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The Batcave => Batman Comics => Graphic Novels => Topic started by: Deffinition on Fri, 21 Apr 2017, 10:00

Title: Deffinition Batman Graphic Novel Reviews
Post by: Deffinition on Fri, 21 Apr 2017, 10:00
Im trying to read through all of the Batman Graphic novels considered canon (even though some have been wiped due to rebirth etc).

So far I'm working through the pre crisis stuff and have a done about 28 so far.

Here's my review of Year One.

I'd love to know whether people agree or not as I've always found the book slightly overrated.

You can check out my thoughts below

Batman Year One Review (http://deffinition.co.uk/batman-year-one-graphic-novel-review/)

Cheers
Title: Re: Batman Year One Graphic Novel Review (Canon Read Through #1)
Post by: The Laughing Fish on Fri, 21 Apr 2017, 10:42
Welcome, and nice review.

Even though Year One is supposed to focus Batman's first year in crimefighting, I regard it as my favourite Gordon story.

As you say, the book focuses with morally questionable people, and Gordon is definitely one of them: from exhibiting his own brand of violence against Flass, to infidelity and at odds about Batman's presence in the city. It definitely doesn't shy away from the complexity for a idealistic cop to find himself stuck and somewhat broken by such a corrupt city.
Title: Re: Batman Year One Graphic Novel Review (Canon Read Through #1)
Post by: Deffinition on Fri, 21 Apr 2017, 11:09
thanks for checking it out! Yeah I love the way everyone is kind of having the break the rules in order to do good overall
Title: Re: Batman Year One Graphic Novel Review (Canon Read Through #1)
Post by: The Dark Knight on Fri, 21 Apr 2017, 11:17
I never really got into Year One. I know it's an important Batman comic and it's good. But there's something about it that bores me. I may be crazy, but that's just my gut instinct. I feel the same way about the animated movie adaption. I always got the impression people always said Year One was the best Batman comic ever because they were expected to say that. I know people could say the same thing about TDK Returns, but I just think there's better stories out there with better action and plot beats. Year One isn't bad. I just find it dull. And I generally prefer endings over beginnings. It's more dramatic.
Title: Re: Batman Year One Graphic Novel Review (Canon Read Through #1)
Post by: thecolorsblend on Fri, 21 Apr 2017, 17:37
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 21 Apr  2017, 11:17I never really got into Year One. I know it's an important Batman comic and it's good. But there's something about it that bores me. I may be crazy, but that's just my gut instinct. I feel the same way about the animated movie adaption. I always got the impression people always said Year One was the best Batman comic ever because they were expected to say that. I know people could say the same thing about TDK Returns, but I just think there's better stories out there with better action and plot beats. Year One isn't bad. I just find it dull. And I generally prefer endings over beginnings. It's more dramatic.
There's a decent foundation being built with Year One. I think of Year One as more of a mission statement than an actual story. "This is the type of stuff we'll be doing from now on. Pretty cool, huh?"

The thing that always bothered me about Year One is a little bit pedestrian in nature, really. It doesn't have a lot of Batman in it. TDKR has lots of Batman running around and kicking everything that even looks like an ass. But Year One has a lot of subplots and intrigue about issues frankly I don't care about. Meanwhile, Mazuchelli's art doesn't feature as much Batman as it should.

As a story, it's a bit disjointed. Bruce is a rube who disguises himself as a crazy war vet and gets the crap beaten out of him. Later, he's a rube dressed in a Batman outfit and gets the crap beaten out of him by burglars. Later, he's BATMAN, he bombs that mansion and scares the fertilizer out of Gotham's 1%.

In retrospect, I kind of wish Year One had been more of a starting point than a general framework. The issues which followed Year One more or less picked up where the issues prior to Year One left off.

But suppose the next issues told the story about Batman's first encounter with the Joker and then organically built Batman's universe from there? What if, rather than having Batman be "up to speed" following Year One, some time was invested on properly building out his world? What if Year One had been a proper reboot rather than a kind of sloppy retcon?

I enjoy Year One as much as the next guy, I guess, but I doubt it's even in my top 10 of Batman stories. Or, if it is, it's as part of that Year One/Long Halloween/Dark Victory oeuvre rather than standing on its own.
Title: Re: Batman Year One Graphic Novel Review (Canon Read Through #1)
Post by: The Laughing Fish on Fri, 21 Apr 2017, 23:51
Once Bruce finally decides what disguise and identity to adopt, the point of Year One is to focus on people's reaction to Batman making his presence felt in Gotham City, rather than having the story revolve only around him. I don't mind it too much personally. If the book didn't do that, Gordon wouldn't get such a fascinating arc.
Title: Re: Batman Year One Graphic Novel Review (Canon Read Through #1)
Post by: thecolorsblend on Sat, 22 Apr 2017, 03:46
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Fri, 21 Apr  2017, 23:51Once Bruce finally decides what disguise and identity to adopt, the point of Year One is to focus on people's reaction to Batman making his presence felt in Gotham City, rather than having the story revolve only around him. I don't mind it too much personally. If the book didn't do that, Gordon wouldn't get such a fascinating arc.
Understandable.

But the narrative gets used by things that don't really matter.

Catwoman is in the story. Why? Nothing much comes out of that. She doesn't contribute much to the other characters, to the rising action or to the conclusion. At best she illustrates the effect Batman is starting to have on Gotham City. That's interesting... but not especially relevant to Year One.

The pacing of the story is awkward. We get snatches of scene that advance the narrative but not always with enough character development (or action or something, ANYthing) for my taste. Phone rings, Barbara answers, says she knows about Essen, end scene. Gee, thanks a lot, Mr. Miller. Wanna buy a vowel?

I'd probably get more into Year One if it wasn't so scattershot. If we saw the actual beginning, middle and ending of scenes, and with fewer extraneous elements and probably another issue or two to spread its wings, I think the material would benefit.

It seems safe to say we wouldn't have gotten things like Legends of the Dark Knight, DC's 1995 Year One annuals, the Long Halloween and other stuff without Year One. Miller created a bit of a cottage industry for Batman with Year One. And those are things I value... and I value them a lot more than I value Year One itself, oddly enough.

Now, clearly I'm in the minority opinion since this is one of the most popular Batman stories of all time. I'm just saying that I'm less enamored by the Year One story than I am the Year One concept and the related stories that came out of it.
Title: Deffinition Batman Graphic Novel Reviews
Post by: Deffinition on Sat, 22 Apr 2017, 17:30
Hi everyone

Just started a new series where I'm gonna play through the Arkham Games and talk about the graphic novels that directly inspired the games.

WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU'RE STILL MAD I CALLED MYSELF AN EXPERT

Obviously it's going to be very trivia heavy so it would be great if people say i've missed stuff as I can add it into the later playthroughs.

Anyway hope you enjoy it, was really fun to do.

Link to the video is below

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU_fdhUxO0w
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU_fdhUxO0w)
Cheers
Title: Batman Shaman Review
Post by: Deffinition on Mon, 24 Apr 2017, 08:53
This book was reaaaaaallly hard to get a hold of. It's been out of print for years and years but as a big fan, honestly, it was worth it. Definitely recommend getting this as it ties in heavily into the Year One and even shows some of the scenes in that from a different angle. It's more for fan service but I enjoyed it.

You can read my indepth review of it here. Sorry if this is spammy but it'd be good to get feedback from people from this forum.

http://deffinition.co.uk/batman-shaman-review/ (http://deffinition.co.uk/batman-shaman-review/)

Cheers
Title: Re: Batman Shaman Review
Post by: Silver Nemesis on Mon, 24 Apr 2017, 14:21
I love Shaman. It was the first of the Year One era books I ever read as a child. I'm surprised to hear it's so difficult to get hold of now though. DC should collect that and the other early LOTDK stories into a single volume and make certain it stays in print.
Title: Re: Batman Shaman Review
Post by: thecolorsblend on Mon, 24 Apr 2017, 17:50
Shaman is one of those stories that I just never GOT. You know? I enjoy the art. But O'Neil's writing... it's hard to describe exactly but it's like Batman just talks too much. I could put that down to a stylistic preference on my part, I guess. But his "first" appearance with the street thugs is just a bit too full of 90's action movie tough guy talk, for example.

The art's solid though.
Title: Re: Batman Shaman Review
Post by: Silver Nemesis on Mon, 24 Apr 2017, 19:06
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon, 24 Apr  2017, 17:50
I could put that down to a stylistic preference on my part, I guess. But his "first" appearance with the street thugs is just a bit too full of 90's action movie tough guy talk, for example.

I like that scene. You're right about it having an action movie vibe, and I chalk that up to O'Neil deliberately referencing the Burton film that was released earlier that same year. If you compare the scene in Shaman with the equivalent scene in O'Neil's Batman 89 adaptation, the symmetry is very obvious. The context is similar too. In both stories, this is Batman making his costumed debut and trying to instil fear in the criminal underworld.

(http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp42/silver-nemsis/b89%20shaman_zpszvia0z7t.png)

I must have been around 9 years old when I first rented this story from the library, and back then I used to love spotting any similarity between the comics and the movies. So I really dug this scene for that reason alone.

Now I'm older, I like seeing Batman stories that address the totemic rationale behind the bat-motif. The idea of a man dressing as a bat to intimidate hardened criminals is so utterly absurd to begin with. It works fine in a light-hearted comedic context, but if you're translating it into a grittier and more serious setting then it requires a stronger psychological or spiritual subtext to reinforce the logic behind it. Batman Returns and Batman Begins both tried to do this. Why a bat? Why a cat? Why a penguin? Of course Year One had already covered this aspect of the character's formative process, but Shaman delves a little bit deeper into the subject.
Title: Re: Batman Shaman Review
Post by: thecolorsblend on Tue, 25 Apr 2017, 07:26
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Mon, 24 Apr  2017, 19:06Now I'm older, I like seeing Batman stories that address the totemic rationale behind the bat-motif. The idea of a man dressing as a bat to intimidate hardened criminals is so utterly absurd to begin with. It works fine in a light-hearted comedic context, but if you're translating it into a grittier and more serious setting then it requires a stronger psychological or spiritual subtext to reinforce the logic behind it. Batman Returns and Batman Begins both tried to do this. Why a bat? Why a cat? Why a penguin? Of course Year One had already covered this aspect of the character's formative process, but Shaman delves a little bit deeper into the subject.
That's the story's saving grace if you ask me. I kind of like the totemic thing with the mask exercising some kind of transformative power over Bruce. When Bruce wears the mask, he's not Bruce in a mask. He's Batman, which is a different thing entirely. That gets pretty well illustrated, so to speak, in the story.

Bruce is never entirely just Bruce... but he's not truly Batman without the mask. I dig that.
Title: Re: Batman Shaman Review
Post by: Deffinition on Tue, 25 Apr 2017, 08:26
yeah the books great psychologically. It's mystical and is still very very grounded at the same time. There is a great balance in the book
Title: Batman And The Monster Men Review
Post by: Deffinition on Thu, 27 Apr 2017, 14:37
I'm back with my graphic novel read through review. This time it's Batman And The Monster Men by Matt Wagner. This story seems to be getting a remake in rebirth and it's interesting in comparing the two.

I absolutely love this book and you can read here why I like it over year one....controversial I know.

Batman and The Monster Men Review
(http://deffinition.co.uk/batman-and-the-monster-men/)
Cheers
Title: Re: Batman And The Monster Men Review
Post by: GBglide on Thu, 27 Apr 2017, 23:36
I really liked Batman and the Monster Men, I found Hugo Strange a much more interesting character than he was in his original appearance.
Title: Re: Batman And The Monster Men Review
Post by: The Dark Knight on Fri, 28 Apr 2017, 00:43
I think just one thread called Deffinitions's Reviews may be in order.

The Monster Men and The Mad Monk are fantastic. I've always enjoyed them. They're fun, balanced reads. And yes, I think they're both better than Year One. Batman kicks ass more often and he's a scary thought. He's often interrogating goons. He's the detective visiting crime scenes. The scientist analyzing samples in the batcave. The creator making his own equipment. As Bruce he's sitting alone in the darkness, but he's also seen in bed with a female. This Batman also has vulnerability about him. He does get injured from time to time and badly. But he perseveres and finds a way to either win or escape.

A Batman film in which Batman enters a creepy old castle full of wild dogs and deathtraps while it's pouring with rain and thundering? I'm totally there. These two comics are right up my alley because they merge Batman with something more fantastical and psychological. Having Hugo Strange as the villain does that. He's a severely under-utilised villain and these day I prefer him over The Riddler. Plus I like the art.
Title: Re: Batman And The Monster Men Review
Post by: thecolorsblend on Fri, 28 Apr 2017, 06:56
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 28 Apr  2017, 00:43I think just one thread called Deffinitions's Reviews may be in order.
A much more politic comment than I was planning to write.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 28 Apr  2017, 00:43The Monster Men and The Mad Monk are fantastic. I've always enjoyed them. They're fun, balanced reads. And yes, I think they're both better than Year One. Batman kicks ass more often and he's a scary thought. He's often interrogating goons. He's the detective visiting crime scenes. The scientist analyzing samples in the batcave. The creator making his own equipment. As Bruce he's sitting alone in the darkness, but he's also seen in bed with a female. This Batman also has vulnerability about him. He does get injured from time to time and badly. But he perseveres and finds a way to either win or escape.
I love the originals upon which these Wagner series were based. They were foundational to my initial immersion in Batman lore.

Batman vs. the Vampire especially, in fact. It goes a long way toward establishing my view that Batman can work just fine in a paranormal-horror story. Which is more or less what Batman vs. the Vampire is all about.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 28 Apr  2017, 00:43A Batman film in which Batman enters a creepy old castle full of wild dogs and deathtraps while it's pouring with rain and thundering? I'm totally there. These two comics are right up my alley because they merge Batman with something more fantastical and psychological. Having Hugo Strange as the villain does that. He's a severely under-utilised villain and these day I prefer him over The Riddler. Plus I like the art.
To this day, I'm surprised that Hugo Strange has never been seen in a Batman film. If ever there was a character who could lend himself to virtually any type of Batman movie you want to make, it's Strange. But it's never happened.

A mystery...
Title: Deffinition Batman Graphic Novel Reviews
Post by: Deffinition on Tue, 2 May 2017, 12:52
So I'm currently reviewing A LOT of Batman graphic novels over at my website. I'm trying to do them in chronological order which is sometimes difficult but so far I think I have the majority of them. Instead of spamming thread i'm going to post them in here.

So far i've posted

Batman Year One Review
(http://deffinition.co.uk/batman-year-one-graphic-novel-review/)Batman Shaman Review (http://deffinition.co.uk/batman-shaman-review/)
Batman And The Monster Men Review (http://deffinition.co.uk/batman-and-the-monster-men/)

Following the above is

Batman And The Mad Monk Review (http://deffinition.co.uk/batman-and-the-mad-monk/)

Let me know your thoughts on the books!! Cheers
Title: Re: Deffinition Batman Graphic Novel Reviews
Post by: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 3 May 2017, 16:47
I hope you don't mind, Deffinition, but I've merged your earlier threads with this one. It just makes it easier for people following your reviews to find them if they're all in one place.
Title: Re: Deffinition Batman Graphic Novel Reviews
Post by: Deffinition on Fri, 5 May 2017, 13:44
Nah that's really cool, just noticed this has everything in, thanks a lot really appreciate that!!!
Title: Re: Deffinition Batman Graphic Novel Reviews
Post by: Deffinition on Mon, 8 May 2017, 07:38
Check out my review of

Batman The Man Who Laughs
(http://deffinition.co.uk/batman-the-man-who-laughs-review-by-deffinition/)
Really really REALLY good book that is a retelling of the Joker's First Experience that I think most fans will enjoy.

Cheers
Title: Re: Deffinition Batman Graphic Novel Reviews
Post by: The Dark Knight on Tue, 9 May 2017, 01:39
I like this one. If I had to take a limited number of Joker comics with me to a dessert island (I'm an ice cream guy), two would be The Killing Joke and The Man Who Laughs. Why? Because in these two comics they capture integral aspects to the Joker's personality which click for me.

In The Killing Joke we have the clown who wants to prove a point. The determined man with a plan.
In The Man Who Laughs we have the showman broadcasting his plans on television and then carrying them out.

The early years Batman comics are fantastic. The Long Halloween, Dark Victory, The Monster Men, The Mad Monk, Venom, The Man Who Laughs, Prey, Gothic...all really good reads. There's an exciting energy about them.
Title: Re: Deffinition Batman Graphic Novel Reviews
Post by: thecolorsblend on Tue, 9 May 2017, 18:55
To me, the saving grace of the Killing Joke is the Joker's back story. We've seen the Joker kill his own minions because they didn't laugh at his jokes. The Killing Joke shows us where his thin skin comes from.

The Killing Joke marked the beginning of the Joker crossing too many lines. But the good point about it is that Alan Moore's understanding of the Joker's psychology (and what it implies about his own history) is beyond reproach.
Title: Re: Deffinition Batman Graphic Novel Reviews
Post by: Deffinition on Fri, 12 May 2017, 11:19
yeah its a really gritty take on it in the killing joke.

Man who laughs is almost like a horror movie to me in the way that hes like an unstoppable killer.

anyway

My Batman Prey Review (http://deffinition.co.uk/batman-prey-review-by-deffinition/) is up and i'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on it

Cheers
Title: Re: Deffinition Batman Graphic Novel Reviews
Post by: The Laughing Fish on Fri, 12 May 2017, 14:49
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue,  9 May  2017, 18:55
To me, the saving grace of the Killing Joke is the Joker's back story. We've seen the Joker kill his own minions because they didn't laugh at his jokes. The Killing Joke shows us where his thin skin comes from.

The Killing Joke marked the beginning of the Joker crossing too many lines. But the good point about it is that Alan Moore's understanding of the Joker's psychology (and what it implies about his own history) is beyond reproach.

A friend of mine told me he was enjoying The Killing Joke right until the end, where Joker apologetically declined Batman's offer for rehabilitation. He reckons that the Joker is supposed to be the devil incarnate for doing these depraved things to the Gordons, and that for him to even consider Batman's offer cheapens him as a truly psychotic villain - that he's just another tragic villain.

I disagree. Yes, the comedian became the Joker because of tragic circumstances, and but his frailties don't mitigate his psychotic personality or how evil his crimes are. The whole point of TKJ is Joker went too far and he had no sense of moral restraint. Batman and Jim Gordon didn't let the tragedies they've experienced in their lives destroy their morality or change their personality, and they still believed in doing the right thing for the community. No matter how much I could feel sorry for the Joker, what makes him evil is he would dare inflict pain and trauma upon other innocent people...just to prove his twisted point of how life is miserable is. To share his own misery with others. There's a perverted selfishness going on there, and it's absolutely not sympathetic at all.
Title: Re: Deffinition Batman Graphic Novel Reviews
Post by: The Dark Knight on Fri, 12 May 2017, 23:45
I'm posting this as stream of consciousness so it may be rubbish, or it may be gold. But I see the Joker as being similar to a drug addict. He's gone down the rabbit hole and he's having a jolly old time. He's getting high and doing crazy stuff. But in his quieter moments, he's well aware that he's losing himself. He's slowly killing his soul. But he rationalizes that it's just too hard to go back. It's too hard to kick his habit and go cold turkey. So the addict simply accepts his new life and if anything, goes harder. The Joker seems to be much the same.
Title: Re: Deffinition Batman Graphic Novel Reviews
Post by: Azrael on Sun, 14 May 2017, 09:47
Quote from: Deffinition on Fri, 12 May  2017, 11:19

My Batman Prey Review (http://deffinition.co.uk/batman-prey-review-by-deffinition/) is up and i'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on it

Cheers

One thing I always liked is Paul Gulacy's artwork.
Title: Re: Deffinition Batman Graphic Novel Reviews
Post by: thecolorsblend on Mon, 15 May 2017, 01:35
Quote from: Azrael on Sun, 14 May  2017, 09:47One thing I always liked is Paul Gulacy's artwork.
Ditto. Some artists have no idea how to draw fights. But nine times out of ten, Gulacy would give his characters (or Batman anyway) the right foot work, the right balance and all that. Now and then, minor things would be off (strikes are not executed properly even though they look gorgeous) but mostly Gulacy is solid on this stuff.

Seriously underrated talent.
Title: Re: Deffinition Batman Graphic Novel Reviews
Post by: Deffinition on Thu, 18 May 2017, 11:36
Yeah Gulacy always kills it, really underrated artist.
Title: Re: Deffinition Batman Graphic Novel Reviews
Post by: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 27 May 2017, 05:22
I was going to start a new thread talking about Dark Victory, but I thought it'd be better to post about it here because Deffinition already reviewed it.

http://deffinition.co.uk/batman-dark-victory-review-by-deffinition/

Hey Deff, I agree with a lot of your analysis on Dark Victory. I'd say guilt is a recurring theme in Dark Victory.

Bruce felt guilty for not telling Harvey about his secret identity because he thinks showing some trust might've prevented Harvey from becoming Two-Face, so he decides to take a leap of faith by telling Dick Grayson the truth about who he is. It does add another layer into Bruce adopting Dick - as showing him trust enables Dick to live a good life on the way to become Robin.

Alfred, as you say in your review, makes up for his guilt for not telling Bruce he won't ever be alone when he was mourning for his parents as a child, by comforting Dick in the present. The pages where it mirrors Bruce and Dick's lonely moments as boys make it much more personal. I'd gather in Alfred's mind: if he had showed more support, Bruce wouldn't be isolating those around him. Maybe he wouldn't push Selina Kyle away if he embraced those around him. Confiding in Dick and showing that support would help Dick not to grow up too isolating and cold like Bruce Wayne is.

If there's a moral of the story I can take from Dark Victory, is you'd be surprised with how much a difference you can make in somebody's life if you give them that leap of faith.
Title: Re: Deffinition Batman Graphic Novel Reviews
Post by: Deffinition on Fri, 9 Jun 2017, 12:32
Hey that's a brilliant analysis of it. Never even really thought about it like that but it's great the see the huge leap that Bruce takes and almost the regret he has from seeing how successful it is that he never trust Dent.

Got a whole host of new reviews on the site now. Linked below.

Batman Chronological Timeline Review (http://deffinition.co.uk/batman-canon-timeline-and-graphic-novel-reviews/)

As always thanks everyone who check the reviews out. Means alot!
Title: Re: Deffinition Batman Graphic Novel Reviews
Post by: Deffinition on Thu, 6 Jul 2017, 15:01
Hi Everyone

Just posted my review of the Knightfall triology at the following links.

Batman Knightfall Review
(http://deffinition.co.uk/batman-knightfall-review/)

Batman Knightquest Review
(http://deffinition.co.uk/batman-knightquest/)
Batman Knightsend Review
(http://deffinition.co.uk/batman-knightsend-review/)
Would love to know your thoughts on them!

Cheers
Title: Re: Deffinition Batman Graphic Novel Reviews
Post by: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 8 Jul 2017, 00:25
I finished reading Knightfall nearly a month ago, and on my way reading Knightsquest.

Is it just me, or does anybody else think of Bane is the biggest cheat that Batman has ever faced? He knows very well that breaking out the rogues and prisoners would exhaust Batman's willpower, yet not only does Bane ambush Batman at his own home, he uses Venom to completely destroy him. Strategic? Definitely? But it's definitely not a fair fight. Then again, this conflict was never about honour.
Title: Re: Deffinition Batman Graphic Novel Reviews
Post by: The Dark Knight on Sat, 8 Jul 2017, 01:55
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat,  8 Jul  2017, 00:25
Is it just me, or does anybody else think of Bane is the biggest cheat that Batman has ever faced?
Yes.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat,  8 Jul  2017, 00:25
He knows very well that breaking out the rogues and prisoners would exhaust Batman's willpower, yet not only does Bane ambush Batman at his own home, he uses Venom to completely destroy him. Strategic? Definitely? But it's definitely not a fair fight.
That's the whole point of the story. A villain not playing fair? Say it ain't so LF!
Title: Re: Deffinition Batman Graphic Novel Reviews
Post by: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 8 Jul 2017, 03:11
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat,  8 Jul  2017, 01:55
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat,  8 Jul  2017, 00:25
He knows very well that breaking out the rogues and prisoners would exhaust Batman's willpower, yet not only does Bane ambush Batman at his own home, he uses Venom to completely destroy him. Strategic? Definitely? But it's definitely not a fair fight.
That's the whole point of the story. A villain not playing fair? Say it ain't so LF!

Hahaha, I knew I was setting myself up for failure after making that comment!  :D

As deranged as Bat-Azrael is, it was poetic justice when he confronted and defeated Bane, isn't it? Jean-Paul Valley was equally as ruthless and cunning.
Title: Re: Deffinition Batman Graphic Novel Reviews
Post by: Deffinition on Thu, 13 Jul 2017, 18:37
Yeah Bane screws Batman over a lot, which back fires because he sets himself up as this invincible leader of Gotham, which is something that he really isn't, so when Jean Paul takes him on he beats him pretty easily
Title: Re: Deffinition Batman Graphic Novel Reviews
Post by: The Dark Knight on Fri, 14 Jul 2017, 03:05
Quote from: Deffinition on Thu, 13 Jul  2017, 18:37
Yeah Bane screws Batman over a lot, which back fires because he sets himself up as this invincible leader of Gotham, which is something that he really isn't, so when Jean Paul takes him on he beats him pretty easily
I think Knightfall was a good story as to why Bruce Wayne is Batman and the others aren't.

Sure, Azrael had a meaner suit, but Batman is more than just a suit. Batman is about balance. Bruce has mental issues, but they don't overwhelm him. Azrael didn't care for detective work, so he made false conclusions about people. Batman can have disagreements and be standoffish with allies such as Robin, but would he completely drive them away? I don't think so. Azrael's Batman represents a man driven to the edge of obsession to the point he tries to kill the allies he drove away via his aggressive and egotistical 'go it alone' stance.

When Azrael is forced to remove parts of his costume at the end of the story, we're left with an inferior product.

Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat,  8 Jul  2017, 03:11
As deranged as Bat-Azrael is, it was poetic justice when he confronted and defeated Bane, isn't it? Jean-Paul Valley was equally as ruthless and cunning.
I enjoy the rematch in Legacy with the fully fit Batman.

(http://static.srcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/Batman-Legacy.jpg)

A reprint should be coming out soon. I'll be picking it up.
Title: Re: Deffinition Batman Graphic Novel Reviews
Post by: thecolorsblend on Sat, 15 Jul 2017, 15:54
One thing I don't know that we ever got was a normal Batman throwing with a 'roided up Bane. It's Batman's comic so we can be sure he would've won. But I would've wanted to see it anyway because reasons.
Title: Re: Deffinition Batman Graphic Novel Reviews
Post by: The Dark Knight on Mon, 17 Jul 2017, 01:07
The story always goes on, but I think Knightfall would've been a good ending for Batman. Sure, it ends in defeat, but that's how his story is likely going to end. Batman will keep suiting up every night until the moment he dies, or in this case, is crippled. Knightfall is cinematic in scope. Every villain is released, so we get those cameos. Batman is at his most brutal and determined here, which gives fans the action they want to see. But he's also desperate and vulnerable, which makes us connect with his plight on an emotional level as well. It's a simple story but one that hits all the right notes for me. I love it.
Title: Re: Deffinition Batman Graphic Novel Reviews
Post by: thecolorsblend on Mon, 17 Jul 2017, 03:08
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Mon, 17 Jul  2017, 01:07The story always goes on, but I think Knightfall would've been a good ending for Batman. Sure, it ends in defeat, but that's how his story is likely going to end. Batman will keep suiting up every night until the moment he dies, or in this case, is crippled. Knightfall is cinematic in scope. Every villain is released, so we get those cameos. Batman is at his most brutal and determined here, which gives fans the action they want to see. But he's also desperate and vulnerable, which makes us connect with his plight on an emotional level as well. It's a simple story but one that hits all the right notes for me. I love it.
Well, the most plausible way it would end is that a thug would fire a lucky shot and that'd be the end. Whether that's his first night on the job or after twenty years of dedicated service, that's the most likely outcome.

Short of that, I regard Hush as Batman's series finale. That's where my printed canon for Batman ends. My imaginary canon doesn't extend far beyond that, tbh, but maybe some things are best left to the imagination. So yeah. Hush. That's the end of Batman's story for me... if not necessarily the end of Batman exactly. If that makes sense.
Title: Re: Deffinition Batman Graphic Novel Reviews
Post by: The Dark Knight on Mon, 17 Jul 2017, 03:49
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon, 17 Jul  2017, 03:08
Well, the most plausible way it would end is that a thug would fire a lucky shot and that'd be the end. Whether that's his first night on the job or after twenty years of dedicated service, that's the most likely outcome.
Sure, I don't dispute that. But I like the way that Knightfall makes Batman retire. Giving up is not in his DNA. He has to be made to retire. The willpower is there but the body isn't, and I that's a fair trade off. His life literally flashes before his eyes. This way, Batman realizes he has been utterly beaten which to him, would be a fate worse than death. It makes for a heroic and tragic finale to his career, with plenty of nods to the past villains.

But what I really like is the fact Bane is a new villain. It's similar to mafia movies where the crime family kills all of their enemies and thinks the job is done. They're home free. But there's always someone new out there waiting in the wings to take you down. And they do.  Of course, with the passing of time, your conquerer is eventually replaced by another challenger, and so it goes on. It's a never ending cycle.

It's not a happy ending, but I don't think Batman gets one. Even if he lives to be an old man, he'd be all alone ala Beyond.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon, 17 Jul  2017, 03:08
Short of that, I regard Hush as Batman's series finale. That's where my printed canon for Batman ends. My imaginary canon doesn't extend far beyond that, tbh, but maybe some things are best left to the imagination. So yeah. Hush. That's the end of Batman's story for me... if not necessarily the end of Batman exactly. If that makes sense.
It does. I like Hush, and it's nice to see the story is getting some love. The art is quality but the story itself isn't that bad.
Title: Re: Deffinition Batman Graphic Novel Reviews
Post by: thecolorsblend on Mon, 17 Jul 2017, 17:36
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Mon, 17 Jul  2017, 03:49It does. I like Hush, and it's nice to see the story is getting some love. The art is quality but the story itself isn't that bad.
Marking it as the end of Batman's published canon is pretty much the only way I can see any good in the story at all. And it's a good conclusion for Batman. Gordon has retired, Harvey is cured and the reader has had a chance to see Batman's greatest hits riffed upon in the context of a whole new generation of heroes that he has raised. Selina knows his secret and there's always a chance they can finally make it work. It ends on a pretty hopeful note for Batman, all things considered.
Title: Re: Deffinition Batman Graphic Novel Reviews
Post by: The Dark Knight on Thu, 20 Jul 2017, 10:02
I think my ideal finale for Superman would be an amalgamation of Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow? and Kingdom Come. Basically, the entirety of Whatever Happened? would play out exactly as is.

Superman would de-power himself and live a quiet life with Lois Lane for a number of years.
A couple of years later, the Joker would kill Lois during his Daily Planet rampage.
Clark would go into further seclusion (another decade) and regain his powers when he decides enough is enough.
He helps save the day again, and it ends with Supes and Wonder Woman expecting a child.

I think that would be a nice balance.

Superman gets something of a happy ending whereas Batman doesn't.

So come to think of it, Kingdom Come would be be ideal ending for both Batman and Superman. Because Kingdom Come Batman didn't fully recover from his encounter with Bane and had to wear the exoskeleton at all times, and mostly just controlled drones from inside the batcave which he sealed off. So really, I get the best of both worlds: Knightfall's back breaker and Batman Beyond's lonely old man.
Title: Re: Deffinition Batman Graphic Novel Reviews
Post by: Deffinition on Tue, 29 Aug 2017, 13:57
Just dropped my video review of The Dark Knight Returns: The Last Crusade. Gonna be reviewing TDKR canon in the lead up to DK3 so please subscribe to my channel to see more as they come

The Dark Knight Returns: The Last Crusade (http://deffinition.co.uk/the-dark-knight-returns-the-last-crusade/)