Let's get a Wonder Woman movie thread going.
Production has already started on the film, and has, as of a few days ago, revealed it's cast.
http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Wonder-Woman-Reveals-Its-Impressive-Full-Cast-95677.html
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In addition, we also have our first image of Gadot's Wonder Woman from the film as well.
http://collider.com/collider-movie-talk-first-wonder-woman-image-revealed-cast-announced/
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And evidently, Chris Pine will be playing a few Trevor's due to the timeline jump in the film. Similar to how Steve Trevor was dealt with in the Lynda Carter Wonder Woman series where Lyle Waggoner played a WW2 era Steve Trevor during the 1st season, and then later Steve Trevor Jr. during the 2nd and 3rd seasons where the show shifted from WW2 to modern times.
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Quote from: The Joker on Wed, 25 Nov 2015, 16:23
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So it looks like the film will be set in WWII after all, judging by the costumes. And that would mean that Wonder Woman is an immortal, wouldn't it?
Unconfirmed rumours suggest that one of the villains will be Ares.
So she'll be appearing in BvS, then getting her own movie that's in the same continuity? Sounds great! I'm happy for the Wonder Woman fans out there that have been waiting for something like this to happen! :)
I really wanted this to happen, almost as much as I wanted Batman and Superman to meet in a live-action film. I hope my expectations are not exaggerated. :)
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 28 Nov 2015, 01:53
So it looks like the film will be set in WWII after all, judging by the costumes. And that would mean that Wonder Woman is an immortal, wouldn't it?
I hear Pine's Steve Trevor will meet up with Wonder Woman during WW1, which is an interesting change ... Then at some point, the film is said to jump forward in time to present day with Pine playing Trevor's grandson or great grandson.
It does appear like Wondy will be depicted as being immortal considering the time jump/jumps in the film. Going with her original origin as being a baby formed of clay, and given life by the Gods, or being a daughter of Zeus makes no difference there...
QuoteUnconfirmed rumours suggest that one of the villains will be Ares.
I really hope if Ares appears, there will be alot of influence from the George Perez depiction. ;)
(https://precinct1313.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/ares1.jpg)
Connie Nielsen has been cast as Hippolyta, Wonder Woman's mother in the forthcoming solo Wonder Woman movie:
http://www.superherohype.com/news/362827-connie-nielsen-cast-as-wonder-womans-mother#/slide/1 (http://www.superherohype.com/news/362827-connie-nielsen-cast-as-wonder-womans-mother#/slide/1)
I think this is a good choice. After all, Nielsen played a royal character very successfully in Gladiator.
New set photos:
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Source: http://www.mangaforever.net/275177/wonder-woman-gal-gadot-con-spada-e-scudo-nelle-nuove-immagini-dal-set
I see some people already comparing this movie to Captain America: The First Avenger because it's a period film. Good omen if you ask me. The First Avenger was great.
Agreed Laughing Fish. I'd have no problem whatsoever if Wonder Woman is the DC Extended Universe's version of Captain America: The First Avenger.
Same opinion for me. BvS and Suicide Squad represent good momentum for the new DC shared universe. I'm really hoping WW can continue that potential. I like Gal in the above pics very much.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Mon, 18 Jan 2016, 10:50
I see some people already comparing this movie to Captain America: The First Avenger because it's a period film. Good omen if you ask me. The First Avenger was great.
Agreed!
I've actually watched
Captain America: The First Avenger more than it's sequel
The Winter Soldier. Probably in the minority on that one, but oh well. It is what it is. :D
Both Captain America films are great, they got better for me upon re-watching.
Good if they're going for a similar feel to The First Avenger with Wonder Woman.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/ePL05nRDzwCXe/giphy.gif)
That DC Films special last night released footage of the film already.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LzkKR-22IQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LzkKR-22IQ)
Very good choice! I also hope Carter gets a nice cameo, not throw away but something a bit integral to the plot of the film.
Looks sweet!
I really hope they knock it out of the park with this. Being a guy who's read and owns a few long boxes of Wonder Woman comics, in addition to having read several books analyzing her history and character, it kinda goes without saying just how much I'm looking forward to this film!
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And I am so happy they are finally giving this classic character, Wonder Woman, and her world, importance, and not just give all the attention in the DCEU and JLA to Batman and Superman and adapting more recent stories and proeminent characters.
Am I the only one who thought it would be kinda neat if Carter played Hippolyta?
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 21 Jan 2016, 17:32
Am I the only one who thought it would be kinda neat if Carter played Hippolyta?
No.
Funny, they wanted Adam West to play Thomas Wayne in 1989 and he refused. I wonder if they ever considered Lynda for Hyppolita.
Quote from: Max Shreck on Fri, 22 Jan 2016, 01:14
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Thu, 21 Jan 2016, 17:32
Am I the only one who thought it would be kinda neat if Carter played Hippolyta?
No.
Funny, they wanted Adam West to play Thomas Wayne in 1989 and he refused. I wonder if they ever considered Lynda for Hyppolita.
I love Adam West as Batman. Out of all the actors who have played the character he's arguably the one who most resembles Bruce Wayne (although Ben Affleck will come close I expect). But I think it would have taken audiences out of the film had he been cast as Thomas Wayne in Batman '89.
In retrospect, I would have loved it.
Or at least if he was the Mayor in one of the sequels... :)
...or the Gray Ghost. 8)
Because it's the Wonder Woman thread, here's the concept artwork that was released awhile back in deciding her cinematic look.
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Quote from: The Joker on Sat, 23 Jan 2016, 06:32
Because it's the Wonder Woman thread, here's the concept artwork that was released awhile back in deciding her cinematic look.
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Looks awesome.
Her suit is excellent. I'm glad they went in the direction they did. You know, showing skin and evoking the traditional look but updated to modern times. Let women be women.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1imustIqOnk
Who says DC won't have fun a lot of fun with their properties? Loving what I'm seeing from BvS, Suicide Squad and Wonder Woman.
Making this a historical film, World War One era, is a smart move in my view. Captain America: The First Avenger was WW2. This is WW1. So even further back. And the big point of difference is Wonder Woman has actually lived those years up until the present day - whereas Cap was frozen. There's something about an individual who has lived for such a long time, seen so much and seen people come and go that connects with me. Batman is a great fighter, but Wonder Woman has been doing it a lot longer. She's sure to be wise and deep down an old soul. The groundwork is all there. If done correctly, this film can be so much more than a 'hot girl kicking ass.'
Really like Wonder Woman's interaction with Bruce from the final Batman v Superman trailer. :)
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"Oh, I don't think you've ever known a woman like me."
It's true, Bruce. It's damn true!
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The Original live action Wonder Woman (yes Lynda Carter, sorry Cathy Lee Crosby), the would-be Wonder Women, and of course, the New Wonder Woman. :)
Good, good... :)
Quote from: The Joker on Wed, 17 Feb 2016, 15:54
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The Original live action Wonder Woman (yes Lynda Carter, sorry Cathy Lee Crosby), the would-be Wonder Women, and of course, the New Wonder Woman. :)
Is the second pic, featuring I believe Megan Gale, an actual costume test or simply a piece of very early pre-production artwork?
I believe that's a photo of the costume test for Justice League Mortal. I really want to see the rest of the costume tests for that, though I have a feeling their Superman and Batman won't look as good as what we're getting in March.
Quote from: BatmAngelus on Wed, 17 Feb 2016, 19:04
I believe that's a photo of the costume test for Justice League Mortal. I really want to see the rest of the costume tests for that, though I have a feeling their Superman and Batman won't look as good as what we're getting in March.
I think Megan Gale looked great as Wonder Woman, but I wasn't too sure about some of the other casting choices for that proposed Justice League film, like Arnie Hammer for Batman and Adam Brody for The Flash.
On the other hand, George Miller was set to direct it, and who wouldn't want to see a comic-book movie from the guy who made Max Max?
Quote from: johnnygobbs on Wed, 17 Feb 2016, 19:26
George Miller was set to direct it, and who wouldn't want to see a comic-book movie from the guy who made Max Max?
Yup. Following the overwhelming positive reaction to
Mad Max Fury Road, one can certainly see WHY fans would want to do a documentary on Miller's cancelled Justice League film. Similar to Burton's
Superman Lives, it's just one of those projects people can't help but wonder about. Especially since both were so very close to actually getting made.....
Quote from: The Joker on Thu, 18 Feb 2016, 22:59
Quote from: johnnygobbs on Wed, 17 Feb 2016, 19:26
George Miller was set to direct it, and who wouldn't want to see a comic-book movie from the guy who made Max Max?
Yup. Following the overwhelming positive reaction to Mad Max Fury Road, one can certainly see WHY fans would want to do a documentary on Miller's cancelled Justice League film. Similar to Burton's Superman Lives, it's just one of those projects people can't help but wonder about. Especially since both were so very close to actually getting made.....
On the topic, does anyone know how one can watch the Superman Lives documentary?
I'm not sure either, but I'd like to see it. I would've preferred Superman Lives to Superman Returns. I do wonder how it would've been received by the public though. It's easy to say it would've been better in hindsight. I think it would've been divisive, moreso than Batman Returns, but would've grown a cult following.
Superman Lives is a very interesting documentary. Here is a link to watch it if anyone is interested
http://putlocker.is/watch-the-death-of-superman-lives-what-happened-online-free-putlocker.html
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 19 Feb 2016, 02:57
I'm not sure either, but I'd like to see it. I would've preferred Superman Lives to Superman Returns. I do wonder how it would've been received by the public though. It's easy to say it would've been better in hindsight. I think it would've been divisive, moreso than Batman Returns, but would've grown a cult following.
I totally agree.
As much as I love Batman Returns, I see it almost as a superior Elseworlds version of Batman rather than a definitive interpretation of the comic-book characters, and I suspect I'd feel the same way about a Superman film featuring Nicholas Cage in the lead role. Cage would be far from the type of actor I'd ideally picture as Superman, and yet I am certain that he and Burton would have come up with a fascinating, challenging, unique interpretation of Superman that focused on the character's status as an alien outsider trying to adapt to a world that feared him as much as it celebrated him.
First look at Amazonian characters: Queen Hippolyta (Connie Nielsen), General Antiope (Robin Wright) and her lieutenant, Menalippe (Lisa Loven Kongsli).
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See, things are already looking up for the future! :)
I liked Gal in BvS, and I'm eager to see her solo film. She's sexy, kicks serious ass and has a lovely mythology surrounding her. I can definitely see Gal and WW becoming a favourite of mine.
Gal was indeed awesome in the role, and I can safely say I am looking VERY much forward to Wonder Woman's own feature film next summer! I also enjoyed how the 1918 photograph figured in BvS, giving us a slight taste of what we'll see next year.
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Looks like Wayne Enterprises' presence will be figured into the 'present day' part of Wonder Woman!
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Makes sense. Bruce and Diana are the 'big two' at the moment, based on the plan they discuss at the end of BvS.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 4 May 2016, 07:03
Makes sense. Bruce and Diana are the 'big two' at the moment, based on the plan they discuss at the end of BvS.
This will definitely be an epilogue sort of scene by the end of this movie.
Meanwhile, filming has officially wrapped up, which means Gal Gadot will head straight to filming JL soon. Here is a farewell shot of the cast and crew.
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Just to compliment TLF's post:
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Also, just wanted to add to the thread Wonder Woman's theme from BvS.
Definitely one of my favorite tracks from the soundtrack!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw_o7XUX3fg
Some new promotional posters have leaked out!
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Good banner. Looks very regal and majestic.
Just cause. ;)
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Yum. Please rescue me Gal. If it equals death from your toned thighs, so be it.
Indeed!
Having watched a number of episodes of "1000 ways to die", Gal pulling a 'Xenia Onatopp' would be preferable compared to alot of other ways to kick the bucket. ;D
Quote from: The Joker on Wed, 6 Jul 2016, 05:51
Indeed!
Having watched a number of episodes of "1000 ways to die", Gal pulling a 'Xenia Onatopp' would be preferable compared to alot of other ways to kick the bucket. ;D
Indeed. And I hear the trailer will be released soon. Robert Downey Jr made me appreciate Iron Man. And Gal has made me appreciate Wonder Woman. Not sure if I'll buy comics yet though. We'll see.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 6 Jul 2016, 07:27
Indeed. And I hear the trailer will be released soon. Robert Downey Jr made me appreciate Iron Man. And Gal has made me appreciate Wonder Woman. Not sure if I'll buy comics yet though. We'll see.
Are you collecting Iron Man comics, TDK? Or are you not that big of a fan?
"IF" you were to start with Wonder Woman comics, honestly, right now would probably be the best time in doing so due to the whole
Rebirth initiative that's going on with DC Comics right now. Currently, her opening Rebirth arc is titled, "THE LIES". Where it appears her origin/history is going to be affected to some extent, with the additional revelation that she has a twin brother named, Jason. It's unclear how much some of her New52 history is going to be altered/changed/retconned (product of Zeus, Amazon sex/murder raids), but I wouldn't be surprised if atleast some of that stuff is put out to pasture. It's been theorized by fans that a villain that dates back to the Golden Age, The Duke of Deception, may be involved in this storyline since illusions/lies are his schtick, but that's just a theory. Honestly, it would be great opportunity to reintroduce the Duke into the DCU proper, so we'll see....
Here's a comparison to Gal as Wonder Woman in the DCEU, and Wonder Woman as she appears
now Post-Rebirth DCU.
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A quick plot synopsis from WB:
QuoteBefore she was Wonder Woman, she was Diana, princess of the Amazons, trained to be an unconquerable warrior. Raised on a sheltered island paradise, when an American pilot crashes on their shores and tells of a massive conflict raging in the outside world, Diana leaves her home, convinced she can stop the threat. Fighting alongside man in a war to end all wars, Diana will discover her full powers...and her true destiny.
It's also been revealed that Allan Heinberg and Geoff Johns teamed up to pen the movie as well.
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^ Very nice.
Gal, Chris Pine and Patty Jenkins will be at Comic Con on July 23 as well.
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This movie has a lot of potential.
Quote from: The Joker on Wed, 6 Jul 2016, 15:50
Are you collecting Iron Man comics, TDK? Or are you not that big of a fan?
Nope, not collecting Iron Man comics. A lot of it is down to Robert Downey Jr's screen presence. I think he's entertaining to watch, but the filmmakers have also created a layered character that has evolved over the years. Gal is much the same with her screen presence, but I may actually explore the WW comics.
Yeah, I've never been a big Iron Man reader either, but do enjoy Robert Downey Jr's portrayal as well.
With Wonder Woman, I have alot of hope that the film will turn out good. Course some of that is me wanting the film to do well considering the long wait I've had for a actual live action Wonder Woman film, along with being fairly well versed in the character's mythology, but I think Gale, like Downey, being so warmly received in her screen time in BvS certainly helps in that positive perception that is always wanted from a studio prior to a release date.
I also dig the WW1 setting as well. Initially, I was on the fence, due to being so used to WW2, if anything, typically being the War Wonder Woman is often associated with in the comics, but the more I thought about it, it's great. As in light of all the movies focusing on WW2, or using it as a backdrop, a Wonder Woman movie taking place during WW1 automatically makes it distinct. Which is something I hope the DCEU continues to do. Not only in it's style and approach, but also in order to differentiate itself from the MCU. I'm enjoying the different flavors, and really have no interest in either mirroring the other.
I understand that Captain America has a virtual monopoly on World War II in the public's mind... but I do wish this movie was taking place during World War II anyway.
That said, I dig the idea of Wonder Woman FINALLY earning her rep as a DC icon. She's always viewed like a DC prom queen but there's not much aside from Linda Carter to justify that. Certainly her comics have rarely been readable. A big screen movie could finally put everything right.
I know jacknothing about the movie but I so want this to be good.
Perception can easily be remedied, especially in light of more mainstream exposure. Just take a look at some of the characters that have headlined movies over at Marvel/Disney, and there you go. As far as comics go, it helps to have a vision and stick with it. Fortunately, the state of being inconsistent in direction is not something that Wonder Woman is unique to. As Iron Man, and to a lesser extent, Captain America even shared that same problem for a number of years. Going back to the 1990's, it's telling that the most attention the character of Captain America got that entire decade, was when Rob Liefeld was brought on to head the Cap book for the Heroes Reborn initiative. Which is sad. Course Ed Brubaker finally got the book rolling, but that wasn't until 2004/2005.
With Wonder Woman, fans are likely to point you to the direction of George Perez's run. John Byrne's is pretty decent, as is Greg Rucka's run, and Gail Simone. Course I dig the Golden Age Marston stories, but that's just me. If you don't give a damn about prior history, Brian Azzarello's New52 take might be to one's liking. I've read Grant Morrison's Earth One book on Wonder Woman, and thought it was OK. I hear good things about "The Legend of Wonder Woman" comics, but being that I haven't read them, I really can't comment on them. Rucka's back on the board thanks to DC Rebirth, and that's most definitely a good thing!
More images have been released!
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She looks awesome!
I've always had a soft spot for historical superhero films. I think maybe it stems from my love of old Golden Age comic books. Captain America: The First Avenger is the obvious example, but also older movies like The Rocketeer, The Shadow and The Phantom. Even the Burton Batman films had a semi-historical aesthetic going on, what with the fedoras and art deco production design. I'm hoping we'll see a little of that in this film.
I suppose the one good thing to come out of the Ghostbusters fiasco is that we know for a fact Wonder Woman will be rated 'fresh' on RT. We could launch a fake misogyny campaign like Sony did, tip off the press that people are badmouthing the concept of a female superhero, then watch the virtue signalling 'fresh' reviews pour in. I can just see the headlines now: "Sorry to ruin your childhoods, basement-dwelling misogynist manbabies, but Wonder Woman proves girls can be heroes too!" But unlike Ghostbusters, this movie will also have the full support of the fans. It's a win-win strategy.
Yeah, having the Ghostbusters franchise and fan base stigmatized to some extent by all the shenanigans that were pulled with Feig's 2016 "film" was bad enough. However, with next year's Wonder Woman film, there is no warping of the established model in order to fit a exec/director's personal 'vision' for what they want. So no, this won't be Feiged up, or something like a Dozier "Who's Afraid of Diana Prince?" pilot. By all accounts, this Wonder Woman film comes across like a classic Wonder Woman story to me, just with a different time period (World War 1, late 1910's). Which automatically gives it a unique and distinct aesthetic than what we've seen previously in superhero-related period films.
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Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Fri, 15 Jul 2016, 19:50
I've always had a soft spot for historical superhero films. I think maybe it stems from my love of old Golden Age comic books. Captain America: The First Avenger is the obvious example, but also older movies like The Rocketeer, The Shadow and The Phantom. Even the Burton Batman films had a semi-historical aesthetic going on, what with the fedoras and art deco production design. I'm hoping we'll see a little of that in this film.
I suppose the one good thing to come out of the Ghostbusters fiasco is that we know for a fact Wonder Woman will be rated 'fresh' on RT. We could launch a fake misogyny campaign like Sony did, tip off the press that people are badmouthing the concept of a female superhero, then watch the virtue signalling 'fresh' reviews pour in. I can just see the headlines now: "Sorry to ruin your childhoods, basement-dwelling misogynist manbabies, but Wonder Woman proves girls can be heroes too!" But unlike Ghostbusters, this movie will also have the full support of the fans. It's a win-win strategy.
You are right again. I have NO problem with women kicking ass and taking names. In fact, I love it. But what I don't like is hijacking brands. Say, taking Ghostbusters, Doctor Who, James Bond or other iconic brands and changing the lead role's gender. Make your own characters please. Wonder Woman is an existing brand so that's fine. She'll finally get her big screen debut, and fingers crossed it succeeds. The new pics get me excited for the overall product. The mythology of Wonder Woman being 5000 years old, and living those years - not being frozen, really separates her from Captain America. It's a key difference. If the film succeeds, I'm hoping DC do a trilogy.
75 Years of Wonder Woman video that incorporates the sweet Wonder Woman theme from BvS!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5cV8MCIoMk
That theme just makes me happy and excited. Such a badass theme Hans cooked up. Definitely worthy of a Trinity member.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cn-zZtuXYAAwZgD.jpg:large)
Nice teaser poster!
With Wonder Woman being in silhouette, it makes me think of the Batman Begins teaser poster, though this one is more colorful and makes the image stands out further. :)
I'm a happy camper. The poster Works.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lGoQhFb4NM
Love the trailer!
Wonderful!
As a reader, Wonder Woman's line, "I was brought to life by Zeus." kinda caught my attention. Especially since it's not "I am the daughter of Zeus." That may very well be what DC is going to retcon from her New52 origin for the current Rebirth THE LIES story arc. Where she's revealed to not actually be a child born from an affair between her mother Hippolyta and Zeus, but rather taking it back to her classic origin a bit where she was molded from clay in the form of a baby, and given powers by the Greek Gods and finally given life by Zeus.
Me being stoked for this movie is an understatement. ;D
You should write a comic influence analysis of this next year, Joker. I'm rather poorly read when it comes to Wonder Woman comics, so I won't have much insight into how faithfully it holds to the source material. But I'd be interested in reading an analysis by someone who's better versed in the mythos.
Nice trailer! I like the part where Hippolyta warns Diana about mankind. It foreshadows Diana mentioning to Bruce how she lost faith in humanity following the horrors of WW1 at the end of BvS.
Judging by the action, it appears that WW is not afraid to kill. I'd be very surprised if she's escapes backlash from do-gooders who complained about Superman and Batman.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sat, 23 Jul 2016, 22:32
You should write a comic influence analysis of this next year, Joker. I'm rather poorly read when it comes to Wonder Woman comics, so I won't have much insight into how faithfully it holds to the source material. But I'd be interested in reading an analysis by someone who's better versed in the mythos.
I echo this.
Who else had a huge grin on their face when the Zimmer WW theme began playing? ;D
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sat, 23 Jul 2016, 22:32
You should write a comic influence analysis of this next year, Joker. I'm rather poorly read when it comes to Wonder Woman comics, so I won't have much insight into how faithfully it holds to the source material. But I'd be interested in reading an analysis by someone who's better versed in the mythos.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sun, 24 Jul 2016, 01:59
I echo this.
Who else had a huge grin on their face when the Zimmer WW theme began playing? ;D
This guy! :D
Thanks for the suggestion about doing an analysis. I might attempt it, but really can't say for sure if it's something I can honestly uphold and manage due to school and studies I have going on at the moment. It's definitely something to consider.
(https://scontent-syd1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13781774_998891566875623_3683200300681420718_n.jpg?oh=9bfe074d93185b5083b3ce47dad2b6e2&oe=5826A490)
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So gorgeous, and love her voice too. To be honest, I'll be following Gal's progress in the DCU the closest. For research purposes...
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sun, 24 Jul 2016, 11:49
(https://scontent-syd1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13781774_998891566875623_3683200300681420718_n.jpg?oh=9bfe074d93185b5083b3ce47dad2b6e2&oe=5826A490)
(https://scontent-syd1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13691035_998669310231182_8130266808296079526_o.jpg)
(https://scontent-syd1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13735164_998598986904881_8986963836280328605_o.png)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goyA-ygColY&list=FL2E_KOhE1_wJT8fltjHkXsA
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sun, 24 Jul 2016, 11:49
I'll be following Gal's progress in the DCU the closest. For research purposes...
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
lol
I'm in love with what I've seen so far. Gal is so gorgeous as WW, as Diana, and just in general. Sooooo beautiful. And she was such a badass in BvS, I can't wait to see her more naive and stuff (even though it will probably be heart breaking in places) with this movie.
I'll tell you what I dig. The momentum DC/WB are generating with the Justice League being formed. I bet you there's an end scene between Bruce and Diana. Have Bruce say he has a few more leads and will now approach a guy named Arthur Curry. Diana says he better hurry up, because she fears something bad is approaching Earth and they better be prepared for it. Or whatever. You get the idea. I think JL will be the event film of the DCU. It will leave the cinematic universe in a state of equilibrium. Making the formation of the league more of an arduous task just makes it cooler and special to me. Fingers crossed Suicide Squad references it too.
Patty Jenkins has dismissed claims from some alleged former WB worker who has called the movie "a mess".
Source: http://variety.com/2016/film/news/wonder-woman-director-patty-jenkins-responds-claim-mess-1201836794/
So, is this somebody who is trying to get attention by jumping on the "hate DCEU" bandwagon...or is there some truth about the movie being subpar? Time will tell.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 13 Aug 2016, 10:47
Patty Jenkins has dismissed claims from some alleged former WB worker who has called the movie "a mess".
Source: http://variety.com/2016/film/news/wonder-woman-director-patty-jenkins-responds-claim-mess-1201836794/
So, is this somebody who is trying to get attention by jumping on the "hate DCEU" bandwagon...or is there some truth about the movie being subpar? Time will tell.
This is the first time I've heard about this.
Of all the DCEU films, I would have thought this one stood the best chance of being decent.
If this one does turn out to be a 'mess' and gets the same critical mauling that MOS, BvS and SS got, I really hope WB reboots.
DC fans deserve better than a subpar franchise that does well at the box-office but fails in every other possible way. DC fans deserve movies that are as good as the MCU ones.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 13 Aug 2016, 10:47
Patty Jenkins has dismissed claims from some alleged former WB worker who has called the movie "a mess".
Source: http://variety.com/2016/film/news/wonder-woman-director-patty-jenkins-responds-claim-mess-1201836794/
So, is this somebody who is trying to get attention by jumping on the "hate DCEU" bandwagon...or is there some truth about the movie being subpar? Time will tell.
It's rubbish. Nothing to see here. As the batman-online social media accounts say, the Internet fans the flames on an ice cube these days. The film is still 10 months away. If you want to put any credible worth into gossip, put it into Devin Faraci. He's saying the movie will be gold. Disgruntled and bitter ex employees are just that.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 13 Aug 2016, 11:11
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 13 Aug 2016, 10:47
Patty Jenkins has dismissed claims from some alleged former WB worker who has called the movie "a mess".
Source: http://variety.com/2016/film/news/wonder-woman-director-patty-jenkins-responds-claim-mess-1201836794/
So, is this somebody who is trying to get attention by jumping on the "hate DCEU" bandwagon...or is there some truth about the movie being subpar? Time will tell.
It's rubbish. Nothing to see here. As the batman-online social media accounts say, the Internet fans the flames on an ice cube these days. The film is still 10 months away. If you want to put any credible worth into gossip, put it into Devin Faraci. He's saying the movie will be gold. Disgruntled and bitter ex employees are just that.
I too think it's just noise coming from a disgruntled ex employee, but I have no time for Devin Faraci. That guy has a notorious reputation for bullying people for simply disagreeing with him. Besides, the guy is no fan of MOS or BvS, but he gave Suicide Squad a fairly positive review (I didn't quite hate SS, but I thought I'd make that point to resonate with you).
His comments are the only legitimate feedback we have at the moment. But indeed, if he disliked BvS and MoS, well, it's safe to say I wouldn't get on well with him. :-\
According to Faraci:
QuoteDAREDEVIL Review: Marvel's First Netflix Show Is Overlong, Pretty Okay
Too many episodes and too many hours make DAREDEVIL the Man Without Momentum.
http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2015/04/15/daredevil-review-marvels-first-netflix-show-is-overlong-pretty-okay
QuoteGHOSTBUSTERS Review: Bad News For The Ghostbros
The reboot is very funny, and pretty good.
http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2016/07/10/ghostbusters-review-bad-news-for-the-ghostbros
Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion. But if someone praises Feig's Ghostbusters and trashes Daredevil, then I find it difficult to attach value to that person's opinion.
Yeah, I'm not sure, especially at this stage in Wonder Woman's production, how anyone can make the leap and say a film is a "mess". Especially when you consider that the film is still very much being put together as we speak. I remember Jeff Bridges even speaking about how during the filming of the first Iron Man, there was no script, and he would just show up day-to-day not knowing what he, or anyone else, was going to say. I sincerely doubt anything along those lines was happening with WW, and needless to say, this comes across as very salty.
Newly released BTS photo from BvS.
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages2.hiboox.com%2Fimages%2F3416%2F06914020b60681e6b5e57d87b30ef032.jpg&hash=dc573aa83a4ec556262ff63d920680bb3178926b)
And just because this photo of Gal is just too good not to post.
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fprem0.hiboox.com%2Fimages%2F3416%2F3e1b5cf6180a5153fc83fb597326bb13.jpg&hash=f73c3aad4598154defe2d6bb0fdf0ef07c072eeb)
Quality photos. Particularly the second one. ;)
Thanks for posting the new pic, Joker.
They made an incredibly good decision when they hired Gal. She seems like a genuine princess with a heart of gold.
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F67.media.tumblr.com%2Fea925570389b9f4f7b52db9b6e5388cc%2Ftumblr_o9qghkvbC21trnw66o1_250.gif&hash=e9f711fcb453c7107ddc07bf27de31b37d0af2c9)(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F67.media.tumblr.com%2Fc961d62a5ea0c63ad2db59a61f971340%2Ftumblr_o9qghkvbC21trnw66o2_250.gif&hash=de65b14bed2608f07c31a9697853ea8e73526db6)
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This inspires me to consider writing a WonderGal appreciation article!
Those legs ... :)
QuoteThis inspires me to consider writing a WonderGal appreciation article!
Excellent!
To be honest, no other comic book actress has excited me quite like Gal. There's Michelle Pfeiffer of course, but facts are, that's now 24 years ago and was just the one film. Gal is here and now, with BvS already under her belt and a number of other films lined up.
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn1us.denofgeek.com%2Fsites%2Fdenofgeekus%2Ffiles%2Fstyles%2Finsert_main_wide_image%2Fpublic%2F2016%2F03%2Fgal_gadot_wonder_woman.jpg%3Fitok%3DwOsbmnuK&hash=3c69a2495e7d17b40dd0f3e48349a03733a3fa55)
I'm happy they went with this aesthetic, and didn't cover her up for fear of 'objectifying women' and all those similar BS statements. Let women dress however the hell they want.
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New 'fire' image.
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fprem0.hiboox.com%2Fimages%2F4316%2Fc4fd4e91e1b5454767fa89dd37d85d81.jpg&hash=49a550b4f2c2036688fce86e4c80e6c067e720c4)
&
Lynda with Gal as Wonder Woman is named Special UN Ambassador.
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Gal is so amazing even in stills. I need that as a poster, stat.
I love the UN initiative (and the pic of Lynda and Gal!). I do not love these f***ing morons making an issue of using her cause of her outfit or her being a violent comic character and all that bullsh*t. But that's the modern world for you. People wake up excited to find something new to bitch about.
Here's another picture of Gal Gadot in her Wonder Woman glory fighting Doomsday behind the scenes of BvS.
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickeringmyth.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F09%2Fgal-gadot-batman-v-superman-600x450.jpg&hash=def8c004d1abcc03098eceac0751e3670a6d7d0b)
See half of me loves those behind the scenes pics, the other half is like "My childhood was a lie!" even though the movie only came out seven months ago and only two months before my 30th freaking birthday
The 2nd Trailer is now HERE!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Q8fG0TtVAY
In addition, we now also have 3 new Posters.
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages4.hiboox.com%2Fimages%2F4416%2F972e2afd208dd581940c88d1e6bb7b23.jpg&hash=5cda9567cfa6f9eb2f342c354a968761c420b34c)
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages4.hiboox.com%2Fimages%2F4416%2F2176a5c4591a384e52ac26bf06d370a1.jpg&hash=98913409dc269bc871ca747ced9b554ae63c291e)
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages4.hiboox.com%2Fimages%2F4416%2F865e9d7de903dab1b894b14e2b8bd044.jpg&hash=f43c400967af3b6c32820b1d1db1fae0c7469015)
I like how this trailer calls back to the photograph from BvS. 8)
Quote from: Catwoman on Wed, 2 Nov 2016, 02:20
See half of me loves those behind the scenes pics, the other half is like "My childhood was a lie!"
I know the feeling too well. In fact, I might've taken a break from comic-related stuff because of that. :-[
The trailer is pretty freaking epic and the posters are gorgeous.
Going off the trailer, it does appear as if Elena Anaya's character will indeed be of Wonder Woman villain, Doctor Poison.
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One tip off is that Anaya's character's attire is strikingly similar to that of the Golden Age Dr. Poison, also we get the allusion of her character working with toxins. In addition, there is also a quick shot of her in a trenchcoat and fedora that suggests she won't be a character that is adverse to disguises when the situation calls for it.
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The Golden Age Dr. Poison was often confused for being a male due to her disguise and mask.
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages4.hiboox.com%2Fimages%2F4416%2Fd135505f39cf4946066300ac73bfc368.jpg&hash=f7d58d9c343351c9fe7186252c2846981635edb2)
For the film however, we see that Anaya's character is indeed wearing a mask, but this might be due to the fact that in the early 1900's, particularly during and after WW1, prosthetic masks were often implemented for people as a form of 'facial reconstruction' due to the horrors of war, and/or disfigurement.
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Disfigurement wasn't something that the Golden Age Dr. Poison suffered from, but with comics being translated to film, changes will occur, and going this route may just provide a inner 'motivation' for Princess Maru aka Dr. Poison to lash out against the world.
We'll see of course, but the evidence is clearly there.
Good write up, Joker! Admittedly, I know nothing about the Wonder Woman mythos, but the evidence you brought up is hard to dismiss.
Who do you think Danny Huston will be playing? I predict it will be Ares.
I'm a genuine Wonder Woman fan these days. Her cinematic debut has been nothing short of amazing.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 5 Nov 2016, 01:28
Good write up, Joker! Admittedly, I know nothing about the Wonder Woman mythos, but the evidence you brought up is hard to dismiss.
Who do you think Danny Huston will be playing? I predict it will be Ares.
Thanks!
I agree with your prediction.
It seems like the most logical choice. Especially going off the latest trailer.
You can't make this stuff up.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/12/wonder-woman-un-ambassador-gender-equality
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New image of Gal's Wonder Woman released.
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Hahaha, Gal Gadot has slammed the fuss that got Wonder Woman removed as a UN ambassador.
Quote
Last week, we reported on the United Nation's decision to remove Wonder Woman's status as an honorary ambassador due to a petition which questioned whether she would be the best role model for a campaign championing gender equality and female empowerment. Today, Wonder Woman actress Gal Gadot has broken her silence. "There are so many horrible things that are going on in the world, and this is what you're protesting, seriously?" said an incredulous Gadot.
In direct response to the petition's of Wonder Woman's "impossible proportions", and "large breasts" Gadot questioned the double-standard behind such reasoning.
"When people argue that Wonder Woman should 'cover up,' I don't quite get it. They say, 'If she's smart and strong, she can't also be sexy.' That's not fair. Why can't she be all of the above?"
You tell 'em, Gal.
Source: https://www.comicbookmovie.com/wonder_woman/gal-gadot-comments-on-critics-that-cost-wonder-woman-her-un-a147600
Feminism is basically a vehicle for giving society's most unattractive women an artificially better self-image through external means. It shouldn't be a surprise when Wonder Woman gets beauty-shamed and achievement-shamed like this.
Exactly colorful one. I admire Gal in her reply. This is an empowered woman who fights evil and just so happens to look smoking hot while doing so. Get over it, SJW'ers. WonderGal is my hero of choice and this pathetic UN snub doesn't change that. In fact, it only strengthens my stance. As Gal says, it's okay to be strong and smart, but not sexy as well. What a head scratcher. Let sexy women be sexy. If you're a cave troll, that's just how it is. But that ain't Gal. ;D
Some DC comic writers/artists are tweeting how disappointed they are about this, and how the people triggered don't get what Wonder Woman stands for as a symbol.
If Superman can be a symbol and has a "perfect body", then I don't see the double standards for Wonder Woman.
Oh well. It's going to be awkward when the UN is under attack and Wonder Woman is the only available hero to help.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlMR31B2nYE&list=FL2E_KOhE1_wJT8fltjHkXsA&index=1
What I like about this film, is that it doesn't seem pretentious. It doesn't come off as feminist propaganda. I'm positive this isn't going to be another man hating Girlbusters Part Two. Patty Jenkins' comments about Wonder Woman gave me a lot hope to begin with:
"It's total wish-fulfillment. I, as a woman, want Wonder Woman to be hot as hell, fight badass, and look great at the same time – the same way men want Superman to have huge pecs and an impractically big body. That makes them feel like the hero they want to be. And my hero, in my head, has really long legs."
Seriously, good on her. That's the type of refreshing commentary we need. DC and Patty didn't sell out. It's more that men love Diana and want her to be safe, but she fights on regardless. "What I do is not up to you". She's independent (she's not a slave) and at the same time, is on a voyage of discovery. I see WonderGal being a female James Bond. Someone men want to be with, and someone women want to be. That's the right mix. Everyone leaves satisfied.
I'm really excited for this movie.
Nice post!
Also, I don't think it's been said but the composer for the 2017 Wonder Woman film will be Rupert Gregson-Williams. If I actually told you some of his earlier credits, you'd probably laugh, however he has a fantastic understanding of how to craft melodies and I am personally excited to hear what he comes up with for Wonder Woman.
....
And just cause I want to post another Gal image.
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffree0.hiboox.com%2Fimages%2F0117%2F14e9092441497e1dd403409a94224a7f.jpg&hash=c5880837f81a6099cabe31245f808304c4fd8f47)
I'm not familiar with this composer, but he has Zimmer's amazing theme at his disposal. So that's all he needs.
I'll take this opportunity to post a picture as well. Gal getting ready for the critics. ;D
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi68.tinypic.com%2F2ebd5pf.jpg&hash=704c6a982518994980c1779c06fd825edd0f6505)
Haha!
Really looking forward to what these talents dish out in June!
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages3.hiboox.com%2Fimages%2F0317%2F97dbd08a2a348e93771aff425accd3f5.jpg&hash=214ab691b728dd48cfb5435dc72fba191c8d159b)
Lovely Gal featured on a upcoming Empire Magazine.
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fprem0.hiboox.com%2Fimages%2F0817%2F8e4c884125106d5bc582c8c390124674.jpg&hash=818c9ca6be91adddf1c00930ab919acbe5ccf7c6)
She didn't fit what I thought of as Wonder Woman at first but gah she's beautiful. Totally grown on me.
If you don't want any possible spoilers, look away.
There's a rumor that:
Wonder Woman apparently starts in the present day with Bruce Wayne emailing Diana Prince when she's in Paris. He is trying to get her help in recruiting a group of meta-humans to form the Justice League. She then decides to tell him the story of the first time she came across mankind in 1918, when the rest of the film is set. By the end of the film, she agrees to join him.
Last year, a Wonder Woman set photo alluding to Batman's cameo in the film, appeared on Twitter. The picture showed Gadot standing next to a Wayne Enterprises bank truck during a scene in Paris.
I suspected this could happen. Hopefully something like this eventuates.
That would be cool.
I don't like it.
Characters sitting around emailing or Googling on a computer is one of the least cinematic things you can have them do. It reminds me of the universally savaged scene in BvS, where Batman checks out the potential JLA recruits in Lex's files.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 1 Mar 2017, 00:34
If you don't want any possible spoilers, look away.
My response to these possible SPOILERS are in white.
I prefer this isn't true. I like the idea that Superman's sacrifice to save the planet inspired both Batman AND Wonder Woman to work together in gathering the rest of the metahumans to form the League. Diana still needing to be convinced to join the cause, I don't know, feels off. On one hand, I can see how witnessing the worst in humanity during WWI isn't something for anybody to get over. But on the other hand, I like the idea of Superman's legacy restores not only Bruce's faith, but Diana's too.
Quote from: johnnygobbs on Wed, 1 Mar 2017, 10:34
I don't like it.
Characters sitting around emailing or Googling on a computer is one of the least cinematic things you can have them do. It reminds me of the universally savaged scene in BvS, where Batman checks out the potential JLA recruits in Lex's files.
This is the 21st century, that's how information is gathered and transferred. Are you really that f***ing stupid? (Don't bother answering, I already know)
And where has that scene been "universally savaged?" You're literally the first person I've seen bring it up. Sounds more like "I'm a f***ing moron who doesn't know how to think for himself but someone said it on IMDb so I'll go with it. Whatever will I do now that I don't have them to tell me what to think? Maybe a celebrity will. Ah, saved."
Quote from: Catwoman on Wed, 1 Mar 2017, 13:18
And where has that scene been "universally savaged?" You're literally the first person I've seen bring it up. Sounds more like "I'm a f***ing moron who doesn't know how to think for himself but someone said it on IMDb so I'll go with it. Whatever will I do now that I don't have them to tell me what to think? Maybe a celebrity will. Ah, saved."
I don't listen to celebrities. I despise their self-important rhetoric, irrespective of whether they share the same views of me or not. Just because they're rich and famous, it doesn't make their opinions more important than that of regular folk.
Still, I've see the scene in question savaged and mocked on various forums and in various professional reviews. And the fact is, people sitting around computer screens typing emails is visually unappealing and far too prosaic for what is meant to be a big fantastical comic-book movie.
I had no problem at all with that scene. It was just a nice little preview of what's to come in Justice League. I don't see how it's worse than the post-credit scene in Iron Man (tbh I found that scene stupid).
Quote from: johnnygobbs on Wed, 1 Mar 2017, 14:01
I don't listen to celebrities. I despise their self-important rhetoric, irrespective of whether they share the same views of me or not. Just because they're rich and famous, it doesn't make their opinions more important than that of regular folk.
Bullsh*t, who was the one telling us we should all listen to Danny Devito and Michael Keaton when they were making comments about the election/candidates here in the states?
Spoiler: It was you, asshole.
Quote from: OutRiddled on Fri, 3 Mar 2017, 04:41
I had no problem at all with that scene. It was just a nice little preview of what's to come in Justice League. I don't see how it's worse than the post-credit scene in Iron Man (tbh I found that scene stupid).
Agree with you there, OutRiddled. The footage itself is what counts to me. We see Aquaman swimming around, Barry Allen stopping a crime using super speed and the creation of Cyborg. That's substantial. I also like that it brings Lex into the story - he has been researching these people as well. Film is about being economical and getting a lot across in a short space of time, so it works for me as well.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 1 Mar 2017, 00:34
If you don't want any possible spoilers, look away.
There's a rumor that:
Wonder Woman apparently starts in the present day with Bruce Wayne emailing Diana Prince when she's in Paris. He is trying to get her help in recruiting a group of meta-humans to form the Justice League. She then decides to tell him the story of the first time she came across mankind in 1918, when the rest of the film is set. By the end of the film, she agrees to join him.
Last year, a Wonder Woman set photo alluding to Batman's cameo in the film, appeared on Twitter. The picture showed Gadot standing next to a Wayne Enterprises bank truck during a scene in Paris.
I suspected this could happen. Hopefully something like this eventuates.
*Spoilery response*
If this is the case, I can swing with it. It really depends on who writes Wonder Woman, as alot of writers tend to want to retcon her continuity, or practically 'start over' once they have the reigns, but in a pretty good number of comics, I would personally have a difficult time seeing Diana completely sitting out something as horrible as WW2. Especially if she was at all aware of the atrocities of something like the Holocaust. I understand that the primary reason the DCEU Wonder Woman has long since disappeared in the world was
because of the horrors and love lost during WW1, and if we're going to go with that narrative, then I can see Diana still remaining halfheartedly reluctant in fully embracing her role as Wonder Woman again. It shouldn't take alot of convincing from Batfleck, and I doubt it will, but Wondy explaining why she chose to walk away from mankind, which was just alluded to in BvS and not elaborated upon much, works enough for me.
IN OTHER WONDER WOMAN NEWS:Looks like Wonder Woman's Animated 2009 DTV movie is getting a R rated cut this year....
http://screenrant.com/r-rated-wonder-woman-animated/
Not sure what this can really
add to that animated movie, which I thought was fine, but ok. Would be nice if WB loads this up with a feature length documentary going over the history of Wonder Woman in DC Comics, with interviews with any and all comic creators who have worked on her book. Kinda like what the original 2-disc theatrical cut of 2003's Daredevil had, which featured an extra that interviews Writers/Artists who worked on Daredevil thru the years, or the feature length doc on Fantastic Four comics from the 2007 SE of Tim Story's FF. That and the Jack Kirby Doc was pretty much the only best things about that SE anyways.
I didn't forget the 2009 animated movie, which I think is the best WW movie so far. The upcoming movie is actually the third WW movie, if you count the tv pilot for the 70s show as well. I won't count the Kathy Lee Crosby version, as that has little to do with the character.
I think the new movie will be good, but I'm a DCEU fan and I liked BvS and SS.
Final trailer is here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9On72iaEL0
(https://cnet3.cbsistatic.com/img/R06YXsyxLfHcRN3D22bIBDE91HM=/fit-in/970x0/2017/03/11/bbc42f49-1d4d-4bd0-b0ab-a677b45e90fd/wonderwomanposter.jpg)
I have a feeling this will be one of those movies I adore and rips my heart out at the same time.
I can't wait for this! :)
Looking forward to this for sure!
Just when I thought my IQ couldn't have dropped any further from reading people's overreactions about the DCEU in the last three and a half years, this has taken the cake.
Some clickbait sites are making a big deal about some "angry reactions" (possibly from feminists if true) over Wonder Woman showing hairless armpits while lifting a car in the latest trailer. I wish I was kidding, but sadly, I'm not. Look it up on Google, read it and weep.
I give up on humanity.
These are fantasy films based on characters with near-impossible and certainly highly idealised body proportions and complexions. It may not be very PC or whatever, but it stands to reason that these characters, female and male, will generally be better-looking and thus stronger, more athletically-built, smoother skinned, and, yes, bereft of a profusion of hair in unflattering places, than the average person in the real world, or even for that matter the average character in a regular, non-fantastical/non-superhero movie.
So yeah, the complaints about Wonder Woman's hairless armpits strike me as absurd (and no doubt that makes me a 'sexist'), but it isn't double-standards. One would expect, and more often than not get, similar body-perfect standards for the male characters in these films. That's just the nature of the superhero genre.
Some people have way too much free time on their hands.
I did like the latest trailer. We're going to see young Diana, just as we've seen the childhoods of Clark and Bruce. And I think that's nifty because it really gets to the roots of the characters. I'm hopeful about the action scenes too.
Quote from: johnnygobbs on Tue, 21 Mar 2017, 13:28
These are fantasy films
Yes,
fantasy, I think people forget that.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Tue, 21 Mar 2017, 12:24
Just when I thought my IQ couldn't have dropped any further from reading people's overreactions about the DCEU in the last three and a half years, this has taken the cake.
Some clickbait sites are making a big deal about some "angry reactions" (possibly from feminists if true) over Wonder Woman showing hairless armpits while lifting a car in the latest trailer. I wish I was kidding, but sadly, I'm not. Look it up on Google, read it and weep.
I give up on humanity.
Un. f***ing. Believable.
Well, actually, in this day and age, anything is believable. I give up too. My generation is just...ugh. f***ing MORONS.
Wonder Woman in the upcoming Justice League film.
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages1.hiboox.com%2Fimages%2F1217%2F5de7913ec3c9c0af8f048067ac97671e.jpg&hash=205989e74977e8b5b444608dce0789e175bd40f0)
It's got to be my favorite comic book costume for a female character alongside BR's Catwoman. It's pretty much perfect.
So gorgeous.
Quote from: Catwoman on Thu, 23 Mar 2017, 14:26
Un. f***ing. Believable.
Well, actually, in this day and age, anything is believable. I give up too. My generation is just...ugh. f***ing MORONS.
It gets even worse. A website called The AV Club wrote a stupid article analysing how the Wonder Woman JL poster...looks like she's pissing fire. And use that as an excuse to attack Zack Snyder by suggesting he must've Photoshopped the posters himself.
They think the poster is awkward. No, AV Club, it is YOU who are the ones are awkward. Goddamn mentally deficient, clickbait hungry wankers.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 25 Mar 2017, 08:01
A website called The AV Club wrote a stupid article analysing how the Wonder Woman JL poster...looks like she's pissing fire.
lol
WW is the best represented hero of the DCEU.
New Stills.
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fprem1.hiboox.com%2Fimages%2F1317%2Fabecaf108092d1d39914e96e844ec654.jpg&hash=d76c661000c8b6025b6386b049efbd6b615c9c0a)
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fprem1.hiboox.com%2Fimages%2F1317%2Feca342b8aa6728217b61d3599eb90250.jpg&hash=68c165ec828f076f491fe4c7cd633253484c1588)
^
The second still appears to be a scene when the photograph seen in BvS was first taken. 8)
It would be outstanding if they include the origin of the BvS photo in the film.
A new GIF post from the beautiful Gal via Twitter:
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fprem0.hiboox.com%2Fimages%2F1317%2F1d3d9830b6e700509d8adf5d7b918701.gif&hash=81b524f95327828e30a09a930c2ef46b98941274)
Thanks Joker.
Now here's my GIFts to you.
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F68.media.tumblr.com%2F0e9273087c0048edca97600bdd6e67ea%2Ftumblr_ompbw17Na71tr7uilo7_400.gif&hash=3b350526131d3f73a87e27aa3044dd8da0e407d0) (https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F68.media.tumblr.com%2F7940c9cd1d5594ba16e43176b8d147b6%2Ftumblr_ompbw17Na71tr7uilo1_400.gif&hash=6dc758bd363af1ebc067f927e7f69f6d62e2c249)
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F68.media.tumblr.com%2Fa86ea8bee0bac0c5c4bdff5987b3b9dc%2Ftumblr_og4yxgDHQK1uorz8zo4_r1_250.gif&hash=c86542a48db877db2983dacc7ca8b8f3935373f4) (https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F68.media.tumblr.com%2Fc1a1ddada0fef5a540e6254f80b1422e%2Ftumblr_og2uxrggEk1qjn9sbo4_400.gif&hash=ff2aa5e4d5ac93e286e29102638697428ed489bc)
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F68.media.tumblr.com%2F12a03b2e272a049e57110b13d8b90d40%2Ftumblr_oasagp1iip1s26dsio8_250.gif&hash=ddcc31302cc76db5671a6ce663dc3ac863d04865) (https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F68.media.tumblr.com%2Ff9a64d9bc7758c82361adda2ab9762d0%2Ftumblr_oasagp1iip1s26dsio2_250.gif&hash=c5cf6ed93ea3f79bad388847a0bd833d74cb3ec4)
And this stunner is best saved until last. ;)
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F68.media.tumblr.com%2Fae8be27a10e15dfe284a63609206d331%2Ftumblr_onbs99DEMf1uorz8zo1_r1_540.gif&hash=526aedd555f47be18bbf9c32da4ce17470fe0062)
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages3.hiboox.com%2Fimages%2F4515%2Fdfe8b2f4fe44616ee7bfa9669ee3c2b1.jpg&hash=6ad68c6d286604ede24b1766c3883b2e27c2e273)
Io donna magazine (italy) april 2017
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages2.hiboox.com%2Fimages%2F1417%2F043e7799fc16a2a1fec3a887d3ca2460.jpg&hash=18bf8bd74813390c2efc85fc47857ff741470f32)
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages2.hiboox.com%2Fimages%2F1417%2F8b7f6edb2e678f28e5bbe7cb4d87f3f2.jpg&hash=aacc05a6a281e5d368e292f8a93e4fa7d95f2bc9)
W Magazine 2017
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages0.hiboox.com%2Fimages%2F1517%2F39f3c032e87ba82e13a098424c97165f.jpg&hash=c9ff6bc4520eff8f4642e7695f1e235f090a10fd)
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages0.hiboox.com%2Fimages%2F1517%2Fa3bcb54869af56ca9e3629637bffda64.jpg&hash=65f39c388455d796aa2e973aefcb68e9ac8f8368)
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages0.hiboox.com%2Fimages%2F1517%2Fdad7a9b2794fd1c5714097b4e91337f4.jpg&hash=c9df443d9968406334554027973bc8cb056e3690)
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages0.hiboox.com%2Fimages%2F1517%2F0cf6b5f979be3ff9c73b868d7e725d58.jpg&hash=1ed9f0ad9a99f5f23c722fc3f976a0ac066e247f)
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages0.hiboox.com%2Fimages%2F1517%2F169c10064e426c421862861a0b9605d3.jpg&hash=a13841621bde796061c572a09399ed8e4b5327ea)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNqgDa1CV08
More Concept Artwork.
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages4.hiboox.com%2Fimages%2F1617%2F518edb5a1e8e815e31fd3100c99695ca.jpg&hash=d08bfe2037f57918623ea1a2a144a1b978f7e625)
Posted on Gal's Twitter page, images of a Wonder Woman inspired photo shoot Gal did 6-7 years ago!
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages4.hiboox.com%2Fimages%2F1617%2F60324a4e4037b4d2c27aa38d6653f392.jpg&hash=1d5bb4ae3c2dfa0b8a26b6295f2945017548a718)
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages4.hiboox.com%2Fimages%2F1617%2F24cff342a0bba7d398531d0532736576.jpg&hash=072f687249a4f6e1f3204198482f2be532412482)
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages4.hiboox.com%2Fimages%2F1617%2F79131db733494a1210a231d7c65f6359.jpg&hash=a0a266d35ac13a74f28ce5b0f6f615ee05dbb1ec)
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages4.hiboox.com%2Fimages%2F1617%2Fb62a2e76407e213f63f8e36f548a96d3.jpg&hash=397b9185b20f0a9b6bb011984da8987fdd58216b)
I can tell if someone is fake. And I don't get that impression with Gal. She appears genuinely friendly, and because she's not neck deep in Hollyweird like other actors, she's not tainted by it. She seems to have a joyful innocence about her. I can see she's thankful to be apart of the DCEU. She never planned on being an actress, so take that into consideration. I think she wanted to be a chereographer originally. As a former combat instructor in the Israeli army and as a model, I think she's the perfect fit for a character that is all about strength and beauty.
People talk about her limited acting experience, but I see that as a positive. This quote from Gal for instance:
"What's so lovely about Wonder Woman is yes, she has the strength and power of a goddess, but she has the heart and mind of a human. So I play her as I think a woman like me would act in the situations she's going through. You treat her as a normal woman who happens to be fantastic and almighty."
During BvS I never thought 'Gee, Gadot is wooden and shouldn't have been cast in the first place." If aspects of Gal's own humanity and warmth shines through she doesn't really need to act. Gal really only has to channel herself.
I think you and me are going to be at the front of the line when the film opens, Joker. ;)
Spoken like a true Prodigy, TDK!
You get it. And what I mean by that, is that it was incredibly important that not only the right actress to get this part, but the right woman who radiates the beautiful qualities that you specified in your above post. Not just any plastic cookie cutter actress from Hollyweird would have sufficed, and Snyder deserves no end of thanks for understanding that. No. This role, which is incredibly iconic within the comic book realm of movies, but has only been
really associated with one actress for decades (Lynda Carter), needed a rigorous vetting process. Just basing the role on mere looks wasn't the way to go, and again, I'm VERY thankful in Snyder in that he was more than willing to buck the system, and that of preconceived notions of fanboys. Which is always a plus. It happened with Affleck, and it would happen with Gale, with the end result being that both were, in my estimation, phenomenal, and so went the constant whining/protesting of their respective casting decisions.
Getting back to Gal Gadot, yeah, I wholeheartedly agree that she does indeed come across as a genuine nice person, and has always presented herself, whether it be in interviews or on a social media platform, with decency, decorum, and professionalism. Which is becoming an increasingly rare trait in Hollyweird these days. Needless to say, her husband is a
very lucky man. "
That I can tell you!"
Quote from: The Dark KnightI think you and me are going to be at the front of the line when the film opens, Joker. ;)
For sure! We got this. 8)
Quote from: The Joker on Mon, 24 Apr 2017, 01:41
For sure! We got this. 8)
We don't shiv, spud. We slice n' dice!
More Wonder Woman pictures!
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages0.hiboox.com%2Fimages%2F1817%2F0132a3ba63a34be0c4456126933ffff7.jpg&hash=2f063766e92005c3d1e5c4feb842aa7df86321b8)
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages0.hiboox.com%2Fimages%2F1817%2F446012d8b00039044c8baaf655af3664.jpg&hash=f8e30d9244ce2060254c956eb85281d4d4b53edc)
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fprem1.hiboox.com%2Fimages%2F1817%2F3ce726da3af7d4f93ffd5591ba70be56.jpg&hash=c18ccd1db504a44fc4611b5e2b0b37e6c32e438c)
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fprem1.hiboox.com%2Fimages%2F1817%2F129289a567d0a28892f670b20fece44c.jpg&hash=e1a6df4183eaa7b2c47f96b5fac52bdb4d7f7f1f)
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fprem1.hiboox.com%2Fimages%2F1817%2Fb60e2b4cec690d1aa9bbf6a7848280c1.jpg&hash=ad1e3c03e96448a80c1bf78a29f667fcf9d418be)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSkAnlqcZTU
Word around the campfire is the film may be 2 hours 21 minutes in length:
http://www.cosmicbooknews.com/wonder-woman-movie-runtime-rumored
One Month Away!
(https://s25.postimg.org/4itdvpy33/Poster_1_Month.jpg)
Plus some magazine covers.
(https://s25.postimg.org/nlcrin93j/Mag_Sci_Fi_Now.jpg)
(https://s25.postimg.org/8qo64gzin/Mag-_Teaser_Cover.jpg)
And a new poster:
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F0407D96.jpg&hash=5f3ef28046c989cfeb8373d2c384aadfce126c0b)
Collage Time
(https://s25.postimg.org/qc4gyszbj/Poster_Collage_May2017.jpg)
This new TV spot is the best so far.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tp7ZmDeElA
Honestly, I may end up liking this more than Man of Steel.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 4 May 2017, 06:54
Honestly, I may end up liking this more than Man of Steel.
That's a tall order for me, but at the same time, I'm not going to flat out deny that it may be the same case for me as well!
Wonder Woman News:Good to hear Lynda's planning on attending the Wonder Woman Premiere.
(https://s25.postimg.org/g1ay8hi33/Untitled.jpg)
(https://s25.postimg.org/4ax0r3pan/654.gif)
Quote from: The Joker on Thu, 4 May 2017, 21:42
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 4 May 2017, 06:54
Honestly, I may end up liking this more than Man of Steel.
That's a tall order for me, but at the same time, I'm not going to flat out deny that it may be the same case for me as well!
The new TV spot I posted on the other pages is just perfect. If they manage to capture that tone, it'll be an amazing film. That TV spot was full of charm and style. The action looked top notch. The dialogue was fun. The visuals were on point. The darkness is still there.
Shut up and take my money.
Nice to know Lynda got a invite and is attending the premiere.
(https://s25.postimg.org/g1ay8hi33/Untitled.jpg)
& the official running time.
(https://s25.postimg.org/cdqni691r/Runtime_2_hrs_21_mins.jpg)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ceqenCjAgI
Good to have that runtime confirmed.
More promotional material:
(https://s25.postimg.org/5rmtrc1u7/Poster-_May2017_V1.jpg)
(https://s25.postimg.org/5rvjzfznz/GIF1.gif)
(https://s25.postimg.org/5swrkr3nz/C_k_IO37_UAAAvtf_C.jpg)
Those wonderful legs ....
If the critics hate the movie there's a good chance I'll love the film.
(https://a.disquscdn.com/get?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2F3oriNY8B1vjkoUUKVW%2Fsource.gif&key=wj08mdYrIIYSim7xCuVZbg&w=600&h=217)
(https://media.giphy.com/media/3og0IKXBI0F8PrILsc/source.gif)
I saw a 'critic' outright say he'd give a film a poor review just because he wasn't put into a fancy hotel suite. ::)
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Mon, 15 May 2017, 01:20
If the critics hate the movie there's a good chance I'll love the film.
I saw a 'critic' outright say he'd give a film a poor review just because he wasn't put into a fancy hotel suite. ::)
I use to, once upon a time, have some interest in critics, but after example after example of blatant showings of group think and positive reviews because a movie is simply pushing a agenda, my reverence for them is absolutely zilch. They essentially CNN'ed themselves.
Director Patty Jenkins with Geoff Johns, and one of the Holy Grails:
(https://s25.postimg.org/4gfj28n67/Patty-_Geoff-_WWComic.jpg)
Snyder with Gal at the China Premiere:
(https://s25.pixxxels.org/47dcykkzz/Gal_Snyder_Premiere_Japan.jpg)
& this was just too good
not to post! :D
(https://s25.pixxxels.org/97at6iqmn/WW-_Japanese_Premiere_Snyder_is_GOD.jpg)
Quote from: The Joker on Tue, 16 May 2017, 04:12
I use to, once upon a time, have some interest in critics, but after example after example of blatant showings of group think and positive reviews because a movie is simply pushing a agenda, my reverence for them is absolutely zilch. They essentially CNN'ed themselves.
The outrages have become white noise. I don't think they're converting anybody. It only really appeals to the people who already hated whatever is being bashed in the first place. Others either yawn or fight back against the bias.
Quote from: The Joker on Tue, 16 May 2017, 04:12
Snyder with Gal at the China Premiere:
Love it. I'm
really looking forward to Wonder Woman, but Snyder is my main man. ;D
(https://s25.postimg.org/y7q34380f/Poster-_WW-_Lasso_May2017.jpg)
I've been searching the net and I found these comic influences.
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.tinypic.com%2Fjv2mie.jpg&hash=6377747915e788c90b024b18210268575c565a46)
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi63.tinypic.com%2Fzjv3u0.png&hash=5d1c7140e6b366471d487979c922e607a8700430)
Pretty darn cool.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Tue, 16 May 2017, 05:22
Quote from: The Joker on Tue, 16 May 2017, 04:12
I use to, once upon a time, have some interest in critics, but after example after example of blatant showings of group think and positive reviews because a movie is simply pushing a agenda, my reverence for them is absolutely zilch. They essentially CNN'ed themselves.
The outrages have become white noise. I don't think they're converting anybody. It only really appeals to the people who already hated whatever is being bashed in the first place. Others either yawn or fight back against the bias.
Well, it appears that Wonder Woman is going to buck the trend, because the early critical reactions are overwhelmingly positive.
Source: www.gamesradar.com/the-dc-movie-ive-been-waiting-for-the-first-wonder-woman-reviews-are-in-and-theyre-overwhelmingly-positive/
But in any case, I ask: who the hell cares? I saw some of these critics taking the opportunity to have a go at Zack Snyder on Twitter - unaware that the guy is co-credited for coming for the movie's plot. What utter morons.
I don't love Snyder, but for some people to suggest he hates women clearly shows that they haven't been paying attention.
Whether any of us will like WW or not will depend on each of our own opinion.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 19 May 2017, 05:36
I've been searching the net and I found these comic influences.
Pretty darn cool.
Sweet.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Fri, 19 May 2017, 13:37
Well, it appears that Wonder Woman is going to buck the trend, because the early critical reactions are overwhelmingly positive.
I think there are several factors at play here.
I wouldn't be surprised if the film gets good reviews, only for the worm to turn on Zack Snyder's Justice League. The narrative will then become 'Patty Jenkins succeeded and Zack failed yet again. Patty needs to direct all the DCEU films it seems'.
There's also another factor - the political one. Patty Jenkins being a woman who directed the (potentially) first ever critically acclaimed female superhero film could be a way for people with agendas to not only attack against Snyder, but to promote more female-oriented action films BY women. Now, there's absolutely nothing wrong about the latter part of what I've said, but it's pretty sh*tty of these people use prop a film at the expense of somebody else.
Besides, if there is one thing Ghostbusters 2016 taught me, there is a clear divide between critics with agendas and mass audiences. Clearly, a lot of critics wanted that film to do well for the sake it had an all-female cast. A lot of fans dismissed the film because they said it wasn't any good - despite the small number of misogynists rallying against it in the beginning. And it shows in the box office. That's another reason why I take the early reaction as a grain of salt.
Of course, I still think WW will be a great film. I'm only very skeptical of what the critics will claim.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 20 May 2017, 01:41
There's also another factor - the political one. Patty Jenkins being a woman who directed the (potentially) first ever critically acclaimed female superhero film could be a way for people with agendas to not only attack against Snyder, but to promote more female-oriented action films BY women. Now, there's absolutely nothing wrong about the latter part of what I've said, but it's pretty sh*tty of these people use prop a film at the expense of somebody else.
Yep. I'm guessing their love of being a SJW overrode their love of hating on DCEU films.
More new images:
(https://s25.postimg.org/3ohx05pan/Poster_WW_Sword_Crotch.jpg)
(https://s25.postimg.org/xq96cu3in/Poster_WW_Lift1.jpg)
(https://s25.postimg.org/e68vyno0f/Poster-_Arm_WW.jpg)
And to add to the current topic of discussion, I see that Wonder Woman is getting alot of praise from the "professional" critics, and internet critics alike, but as I've stated previously, the praise will not, and does not have any sort of weight in my perception and, once I've actually seen the film, overall review. The warm reception doesn't get me excited, nor does it make me feel prideful as a follower of the movie, and fan of the character.
Perhaps I might have felt differently if it wasn't for the unashamedly agenda filled praise/hatred we've seen towards particular films in recent years, but that's obviously the current climate we live in, and these instances cannot and should not be ignored. The critical embargo being negative/positive, especially where the DCEU is concerned, has become a non factor, and these guys have themselves to thank for that.
Like the other two DCEU films, I'm sure there will be stuff in there that I might not like (depending on how much New52 history that's borrowed), but at the same time, I'm hoping there will be alot in there that I do find to be pleasing.
Can't wait to finally see it!
Just got back from seeing it, I liked it a lot. This is in general a crowd pleasing type of film, I think it will do well.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Fri, 19 May 2017, 13:37But in any case, I ask: who the hell cares? I saw some of these critics taking the opportunity to have a go at Zack Snyder on Twitter - unaware that the guy is co-credited for coming for the movie's plot. What utter morons.
Writing the plot doesn't mean much, unless the script itself was written by the same person. The script and direction is what gets the final quality say generally. Have a very great day!
God bless you all!
Quote from: The Joker on Wed, 31 May 2017, 23:15
More new images:
(https://s25.postimg.org/3ohx05pan/Poster_WW_Sword_Crotch.jpg)
I like this poster the most. Clean, and an elegant pose.
Quote from: OutRiddled on Thu, 1 Jun 2017, 02:47
Just got back from seeing it, I liked it a lot. This is in general a crowd pleasing type of film, I think it will do well.
Cool beans. How do you rate out of all the DCEU films to date?
Quote from: OutRiddled on Thu, 1 Jun 2017, 02:47
Just got back from seeing it, I liked it a lot. This is in general a crowd pleasing type of film, I think it will do well.
Glad to hear that. I'm going to write a quick review once I see the movie. Look out for it.
Can't wait to see this.
Finally a female-led superhero movie that looks like a hit! About time!
Good work DCEU. And credit to Zack Snyder for casting Gal and setting up this Cinematic Universe.
Let's see how the positive response affects the rest of the DCEU, Justice League especially. Yes, the credit of casting Gal Gadot and creating this version of WW belongs to Zack Snyder.
Paul has kindly posted my review to the main page:
http://www.batman-online.com/features/2017/6/2/golden-gal-makes-wonder-woman-shine
Due to genre fatigue, I've been on something of a CBM diet of late. I skipped Logan and Guardians of the Galaxy 2, and I had intended to skip Wonder Woman. But curiosity got the better of me, what with it being a DC movie and all, so I went to see it this afternoon. Here are my thoughts.
Bottom line, it was very good. I think it's by far the best DCEU entry to date, and by quite a large margin. And not to parrot the critics, but I agree with the consensus that it's the best DC film in general since The Dark Knight. The two most obvious MCU films to compare it with are Thor and Captain America: The First Avenger; the former because of the origin story grounded in mythology, and the latter because of the historical setting. But I felt Wonder Woman surpassed both of those movies.
This surprised me, because The First Avenger is my favourite MCU origin film. Much as I like that movie, I feel it collapses under the weight of its FX-driven set pieces in the second half. It also dilutes its historical atmosphere by flooding the battle scenes with anachronistic sci-fi artillery (lasers, super tanks, those Hydra bomber jet things, etc). By contrast Wonder Woman has a much stronger final act in which the action is complimented by dramatic beats that engage your emotions, not just your bloodlust (SPOILERS: I predicted the plot twist about the villain's true identity, but I thought it worked more satisfyingly here than the similar twist in Batman Begins END SPOILERS). And unlike The First Avenger, Wonder Woman stays true to the technological limitations of its historical context. There are no laser guns or futuristic armoured suits. Just bullets, bayonets and hand grenades.
On the subject of setting, I've always loved historical super hero films. But I've never seen one set during World War I until now. WW2, sure. But not the war to end all wars. So on that score alone, the film showed me something I hadn't seen before. The fight choreography with the magical lasso was also something I've not seen in this sort of film. The fact it's a good superhero movie headlined by a female character is itself a novelty. In a cinematic genre that's rapidly growing stale, this movie stands out as surprisingly fresh. The costumes and set design conspire to create a strong wartime ambience. Jenkins' direction is solid, though she does overdo the slow-mo a bit for my tastes. I'm also not a huge fan of the CG action scenes or desaturated cinematography. But for a film that cost $149 million, they got decent mileage out of the budget. Wonder Woman has something else most modern superhero films lack, and that's a strong sense of place. We get this first in the beautiful Mediterranean locales of Themyscira, and then again with the harsh war torn landscapes of the Western Front. There's a powerful contrast between the two worlds that highlights Diana's progression from sheltered innocence, to wearied cynicism, and finally to renewed optimism.
The influence of Superman: The Movie is very apparent. There's a nice nod to Donner's film in the scene where Diana saves Steve from being shot in an alleyway.
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F3PWuZYj.gif&hash=fd326a12aa03dbd7bf52175e93f69d08526ecb0c)
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FkJR4pCU.gif&hash=2c1046d80f87e8abfa17589d86b488ec22032e59)
One of the things I love about Superman: The Movie is its structure. That film has a linear narrative divided into chapters of around 20-40 minutes in length, each covering a different aspect of the Superman mythology: CHAPTER ONE – the destruction of Krypton; CHAPTER TWO – Superboy/Smallville; CHAPTER THREE – Superman's debut in Metropolis; CHAPTER FOUR – the romance between Lois and Superman; CHAPTER FIVE – Superman's first battle against Lex Luthor. It's structured like a 5-issue miniseries. Wonder Woman has a similarly neat linear structure that covers much of her respective mythology. CHAPTER ONE – Diana's origin on Themyscira; CHAPTER TWO – Diana journeys to the outside world; CHAPTER THREE – Wonder Woman on the Western Front; CHAPTER FOUR – Wonder Woman vs. Ares. And throughout all these chapters, the romance with Steve Trevor serves as a through line. It's an efficiently structured and well-paced story. It's also tonally balanced and avoids the all too common CBM pitfall of being one-note. There are moments of darkness, but there are also moments of joy. It doesn't take itself too seriously, but it also doesn't resort to self parody. It hits the right dramatic notes in the right order.
Wonder Woman herself sits atop the DCEU league tables as their most charismatic hero to date, and a lot of that is down to Gal Gadot. I've never seen her in anything outside of the DCEU, but she manages to convey strength, charm and naiveté in the correct balance. As I mentioned before, she has a broad character arc that takes her from adventurous child to veteran Amazon warrior. One of the film's central themes is personal responsibility. Diana and Steve both feel compelled to act out of compassion for the suffering of innocents. Diana believes Ares is responsible for inciting mankind to violence, and that it's therefore her responsibility to save mankind by killing him. When she discovers mankind is responsible for its own wickedness – that the war is a product of human nature, not divine manipulation – it breaks her heart and shatters her faith in humanity. That faith is then restored when Steve demonstrates the selfless heroism of the human spirit by SPOILERS sacrificing his own life for the greater good END SPOILERS. This foreshadows Superman's sacrifice at the end of BvS, which further restored Diana's faith in heroes. Her inability to stand by and watch mankind destroy itself during WW1 also foreshadows her proactive response to Doomsday's rampage in BvS. Wonder Woman can't bear to watch innocents suffer. She cares too much. This makes her an easy hero to root for.
Another thing I liked about this film was its lack of dependence on the wider DCEU. There are no forced cameos, no plugs for other upcoming DC films. It works as a self-contained, uncluttered standalone project. The closest it gets to referencing other superheroes is the letter from Bruce Wayne, and that feels totally organic and unobtrusive. It's a pleasant way of bookending the story and demonstrates the proper approach to building a shared universe – namely by doing it one piece at a time, not through cluttered ensemble films. Wonder Woman's independence also allows the movie to stand alongside Superman '78 and Batman '89 as a landmark entry in the DC cinematic catalogue. How about releasing those two films in a Trinity DVD set along with Wonder Woman '17?
Of course the film is not perfect. The supporting characters are fine, but none of them really blew me away with their individual storylines. The villains were no worse than what we're accustomed to seeing in modern superhero films, but nor were they any better (though I'd still take Ares over any character from Suicide Squad). Most CG-intensive action scenes leave me cold, and the action in Wonder Woman was for the most part no exception. And while I liked the pacing of the film, I still felt it was a little on the long side. But at the end of the day, none of these issues spoiled the film for me.
BvS demanded its audience be familiar with the source material, which was fine for comic fans but ended up alienating many casual cinemagoers. Wonder Woman doesn't have that problem. It's a fun film with a distinctive setting and likeable characters. The fact they succeeded in not making me hate Steve Trevor (or Chris Pine, for that matter) is itself a huge accomplishment. So yeah, thumbs up. Go see it. I really hope it does well at the box office so Warner Bros will give us more films like this and fewer films like Suicide Squad.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sat, 3 Jun 2017, 21:40And unlike The First Avenger, Wonder Woman stays true to the technological limitations of its historical context. There are no laser guns or futuristic armoured suits. Just bullets, bayonets and hand grenades.
TFA had that too. But the villains also had alien technology to use which they created the lasers from. Though TFA didn't have futuristic armored suits. Have a very great day!
God bless you all!
Quote from: Dagenspear on Sat, 3 Jun 2017, 22:47TFA had that too.
The First Avenger depicted the Axis forces wielding Hydra weaponry far more advanced than any technology available in WW2. Hydra use lasers. The Nazis didn't. The portrayal of 1940s weaponry was not historically accurate.
Quote from: Dagenspear on Sat, 3 Jun 2017, 22:47Though TFA didn't have futuristic armored suits.
German battle dress from WW2:
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.ipernity.com%2F108%2F35%2F68%2F3783568.9743ae9b.640.jpg&hash=3e9f46e4d805b206ff52a05917db16b473317848)
Hydra armour from The First Avenger:
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fifanboy.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F08%2Fwenredmenace.jpg&hash=270abce4788559c20919cba10f992efb63879563)
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvignette3.wikia.nocookie.net%2Fmarvelcinematicuniverse%2Fimages%2F9%2F94%2FHYDRAexo.png%2Frevision%2Flatest%3Fcb%3D20120926234540&hash=2c66355845543a9a7433d521a386a7bc6d1fdf7f)
I saw it this afternoon. Here are some of my thoughts at the moment:
***SPOILERS BELOW, so skim past this post if you don't want to read beyond this point.***Quote
I enjoyed it, and it is a good film...but I do think it's getting overhyped.
Gal Gadot proves she's a better actress than anybody gave her credit for. Charismatic, and shows a childlike naivete that changes over the course of the plot with surprisingly capable acting skill. Not bad for a model.
While I enjoyed Diana's journey into WWI, I couldn't help but feel the conclusion doesn't gel too well with her participation in BvS. If you remember in BvS's ending, Diana had given up on humanity because she saw the horrors of what men were capable of doing. But in this film, she defies Ares' belief that humans are unsalvageable, and Steve Trevor's sacrifice helps fuel her confidence in people. I guess WWI didn't break her faith in humanity then. Something else must've happened, or over the course of the 20th Century, where she gave up until Superman fought Doomsday.
I just like to give a shout to all the critics and say: f*** YOU ALL. Once again, your hypocrisy rears its ugly when you praise another film where the good guy kills, yet you still bitch and complain Snyder's depictions of Superman and Batman as 'murderers'. Not to mention that one could've easily mistaken the film as Snyder's because it certainly looks like his. Not to mention the fact he helped co-write the story...but of course, they still can't help themselves by throwing him under the bus in their reviews.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 2 Jun 2017, 12:33
Paul has kindly posted my review to the main page:
http://www.batman-online.com/features/2017/6/2/golden-gal-makes-wonder-woman-shine
Thanks for writing it for the site TDK
SPOILER FILLED REVIEW
Let's be clear, as I have stated in a previous post, I had my concerns with Wonder Woman following the YUGE clusterf*ck that was Ghostbusters, and how blatant the critics completely bent over without any KY for it. HOWEVER, I am relieved to say that I was wonderfully and pleasantly surprised by just how good it actually was!
Wonder Woman, as a film, brings yet another unique DCEU cinematic interpretation that's every bit as valid as any other worthwhile interpretation we've seen thus far.
Wonder Woman, as a film, balanced the delicate act of being serious, with the stakes being conveyed as high, which is important, and yet had many moments of levity as well. However, it didn't go too FAR with the levity, which was VERY MUCH APPRECIATED. Nor did it oversimplfy things. I think one of the major reasons why the comparisons between Wonder Woman, and MCU's Captain America 1st Avenger falls flat, is that WW focused more on the horrors of war and less on the battle between a very specific evil dude and a very specific good guy. That's what Diana certainly *thought* she was doing but it's clear throughout the film to both us and the people around her that, unfortunately, the world isn't that simple.
As a guy who watches both the DCEU and MCU movies, I can assure you that I have no interest in the DCEU going Marvel-lite. I've said this before, and I'll say it again, there needs to be noticeable differences that make both universes distinct from one another. I'm happy to say that Wonder Woman did indeed keep the faith of what Snyder and company brought to us back in 2013, and is very much in keeping with that specific and unique vision. Unlike the overtly Disney family friendly fare the MCU has been consistently releasing, I could actually take the film seriously without a abundance of humor/jokes being thrown around during battles and such. Which in effect, consistently downplays the stakes. With WW, and like MOS/BvS, the decision to NOT go that route was, again, a treat to experience.
I am a dude who loved Man of Steel, really liked Batman vs. Superman, and enjoyed Suicide Squad. Wonder Woman has SS beat, and is right up there with MOS/BvS. Narratively speaking, Wonder Woman actually answers the question it raises. Is mankind worth it? In Man of Steel, I'm confident Clark is building to that conclusion. In Batman Vs. Superman, Bruce comes to believe it, but I think the film itself leaves the question open to some extent. Wonder Woman's answer, her own and the film's, is a incredibly loud, YES.
The wide eyed honesty. Humanity is worth it, but this movie makes no attempt to sugarcoat the flaws within the human condition. Humanity is worth it in spite of its flaws and, oh boy, are those flaws laid bare in this thing. From the war itself (not driven by Ares) to the broken and hurt group that accompanies Diana on her mission ... this is a film that is not afraid to show even its heroes as human and struggling to cope. Particular kudos to the ragtag group of soldiers Steve and Wonder Woman travel with. I got more out of them, than I ever did the "Howling Comandos" in Captain America: The First Avenger. One character clearly has PTSD (though OBVIOUSLY not referred to as such). We see shots of wounded soldiers being taken away from the front lines, and it's not glamorized. Nor is it black and white. While I can't speak much to the historical accuracy, it very much seems like they chose World War I very purposefully to fit the story.
Gal Gadot carrying the film as Wonder Woman!?! Well, she owns this role. No doubt about it. Not only is she a stunning visual beauty to watch, but she decisively played the role and was absolutely amazing. As good as she was in BvS, she's even BETTER in WW. Diana's real contributions are to the human side of things, inspiring Steve and his friends to keep going- Steve to sacrifice himself, and his friends to stay on beyond the time they'd agreed to. Without Diana, the gas attack plan happens and the war goes on.
One thing I very much enjoyed is that while the film conveyed that Diana is a definitely a fish out of water, they never actually go too far with it just to amp up the humor. Sure, she jumps to conclusions, but at the same time she's intelligent. She has read books. She's a quick study, and otherwise expresses about 1000% more feelings than other cinematic superheroes we've seen which come across as who can out snark who. As a consequence, I found Gal's Diana more relatable than alot of other heroes. I liked how giddy she was by just seeing a baby. To me, that highlighted the genuine warmness of the character that can oftentimes get lost when the whole 'warrior' aspect is too focused on.
The Amazons were spectacular. This movie avoided the goofy girl power tropes that I was quietly dreading, and presented Amazons that were literally awesome. Queen Hippolyta played by Connie Nielsen was very good, actually better than I was expecting, and Antiope played by Robin Wright was excellent. For what little screen time she had, she was memorable.
Steve Trevor played by Chris Pine was very much his own character, with his own heroic sacrifice, and did not have to be led to the moment by the heroine. This, was especially noteworthy. During the final airport battle with Ares, as soon as he saw the plane, he knew what he had to do. And while Diana didn't help with that, they still helped each other. She taught Steve that you can't just focus on the goal and ignore the suffering of others, and he taught her that while mankind was flawed, it was still worthy of being saved. There was a level of balance between the two that I honestly wasn't expecting given how Hollywood is not shy about pushing some sort of agenda, and the fact that this film deviated from all that, I appreciated it.
The No Mans Land scene was one of the high points of the movie. Tone, direction, editing, score, the buildup to it, all of it was perfect. Though I have to admit, if I was a German soldier, sitting in a trench for months, and saw a woman bash a mortar shell aside with her shield ... At that point I would just have to assume I'd finally cracked! :p
The final airport fight with Ares was also magnificent. The cinematography, the pacing, the emotion, the dramatic high stakes, just fantastic. Honestly, this makes the airport scene in CA Civil War look kiddish by comparison.
Speaking of Ares, I did like him, and how he figured into the plot, but having said that, I think I would have probably liked him to be more passive, either Promethian in that he's been around trying to subtlety help humanity, perhaps for nefarious reasons (humanity is destroying itself too quickly and he needs a bigger war for reasons), or just dormant, and it's only the War to End All Wars that woke him from his slumber. However this version works very well within the narrative of the film. Ares being responsible for the deaths of the gods matches myths where Zeus is consistantly concerned where one of his sons will destroy him as he did Cronus.
So yeah, Ares as a rebellious @sshole fits great. The interpretation the film offers of the Gods is unique, and came across to me as very Christian-influenced, but considering we're talking about the Gods within the Marston/Wonder Woman mythology, differences from classical interpretation is very much on par for the course. It's the story of a supreme Creator and a lone rebel (albeit one who, in this shocking upset, wins). The other gods don't get named, let alone given a role in the story. Yeah Sacrificing Zeus doesn't come off as particularly in character with Homer's Zeus, however it does seem far more on par with the Pietas of Virgil's Jupiter. Ares has, and does work as a villain. Sure, he's not the honorable Mars but there's plenty where he's basically an bully who constantly jumps into fights and gets beaten up by the superior Athena.
In classic WW comics, it's basically Aphrodite as the Big Good, and Ares as the Big Bad, with Diana as a messiah-type figure. In the Post-Crisis era, it was Artemis replacing Aphrodite. With the film, they kinda just replaced Aphrodite/Artemis with Zeus. Speaking of Zeus, with Wonder Woman, Zeus ended up feeling like a very Christian God; he's one of only three mentioned by name (although props that the third one is Hestia), and his role is basically to be a wise and good and noble and knowing Creator.
With the Gods, the decision to remove Aphrodite and other traditional patrons of the Amazons is kind of a weird choice... which only leads me theorize if this choice is something planned by Johns/Snyder/Jenkins to the expanded DC cinematic universe?
Since Kirby's New Gods are apparently part of the future plan, is this a possible future reference to the "time when the old gods died?".
Going back to the other villains who are not Ares, I felt the General Ludendorff character was incredibly one note. I didn't necessarily dislike him, but at the same time, he suffered in coming across like a 1960's Bond villain. Doctor Poison was more interesting, even though we're given even less time with her. I did like how both of them were both human; warmongering, ruthless, ready-to-gas-thousands humans; influenced and inspired by Ares... but ultimately, still humans, and in definitely in charge of their own actions.
With the movie origin of Wonder woman, well, I am biased. I prefer the creator's intent, and would have rathered them just stick with the Clay origin. Not a negative per say, but just of personal preference. Going the New52 route with Diana's origin where Zeus literally impregnates Hippolyta doesn't really do anything for me. Still, I like to imagine it's Zeus doing so via clay or something. I mean, Myth-Zeus had kids via sunbeam, so .. yeah ... I think he can manage.
All in all, I found Wonder Woman to be a VERY pleasant experience, and very much enjoyed it. The story comes together and feels cohesive by the end of it. The negatives far outweigh the positives, and WW served yet another flavor different from Man of Steel, Batman v Superman, and Suicide Squad. Which I crave. I'm not sure I would put it at #1 within my own personal DCEU rankings, but again, it's pretty close if it's not!
Zack Snyder has posted he is proud of Gal and what was achieved with Wonder Woman.
(https://s25.postimg.org/yxsmljgwf/WW_Art_Snyder_Gal_Proud.jpg)
He has every right to be.
Sorry my comments aren't going to be as detailed as the other folks. (mostly spoiler free, minor spoilers about the beginning of the film in the paragraph in red. )
I'm not a huge fan of the character, I've just never been drawn to her for the similar reasons why I'm not a huge fan of Superman. That being said I enjoyed it quite a bit.
The complaints about DC's films for the last 10 years or so were mainly centered around too much dialogue and no jokes or fun. I'm pleased to say that while you could still levy these complaints towards Wonder Woman are still there, they aren't nearly as bad as the Dark Knight rises or three previous DCEU films. I laughed multiple times which I couldn't say for Man of Steel. It reminded me as a hybrid of the first Captain America and thor movies. The bulk of it is spent during world war one. They do play the 'person out of their element' aspect quite well once Diana leaves Aasgard for Germany. I've been posting here a few times recently how we are lacking the true solo origin
I actually don't have many complaints. One interesting point worthy of discussion on whether or not this is a good or bad thing: you'd probably expect by now connections to the DCEU but there really weren't many. The final conversation between Diana and Bruce when we last saw them is continued near the beginning of this film but that's about it, only about 10-15 minutes of the run time is spent in the present with about one quarter of the film featuring Diana growing up and two thirds during the 1910's. Maybe the big shocker is that there's no credit scenes. Once you see the pair of W's on screen, you are free to go without missing anything further. Again I'm not saying this is a bad thing, the nice thing is that there is no prerequisite to see and understand this film. You'd be fine watching it without seeing any of the other DC films. Also you wont get the vibe that this film is setting up future films. It leaves us with the implication that Wonder Woman has more battles ahead but doesn't have any cliffhangers as to what is next for the character.
Chris Pine dismissed Marvel's Infinity War as an example why he chose to star in Wonder Woman during an interview the other day. He mentions it after 39 seconds into the video below.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qsVB5ZmrD4
Considering this attitude about superheroes fighting never-ending wars, that must explain why he'd rather star as Steve Trevor instead of Hal Jordan, as some people would've preferred. If he were going to star in a film based on a comic, it was never going to be an recurring role.
Ghostbusters: Answer the Fail - $229.1 million in its entire run.
Wonder Woman - $240 million in its first six days.
"B-but-b-but misogyny!"
I liked WW a lot. I still liked BvS and MOS more, but WW is still a great movie. Gal was great.
SS is the odd man out, for me.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sun, 4 Jun 2017, 07:35
While I enjoyed Diana's journey into WWI, I couldn't help but feel the conclusion doesn't gel too well with her participation in BvS.
Nothing in WW contradicts BvS.
The film opened in the present day, and while I'm paraphrasing, she says all men not being good is a lesson she learned the hard way. The final scene of WonderGal jumping into action in full costume also takes place in the present day - after the events of BvS which reinvigorated her sense of heroism. In the WW1 sequences she says "fighting for mankind is less important than being a force for love", which leads me to believe she simply remained in the background right up until she fought Doomsday. If I were WB, I'd set the sequel in modern times as well.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 7 Jun 2017, 19:43
Ghostbusters: Answer the Fail - $229.1 million in its entire run.
Wonder Woman - $240 million in its first six days.
"B-but-b-but misogyny!"
Ha, exactly!
Quote from: Travesty on Wed, 7 Jun 2017, 23:44
I liked WW a lot. I still liked BvS and MOS more, but WW is still a great movie. Gal was great.
SS is the odd man out, for me.
Yeah. MoS, BvS and WW are in another league. All three are top quality.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sun, 11 Jun 2017, 03:19
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sun, 4 Jun 2017, 07:35
While I enjoyed Diana's journey into WWI, I couldn't help but feel the conclusion doesn't gel too well with her participation in BvS.
Nothing in WW contradicts BvS.
The film opened in the present day, and while I'm paraphrasing, she says all men not being good is a lesson she learned the hard way. The final scene of WonderGal jumping into action in full costume also takes place in the present day - after the events of BvS which reinvigorated her sense of heroism. In the WW1 sequences she says "fighting for mankind is less important than being a force for love", which leads me to believe she simply remained in the background right up until she fought Doomsday. If I were WB, I'd set the sequel in modern times as well.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 7 Jun 2017, 19:43
Ghostbusters: Answer the Fail - $229.1 million in its entire run.
Wonder Woman - $240 million in its first six days.
"B-but-b-but misogyny!"
Ha, exactly!
Quote from: Travesty on Wed, 7 Jun 2017, 23:44
I liked WW a lot. I still liked BvS and MOS more, but WW is still a great movie. Gal was great.
SS is the odd man out, for me.
Yeah. MoS, BvS and WW are in another league. All three are top quality.
Great post Dark Knight. BvS takes place 100 years later than WW, I would have complained if the character acted as though the events of both films are taking place the same week escpecially given the character development Diana goes through in WW.
I think the criticisms levied at Suicide Squad and MOS are fair, BvS not so much, the reason I rank that film next to WW is it does finally get running on all cylinders for the last 45 minutes while I felt Suicide Squad never quite finds its footing while MOS's action was long, drawn out, and flawed. Not to mention I hated turning Superman into Batman.
The latest box office estimates are in, and it seems the weekend drop was only 44.6%. For reference, the previous DCEU films had the following drops on their second weekend:
MoS: 64.6%
BvS: 69.1%
SS: 67.4%
Those movies all had bigger opening weekends, but WW is showing stronger legs. The positive reviews and word of mouth are paying off. By time WW finishes its theatrical run, the cumulative worldwide gross of the DCEU should exceed $3 billion.
Quote from: riddler on Sun, 11 Jun 2017, 12:01
I think the criticisms levied at Suicide Squad and MOS are fair
Suicide Squad should've been better. But it still offers a point of difference to the MCU with its concept.
Quote from: riddler on Sun, 11 Jun 2017, 12:01
MOS's action was long, drawn out, and flawed.
I think the idea Man of Steel was an action fest is a myth. We have the Smallville fight, which lasts a couple of minutes at most, and the Metropolis battle at the end, which while destructive, seems to get exaggerated. Those are the two main set pieces of the film, mixed in with a fair share of character development and plot building.
Not that a guy married to Gal Gadot likes to brag ..... :D
(https://s25.postimg.org/zcosaqwcv/Gal-_Hubby_WW_Shirt.jpg)
Great photo. If anybody gets offended by that, they ought to grow up.
I'm noticed the critical reception for Wonder Woman compliments the movie for as a contrast to the "cynical" tone of the previous three DC films, and Diana is more "heroic" than the protagonists of the those movies.
As I mentioned before, I enjoyed Wonder Woman, but there is one thing that still annoys me about its critical acclaim. After all the fuss and outrage that Superman and Batman kills in Snyder's films (despite the fact that both heroes have killed many times in other movies in the past, which suddenly lots of people have conveniently forgotten), here comes Diana joining the war with the intention of killing Ares. And succeeds doing so, including causing the deaths of several Nazi soldiers along the way. And yet, the same people who complained about Superman and Batman killing people have not uttered a single word out of protest against Diana in this film.
Again, it shows great level of hypocrisy from these arrogant detractors, to the point that I find them to be absolutely contemptuous. I don't understand their logic either. They argue Batman and Superman taking lives makes them no better than their enemies...and yet, they cherish Wonder Woman who doesn't share these detractors' ideals either. It appears this doesn't matter to some people however, because all it takes for her to be hopeful in their eyes is "she smiles at people". Now, don't get me wrong, this is not a dig at the film. But the impression I get is as long as characters crack jokes, smile or say "I have one rule", people are suddenly very willing to forgive the hero killing people. These people seriously need to get over themselves and stop with the pretentious selective outrage. Either hold the same criteria fairly for all the films in the genre, or shut up.
If there is a continuous theme going on in the DCEU, it's sending the message that humanity is worth saving, no matter flawed it is. MOS started with Clark Kent unsure of his place in the world and needed to give humanity to prove itself, which he did by working together with the military to defeat Zod. In BvS, despite coming to terms with people's mixed - and sometimes hostile - reaction towards and dealing with a cynical Batman and conniving and evil Lex Luthor, Clark still loved the world too much to let it succumb to Doomsday's ruin. Which in turn, sets an example for Batman to become a better hero. Batman realising the error of his own ways by nearly becoming corrupt because of his inability to cope with tragedy. Wonder Woman defies Ares as Steve Trevor's sacrifice restores her confidence that there is still light and good in people. Even Suicide Squad, a film which I consider to be the worst of the DCEU so far, still has villains getting to together in the end to save the day to gain some sort of redemption. Proving no matter how far they sunk in life, they too are capable of great things.
Hence, it goes to show that the outrage towards the DCEU's treatment of the characters as "cynical" is terribly misunderstood and overblown.
I will be honest. I have never cared if the hero/superhero kills the bad guys. including the film version's of Batman. How many times have we seen movies where the good guy shoots and kills countless henchmen and goons only to get to the villain, the worst one of them all, and say, "No, I'm better than you?" Of course, then that psychopath is put into prison only to escape and kill countless more innocent people. I had no qualms with what Superman had to do to Zod at the end of Man of Steel. The guy was a genocidal maniac who was about to kill innocent bystanders.
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sat, 3 Jun 2017, 23:12The First Avenger depicted the Axis forces wielding Hydra weaponry far more advanced than any technology available in WW2. Hydra use lasers. The Nazis didn't. The portrayal of 1940s weaponry was not historically accurate.
German battle dress from WW2:
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.ipernity.com%2F108%2F35%2F68%2F3783568.9743ae9b.640.jpg&hash=3e9f46e4d805b206ff52a05917db16b473317848)
Hydra armour from The First Avenger:
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fifanboy.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F08%2Fwenredmenace.jpg&hash=270abce4788559c20919cba10f992efb63879563)
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvignette3.wikia.nocookie.net%2Fmarvelcinematicuniverse%2Fimages%2F9%2F94%2FHYDRAexo.png%2Frevision%2Flatest%3Fcb%3D20120926234540&hash=2c66355845543a9a7433d521a386a7bc6d1fdf7f)
TFA depicted them using alien tech to create new tech. Not futuristic, but based on advanced things from the past. But that wasn't a depiction of the nazis. They even had a scene where Red Skull blows off Hitler and the nazis. That's a flaw in the film and it's apart of what makes it one of the weakest of phase 1 for me. Have a very great day!
God bless you all!
Zack Snyder has released the photo he took of Gal Gadot following his decision to cast her as Wonder Woman.
(https://s25.postimg.org/535suqb7z/Gal_Snyder_Casting.jpg)
I finally got to see the film. I'll start by saying I really liked Gal Gadot in the role but that was no surprise since I already enjoyed her performance in BvS: DoJ.
I also liked Chris Pine's Steve Trevor, and I think the film did well in balancing the humor and the more serious moments, though I never really had a huge problem with the DCEU's lack of jokes in the previous films.
Ares was not the highlight of the film for me, but still okay as a villain. I was more drawn to the theme that the DCEU films have been presenting, that humanity is still worth saving despite the bad things. I agree with the Captain America and Thor comparison, and overall I think WW is an above average comic book film and I'm happy it's succcesful. The ending also made me excited for Justice League.
Wonder Woman is now the top grossing Domestic DCEU film.
(https://s25.postimg.org/vkw21bsr3/Promo_Know_her_Name.jpg)
Quote from: The Joker on Mon, 3 Jul 2017, 03:49
Wonder Woman is now the top grossing Domestic DCEU film.
Link retracted to deny clickbait trash any attention.
Oh no. You gave clicks to one of the biggest anti-DCEU rumour mongerers on the net.
Why Joker, Why? :'( ;)
Glad to see WW holding up strong.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Mon, 3 Jul 2017, 04:03
Oh no. You gave clicks to one of the biggest anti-DCEU rumour mongerers on the net.
Why Joker, Why? :'( ;)
Thanks for the heads up!
I make a little bit of an effort to ignore all the praise/gripes when it comes to most films these days, but I wasn't aware that the site in question was an Anti-DCEU site. So, outside of using a DeLorean with a flux Capacitor, which I don't have, I have removed the link.
So for anyone who didn't see the link, .... just take my word for it. ;D
QuoteGlad to see WW holding up strong.
Yup. I'm with that.
I'm glad to hear Wonder Woman is doing well at the box office. It's a good movie and it deserves its success. Pre-release forecasts were predicting it would gross something similar to Doctor Strange. Right now it's actually overperforming. And since this is the smallest budgeted DCEU film to date, the profit margin will be even bigger than that of Suicide Squad.
Frank Miller has called Wonder Woman the best superhero film since Superman: The Movie. He also talked briefly about Affleck and the Daredevil TV series.
QuoteWhat did you think of Wonder Woman? The movie, I mean.
I adored it. I honestly think it's the best superhero movie since the original Chris Reeve Superman. I thought they honestly hit out of the park.
What did you like about it?
Everything I can name. By far and away the thing I liked the most was [Gal] Gadot herself. I thought she was genuinely mythic. Beyond being spectacularly beautiful, her performance was magical. They played up the mythological aspects wonderfully. The historical stuff was spot-on. Even some of the casting choices, right down to having Captain Kirk show up as Steve Trevor — using him to underscore her eternal youth and beauty, by having him cast clearly as the fragile mortal she'd leave behind. They did so much right. It's wonderful.
Speaking of the DC movies, you got name-checked today at Hall H. Ben Affleck was asked where he was when he found out he got the role of Batman and he said he was talking to Zack Snyder, and Snyder reached down under his desk and brought out a statue version of Batman and Superman fighting in The Dark Knight Returns. He said something like, "I want to make a movie like this." Have you interacted much with Ben Affleck?
I met Ben first on the Daredevil set. We got along great there. I've seen him from time to time since, but not all that much. A real nice guy.
Speaking of Daredevil, have you watched the Daredevil Netflix series yet?
Not really, no. I haven't had a chance yet.
Hm, interesting.
Yeah, I'm looking forward to it.
http://www.vulture.com/2017/07/comics-legend-frank-miller-talks-daredevil-and-dark-knight.html
Great to hear Frank enjoyed watching Wonder Woman so much. Disheartening to read that he has yet to check out Netflix Daredevil thus far. Hopefully he'll get around to it soon enough. His fingerprints are all over it.
Digital 8/29 and Blu-ray 9/19.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOw9Iu8QsII
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 26 Jul 2017, 23:00
Frank Miller has called Wonder Woman the best superhero film since Superman: The Movie.
I know where he's coming from. It shares the same plot beats and charm of the first Reeve film. For all the fuss about this being a female directed film with a female lead actress, I actually don't think WW gets enough praise to be honest. I watched it again recently and enjoyed it a great deal. The visuals are top notch. I can tell effort was put in with the soundtrack. The action was solid. All of that stuff gets my tick of approval. But that all would mean nothing if it weren't for Gal Gadot. She made this movie what it is. Her naive goodness is what hooked me in. She's not just fun to watch - she has depth as well. Which sadly, seems to have gone out the window in other CBM's. Fun, fun, fun seems to override everything.
I actually think one of the hidden gems of this movie that isn't talked about enough is Trevor Slattery. I can't think of a movie which made a female lead and a male sidekick work as well as this one did. Typically that dynamic usually involves the male to be either a wimp or completely oblivious but the Slattery character was tough and heroic in his own right and I thought was a great character to help Diana and keep her grounded.
Congratulations to Wonder Woman on passing the $800 million mark. It's now 2017's second highest grossing film in the US and the fifth highest grossing globally. It's also the highest grossing entry in the DCEU domestically and the second highest grossing worldwide. An epic win all round.
Quote from: riddler on Fri, 11 Aug 2017, 13:21
I actually think one of the hidden gems of this movie that isn't talked about enough is Trevor Slattery.
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn1.sciencefiction.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F01%2F9161809_orig.gif&hash=4255b2c2508c9ba9016c8901fb11213a54717071)
Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun, 20 Aug 2017, 18:09
Congratulations to Wonder Woman on passing the $800 million mark. It's now 2017's second highest grossing film in the US and the fifth highest grossing globally. It's also the highest grossing entry in the DCEU domestically and the second highest grossing worldwide. An epic win all round.
(https://s25.postimg.org/blnj5jzyn/GIF_Mic_Drop.gif)
James Cameron has criticised Wonder Woman during an interview with the Guardian.
Quote from: James Cameron
"All of the self-congratulatory back-patting Hollywood's been doing over Wonder Woman has been so misguided. She's an objectified icon, and it's just male Hollywood doing the same old thing! I'm not saying I didn't like the movie but, to me, it's a step backwards. Sarah Connor was not a beauty icon. She was strong, she was troubled, she was a terrible mother, and she earned the respect of the audience through pure grit. And to me, [the benefit of characters like Sarah] is so obvious. I mean, half the audience is female!"
Source: https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/aug/24/james-cameron-well-never-be-able-to-reproduce-the-shock-of-terminator-2
Patty Jenkins released this response on Twitter:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DICzihOXcAAwEWs.jpg)
Source: https://twitter.com/PattyJenks/status/900917648015405062
I think Cameron's comparison with Sarah Conner and WW is terribly misguided. The gist I'm getting from what he's saying is strong female characters should be built like men. Which I don't agree. Sex appeal doesn't cheapen a character, and it can definitely be argued that male characters can be objectified too.
I admire James Cameron's past work, but I disagree with his comments here. He's basically propping up one his own characters with this jealous statement. Cameron is basically saying you can't be beautiful and still be a strong woman. Which is nonsense. The first amendment is a two way thing. Cameron can share his opinion, and Patti is also allowed to respond. Some people want one sided conversations and hence they react with fury when the other side speaks up.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 26 Aug 2017, 03:10
I admire James Cameron's past work, but I disagree with his comments here. He's basically propping up one his own characters with this jealous statement.
It's certainly a bit bizarre for him to say that, although I'm not quite sure why would he be jealous about WW's success. Besides, he's has been guilty of objectifying women in the past. Remember Jamie Lee Curtis's striptease in True Lies? ;)
Off-topic: looking back at what Jenkins wrote about Cameron appraising her film Monster, I feel uncomfortable that both of them are describing Aileen Wuornos as a "strong" character, in a positive sense. As tragic and devastating Wuornos's life was, I find it unsettling that people are empowering her despite the fact she was a serial killer.
Sounds like James Cameron being James Cameron. Jenkins' response was far more dignified.
All in all, I think the great thing about this movie was that it translated the character's values, tropes, and ideas circa the Golden Age comics into a modern film, despite tweaked origin.
The complaining about objectification would really have to go all the way back to William Moulton Marston and H.G. Peter. There's always been a sex appeal about her.
Quote from: The Joker on Sat, 26 Aug 2017, 15:21
All in all, I think the great thing about this movie was that it translated the character's values, tropes, and ideas circa the Golden Age comics into a modern film, despite tweaked origin.
Aside from her appearances in Justice League stories, I know very little about the Wonder Woman comics. How close is the movie to the source material? Obviously a few things will have been changed, but overall would you say it was a faithful translation?
Yeah, I would say the film is a great amalgamation of the Golden Age Wonder Woman, the Post-Crisis Wonder Woman, with the New52 origin "revelation" thrown in as well. I really can't vouch for any Silver Age/Bronze Age influences, cause honestly, there isn't much there to grasp onto anyways (pure zaniness,Karate Kid Diana & ever changing creative teams), but as far as the eras where the Wonder Woman actually had direction, the film compliments them.
I would like to think if William Marston was alive today, he would be as happy with the movie as Jerry and Joe were with Richard Donner's Superman The Movie.
How does Steve Trevor returning (allegedly) in the sequel tally with the comics? I remember in the TV show they had Lyle Waggoner playing both Steve and Steve Jr. Is this accurate to the source material? And if so, do you think Pine will be playing his own descendent or merely reprising his role as the original Steve via flashbacks?
Steve Trevor returning from the dead tallies up with the comics very well to be perfectly honest with you. If I am remembering correctly, he was shot and put into a coma right before the Diana Prince/Karate Kid/Beatrix Kiddo run, revived soon after, only to be killed a few issues later. Aphrodite brings him back to the living a few or so years later, but Steve's once again killed off due to a cult wanting to use him as a conduit to power some being or another. Then there's the alternate reality (I don't remember which Earth he belonged to) Steve Trevor that Wondy meets and falls in love with all over again. Kinda like how the Barry Allen Flash hooked up with a Iris West from the future following Pre-Crisis Earth-1's Iris getting killed by the Reverse-Flash. Because, comics. The alternate reality Steve is the Steve Wonder Woman gets married to right before Crisis on Infinite Earths, while the Earth-Two Wonder Woman & Steve are allowed to live on forever in Mount Olympus.
Post-Crisis Steve was just aged up and then married off to Etta Candy.
New52 Steve was essentially the ex-boyfriend.
& Rebirth Steve is back as Wonder Woman's love interest again. These Steve's never had to deal with coming back from the dead like the Pre-Crisis Steve did.
So, yeah. There's alot of ways to go about it. The Waggoner Steve Trevor Jr. deal was just a way to get him to return for the show due to the time jump from Seasons 1 and 2, and I guess the best possible route for 1970's audiences since saying Season 1 was on Earth-Two and Seasons 2+3 are on Earth-One probably would have been just too much back then.
Either Steve can come back as a illusion, in order to manipulate Wonder Woman, or he could very well come back for real due to perhaps a Old God surviving the Ares attacks (like Aphrodite), or via the powers of a villain like Circe. Since she's been shown to be able to bring back the dead as well. Actually, she's been shown to be able to do a whole hell of alot. Definitely a villain that's worth exploring in a future DCEU Wonder Woman movie.
It sounds like they've got a lot of options to choose from when it comes to bringing Steve back. I wonder which they'll go for.
I'm more familiar with Circe from her guest shots on Justice League Unlimited than her appearances in the comics. But based on what little I know about her, I should think she'd make for quite a compelling movie villain.
So we all know that Batman v Superman and Suicide squad released directors cuts months later which seemed to be a significant improvement over the theatrical release. The wonder woman DVD/blu ray is only advertising one deleted scene. This is a good sign IMO, it seems WB/DC finally had a better grasp about which scenes to put in their movie BEFORE post-production this time. Hopefully they continue following the successful blueprint of Wonder Woman, it seemed despite the false rumours, the production was far more seamless than its predecessors.
I don't buy that smooth productions equal better films. Batman89 had Nicholson walking up the cathedral steps asking the filmmakers what they were doing. And they had to respond with "we're not sure". And from there, one of the best Batman sequences of all time was born.
Finally saw this. I have two words.
f***ing
Epic.
Quote from: Catwoman on Tue, 12 Sep 2017, 10:09
Finally saw this. I have two words.
f***ing
Epic.
I thought so as well. I thought one of the best parts was her sidekick Steve Trevor. I can't ever think of a male sidekick to a super heroine being as strong of a character as in Wonder Woman. Normally the male sidekick is physically a wuss under that dynamic but this guy is a gutsy fighter and kudos for him for not being closed minded and recognize and respect Diana for what she is without being chauvinism was the norm.
Uh his name is Steve Trevor. lol. Do you keep misnaming him on purpose or...?
And yes I agree. A strong, brave woman as the main character with a strong, brave man at her side shouldn't seem like a fresh concept, but it does. One of my favorite parts is when they're side by side in the street, her with her lasso and him with his rifle, as they liberate the village. So badass. I also loved his scene of sacrifice. Reading his face in that scene, he didn't have to say a damn word. You could tell every thought going through his head in that moment, the doubt, the fear, and his final peace with what he's doing. I know that's what they were going for but it takes great acting to pull it off so well. I'd never seen Chris in anything else but I loved him in this.
Gal's own acting was so wonder-ful (pun 100% intended). I already loved her Diana from the little bit she was in BvS but we're at a whole new level of adoration now, y'all. The way she blended Diana's cute naivete (example: her first reaction to ice cream lol) with being a freaking badass was perfect. That's the kind of character that if I had a daughter, or even if I had a son, I would want them to latch onto. Gentle, kind, always curious, but a warrior when needed. Maybe my favorite part in the whole movie is when she experiences snow for the first time in the village. Here she has kicked all kinds of major ass to save these people, and now a simple snowfall makes her eyes light up. That's the kind of woman I'd like to be. I know she seems almost as world weary as Bruce in BvS but I hope she finds a little of that innocence in her the same way he found a light still within him. Might be a lot tougher for her, though.
Speaking of the village and her loss of innocence, the pain of the scene when she finds it gassed and everyone dead hit me very hard. I had an uneasy feeling as the characters were celebrating the night before but it was about Steve and the others in the group (who I quickly came to adore, I'm glad they survived). I thought the village had been saved. So that was a painful moment. Made me hate Ludendorff (may have spelled that wrong) even more and I cheered with glee when Diana slew him.
But I knew he wasn't Ares.
Somehow I just latched onto the Sir Patrick character as being, um, off even though I felt totally crazy for doing it. So the big reveal was both cool in a "Ha I knew it!" kind of way and sort of terrifying at the same time lol. It was creepy that the god of war had masqueraded so well as this gentle person but really fitting as well. That was yet another scene/concept done perfectly.
Back to Diana in the village after the mustard gas attack, did that remind anyone else of Clark in the flames of the capitol after Luthor blows it up in BvS? The hero, invincible in an otherwise deadly setting, instead consumed by grief? I doubt that was intentional, but it was interesting. Diana's of course hit much harder since it was longer and we thought they were safe after the heroes' work the day before but Clark's pain in that scene was one of BvS's hardest moments. I liked it (in terms of film making, as a viewer of course I was very upset) but I do hope that won't be a theme. If Arthur winds up weeping among the drowned in a flood in Aquaman I will be a little annoyed lol. Find other ways to tear our hearts out.
Quote from: Catwoman on Wed, 13 Sep 2017, 10:44
Back to Diana in the village after the mustard gas attack, did that remind anyone else of Clark in the flames of the capitol after Luthor blows it up in BvS? The hero, invincible in an otherwise deadly setting, instead consumed by grief? I doubt that was intentional, but it was interesting.
Maybe. But the one scene that reminded me of a callback to a previous DCEU film was Diana talking to Ares in some sort of dreamlike, hallucinatory sequence similar to Clark speaking to Zod in that nightmare in MOS.
As a matter of fact, the action and special effects of Wonder Woman does have striking resemblances to the Doomsday fight in BvS.
Well, the Wonder Woman movie was released today on DVD/Blu Ray and there was no way I was not going to pick up the Target digibook version.
(https://s25.postimg.org/hxcl24yj3/52615159_Alt01.jpg)
Considering how I've collected the digibook versions of Man of Steel, Batman v Superman, and Suicide Squad, I had to keep the theme going.
Looks cool on a shelf anyways.
Quote from: The Joker on Wed, 20 Sep 2017, 04:15
Well, the Wonder Woman movie was released today on DVD/Blu Ray and there was no way I was not going to pick up the Target digibook version.
(https://s25.postimg.org/hxcl24yj3/52615159_Alt01.jpg)
Considering how I've collected the digibook versions of Man of Steel, Batman v Superman, and Suicide Squad, I had to keep the theme going.
Looks cool on a shelf anyways.
I hope you enjoy it, be sure to let us know your thoughts on the deleted scene. I don't own any of the movies in the DCEU set, with marvel I got the two MCU box sets they sold but I'm not sure if DC will end up doing the same since they aren't releasing their universe in phases. Maybe after the JLA if they release a box set I will look for it.
Quote from: The Joker on Sat, 26 Aug 2017, 15:21
Sounds like James Cameron being James Cameron. Jenkins' response was far more dignified.
I heard that Cameron has doubled down on his opinion that Diana in WW was a sex object. I don't get him. Now that I think about it, out of all the characters in WW, the only one who was objectified was Steve Trevor. Doesn't anybody else remember that awkward nude bath scene?
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 1 Sep 2017, 01:50
I don't buy that smooth productions equal better films. Batman89 had Nicholson walking up the cathedral steps asking the filmmakers what they were doing. And they had to respond with "we're not sure". And from there, one of the best Batman sequences of all time was born.
Another recent example is Rogue One. That was reported to have lots of reshoots and massive changes, and it turned out, in my opinion, to be one of the best Star Wars films.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sun, 1 Oct 2017, 02:56
I heard that Cameron has doubled down on his opinion that Diana in WW was a sex object. I don't get him. Now that I think about it, out of all the characters in WW, the only one who was objectified was Steve Trevor. Doesn't anybody else remember that awkward nude bath scene?
I'll be fair and say I appreciate Cameron's past films and I still enjoy them to this day. However I'm not a fan of Avatar at all, and I don't know why he's devoting the rest of his career to that universe. But anyway, that's his choice. I don't like Cameron's views though. Let's just say we wouldn't get along that well.
Quote from: riddler on Wed, 20 Sep 2017, 14:55
I hope you enjoy it, be sure to let us know your thoughts on the deleted scene.
The deleted scene with Etta Candy was alright. It's one of those things that, nowadays, feels like a very MCU thing to do when it comes to 'shared universes'. Personally, I'm kinda glad it was left out for those reasons, and just simply letting this film stand and breathe on it's own. The scene was neat, but at the same time, not really necessary either.
This girl appears to be about as close as you can get to Gal. Especially in cosplay. I mean, damn!
(https://s25.postimg.org/77m4z357z/Cosplayer_Identical.jpg)
DAMN! That's freaky. And hot as hell too lol.
She's not wearing anything in the right image. I hand painted the Wonder Woman outfit onto her skin.
I was standing in a crop - she appeared behind me and then took off her robe. To which I said "I take that as a yes".
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gifbin.com%2Fbin%2F062014%2F1403803311_kid_dances_for_the_jumbotron.gif&hash=01c1f9e11c8f8c0fb571be45cd4ef1a8ca2562d7)
Quote from: The Joker on Mon, 9 Oct 2017, 20:29
This girl appears to be about as close as you can get to Gal. Especially in cosplay. I mean, damn!
(https://s25.postimg.org/77m4z357z/Cosplayer_Identical.jpg)
Alyson Tabbitha. I'll remember that name. ;)
Now would be the good time to ask what's everybody's favourite scene in WW? The most popular answer might be the No Man's Land scene. But for me, it's when Diana is speaking in different languages to Sameer at the bar, and disarming that goon before throwing him across the room. Very ladylike.
Mine is where Diana and Steve dance and her wonder (pun intended) at the snow, right after she just finished kicking all kinds of ass. She goes from total badass to childlike innocence. Honorable mention: Etta trying to help her dress shop. Honorable mention two: the rest of the whole damn movie cause picking those was nearly impossible.
Oh, fav scene without Diana is Samir driving Steve and their ruse. I know, I know, it was a stereotypical charicature and all that but it was freaking hilarious too. Samir was my favorite of Steve's recruits (loved all 3 though).
By the way, speaking of hilarious, it's that time:
BLOOPERS!!!
https://youtu.be/1ZiT9vAYG4E
She is so freaking adorable. Chris Pine nicknamed her "Giggles Gadot" and it's perfect.
Quote from: Catwoman on Sun, 15 Oct 2017, 11:47
She is so freaking adorable.
She is that. And then some!
(https://s25.postimg.org/9gafaeowf/GIF_WW_Gal_Jig_Dance_BTS.gif)
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.myconfinedspace.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F07%2FGal-Gadot-sticking-out-her-tongue.jpg&hash=467d1b21629730aa55e3b74bf3c6d9a98cbc79b0)
Quote from: Catwoman on Mon, 16 Oct 2017, 05:27
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.myconfinedspace.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F07%2FGal-Gadot-sticking-out-her-tongue.jpg&hash=467d1b21629730aa55e3b74bf3c6d9a98cbc79b0)
Not sure where in the world this is but I do know I wanna go!
The best scene IMO is when Diana walks through the end of war celebrations and finds Steve's photo.
Honorable mentions:
Diana and Steve dancing at night. Something about this felt like an old school war film. Really loved that vibe.
Diana trying on the outfits. This was breezy fun.
Young Diana's origins. They sold the idea fighting was always in her blood.
And anything that highlights Diana's naivety and heart of gold. Her reaction to the baby, for example.
As you can see, none of my top scenes involve any action. This is a film of charm and poignancy.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 19 Oct 2017, 03:00
The best scene IMO is when Diana walks through the end of war celebrations and finds Steve's photo.
Honorable mentions:
Diana and Steve dancing at night. Something about this felt like an old school war film. Really loved that vibe.
Diana trying on the outfits. This was breezy fun.
Young Diana's origins. They sold the idea fighting was always in her blood.
And anything that highlights Diana's naivety and heart of gold. Her reaction to the baby, for example.
As you can see, none of my top scenes involve any action. This is a film of charm and poignancy.
All of these were great.
There's alot of scenes that are memorable and stick with you. It's amazing that the film found just the right balance of displaying how Diana's heart is in the right place, but has a worldview that can be considered too simplistic, without going
too far with that aspect and making her come across as a simpleton for humor sakes. That was a major concern going in, and I was relieved walking out feeling that indeed walked that tightrope just fine. Patty, Gal, and the rest of the crew should be commended for that. As it would have been easy and lazy to just go for cheap laughs. Disaster avoided!
P.S. I finally saw the
Professor Marston film today and found it enjoyable. For some reason I keep comparing it to 2006's Hollywoodland detailing the mystery surrounding George Reeves death, even though they are two very different films. I guess you can say, if anything, the pacing it similar. I've been familiar with Marston's unconventional private life spilling into his writing of Wonder Woman for quite awhile now, but for 99.9% of the people who have no clue, i'm sure it can be eye opening. I think the film did a very adequate job in detailing the emotional bond, and societal anxiety with such a arrangement. Personally, I would have preferred more time devoted to Marston's working relationship with National Comics, and all it's give and take, but at the same time I understand there's only so much running time that can be given to that sort of stuff when it's not the primary focus.
She is so adorable it hurts. Some proof:
https://youtu.be/57gJYE_is8Q
Extended part of the Gal/Amy clip. Amy's reaction is priceless but so are Holly and Jesse's and Laurence is like "Yeah these muthaf***as are crazy."
https://youtu.be/RPrgBSY66WI
I LOVE these two together
https://youtu.be/2j-tHtIjU_w
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Thu, 1 Jun 2017, 13:52
Cool beans. How do you rate out of all the DCEU films to date?
A bit late to reply, but I don't rate them, they are all good to me.
Last month, it was announced Kristen Wiig will play Cheetah in the sequel.
Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/comic-riffs/wp/2018/03/09/kristen-wiig-will-star-in-wonder-woman-sequel-as-the-cheetah-patty-jenkins-confirms
While on the subject of Wonder Woman, I found this great tweet that somebody point out about the double standards between Zod's death and Luddendorf's death.
Quote
One of these pissed off a lot of people, the other one didn't. Why? #Superman #WonderWoman
(https://i.imgur.com/PRiYeen.jpg)
https://twitter.com/WayTooWitty/status/981937426292727809
Blatant double standards. Girl power glosses over everything.
Stabbing someone with a sword is undeniably more painful and graphic.
Snapping a neck in one clean motion is instant and efficient.
Superman was the in act of saving innocent people in the direct firing line. He had seconds to act.
Wonder Woman had her reasons, but it was fuelled a lot by revenge and a predisposed crusade.
Wonder Woman gets a free pass as well because she has the warrior princess reputation. Superman has a set of expectations placed on him that he's apparently not meant to cross. Sorry, I don't accept that. Earth's number one protector decides what level of appropriate force is required in whatever situation he finds himself in. And who's going to tell him otherwise?
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 14 Apr 2018, 11:22
Blatant double standards. Girl power glosses over everything.
Stabbing someone with a sword is undeniably more painful and graphic.
Snapping a neck in one clean motion is instant and efficient.
Superman was the in act of saving innocent people in the direct firing line. He had seconds to act.
Wonder Woman had her reasons, but it was fuelled a lot by revenge and a predisposed crusade.
The fact she killed Luddendorf because she had mistakenly believed he was Ares in disguise means she killed somebody in cold blood. But somehow, people think Superman killing a genocidal maniac who refused to surrender was an act of murder. While rallying against Superman and Batman for their lethal ways, the naysayers praise Wonder Woman as the "only good" DC film, even though Diana doesn't share the supposed ideals these hypocrites strive for.
Mind you, I don't care that Diana kills. I'm not the one making the moral outrage over this, I'm just flustered by the constant idiocy and hypocrisy of people on the subject of DC Comics in live action. It never ends.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 14 Apr 2018, 04:49While on the subject of Wonder Woman, I found this great tweet that somebody point out about the double standards between Zod's death and Luddendorf's death.
Quote
One of these pissed off a lot of people, the other one didn't. Why? #Superman #WonderWoman
(https://i.imgur.com/PRiYeen.jpg)
https://twitter.com/WayTooWitty/status/981937426292727809
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sat, 14 Apr 2018, 11:22Blatant double standards. Girl power glosses over everything.
Stabbing someone with a sword is undeniably more painful and graphic.
Snapping a neck in one clean motion is instant and efficient.
Superman was the in act of saving innocent people in the direct firing line. He had seconds to act.
Wonder Woman had her reasons, but it was fuelled a lot by revenge and a predisposed crusade.
Wonder Woman gets a free pass as well because she has the warrior princess reputation. Superman has a set of expectations placed on him that he's apparently not meant to cross. Sorry, I don't accept that. Earth's number one protector decides what level of appropriate force is required in whatever situation he finds himself in. And who's going to tell him otherwise?
WW cares about character and emotion and consistency. That's the difference. WW is established to be someone willing to kill. Superman has no establishing character emotions beyond generalization. Him killing means nothing to the movie or Clark or the scene and is contradicted in the next scene. WW is built up in the movie in this capacity. SM isn't, not just in expectations from previous incarnations, but in this one. One movie is well written, the other isn't.
In truth Superman has no more rights than every other normal person. Because that's all he is. He can die. He has faults. He's not special. He's only human.
Quote from: Dagenspear on Wed, 18 Apr 2018, 07:56
WW is established to be someone willing to kill. Superman has no establishing character emotions beyond generalization.
Zod clearly defined the terms of their battle with his "either you die or I do" statement. That's on him, not Cavillman. Did he want to snap a fellow Kryptonian's neck? No. Cavillman was put into a situation that required lethal force. Your whole argument that Cavillman wasn't established as being someone willing to kill is meaningless. A situation dictates our response. If I'm on the bus and some crazed knife wielder says "either you die or I do"...it's gonna be him on the floor, not me.
Quote from: Dagenspear on Wed, 18 Apr 2018, 07:56
Him killing means nothing to the movie or Clark or the scene and is contradicted in the next scene.
(https://78.media.tumblr.com/32538fbb44221bfe44f972a9e96ee764/tumblr_ostij6iq4f1v1z098o1_500.gif)
Quote from: Dagenspear on Wed, 18 Apr 2018, 07:56In truth Superman has no more rights than every other normal person. Because that's all he is. He can die. He has faults. He's not special. He's only human.
C'mon. You're the semantics king and you're saying Superman is human?
(https://media.giphy.com/media/Mfwl0GQ1QvZIY/giphy.gif)
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 19 Apr 2018, 06:04Zod clearly defined the terms of their battle with his "either you die or I do" statement. That's on him, not Cavillman. Did he want to snap a fellow Kryptonian's neck? No. Cavillman was put into a situation that required lethal force. Your whole argument that Cavillman wasn't established as being someone willing to kill is meaningless. A situation dictates our response. If I'm on the bus and some crazed knife wielder says "either you die or I do"...it's gonna be him on the floor, not me.
That doesn't define Clark's character. We have no strong understanding of his personality to grasp whether or not the fight matters. I'm not arguing whether he was right in killing Zod or not. I'm arguing that it meant nothing to his character. There's no measure for his character in that fight. About whether he was unwilling or willing to kill. Connect that to the fact there's no struggle or conflict in the fight until we get to the scene where Zod decides to suddenly make good on his threat. Then we get an idea, but only after and then we go to the next scene and that conflict didn't matter.
Quote(https://78.media.tumblr.com/32538fbb44221bfe44f972a9e96ee764/tumblr_ostij6iq4f1v1z098o1_500.gif)
It doesn't.
QuoteC'mon. You're the semantics king and you're saying Superman is human?
You know what I mean, I'm sure. He's flawed, he sins, he's not different from us. His powers and alien-ness don't make him special in that sense. He doesn't have a right to state on his own terms, morality.
Happy Birthday to Gal Gadot, who is 33 today! :)
(https://s25.postimg.cc/f4mp7ah9b/FB_IMG_1509686024014.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DcH_KHCVQAAKvaq.jpg:large)
The sequel is called Wonder Woman 1984, and the plot will be set in that year.
This is the teaser logo:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/30/Wonder_Woman_1984_logo.jpg)
Chris Pine returns in this new set photo, as released on Patty Jenkins's Twitter page:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DfkY__7W0AEoTo3.jpg:large)
Keep in mind, I don't think this is Steve Trevor. I think this is supposed to be another relative of his who strongly resembles him.
I know it might sound too premature to judge, but I'm not impressed. But then again, I'm not too enthusiastic about any comic movies right now.
I love the idea of a mid '80s setting. One of my favorite eras of the past. Totally dressing the part when I go see it.
(https://s25.postimg.cc/jj7q10qen/Poster_Teaser_Image_Jun_2018.jpg)
I'm interested. Of course. The above image alludes to the sequel addressing pop culture of the early-mid 80's era, which is easy, but I think that Patty, Gal, and crew also addressing real life events, in a non-goofball way, from that specific time period, would result in a movie with a little more substance to it. I think the cold war is going to be a back drop, so go all out with the historical points. Address the 1984 Los Angeles Olympics, the country embracing conservatism with Ronald Regan's 49 State landslide reelection, the space shuttle's Challenger & Explorer, the 1st first embryo transfer resulting in birth, AIDS in the 80's, the 1st female doing a space walk, or even a reference to Michael Jackson's hair catching on fire.
Perhaps all of these historical points would be considered too heavy handed for a mere superhero flick in a time where they are overwhelmingly transformed into light hearted action comedies, but I think if you're going to make a point in setting the movie in the year of 1984, the real life events of that particular year should be addressed in some fashion, and not simply ignored or grossly glossed over. You know, something more than just a catchy 80's retro soundtrack. Personally, I would be fascinated at the psychology and perspective of a empathetic immortal amazonian princess demigod, who has lived thru and possibly witnessed historical events from 1918 to 1984. Let alone dealing with hardships of friends inevitably growing older and eventually passing away (thinking of Etta Candy and the ragtag band of soldiers Wonder Woman fought with along with Steve Trevor during WW1). Considering how Zack Snyder addressed how the world and military would react to a superpowered being in a real world setting (even going into politically with BvS), I'm sure Snyder himself would agree.
Course it doesn't have to be all gloom, and it honestly shouldn't be, but '84 has significance in history and I would like to see that historical content bleed into the film to atleast some extent. Also, I think Patty Jenkins 1st Wonder Woman film did a good job in feeling more in line with what Zack Snyder's original DCEU vision, than Suicide Squad or Justice League did, and I, being selfish, would like for atleast some of that vision to continue on, if even in a more diluted sense, with Jenkins continuing on in the director's chair.
Please, just anything other than yet another typical Marvel popcorn fare action comedy coming off the assembly line. I want some meat rather than potatoes all the time.
Agree with everything you said, Joker.
I'm in the superhero burnout phase - but I did enjoy the first Wonder Woman film, and of course I love Gal. So the goodwill is there, and I think a sequel is justified. By all accounts, Jenkins was able to present her vision without studio interference, and hopefully that's also going to be true here.
The 80s setting is smart, because significant time has passed since World War One to see changes in her personality, but it's still a good 35 years ago from present day 2019.
Having some reference to Orwell's 1984 would be a good, logical move. Especially considering a lot of what the book spoke about has already come true. But at the same time, 1984 era Diana could rebel against that mindset. That the future doesn't have to be bleak, and we don't have to accept this way of life. 1984 can be what we want it to be, not what we think it's going to be. That kind of thing.
Basically, the DCEU's only hope right now is Gal. Affleck may be leaving, if reports are to be believed, and MoS2 looks to be way off. That can't help but dampen enthusiasm for the cinematic universe as a whole. But then again, these WW films will be able to be viewed as a separate trilogy, largely disconnected from the overarching DCEU.
Perfectly stated, TDK.
And I agree wholeheartedly with your astute observation of Orwell's 1984. It definitely would fit into a narrative, and possibly Diana's fears of mankind accepting such a future.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sun, 11 Jun 2017, 03:19
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sun, 4 Jun 2017, 07:35
While I enjoyed Diana's journey into WWI, I couldn't help but feel the conclusion doesn't gel too well with her participation in BvS.
Nothing in WW contradicts BvS.
The film opened in the present day, and while I'm paraphrasing, she says all men not being good is a lesson she learned the hard way. The final scene of WonderGal jumping into action in full costume also takes place in the present day - after the events of BvS which reinvigorated her sense of heroism. In the WW1 sequences she says "fighting for mankind is less important than being a force for love", which leads me to believe she simply remained in the background right up until she fought Doomsday. If I were WB, I'd set the sequel in modern times as well.
I'm revisiting this again. I'm not convinced by this answer, because it turns out Gal Gadot came out during a press junket for Justice League last year confirming there was a retcon between BvS and WW.
Video link: https://twitter.com/RefaelDlachmish/status/923525128788553728
Just in case that video expires, here's a transcript of what she said:
Quote from: Gal Gadot
None of us knew exactly, exactly, what's the backstory of Wonder Woman. And once they decided to shoot the solo movie, [the] Wonder Woman movie, and we started to dig in and understand the core of the character, we realized that actually there is no way that Wonder Woman will EVER give up on mankind. The reason why she left the island was because she wanted to make their life better and safer. They are her colleagues, so I'm giving you a very honest answer, that it was sometimes, you know, creative processes establish something that is not necessarily the right decision. But then you can always correct it and change it. So Wonder Woman will always be there as far as she [has] concerns for mankind.
Yea I went into Wonder Woman thinking "Well this is not going to end well for anybody" because of her attitude in BvS. I was pleasantly surprised (poor Steve, though) but at the same time I was like "Well what in the world happened after that to make her like that later?"
That's the problem with establishing a "here and now" that is a bit unpleasant and then trying to go back and show how the here and now came to be. With someone like Batman, it's easy. Diana, like Supes, is one of those "beacons of hope" characters, ya know? I mean it works ok in BvS to have her be the way she is, but does anyone really want to see a movie of how Wonder Woman ends up how she's portrayed there? I know I don't, I'm depressed enough as it is thank you very much. I'm glad they decided to abandon that.
The more I think about it, Zack Snyder not was the right guy to set the whole tone with BvS and Man of Steel before that. They're good movies, don't get me wrong, but it's not the direction they should have gone in my opinion. Now a solo Batman movie done by Snyder? Hell yes, sign me up. But someone else should have handled Superman, the same way Patty Jenkins did with Wonder Woman, and he wasn't the right person to bring all three together, either. Don't get me started on David Ayer with Suicide Squad. I hate to say it because I've liked a lot of what we've seen and I love the cast of all the movies, they got those perfect, but it feels like they need to start over again. What would be nice is if they could kind of retcon it all but keep Ben, Henry, and so on in the roles.
Quote from: The Joker on Sun, 17 Jun 2018, 17:57
Perfectly stated, TDK.
And I agree wholeheartedly with your astute observation of Orwell's 1984. It definitely would fit into a narrative, and possibly Diana's fears of mankind accepting such a future.
Why, thank you Joker.
On the topic of retcons, let's see what official canon says.
Bruce to Diana: "You shut yourself down for a century, so let's not talk about me moving on."
Hmmm.
Quote from: Catwoman on Thu, 12 Jul 2018, 19:16
The more I think about it, Zack Snyder not was the right guy to set the whole tone with BvS and Man of Steel before that. They're good movies, don't get me wrong, but it's not the direction they should have gone in my opinion. Now a solo Batman movie done by Snyder? Hell yes, sign me up. But someone else should have handled Superman, the same way Patty Jenkins did with Wonder Woman, and he wasn't the right person to bring all three together, either.
Sorry, but I don't understand what you mean. If you liked what you saw despite some quibbles here and there, why do you feel they need to start all over again? Never mind the fact that it doesn't recognise Superman's sacrifices and actions to persist in saving the planet in spite of doubt and hostility. In my opinion, rewriting Diana's role in the present day doesn't change the fact that Wonder Woman is a pretty dark film. Even the character herself is pretty bloodthirsty in her intentions to end the war.
Don't take this the wrong way, I'm just curious, that's all.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 13 Jul 2018, 01:48
On the topic of retcons, let's see what official canon says.
Bruce to Diana: "You shut yourself down for a century, so let's not talk about me moving on."
Hmmm.
It still doesn't change that they intended to retcon Wonder Woman, unfortunately. And let's face it, continuity in the DCEU gets further diminished when JL had changed the extent of Victor Stone's bodily disfigurement before he became Cyborg.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Fri, 13 Jul 2018, 09:48
Quote from: Catwoman on Thu, 12 Jul 2018, 19:16
The more I think about it, Zack Snyder not was the right guy to set the whole tone with BvS and Man of Steel before that. They're good movies, don't get me wrong, but it's not the direction they should have gone in my opinion. Now a solo Batman movie done by Snyder? Hell yes, sign me up. But someone else should have handled Superman, the same way Patty Jenkins did with Wonder Woman, and he wasn't the right person to bring all three together, either.
Sorry, but I don't understand what you mean. If you liked what you saw despite some quibbles here and there, why do you feel they need to start all over again? Never mind the fact that it doesn't recognise Superman's sacrifices and actions to persist in saving the planet in spite of doubt and hostility. In my opinion, rewriting Diana's role in the present day doesn't change the fact that Wonder Woman is a pretty dark film. Even the character herself is pretty bloodthirsty in her intentions to end the war.
Don't take this the wrong way, I'm just curious, that's all.
I look at what I like and then what's best in the bigger picture. If I have to separate the two, I can do that. I enjoyed the movies (talking about MoS and BvS) myself, but they don't really set the right tone for Superman or Wonder Woman. For a stand-alone direct to video type thing, sure, they're great. For DC and WB's movie franchise, it wasn't so great. I see why people didn't care for it. Justice League did correct that a bit (the second Man of Steel movie should be wonderful), so maybe I'm going overboard by suggesting they start over. But it doesn't change that I feel that it started in the wrong place for those two. Like I said, a stand alone Batman movie by Snyder? I would have been first in line (wouldn't have stayed there because I would have had to tinkle and I get hungry but still). I'm not dissing him. I just don't feel like he's the right guy for the other two even if I happened to like the movies myself.
Quote from: Catwoman on Fri, 13 Jul 2018, 18:18
I look at what I like and then what's best in the bigger picture. If I have to separate the two, I can do that. I enjoyed the movies (talking about MoS and BvS) myself, but they don't really set the right tone for Superman or Wonder Woman. For a stand-alone direct to video type thing, sure, they're great. For DC and WB's movie franchise, it wasn't so great. I see why people didn't care for it.
Frankly, those people don't deserve any regard because too many of them have double standards. There are much darker superhero films than Snyder's two DC films, and yet those were celebrated, instead of being criticised for their own bleak subtext.
Now, anybody has the right to say a movie sucks. I do that all the time after all. But complaining about the tone for a Superman movie is pretty suspect because no matter how light the Reeve films appear to be, they also have many dark moments. Krypton's destruction in S78, for example, was one of the most terrifying scenes I've ever watched growing up. The fear and dread I felt as a kid seeing every Kryptonian fall to their bottomless graves and screaming in horror as the whole planet collapses around them is something I haven't forgotten.
Putting that aside, and I hate to beat a dead horse yet again, but I can't take anybody seriously who had complained Superman "murdered" Zod in cold blood, but turn around and say Diana was a fun hero who should be an example to the rest of the DCEU, ignoring the fact she killed who knows how many soldiers and executed the wrong man, remorselessly I might add. I may like Gadot in the role and she definitely has charisma. But I'm not going to ignore her character is being held to a different standard than the others despite doing the same things they've been condemned for. If people say enjoy WW as their favourite DC movie, so be it. But I don't see how it's any less darker than MOS and BvS.
Interesting video comparing the trailers for the 2017 Wonder Woman movie with the Blu Ray release.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTcVwpLBxm0&t=59s&list=FL2E_KOhE1_wJT8fltjHkXsA&index=20
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 14 Jul 2018, 00:25Frankly, those people don't deserve any regard because too many of them have double standards. There are much darker superhero films than Snyder's two DC films, and yet those were celebrated, instead of being criticised for their own bleak subtext.
Now, anybody has the right to say a movie sucks. I do that all the time after all. But complaining about the tone for a Superman movie is pretty suspect because no matter how light the Reeve films appear to be, they also have many dark moments. Krypton's destruction in S78, for example, was one of the most terrifying scenes I've ever watched growing up. The fear and dread I felt as a kid seeing every Kryptonian fall to their bottomless graves and screaming in horror as the whole planet collapses around them is something I haven't forgotten.
Putting that aside, and I hate to beat a dead horse yet again, but I can't take anybody seriously who had complained Superman "murdered" Zod in cold blood, but turn around and say Diana was a fun hero who should be an example to the rest of the DCEU, ignoring the fact she killed who knows how many soldiers and executed the wrong man, remorselessly I might add. I may like Gadot in the role and she definitely has charisma. But I'm not going to ignore her character is being held to a different standard than the others despite doing the same things they've been condemned for. If people say enjoy WW as their favourite DC movie, so be it. But I don't see how it's any less darker than MOS and BvS.
I think you put too much emphasis on the phrase dark and not on the actual way that darkness is done.
Logan is dark. TDKT arguably is dark. But those movies are viewed as well done, not I think because they are or aren't dark. But because those people see them as well done. In the case of WW, her killing has context in the movie. Clark just does it. It's not apart of an arc, he's over it in the next scene after letting out a cry, it doesn't matter. The destruction of metropolis doesn't matter and Clark has no reaction to it. WW kills an enhanced guy because she thinks it will end the war and when that fails she has to come to grips with the idea that her perception about people is wrong, she has an emotional reaction to that and learns a lesson from it. When that village is killed it serves to build on Diana's character. She has a reaction to it. Clark doesn't. He doesn't in BvS either.
Wonder Woman 1984 Breakfast Club homage
(https://s25.postimg.cc/palgz7gvj/Breakfast_Club_WW.jpg)
(https://s25.postimg.cc/r2efu47y7/Breakfast_Club_Comparison.jpg)
The Breakfast Club poster must be one of the most parodied in film history.
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FwAxX02D.jpg&hash=418cd1dcce879af07d3d90407f78adcc40d18db8)
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/4c/71/12/4c71124ff1154db9f756f202b76b31ba.jpg)
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d6/55/97/d655971f4f8b52234b8d84697b3c6668.jpg)
Just announced by Gal Gadot via Twitter
QuoteSuper excited to announce that, thanks to the changing landscape, we are able to put Wonder Woman back to its rightful home. June 5, 2020. Be there or be square!!!
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DqIdCmRXgAA7oaq.jpg:large)
It was supposed to come out next November I think. Ugh.
Well at least now next November doesn't feel like forever away. June 2020 does. :(
Trying to cope ....
(https://images.gr-assets.com/hostedimages/1426187242ra/13985861.gif)
Quote from: The Joker on Mon, 22 Oct 2018, 23:26
Trying to cope ....
(https://images.gr-assets.com/hostedimages/1426187242ra/13985861.gif)
Right there with ya brother J.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dq1E1RpXcAEh-Ts.jpg:large)
Thanks to TLF for bringing this to my attention.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D8UWzJeWwAAjQcM?format=jpg&name=large)
The unfortunate thing about armor is that it covers the skin. As such, I prefer the other costume.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 6 Jun 2019, 11:23
The unfortunate thing about armor is that it covers the skin. As such, I prefer the other costume.
Yeah but she wore that in a few other movies. If you want to keep the moichandising machine running, the characters need a different look each time.
(https://i.postimg.cc/Wz5L2XNb/68900921-2074034226034552-4416487474340102548-n.jpg)
Looks like Gal will be in her Wonder Woman outfit for a good portion of the film (as leaked photos have indicated as well). I kinda doubt the armor will be present for much more than the final battle with Cheetah and/or Max Lord. I'm thinking akin to Batfleck in bat-armor screen time. Can't wait to see of course.
Wonder Woman '84 is pretty much the only upcoming comic book movie that I'm really looking forward to.
Quote from: Edd Grayson on Sat, 7 Sep 2019, 03:05
Wonder Woman '84 is pretty much the only upcoming comic book movie that I'm really looking forward to.
I'll be there for Wonder Woman. Joker, The Batman, No Time To Die and The Matrix 4 have my attention. Especially the latter.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Thu, 12 Jul 2018, 15:02
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sun, 11 Jun 2017, 03:19
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sun, 4 Jun 2017, 07:35
While I enjoyed Diana's journey into WWI, I couldn't help but feel the conclusion doesn't gel too well with her participation in BvS.
Nothing in WW contradicts BvS.
The film opened in the present day, and while I'm paraphrasing, she says all men not being good is a lesson she learned the hard way. The final scene of WonderGal jumping into action in full costume also takes place in the present day - after the events of BvS which reinvigorated her sense of heroism. In the WW1 sequences she says "fighting for mankind is less important than being a force for love", which leads me to believe she simply remained in the background right up until she fought Doomsday. If I were WB, I'd set the sequel in modern times as well.
I'm revisiting this again. I'm not convinced by this answer, because it turns out Gal Gadot came out during a press junket for Justice League last year confirming there was a retcon between BvS and WW.
Video link: https://twitter.com/RefaelDlachmish/status/923525128788553728
Just in case that video expires, here's a transcript of what she said:
Quote from: Gal Gadot
None of us knew exactly, exactly, what's the backstory of Wonder Woman. And once they decided to shoot the solo movie, [the] Wonder Woman movie, and we started to dig in and understand the core of the character, we realized that actually there is no way that Wonder Woman will EVER give up on mankind. The reason why she left the island was because she wanted to make their life better and safer. They are her colleagues, so I'm giving you a very honest answer, that it was sometimes, you know, creative processes establish something that is not necessarily the right decision. But then you can always correct it and change it. So Wonder Woman will always be there as far as she [has] concerns for mankind.
Looking back at this again, it turns out that WW was yet another movie that was meddled by Geoff Johns, while he was in charge of DC Films at the time.
Not only did Johns appear to have an influence in changing Diana's character arc in terms of continuity between this movie and BvS, but Ares's design and the third act was altered too. It's alleged that he wanted to remove the No Man's Land scene as well, because he thought it was "too dark". Patty Jenkins opposed - together with Zack Snyder's help apparently - and compromised the third act instead.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xnRc3z20kU
Original article: https://theculturednerd.org/2020/04/the-troublesome-history-zack-snyder-geoff-johns-and-the-fall-of-the-dceu/
This is a concept art of Ares by Peter McKinstry.
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/57711face3df287500cc2dca/1536240816150-V2R0NVE9RKCGXQAIG26F/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kCgT6DQ9HbGGyYmR8h8P_EcUqsxRUqqbr1mOJYKfIPR7LoDQ9mXPOjoJoqy81S2I8N_N4V1vUb5AoIIIbLZhVYy7Mythp_T-mtop-vrsUOmeInPi9iDjx9w8K4ZfjXt2dsAbWySr0CD-CVoFRITEUjM72w246JbRl3X4MPrQUax4m4bjm9DAHF2kOsIZRJKXnA/PM-716-full-body-turnaround--18-4-16-as.jpg?format=2500w)
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/51b3dc8ee4b051b96ceb10de/1501188758972-2FZI34XW8ZIZRJI2YIN3/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kFCoEfXal7l6C8OLmE_umzB7gQa3H78H3Y0txjaiv_0fDoOvxcdMmMKkDsyUqMSsMWxHk725yiiHCCLfrh8O1z5QHyNOqBUUEtDDsRWrJLTmc_JU2mEKQhNb0sUb-LsihP0aONar-IC-mlNTPYnCQmyllH81ZqGEyroHIParRB4p/wonder-woman-concept-art-reveals-reveals-a-new-menacing-design-for-ares11?format=2500w)
Source: https://petermckinstry.net/wonder-woman-1
And this is what we got in the final product.
(https://i1.wp.com/caps.pictures/201/7-wonderwoman/full/womderwoman-movie-screencaps.com-14052.jpg?strip=all)
Yeah, the concept art design is better. Much more intimidating, and it resembles closely to Nick McKinless's Ares in JL's History Lesson scene.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D3_HEsGWAAABOXm.jpg:large)
To think that Geoff Johns, the same prick who wrote Flashpoint and Batman: Earth One, would complain about darkness in a comic book adaptation is pretty f***ing rich. The thought of the NML scene ever being at risk of not making the final cut is mind-boggling. But it's quite typical of the terrible BTS decisions surrounding these movies, especially JL.
As if I need to remind anyone for the umpteenth time, remember this: Johns may not be running DC on film anymore, but he still co-wrote WW84 together with Jenkins. Apparently, the sequel will be the last film on his contract with Warner Butchers before going on his merry way and focus on those awful CW shows. But judging by Gal Gadot's recent comments about why Diana doesn't carry certain weapons in the sequel, it appears his influence is still felt:
Quote
"Wonder Woman does not carry a weapon. We had an intention to let go of the sword because there's something very aggressive with the sword," she said in footage of the event captured by CinePop. "If you have a sword you need to use it, so we wanted to give that up and we didn't feel that the shield was necessary either. She's a goddess, she can fight, she's super strong, and she has the skills and the lasso."
Source: https://www.screengeek.net/2019/12/13/wonder-woman-1984-sword-aggressive/
So I guess the first film is "too aggressive" now? ::) I'd understand if the idea was Diana wouldn't dare use a sword against mere mortals, but that doesn't mean she shouldn't upgrade when she encounters the likes of Doomsday, Ares, Steppenwolf and Darkseid.
If I still gave a sh*t about anything Warner Butchers does on film, whether it's DC or otherwise, I'd be very nervous about the sequel. But since they like to drag their creators through the mud and insult their core fanbase, I couldn't care any less about WW84 or any of their upcoming movies.
^By the way, if anybody out there doubts the veracity of that article, Snyder himself liked it on Vero. This screenshot below was already shared on the "David Ayer on deleted scenes" thread in the Suicide Squad sub-forum.
(https://i.imgur.com/Q7ZkSMj.jpg)
And to think Snyder is one of several producers of WW84 that approves an article listing the misdeeds of one of the film's writers. What a farcical state of affairs.
Off-topic: I'm curious why that article didn't mention the strong possibility that Johns leaked the original plot of BvS with Metallo as the villain. The Wallace Keefe character, who Scoot McNairy ended up playing, had a striking resemblance to the Metallo concept art.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sun, 26 Apr 2020, 06:45
^By the way, if anybody out there doubts the veracity of that article, Snyder himself liked it on Vero. This screenshot below was already shared on the "David Ayer on deleted scenes" thread in the Suicide Squad sub-forum.
(https://i.imgur.com/Q7ZkSMj.jpg)
And to think Snyder is one of several producers of WW84 that approves an article listing the misdeeds of one of the film's writers. What a farcical state of affairs.
Off-topic: I'm curious why that article didn't mention the strong possibility that Johns leaked the original plot of BvS with Metallo as the villain. The Wallace Keefe character, who Scoot McNairy ended up playing, had a striking resemblance to the Metallo concept art.
The BVS thing was conspicuously absent, it's true.
An acquaintance of mine contributes occasional pieces like this for a few different sites. He says that if your topic is the DCEU, it's usually best to not mention the MCU too much. Because inevitably, the comments (if they're open) will devolve into a DCEU vs. MCU pissing contest. For an article that's about airing some of the dirty laundry with the DCEU, I can see where it might make more sense to sidestep that sort of thing.
And understand, a lot of sites like that one are playing with fire a little bit by posting articles like that. Several of them depend upon some level of access to DC Comics, DCE, WB, etc. It's all part of the dog and pony show. And it's risky to publish articles that vilify prominent DC personnel (i.e., Geoff Johns) when he's still a high muckety-muck in the ruins of DC Comics. Because sites that do that could find themselves getting cut off from juicy stuff in the future.
Sometimes in life, the most you can hope for is a compromise.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 26 Apr 2020, 07:06
The BVS thing was conspicuously absent, it's true.
An acquaintance of mine contributes occasional pieces like this for a few different sites. He says that if your topic is the DCEU, it's usually best to not mention the MCU too much. Because inevitably, the comments (if they're open) will devolve into a DCEU vs. MCU pissing contest. For an article that's about airing some of the dirty laundry with the DCEU, I can see where it might make more sense to sidestep that sort of thing.
And understand, a lot of sites like that one are playing with fire a little bit by posting articles like that. Several of them depend upon some level of access to DC Comics, DCE, WB, etc. It's all part of the dog and pony show. And it's risky to publish articles that vilify prominent DC personnel (i.e., Geoff Johns) when he's still a high muckety-muck in the ruins of DC Comics. Because sites that do that could find themselves getting cut off from juicy stuff in the future.
Sometimes in life, the most you can hope for is a compromise.
I've watched a little more of the full video podcast - that video I shared before was only a snippet of an interview that lasted well over two hours. The guy speaking on behalf of that blog swears they're not in it for clicks, and I assume that includes having no interest in being an access media shill outlet. Whether or not that blog will sell out one day remains to be seen, but as of now, I do appreciate them for tackling a subject a lot of other blogs and news outlets don't dare to.
You're right that these sites need to be very careful and not to piss off the higher-ups at DC/Warner Butchers if they want to protect their access and networking status. The more I think about it, it could be possible that mentioning anything about BvS getting compromised is a lawsuit risk. I'm not a lawyer of course, but I have a feeling that insinuating that Johns might've been responsible in leaking BvS's story could potentially result in a defamation case. Unless Snyder says otherwise, the Metallo and Wallace Keefe similarities make me convinced the film was likely compromised...but would that hold up in court? I wouldn't know.
Nevertheless, the rest of the article was pretty damning enough as it is, so I gotta give them credit for having the balls to put Johns under the microscope.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sun, 26 Apr 2020, 05:56
Looking back at this again, it turns out that WW was yet another movie that was meddled by Geoff Johns, while he was in charge of DC Films at the time.
Not only did Johns appear to have an influence in changing Diana's character arc in terms of continuity between this movie and BvS, but Ares's design and the third act was altered too. It's alleged that he wanted to remove the No Man's Land scene as well, because he thought it was "too dark". Patty Jenkins opposed - together with Zack Snyder's help apparently - and compromised the third act instead.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xnRc3z20kU
Original article: https://theculturednerd.org/2020/04/the-troublesome-history-zack-snyder-geoff-johns-and-the-fall-of-the-dceu/
Geoff Johns is one of those guys who I have a like and equal
dislike for. I didn't become familiar with his work until the early to mid 2000's, and once I did, I found his work in DC Comics to be entertaining. Flash forward (no pun intended) to his association with the DCEU, and what the guy has allegedly done during his stint is incredibly irritating.
If it's true that Johns allegedly wanted to do away with the No Man's Land sequence, then that's just a bone headed move on his part. To me, it comes across as transparently wanting to mirror Disney's MCU (get rid of the earnest sobering tone, and ramp up the comedy and CGI Action). Which is a BIG mistake in my estimation. As far as the "walking away from mankind completely" thing being retconned, that doesn't really bother me so much. Even after just watching BVS in the theaters, I recall thinking that Diana
probably had incognito adventures during the last century. Just much more withdrawn following the tragedy she suffered in her life during WW1, which is only alluded to in BvS. Not exactly spelled out to the audiences.
QuoteThis is a concept art of Ares by Peter McKinstry.
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/57711face3df287500cc2dca/1536240816150-V2R0NVE9RKCGXQAIG26F/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kCgT6DQ9HbGGyYmR8h8P_EcUqsxRUqqbr1mOJYKfIPR7LoDQ9mXPOjoJoqy81S2I8N_N4V1vUb5AoIIIbLZhVYy7Mythp_T-mtop-vrsUOmeInPi9iDjx9w8K4ZfjXt2dsAbWySr0CD-CVoFRITEUjM72w246JbRl3X4MPrQUax4m4bjm9DAHF2kOsIZRJKXnA/PM-716-full-body-turnaround--18-4-16-as.jpg?format=2500w)
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/51b3dc8ee4b051b96ceb10de/1501188758972-2FZI34XW8ZIZRJI2YIN3/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kFCoEfXal7l6C8OLmE_umzB7gQa3H78H3Y0txjaiv_0fDoOvxcdMmMKkDsyUqMSsMWxHk725yiiHCCLfrh8O1z5QHyNOqBUUEtDDsRWrJLTmc_JU2mEKQhNb0sUb-LsihP0aONar-IC-mlNTPYnCQmyllH81ZqGEyroHIParRB4p/wonder-woman-concept-art-reveals-reveals-a-new-menacing-design-for-ares11?format=2500w)
Source: https://petermckinstry.net/wonder-woman-1
And this is what we got in the final product.
(https://i1.wp.com/caps.pictures/201/7-wonderwoman/full/womderwoman-movie-screencaps.com-14052.jpg?strip=all)
Yeah, the concept art design is better. Much more intimidating, and it resembles closely to Nick McKinless's Ares in JL's History Lesson scene.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D3_HEsGWAAABOXm.jpg:large)
Concept art is cool, but I can't say I am the least bit upset with how Ares was presented in the actual film itself. Ares has taken many different appearances in the comics, but I grew up more of a fan of the George Perez rendition where Ares is presented as menacing just from his appearance, but not overly brutish. I honestly can't say I was very familiar with David Thewlis prior to Wonder Woman, but I thought his reveal as Ares slyly stoking the flames of war behind the scenes, was great.
Considering the Ares vs Darkseid sequence in Snyder's JL, I would have much preferred Thewlis reprise Ares, over the apparent 300-esque Ares from the concept art.
QuoteTo think that Geoff Johns, the same prick who wrote Flashpoint and Batman: Earth One, would complain about darkness in a comic book adaptation is pretty f***ing rich. The thought of the NML scene ever being at risk of not making the final cut is mind-boggling. But it's quite typical of the terrible BTS decisions surrounding these movies, especially JL.
As if I need to remind anyone for the umpteenth time, remember this: Johns may not be running DC on film anymore, but he still co-wrote WW84 together with Jenkins. Apparently, the sequel will be the last film on his contract with Warner Butchers before going on his merry way and focus on those awful CW shows. But judging by Gal Gadot's recent comments about why Diana doesn't carry certain weapons in the sequel, it appears his influence is still felt:
It's pretty incredible, but that's Hollywood for you. Opportunists around every corner, and a company who clearly has absolutely no vision or long term plan in their 'shared universe', one can only expect chaos (Oh, hey Disney/Lucasfilms/StarWars). I've grown past the novelty of a shared universe concept in what seems like ages ago. It's just something I no longer have any sort of fascination with. The best DC/WB can hope for now is successful self contained movies that lend themselves to creative freedoms that do not require having to adhere to a specific formula. Give me a good movie, over a 2 hour advertisement for the next chapter.
Quote from: The Joker on Thu, 30 Apr 2020, 01:07
If it's true that Johns allegedly wanted to do away with the No Man's Land sequence, then that's just a bone headed move on his part. To me, it comes across as transparently wanting to mirror Disney's MCU (get rid of the earnest sobering tone, and ramp up the comedy and CGI Action). Which is a BIG mistake in my estimation.
Judging by the comments he gave to Vulture back in 2017, and looking at the differences between Zack Snyder's Justice League and Josstice League (as if changing Suicide Squad wasn't an indicator), it becomes quite clear that copying the competition was the goal all along.
https://www.vulture.com/2017/09/dc-wonder-woman-movie-strategy-universe.html
Speaking of the MCU, it turns out Geoff Johns and Kevin Feige are quite close as they did an internship together at one of Richard Donner's production companies twenty-odd years ago. Unsurprisingly, both men are huge fans of S78.
https://www.newsarama.com/4982-superman-the-secret-history-of-kevin-feige-geoff-johns.html
Johns might've had ambitions of following his friend's footsteps in becoming the head of a popular superhero film franchise, albeit for DC. He certainly made it very clear that he had never supported for Snyder's vision for Superman, nor for Nolan and Goyer's script for MOS. In one of his PR stunts, Johns even started coining the phrase "hope and optimism" to describe the new direction he wanted to take DC on film. Which, again, is quite hypocritical of him to say given he wrote his own share of dark comics.
You have to wonder how this man sleeps with himself. He produced the upcoming Stargirl show recently, and he dedicated the show to his deceased sister. I don't criticise him for that, it's a nice sentiment. But considering he and the studio took advantage of Snyder's own tragedy to reshoot JL, it's quite infuriating. I wouldn't be surprised he's one of those Donner Superman fans who hold it against the Salkinds over firing Richard over Superman II, but lacks self awareness to realise what he did to Snyder was much worse. As unpopular as the Salkinds may be, even they extended professional courtesy to Donner - by allowing him to see the Superman II theatrical cut and let him decide if he wanted to be associated with it in any shape or form. If only Johns took a page out of their book and showed the same courtesy to Snyder over Whedon's cut. Oh, the irony.
Quote from: The Joker on Thu, 30 Apr 2020, 01:07
As far as the "walking away from mankind completely" thing being retconned, that doesn't really bother me so much. Even after just watching BVS in the theaters, I recall thinking that Diana probably had incognito adventures during the last century. Just much more withdrawn following the tragedy she suffered in her life during WW1, which is only alluded to in BvS. Not exactly spelled out to the audiences.
I was thinking the same after the watching the first WW film when it came out. But now that we see snippets of Diana fighting in broad daylight, shopping malls and the White House in the trailer, that theory is looking shaky as time goes on, to say the least.
Quote from: The Joker on Thu, 30 Apr 2020, 01:07
Concept art is cool, but I can't say I am the least bit upset with how Ares was presented in the actual film itself. Ares has taken many different appearances in the comics, but I grew up more of a fan of the George Perez rendition where Ares is presented as menacing just from his appearance, but not overly brutish. I honestly can't say I was very familiar with David Thewlis prior to Wonder Woman, but I thought his reveal as Ares slyly stoking the flames of war behind the scenes, was great.
Considering the Ares vs Darkseid sequence in Snyder's JL, I would have much preferred Thewlis reprise Ares, over the apparent 300-esque Ares from the concept art.
It's funny that you mention that, because Thewlis is listed as playing Ares in the closing credits of Josstice League, despite not appearing in the film at all. Snyder once heavily implied on Vero that he intended to digitally capture his face on Ares. So Nick McKinless would act as a body double, but David Thewlis would've been credited as the actor playing the role. Nevertheless, Ares does appear in Josstice League, albeit within a second, and he resembles exactly like in the concept art.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D3_TnjHW0AIStIE.png)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EORlDe_U4AAE07q?format=jpg)
Quote from: The Joker on Thu, 30 Apr 2020, 01:07
It's pretty incredible, but that's Hollywood for you. Opportunists around every corner, and a company who clearly has absolutely no vision or long term plan in their 'shared universe', one can only expect chaos (Oh, hey Disney/Lucasfilms/StarWars). I've grown past the novelty of a shared universe concept in what seems like ages ago. It's just something I no longer have any sort of fascination with. The best DC/WB can hope for now is successful self contained movies that lend themselves to creative freedoms that do not require having to adhere to a specific formula. Give me a good movie, over a 2 hour advertisement for the next chapter.
I think it goes beyond whether or not one is still fascinated with the shared universe concept. The whole Snyder cut situation, and the horrendous circumstances surrounding it, has left such a bad taste in my mouth that I don't have any trust or care in what Warner Butchers anymore - neither for DC or in general. As much as I hate to say it, I don't even trust what Patty Jenkins says either. It's bad enough we get Gal Gadot giving a poorly conceived explanation why Diana doesn't carry a sword in WW84, but Jenkins is developing a spinoff on the Amazons...with Geoff Johns yet again.
Quote from: Patty Jenkins
I'm not going to direct it, hopefully. I'm going to try really hard not to. It's not going to be easy. But [Wonder Woman 1984 co-writer and former DC Entertainment President and Chief Creative Officer] Geoff Johns and I came up with the story, and we sold the pitch, and we're going to get it going. I'll produce it, for sure.
https://www.cinemablend.com/news/2495385/wow-patty-jenkins-already-has-plans-for-wonder-woman-spinoff-and-threequel
No thank you, I'll stick to Netflix. Sure, Netflix productions can be hit and miss, but I'm interested in their variety of content, as opposed to all the desperate attempts from Warner Butchers right now.
Finally, I don't like to single out Johns as the major scapegoat; after all, I still blame Warner Butchers the most for this ordeal. I don't even want to paint him as the bad guy, believe it or not. But when you consider key DCEU people like Clay Enos, Diane Nelson (even though she's covering her own ass and isn't innocent either), David Ayer and now Zack Snyder tacitly showing their disapproval of Johns, as well as the shady background dealings with him getting Whedon on board for JL, you have no choice but to consider the damage he has done. The fact that he still has a contract with Warner, either on film or TV, goes to show he has strong networking ties in the industry. Somehow, I have a feeling anybody else in his position would've been blacklisted from showbiz for life for costing the studio billions of dollars, both in terms of budget and box office.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Thu, 30 Apr 2020, 11:02
Judging by the comments he gave to Vulture back in 2017, and looking at the differences between Zack Snyder's Justice League and Josstice League (as if changing Suicide Squad wasn't an indicator), it becomes quite clear that copying the competition was the goal all along.
https://www.vulture.com/2017/09/dc-wonder-woman-movie-strategy-universe.html
Speaking of the MCU, it turns out Geoff Johns and Kevin Feige are quite close as they did an internship together at one of Richard Donner's production companies twenty-odd years ago. Unsurprisingly, both men are huge fans of S78.
https://www.newsarama.com/4982-superman-the-secret-history-of-kevin-feige-geoff-johns.html
Johns might've had ambitions of following his friend's footsteps in becoming the head of a popular superhero film franchise, albeit for DC. He certainly made it very clear that he had never supported for Snyder's vision for Superman, nor for Nolan and Goyer's script for MOS. In one of his PR stunts, Johns even started coining the phrase "hope and optimism" to describe the new direction he wanted to take DC on film. Which, again, is quite hypocritical of him to say given he wrote his own share of dark comics.
You have to wonder how this man sleeps with himself. He produced the upcoming Stargirl show recently, and he dedicated the show to his deceased sister. I don't criticise him for that, it's a nice sentiment. But considering he and the studio took advantage of Snyder's own tragedy to reshoot JL, it's quite infuriating. I wouldn't be surprised he's one of those Donner Superman fans who hold it against the Salkinds over firing Richard over Superman II, but lacks self awareness to realise what he did to Snyder was much worse. As unpopular as the Salkinds may be, even they extended professional courtesy to Donner - by allowing him to see the Superman II theatrical cut and let him decide if he wanted to be associated with it in any shape or form. If only Johns took a page out of their book and showed the same courtesy to Snyder over Whedon's cut. Oh, the irony.
Thank you for that information. I was not aware, unless I just completely forgot about it which is definitely possible, that Johns and Feige were acquainted with one another. I believe the theory that Johns wanted to be DC's version of Feige is astute. As it was recently stated by a former DC Comics artist, Ethan Van Scriver, on one of his youtube videos discussing Jim Lee's promotion, that Ethan had asked Johns about the possibility of Johns taking the EIC job at Dc Comics at some point, and Johns responded by saying that "His ambitions was much greater than just being the EIC of DC Comics." Indicating that Ethan thought Johns would have turned down the job flat if it was even offered to him.
Quote
I was thinking the same after the watching the first WW film when it came out. But now that we see snippets of Diana fighting in broad daylight, shopping malls and the White House in the trailer, that theory is looking shaky as time goes on, to say the least.
Yeah, ideally one would want continuity within a series of films to be as tight and consistent as possible.
Quote
It's funny that you mention that, because Thewlis is listed as playing Ares in the closing credits of Josstice League, despite not appearing in the film at all. Snyder once heavily implied on Vero that he intended to digitally capture his face on Ares. So Nick McKinless would act as a body double, but David Thewlis would've been credited as the actor playing the role. Nevertheless, Ares does appear in Josstice League, albeit within a second, and he resembles exactly like in the concept art.
I guess the approach of digitally capturing Thewlis' face onto the body double would have worked fine, but I personally would have preferred Ares to look more similar to how we was shown in WW 2017. The 300 look works for Zeus, and even Hercules, but I think Ares reappearing in Snyder's JL, just as he was in WW, would have been more cohesive and welcomed.
Quote
I think it goes beyond whether or not one is still fascinated with the shared universe concept. The whole Snyder cut situation, and the horrendous circumstances surrounding it, has left such a bad taste in my mouth that I don't have any trust or care in what Warner Butchers anymore - neither for DC or in general. As much as I hate to say it, I don't even trust what Patty Jenkins says either. It's bad enough we get Gal Gadot giving a poorly conceived explanation why Diana doesn't carry a sword in WW84, but Jenkins is developing a spinoff on the Amazons...with Geoff Johns yet again.
My anger has turned into apathy at this point. The sketchy backstage politics, dishonesty, discourteous manner, ect ect, that has transpired at Warner ever since they decided to compete with Disney/Marvel, and how they continually push the panic button and self kneecapping their projects, all leaves me with a complete non-interest in any attempt at shared universe continuity that Warners will ever attempt at producing. I suppose just stating my own lack of fascination with the novelty, was a more discreet way of stating my overall apathetic attitude towards the intended plan they have now. Whatever that is.
Quote from: The Joker on Thu, 30 Apr 2020, 19:09
Thank you for that information. I was not aware, unless I just completely forgot about it which is definitely possible, that Johns and Feige were acquainted with one another. I believe the theory that Johns wanted to be DC's version of Feige is astute. As it was recently stated by a former DC Comics artist, Ethan Van Scriver, on one of his youtube videos discussing Jim Lee's promotion, that Ethan had asked Johns about the possibility of Johns taking the EIC job at Dc Comics at some point, and Johns responded by saying that "His ambitions was much greater than just being the EIC of DC Comics." Indicating that Ethan thought Johns would have turned down the job flat if it was even offered to him.
You're welcome. I'm not surprised that Van Sciver got the impression that Johns had bigger ambitions than becoming editor-in-chief at DC Comics. Johns's big ego and sense of entitlement might have started when Richard Donner endorsed him to write a new Superman screenplay back in 2008. This was soon after they collaborated together on Action Comics.
https://www.newsarama.com/1285-richard-donner-give-geoff-johns-the-superman-movie.html
It doesn't help that Johns loved Superman Returns, seemingly because of the Donner references above all else. It's no surprise we got to hear that little snippet of the John Williams theme in Josstice League.
https://forums.superherohype.com/threads/geoff-johns-and-richard-donner-love-superman-returns.238572/
People can say whatever they want about Snyder's films, but the truth is they still brought in hype, attention and passionate debate. Besides, even if you don't like Snyder, you can't discredit him for casting the likes of Gal Gadot and Jason Momoa for Wonder Woman and Aquaman respectively. Johns's only success so far seems to be Aquaman, which he co-wrote the story. Otherwise, Green Lantern and Josstice League were failures. The former put the character back in development hell for years, and the latter leaves behind a franchise that drove actors away, cherry picks certain characters, a broken continuity, and a fanbase further divided. Way to go in trying to emulate your friend, Geoff!
Speaking of GL and JL, did you know that it's heavily implied that he was going to make a surprise appearance in the Snyder cut? FFS.
https://thefanboyseo.com/2019/11/29/we-almost-had-a-green-lantern-in-zack-snyders-justice-league/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGUUMIGuxGU
The rabbit hole gets deeper and deeper, doesn't it? The irony of Johns, a GL writer himself, may have had involvement in cutting out the character's possible big screen return, in a JL movie. >:(
I don't know how successful WW84 will be. But will it be worth it after everything else we lost? I don't f***ing think so.
Quote from: The Joker on Thu, 30 Apr 2020, 19:09
I guess the approach of digitally capturing Thewlis' face onto the body double would have worked fine, but I personally would have preferred Ares to look more similar to how we was shown in WW 2017. The 300 look works for Zeus, and even Hercules, but I think Ares reappearing in Snyder's JL, just as he was in WW, would have been more cohesive and welcomed.
Regardless of which Ares design we prefer, it's safe to say the drastic change in the villains' original designs goes right back to Steppenwolf. I think we can agree the change between how we first see him as a roaring, hulking monster in the BvS Ultimate Edition compared to his more comic-looking (yet inferior CGI rendering) appearance in JL was a compromise to make him less frightening to the audience.
Quote from: The Joker on Thu, 30 Apr 2020, 19:09
My anger has turned into apathy at this point. The sketchy backstage politics, dishonesty, discourteous manner, ect ect, that has transpired at Warner ever since they decided to compete with Disney/Marvel, and how they continually push the panic button and self kneecapping their projects, all leaves me with a complete non-interest in any attempt at shared universe continuity that Warners will ever attempt at producing. I suppose just stating my own lack of fascination with the novelty, was a more discreet way of stating my overall apathetic attitude towards the intended plan they have now. Whatever that is.
Therein lies the problem: Warner have NO plan. Not even the standalone films they're making are really plans, but rather a gamble to see what sells to the audience, and what doesn't it. The moment another movie doesn't meet the critical and financial benchmark they want to achieve, they will simply throw those movies away. It's hard to get hyped up for future productions knowing they will callously take advantage of tragedies to basically write off the movie if it doesn't meet their own criteria e.g. JL.
Warner are clueless. Not only did they skip last year's SDCC and let Marvel take hold of the limelight, their most successful film in an otherwise underwhelming box office year was the one they never believed in: they sold half the profits of that Joaquin Phoenix movie before hand because they didn't think it would be successful, and even reportedly gave the production a cheap budget to discourage them from making the movie. Lo and behold, that movie ended up becoming the most profitable comic film of all time.
https://seekingalpha.com/news/3509924-warner-bros-bad-call-on-joker-to-be-expensive
https://screenrant.com/joker-movie-box-office-success-warner-bros-profit-split/
Personally, I've no interest in ever seeing that movie, but that's irrelevant. The point is the studio doesn't know what they're doing and the fact they still financially handicapped themselves with their biggest success confirms this. As you say, they will keep failing because of their tendency to push the panic button and sabotage their own projects. It's yet another why I can't bring myself to get excited for a new Batman movie even if I try. If there's one thing I learned after Affleck's Batman run ending prematurely with his last true film appearance being withheld to this day, is never get invested into a series. If the reboot doesn't do well enough to satisfy mass audiences, critics and get that box office benchmark, they'll simply reboot it again. Assuming they don't affect the previous final product with reshoots first. Let's just hope next time there won't be another tragedy for those vultures to pounce on as an excuse to "save" the film and mislead the audience. Bastards.
Mmm.
Technically, there's a GL in the hacked up JL movie we already have.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 1 May 2020, 20:25
Mmm.
Technically, there's a GL in the hacked up JL movie we already have.
I know you were being tongue-in-cheek, but as Snyder says, that character in the History Lesson scene was never intended to be THE Green Lantern.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EM7MD1-VAAcmZcZ?format=jpg&name=large)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EM7MHwOUUAAdI5B?format=jpg&name=large)
https://www.cinemablend.com/news/2487576/looks-like-the-snyder-cut-of-justice-league-would-have-included-a-different-green-lantern
I'm quite surprised Johns and Warner didn't delete that character too, to be honest.
While promoting WW84, Patty Jenkins has finally confirmed the first WW film's ending was changed.
Quote
The original end of the first movie was also smaller, but the studio made me change it at the last minute. So that's always been a little bit of a bummer that that's the one thing people talk about, because I agreed.
And I told the studio we didn't have time to do it, but it was what it was. I ended up loving it, but that was not the original ending of the movie."
https://www.eaglesvine.com/entertainment/wonder-woman-director-patty-jenkins-reveals-she-was-asked-to-change-the-ending-at-the-last-minute-heres-why/85299/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNRuDVEzTH8
Evidently, a certain someone is playing the goddess Asteria in this. Looking very much forward to that particular scene.
Quote from: The Joker on Mon, 21 Dec 2020, 02:11
Evidently, a certain someone is playing the goddess Asteria in this. Looking very much forward to that particular scene.
You seeing the movie straight away, Joker? I won't be able to, because I have prior commitments. But a week later I'll be taking my seat in the cinema. Been listening to Hans' score in the meantime - really enjoying Open Road and Themyscira particularly.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Tue, 22 Dec 2020, 03:15
You seeing the movie straight away, Joker? I won't be able to, because I have prior commitments. But a week later I'll be taking my seat in the cinema. Been listening to Hans' score in the meantime - really enjoying Open Road and Themyscira particularly.
Yeah, man. The current plan is that me and a few friends are going to check it out at the local cinema on Christmas day. Hope to have my thoughts about the movie posted on the forum by the end of the week, but I am well aware of my pattern of belated reviews.
Still would like to know what Diana was doing between the end of World War I and 1984. That's not something you can brush off when you're dealing with an immortal character. She's not exactly keeping a low profile like Wolverine did while she's working for a world renowned museum and showing up to events dressing sexy. At least the TV show kept the whole glasses charade that they decided to toss out the window in the first movie.
Plus it's very confusing with the pre-established continuity of her character in the previous films. I've heard that they're already trying to wipe out Batman v. Superman and Justice League because it largely contradicts what Jenkins wants to do. It also doesn't help that Snyder's Justice League is coming in March.
Well, this is a bit of a bombshell.
Quote
Patty Jenkins has been honest in recent "Wonder Woman 1984" interviews about what it's like to clash with a Hollywood studio over a comic book tentpole. The director has detailed battles against Warner Bros. over the original ending to "Wonder Woman" and over the double opening of "Wonder Woman 1984," but Jenkins was at her most candid during her appearance on Marc Maron's "WTF" podcast (via The Playlist). In reflecting on the development of 2017's "Wonder Woman," Jenkins described an "internal war" at Warner Bros., where the studio was apparently less interested in her ideas than in the symbol of a woman director helming a female-fronted superhero movie.
"They wanted to hire me like a beard; they wanted me to walk around on set as a woman, but it was their story and their vision," Jenkins said. "And my ideas? They didn't even want to read my script. There was such mistrust of a different way of doing things and a different point of view."
Jenkins continued, "Even when I first joined 'Wonder Woman' it was like, 'Uhh, yeah, OK, but let's do it this other way.' But I was like, 'Women don't want to see that. Her being harsh and tough and cutting people's heads off... I'm a 'Wonder Woman' fan, that's not what we're looking for.' Still, I could feel that shaky nervousness [on their part] of my point of view."
https://web.archive.org/web/20210104174228if_/https://www.indiewire.com/2021/01/patty-jenkins-war-warner-bros-wonder-woman-mistrust-1234607432/
Earlier today, Zack Snyder was interviewed with the Comic Book Debate YouTube channel, and displayed THIS picture of Wonder Woman holding three severed heads, in the background of his office.
(https://i.imgur.com/3oBc45o.jpg)
https://youtu.be/9ykdSEGQjZA
From what I've heard, this picture was meant to take place in the Crimean War. It was used as a placeholder image in BvS until they changed it with that photograph of Diana, Steve Trevor, and the rest of the WWI gang.
Snyder and Jenkins appear to be very supportive and complimentary towards each other in public. But I find it hard to believe that Snyder showing off that picture was a coincidence, going by what Jenkins has been saying about her vision of Wonder Woman.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Tue, 5 Jan 2021, 01:34
Well, this is a bit of a bombshell.
Quote
Patty Jenkins has been honest in recent "Wonder Woman 1984" interviews about what it's like to clash with a Hollywood studio over a comic book tentpole. The director has detailed battles against Warner Bros. over the original ending to "Wonder Woman" and over the double opening of "Wonder Woman 1984," but Jenkins was at her most candid during her appearance on Marc Maron's "WTF" podcast (via The Playlist). In reflecting on the development of 2017's "Wonder Woman," Jenkins described an "internal war" at Warner Bros., where the studio was apparently less interested in her ideas than in the symbol of a woman director helming a female-fronted superhero movie.
"They wanted to hire me like a beard; they wanted me to walk around on set as a woman, but it was their story and their vision," Jenkins said. "And my ideas? They didn't even want to read my script. There was such mistrust of a different way of doing things and a different point of view."
Jenkins continued, "Even when I first joined 'Wonder Woman' it was like, 'Uhh, yeah, OK, but let's do it this other way.' But I was like, 'Women don't want to see that. Her being harsh and tough and cutting people's heads off... I'm a 'Wonder Woman' fan, that's not what we're looking for.' Still, I could feel that shaky nervousness [on their part] of my point of view."
https://web.archive.org/web/20210104174228if_/https://www.indiewire.com/2021/01/patty-jenkins-war-warner-bros-wonder-woman-mistrust-1234607432/
Earlier today, Zack Snyder was interviewed with the Comic Book Debate YouTube channel, and displayed THIS picture of Wonder Woman holding three severed heads, in the background of his office.
(https://i.imgur.com/3oBc45o.jpg)
https://youtu.be/9ykdSEGQjZA
From what I've heard, this picture was meant to take place in the Crimean War. It was used as a placeholder image in BvS until they changed it with that photograph of Diana, Steve Trevor, and the rest of the WWI gang.
Snyder and Jenkins appear to be very supportive and complimentary towards each other in public. But I find it hard to believe that Snyder showing off that picture was a coincidence, going by what Jenkins has been saying about her vision of Wonder Woman.
Patty Jenkins, what a letdown. As I understand the situation, casting Gadot was all Snyder's move and so was the WWI setting of the movie. Basically, Snyder all but giftwrapped a lead and a basic story for Jenkins to play with.
Her move was to eject him and everyone who helped her succeed when the time came for the sequel. The results are spelled out in that movie's critical and box office reception.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 5 Jan 2021, 02:44
Patty Jenkins, what a letdown. As I understand the situation, casting Gadot was all Snyder's move and so was the WWI setting of the movie. Basically, Snyder all but giftwrapped a lead and a basic story for Jenkins to play with.
Her move was to eject him and everyone who helped her succeed when the time came for the sequel. The results are spelled out in that movie's critical and box office reception.
Yep. The fan reaction means way more, given the climate the film was released in. She had her vision and it sucked.
No swords in WW84, just the lasso. And swinging around stupidly all the time, encroaching on Spider-Man's turf. That's all I think of when I see it. Along with the Donner worship, get the funk out of here Patty. I'm done with you.
Wonder Woman as a warrior was the right direction, but she obviously wanted Lynda Carter fluff. I believe without doubt WB wanted a token woman helming WW no matter what. Wrong move. They should've hired someone else. I'd clash with her too.
"Women don't want to see that", as if she speaks for all women, and as if women are the only audience for the character. The real WonderGal will be seen in ZSJL, thank you very much, particularly in Steppenwolf's last moments.
If I were the studio and she spoke that way about me, I'd cut her loose yesterday. They're all meant to get together for a third movie after that? Let DisneyWars have her. Another 'the Force is female' blowhard who can denigrate another once loved franchise.
Here is a better look of the Crimean War photograph.
(https://i.imgur.com/mWBY5SA.jpg)
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 5 Jan 2021, 02:44
Patty Jenkins, what a letdown. As I understand the situation, casting Gadot was all Snyder's move.
Yes, that's correct. Gal Gadot even showed her gratitude on social media. As much as most people don't want to admit, Gadot owes her career to Snyder.
(https://i.imgur.com/3ZawYGO.jpg)
While I'm at it, here is a pic of Gadot in costume on the set of BvS.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EpcoEZQVoAcRE-W?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
https://twitter.com/ZackSnyder/status/1339585725805678594/
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 5 Jan 2021, 02:44
Basically, Snyder all but giftwrapped a lead and a basic story for Jenkins to play with.
Her move was to eject him and everyone who helped her succeed when the time came for the sequel. The results are spelled out in that movie's critical and box office reception.
Snyder was credited for the story in WW2017 along with Jason Fuchs and Allan Heinberg, while Geoff Johns did some uncredited rewrites. Even if Snyder's input within the story was small, his casting of Gadot in the role was influential enough as it is. Nonetheless, and I said this before, the action scenes in that movie had that distinctive Snyderesque slow-motion effect, which was something missing from MOS and BvS. And from what I heard, those scenes were coordinated by his stunt team, and Jenkins decided to replace them for the sequel.
The development for the sequel would've happened in the middle of 2017. That was during the time when Johns was in charge of DC Films and was trying to get rid of all traces of Snyder's influence, starting with JL. My guess is Jenkins thought she had a sure bet with Johns because they both share identical creative sensibilities, i.e. nostalgic take on superheroes.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Tue, 5 Jan 2021, 07:41My guess is Jenkins thought she had a sure bet with Johns because they both share identical creative sensibilities, i.e. nostalgic take on superheroes.
Could be.
And hell, I'll say that I don't necessarily begrudge a nostalgic angle. If someone came along and made a Superman movie that hit all the same basic tingles as Donner's STM, I'd be fine with that.
What irks me is that the DCEU had an established creative direction and it got derailed because Geoff Johns (and others) didn't get their way. Snyder's films were profitable by any reasonable standard and the future was wide open.
Now, it'll take a miracle for Snyder to be able to pick up where he left off, even if ZSJL goes swimmingly. The critics will go out of their way to roast the movie so literally everything hinges on audience response.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 5 Jan 2021, 15:21
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Tue, 5 Jan 2021, 07:41My guess is Jenkins thought she had a sure bet with Johns because they both share identical creative sensibilities, i.e. nostalgic take on superheroes.
Could be.
And hell, I'll say that I don't necessarily begrudge a nostalgic angle. If someone came along and made a Superman movie that hit all the same basic tingles as Donner's STM, I'd be fine with that.
What irks me is that the DCEU had an established creative direction and it got derailed because Geoff Johns (and others) didn't get their way. Snyder's films were profitable by any reasonable standard and the future was wide open.
I share your frustrations. Looking back at what Geoff Johns was saying to these blog sites back in 2017, he took advantage of the first WW film's success so he could outline his agenda:
Quote
"Get to the essence of the character and make the movies fun," said Johns with regards to the new approach from DC. "Just make sure that the characters are the characters with heart, humor, hope, heroics, and optimism at the base."
https://www.flickeringmyth.com/2017/06/geoff-johns-says-heart-humor-hope-heroics-and-optimism-are-now-the-focus-of-the-dceu/
I suppose he believed he could take a lot of credit because he rewrote the film's third act, which broke continuity from present-day Diana in BvS.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 5 Jan 2021, 15:21
Now, it'll take a miracle for Snyder to be able to pick up where he left off, even if ZSJL goes swimmingly. The critics will go out of their way to roast the movie so literally everything hinges on audience response.
If there is any continuation of the Snyderverse, it will be based on two factors. The first factor is AT&T and WarnerMedia would want to look at making original content for HBO Max, if they're going to compete with the likes of Disney+ and Netflix. The second factor will depend on the fans supporting the hell out of ZSJL and help it do crazy viewing numbers once it premieres. That will likely include purchasing the film on video on demand on Google Play, on Blu-Ray or whatever. If a third WW film can get greenlit because of WW84 doing well on HBO Max then anything is possible.
The critics want to make Snyder their bogeyman at all costs and will slander him at every opportunity. You know how biased they are when they can't even credit him for his influence in the first WW film, let alone casting Gadot. But I'm not so concerned about them because they are a lost cause, and lots of people tend to see through their nonsense nowadays.
What does concern me is WB Pictures. AT&T and HBO Max are enthusiastic about their investment and support for ZSJL. But WB Pictures - or to be more specific, Toby Emmerich and his cronies - would be seething as they have to follow orders from their bosses.
I wouldn't be surprised if the rumours of internal civil war within the whole organisational level are true. AT&T and WarnerMedia appear to look at streaming as the future of entertainment, whereas not only WB Pictures are still clinging onto the old Hollywood model, they have to accept the film they tried to bury is now coming out. I can't help but feel they will look at every way to sabotage it. Having the original Hallelujah trailer leaked before it premiered at DC FanDome, or writing hit pieces about studio executives describing ZSJL as a "cul-de-sac" despite the investment, is not a coincidence. In addition to writing fake press releases that were slammed by Jason Momoa as an attempt to intimidate those speaking out about the JL investigations, I'm convinced WB will stop at nothing. And that's why the studio needs need to be cleaned up.
Back on-topic: Snyder tweeted this about the Crimean War photo.
Quote from: Zack Snyder
(https://i.imgur.com/mWBY5SA.jpg)
Wonder Woman 1854 - This amazing image shot by Stephen Berkman of an else-world, war weary Diana, who had chased Aries across the battlefields of the world and had yet to meet Steve, who would help her restore her faith in mankind and love itself.
https://twitter.com/ZackSnyder/status/1346545263788191744
If Patty Jenkins doesn't do another sequel, maybe they should look at Snyder's synopsis. ;)
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Tue, 5 Jan 2021, 01:34
Well, this is a bit of a bombshell.
Quote
Patty Jenkins has been honest in recent "Wonder Woman 1984" interviews about what it's like to clash with a Hollywood studio over a comic book tentpole. The director has detailed battles against Warner Bros. over the original ending to "Wonder Woman" and over the double opening of "Wonder Woman 1984," but Jenkins was at her most candid during her appearance on Marc Maron's "WTF" podcast (via The Playlist). In reflecting on the development of 2017's "Wonder Woman," Jenkins described an "internal war" at Warner Bros., where the studio was apparently less interested in her ideas than in the symbol of a woman director helming a female-fronted superhero movie.
"They wanted to hire me like a beard; they wanted me to walk around on set as a woman, but it was their story and their vision," Jenkins said. "And my ideas? They didn't even want to read my script. There was such mistrust of a different way of doing things and a different point of view."
Jenkins continued, "Even when I first joined 'Wonder Woman' it was like, 'Uhh, yeah, OK, but let's do it this other way.' But I was like, 'Women don't want to see that. Her being harsh and tough and cutting people's heads off... I'm a 'Wonder Woman' fan, that's not what we're looking for.' Still, I could feel that shaky nervousness [on their part] of my point of view."
https://web.archive.org/web/20210104174228if_/https://www.indiewire.com/2021/01/patty-jenkins-war-warner-bros-wonder-woman-mistrust-1234607432/
Jenkins is now saying her comments were taken out of context.
Quote from: Patty Jenkins
Versions of this article seems to be everywhere and not true. There was no "war" with warner bros. over ww. I'm talking about 10 years of discussions with 10 different execs through them. And whole beard thing was about other projects at other studios.
I felt extremely supported in my vision on both films by @wbpictures, @ZackSnyder all the producers and everyone on board our eventual team. Just was a long road to get to make it. Let's chill the dramatic headlines like "war".
https://twitter.com/PattyJenks/status/1346643637891780609
I pinpointed her comments in that interview with Marc Maron, and yes, it appears half of her comments were indeed taken out of context. She made the beard comment when she spoke about the attention she was getting after Monster, her directorial debut, and long before she was hired to direct WW. She had an on-and-off working relationship with WB over doing WW since 2004.
However, Jenkins did describe how she suspected "an internal war" was going on over what Wonder Woman should be, because the production had thirty different scripts by the time she was hired.
You can hear from 48:50 to 53:45.
http://www.wtfpod.com/podcast/episode-1187-patty-jenkins
The Crimean War photograph is interesting, and one way to go about it.
Although I think the Wonder Woman movie we got in 2017 had about the right balance of the character/history that one would expect from a long awaited cinematic debut of Wonder Woman, the Crimean War photograph idea of her having fought during many wars over the span of many years, collecting warriors from various locations far and wide to her cause, in search of the goal in reaching the God of War, Ares.
Actually, I would go a step further, and have the film take place over decades/centuries with the Crimean War photograph taking place somewhere around the middle of the film. With the 3rd act taking place during the 1918 setting where she meets Steve, and finally faces off against Ares with the backdrop of World War 1 (conveyed as being Ares' endgame) being firmly established. Only for Diana to find out, just like in the movie itself, that killing Ares wouldn't just automatically stop humanity going to war. As that was something I liked about the movie, where Ares states, and I'm paraphrasing here; "I merely provided the suggestion, Diana. I didn't make them go to war. They WANTED this!"
That sort of revelation, under the pretext of believing a God was solely responsible for all the wars that she took battled in, would have carried extra weight within the narrative I believe. Course Diana stays the course, and rejects Ares offer to join him and turn her back on humanity, but in the grand scheme of things, a depiction like this would be in keeping with Diana's subdued/withdrawn intro in modern times with BvS. Where she is clearly hesitant/resistant to get involved as Wonder Woman until she feels like it's absolutely necessary (with the arrival of Doomsday making it unavoidable!).
With WW1984, it's clear Patty Jenkins probably gravitates towards a more Silver Age/Bronze Age Wonder Woman (which I'm sure was enthusiastically prodded and supported by Warners brass during the development), just as Geoff Johns obviously has a overt infatuation with the more gentle Donner Superman formula. However, the 'warrior' aspect/depiction of Wonder Woman in the comics has been more pushed to the forefront for years now. The character is pretty pliable.
EDIT: Fun little homage to the Crimean War photograph combined with the ZSJL. ;D
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eq-u2DLXYAMXBhB?format=jpg&name=large)
Nice idea Joker. But even so, I've seen comments online saying they would be up to see this come to life, as an Elseworlds-type of production. From what I've heard WW84, it appears that's what Wonder Woman solo films have become, episodic in nature at best.
I found this interview with Allan Heinberg, as he talked about his experiences writing the first WW film. He mentioned Ben Affleck was supposed to reprise his role as Bruce Wayne in the end, in what would've been a bookend going into JL.
https://youtu.be/70qU-DnCTHU?t=1801
Heinberg claimed it never got filmed because Affleck was unavailable, but I suspect Johns and Jenkins scrapped the idea seeing as they wanted Diana to keep fighting for the next one hundred years. The problem with that is it completely neglects the question over Diana's whereabouts in WWII.
QuoteThe problem with that is it completely neglects the question over Diana's whereabouts in WWII.
There was a picture of Diana in WW84 appearing at a liberated concentration camp. No doubt Gadot used her producer credit to have that in the movie so that no one would question why didn't Wonder Woman help out during the Holocaust.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Tue, 5 Jan 2021, 07:41Yes, that's correct. Gal Gadot even showed her gratitude on social media. As much as most people don't want to admit, Gadot owes her career to Snyder.
I wouldn't necessarily agree with that. I wouldn't say any actor particularly owes their success to a director who may have hired them based on their performance or whathaveyou. God blessed her with everything she's gotten, LORD willing. She'd also already had a growing role in the Fast & Furious movies by that point.
QuoteSnyder was credited for the story in WW2017 along with Jason Fuchs and Allan Heinberg, while Geoff Johns did some uncredited rewrites. Even if Snyder's input within the story was small, his casting of Gadot in the role was influential enough as it is.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Wed, 6 Jan 2021, 01:01The critics want to make Snyder their bogeyman at all costs and will slander him at every opportunity. You know how biased they are when they can't even credit him for his influence in the first WW film, let alone casting Gadot. But I'm not so concerned about them because they are a lost cause, and lots of people tend to see through their nonsense nowadays.
Lost cause? Why does someone disliking those movies, make them that? This isn't the Gospel. It's a dumb movie. Casting Gal Gadot can mean somethings, but that doesn't have to mean he's responsible for who the character is written as, as a whole, in the WW movie. And he can have influence on it, but, as far as I've read, he didn't write the script, but wrote the story, with other writers. I don't really pin Man Of Steel on Nolan for a similar credit. Why should I, or maybe others, do that for Snyder?
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 5 Jan 2021, 02:44Patty Jenkins, what a letdown. As I understand the situation, casting Gadot was all Snyder's move and so was the WWI setting of the movie. Basically, Snyder all but giftwrapped a lead and a basic story for Jenkins to play with.
Her move was to eject him and everyone who helped her succeed when the time came for the sequel. The results are spelled out in that movie's critical and box office reception.
Snyder isn't the only one who worked on it. He doesn't have a script credit, but a story one. Other people were involved. Why should I see him casting Gadot as the end all be all of the movie? Why shouldn't I, or others, see it as a nice casting choice, that some may think, me included, happen to pay off with a different director, along with the story element?
Is that really what spells out the movie's box office reception? Why think that, with the situations, now? Wasn't there criticism of Snyder's movies as well? Why is it that a spell out for this?
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Tue, 5 Jan 2021, 01:34Snyder and Jenkins appear to be very supportive and complimentary towards each other in public. But I find it hard to believe that Snyder showing off that picture was a coincidence, going by what Jenkins has been saying about her vision of Wonder Woman.
If what you're suggesting is what I think, I don't understand why you'd suggest it. To me, that doesn't sound like a positive light being shed on him by the suggestion, if it's what I think.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Tue, 5 Jan 2021, 03:16Yep. The fan reaction means way more, given the climate the film was released in. She had her vision and it sucked.
No swords in WW84, just the lasso. And swinging around stupidly all the time, encroaching on Spider-Man's turf. That's all I think of when I see it. Along with the Donner worship, get the funk out of here Patty. I'm done with you.
Wonder Woman as a warrior was the right direction, but she obviously wanted Lynda Carter fluff. I believe without doubt WB wanted a token woman helming WW no matter what. Wrong move. They should've hired someone else. I'd clash with her too.
"Women don't want to see that", as if she speaks for all women, and as if women are the only audience for the character. The real WonderGal will be seen in ZSJL, thank you very much, particularly in Steppenwolf's last moments.
If I were the studio and she spoke that way about me, I'd cut her loose yesterday. They're all meant to get together for a third movie after that? Let DisneyWars have her. Another 'the Force is female' blowhard who can denigrate another once loved franchise.
Who decides what's the real version and what's not, or what's wrong or not or who should've been hired or not? Who decides it's bad or not? I don't think it's bad, like that, anymore than what's been done before, writing construction wise. Why is Donner fanism worse than Snyder fanism?
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 5 Jan 2021, 15:21What irks me is that the DCEU had an established creative direction and it got derailed because Geoff Johns (and others) didn't get their way. Snyder's films were profitable by any reasonable standard and the future was wide open.
Why is Snyder's creative vision the only one that should be adhered to? Why should only he get his way? Why can't Johns and Jenkins tell stories the way they want? Why should Snyder get carte blanche if those involved don't like his way of doing things or want to do things their way?
Quote from: Dagenspear on Wed, 13 Jan 2021, 13:29Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 5 Jan 2021, 15:21What irks me is that the DCEU had an established creative direction and it got derailed because Geoff Johns (and others) didn't get their way. Snyder's films were profitable by any reasonable standard and the future was wide open.
Why is Snyder's creative vision the only one that should be adhered to? Why should only he get his way? Why can't Johns and Jenkins tell stories the way they want? Why should Snyder get carte blanche if those involved don't like his way of doing things or want to do things their way?
Because Snyder was originally the creative pointman for the DCEU. Johns went out of his way to torpedo Snyder's vision and story because of course he did. The DCEU got dismantled for no obvious reason. I don't care about other filmmakers having their own vision. What I wanted was for Snyder's vision to be left tf alone.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 13 Jan 2021, 14:23
Because Snyder was originally the creative pointman for the DCEU. Johns went out of his way to torpedo Snyder's vision and story because of course he did. The DCEU got dismantled for no obvious reason. I don't care about other filmmakers having their own vision. What I wanted was for Snyder's vision to be left tf alone.
Snyder, to his credit, was never selfish. He was very collaborative, open-minded, and encouraged the likes of Allan Heinberg to adopt their own vision of WW, as you can see in the video link I shared in my last post. It's a shame that Johns didn't return the favour.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 13 Jan 2021, 14:23
Quote from: Dagenspear on Wed, 13 Jan 2021, 13:29Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 5 Jan 2021, 15:21What irks me is that the DCEU had an established creative direction and it got derailed because Geoff Johns (and others) didn't get their way. Snyder's films were profitable by any reasonable standard and the future was wide open.
Why is Snyder's creative vision the only one that should be adhered to? Why should only he get his way? Why can't Johns and Jenkins tell stories the way they want? Why should Snyder get carte blanche if those involved don't like his way of doing things or want to do things their way?
Because Snyder was originally the creative pointman for the DCEU. Johns went out of his way to torpedo Snyder's vision and story because of course he did. The DCEU got dismantled for no obvious reason. I don't care about other filmmakers having their own vision. What I wanted was for Snyder's vision to be left tf alone.
This is it, right here.
The DCEU had a specific tone and continuity that has been diluted due to appeasement. I say Jenkins is a retrograde elitist and I would rather she be kicked to the curb, as hard as possible. Whedon style films go against my sensibilities, and I choose to ignore WW84. It's been slammed into a timeline where it doesn't fit. The studio ultimately decides about projects, but I know where I stand.
If you change horses midstream, just abandon the series completely. If you hire Zack Snyder you get a Zack Snyder film. The studio kept him on for JL and then got cold feet. He kept his end of the bargain, and they didn't. That's on them. The enthusiasm for ZSJL speaks for itself, and in that regard the fans have decided.
In respect to global protection, Superman is more important to normal humans and I fail to see why somebody would even pose the question. He has a much longer lifespan and can do what others cannot. Deciding to sacrifice that is a big deal as it greatly reduces the tenure of his heroic acts on Earth. A policeman isn't going to be able to push back an invading alien force.
Wonder Woman becomes the next in line to replace Superman in a world protector sense given her power levels. Superman's death solidifies her commitment to re-emerge.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Wed, 13 Jan 2021, 14:23Because Snyder was originally the creative pointman for the DCEU. Johns went out of his way to torpedo Snyder's vision and story because of course he did. The DCEU got dismantled for no obvious reason. I don't care about other filmmakers having their own vision. What I wanted was for Snyder's vision to be left tf alone.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Thu, 14 Jan 2021, 02:01This is it, right here.
The DCEU had a specific tone and continuity that has been diluted due to appeasement. I say Jenkins is a retrograde elitist and I would rather she be kicked to the curb, as hard as possible. Whedon style films go against my sensibilities, and I choose to ignore WW84. It's been slammed into a timeline where it doesn't fit. The studio ultimately decides about projects, but I know where I stand.
That's not how creativity works. Snyder, all by himself, doesn't have ownership over these characters or these stories. He isn't owed, all by himself, adhering to his vision anymore than Nolan or Burton are, and they aren't owed that. Each has their own desires, their own perceptions, their own goals. If Snyder gets to do what he wants, why should no one else? I think that's a double standard. What you want, all by itself, isn't owed to you.
QuoteIf you change horses midstream, just abandon the series completely. If you hire Zack Snyder you get a Zack Snyder film. The studio kept him on for JL and then got cold feet. He kept his end of the bargain, and they didn't. That's on them. The enthusiasm for ZSJL speaks for itself, and in that regard the fans have decided.
And if the studio doesn't feel like he's delivered on what they want, they have no obligation to him, on his own, to continue with his vision. He's not special.
QuoteIn respect to global protection, Superman is more important to normal humans and I fail to see why somebody would even pose the question. He has a much longer lifespan and can do what others cannot. Deciding to sacrifice that is a big deal as it greatly reduces the tenure of his heroic acts on Earth. A policeman isn't going to be able to push back an invading alien force.
Wonder Woman becomes the next in line to replace Superman in a world protector sense given her power levels. Superman's death solidifies her commitment to re-emerge.
I don't think Superman as a global protector is shown to be cared about by the people or in regards to his lifespan. And that doesn't equal people suddenly caring about him, like he's more important. He's not. Doing the right thing is doing the right thing, no matter how big in scale it is. To me, I think that's more like people look at Superman like a weapon.
Quote from: Dagenspear on Tue, 19 Jan 2021, 16:09That's not how creativity works.
[
Citation needed]
Quote from: Dagenspear on Tue, 19 Jan 2021, 16:09Snyder, all by himself, doesn't have ownership over these characters or these stories.
Nobody said otherwise.
Quote from: Dagenspear on Tue, 19 Jan 2021, 16:09If Snyder gets to do what he wants, why should no one else?
Because his MOS founded the DCEU. Allowing others the creative freedom to introduce unnecessary continuity problems and inconsistencies in the larger creative tapestry is a bad idea. In the case of Suicide Squad, Johns introduced unnecessary continuity problems within the movie's own context and continuity.
Quote from: Dagenspear on Tue, 19 Jan 2021, 16:09I think that's a double standard.
Oh, I know, I know, if they're not exactly the same then they must be total opposites, right?
Quote from: Dagenspear on Tue, 19 Jan 2021, 16:09What you want, all by itself, isn't owed to you.
You know that expression "The customer is always right"? Do you know what it means?
It does not mean that a customer has the right to behave like a jerk, making unrealistic demands, etc. What it means is the customer wants something. And whatever it is that he wants, he's right to want it. If I want a cheeseburger, I'm right to want a cheeseburger. Or if I want to buy a blue car, I'm right to want a blue car.
And I want Snyder's story.
Quote from: Dagenspear on Tue, 19 Jan 2021, 16:09And if the studio doesn't feel like he's delivered on what they want, they have no obligation to him, on his own, to continue with his vision. He's not special.
In Snyder's case, peripheral players in DC Entertainment torpedoed his plan, aided and abetted by an ally on the WB side. It's like anything, politics is politics.
Quote from: Dagenspear on Tue, 19 Jan 2021, 16:09I don't think Superman as a global protector is shown to be cared about by the people or in regards to his lifespan. And that doesn't equal people suddenly caring about him, like he's more important. He's not. Doing the right thing is doing the right thing, no matter how big in scale it is. To me, I think that's more like people look at Superman like a weapon.
I have no idea what you're trying to say.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 19 Jan 2021, 22:15
Because his MOS founded the DCEU. Allowing others the creative freedom to introduce unnecessary continuity problems and inconsistencies in the larger creative tapestry is a bad idea. In the case of Suicide Squad, Johns introduced unnecessary continuity problems within the movie's own context and continuity.
It's that simple and every single comment to the contrary ignores this main point. Other people directing films in the DCEU was to be expected in the long term. But continuity needs to be maintained, otherwise why establish it at all? Snyder's MOS and BvS are the bedrock of the DCEU, and he does have ownership over
those portrayals. Any evolutions need to feel organic from that starting point. Otherwise just scrap it and start fresh.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 19 Jan 2021, 22:15Nobody said otherwise.
I don't see what the issue, if it's not what's being said.
QuoteBecause his MOS founded the DCEU. Allowing others the creative freedom to introduce unnecessary continuity problems and inconsistencies in the larger creative tapestry is a bad idea. In the case of Suicide Squad, Johns introduced unnecessary continuity problems within the movie's own context and continuity.
Who decides it's bad? If the studio, in control, doesn't care, what does it matter? I don't deny you the right to express your criticisms on what they do. But factually, this isn't important. If the studio wants to do what they want to do, whether by money or acclaim or art, why should they adhere to what Snyder wants?
QuoteOh, I know, I know, if they're not exactly the same then they must be total opposites, right?
I don't remember what this part was talking about, but if they're not the same, they're not the same.
QuoteYou know that expression "The customer is always right"? Do you know what it means?
It does not mean that a customer has the right to behave like a jerk, making unrealistic demands, etc. What it means is the customer wants something. And whatever it is that he wants, he's right to want it. If I want a cheeseburger, I'm right to want a cheeseburger. Or if I want to buy a blue car, I'm right to want a blue car.
And I want Snyder's story.
Who decides which customer is always right, at what time, for what reason? Which customer should be listened to? Theoretically, WB listened to some customers, and that led them to Whedon's Justice League. Were they always right? If they're not, why is anyone else?
QuoteIn Snyder's case, peripheral players in DC Entertainment torpedoed his plan, aided and abetted by an ally on the WB side. It's like anything, politics is politics.
I don't think this negates what I said. His plan isn't owed anything. It and he aren't special.
QuoteI have no idea what you're trying to say.
That I don't think that showcases a caring about Superman, so I don't think it really matters as a concept, if I remember correctly.
Here is a nice video tribute to Gadot's Wonder Woman in WW2017, BvS and ZSJL.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5nQNuZvjKw
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Fri, 1 May 2020, 16:49
Speaking of GL and JL, did you know that it's heavily implied that he was going to make a surprise appearance in the Snyder cut? FFS.
https://thefanboyseo.com/2019/11/29/we-almost-had-a-green-lantern-in-zack-snyders-justice-league/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGUUMIGuxGU
Okay, well, that turned out to be a load of bullsh*t. Wayne T. Carr is Green Lantern.
I'm going back on-topic now, to mention Gal Gadot tweeted this the other day:
Quote from: Gal Gadot
So much drama...! 🔥😎
#WW BTS
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FL_GZQ-XIAAMAxK?format=jpg&name=large)
https://twitter.com/GalGadot/status/1495131744420380678
The shot in the background appears to be from this scene in the final theatrical cut.
(https://i.imgur.com/kgw8PHj.jpg)
This is when Diana unleashed her anger out on all of the German solders, after she witnessed Steve Trevor's death.
Here is the key difference: the shot in the final theatrical cut has the soldiers sent flying and falling, as they're struck down by Diana's wrath. The shot in Gadot's tweet shows Diana doing the same gesture, except it shows flames in the background with no soldier in sight. This is either nothing more than a double take with unfinished effects, or maybe, this is from the original unreleased third act. From what I read online, Steve didn't sacrifice himself in the original ending like he did in the final cut - his plane was supposed to be shot down by the Germans, and Diana killed them all in retaliation. I don't know if that's true or not, but I do know Patty Jenkins made it clear the original third act was changed because of a studio mandate.
Gal Gadot could've tweeted this as an innocuous post and nothing more, for all I know. But I do find it strange she tweeted this freeze frame that was changed in the final cut. If this picture was taken when the movie was getting made, actors like Gadot would've used the the term "throwback" as a hashtag. Whatever the reason is, I find the differences between these two shots fascinating.
Last December, WB Games announced plans to develop a Wonder Woman video game with this little trailer.
https://youtu.be/dyA8lnp9Tzg
Nothing else has been confirmed since, but if this game is to become a success, it needs to replicate the warrior tone that was established in WW2017, BvS and ZSJL and the Injustice games. Imagine the combat system mechanics resembling the action from the No Man's Land scene. Huge potential there.
Patty Jenkins can object to the idea of Diana becoming "aggressive" all she wants, but if done right, this Wonder Woman game could become the new Batman: Arkham. One thing is for certain, a Wonder Woman game taking place with goofy action like in the mall scene in WW84 won't impress gamers.
Yeah, I don't even know how a "Silver Age/Bronze Age" inspired WW game would turn out, unless you're going with Lego Wonder Woman or something, but the trailer doesn't really indicate that, so I would assume the game would center more upon the more modern warrior Wondy that came about during the "Copper Age" and was brought to life in the 2017 film. I guess you can already say there's already a precedent for this approach being successful in the video game world, with the Injustice games, though WW was portrayed as more of an antagonist with the game story line. Sure.
Wonder Woman 3 has been canceled.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-features/wonder-woman-3-not-moving-forward-dc-movies-1235276804/
QuoteSources say that Jenkins recently submitted her treatment, co-written with Geoff Johns, and that Gunn and Safran, as well as Warner Bros. Pictures co-chairs and co-CEOs Michael De Luca and Pamela Abdy, broke the news to the filmmaker, telling her the project — as it stood — did not fit in with the new (but still unfolding) plans. Jenkins directed and co-wrote the previous two movies, starring Gal Gadot and released in 2017 and 2020. No decision has been made about next steps.
Interested to know if this Patty Jenkins treatment, that was submitted and rejected, emphasized the DC Trinity team up of Wonder Woman, Superman, and Batman (that was rumored to play into the title, and story line as well)), or if it was simply another "Silver Age" influenced followup from Jenkins and Geoff Johns?
Oh boy! The plot just keeps thickening. Okay you ready? Here goes:
Apparently WW3 was NOT scraped! It was said that Jenkins was told that she had to rewrite it so that it 'fit with the new vision.' She outright refused to play ball, pitched a HUGE fit, and instead of beginning a rewrite of the script she packed up her office and walked. The third Wonder Woman might happen if they decide to find a new director...or who knows, this might mean that this version of WW gets tossed out entirely because to hell with it!
More on that:
Apparently, Jenkins was expected to submit an entire screenplay, instead she submitted a half-assed treatment on a few slips of paper and was trying to pitch, which left Gunn and the rest of WB executives dumb struck. WW3 was and is being considered, it's just that Jenkins had done no work at all on the project!
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Thu, 8 Dec 2022, 23:15
More on that:
Apparently, Jenkins was expected to submit an entire screenplay, instead she submitted a half-assed treatment on a few slips of paper and was trying to pitch, which left Gunn and the rest of WB executives dumb struck. WW3 was and is being considered, it's just that Jenkins had done no work at all on the project!
Something here isn't adding up.
Typically, a writer will craft a general outline of the story and pitch the executives on it. They either approve or they don't.
If they do, the writer will usually (not always but usually) bang out a treatment. The length of it can vary. But it usually includes a more detailed story synopsis, descriptions of the primary characters, MAYBE fragments of dialogue, the basic theme(s) of the story, etc. Either it gets approved or it doesn't.
If it does, THEN the writer will begin drafting a full script.
So, like I say, something seems out of place. If Jenkins had gone through the above steps, why
wouldn't she have a script ready to go? Otoh, if the above steps hadn't been followed, it's one hell of a big ask for the executives to expect a writer to invest the amount of time needed to complete a script when there's no real forward momentum going on with the project.
In other words, either Gunn is an unprofessional a-hole for expecting her to do the full script when the above steps haven't been followed or else Jenkins is an unprofessional a-hole for following the above steps but not delivering a full script. And I never got the impression that either of them is an unprofessional a-hole.
It could be that I'm missing something here or that there's a part of the story that we haven't heard yet. But IF this is all true, then it all sounds kind of strange to me.
Guess we'll see tho.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Fri, 9 Dec 2022, 18:54
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Thu, 8 Dec 2022, 23:15
More on that:
Apparently, Jenkins was expected to submit an entire screenplay, instead she submitted a half-assed treatment on a few slips of paper and was trying to pitch, which left Gunn and the rest of WB executives dumb struck. WW3 was and is being considered, it's just that Jenkins had done no work at all on the project!
Something here isn't adding up.
Typically, a writer will craft a general outline of the story and pitch the executives on it. They either approve or they don't.
If they do, the writer will usually (not always but usually) bang out a treatment. The length of it can vary. But it usually includes a more detailed story synopsis, descriptions of the primary characters, MAYBE fragments of dialogue, the basic theme(s) of the story, etc. Either it gets approved or it doesn't.
If it does, THEN the writer will begin drafting a full script.
So, like I say, something seems out of place. If Jenkins had gone through the above steps, why wouldn't she have a script ready to go? Otoh, if the above steps hadn't been followed, it's one hell of a big ask for the executives to expect a writer to invest the amount of time needed to complete a script when there's no real forward momentum going on with the project.
In other words, either Gunn is an unprofessional a-hole for expecting her to do the full script when the above steps haven't been followed or else Jenkins is an unprofessional a-hole for following the above steps but not delivering a full script. And I never got the impression that either of them is an unprofessional a-hole.
It could be that I'm missing something here or that there's a part of the story that we haven't heard yet. But IF this is all true, then it all sounds kind of strange to me.
Guess we'll see tho.
To be fair there are a lot of 'reactionary' takes being had. This might be one of them. Looking at this now, yes I think one might be inclined to include some serious salt gain seasonings.
Thinking aloud here, but I'm possibly leaning on Gunn's side on this. Wonder Woman 1984 was not well received. Gunn's job is to turn mediocrity around and craft a culture of excellence. If Jenkins did not put in the work and her ideas were not up to scratch, the early development process is absolutely vital. Because look at what happens once a film gets off the ground. The tinkering starts due to indecision and attempts to resolve poor decisions that should have been fixed early on. I don't like Jenkins based on what I've heard, so if she doesn't want to play ball I'm glad she's gone. Snyder's approach to Wonder Woman was vastly superior to hers. I suspect this is line in the sand statement to everyone across the board - get serious, because there are higher expectations. Being Patty Jenkins doesn't make you automatically immune to feedback.
Quote from: Gotham Knight on Fri, 9 Dec 2022, 21:40
To be fair there are a lot of 'reactionary' takes being had. This might be one of them. Looking at this now, yes I think one might be inclined to include some serious salt gain seasonings.
Solid take on where things stand right now I'd say.
Speaking as someone who's really not-at-all convinced Gunn's going to submit a 10 year plan for a complete reboot (which is absolutely adorable considering this is frigging WARNER BROS we're talking about!), the Wonder Woman 3 thing is coming across more like just a simple case of whatever Patty and Geoff Johns were going to run with with the old regime, is
clearly clashing with what the
current direction/plans are now. I can believe Patty Jenkins wanted to continue in her very own sandbox when it comes to Wonder Woman, since that's what
was essentially encouraged under the Walter Hamada's DCEU regime (multiversial/confined films that don't necessarily have to connect to one another). It's just, as the saying goes, "Things Change", and supposedly Zaslav is much more of a fan of a MCU-like connected universe (for better or worse), than producing a slate of DC films that have little to no connectivity to one another.
Quote from: The Joker on Sat, 10 Dec 2022, 02:51Speaking as someone who's really not-at-all convinced Gunn's going to submit a 10 year plan for a complete reboot (which is absolutely adorable considering this is frigging WARNER BROS we're talking about!)
My thoughts exactly. When has Warner Bros ever stuck to a long-term plan when it comes to their DC properties? We see this happen every few years. One of their projects is successful, so they issue a statement saying, "Oh, we get it now – we know what we're doing" and then proceed to announce about fifty different films and TV shows, most of which never see the light of day. As soon as one of their projects underperforms, they start altering 'the plan' and end up right back where they started.
They'll let Gunn and Safran call the shots for the next few years, but I doubt their decade-long plan will see fruition. More likely one of two things will happen:
1) If Gunn and Safran's plans don't yield an immediate and consistent increase in box office returns, the studio will get cold feet and pass the reins to someone else. They might allow the new leadership a few flops, but they won't tolerate more than three or four before they shake things up. Considering the signs currently point to widespread superhero fatigue finally setting in (even Marvel is rumoured to be reducing its upcoming release schedule to focus on quality over quantity and avoid repeating the oversaturation that occurred during Phase 4), the studio needs to be realistic about its expectations. If they think Gunn and Safran are going to deliver a series of $1 billion+ hits, they've got another thing coming.
2) Instead of getting fired, Gunn and Safran quit. The studio execs start interfering, as they inevitably do, and Gunn and Safran decide they've had enough. The most likely scenario leading to this outcome would be if Gunn tries to steer the DCU along a more comedic route, but then The Batman II or Joker II end up being far more successful than any of the DCU movies. The studio then issues one of its "Oh, now we get it" statements and decides to shift gear to make everything dark and serious, which conflicts with Gunn's vision and motivates him to quit.
I think option 1 is more likely. Either way, I doubt Gunn or his plan will last more than five or six years tops.
If we fail to plan we plan to fail, and I do like Batman operating in a Justice League format. However my issue with an interconnected film universe is that it reduces movies to anticipating who will cameo and what the post credit scene will be, rather than enjoying the here and now. This factory mindset has without question cheapened the mystique of film. You can't get a bigger factory mindset than the phrase ten year plan.
The type of man I would trust to oversee my brand is Tom Cruise - someone who has years of experience, knows what he wants and takes his time to achieve his vision on his terms. In the space of 11 years Cruise put out three Mission Impossible films, and that's considered a franchise. The movies are first rate and the time between drinks kept the audience thirsty for more. There's still a sense of anticipation when one comes out, and the expectation is that it's going to be good. That's very much not the case with WB/DC.
The fact of the matter is that there's nothing special about comic book movies anymore. They're dime a dozen, and kids today wouldn't understand the cultural phenomenon they really used to be. Having more of something makes it less valuable. Waiting was part of the experience.
Companies hire people to work for them, but they should have some inherent idea of what they want themselves. By hiring Gunn, the studio are admitting they really don't know what they're doing and never did. They need to be told, and will probably do as they're told. For now, as Snyder found out after BvS. For better or worse, we're going to see what Gunn pitched, and if it excites the fanbase in any way.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Tue, 13 Dec 2022, 11:33
If we fail to plan we plan to fail, and I do like Batman operating in a Justice League format. However my issue with an interconnected film universe is that it reduces movies to anticipating who will cameo and what the post credit scene will be, rather than enjoying the here and now. This factory mindset has without question cheapened the mystique of film. You can't get a bigger factory mindset than the phrase ten year plan.
The type of man I would trust to oversee my brand is Tom Cruise - someone who has years of experience, knows what he wants and takes his time to achieve his vision on his terms. In the space of 11 years Cruise put out three Mission Impossible films, and that's considered a franchise. The movies are first rate and the time between drinks kept the audience thirsty for more. There's still a sense of anticipation when one comes out, and the expectation is that it's going to be good. That's very much not the case with WB/DC.
The fact of the matter is that there's nothing special about comic book movies anymore. They're dime a dozen, and kids today wouldn't understand the cultural phenomenon they really used to be. Having more of something makes it less valuable. Waiting was part of the experience.
Companies hire people to work for them, but they should have some inherent idea of what they want themselves. By hiring Gunn, the studio are admitting they really don't know what they're doing and never did. They need to be told, and will probably do as they're told. For now, as Snyder found out after BvS. For better or worse, we're going to see what Gunn pitched, and if it excites the fanbase in any way.
The example I always point back to is Star Wars. Say whatever you want about the quality of the prequels, but Lucas worked a 9-5 schedule when completing those movies. His limited workday is what necessitated a three year gap between installments.
As Disney has proven (for better or for worse), it is possible to finish a Star Wars film in just two years.
But I think Lucas handled things perfectly. During the lag time between prequel films, the licensing department was in charge. They released prequel-era novels, comic books, video games, action figures, urinal cakes, you name it. Those things kept the Star Wars core audience engaged. Meanwhile the wide audience had three whole years to get over being sick of hearing about Star Wars.
When a new movie came out, both audiences were READY to see what was coming.
All of that is a long way of setting the table. Does anybody still feel that way about Star Wars anymore? Maybe. But I doubt it.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Tue, 13 Dec 2022, 11:33
Companies hire people to work for them, but they should have some inherent idea of what they want themselves. By hiring Gunn, the studio are admitting they really don't know what they're doing and never did. They need to be told, and will probably do as they're told. For now, as Snyder found out after BvS. For better or worse, we're going to see what Gunn pitched, and if it excites the fanbase in any way.
See, that's where I'm still incredibly confused how the whole Gunn and Safran thing came about. You claim you want to see their pitch, but at the same time, they keep telling everyone that nobody knows their plan(even WB), and that they're still working on it. Why did WB hire these guys, without any knowledge of what they're planning on doing? You wanna see their pitch, but pitches are basically an outline of a plan, but they claim they have no outline, and that they're working on their overall plan/outline for the next 10 years. That's why I'm still in a "wait and see" approach, because I'm still confused how this all came about, when they themselves claim that they're essentially winging it right now, and that nobody knows anything about anything.
That doesn't give me confidence. I would have way more confidence if I knew WB were scouting out different people who came up with the best outline and solution for a cohesive universe for DC. But again, Gunn and Safran have outright told us that they have no plan right now. Why is anyone excited about this? Again, I don't have confidence right now. WB literally just went:
WB: "Oh hey, Gunn and Safran. You want to control the DC universe? Convince me. What's your plan?"
Gunn and Safran: "we have no plan....but we'll make one, I guess?".
WB: "Brilliant! Here's the keys to DC cinematic universe"
I mean, this sounds worse than Snyder being forced to make his movies into a cinematic universe. I dunno?....
Long story short, ME believes this was a hit on Zaslav using Gunn as a proxy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeD5ax86Pek
Patty Jenkins has written a statement denying the gossip surrounding her departure from Wonder Woman 3.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fj5f7c4VUAAS_kI?format=jpg&name=large)
https://twitter.com/PattyJenks/status/1602824242684252161
James Gunn replied to her tweet with this very weird comment:
Quote from: James Gunn
I can attest that all of Peter [Safran] and my interactions with you were only pleasant and professional.
https://twitter.com/JamesGunn/status/1602843372846080000
Jenkins merely stated her side of the story without attacking the studio or anyone personally. Aside from tacitly confirming he doesn't want to work with Jenkins, I see no need for Gunn to make this comment. For whatever reason, he seemed very defensive.
Quote from: Travesty on Tue, 13 Dec 2022, 16:44
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Tue, 13 Dec 2022, 11:33
Companies hire people to work for them, but they should have some inherent idea of what they want themselves. By hiring Gunn, the studio are admitting they really don't know what they're doing and never did. They need to be told, and will probably do as they're told. For now, as Snyder found out after BvS. For better or worse, we're going to see what Gunn pitched, and if it excites the fanbase in any way.
See, that's where I'm still incredibly confused how the whole Gunn and Safran thing came about. You claim you want to see their pitch, but at the same time, they keep telling everyone that nobody knows their plan(even WB), and that they're still working on it. Why did WB hire these guys, without any knowledge of what they're planning on doing? You wanna see their pitch, but pitches are basically an outline of a plan, but they claim they have no outline, and that they're working on their overall plan/outline for the next 10 years. That's why I'm still in a "wait and see" approach, because I'm still confused how this all came about, when they themselves claim that they're essentially winging it right now, and that nobody knows anything about anything.
That doesn't give me confidence. I would have way more confidence if I knew WB were scouting out different people who came up with the best outline and solution for a cohesive universe for DC. But again, Gunn and Safran have outright told us that they have no plan right now. Why is anyone excited about this? Again, I don't have confidence right now. WB literally just went:
WB: "Oh hey, Gunn and Safran. You want to control the DC universe? Convince me. What's your plan?"
Gunn and Safran: "we have no plan....but we'll make one, I guess?".
WB: "Brilliant! Here's the keys to DC cinematic universe"
I mean, this sounds worse than Snyder being forced to make his movies into a cinematic universe. I dunno?....
It's a delicate situation as we now know what was being cooked up before Gunn was hired. A Man of Steel sequel and something with Keaton and Pfeiffer. We may have dodged bullets as to their quality, but we don't know that. Unless Gunn and Co deliver comparable projects in terms of fan excitement, I can't see how their hiring is an upgrade. The heat is on them to make the past seem incomparable to the future. And as you say, they're making it up as they go. If it goes badly I'm not putting all responsibility on to them, but rather the studio. We wouldn't even have Gunn in the role if it wasn't for their decision. I'm very much in wait and see mode.
Following the despicable ousting of Henry Cavill, it's now reported that all the JL actors are getting recast. That degenerate James Gunn has tweeted the Superman reboot will feature a young Clark Kent who has already met the other members of the Justice League. My guess is they're going to make all the other team members close to his age.
Gal Gadot did express her eagerness to return as Wonder Woman, but that was a day before it was announced Patty Jenkins' WW3 wasn't going forward. It's likely that Gal didn't know the project got scrapped and wasn't consulted about the shenanigans going on behind the scenes.
If Gal does return then that means the DCU reboot is a farce, because it would mean they're picking and choosing who they want and discarding the rest. Knowing what a weasel James Gunn is, I expect that will happen when he keeps his Peacemaker/TSS actors going forward.
But realistically, I believe Gal's time is finished, sadly. Right or wrong, she was very loyal to Jenkins, and I can't see her putting up with Gunn's stupidity even if he wanted her to continue.
When that gets announced, the angry backlash will be just as intense as the Cavill news. I shudder to think what a WW reboot will look like in the future.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sun, 18 Dec 2022, 07:46I shudder to think what a WW reboot will look like in the future.
Just saying...
(https://mlpnk72yciwc.i.optimole.com/cqhiHLc.IIZS~2ef73/w:auto/h:auto/q:75/https://bleedingcool.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Ee17uBUUMAAvt1R-1.jpg)
Yes, this was a real variant cover.
lol
I think Trav, colors and myself are okay with the idea of rebooting. We expressed as much not too long ago. If they get a nice piece of ace as WW they're on the right track. But if they go with an obese purple lesbian from Tonga wearing torn jeans, who identifies as a zucchini, we're going to have problems.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Sun, 18 Dec 2022, 08:21
(https://mlpnk72yciwc.i.optimole.com/cqhiHLc.IIZS~2ef73/w:auto/h:auto/q:75/https://bleedingcool.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Ee17uBUUMAAvt1R-1.jpg)
I remember seeing this a couple of years ago, and getting a chuckle out of it.
But to slightly paraphrase the immortal words of Tommy Lee Jones:
"I cannot sanction their buffoonery."
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Mon, 19 Dec 2022, 03:05
I think Trav, colors and myself are okay with the idea of rebooting.
Yeah, I'm fine with the idea of it. I'm just hoping it turns out good. That's all you can do.
It's just too early to be that upset. Sure, the Cavill news sucks, but we saw the writing on the wall years ago. This was inevitable. At least we got the Snyder Cut, so you can't be that upset. It is what it is.
Quote from: Travesty on Mon, 19 Dec 2022, 21:32
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Mon, 19 Dec 2022, 03:05
I think Trav, colors and myself are okay with the idea of rebooting.
Yeah, I'm fine with the idea of it. I'm just hoping it turns out good. That's all you can do.
It's just too early to be that upset. Sure, the Cavill news sucks, but we saw the writing on the wall years ago. This was inevitable. At least we got the Snyder Cut, so you can't be that upset. It is what it is.
I agree. It's the fact fans were outright told Cavill was back which makes the change of course jarring. But indeed, for the longest time we saw the issues the DCEU had and saw the benefit of starting over. I liked Gal in the role but if it's a proper reboot everything must go. Gunn is meant to be outlining the initial stages in a couple of weeks, so I'll see what that entails.
There are ways of casting this role right.
(https://i.imgur.com/teJiLgz.jpg)
I'd be the very last person to defend Adrianne Palicki on ALMOST anything. Because if you've spent any time in Austin at all, you're probably familiar with the gossip factor and you've heard many a story about Palicki. Put it this way, hypothetically if Johnny Depp ever somehow ended up married to Palicki, you'd have to wonder what he ever had against Amber Heard. Because Palicki makes Heard look like a choirgirl.
But I'll defend the decision to cast her as Wonder Woman on a superficial basis. I mean, say whatever you want about Palicki's personal stability (or her apparent inability to avoid bar fights) (with men), she was pretty smokin' hot when this picture was taken. And while that particular Wonder Woman uniform might not be the best choice for the character, (1) it's still recognizably Wonder Woman (2) it doesn't take much imagination to see how things could've been a lot worse and (3) Palicki LOOKS the part and those heels put her well over six feet tall.
The concern that I think many of us have is that the eventual Wonder Woman actress will, to be politic about it, not resemble Palicki AT ALL.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 20 Dec 2022, 04:07
There are ways of casting this role right.
(https://i.imgur.com/teJiLgz.jpg)
I'd be the very last person to defend Adrianne Palicki on ALMOST anything. Because if you've spent any time in Austin at all, you're probably familiar with the gossip factor and you've heard many a story about Palicki. Put it this way, hypothetically if Johnny Depp ever somehow ended up married to Palicki, you'd have to wonder what he ever had against Amber Heard. Because Palicki makes Heard look like a choirgirl.
But I'll defend the decision to cast her as Wonder Woman on a superficial basis. I mean, say whatever you want about Palicki's personal stability (or her apparent inability to avoid bar fights) (with men), she was pretty smokin' hot when this picture was taken. And while that particular Wonder Woman uniform might not be the best choice for the character, (1) it's still recognizably Wonder Woman (2) it doesn't take much imagination to see how things could've been a lot worse and (3) Palicki LOOKS the part and those heels put her well over six feet tall.
The concern that I think many of us have is that the eventual Wonder Woman actress will, to be politic about it, not resemble Palicki AT ALL.
The bare minimum we should expect is for the characters to actually look like the characters. But that's no longer guaranteed. The fact of the matter is that Wonder Woman is an attractive white female and she should be portrayed by someone with those attributes. Period. Superficiality matters in visual media and it can't be dismissed just as shallow thoughts from sexist pigs. That's how she drawn, and if it's good enough for the comics it should be good enough for the films. If the spirit of the page can't be translated in any adaption my level of immersion is automatically reduced.
As for Gunn, do I like him? I can't say I do. I believe those tweets are indeed who he is deep down. But thinking strictly about business matters I can't fault his logic in doing a reboot. If I'm given the job of creating a blueprint I'm starting again as well rather than adding to a patchwork. That way it's truly your vision. It looks like you're doing damage when the system that has been established is in the process of being torn down. But the timeline since Whedon's cut has not been ideal and a lot of damage was already been done before we got to this point.
The only thing giving reluctance to a full reboot was removing the Snyder trinity. However their presence after Whedon's cut was greatly reduced to the point we had basically already lost them. They were spoken about but never properly seen. In the reboot I'd like a greater focus on the League members working together and a lot more often. Again, played by actors that resemble their comic counterparts.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue, 20 Dec 2022, 04:07
The concern that I think many of us have is that the eventual Wonder Woman actress will, to be politic about it, not resemble Palicki AT ALL.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ff5yuUlWQAEs_7H?format=jpg&name=small)
Quote from: Travesty on Mon, 19 Dec 2022, 21:32
Yeah, I'm fine with the idea of it. I'm just hoping it turns out good. That's all you can do.
If we're getting more garbage like this from that creep James Gunn, don't get your hopes up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxEzMGlesvo&themeRefresh=1
Quote from: Travesty on Mon, 19 Dec 2022, 21:32
It's just too early to be that upset. Sure, the Cavill news sucks, but we saw the writing on the wall years ago. This was inevitable. At least we got the Snyder Cut, so you can't be that upset. It is what it is.
If that were the case, then why the hell did WBD give Cavill assurance he had a future as Superman? This achieved nothing other than making him look like a fool, he quit the Witcher show for this.
Why spend so much money on reshoots for actors like Cavill and Affleck, only to just scrap everything again? That's money flushed down the toilet. And that's critical for a studio that's curently in huge debt.
Seriously, even if you put all bias aside - whether you're pro-Snyderverse or pro-reboot, this sh*t only hurts the DC brand. It only goes to show if WBD can't stick with a plan for one movie, then what hope is there for a ten-year plan? There's only so much loyalty and patience that fans can have until it reaches a breaking point.
I say this dispassionately, I've never seen a brand like DC mismanaged in my entire life.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Mon, 26 Dec 2022, 04:33I say this dispassionately, I've never seen a brand like DC mismanaged in my entire life.
Normally, I would've been content to let a post like this slide on by. But this part intrigues me.
You could argue that it's splitting hairs. But I would submit to you that Star Wars is the most mismanaged IP in recent memory. There was a good head of steam going into The Force Awakens, fans and general moviegoers were happy to have Star Wars back, there was an overriding sense of excitement to see what was coming and... thud. TFA was well received. But pretty much everything since then was a misfire, miscalculation, overcorrection, unnecessary overovercorrection, an intentional act of spite to the fans, more overcorrection, etc.
Star Wars was one of the strongest, most loyal, most dependable and most profitable brands/IP's in history. If I ever taught a brand management course, I would do an entire section on how Lucas flawlessly managed Star Wars from 1991 through 2012. The odd clunker idea aside ('The Courtship Of Princess Leia' novel, the Star Wars/Transformer crossover toy line, etc.), what Lucas was able to achieve with a mostly inactive movie franchise merits genuine study from academia, business students, etc. Nobody ever does it. But believe me when I say there's gold in them thar hills.
For example, Lucas sold the (mostly) exact same trilogy of movies to the (mostly) exact same public four times in seven years on VHS (1993, 1995, 1998, 2000). You can only get to that level with genuine business acumen.
And Disney shot ALL of that straight to hell. Star Wars has never recovered and I doubt it ever will.
Meanwhile, there have been successes with DC. Yes, there have. Some of the live action movies have been legit and for quite a while there (and somewhat now), the animated features are pretty solid as well. Mostly underrated. The most creatively and financially successful Marvel animated feature is undoubtedly Into The Spiderverse. Nobody questions that. But with animated DC features, you can have one hell of a big (and long) debate as to which animated feature is the best, most successful, most entertaining, etc. The answers will vary wildly from one respondent to the next.
DC on television is a whole other can of worms. But there are some quality shows to choose from there as well. I'm a Smallville fanboy from way back. But with not very much effort, you can find hardcore DC fans who will love to explain why Gotham is the greatest DC adaptation of all time. Such a claim, of course, will be answered (with vigor) by Arrowverse stans. And this isn't even touching DC animated TV shows, which ought to be a category unto itself in any fair and sane universe.
Such debate does not exist with Star Wars. The Disney era has very few ardent, sincere defenders.
All of this is to say, no, I disagree. For as bad DC media might be in the current year, it's pretty obvious that Star Wars is the biggest mess in the entire media world. Or if there's a bigger train wreck than Star Wars, then I guess I can't think of it off-hand.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon, 26 Dec 2022, 05:48
All of this is to say, no, I disagree. For as bad DC media might be in the current year, it's pretty obvious that Star Wars is the biggest mess in the entire media world. Or if there's a bigger train wreck than Star Wars, then I guess I can't think of it off-hand.
Let's not forget that it wasn't so long ago that George Lucas was blamed for "ruining" Star Wars by many people, some of them taking it too far by claiming he "raped our childhood". Those dickheads played a huge part in his decision to sell the rights to Disney. The prequels might be looked at fondly today, but that was not always the case.
No matter how badly Disney f***ed it up with the sequels, they still have a fanbase for stuff like The Mandalorian, Andor, and even Obi-Wan Kenobi. They may not necessarily be my thing (actually, I like Andor for what it is), but depending on who you ask, they are the saving grace for Disney's franchise. The same goes for video games like Jedi Fallen Order and a lot of animated shows. Dismiss that sentiment all you want, but it exists.
Show me Star Wars having the equivalent of a Josstice L/ZSJL situation, or even the way Warners handled the Batgirl cancellation situation.
Show me the Star Wars equivalent of being associated with a Whedon-type PR disaster.
Show me the equivalent of the latest Cavill fiasco. Can you imagine Star Wars actors announcing their return, only to be dumped like naive buffoons?
Show me the equivalent of rebooting a universe while the last remaining films are still on their way.
Or how about the repetitive history of Warners hitting the panic button in the worst possible way, as soon as expectations don't go their way?
In the context of a shared universe, DC IS a massive train wreck. No amount of successful out-of-continuity films, TV shows or animated series makes up for the fact DC's ambition to be this single franchise like the MCU is a shambles. And it definitely won't improve under Gunn.
Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon, 26 Dec 2022, 05:48
You could argue that it's splitting hairs. But I would submit to you that Star Wars is the most mismanaged IP in recent memory. There was a good head of steam going into The Force Awakens, fans and general moviegoers were happy to have Star Wars back, there was an overriding sense of excitement to see what was coming and... thud. TFA was well received. But pretty much everything since then was a misfire, miscalculation, overcorrection, unnecessary overovercorrection, an intentional act of spite to the fans, more overcorrection, etc.
Oh, I agree, and something I've been saying since the Disney acquisition. I constantly showed my hesitation on the property. One of the biggest flubs was the fact that they were making everything canonical, something even the MCU wasn't doing. The second they said that, I had strong doubts. And I always used Snyder as a comparison. People hate on Snyder, and he has a very vocal and strong base of detractors(way more than the pro "Snyderbro" side). I always said: you can hate Snyder all you want, but when his movies are done, they're done. They'll reboot, and we'll get new versions of these characters. Nothing he did affected the comics, videogames, animation, past movies, etc. You can't say the same about Star Wars. You have someone like Rian Johnsons come in, and when he starts messing with his movies, he single handedly screwed up the ENTIRE canon of SW forever. That includes the original trilogy, all of the books, comics, vidoegmaes, etc. That ripple is felt across all mediums FOREVER, unless they decide to reboot the franchise.....which I don't see them doing anytime soon. All that work leading up to that is tarnished, all because of one terrible movie, because the director wanted to subvert expectations.
Sure, you can hate on some aspects of DC, and I think there's merit to some claims, but things can change for the better. None of this is canonical, so these characters can adapt and change over time. BUT, I will say, I didn't like hearing Gunn claim that this new reboot will be integrating the movies with the videogames, animation, etc. That is heading towards SW territory of blunders, but we'll have to see how this shakes up. Nothing is set in stone yet, but again, it isn't nearly as bad as what Disney did with SW.
You and colors are right. I don't even know how much the general public even knows, or indeed cares about Cavill being dropped as Superman and going for a reboot. Their emotional investment isn't the same as ours, and with the DCEU it probably wasn't really there to begin with. Star Wars was more universal. It continues being milked but The Last Jedi really felt like a full stop conclusion to the story and how a lot of people feel about it. The magic and excitement is gone, and as you say, that's set in stone due to Disney's big tent continuity. Reboots are part and parcel of comics and comic based movies. It's what people are accustomed to, and as such the characters are more resilient and malleable. Superman and Batman stretch out across various timelines. If you didn't like something you wait a while. The same can't be said with Luke Skywalker and friends.
I can see both sides of the debate, with the underlining factor being that both IP's have been incredibly mismanaged. It's perfectly understandable that Star Wars comes across as, I guess, much more outstandingly egregious under the circumstances since that IP enjoyed a rather steady hand thanks to George Lucas for decades, and the sky was the limit following the good will prior, and even after, "The Force Awakens". Rather than having just even a decent strategy for the most anticipated sequel trilogy since, well, forever, the powers that be over at Disney decided to just wing it and give carte blanche to roundhead Johnson with "The Last Jedi", and the rest is unfortunate history.
Over with Warners and DCEU, the appalling mismanagement is readily apparent due to the DCEU never really getting it's footing right, and constantly being in a state of flux with Warner Bros continually being intrusive to a incredulous degree. Not only creative wise, but also interfering with the editing/tone/original intent of the films themselves. All thanks to that over reactionary mindset to pretty much anything MCU was doing. This frequent panic inclination on the part of Warners, of course, bleeds over into the public's perception of the DCEU IP. Where nothing really matters cause it can, and often does change, just five minutes later. Making the entire DCEU IP a total unpredictable crap shoot at the box office. Which, if it wasn't understood before (and I honestly don't know why it wouldn't have been), should have been easily discernible directly following James Gunn's name being ponderously used in advertising "The Suicide Squad" (along with having creative carte blanche on what he wanted to do thanks to his Guardians success and his association with Disney's MCU), and it literally didn't move the box office revenue dial, or confidence with the DCEU, whatsoever.
I found out WW2017 had shot an original post-credit scene that would've tied to ZSJL.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnBiax8X0AEcgiH?format=png)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnBigJQXwAQuU5t?format=jpg)
https://twitter.com/RTSnyderCut/status/1616901547442507779
The shot of the Mother Box in Themyscira - the same one we saw at the beginning of ZSJL - would've increased the hype for the team-up if it weren't for the internal sabotage going on.
Instead, this alternative scene got released, but never appeared in the final cut anyway. Just as well, the canon was already butchered enough once Josstice L came out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7pzKxGcwAE
So they're apparently keeping Gal Gadot as WW and making a WW3. lol
Look, I like Gal and all, but this "reboot" stuff is starting to look really messy. If we're getting a new Superman and Batman, why keep Gal around? This just makes no sense.
Quote"I love portraying Wonder Woman," Gadot said when asked about the third movie. "It's so close to and dear to my heart. From what I heard from James and from Peter is that we're gonna develop a 'Wonder Woman 3' together."
https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/gal-gadot-on-wonder-woman-3-what-i-heard-from-james-gunn-and-peter-safran-is-that-we-re-gonna-develop-it-together/ar-AA1eGJVn (https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/gal-gadot-on-wonder-woman-3-what-i-heard-from-james-gunn-and-peter-safran-is-that-we-re-gonna-develop-it-together/ar-AA1eGJVn)
On principle, I agree. It should be a clean reboot, but didn't Gunn make some sort of comment recently that he's going to be working on Peacemaker Season 2 after "Superman Legacy"?
Course I could be misremembering, but if not, this reboot being messy is simply on par for the course at this stage. Peacemaker continues on, Blue Beetle supposedly being the first "character", but not exactly the first "movie" in his universe (sure .. makes a lot of sense), and now Gal possibly returning.
Let's not make things complicated here!
And I'm pretty sure they're keeping Momoa as Aquaman. lol
"Let's keep what works!"
The mix and match approach failed two previous regimes. But Gunn and co. will somehow be able to figure it out?
I find it funny that DC on film is having the same problem as DC Comics (historically) has had. Namely, a refusal to do a universe-wide clean slate reboot. DC tried mixing and matching for decades. And they've got the failures to show for it too.
Reboot or don't reboot. I truly don't care. But don't mix and match. It doesn't work. It never works. No, you're not the one smart enough to figure it out. It won't work for you either.
It doesn't work.
Quote from: The Joker on Wed, 2 Aug 2023, 15:51On principle, I agree. It should be a clean reboot, but didn't Gunn make some sort of comment recently that he's going to be working on Peacemaker Season 2 after "Superman Legacy"?
Course I could be misremembering, but if not, this reboot being messy is simply on par for the course at this stage. Peacemaker continues on, Blue Beetle supposedly being the first "character", but not exactly the first "movie" in his universe (sure .. makes a lot of sense), and now Gal possibly returning.
Let's not make things complicated here!
Yes, creepy Gunn did go on record saying he planned to do another Peacemaker after Superman.
Nobody should be surprised by this, this attempt at a DC reboot was always going to be a farce with Gunn at the helm. He's not someone with integrity to do what's best for the brand. He announced a Viola Davis Amanda Waller spin-off FFS. Who asked for that?
So fans miss out on projects with Keaton, Cavill and Affleck, but let's make another Gadot Wonder Woman, even though 1984 is regarded as a failure. Not very fair, is it? Might as well keep Miller as the Flash then, because losing tons of money clearly isn't something taken seriously at that dumpster fire known as WBD.
Let's see if any of this sh*t gets made. I read that the labour strikes in Hollywood could last for another six months, and if they happens then WBD will bleed even more money than they already have. If the investors and shareholders don't wake up soon and stop Zaslav and Gunn's nonsense then they deserve to go under too.
Quote from: Travesty on Wed, 2 Aug 2023, 14:07Look, I like Gal and all, but this "reboot" stuff is starting to look really messy. If we're getting a new Superman and Batman, why keep Gal around? This just makes no sense.
Agreed. A selective reboot is an insult to Cavill and anyone else who appeared in the old DCEU and hasn't been allowed to continue on. If you're going to reboot go the whole hog. I liked the idea of going with someone like Ana De Armas if we absolutely had to create a new continuity. Having Blue Beetle as part of the new roster is also stupid to me. They should've just scrapped it along with Aquaman II and started completely clean. The route they're taking only serves to aggravate an already problematic situation.
Quote from: Travesty on Wed, 2 Aug 2023, 15:57And I'm pretty sure they're keeping Momoa as Aquaman. lol
lol IKR! At this stage, I wouldn't doubt Momoa staying on as Aquaman,
and playing Lobo as well. ;D
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Wed, 2 Aug 2023, 21:11Yes, creepy Gunn did go on record saying he planned to do another Peacemaker after Superman.
Ok. Right. Thanks for confirming, TLF. So essentially the Gunn mindset is "There's a new start to the DCU, but I'm not rebooting MY stuff, and the characters I like are going to be folded over into this new DCU!"
This is very reminiscent of how DC Comics has typically handled all their reboots, and it's always messy. Some more so than others, but none come out completely exempt from the disorganization of it all. One of the main reasons why I tend to be against reboots to begin with. On film, it can be done, but doing a reboot that encompasses an entire "universe" (rather than a singular IP) so soon after a previous version can (and probably will) cause issues with the audience acceptance due to the previous version being so fresh in peoples minds. As a consequence, comparisons will constantly be made (perhaps even more so since there wasn't a substantial length of time between the two), which may not be to the benefit of the current product.
The more I read about this hodgepodge that is Gunn's vision, I find myself more inclined into the notion that if Warners is going to continue on making DCEU/DCU (whatever it's called now? Gunnverse?) movies, they should have just really doubled down on the pre-Gunn plans. It's such a crap shoot anyways, and it's become increasingly apparent that Gunn's name/praise/endorsement of any DC property doesn't really amount to zilch at the box office.
Help me out, TLF, whom among Warners were momentarily planning out the DCEU just prior to Gunn? I assume this would have meant a MOS2 with Cavill and Calle, and apparently some sort of version of Batman Beyond (since supposedly Christina Hodson was in the middle of writing the script)?
Honestly, if a Wonder Woman 3 happens with Gal, I'll check it out. I like her in the part, and since I don't have a whole lot of faith in Gunn or his vision going forward, it could be regulated as a elseworlds and that's perfectly acceptable. WW2017 and WW1984 are fairly self contained films, so there's really no need to lean onto Gunn's precarious shared universe ideas to round out a Gadot Wonder Woman Trilogy. If that actually happens.
Quote from: The Joker on Sat, 5 Aug 2023, 20:20Help me out, TLF, whom among Warners were momentarily planning out the DCEU just prior to Gunn? I assume this would have meant a MOS2 with Cavill and Calle, and apparently some sort of version of Batman Beyond (since supposedly Christina Hodson was in the middle of writing the script)?
As it was stated numerous times on this forum, the other executives who appeared to be pro-Snyderverse, as well as trying to keep Keaton and Calle along for the ride, were executives Michael De Luca and Pam Abdy. They were temporarily in charge of DC Studios before Gunn and Safran were formally announced, and they were responsible for greenlighting The Flash's second reshot ending that got scrapped - the one that had Barry meeting Keaton's Bruce Wayne and Calle's Supergirl together with Cavill's Clark Kent and Gadot's Diana, and Batfleck lost in another timeline asking for Barry's help in a post-credit scene. De Luca and Abdy definitely must've been instrumental to grant Cavill's cameo in Black Adam, and getting Affleck to appear in Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom (whose scene/s have now been scrapped).
To add further insult to injury, THR reported that De Luca and Abdy were also reportedly trying to get the Justice League cast to reunite for at least one more movie before those dickheads Gunn and Safran sabotaged everything.
It should be stated that De Luca and Abdy were always intended to be in charge of the WB Pictures division and they were only in charge of DC for the interim. It was reported the only reason Gunn and Safran got the jobs was because that douchebag Zaslav couldn't convince anyone else to take them.
As you can see, it appears De Luca and Abdy were trying to keep many people happy, and not burn bridges with the Keaton camp and the Snyderverse actors camp. However, I do question their wisdom in not signing Cavill up for a contract that would've made it difficult for Gunn and Safran to oust him from the Superman role.
Quote from: The Joker on Sat, 5 Aug 2023, 20:20Honestly, if a Wonder Woman 3 happens with Gal, I'll check it out. I like her in the part, and since I don't have a whole lot of faith in Gunn or his vision going forward, it could be regulated as a elseworlds and that's perfectly acceptable. WW2017 and WW1984 are fairly self contained films, so there's really no need to lean onto Gunn's precarious shared universe ideas to round out a Gadot Wonder Woman Trilogy. If that actually happens.
I personally wouldn't hold my breath if I were you. Gunn's ego over his undeserved GOTG success will make him double down on the rubbish comedic route that has plagued Wonder Woman ever since 1984, and we all know Warners don't learn from the error of their ways. Gadot's cameos couldn't save Shazam or Flash, but I still expect those WB disphits to try and shove her in a shared universe again. Of course, there is always a good chance that Gadot may be forced to retract her announcement and get humiliated like Cavill did.
As I said, if WB's investors are willing to lose even more money into Gunn's nonsense, they deserve to go under too.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sun, 6 Aug 2023, 01:03As it was stated numerous times on this forum, the other executives who appeared to be pro-Snyderverse, as well as trying to keep Keaton and Calle along for the ride, were executives Michael De Luca and Pam Abdy. They were temporarily in charge of DC Studios before Gunn and Safran were formally announced, and they were responsible for greenlighting The Flash's second reshot ending that got scrapped - the one that had Barry meeting Keaton's Bruce Wayne and Calle's Supergirl together with Cavill's Clark Kent and Gadot's Diana, and Batfleck lost in another timeline asking for Barry's help in a post-credit scene. De Luca and Abdy definitely must've been instrumental to grant Cavill's cameo in Black Adam, and getting Affleck to appear in Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom (whose scene/s have now been scrapped).
Alright. Appreciate the in-depth response.
QuoteTo add further insult to injury, THR reported that De Luca and Abdy were also reportedly trying to get the Justice League cast to reunite for at least one more movie before those dickheads Gunn and Safran sabotaged everything.
It should be stated that De Luca and Abdy were always intended to be in charge of the WB Pictures division and they were only in charge of DC for the interim. It was reported the only reason Gunn and Safran got the jobs was because that douchebag Zaslav couldn't convince anyone else to take them.
I remember Todd Phillips being a notable name that turned down the job. Apparently there were many others as well. Are there any other big names that you can recall turned down the offer as well, TLF?
QuoteAs you can see, it appears De Luca and Abdy were trying to keep many people happy, and not burn bridges with the Keaton camp and the Snyderverse actors camp. However, I do question their wisdom in not signing Cavill up for a contract that would've made it difficult for Gunn and Safran to oust him from the Superman role.
That was a indecisive arrangement that proved to be unfavorable for sure, though it sounds like De Luca and Abdy might've genuinely had the best intentions in mind when negotiating Cavill's return as Superman. Attempting to get a solid foundation to build upon, only to get circumvented is
classic Warner Bros.
QuoteI personally wouldn't hold my breath if I were you. Gunn's ego over his undeserved GOTG success will make him double down on the rubbish comedic route that has plagued Wonder Woman ever since 1984, and we all know Warners don't learn from the error of their ways. Gadot's cameos couldn't save Shazam or Flash, but I still expect those WB disphits to try and shove her in a shared universe again. Of course, there is always a good chance that Gadot may be forced to retract her announcement and get humiliated like Cavill did.
Oh, I'm not in any way convinced a Gadot Wonder Woman Trilogy is going to happen. With a studio like WB, it's best not to invest too much on anything cause plans and directions can and often do change just like the wind. That's why I choose words like "precarious", "wavering", "shifting", "indecisive" ect when describing anything relating to long-term planning where the DCEU is concerned.
Viewing any DCEU news thru a rather detached POV can be a asset.
As an aside, I personally don't think cameos are honestly indicative of anything. For instance, I've heard the goofball argument that, "If people REALLY wanted Henry Cavill back as Superman, they would have purchased a ticket for Black Adam!" Um, no. That doesn't work for me brother. With inflationmania continually running wild (and other factors to say the least), it's already quite evident that disposable income isn't nearly what it once was for a lot of people, and the argument that a 1-2 minute cameo in a whatever movie is somehow signifying of interest because they didn't run out a buy a ticket comes across as a rather inane argument.
Speaking as someone who likes Cavill as Superman, and Gadot as Wonder Woman, I can't say I went and bought a ticket for "Black Adam" or "Shazam 2" just for their cameos despite being well aware of them appearing in the films. To sit thru a 2 hour movie I barely have interest in (and pretty much none with Shazam 2) for a 1-2 minute scene (and I think Henry's was less than that in BA)? Haha! Now, if this was more of a "Spider-Man No Way Home" situation where Cavill/Gadot had plenty of screen time, that's a entirely different story. 1-2 minutes? Nah. I can wait for Blu Ray/4K on that. After all, it's just a cameo.
QuoteAs I said, if WB's investors are willing to lose even more money into Gunn's nonsense, they deserve to go under too.
A lot is riding on Gunn's "Superman Legacy". It might be successful. It might not. I don't personally believe future DC films are going to be anything other than the crap shoot they have already been for years now.
Quote from: The Joker on Sun, 6 Aug 2023, 07:51I remember Todd Phillips being a notable name that turned down the job. Apparently there were many others as well. Are there any other big names that you can recall turned down the offer as well, TLF?
I remember hearing a rumour that they approached Mr. MCU himself, Kevin Feige. Aside from that, I don't know any other director or producer who was approached. But I do remember one of the executives who wanted the role was attached to produce Justice League Mortal back in the 2000s. I'm not enthused about that guy though, because he apparently went along with some Rolling Stone troll who dismissed the Snyderverse fandom as being controlled by bots during an interview.
QuoteViewing any DCEU news thru a rather detached POV can be a asset.
Without a doubt. Believe it or not, I stopped caring what happened to DC ever since Gunn was appointed. Squandering Keaton's comeback made was also another factor that was unforgivable, but nowhere near as shocking as hiring that man Gunn. I couldn't get his obscene comment history and association with sordid people out of my mind, so if there's a silver lining to this, I'm glad Keaton, Affleck, and Cavill won't have anything to do with him. If Momoa and Gadot want to sell out to be with that kind of company, that's not my problem.
QuoteAs an aside, I personally don't think cameos are honestly indicative of anything. For instance, I've heard the goofball argument that, "If people REALLY wanted Henry Cavill back as Superman, they would have purchased a ticket for Black Adam!" Um, no. That doesn't work for me brother. With inflationmania continually running wild (and other factors to say the least), it's already quite evident that disposable income isn't nearly what it once was for a lot of people, and the argument that a 1-2 minute cameo in a whatever movie is somehow signifying of interest because they didn't run out a buy a ticket comes across as a rather inane argument.
Speaking as someone who likes Cavill as Superman, and Gadot as Wonder Woman, I can't say I went and bought a ticket for "Black Adam" or "Shazam 2" just for their cameos despite being well aware of them appearing in the films. To sit thru a 2 hour movie I barely have interest in (and pretty much none with Shazam 2) for a 1-2 minute scene (and I think Henry's was less than that in BA)? Haha! Now, if this was more of a "Spider-Man No Way Home" situation where Cavill/Gadot had plenty of screen time, that's a entirely different story. 1-2 minutes? Nah. I can wait for Blu Ray/4K on that. After all, it's just a cameo.
Yeah, I must admit, you've raised an excellent point. Besides, it's rather dishonest to pin all the hopes on Cavill's Superman future on a ten-second cameo for a film that was advertised as the start of a "Black Adam Cinematic Universe" by the Rock himself, along with the "hierarchy in the DC universe is about to change" attitude. In terms of marketing, Rock's ego was his own worst enemy. I think if he had distanced himself from Emmerich and Hamada's agenda and flat-out said, "Black Adam has to share the same world as the Justice League, and that means getting Henry Cavill, Ben Affleck and Gal Gadot back" then
maybe his film would've had a better chance.
But what bothers me is the arrogance of WBD if they think keeping Gadot and Momoa around is supposed to be extending some sort of olive branch to the aggrieved fans. If anything, they're just proving the skeptics right about what a farce this reboot is shaping up to be.
QuoteA lot is riding on Gunn's "Superman Legacy". It might be successful. It might not. I don't personally believe future DC films are going to be anything other than the crap shoot they have already been for years now.
If WBD cares about their finances, which I'm not convinced they do going by their insane decision-making, I'd put everything on hold indefinitely. If the numbers haven't been responding well to DC's comedic copycatting of the MCU for the last four years, then what makes them think Gunn repeating that tired formula for Superman is going to be any different?
It appears WBD and DC Studios are DENYING there is a plan to do another Wonder Woman with Gal Gadot:
https://variety.com/2023/film/news/gal-gadot-wonder-woman-3-not-in-development-1235693545/
This is despite Gal saying this:
Quote"I was invited to a meeting with James Gunn and Peter Safran," Gadot said, "and what they told me, and I'm quoting: 'You're in the best hands. We're going to develop Wonder Woman 3 with you. [We] love you as Wonder Woman— you've got nothing to worry about.' So time will tell."
Someone is lying, and it's not Gal.
Quote from: The Laughing Fish on Sat, 12 Aug 2023, 04:01It appears WBD and DC Studios are DENYING there is a plan to do another Wonder Woman with Gal Gadot:
https://variety.com/2023/film/news/gal-gadot-wonder-woman-3-not-in-development-1235693545/
This is despite Gal saying this:
Quote"I was invited to a meeting with James Gunn and Peter Safran," Gadot said, "and what they told me, and I'm quoting: 'You're in the best hands. We're going to develop Wonder Woman 3 with you. [We] love you as Wonder Woman— you've got nothing to worry about.' So time will tell."
Someone is lying, and it's not Gal.
Very suspicious that Gunn has still not addressed anything about Gadot's comments, but took the time to deny a rumour about Affleck making a voice cameo in Blue Beetle.
https://youtu.be/l81JF9kyBY8?t=215
It seems to me Gunn picks easy targets to debunk, but lacks the courage to address any conflicting statements made by the likes of Gadot and Affleck. And his lies are growing: first he says Cavill was too old to play Superman in his movie, but now he's saying his movie is not about a young Superman.
More people need to wake up and realise this man is taking advantage of a rudderless ship to put more money in his pocket. Giving himself a TV show and a movie to write and/or direct when he's already a CEO, keeping his favourite actors (such as his wife) in the same roles...it's all a blatant conflict of interest.
Nice piece of WW2017 artwork.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GIbUH7AXwAEoycy?format=jpg&name=large)
Patty Jenkins said this the other day:
QuoteJenkins said on the "Talking Pictures" podcast that her experience with "Wonder Woman" is over "for the time being, easily forever." She directed both "Wonder Woman" and "Wonder Woman 1984," making her one of the most prominent female directors in Hollywood.
"They aren't interested in doing any 'Wonder Woman' for the time being," Jenkins said. "It's not an easy task, with what's going on with DC. James Gunn and Peter Safran have to follow their own heart into their own plans. I don't know what they are planning on doing or why, so I have sympathy for what a big job it is and they have to follow their heart and do what they've got planned."
https://variety.com/2024/film/news/patty-jenkins-rogue-squadron-star-wars-wonder-woman-3-canceled-1235941798/
She tried to keep things professional, but I don't buy her sincerity when she sounds puzzled over Gunn and Safran's motives. As for no plans on doing Wonder Woman for the time being, that would reaffirm what I was saying before about Gunn and Safran lying to Gal Gadot about doing another film with her. I highly doubt their DCU will get very far, but if they were to produce WW, I don't see them keeping Gadot.
It's such a shame that for all the praise the first WW film got and how it was described - and weaponised - as the supposedly only good DCEU film compared to others in such a fledgling franchise, not many of these people are too bothered about what's going on with the character on film right now. And that's a damn shame, because WW2017 is a good film and the character - like other DC characters - deserves better than these fickle fans.