was a mess. In retrospect, Guardians of the Galaxy are probably the worst thing to have ever happened to the MCU, including the half-assed introduction of Spider-Man. Even though I enjoyed the first one as a standalone, I couldn't stand Vol. 2 and the comedy has gotten progressively worse as time goes by. Spider-Man is nothing more but a gushing, pop culture referencing fool and brings absolutely nothing to the MCU, despite the hype and praise by the fanboys.

Which brings me to my next point: SPOILERS in white.

When in doubt, Marvel just happily turns characters into complete morons. The way Bruce Banner/Hulk was depicted in this film was utterly pathetic. Is THAT really the best you can do, Marvel? ? I understand Hulk was afraid after his defeat to Thanos with pride and ego badly damaged, which presumably and potentially allows him to have a character arc in the next movie, but that doesn't justify turning Banner, a troubled yet intelligent scientist into a bumbling buffoon. It got to a point where Shuri, T'Challa's sister, putting him in his place in how to treat the injured Vision, and all Banner could say is "um...we didn't really think of that before". This must be the worst performance I've ever seen from Mark Ruffalo. I've heard he was just as bad to watch in Ragnarok too, which makes me glad I never watched that rubbish. A massive backwards step from his first two Avengers appearances. Seriously, after watching Edward Norton's troubled take on the Hulk back in 2008, I would never have imagined Marvel would happily treat the character like a joke.

As for the ending. The marketing and the way Marvel Studios have announced their plans for future movies is exactly the same mistake that WB has made when announcing the DCEU's schedule in advance back in early 2016. To me, Superman's death didn't have a big emotional impact because the studio already spoiled his revival by announcing Justice League would be made. I'm not taking away Superman's death plotwise, it served as an important turning point for humanity embracing what it truly lost and helped Batman and Wonder Woman come out of their shells; I'm just talking about the media press taking away the emotion of the moment when it happened, at least for me.

The same thing happened here. It's already announced there would be sequels for Spider-Man, GOTG, Black Panther before IW, so their deaths didn't have an impact on me at all. Actually, I would've preferred if some of the original movie Avengers had perished instead, and the new additions like Doctor Strange, Black Panther, Scarlet Witch and so on have to carry on the legacy to get back at Thanos. It would've been more risky and imaginative. Instead, we have the 2012 team needing to regroup, but I just don't have any emotional investment for it. It does feel too safe for my liking.
Title: Re: Avengers: Infinity War
Post by: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 8 Dec 2018, 00:05
Quote from: The Joker on Sun,  6 May  2018, 23:36
Speaking of the use of Thanos in "Infinity War", there's no way you can tell me that his motivation doesn't fly in the face of the "Courting Death" line at the end of Avengers 1, which I believe was from the comic book storyline where he literally wanted to court a female Death (hence killing billions being on the agenda in order to get her attention). Oh well, it was only a after-credits scene, I shouldn't be too hung up on it. Even though it was the audience's introduction to the character to begin with ....

I read The Infinity Gauntlet shortly after IW came out, and I totally get what you mean. Unfortunately, I think the storyline with Death would've been too macabre for mainstream audiences. And let's face it, Thanos suffering defeat because he feels he doesn't deserve such power deep down, would've likely earned a massive backlash and ridicule in this meme-obsessed culture we live in. Yes, that comic does a good job exploring how could a villain face defeat against all odds because of such psychological distress, but that level of character study isn't something audiences are interested in, I'm afraid. Like it or not, I think Marvel may have made the right decision to go for the character arc they chose for IW.

Speaking of Thanos in the comics, I read The Thanos Quest during the week - the prequel to The Infinity Gauntlet (both written by Jim Starlin), and basically the movie borrowed ideas from both comics. In TTQ, Thanos explores the universe to steal all the Infinity Gems from six Elders, which is similar to his hunt for the Infinity Stones in the movie. The Collector was the only Elder character who appeared in the movie, which Thanos gets the stone from, as he did in the comic. Another feature that was taken from TTQ was Thanos removing the Infinity Gem from a few of the Elders' foreheads, which was identical to the way he violently takes the Mind Stone off Vision's forehead in the movie. In TIG, the Silver Surfer crashed into Doctor Strange's house and warned him that Thanos was coming, in the movie, it's Bruce Banner instead. And last but not least, the finger snap is obviously taken from TIG.

I got to say, Drax the Destroyer in TIG is even dumber than the movie version we ended up getting. But at least he isn't as annoying compared to what we see of him in the last two movie appearances. I still can't fathom how this character had a good movie debut, only to regress ever since.

For all the comic influences in IW, it's a shame I found the movie to be an annoying, stupid waste of time. It's really become one of my least favourite MCU films, and that's saying something considering how much I disliked GOTG2 and Homecoming. This movie had not only made me lose interest in the sequel, but it made me lose interest in the future of the MCU.
Title: Re: Avengers: Infinity War
Post by: thecolorsblend on Sun, 17 Feb 2019, 15:04
There's no thread for the Captain Marvel movie and I'm too lazy (and risk-averse) to start one. But the tracking for CM is dropping noticeably. Originally, people who sound like they know their stuff were suggesting a $180'ish million opening weekend.

Now, though, the figure is closer to $100 million by some estimates.

The common denominator in all these different predictions is Brie Larson going full SJW/feminist in her media appearances related to the movie. Things have reached such a level that some outlets are predicting this could be the first Marvel movie since 2014 to under-perform.

The expression goes "Get woke, go broke". It seems to be coming true for CM.
Title: Re: Avengers: Infinity War
Post by: Silver Nemesis on Sun, 17 Feb 2019, 20:09
The producers have compared Captain Marvel to a nineties action movie, but so far I've seen nothing to support that analogy. Unless they're referring to Renny Harlin's The Long Kiss Goodnight (1996), which was a tongue-in-cheek female-led action movie set in the nineties and featuring Samuel L. Jackson as the heroine's sidekick. But Brie Larson is no Geena Davis. And banking this movie's success on a sanctimonious uncharismatic SJW like her could prove to be one of the biggest mistakes Marvel Studios has made.

Apparently she's already requesting fewer white males interview her while she's promoting the film:

Quote"About a year ago, I started paying attention to what my press days looked like and the critics reviewing movies, and noticed it appeared to be overwhelmingly white male. So, I spoke to Dr Stacy Smith at the USC Annenberg Inclusion Initiative, who put together a study to confirm that. Moving forward, I decided to make sure my press days were more inclusive."
https://www.cbr.com/captain-marvel-brie-larson-inclusive-press-days/

We know critics will champion Captain Marvel for political reasons, but will audiences be as supportive? I think that's going to depend on Larson – both in terms of how well she performs in the film, and how she behaves while promoting it.
Title: Re: Avengers: Infinity War
Post by: thecolorsblend on Sun, 17 Feb 2019, 20:33
I reserve the right to be wrong but I think White men are a bit fed up with being made into everybody's whipping boy. Considering how White male fans on YouTube are simply asking for non-politicized entertainment and then getting shouted down over it, I think it's a bit of a stretch to think there will be no consequences for Larson's statements.

With things like Ghostbusters 2016, Ocean's 8, The Last Jedi and, now, Captain Marvel, we've seen negative feedback loops where those associated with a movie attack White men, White men attack back, the movie's performance suffers, repeat. The difference in this case is that CM is obviously part of the MCU.

Importing a demonstrable bad publicity strategy into what has been heretofore a virtually untouchable Hollywood juggernaut is plain stupid.
Title: Re: Avengers: Infinity War
Post by: The Laughing Fish on Sun, 17 Mar 2019, 08:27
Speaking of Captain Marvel, there has been a lot of controversy over how it's getting reviewed on Rotten Tomatoes. Users have complained they've had difficulty trying to submit negative reviews for the movie on the website - some saying their reviews get deleted soon after.

It turns out that not only Rotten Tomatoes have been deleting negative reviews they perceive to be coming from "trolls", they've announced they're CHANGING their entire rating system because Captain Marvel was getting a very low "want-to-see" percentage ratio on the website. Apparently, the "not interested" ratings are no longer available on the website.

https://society-reviews.com/2019/02/25/rotten-tomatoes-changes-their-entire-rating-system-after-angry-captain-marvel-fans-complain/

If that's not all, Rotten Tomatoes is looking to manipulate audience feedback even further, with suggestions that it could "eventually tie into the Fandango ticket-purchasing system showing that a reviewer did indeed buy a ticket to that movie before they can review it." Fandango is the parent company that owns Rotten Tomatoes, which funnily enough, the current CEO used to work for Disney. Hmm. But putting that aside for a moment, what about all the users who live outside of the US that use the site, where Fandango isn't available in those markets?

https://society-reviews.com/2019/02/27/rotten-tomatoes-to-make-audience-reviews-more-difficult-following-captain-marvel-backlash/

The audience score for Captain Marvel is also coming under scrutiny. Originally it was around 30 something percent, but apparently it's now bumped up to 50-60%, as an effort by the website to crack down on they deem as fake reviews. Well, I found this particular video of somebody on Twitter who did a breakdown of the scores and claims the website is faking the aggregate audience score.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t52Og_NTH6Y&ab_channel=SCReviews

It gets even juicier when a critic admitted in an interview for SyFy podcast while on the subject of Captain Marvel and other things, acknowledges people in the industry submit fake positive reviews in order to keep their job in reviewing the next move by certain companies, and are forced to "pick their battles".

https://mobile.twitter.com/Dataracer117/status/1103524417190092800?fbclid=IwAR1T0Q90OSm5cHmsh6DsJ2qdr0VLyWVNrbrrjplAwDIpsZ_Xt0TglENs-To

The media have been cheerleading for Captain Marvel, and that includes those hacks from Rotten Tomatoes. I never thought that critics and that website had any credibility to begin with, but their transparent approach in trying to control the narrative behind the critical reception for this movie is rubbing people the wrong way, and making everybody open their eyes they can't be trusted. Some fans are saying they'll quit Marvel after Avengers: Endgame, others are saying they might even skip it. Time will tell if this negative reaction is coming from a minority of disgruntled fans or otherwise, but I doubt this will hurt MCU's next movie financially. Regardless, the MCU already lost goodwill with me awhile ago following the drop in quality of the most Phase 3, and Rotten Tomatoes can go to hell. Especially after they made a tasteless tweet ridiculing Affleck after he announced from his departure from playing Batman.
Title: Re: Avengers: Infinity War
Post by: The Laughing Fish on Sun, 17 Mar 2019, 08:47
A couple of more things to add: Rotten Tomatoes policing audience scores over an MCU movie is nothing new either. Let's not forget they deleted a lot of negative reviews for Black Panther because of alleged trolls trying to hurt the movie.

Finally, putting aside that controversy for a moment, Captain Marvel is coming under fire by some fans because it had apparently retconned a few things in the MCU i.e. how Nick Fury lost his eye, where he got the name of the Avengers Initiative from, and how he acquired the Tesseract. It's also complained by some fans that this movie makes it as if it's trying to undermine Steve Rogers as the most important Avenger to build up Carol Danvers. Most importantly, given that this movie is set in the 90s, I've seen some fans complaining that Nick Fury's co-operation with Carol as they fought the Skrulls, Kree or whoever contradicts his later statements in Avengers 1, where he explains Thor was the reason SHIELD began taking drastic measures with the Tesseract.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bj6yMYaQPrw&ab_channel=CharelduToit

Personally, I don't have an opinion about this, because I haven't watched Captain Marvel, and I have no desire to. But what catches my eye the most, is this video by a fan who claims Kevin Feige drank the SJW Kool-Aid, and fears the MCU is in trouble because Carol Danvers is expected to become the new face of the MCU.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTRqmOkxZQI